If they love eliminations so much, they should have one every week. After every race, the lowest driver in points gets eliminated. No rounds, no resets, no bonuses. Just straight up last in points gets knocked out.
I haven't watched in a decade but "chase to the cup" sounded better. I get why they went to playoff style, trying to keep excitement til the last race, but it never worked for me. Knowing my driver was out with 12 races to go just made me stop caring
That's why this is so frustrating. Playoffs are really a necessary evil in team sports because only two teams play at once. And hell, some soccer leagues don't even have playoffs and do full season standings.
But one of the best parts of racing is that every team races each other every week.
It's gotta be something like a chase format plus an updated points system. Something that's complicated enough to need an entire press conference to explain.
It would be super cool is the Chase didn't have stages at all. Like that would be the "dynamic." Advertisers would still have their guaranteed commercial breaks during the regular season (barf), but the viewing experience would improve when they need to compete with the NFL.
True, but people would be more likely to click over from NFL if the race isn't at commercial break. NASCAR needs to invest in itself and building a larger fan base. One of the reasons F1 has been so successful recently is no commercial breaks.
Yeah we saw the one year they tried doing no stages for the road courses, and seeing one of them go green the whole way make Jim France so sick that he had to changes the rules mid-season to bring stages back before the roval. I'm not sure if it's a demand from the broadcasters or if the Frances just have their heads so far up their asses that they genuinely believe stages are good for the sport.
And honestly, if they’re insistent on it, I’ll be ok with that. At least the Chase didn’t create champions who were outside Top 10 drivers without it. I’d still want a full season format, but that’s gonna still be a hard ask from NASCAR
And while Jimmie and Chad using the summer as on track testing sucked, it was an opportunity they had because of their success. And come to think of it, the current format makes that more valuable, but other then kinda Penske, nobody does that today.
Yeah it's an absolute joke when you know the Daytona 500 winner can basically take a 25 week vacation, but it seems like the bonus points are enough of an incentive for the teams to actually keep trying all year. So I'd definitely expect an updated Chase style system to keep the bomus points from the playoff system, or something similar.
Id honestly be fine with a 16 driver chase, top 12 in points, 4 wild cards, and the same system for playoff points. Make winning the race 50 points instead of 40 and its golden. Gives the larger group for sure, but also hands small teams a way to earn the bonus money a like they can now without disrupting the actual championship battle.
If not full season then this is a fair compromise. Only addition I would add is the top 30 in points requirement for the wild cards. Makes the points in the back matter more too.
I mean, other than the 500 pretty much any team that shows up will make the race anyways so, no?
It does make a difference for the bottom few charter teams that finish sub 25th nearly every week. If you want to hinge your season on just a plate race then thats fine but your week to week shouldn't just be "riding" around so to speak.
I dont disagree, but its still less than the NHL and NBA in comparison. Also if its the wildcard format for 12-16, it allows someone with 4 wins like SVG in.
Comparing the top 16 in Nascar to playoff teams in other professional sports is an apples to oranges comparison. There's a fine line between the wild card seeds and division winners. In Nascar, there's a massive difference between the top 8-10 drivers and 11-16.
You're putting words in my mouth. Typical. Not once did I say they needed to or were going to change it from 16 teams. My point is that in other professional sports, lower seeds are consistently competitive enough to make a run at a championship. That's not the case in Nascar, or in motorsports in general.
I would love to see the points breakdown from the original chase format and a full season of Winston cup. I know it won’t be an exact matchup but if I were to guess majority of the champions in the Chase format would’ve won the season long Winston cup championship as well, outside of Kurt Busch, and probably one or two of Jimmie Johnson’s championships.
The Delay that we have felt between insider knowing what it was, and this announcement, is just the idea that they wanted to sell the new chase to a company for naming rights.
Which I'm extremely surprised they never did with the rounds.
But imo, I'm expecting the chase bank chase for the cup on Monday, with special guests Chase Briscoe, Chase Elliott, and Chase Ford driver.
I doubt it tbh. I think Bianchi, Stern, all the media know what it is but like the San Diego announcement, NASCAR likely gave all that info to them under an agreement to have an embargo on releasing the news. Which I think worked well for San Diego (even though we knew for months it was heavily rumored).
I'm certain they already have it under an embargo. That's how you get full-length stories written about the system posted five minutes after NASCAR's announcement.
The sport kept growing through 2007 even with the Chase though? The eliminations caused issues, but the Chase was widely accepted it just had 2 big issues - stagnant tracks in the final 10, and Jimmie Johnson going on his run.
The sport kept growing through 2007 even with the Chase though?
No, it did not. This is either ignorance or a blatant lie.
