Disclaimer!:No Jaguars and Grizzlies aren’t extinct as a whole but these Population of Jaguars and this Subspecies of Grizzly being the topic at hand are indeed extinct.
Jaguars hands down are #1 on the list if you’d ask what my favorite animal is #2 would be the American Alligator lol, but these cats ever since I learned about them always seemed shrouded in mystery, like that one book in the corner of the shelf that nobody talked about but had so much behind, so many amazing things to discover especially since most people think they have them figured out.
Even today with more advanced technology and more extensive research Jaguars are still showing us new behaviors never seen before. Next to the Snow Leopard they are some of the most elusive and least understood Big Cats on the planet and for that they captivated my interest.
What People probably didn’t know is that once upon a time besides Mexico, the state of California would have been home to two of one of North Americas dominant predators since the extinction of the Pleistocene Megafauna, Jaguars and Grizzly Bears
Putting Jaguars and Grizzlies in the same sentence especially during the early 21st century would have been to most nothing more then a unrealistic animal match up between 2 Apex Predators conjured up im the mind of a middle schooler, but as time progressed we not only know that it wasn’t far fetched it actually happened.
Post 1800s both Jaguars and the now extinct California Grizzly Bear would have shared the vast expanses of the State together. This place would have been a real life African Serengeti with herds of Elk, Deer, Feral Horses and Bison roaming around along with Bighorn Sheep and Pronghorn. Steller Sea Lions, Seals, and Sea Otters dotted the coastline while Whales and Dolphins were just off shore. Along with Brown Bears and Jaguars, Wolves, Coyotes, Black Bears, Cougars, Wolverines and Bobcats would have called Cali home. This place would have been almost as rich as the coast of Alaska or Canada.
Grizzlies are known for their coastal diet and Jaguars have been known to take Sea Turtles and River Dolphins. I could definitely have seen both animals capitalizing off of Pinnipeds and Whale carcasses that wash up on shore.
With plenty of resources to utilize both predators could have taken advantage and what a sight this would have been as i’m sure at some point we would have had Jaguars encountering Grizzlies.
The thought of how these two animals would have treated each other always crossed my mind and is one of the reasons why I love Jaguars so much, they have a long relatively understudied history with a lot of creatures people never knew they encountered, like Elk and Bison for example two animals they possibly may still brush shoulders with today but back then may have made up a majority of their diet.
Jaguar-Bovid relationships (something Ive posted about in the past) is a dynamic only just now being spoken on with Jaguars historically living alongside and pretty likely preying on Bison and Jaguars present day relationship with Water Buffalo who where introduced to South America in the 19th century and since then numbers have seen an explosion.
California Grizzlies were no push overs, the largest predators in the state at that time, with estimates ranging up to 9ft tall vertically and 800lbs or so easily pushing them in to Alaskan Brown range, despite their documented omnivorous diet. Most would say Grizzlies easily dominate over Jaguars and in a sense you’d wouldn’t be wrong assuming this, with their superior near half ton stature Grizzlies would have definitely controlled their environment once fully grown. The thing is there isn’t really any data at least from what I’ve seen on how big North American Jaguars would have got during the Holocene.
As most know Jaguars depending on human interference and prey availability differ substantially in size for example, Jaguars in certain regions of the Amazon with low densities of large fauna tend to be smaller vs Jaguars in the Pantanal, Venezuela or Argentina with higher densities of large fauna are huge with some cracking 148kgs or just shy of 350lbs approaching some modest male Lions and Tigers in size. With huge Elk and Bison that would have been around aswell as Deer, Bighorn and Pronghorn, Jaguars would have had more than enough large game to support huge sized cats. Jaguars are already known for preying on Bears and their large robust almost Bears like morphology -no pun intended, would have allowed them to wrestle large heavy game with ease.
And 1500lbs of bite force, not even measured in the largest bodied Jaguar I believe is truly no joke.
If Jaguars in California during the 1700s were anywhere near the size of the huge specimens in certain parts of South America, with their well known incredible power, Bear hunting prowess and attitude very reminiscent of their cousin the Tiger, even Grizzlies back then would have had to be weary of them.
An account I quoted from an article on Jaguars in North America when their range was way larger sited this
“John James Audubon gives an account of Texas Rangers happening upon a jaguar feeding on a mustang, ‘surrounded by eight or ten hungry wolves, which dared not interfere or approach too near.”
