Way back when I was a young 'un, in the 80's, I remember being introduced to Anne Frank sort of in stages. Basically, we learned a little more about her in an age appropriate way every year, I think around the anniversary of her death, until we were also roughly her age, when we finally read and studied the book itself.
It allowed us to be a little more prepared for what we would eventually read, allowing us to fully understand and appreciate what happened to her and others during WWII without being as traumatized by the horror of it all as we might have been. I think the school system did an excellent job preparing us for that one.
I should note that my state is ranked among the top four in the nation for education, the exact placing varies depending on who you ask. Quality education really does make a difference.
What they didn’t teach in middle school is that the American government knew all about German-led attempts at extermination of the Jews as early as 1939 and intentionally downplayed it for five years.
That bit of info was left for a little later in my school system, and yeah, they did more downplay it as a later entry into the war as less as "we knew these atrocities were happening and did nothing". There's no question that there was whitewashing American history, even in the better schools.
The school systems had some strange ideas as to what they felt was appropriate to teach the kids and what wasn't appropriate. That was across a lot of subjects, not just American history. I can understand not wanting to teach a ten year old about medical experiments and gas chambers. That can be very traumatizing stuff if it's given too bluntly at too young an age. Hell, some adults get traumatized by the images. But I've never been ok with this sort of rewriting things to make ourselves look like heroes when we didn't deserve it. Kids deserve to know the full truth, even when it's not pleasant.
I've always found it bizarre that right wingers take this kind of history so personally. They weren't there, they didn't do these things, they had nothing to do with it, but you would think they were being personally accused of committing the acts that occurred decades before they were born. They don't seem to grasp the idea that the point of learning the negative history of our country isn't to make their snowflake feelings get a boo boo, but to make sure that we, as a nation, learn from past mistakes and do better, so we can become the people they want to believe we always were.
The irony here is that they are so busy burying their heads in the sand and crying about being made to feel bad about our history that they don't even see that they themselves are now repeating the very actions they should have learned to avoid by learning about that same history. They're denying the comparison of MAGA to pre-WWII Germany, but they've also refused to learn about that precise bit of history so they could see exactly why the entire world keeps making that comparison.
There is literally ZERO evidence that the US government knew about the camps before 1942. But hey, it’s Reddit, so I guess it’s okay to make things up as long as it makes America look bad?
There may not have been absolute proof of Nazi Concentration / Extermination Camps prior to 1942, but many countries knew long before then about the persecution of the Jews.
The US knew in 1938 that massive numbers of Jews were fleeing the hands of the Nazi's, and flat out refused to ease immigration restrictions to allow the refugees to come to the US.
Look up the Evian Conference of 1938.
The first concentration camp was created in 1933 and by 1938, even without any absolute proof of the camps, there was plenty of proof of the persecution that was going on.
It is important to distinguish between the early concentration camps (which were essentially brutal prison and forced-labor camps) and the later extermination camps (designed solely for industrialized mass murder, primarily using gas chambers). Yes, the US knew about camps but not extermination camps until 1941. It’s even in Ken Burns World War II documentary. If you go to the National Archives, you can search late 1930s newspaper articles where they talk about camps. Leaked photos from Dachau in 1941 were proof the US knew about extermination camps pre-1942.
Edited to add: I’m from SC and a public school graduate.
We should ask,'How does it benefit a child to not know authoritarianism is bad?'
I think there are age appropriate ways to explain how authoritarian ideals and behavior are bad to younger audiences. The facts are the facts. it's oppressive and only benefits the 1%. It's like teaching kids not to play with guns. It's not a conversation anyone wants to have, but we HAVE to, or bad things will happen.
To the MAGABILLIES never. It so closely resembles their way of life they don't want children to know they are wrong they can't have their kid hating they version of America can they?
Iirc they banned the graphic novel of Anne Frank because it mentions her fantasising about another girls breasts and a mention of how open she could talk about sex with her boyfriend, illustrated by the word "penis".
MAUS gets banned all the time due to a separate earlier comic usually printed in it between volumes that has the author's depiction of naked holocaust victims.
They are awfully consistent on this point, talking about sex? bad, drawing anything sex-related? Double-not-good, ban-worthy.
So, at what age is it appropriate to point out that Nazis and authoritarian regimes are bad?
I think we studied Anne Frank when we were roughly her age, which seems like a good point in time for it.
Way back when I was a young 'un, in the 80's, I remember being introduced to Anne Frank sort of in stages. Basically, we learned a little more about her in an age appropriate way every year, I think around the anniversary of her death, until we were also roughly her age, when we finally read and studied the book itself.
It allowed us to be a little more prepared for what we would eventually read, allowing us to fully understand and appreciate what happened to her and others during WWII without being as traumatized by the horror of it all as we might have been. I think the school system did an excellent job preparing us for that one.
I should note that my state is ranked among the top four in the nation for education, the exact placing varies depending on who you ask. Quality education really does make a difference.
What they didn’t teach in middle school is that the American government knew all about German-led attempts at extermination of the Jews as early as 1939 and intentionally downplayed it for five years.
That bit of info was left for a little later in my school system, and yeah, they did more downplay it as a later entry into the war as less as "we knew these atrocities were happening and did nothing". There's no question that there was whitewashing American history, even in the better schools.