Ratings grew in 2004 and 2005 as the sport rode the wave of growth from the late 90s boom and Dale's death - and presumably, some people were enticed by the novelty of what the hell a playoff in auto racing could look like. The decline started in 2006, before Johnson ever won a title, and before the 2008 financial crisis, the other common excuse NASCAR bootlickers like to use. The truth is that the novelty of the Chase format worked exactly twice... and then completely tanked with constant losses for the next six seasons in a row. People gave it two tries, and then rejected it.
And the trend down continued in 2007... Jayski wasn't so kind as to color-code the list for 2007, but scroll down to the blurb below the chart for this gem -
This season’s NASCAR Nextel Cup races — airing on Fox, TNT, ESPN and ABC — are averaging 4.2% of U.S. TV households — down 9% from last year’s average and off 21% from 2005.
If you notice it was a big change for network as well. Went to 2 cable only providers, few more rain delays. For networks that stayed the same some ratings went up from 2005 to 2007, some went down.
It was also a time of big changes in announcers, and I think for the most part most were not taken fondly. There was also the start of the cable cutting push (I was one of them, stopped using cable in 2007 for a long time).
If you notice it was a big change for network as well.
Not from 2005 to 2006, there wasn't.
Went to 2 cable only providers,
There were already 2 cable channels running NASCAR Cup series points races in 2006, 4 on FX and and 8 on TNT. In 2007, that changed to 6 on ESPN and 6 on TNT. The split of network to cable races stayed exactly the same, 24 network, 12 cable.
For networks that stayed the same some ratings went up from 2005 to 2007
Some? Try one. Spring Martinsville on Fox was literally the one and only race that had a better rating in 2007 than 2005. Every other like-for-like comparison was a decline.
Why do you keep saying things that are so easily proven false?
There was also the start of the cable cutting push (I was one of them, stopped using cable in 2007 for a long time).
Using an anecdotal example with a sample size of one to try and claim that cord cutting "push" started in fucking 2007, when less than half the US even had broadband internet but over 80% of the US had cable or satellite, is one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen on this sub. Thank you for the laugh.
Also looking at F1 their decline in started in 2004
What the fuck does Kyle Petty F1 have to do with this?
Trying to point the decline at one thing is disingenuous. Only those with an agenda will do so.
You started off this conversation by pretending that the decline from 2005 to 2007 was actually two years of growth, what agenda were you trying to serve with that blatant lie?
Because NASCAR changed leadership before they could change it again and the current leadership seems to understand the smartest thing they could do is keep a championship format for more than 4 seasons before changing it like Brian was doing
And it just happened to be the worst format that they kept for seasons on end and NASCAR continued to gaslight the fans by saying this is what we actually wanted.
That's frustrating for sure, was pretty obvious (even for those of us that like some sort of reset) that a 1 race final round was a very bad idea. But as the other comment noted they had been changing the format so much they decided they needed to work on other things and let a format simmer for a bit. I think we'll get some good things out of the years of elimination format - drivers going all out for wins, playoff point format, stage points (not the breaks, but the points).
And putting the format on simmer simply let it boil over into the near revolt we saw last year. The primary issue is that the amount of points resets made many of us feel like nothing we were watching mattered because it only set the stage and wasn't a part of the actual show. If we go to the Chase and are back to just one reset its significantly better but many are still going to feel screwed out of our fandom.
The Chase is a compromise. It is a much better compromise than the Regular Season Championship we were sold under the Playoffs, but a compromise still.
At the same time they can't be changing everything - there's been a lot of change by NASCAR standards in the last 5 years. Huge shift in scheduling after almost 20 years of fairly stagnant scheduling. New car with an all new suspension and built around an all new engine formula. New TV deal, Charter negotiations.
I get NASCAR wanting to let those things settle before making the championship format be the big change for the year.
At the same time they can't be changing everything -
Like introducing stages for all three national series and the Playoffs for Busch/Nationwide/Xfinity/O'Reilly and Trucks both happening in 2017. NASCAR has been more than willing to make sweeping changes all at once before.
Huge shift in scheduling after almost 20 years of fairly stagnant scheduling. New car with an all new suspension and built around an all new engine formula. New TV deal, Charter negotiations.
And all (but one) of these examples have been good, and have already happened since 2020. I hope the schedule doesn't stagnante again and I hope for more Mexico Citys and Canadian races going forward. The new car has had hiccups but those get fixed with time. The TV deal made NASCAR a shitton of money but now we're back to ~2000 days where you need cable and multiple streaming services to follow week to week.
I get NASCAR wanting to let those things settle before making the championship format be the big change for the year.
And I don't. The championship is always going to be a discussion for change and will be until the sport is gone. No matter what gets announced tomorrow someone will want it changed. I want it changed off of Playoffs and it looks like I'm getting that so I'll actually give a fuck about this years champion. But when the topic comes back up next I'll be saying Full Season again like in ARCA or IMSA which are owned by NASCAR.