If this is true and a large number of Wolves, which are already known for their tenacity to challenge even large threats in great numbers, were reluctant to approach the Jaguar and merely size it up. Well that just shows the incredible Tiger like effect these Cats had on their environment.
Both Grizzlies and Jaguars are awesome animals and best believe Jaguars would have had to been very careful dealing with the likes of a Grizzly Bear whose power and strength needs no introduction as many know of it.
California Grizzlies were likely no different though neither unfortunately had enough to protect them from Man, i’m sure many knew to fear these large Brown Bears. With massive robust forelimbs and very similar bite strength Grizzlies themselves would have been the few that Jaguars would have to be weary of, very similar to Eastern Siberian Brown Bears and Amur Tigers. To think interactions like this would have happened in Cali just shy of about 300 or so years ago is crazy.
Regardless what a place the state would have been before Europeans could really have their inevitable effect on the states and its wildlife.
You can add crocodiles to that list too. The gulf of California used to be home to a huge population of American Crocodiles.
Yup, Crocs aswell Thank you! A competitive ecosystem for sure
A bit tragic that the main grizzlies you’ll see today in California (besides in zoos) are on th
/r/redditsniper
Are you still... among us?
"on th" ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
The grizzlies ate him so that he didn't give away their location
I thoroughly enjoyed reading this. The jaguar is also my favorite animal (then cephalopods, I can't choose just one).
Not to stray from the topic but I'd love to hear why the gator is your second favorite.
I appreciate it Thank you! Cephalopods have such amazing abilities coupled with the fact that they are extremely intelligent, so im not surprised at all that would be a favorite.
In terms of why American Alligators are my second, I have a thing for “underrated animals”, creatures that people don’t know too much about or often become a shadow of their much more well known relatives especially in Media. So with the Jaguar, Lions, Tigers and even Leopards get a lot more attention than they do even documentary wise and same with Crocodiles getting more attention than Alligators, I’m actually pretty sure there are way more documentaries out on Crocs than Gators.
It’s a sense of mystery and curiosity that draws me in to both animals. People know about Jaguars and Alligators and may even make it out like we know alot about them when we really don’t. Their Biology and History, like how alot of people don’t know Jaguars distribution ranged way farther into North America at then whats portrayed all the way to southern Canada or the Jaguar populations of the Andes Mountains and Bolivia receiving little attention vs the Jaguars of the Amazon and Pantanal that are well known.
How data on Alligators is heavy in Florida but how Alligators in Louisiana, Texas, even the Carolinas where during winter they’ve literally been seen hibernating under frozen lakes are very under studied.
And to end it off Alligators seem to always be presented as “inferior” to Crocodiles when that is very much not the case size and aggression wise. For one their size, People think Alligators are on the small side, rather” modest” sized animals when in reality thats all because of human beings, 13ft is nowhere near as big as they get, 15,16ft individuals is more accurate for their “true” size. We bottlenecked their the genes that produced huge specimens by consistently killing the larger ones off leaving us with the smaller 4 meter Gators we see today.
And dont get me started on how big they used to get prior to the 20th and 19th century, whether folks want to believe the reported 19ft specimen is up to them but we have skin and proof that 17, 18ft Gators once lurked in North America. Given their mass and length with the ones today that easily put them up there with Saltwater and Nile Crocodiles. Two Aggression, Alligators are seen as more timid then Crocs when even Locals a tell you Gators in certain other states like Louisiana or Mississippi are actually a bit more aggressive towards people vs Florida. The whole Southeastern US is full of Gators so the temperament of one states population cannot sum up the behavior of the species elsewhere let alone as a whole. Even American Crocs, a species also said to be less aggressive than the their more well known relatives are more aggressive in South America than the ones of southern Florida. I have even seen very large Gators driving equally large American Crocs away when they decide they really wanna set their focus on something, they can be just as short tempered as their cousin. The series that use to air “Gator Boys” even had a episode where the team went to Mississippi and mentioned how much more aggressive Gators were there compared to the sunshine state. I feel both got used to people which could still be dangerous but it finalizes the point.
Im sorry if this response is really long but yeah lol thats my reason. Hope that helped :)
Wow you rock for this response. I look forward to reading it later when I'm home. I'll let you know my thoughts!
