I get shit from 2 of my friends for playing Moira. One of whom is a Masters Brig/Doomfist main while I’m only Plat 4. He insists that Brig is the most valuable support to have while Moira is the absolute least. And DESPITE our difference in ranks and all the conviction in his voice when he shit talks the goat, he gets overwhelmingly mogged in heals AND kills by me everytime we play QP. Even my brother whose favorite support is Wuyang gives me shit for playing Moira but not for the same reason. In his own words, I am “a good Moira but a bad healer.” First of all that is a slur to our kind and secondly I still average 10-11k heals every game and simultaneously KD mog our team constantly. You just can’t make these people happy bro. My buddy Tom genuinely said to me the other day in quotes “getting Ancient Caller is like buying a galaxy skin for a golf club.” Actually just saying words.
Everyone thinks their main is the most valuable because after enough time they've learned to adapt their playstyle to that hero's kit. I find moira pointless to play because I feel like everything she can do Juno can do better, but that's because I don't know how to optimize her kit. It's all a matter of perspective.
Ancient caller is one of the best mythics though
I’ve only played Juno like twice but I remember not having a very fun time
Ya I find her boring plus hard to get kills on like I do with Moira so other then speed boosting teammates I don’t find I get enough value with her.
I've wanted to be good with Juno but haven't played her much. What do you find in your pov that Juno does better?
I find that moira's damage feels like a slow ooze and in order to try to take down a target you need to draw so much attention to yourself that it's extremely hard to secure a kill without dying yourself. I'm sure better positioning and knowing when to be opportunistic can help with that, but i find Juno much better at getting picks because of her mobility. Moira has mobility, but it's entirely tied to one cooldown, where with Juno you can move around constantly and be unpredictable when you use different combinations of her double (or triple - my favourite) jump, her speed ring, and her glide boost. You can also cancel glide boost but you can't cancel fade. I find Juno's movement much more fluid and I'm way better at moving around between high ground and low ground, cover to cover, with Juno than with moira.
Back to damage, now that Juno can crit, she's actually really good at pressuring enemy players while also being annoying to deal with because you can jump around them, force their attention upwards instead of at your team, and you can get a burst with torpedoes if you're further away and dealing with falloff damage on the gun.
If your team needs more healing, moira has the perk that does 30 immediate healing with the orb, but you need to throw the orb in such a way that it will hopefully pass by everyone who needs it and hope they won't run away. Juno has a perk that targets allies with torpedoes faster and they lock on very quickly for guaranteed burst healing as long as they were all in LOS before firing (torpedoes can track teammates through walls but not enemies).
In terms of ult, orbital ray is also a beam focused to one area - she can't control it, but it gives anyone inside it a damage boost so it has huge potential to win a fight. Moira's ult only adds damage to moira while providing her team with healing. Juno's ult heals anyone inside it while amplifying the damage of anyone inside it.
Also speed ring is massively useful and I use it practically off cooldown, for some reason I don't see Juno players use it that frequently which is a shame.
Anyway, I know there are cracked moira players out there and I've watched one on YouTube (forget the name) who is a GM moira OTP who makes crazy plays I could never make, but I am not that moira and this is in general why I think Juno is just better. Juno got me to master after being hardstuck plat/diamond on mercy and Ana.
Thank you for taking to time to write all that out!!!
People who choose to shit on players because of the hero they enjoy playing aren't worth playing with. Value yourself.
Moira gets some hate because its very easy to pad stats and argue that its a valid measure of success as support. It's easy to slip into a main character syndrome - "look at everything i'm doing, I carry" type of thing. It works really well in low ranks, but as you climb, the ability to quickly punish mistakes is critical. Moira is somewhat lacking in that regard, just like lifeweaver, and hasn't got the "pivotal" abilities like a sleep, lamp or suzu. You are sustain, and a great cleaner.
My take is to first and foremost have fun playing the hero, and balance flanking and helping others to have fun in their role too. Embrace using your abilities to assist duels, and be aware that your stats doesn't tell the whole story of team value.
So lifeweaver life grip isn't a "pivotal" ability? Im genuinely curious. I would think that ability helps to prevent mistakes.
Pulling someone out of a rein pin or gripcleansing a naded hog is great - don't get me wrong :) Lifeweaver is unironically all about living, and is close to unkillable - just like moira. His healing is incredible, but it's at the cost of pressure - which is what i ment by lacking pivotal abilities. In a balanced comp he can take the healing load off a more pressure oriented support, which is great!
Yes it is a valuable cooldown, but for the most part you aren’t winning fights single-handedly with a life grip. It can and does happen, but not nearly as often as a sleep, nade, suzu, or discord. It’s more impactful than say whipshot or boop, but its cooldown is so long that many times he gets outvalued by these short cycle supports.