Drivers kept calling it “the chase” damn near til Covid. I think it’s more that they don’t have anything official to call it. NASCAR currently still has playoffs until they don’t.
The championship will be a 3 race event where the championship drivers are going to do all 3 races back to back to back. Once they complete one race they have to immediately load up and race the hauler to the next track and begin the next race. First driver to complete all 3 races wins the championship.
It’s likely gonna be a money thing, something like what Denny Hamlin wanted on his podcast. Playoffs, but each round of the playoffs points don’t reset and if you’re eliminated you get put back where you would have been in the points without the playoff boost. Thus eliminating teams getting the huge prop up in end of season purse from running at the back all year and winning Talladega/Daytona/Atlanta.
Easy solution 1 race. The Daytona 500 is the 1 race of regular season. The top 43 drivers are in the playoffs and the rest of the season is playoff races. The driver at the last race of the playoffs with the highest points wins.
That’s because every time Bob tweets something and thoughtlessly uses the word “playoffs” because that’s the word that’s been used for the past 10 years, and is the best way to describe what he’s talking about, this sub loses its mind and assumes and jumps to conclusions.
NASCAR also said that the haters are bots, NASCAR also went to court and pretty much admitted that they lacked self-awareness.....so this doesn't mean much NASCAR isn't the most reliable narrator
My guess is 10 race format with 10 drivers. 3-3-4. Eliminating 3 and 3 and the final 4 duke it out across 4 final races with the last one being homestead this year and deemed the championship race. No win and in but a win nets you 50% more points than 2nd place.
Elimination means it will all be like the exhibition races where the first stage all the non playoff drivers compete and then in the eliminations, it’s like qualifying laps. ITS REVERSE NASCAR METHODOLOGY. WE QUALIFY THEN RACE THEN QUALIFY TO CROWN CHAMPS /omg
I myself wanted 4-3-3 going 16-12-6, reset if you want after each round. But I can see a 12-16 Chase style format.
The two things I will say is that if we are going beyond 12, it really should include the Top 10 + drivers with the most wins outside of the Top 10 (Top 10 guaranteed, plus any winners based on amount of wins first then points). I would also like to reformat the Regular Season Championship bonus points to 50-40-35-30-25-20-15-10-5-1 for the Top 10.
I'm gonna guess a vector-type point system that adds qualifying points, passing points, and is more like f1 where it is not one point per position. Just a guess.
I’ve seen a few fans assuming nascar will make big changes to the format in response to what the fans actually want to see. And hey, that would be fantastic but maybe it’s because I’m older and a grump but I’ll remain skeptical of nascar making significant changes that we want to see until the day that it happens and the texts from nascar executives essentially calling us fans idiots reinforces my extreme skepticism that nascar will make significant changes that us fans want to see. In this case I truly hope I’m wrong and my skepticism is wrong as well but I guess time will tell.
I cant wait for next year when Logano runs away with it the last 4 races by conservatively running 8th every week instead of going for wins and the race threads are full of people raging about how boring it is
I wonder if superspeedway races become more conservative as well (which isn't a bad thing). I would take solid 5th to 15th place finishes vs crashing out going for the win.
This is honestly probably one of my two biggest issues with the current format. You can't really get happy about having a 'Good day' anymore. Strayed away from Drivers being content with: "Good points day. We had a fast car, we were top five all day. Finished P3." Because all it takes is ONE upset win by an outlier team, and it ruins everything.
My other issue, of course, is the example that a driver could theoretically win the first 35(!) races, and if they have an engine failure at the finale? "Heh. Enjoy your FOURTH place season standing."
Good point. I really hope the new system rewards constancy and eliminates the fluky aspect of the old system. Though I will admit, the cutoff races were fun and exciting, it was also stupid at the same time.
Yeah, fans complaining is literally the primary reason the chase first started and then later, the playoffs.
And to clarify, its the stuckup,1% commenters like you. That complain every single week about every single thing. The gate keepers. Youre the people that tell others they aren't allowed to like the playoffs. Scum of the earth basically. There's trash like you in every Fandom unfortunately and you rats feed off each other's sourness
Just blaming everything on us is so much easier than any amount of introspection. It's on us even if we had been calling for full season the second they announced the Chase in 2004. Everything is our fault and nothing is ever yours.
Who is "yours"? I dont complain about anything or whine or cry? I love NASCAR and enjoy it every week and thrive with changes. A technologically based entertainment product has to change over time, regardless of what you think. Especially one thats a niche product and relies on a sponsorship model. Crying every day about some " we want the points back from 22 years ago" is get off my lawn type whiny baby stuff, especially since most people whining about it were either kids or not even born then. Its exactly the same type of stuff that happened when the HANS came into existence. And mandatory full face helmets.
NASCAR itself and its biggest defenders like you, ranger and son is a box.