The school systems had some strange ideas as to what they felt was appropriate to teach the kids and what wasn't appropriate. That was across a lot of subjects, not just American history. I can understand not wanting to teach a ten year old about medical experiments and gas chambers. That can be very traumatizing stuff if it's given too bluntly at too young an age. Hell, some adults get traumatized by the images. But I've never been ok with this sort of rewriting things to make ourselves look like heroes when we didn't deserve it. Kids deserve to know the full truth, even when it's not pleasant.
I've always found it bizarre that right wingers take this kind of history so personally. They weren't there, they didn't do these things, they had nothing to do with it, but you would think they were being personally accused of committing the acts that occurred decades before they were born. They don't seem to grasp the idea that the point of learning the negative history of our country isn't to make their snowflake feelings get a boo boo, but to make sure that we, as a nation, learn from past mistakes and do better, so we can become the people they want to believe we always were.
The irony here is that they are so busy burying their heads in the sand and crying about being made to feel bad about our history that they don't even see that they themselves are now repeating the very actions they should have learned to avoid by learning about that same history. They're denying the comparison of MAGA to pre-WWII Germany, but they've also refused to learn about that precise bit of history so they could see exactly why the entire world keeps making that comparison.
Kinda weird that you were taught that, since there is no evidence or any shred of anything showing the US knew about the camps before 1942.
There is literally ZERO evidence that the US government knew about the camps before 1942. But hey, it’s Reddit, so I guess it’s okay to make things up as long as it makes America look bad?
Read The Devil’s Chessboard. Nice guy named Dulles in there knew all about it. Didn’t want America in another war so soon.
There may not have been absolute proof of Nazi Concentration / Extermination Camps prior to 1942, but many countries knew long before then about the persecution of the Jews.
The US knew in 1938 that massive numbers of Jews were fleeing the hands of the Nazi's, and flat out refused to ease immigration restrictions to allow the refugees to come to the US.
Look up the Evian Conference of 1938.
The first concentration camp was created in 1933 and by 1938, even without any absolute proof of the camps, there was plenty of proof of the persecution that was going on.
https://stlholocaustmuseum.org/learn/timeline/
https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/history/evian-conference
It is important to distinguish between the early concentration camps (which were essentially brutal prison and forced-labor camps) and the later extermination camps (designed solely for industrialized mass murder, primarily using gas chambers). Yes, the US knew about camps but not extermination camps until 1941. It’s even in Ken Burns World War II documentary. If you go to the National Archives, you can search late 1930s newspaper articles where they talk about camps. Leaked photos from Dachau in 1941 were proof the US knew about extermination camps pre-1942.
Edited to add: I’m from SC and a public school graduate.
And visiting the actual death camps really cements the idea that Nazism/ fascism is a really bad idea.
We should ask,'How does it benefit a child to not know authoritarianism is bad?'
I think there are age appropriate ways to explain how authoritarian ideals and behavior are bad to younger audiences. The facts are the facts. it's oppressive and only benefits the 1%. It's like teaching kids not to play with guns. It's not a conversation anyone wants to have, but we HAVE to, or bad things will happen.
Yes
Apparently, the goal is never.
To the MAGABILLIES never. It so closely resembles their way of life they don't want children to know they are wrong they can't have their kid hating they version of America can they?
Somewhere after Clifford the Big Red Dog, but before Bi-Curious George.
At birth?
"It important to let people come to their own conclusions in their own time. Also, get them kids to church ASAP." -MAGA, probably.
Let's not forget the straight up racist hogwash he's spouting. He's glad those books were banned because he's natc himself.
Yeah, I saw that and immediately knew what they were trying to get at.
Wait, SC literally banned Anne Franke and 1984? Outside Fahrenheit 451, there are literally two no worse books to ban to prove you are villain.
My kid literally brought home 50 shades of gray home from her Florida high school library once 0.0 (~2014?)
Iirc they banned the graphic novel of Anne Frank because it mentions her fantasising about another girls breasts and a mention of how open she could talk about sex with her boyfriend, illustrated by the word "penis".
At least, that was the official explanation.
But she talked about sexual fantasies in the original diaries…they are saying the visuals make it worthy of surprising free speech?
MAUS gets banned all the time due to a separate earlier comic usually printed in it between volumes that has the author's depiction of naked holocaust victims.
They are awfully consistent on this point, talking about sex? bad, drawing anything sex-related? Double-not-good, ban-worthy.
Yes. I personally think this is just an excuse, but they do indeed claim it is.
Disliking Book bans amount to bigotry? Lol 😆
“Education outcomes in SC by demographic”
My pets started howling in the next room that dogwhistle was so loud.
The gaslighting... man.
I wonder what age would the dude deems appropriate to introduce mein kampf
Quick rule of thumb to avoid word salads. The side wanting to ban books is never the right side, morally or historically.
Considering driving on I-95 in SC is nearly the same as a dirt road, I'm not surprised their education system ranks in the bottom tier.
Both books have been found “appropriate” for over half a century.
So, what’s changed?
What are the other ones using? Google Sheets? Apache OpenOffice?
Between this and the unnecessary comma, I'm thinking this person is from one of the places that doesn't.
Stories like these make me happy to be in NJ, one of the top two states for education.