Just wait until he somehow rivals platinum crimson frieza 14 yrars from now after 16 years of disapperance in the manga and 100 years of disappearance in the anime, by the way, the goated Majin Buu one shots the whole verse so you should put some respect on his name
nah i mean years of disapperance in real life, last tme we saw the goat was like 2 years ago (?) during moro arc, we will see him again in 14 years from now fighting platinum crimson frieza, the 100 years thing is hyperbole of how long the anime hasnt been airing
During the Buu Saga he was probably like SSJ3 Vegito level. But he couldn't sense ki, so he lacked the confidence to take on Fat Buu or the means to find the main cast.
Not a confidence issue, he probably just didn't care. He is absolutely the type to see that and go "I'm sure those guys can handle it. I have a park to range."
Ssgss Vegeta is well past that level, and he also died when the planet blew up in resurrection f. At least, that's what Beerus thought. So 17 could've been pretty strong and still died in earth's explosion.
That's not really true. 17 couldn't have been targeted by the Human Extinction Attack because he couldn't be sensed by Buu. And nothing suggests 17 doesn't need oxygen to survive like a Saiyan- they're cyborgs, after all. Both of them are human enough to have kids just fine.
Android 17 basically just realized the actual ramifications of Gero giving him an “Unlimited power supply” that also happens to be conditionally compatible with the Ki system, and therefore letting him use said UNLIMITED power to blitz whatever he wanted, so long as he actually trained it instead of just sleeping in a pod, killing civilians, and stealing cars like in the Cell Saga
I mean moreso the Future variants for that, since they basically did nothing but wreak havoc and murder random people for like 17 years and had no strength increase, funnily enough still being weaker than the Present day Androids
Basically A17 is now SSB Goku level in the anime and SSJ3 Goku level in the manga, all of this while doing nothing but being a park ranger basically, dude went from being 1st form cell victim to above Golden Frieza by fighting poachers
Basically unless your name is Tien you get a free boost for not doing shit in DBS, literally everyone gets it and it's also why i wasn't really that invested in DBS (alongside other things like bland looking new forms, constant fanservice and retcons) because it gets to a point man...
Yeah, I get that they wanted to have some of the other characters be more relevant, but there are better ways of going about it.
Like, if instead of Goku keeping SSG or absorbing it into his base it was a one-time thing, that would solve a lot of problems. They can still have god ki be a thing if they want a bit of a powerup, and Super Saiyan Blue could be something like using Super Saiyan but compressed to only affect the more potent god ki, or done via usage of god ki. This would solve several problems. It makes Beerus's power more consistent and substantial, rather than him somehow having a good fight against someone thousands of times weaker than him. It gives Goku a proper motivation to get stronger, since he doesn't like the process of the ritual for SSG, and he'd probably have a desire to get to that level by his own effort if not surpass it. And crucially speaking for this topic, it makes the powerscale of DBS as a whole less ridiculous.
While Frieza training for four months and surpassing SSG is utterly ridiculous, considering that his Namek saga level of strength was his natural without any training strength, and that people tend to grow much faster in the first stages of learning something compared to later on, it makes a bit more sense for him to get something like a few dozen times stronger, and then combined with a form that's naturally superior to base SSJ just like his base is naturally superior to a Saiyan's base be stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. It's still ridiculous, but only like a single order of magnitude more ridiculous than previous jumps in strengths by characters. Also, if you wanted another explanation, you could have the events of BoG, that is the ripples that were sent across the universe, carry a bit of god ki in them, and thus help jumpstart some people in the universe on how to form and use it.
And for the other Z fighters, while them being Goku level is extreme, being somewhat equivalent to base Goku during the Buu saga isn't all that extreme, so long as you take some of the more generous estimates of their strength through Z. Tien especially, since there's a bit more going for him being equal to if not superior to Frieza in the Cell Saga. Mainly, the two or so quotes that heavily imply that the people who gathered to fight the androids should at least be powerful enough to make a difference against Mecha Frieza, alongside Tien managing to stall Semi-perfect Cell for a substantial period of time. Going by the idea of "he'll manage to be comparable to the villain of the last saga by the time the next one has come" which did also happen with Raditz, it wouldn't be too absurd for him to be somewhat relative to even someone like Fat Buu sometime in DBS. And with the hypothetical changes that result in there being no SSG absurd power creep, that could be enough to feasibly be useful.
It would also help explain why the universe doesn't start to shake every time someone who's on the level of Goku but isn't doing what he did in BoG is fighting.