I dont complain about anything or whine or cry? I love NASCAR and enjoy it every week and thrive with changes.
You refuse to accept that not everyone is onboard with all of those changes. I have changes that NASCAR has made since 2003 that I love and I recognize not everyone is on board with. I get that some people feel 6 road courses is too many and I hope a nice number can be found for them unless that number is 0 or 2. I get not everyone is for limiting Cup drivers in lower series but limiting to 10 is much better than Edwards and Busch killing Saturdays. Change will happen but not all change is for the better.
Crying every day about some " we want the points back from 22 years ago" is get off my lawn type whiny baby stuff, especially since most people whining about it were either kids or not even born then.
Or watch IndyCar and you come and yell at us about how its viewership sucks because Indy sucks. Or watch F1 and you come yell at us saying there's no passing and no racing. Or WEC/IMSA and we get told no one wants to watch a 24 hour race or full season.
A lot of us are willing to accept the Chase coming back even if its not our preference. But god fucking forbid we have an opinion. At least your Playoff look dead as hell, here's hoping it gets buried this time tomorrow.
All this because 2002 and 2003 was two seasons that were outiners. 2002 wasn't a great points battle, it was teams tripping over themselves because Sterling Marlin got injured at Richmond. And 2003 Matt Kenseth probably was the best driver that year, he probably had another gear but because everyone again tripped over themselves and Kenseth was in points protect mode (which is the biggest problem with a full time season) by June.
This just tells me it won’t be called a “playoffs” but doesn’t mean they are going full season.
I'd honestly be happy if they stopped calling it the playoffs too. The chase at least sounded cooler and unique.
Nope, it'll be 1v1 tournament, knockout style over with the best one advancing each round...or some stupid shit like that
Ty Dillon championship incoming
I laughed way too much at this.
This is almost worse than the existing playoffs
And that is why they will do it 😂
Ten race demolition derby at a figure 8 track. Only one car for the duration. Whoever is still running at the end wins.
Actually, my inner redneck wants that now.
I...am okay with this
36 race knockout format. 1 winner. 1 champion. Who will survive?
If they love eliminations so much, they should have one every week. After every race, the lowest driver in points gets eliminated. No rounds, no resets, no bonuses. Just straight up last in points gets knocked out.
I haven't watched in a decade but "chase to the cup" sounded better. I get why they went to playoff style, trying to keep excitement til the last race, but it never worked for me. Knowing my driver was out with 12 races to go just made me stop caring
Probably won't be full season. Chase-style format is more likely
Playoffs is just a dumb word. We're not playing we're racing
Racewar?
Too soon, Jr
Dom Toretto - 2026 Champ confirmed.
Impossible. They banned him from the tracks for life.
I can see Larson's wife knocking out a rival crew member
Larson victory confirmed
That names already trademarked by ICE
Come on, Bill!
Not to mention all of the teams continue to compete until the end so theyre not really getting played off to begin with
Fans are the only ones getting played
That's why this is so frustrating. Playoffs are really a necessary evil in team sports because only two teams play at once. And hell, some soccer leagues don't even have playoffs and do full season standings.
But one of the best parts of racing is that every team races each other every week.
So a Raceoff? I'm not sure about that one.
It's settled then. The new format from this day on shall be dubbed "Race-offs"!
That would unironically be an improvement.
As a Bubba fan, I don't like this.
All the more reason to hope he wins it so he can give big🖕🏿to all the pieces of shit out there.
Since it’s so many teams and cars, they should just call them “Race Riots.”
Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, that is a ridiculous hill to make an issue.
Raceoff?
Raceoffs?
I really miss the Chase for the NASCAR Sprint Cup
Mentioned this numerous times, but I suspect we're going back to the Chase
It's gotta be something like a chase format plus an updated points system. Something that's complicated enough to need an entire press conference to explain.
I'm honestly more curious to see the points system than the format
Especially how they’d incorporate stage racing into the Chase style.
3 points per stage win and 1 point per stage top 10 would be ideal. Rewards the stages but keeps the race win as a big points advantage.
It would be super cool is the Chase didn't have stages at all. Like that would be the "dynamic." Advertisers would still have their guaranteed commercial breaks during the regular season (barf), but the viewing experience would improve when they need to compete with the NFL.
They're never going to stop pretending they're adding more commercials "for the fans".
True, but people would be more likely to click over from NFL if the race isn't at commercial break. NASCAR needs to invest in itself and building a larger fan base. One of the reasons F1 has been so successful recently is no commercial breaks.
Yeah we saw the one year they tried doing no stages for the road courses, and seeing one of them go green the whole way make Jim France so sick that he had to changes the rules mid-season to bring stages back before the roval. I'm not sure if it's a demand from the broadcasters or if the Frances just have their heads so far up their asses that they genuinely believe stages are good for the sport.