Much obliged 🤝
The post itself was very interesting but this is exactly why I was perhaps more interested in your answer. Most people would probably "rank" Crocs over gators. I thought perhaps with Jaguar and gators being your favorites, you liked the underappreciated species.
There is an argument to be made that Crocodiles are superior, from an evolutionary standpoint. Bigger, stronger bite force, they can tolerate salt water which allowed them to expand globally, etc. But like you said, the largest Alligators were all hunted causing a genetic bottleneck. Their intolerance to salt water means they were confined to the Americas, so the larger individuals were not only being killed more readily, but that created a huge selection pressure towards 'small' genes. Meanwhile, the crocs were just hanging out in the ocean getting yoked lol.
Alligators do have them beat with the brumation though. That is such a cool adaption to see in reptiles.
As for the big cats, the Jaguar is the real king of the jungle. Objectively, they just are. I don't have to tell you though haha. And despite the fact the Jaguar has been my favorite animal for years, I still learned some really cool stuff from your post. Thanks stranger.
Of course you are very welcome and thank you for the question I did very much enjoy your feedback. I agree the saltwater tolerance that Crocs had gave them the edge and the ability to spread all over and avoid the wrath Humans at least in America. It does make me wonder how the Chinese Alligator came to be though.
I will say I have seen Gators in the ocean aswell as many reports of them being out at sea. Not saying they were all healthy nor that they were as tolerant but interestingly enough Gators can actually last in saltwater to a certain degree just not as much or for as long as Crocodiles.
I feel the complete opposite. Everybody in the US calls everything an alligator, regardless of what it actually is. There are far more studies done on American alligators, they star in more American-produced documentaries, and they have a larger population than any other species of crocodilian.
I disagree while I do agree that people call things Alligators more often than not, it’s the reason I stated “People know about Alligators and Jaguars”. Im aware studies are done but compared to Saltwater and Nile Crocs, Gators are way less represented documentary wise, just look up Gator documentaries and see how many pop up. Now compared to American Crocs or Orinoco Crocs for sure but compared to their more “famous” cousins they aren’t as heavily portrayed hence the reason for the statement.
The jaguar in North America I’ve always found a really interesting case. We know in the Pleistocene it ranged as far north as Pennsylvania and Washington State based off fossil evidence, but it is probably safe to assume its range extended up to the Laurentide Ice Sheet.
At the beginning of the Holocene it went extinct in North America (as did the cougar) and both species recolonized from South America afterwards. However, while the cougar went on to reclaim all its former territory, the jaguar seemed restricted to what is now the southwest states…. I know there are some accounts and records that suggest it may have had a presence in places like Georgia and the Carolinas and even an account from NY and PA as well, but it certainly didn’t seem “present” in the same way other species well known from the areas were, not in any significant numbers.
So the real question is why did the jaguar not recolonize the entirety of the lower 48 states or even southern Canada, which you’d assume it would based off of its Pleistocene range, especially in an ecosystem where the American lion, Smilodon, and Homotherium were now gone, leaving the jaguar as the top cat. You’d think in an ecosystem with that void open that jaguars would have taken advantage of this. We know jaguars extended into California as you’ve pointed out, as well as Texas and Louisiana in the east. You’d think once they hit more “lush” habitat compared to the more arid regions in the southwest they would have gone right up the Pacific Coast to the PNW and right along the Gulf Coast and up the Appalachians…
Perhaps in colder climates with limited prey diversity compared to the Pleistocene the jaguar and cougar compete more heavily and the jaguar, for whatever reason, loses out in that context? Was it possibly that first nations people kept the jaguar from pushing further north? Or is there some other factor we just aren’t considering? Honestly I think this is an interesting area of research that simply isn’t being looked into.
Love the responses and questions! This is surely an interesting thought, my honest opinion it had less to do with prey and climate and more so people. Jaguars with their beautiful coat, predatory nature and large size was not only a Trophy and Money in peoples eyes but simply also a threat, a big threat, an even bigger threat then Pumas at least to early settlers.
Even though I’ve seen next to 0 people talk about this topic i’m pretty sure the 100s of years Jaguars co existed along man in North America while people were wiping them out I doubt the Jaguar went out without a fight, infact Im sure at the very least a few times, Jaguars attacked people and they knew first hand it was an animal they probably just couldn’t see themselves living around and took matters into their own hands.