Abilities with cooldowns as long as pull or immort field are pretty shit in OW2 all things considered. They feel like they just don’t fit into how fast paced OW has become over the years. Even Rez is pretty mid tbh, being either completely free or useless depending on the location of the fight in regard to the target.
Used to be a moira main; I’ve swapped to Juno bc she’s easier to get value on in masters. I’ve seen ppl who make moira work — she requires a lot of game sense and proactive play; you can’t just sit and healbot on her. Moira can be an insane space maker, a second tank, or a healer if need be all at once. Respect!
i think brig is a good supp too and me and my friends all have heroes we like/dislike but i feel like thats rude for them to say😭 dogging on you isnt gonna make you stop playing moira, hate us cause they aint us for real 🙄
People like that suck :/ you can hate the character, but its really stupid to take that further and hate the people just for playing said characters :/
My friends also HATE Moira, but they really don't care that I play her. They say stuff like " we need to make it so only you are allowed to play Moira " lol.
He is wrong about Brig being the most valuable support anyways. And while Moira is not as strong in higher ranks, she still has her uses and she does excel in certain comps.
But you are relying too much on stats/scoreboard. Moira is almost always going to have the highest healing numbers due to the fact that all of her abilities contribute to heals, whereas the abilities of other supports don't always show up on the scoreboard (i.e. Ana's nades, Kiri's suzu, etc). Moreover her self heals are considered as heals too (every time you suck damage from the enemy, you are getting self heals).
Same goes for damage. Your orb, if it doesn't end up killing low hp enemies, will usually tickle multiple opponents. They will get healed, you didn't do anything at all and your stats suddenly look better. Also, you get easy kills and assists by throwing orbs that wouldn't have affected the outcome.
Point is your stats might convince you that you were the best player in the team, but the reality is Moira is the biggest stats padder. But don't let anyone discourage you from playing Moira. She is useful and mastering her will certainly let you rank up with more experience.
Yea of course you have more heals and kills you’re on THE stat farming hero lmao, what is this cold ass take
As a 235 Moira OTP I'd say play whatever you like and let them cope.
thats what moira is in the communities eyes. its a hero that doesnt require as much aim, positioning as other heroes, so that where they are coming from.
But.
who cares, its just a video game, have fun
Moira actually requires just as much skill with positioning and timing as Ana to get the most value.
Definitely not, let’s not kid ourselves. Moria’s fade is a great escape and movement ability which has zero delay and turns her into an invulnerable, invisible escape missile, and also has a semi decent self heal from her orb. Those two combined mean that having silver level positioning will be able to support you in semi high rank play.
sorry bro, a moira has a get out of jail free card in the form of fade. ana has non of that.
thats not a valid argument
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sleep is a skill shot and both abilities are not saving her if she gets hit by any kind of coordinated dive. this has to be ragebait, these are not get out of jail abilities nor comparable to fade in this argument
I main moira (105, ana at 35). Moira doesn't have value or utility in the sense that she is basically a heal or damage hero with nothing else to add to the fight except those things. Others have sleep, anti heals, speed boost, portable healing stations, valuable ults, invulnerability, etc etc. Dps moira is a valid playstyle but it is annoying to your team because your dps will suffer from lack of heals. Balanced moira is good. Heal bot moira is boring and provides no pressure to enemies. I had a comp game 20/5 with 10k damage 25k heals. Significantly more than all the other supps in the game. It still wasn't enough to win. A support on ana or kiri would have provided better utility in terms of abilities but would have really had their work cut out for them in this particular game. She's fun, she's misunderstood in terms of how she should be played, shes not a good main. I am training ana and juno now to help get further into plat/diamond.
completely agree, except for that moira’s ult isn’t valuable because it 100% is
Coal is legit garbage as far as ults go. You can get some value out of it but generally its more as a fear factor.
Moira doesn't have click a button utility but she offers alot more than just heals or damage. It's just much harder to provide value as you need to position very well, all the time. You need to time your attacks intelligently to relieve pressure from your other team mates. Apart from Brig she's the only support that can viably tank for short periods of time and she does it better than Brig aswell.
Yep! Moira's biggest skill expression in my opinion is how well you can position yourself, provide heals and pressure. Doing damage is itself a form of healing. Out damaging a tank while healing yourself is something not a lot of supports can do. Neither is standing front line putting pressure on enemy team so no one can dive. Imo she hard counters genji, tracer, widow and sombra. Hear me out on the widow thing. Get her fade major perk and start diving widows. You won't regret it.
It's because her only real value is staying alive and that doesn't cut it in upper ranks, low damage is very easy to deal damage but it's so minimal, and her healing is not that great Maybe it's been buffed since she was my main and can't turn a fight favorably. However if you like her play her and "im just being real wit chyou" isn't a reason to be a complete asshole.