And honestly, if they’re insistent on it, I’ll be ok with that. At least the Chase didn’t create champions who were outside Top 10 drivers without it. I’d still want a full season format, but that’s gonna still be a hard ask from NASCAR
The chase isn't great but at least it's getting closer to nature healing.
And while Jimmie and Chad using the summer as on track testing sucked, it was an opportunity they had because of their success. And come to think of it, the current format makes that more valuable, but other then kinda Penske, nobody does that today.
Yeah it's an absolute joke when you know the Daytona 500 winner can basically take a 25 week vacation, but it seems like the bonus points are enough of an incentive for the teams to actually keep trying all year. So I'd definitely expect an updated Chase style system to keep the bomus points from the playoff system, or something similar.
Id honestly be fine with a 16 driver chase, top 12 in points, 4 wild cards, and the same system for playoff points. Make winning the race 50 points instead of 40 and its golden. Gives the larger group for sure, but also hands small teams a way to earn the bonus money a like they can now without disrupting the actual championship battle.
If not full season then this is a fair compromise. Only addition I would add is the top 30 in points requirement for the wild cards. Makes the points in the back matter more too.
Does top 30 make any difference from requiring teams to attempt every race?
I mean, other than the 500 pretty much any team that shows up will make the race anyways so, no?
It does make a difference for the bottom few charter teams that finish sub 25th nearly every week. If you want to hinge your season on just a plate race then thats fine but your week to week shouldn't just be "riding" around so to speak.
Oh, you were responding to his wild card idea. I totally missed that and agree 100%.
16 is way too many, if you're in 16th in points you do not need to be racing for a championship
I dont disagree, but its still less than the NHL and NBA in comparison. Also if its the wildcard format for 12-16, it allows someone with 4 wins like SVG in.
Comparing the top 16 in Nascar to playoff teams in other professional sports is an apples to oranges comparison. There's a fine line between the wild card seeds and division winners. In Nascar, there's a massive difference between the top 8-10 drivers and 11-16.
And the teams, sponsors, and TV aren't going to put 16 back in the bottle. Sorry to crush your dreams of legitimacy.
You're putting words in my mouth. Typical. Not once did I say they needed to or were going to change it from 16 teams. My point is that in other professional sports, lower seeds are consistently competitive enough to make a run at a championship. That's not the case in Nascar, or in motorsports in general.
16 just makes sense at this point. Keeps more fanbases engaged longer. 16/36 is close to the same participants as other sports as well.
I can’t see them going for an anyone can win parity in the sport and also limit the post season to 10 cars. They’ll likely expand it to 12-16 still.
Ideally, they'll expand to 50+ and start it in Daytona lol
I would love to see the points breakdown from the original chase format and a full season of Winston cup. I know it won’t be an exact matchup but if I were to guess majority of the champions in the Chase format would’ve won the season long Winston cup championship as well, outside of Kurt Busch, and probably one or two of Jimmie Johnson’s championships.
Chase and playoffs is the same thing.
The Delay that we have felt between insider knowing what it was, and this announcement, is just the idea that they wanted to sell the new chase to a company for naming rights.
Which I'm extremely surprised they never did with the rounds.
But imo, I'm expecting the chase bank chase for the cup on Monday, with special guests Chase Briscoe, Chase Elliott, and Chase Ford driver.
Edit: spelling
No one wanted to buy naming rights for the rounds because the playoff idea was stupid.
And to their credit, NASCAR has standards for advertisers. So crypto scams couldn't buy those for cheap.
Is that Chase Cabre's music I hear?!
I’ve heard Chase from Paw Patrol will also be on hand for kids in the fanzone.
Chevy Chase confirmed.
With music by debut country artist Chasey Chasington
The Chase for the Bill France Cup
Which is the perfect name
I'm prepared to be whelmed.
Tune in to Adam Stern five minutes before the press conference to find out
I doubt it tbh. I think Bianchi, Stern, all the media know what it is but like the San Diego announcement, NASCAR likely gave all that info to them under an agreement to have an embargo on releasing the news. Which I think worked well for San Diego (even though we knew for months it was heavily rumored).
I'm certain they already have it under an embargo. That's how you get full-length stories written about the system posted five minutes after NASCAR's announcement.
I worked in radio for many years, embargoed announcements were very common, I mean its the only way to really hype an event.
Exactly. This is done all the time re: release of bigger stories (state of the union speech, major donation to non-profit, trades, etc.).
You hit it. The articles are prewritten to an extent. The drivers and teams already know what it is. It will just be public tomorrow.
(NASCAR rn)
Because they’ll pick the best name
Raceoffs
It's almost like they do actually know that the fan base hates Playoffs.
They've known that since 2003.