Similar to how the thought of living alongside Grizzlies vs Black Bears even though they are both large carnivores probably sat with them and as a result favored the Black Bear unfortunately for the Brown Bear. It was simply a larger threat and therefore Black Bears were left to still populate the Eastern Us today plus they could adapt. The reason Coyotes are still here when Wolves disappeared, or why Bobcats are still in the northeast while Cougars vanished. Ironically why Cougars are still present in the Western States and Jaguars are gone. Bigger Threat or Larger Reward.
I also say this because Jaguars contrary to most peoples knowledge are very adaptable to the cold and probably lived in areas frequented with snow. Large prey was still available for them in the west with Elk, Mule Deer, Blacktail Deer, and White Deer along with Bison still being around ,although with decreasing numbers, could have been a negative factor so I definitely get you there.
The Eastern coyote is a naturally reintroduced species, and includes soem timber wolf genes, occurring in recent years. i don't think they are considered a separate population yet, but southern California urban coyotes carry a lot of genes form German shepherds and similarly sized dog breeds.
Yes, this would explain this issue if jaguars recolonized eastern North America post European colonization. It doesn’t explain though the jaguar’s lack of presence post-Pleistocene/Holocene extinction event when the species recolonized North America from the South. They had a solid 13,000 years ago take the role of apex predator in North America for thousands of years prior to Europeans showing up with fire arms. You’d think with the larger feline competition now out of the way and the fact jaguars seems to have been able to dominate the most significant competition based on the one apparent record of interaction between them (wolves), jaguars would’ve been able to capitalize on elk, bison, and even moose and caribou if they ranged far enough north. However, the jaguar simply never seemed to do so, at least not in any meaningful way, despite fossil evidence showing jaguars once could be found at these northern latitudes just a few thousand years earlier. It’s honestly pretty puzzling.
So the one thing we have to take into consideration is that Jaguar data about their range throughout North America within the last 300yrs or so is present but relatively shallow. Fossils of Jaguars after they recolonized North America from the South are still relatively fragmented.
How far North are you talking?
Yeah we definitely don’t have a ton of data on the full extent of their historical range in modern times. But, for example, we know Pleistocene jaguars were living as far north as the Mid-Atlantic states but modern jaguars, even if they occasionally ventured that far north as some records suggest they might have on occasion, never had a solid presence their in historical times or else it likely would have been much more well documented by European settlers the same way we know for a fact wolves and cougars were present in the area at the time.
So apparently modern Jaguars were recorded as far as Pennsylvania which is technically depending on the west or east, one to two states below Canada which is pretty far North. It entails there might have been some multiple factors and barriers in the way whether ecological or biological similar to why American Lions probably didn’t range into South America aside from when they. actually evolved.
For one the extinction of the “Giant Jaguar” P.Onca Augusta from the Pleistocene in which you mentioned could played a role. One Jaguar not ranging as far North as another subspecies and therefore avoiding conflict and creating niches. We can say it probably was similar to Bengal and Amur Tigers or various subspecies of Leopards.
Two Pleistocene North American Jaguars depending on who you ask were modern Jaguars P.Onca Onca as P. Onca Augusta validity is still up for debate. Which technically would mean modern Jaguars were already that far North. Humans up further North could have caused an Issue for the cats similar to Wolves being eliminated from Yellowstone obviously before their reintroduction and Pumas in certain parts of Eastern Canada.
We just dont know yet
This Reddit post from years ago is a fascinating read dissecting the predominant historical accounts of Jaguars in California as well as the Northern United States. It’s amazing how recently they were inhabitants of the land.
A case for the Jaguar as a native animal of the United States.
Yup, I am very familiar with these read, definitely one of the reasons I made this post. Just wanted to dive deeper into the California ecosystem and deeper into the relationship between two top predators that people probably forget or just didn’t know existed with each other.
these are regular jaguars, right, not augusta jaguars, I assume (saw one of Bill Burrud's nature shows, a mexican grizzly was hunting and Burrud said the jag might be his victim, but it didn't happen)
Yes, these are regular Jaguars P.Onca onca The Giant North American Jaguar P.Onca Augusta that you speak of despite debates still on its validity went extinct around the end of the Pleistocene 10,000 years ago
Edit: Some cracking 158kg*