Her real value is only coming from kills and healing, a lot of other support offer much more. Not saying she is bad, she is my most played support, but Ana/Bap/Kiri can turn fights way quicker ime
I love duoing with a Moira as a LW. Widely hated “brainless low skill” healers ftw 🤝 we’ll prove em wrong
Stats dont really matter. Moira is a stats hero who lacks utility and burst damage, so she will by default she will have more stats
Either way it doesnt matter who you play. Every support can carry
They are in no way whatsoever wrong. You’re in plat because they are correct. Playing moira provides no utility. You are a heal bot turret that throws out a couple of damage orbs every fight to farm damage and piggyback off of your teammates eliminations. Moira is a stat padding hero, flexing your heals and damage on moira is like a mercy flexing she has 12k heals while having 5% dmg boost uptime, useless. You don’t provide burst heals, you don’t provide enemy debuffs, you don’t provide buffs for your team, and you don’t provide burst damage. Your job is to be a heal bot turret and tickle onehp targets that would have died anyways, urging them into the grave. You wanna know why your in plat, because moira is a noobstomper, she’s a character noobs play to feel good about them selves by having a look at the scoreboard, and the character noobs hate and love complaining about. She stops being useful in semi decent ranks as she provides no utility, mechanics of the opposition become better, and they realise how horrible she actually is. She does provide the least value out of any support, she does have the simplest gameplay loop of any support, she does lack depth and she is easy.
Babe moira is THE stat pad support. Looking at the scoreboard and saying "I got the most heals and kills" means jack shit when you are playing moira. You basically have to be playing with your feet for your second support to beat you in stats lol
I always think its weird when people say this. Its reasonable in terms of eliminations because of how the tag system works but to include it for any other stat just seems silly
Definitely not, I used to play Lucio in bronze a couple years ago. Especially on kings row, I would play like a heal bot. Hiding behind cart pumping out aoe heals, easily achieving 20-25k heals in a 14 minute game on LUCIO. Do you really think me doing that was valuable to my team? Healing 5 health every second for 4 people means increasing my healing stat by 20 every second, not counting amp it up and major fights. Once I got better on Lucio, my healing dropped down to 4K and I won more games, because once again, STATS DONT MATTER. None of it matter unless you use proper context. Moira is a stat padding hero. She provides zero utility, piggy backs off of teammate eliminations, does a tiny bit of aoe non threatening damage every couple of seconds due to damage orb, and provides sustain heals. Her stats mean nothing.
Nice dude, so you've climbed from Bronze to what rank now?
Diamond 1 currently, peak is masters 5 on dps.
That's brilliant mate, well played
But it's not? You really don't have to work hard to have good stats with moira. Orb is on a 7 second cooldown and can max damage for 200 or heal for 300, even without direct line of sight because of bouncing and it can even go through shields.
On top of that you have primary and secondary fire that are very hard to miss, and her healing piss is 80hp per second and ticks over time. Every time you damage an enemy you heal yourself which pads stats. Not to mention her ult, which pierces and so can have multiple targets a a time and can heal for 140hp per second.
A brig sat in the backline waiting for the enemy to dive them isn't gonna get anywhere near the same stats that a moira in the same position can get.
Thanks for the tutorial. My issue is the claim its stat padding, seems fairly nonsensical to call any healing stat padding. Some damage can be but it's a pretty small percentage overall, most damage has value.
You are right though, a Brig sitting back completely inactive won't get the same stats as an active Moira. Although that is an interesting comparison.
Okay, pedant. Ignore that I said stat Padding, I didn't mean that using her abilities means someone is deliberately trying to inflate their stats, just explaining how just playing her normally results in such high numbers compared to other supports. Mora really is the worst character to say you're performing better than your other supp due to stats, because hers are always high unless you're having an absolutely terrible game.
And you're being deliberately obtuse lol. I was actually comparing both characters sitting back. Comparing an inactive brig to an active moira would be asinine, but you're just looking to straw man cause for some reason you don't want to accept one of the most basic facts of overwatch: Moira basically always outperforms her second support in raw stats. So op being a plat Moira peacocking about how they're actually better than their master's brig because of stats is silly. That is the crux of it and idk why you don't want to accept it.
The fact that he has less kills and heals than you with brig, despite being way higher rank is all the evidence you should need. Moira has no utility. To rank up, supports need to be setting up plays and Moira just can’t do it.
I think in gold/plat moira gets a tonne of value because she can easily lock on and deal damage while her opponent can’t aim at her so well. In masters this is less of a thing so her value drops off
Come que with us Lifeweaver/Ana mains. I have never had an issue with a good Moira when I'm Weaver. You are the ones I least have to baby sit because you can fade out and orb yourselves. Means my Grips can be for the tank, my platforms for my escape and if I get Dived, you Moiras always love to punish that diver.
As a newbie in ow2 I feel Moira is honestly really bad. But your friends should stfu, since good hands can get value out of everything. They should never, ever point at you because you play some characters. Being meta slave sucks. Her gameplay is fun and she's such an incredible character. They're just basic 21-jap-girl-meta enjoyers.