They just think the fans are dumb enough to trick by calling it a different name.
watch tomorrow when everyone says "well I wanted full season but I can be happy with this"
the execs do it because they know you suckers will never quit watching
The sport kept growing through 2007 even with the Chase though? The eliminations caused issues, but the Chase was widely accepted it just had 2 big issues - stagnant tracks in the final 10, and Jimmie Johnson going on his run.
No, it did not. This is either ignorance or a blatant lie.
Ratings grew in 2004 and 2005 as the sport rode the wave of growth from the late 90s boom and Dale's death - and presumably, some people were enticed by the novelty of what the hell a playoff in auto racing could look like. The decline started in 2006, before Johnson ever won a title, and before the 2008 financial crisis, the other common excuse NASCAR bootlickers like to use. The truth is that the novelty of the Chase format worked exactly twice... and then completely tanked with constant losses for the next six seasons in a row. People gave it two tries, and then rejected it.
Just look at all the red numbers, meaning ratings drops, for 2006...
And the trend down continued in 2007... Jayski wasn't so kind as to color-code the list for 2007, but scroll down to the blurb below the chart for this gem -
If you notice it was a big change for network as well. Went to 2 cable only providers, few more rain delays. For networks that stayed the same some ratings went up from 2005 to 2007, some went down.
It was also a time of big changes in announcers, and I think for the most part most were not taken fondly. There was also the start of the cable cutting push (I was one of them, stopped using cable in 2007 for a long time).
Also looking at F1 their decline in started in 2004 (https://i.ibb.co/5Wyt9jL/110-F181-E-4-D75-4-F79-A2-D2-5-BF33-F6-A9476.jpg) so it appears there were more outside factors in people becoming less interested in racing in general.
Trying to point the decline at one thing is disingenuous. Only those with an agenda will do so.
Not from 2005 to 2006, there wasn't.
There were already 2 cable channels running NASCAR Cup series points races in 2006, 4 on FX and and 8 on TNT. In 2007, that changed to 6 on ESPN and 6 on TNT. The split of network to cable races stayed exactly the same, 24 network, 12 cable.
Some? Try one. Spring Martinsville on Fox was literally the one and only race that had a better rating in 2007 than 2005. Every other like-for-like comparison was a decline.
Why do you keep saying things that are so easily proven false?
Using an anecdotal example with a sample size of one to try and claim that cord cutting "push" started in fucking 2007, when less than half the US even had broadband internet but over 80% of the US had cable or satellite, is one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen on this sub. Thank you for the laugh.
Cable TV was literally setting viewership records in 2007.
What the fuck does
Kyle PettyF1 have to do with this?You started off this conversation by pretending that the decline from 2005 to 2007 was actually two years of growth, what agenda were you trying to serve with that blatant lie?
It grew despite the Chase. Fans gave it a few years, realized they didn’t like it, and started leaving.
The Chase was never the issue. It was fine. People were just unhappy because Jimmie Johnson and Chad Knaus were gods.
it was always the issue.
So then why did the elimination format last longer than the Chase if we're finally admitting the Playoffs were worse?
Because NASCAR changed leadership before they could change it again and the current leadership seems to understand the smartest thing they could do is keep a championship format for more than 4 seasons before changing it like Brian was doing
And it just happened to be the worst format that they kept for seasons on end and NASCAR continued to gaslight the fans by saying this is what we actually wanted.
That's frustrating for sure, was pretty obvious (even for those of us that like some sort of reset) that a 1 race final round was a very bad idea. But as the other comment noted they had been changing the format so much they decided they needed to work on other things and let a format simmer for a bit. I think we'll get some good things out of the years of elimination format - drivers going all out for wins, playoff point format, stage points (not the breaks, but the points).
And putting the format on simmer simply let it boil over into the near revolt we saw last year. The primary issue is that the amount of points resets made many of us feel like nothing we were watching mattered because it only set the stage and wasn't a part of the actual show. If we go to the Chase and are back to just one reset its significantly better but many are still going to feel screwed out of our fandom.
The Chase is a compromise. It is a much better compromise than the Regular Season Championship we were sold under the Playoffs, but a compromise still.
At the same time they can't be changing everything - there's been a lot of change by NASCAR standards in the last 5 years. Huge shift in scheduling after almost 20 years of fairly stagnant scheduling. New car with an all new suspension and built around an all new engine formula. New TV deal, Charter negotiations.
I get NASCAR wanting to let those things settle before making the championship format be the big change for the year.
Like introducing stages for all three national series and the Playoffs for Busch/Nationwide/Xfinity/O'Reilly and Trucks both happening in 2017. NASCAR has been more than willing to make sweeping changes all at once before.
And all (but one) of these examples have been good, and have already happened since 2020. I hope the schedule doesn't stagnante again and I hope for more Mexico Citys and Canadian races going forward. The new car has had hiccups but those get fixed with time. The TV deal made NASCAR a shitton of money but now we're back to ~2000 days where you need cable and multiple streaming services to follow week to week.