It's not "unless you are tien" humans are naturally weaker, all of them may still be Cell level, Android 17 even in dbz was stronger than ssj goku and equal to kami fused Piccolo, Androids like saiyans can tap into bigger powers
You would have an argument if Krillin and Roshi didn't exist, but they do and they both got the big power wank ESPECIALLY Roshi, who literally stole Tien's recruitment episode halfway through
Compare the treatment Tien got compared to Roshi or Krillin, not to mention the absolutely disgusting treatment he received in the ToP where he turned into a moron running in a straight line in the open with his clones, or how his moveset is literally designed to dominate in a setting like the ToP (breakable arena, no flying) with his big iconic move that lets him push back foes far stronger than him as we've seen with Cell who couldn't do anything despite being able to fly and being massively stronger than Tien
You would have an argument if Krillin and Roshi didn't exist, but they do and they both got the big power wank ESPECIALLY Roshi, who literally stole Tien's recruitment episode halfway through
First of all it wasn't Tien's recruitment episode, it was Roshi & Tien recruitment episode
secondly, all roshi did was get into the same power as another human and he still needed his buff technique and the spell to do that
if you didn't like Tien's performance in dbs that's fair, but that has nothing to do with my point, humans are still extremely weak compared to androids and saiyans
Btw, all tien did to hold cell was attacking him by surprise and holding him for a few seconds, against buu he only distracted him, no big deal
Who would win?
Frieza if he did one more push up?
Android 17 if he fought one more regular human poacher with a gun?
Farmer with a shotgun clears
17 would no-dif fridge-boy any day,
It would be close, but 17 would ultimately win due to him being one-third of Perfect Cell, meaning he's one-third of perfection.
He trained with the cell jr
Just wait until he somehow rivals platinum crimson frieza 14 yrars from now after 16 years of disapperance in the manga and 100 years of disappearance in the anime, by the way, the goated Majin Buu one shots the whole verse so you should put some respect on his name
Would that be a total of 116 years of disappearance from the manga? Or are you including the first 16 years of disappearance within the 100 years?
nah i mean years of disapperance in real life, last tme we saw the goat was like 2 years ago (?) during moro arc, we will see him again in 14 years from now fighting platinum crimson frieza, the 100 years thing is hyperbole of how long the anime hasnt been airing
If I was Chichi I would use this as an excuse to get Goku to focus more on work
17 works as a park ranger and rangered the shit out of that park
imagine how strong Goku would get if he farmed the shit out of the farm
HelloOriginal dragon ball even even set the president of doing work to get stronger
Could your average laborer break Freeza like a kit kat?
Hello Mr President
presidential typo
Cell on his way to kill civilians after beating the Z-fighters and getting folded by a guy with 15 years of experience as a construction worker
Farmer Goku... with a shotgun
During the Buu Saga he was probably like SSJ3 Vegito level. But he couldn't sense ki, so he lacked the confidence to take on Fat Buu or the means to find the main cast.
Not a confidence issue, he probably just didn't care. He is absolutely the type to see that and go "I'm sure those guys can handle it. I have a park to range."
He got killed by either the exploding planet or human extinction attack so he was no where near that power level.
There's no proof that he died because notoriously nobody can sense his ki. If fucking Tien could survive the human extinction attack then so can 17.
Ssgss Vegeta is well past that level, and he also died when the planet blew up in resurrection f. At least, that's what Beerus thought. So 17 could've been pretty strong and still died in earth's explosion.
That's not really true. 17 couldn't have been targeted by the Human Extinction Attack because he couldn't be sensed by Buu. And nothing suggests 17 doesn't need oxygen to survive like a Saiyan- they're cyborgs, after all. Both of them are human enough to have kids just fine.
THATS WHY HE’S THE GOAT
Don’t forget Master roshi
EVIL CONTAINMENT WAVE
Android 17 basically just realized the actual ramifications of Gero giving him an “Unlimited power supply” that also happens to be conditionally compatible with the Ki system, and therefore letting him use said UNLIMITED power to blitz whatever he wanted, so long as he actually trained it instead of just sleeping in a pod, killing civilians, and stealing cars like in the Cell Saga
Didn't the present day Androids not actually kill anyone in the Cell Saga, or was that Abridged only.
I mean moreso the Future variants for that, since they basically did nothing but wreak havoc and murder random people for like 17 years and had no strength increase, funnily enough still being weaker than the Present day Androids
The Z fighter power levels if Raditz never came to earth:
Those poachers ain’t no joke
But could they beat goku?
Trains like blackbeard off-screen
They don't know about that time Goten tripped and accidentally did a pushup trying to get up, making him Whis tier.
Gohan would find a way to be stronger, but also Super 17 makes a lot of sense now.
This is how dumb DBS is
Nobody can beat me when I'm 17 (Super)
At least the manga makes him SSJ3 level
It's still incredibly braindead even if to a lesser degree
This is why explicit power levels were a good thing, they forced the writers to give a fuck about being halfway consistent
Nah, this just creates stuff like goku getting a randomic 33x zenkai boost.
that was terrible but it makes super power scaling look well-thought out by comparison. Things were better back when power levels were explicit
Android 18 is missing her and 17 are roughly equal in strength
yes but uh, she's a woman and that's a big no-no
In retrospect, it may just be that post namek power levels are wayyyyy flatter than we think, so it was never that hard for people to catch up.