And I don't. The championship is always going to be a discussion for change and will be until the sport is gone. No matter what gets announced tomorrow someone will want it changed. I want it changed off of Playoffs and it looks like I'm getting that so I'll actually give a fuck about this years champion. But when the topic comes back up next I'll be saying Full Season again like in ARCA or IMSA which are owned by NASCAR.
Basically Chase is the expectation and anything more with be consider extra.
I’m keeping my expectations low for when it’s officially announced. That way I’m not disappointed.
That’s my philosophy: when you always expect mediocrity, you’re pleasantly surprised more often.
Me just preparing to be hurt yet again by NASCAR
They have the wrong attitude trying to push any format rather than just the racing speak for itself.
Back to The Race for The Chase for The Cup for The Thing.
Sponsored by: Trojan Enz
Sounds like a rebranding to me
So we’re /not/ talking about playoffs?
https://preview.redd.it/3tlcpdzeqrcg1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37ad4a4d59de035e25d788506181feebcde9dba2
Take this for what you will… my comment under Bianchi’s announcement of an announcement tweet
I fully expect to be disappointed...
I know I’m gonna be disappointed, the only question is how disappointed
Probably because you're the type that will be disappointed no matter what.
A driver literally called it “the playoffs” yesterday. Please start accepting reality. It’ll make tomorrow easier on ya.
Drivers kept calling it “the chase” damn near til Covid. I think it’s more that they don’t have anything official to call it. NASCAR currently still has playoffs until they don’t.
Hopefully that was just "old habits die hard"...but you're probably right.
Are we avoiding the word "playoffs" the same way NASCAR was avoiding the phrase "permanent charters"?
And restrictor plate
The championship will be a 3 race event where the championship drivers are going to do all 3 races back to back to back. Once they complete one race they have to immediately load up and race the hauler to the next track and begin the next race. First driver to complete all 3 races wins the championship.
https://preview.redd.it/1x2owk626rcg1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6adef3e5b0169665c2168df8ea7fde58971f19b
That means absolutely nothing.
I’m guessing 12 drivers and a 10 race format with maybe 1-2 resets
Every hint we have gotten basically confirms it won't be season long
It’s likely gonna be a money thing, something like what Denny Hamlin wanted on his podcast. Playoffs, but each round of the playoffs points don’t reset and if you’re eliminated you get put back where you would have been in the points without the playoff boost. Thus eliminating teams getting the huge prop up in end of season purse from running at the back all year and winning Talladega/Daytona/Atlanta.
Easy solution 1 race. The Daytona 500 is the 1 race of regular season. The top 43 drivers are in the playoffs and the rest of the season is playoff races. The driver at the last race of the playoffs with the highest points wins.
Big if true.
WE'RE CALLING IT THE CHASE FOR THE MFING CUP LFGOOOOOO
Hear me out, “The Chase for the Championship” or shortened to simply “The Chase”
I think it will be full season.
That’s because every time Bob tweets something and thoughtlessly uses the word “playoffs” because that’s the word that’s been used for the past 10 years, and is the best way to describe what he’s talking about, this sub loses its mind and assumes and jumps to conclusions.
well it also isnt called simply "points system" so I really don't see a full season championship
Check newly registered trademarks to NASCAR (and their entities) for what the new name will be.
The RaceOff
Briscoe and Elliott are excited.
Post-Heat Pursuit, brought to you by Icy Hot!
Looks like we’re going back to the Chase format 🙄
Cheers to the Chase!!
Because they know you get triggered by the word "Playoff".
It’s gonna be some bullshit like most wins in the season wins the championship
NASCAR also said that the haters are bots, NASCAR also went to court and pretty much admitted that they lacked self-awareness.....so this doesn't mean much NASCAR isn't the most reliable narrator
My guess is 10 race format with 10 drivers. 3-3-4. Eliminating 3 and 3 and the final 4 duke it out across 4 final races with the last one being homestead this year and deemed the championship race. No win and in but a win nets you 50% more points than 2nd place.
“The Chase for the Cup”
They trying to stay relevant with "playoffs"? Dont like the word "format" either. Leave well enough alone and let the gentlemen start their engines!
Don't tease me.
Elimination means it will all be like the exhibition races where the first stage all the non playoff drivers compete and then in the eliminations, it’s like qualifying laps. ITS REVERSE NASCAR METHODOLOGY. WE QUALIFY THEN RACE THEN QUALIFY TO CROWN CHAMPS /omg
Still the Chase to me.
I myself wanted 4-3-3 going 16-12-6, reset if you want after each round. But I can see a 12-16 Chase style format.
The two things I will say is that if we are going beyond 12, it really should include the Top 10 + drivers with the most wins outside of the Top 10 (Top 10 guaranteed, plus any winners based on amount of wins first then points). I would also like to reformat the Regular Season Championship bonus points to 50-40-35-30-25-20-15-10-5-1 for the Top 10.
Kevin Harvick coming back out of retirement.
I'm gonna guess a vector-type point system that adds qualifying points, passing points, and is more like f1 where it is not one point per position. Just a guess.
I have a feeling like Tomorrow might feel like Christmas for some
I have a feeling some people are going to be let down, cause they dreamed for something else.
I’ve seen a few fans assuming nascar will make big changes to the format in response to what the fans actually want to see. And hey, that would be fantastic but maybe it’s because I’m older and a grump but I’ll remain skeptical of nascar making significant changes that we want to see until the day that it happens and the texts from nascar executives essentially calling us fans idiots reinforces my extreme skepticism that nascar will make significant changes that us fans want to see. In this case I truly hope I’m wrong and my skepticism is wrong as well but I guess time will tell.
People still watching this?
Everything still points to the old 10-race chase format. But since it's not the 16-driver playoff format, it makes sense to change its name.
It’ll be fine as long as they get rid of stage racing & win and your in.
Stages and "win and you're in" can go away and I'd be happy.
I cant wait for next year when Logano runs away with it the last 4 races by conservatively running 8th every week instead of going for wins and the race threads are full of people raging about how boring it is
I wonder if superspeedway races become more conservative as well (which isn't a bad thing). I would take solid 5th to 15th place finishes vs crashing out going for the win.
This is honestly probably one of my two biggest issues with the current format. You can't really get happy about having a 'Good day' anymore. Strayed away from Drivers being content with: "Good points day. We had a fast car, we were top five all day. Finished P3." Because all it takes is ONE upset win by an outlier team, and it ruins everything.
My other issue, of course, is the example that a driver could theoretically win the first 35(!) races, and if they have an engine failure at the finale? "Heh. Enjoy your FOURTH place season standing."
Good point. I really hope the new system rewards constancy and eliminates the fluky aspect of the old system. Though I will admit, the cutoff races were fun and exciting, it was also stupid at the same time.
Then everyone is going to complain about how boring those are and blame the car.
Totally. NASCAR is screwed either way.
I think in alot of ways the fans are to blame.
Yeah. Everything is always our fault. Everything.
Yeah, fans complaining is literally the primary reason the chase first started and then later, the playoffs.
And to clarify, its the stuckup,1% commenters like you. That complain every single week about every single thing. The gate keepers. Youre the people that tell others they aren't allowed to like the playoffs. Scum of the earth basically. There's trash like you in every Fandom unfortunately and you rats feed off each other's sourness
Just blaming everything on us is so much easier than any amount of introspection. It's on us even if we had been calling for full season the second they announced the Chase in 2004. Everything is our fault and nothing is ever yours.
Who is "yours"? I dont complain about anything or whine or cry? I love NASCAR and enjoy it every week and thrive with changes. A technologically based entertainment product has to change over time, regardless of what you think. Especially one thats a niche product and relies on a sponsorship model. Crying every day about some " we want the points back from 22 years ago" is get off my lawn type whiny baby stuff, especially since most people whining about it were either kids or not even born then. Its exactly the same type of stuff that happened when the HANS came into existence. And mandatory full face helmets.
NASCAR itself and its biggest defenders like you, ranger and son is a box.
You refuse to accept that not everyone is onboard with all of those changes. I have changes that NASCAR has made since 2003 that I love and I recognize not everyone is on board with. I get that some people feel 6 road courses is too many and I hope a nice number can be found for them unless that number is 0 or 2. I get not everyone is for limiting Cup drivers in lower series but limiting to 10 is much better than Edwards and Busch killing Saturdays. Change will happen but not all change is for the better.
Or watch IndyCar and you come and yell at us about how its viewership sucks because Indy sucks. Or watch F1 and you come yell at us saying there's no passing and no racing. Or WEC/IMSA and we get told no one wants to watch a 24 hour race or full season.
A lot of us are willing to accept the Chase coming back even if its not our preference. But god fucking forbid we have an opinion. At least your Playoff look dead as hell, here's hoping it gets buried this time tomorrow.
All this because 2002 and 2003 was two seasons that were outiners. 2002 wasn't a great points battle, it was teams tripping over themselves because Sterling Marlin got injured at Richmond. And 2003 Matt Kenseth probably was the best driver that year, he probably had another gear but because everyone again tripped over themselves and Kenseth was in points protect mode (which is the biggest problem with a full time season) by June.
Too bad ESPN uses the phrase "championship drive" for college football
Who is going to tell all the people i've read in this NASCAR subreddit who quit watching NASCAR?? Do we need a subcommittee to reach out to them??
I feel like the chase format is the best compromise here
Well there was a Missouri compromise and we know how that all turned out