A bit like Piccolo getting massacred by Nappa despite a pitiful 7:8 power gap.
That would also work if the Z warriors never went to namek
I don’t get this joke
I haven’t gotten far enough into Super for him to come back yet
Basically A17 is now SSB Goku level in the anime and SSJ3 Goku level in the manga, all of this while doing nothing but being a park ranger basically, dude went from being 1st form cell victim to above Golden Frieza by fighting poachers
He's on the same level as Blue in the anime?!
that's so dumb, I love it
I defend it makes sense if you think stuff doesn't really stack. Blue may be something like base x50+God, maybe even less.
Basically unless your name is Tien you get a free boost for not doing shit in DBS, literally everyone gets it and it's also why i wasn't really that invested in DBS (alongside other things like bland looking new forms, constant fanservice and retcons) because it gets to a point man...
Yeah, I get that they wanted to have some of the other characters be more relevant, but there are better ways of going about it.
Like, if instead of Goku keeping SSG or absorbing it into his base it was a one-time thing, that would solve a lot of problems. They can still have god ki be a thing if they want a bit of a powerup, and Super Saiyan Blue could be something like using Super Saiyan but compressed to only affect the more potent god ki, or done via usage of god ki. This would solve several problems. It makes Beerus's power more consistent and substantial, rather than him somehow having a good fight against someone thousands of times weaker than him. It gives Goku a proper motivation to get stronger, since he doesn't like the process of the ritual for SSG, and he'd probably have a desire to get to that level by his own effort if not surpass it. And crucially speaking for this topic, it makes the powerscale of DBS as a whole less ridiculous.
While Frieza training for four months and surpassing SSG is utterly ridiculous, considering that his Namek saga level of strength was his natural without any training strength, and that people tend to grow much faster in the first stages of learning something compared to later on, it makes a bit more sense for him to get something like a few dozen times stronger, and then combined with a form that's naturally superior to base SSJ just like his base is naturally superior to a Saiyan's base be stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. It's still ridiculous, but only like a single order of magnitude more ridiculous than previous jumps in strengths by characters. Also, if you wanted another explanation, you could have the events of BoG, that is the ripples that were sent across the universe, carry a bit of god ki in them, and thus help jumpstart some people in the universe on how to form and use it.
And for the other Z fighters, while them being Goku level is extreme, being somewhat equivalent to base Goku during the Buu saga isn't all that extreme, so long as you take some of the more generous estimates of their strength through Z. Tien especially, since there's a bit more going for him being equal to if not superior to Frieza in the Cell Saga. Mainly, the two or so quotes that heavily imply that the people who gathered to fight the androids should at least be powerful enough to make a difference against Mecha Frieza, alongside Tien managing to stall Semi-perfect Cell for a substantial period of time. Going by the idea of "he'll manage to be comparable to the villain of the last saga by the time the next one has come" which did also happen with Raditz, it wouldn't be too absurd for him to be somewhat relative to even someone like Fat Buu sometime in DBS. And with the hypothetical changes that result in there being no SSG absurd power creep, that could be enough to feasibly be useful.
It would also help explain why the universe doesn't start to shake every time someone who's on the level of Goku but isn't doing what he did in BoG is fighting.
It's not "unless you are tien" humans are naturally weaker, all of them may still be Cell level, Android 17 even in dbz was stronger than ssj goku and equal to kami fused Piccolo, Androids like saiyans can tap into bigger powers
You would have an argument if Krillin and Roshi didn't exist, but they do and they both got the big power wank ESPECIALLY Roshi, who literally stole Tien's recruitment episode halfway through
Compare the treatment Tien got compared to Roshi or Krillin, not to mention the absolutely disgusting treatment he received in the ToP where he turned into a moron running in a straight line in the open with his clones, or how his moveset is literally designed to dominate in a setting like the ToP (breakable arena, no flying) with his big iconic move that lets him push back foes far stronger than him as we've seen with Cell who couldn't do anything despite being able to fly and being massively stronger than Tien
First of all it wasn't Tien's recruitment episode, it was Roshi & Tien recruitment episode
secondly, all roshi did was get into the same power as another human and he still needed his buff technique and the spell to do that
if you didn't like Tien's performance in dbs that's fair, but that has nothing to do with my point, humans are still extremely weak compared to androids and saiyans
Btw, all tien did to hold cell was attacking him by surprise and holding him for a few seconds, against buu he only distracted him, no big deal
If we’re only talking about the anime then you’re right, but Roshi fights Jiren in the manga, and that’s obviously completely ridiculous
Roshi doesn't fight Jiren in the manga, he dodges Jiren, while literally teaching goku the basics of ultra instinct