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Not that big a deal. We get it Alex already said it a million times we all know it has screw holes. And if someone doesn’t it’ll be a pleasant surprise lol
Eh, it takes a really clean minimalist design and pretty drastically changes it. Yeah Alex said it, but they're still shipping the protos for media coverage that arent representative of the product you can purchase.
These images are great, scooped does great work and these images really highlight how nicely designed the screwless bottom really is.
It's not misleading per se, but they're not doing an much of an active job of communicating the design change either, and these prominent marketing images will live on long after the boards are sold out of a product you couldn't buy.
The prototypes were completed before the decision to switch to external case screws
Would you rather they delay the entire gb so the new protos could be made (wasting time and money) or just have the protos with baion bolt and the person showcasing it saying "they changed the screws to external case screws"
I'll choose to delay. That's the entire point of a group buy, no? You're trying to gather people up to produce something everyone wants (or at least the majority can get into a consensus in). That's what makes a GB a community effort markedly different from a Kickstarter, or what Massdrop used to do. Funny that you mention "wasting time and money" since that was what it was originally! Less of a profit-seeking venture and more of trying to lose as little amount of money possible (sometimes staying in the red, even) to realise something that wouldn't have been feasible alone.
If the point is to sell something that they want to make and for profit at the cost of being misleading, in stock sale is always an option.
Choose to delay an already delayed group buy over prototypes that do not match the final product (as is often the case)?
This also isn't a small 30 unit group buy that could actually miss MOQ, this is a follow up design from someone who's already designed 2 very decently popular and successful boards. There's no "community aspect of trying to make something happen", this gb was 99% going to happen regardless.
You've also completely missed one point of group buys. It's often to gather people up to produce something that the designer wants. Not design by committee, not community consensus, a lot of the time (especially with small gb) it's a designer who's designed a board that they want but don't want/can't afford to pay the exorbitant cost of a one-off from a reputable manufacturer.
If you still don't understand why things were done the way they were I'd challenge you to run your own gb and see what happens.
I see your point but your also supporting ours, the board will sell regardless, and if it's a large gb then the gb is more so free financing than a mechanism for creation.
Meaning, it could sustain the 2 -4 week extension of gb to set the record.
Sure many production boards don't exactly match the proto, but it's typically far less drastic than the design change here, were going from baion bolts (unique, cool, interesting, novel) and a clean aesthetic, to basic through construction and visible holes (cheaper, no greater re-engineering necessary to address 11th hour critical design flaw?)
I don't mind holes and exposed bolt heads in most boards, but this looks like what it is, an afterthought, where the advertised board is something far more refined and premium.
Baion bolts are not unique, cool, interesting or novel. It's an improved implementation of a flawed concept. And if you think exposed screws on this board doesn't look as refined as premium as the protos/previous renders then what the fuck is the glare tkl, which is constructed in the EXACT same way?
The design change is fine, screwless fans in shambles
Yeah, what the designer wants but also what those community members also want, because customers are ultimately buying the product, not the designer. It's nor a charity, the customers forking out the money because they are under the rightful impression that the designer is making something they want, based on what they see.
I'm sure a GB doesn't give the designers the carte blanche of changing whatever they want after protos are out, after its streamed, and after the customers essentially get the sense of the product they're about to buy - that's unfair. Let's not normalise GMK Peaches n Cream here.
You'd be livid if your favorite car manufacturer put out an order for a green-colored car you want, and it arrives red. Except this is how it looks fundamentally - you can always repaint a car, but you probably can't change the angles of which the door handles are positioned.
Again, in-stock is always an option if what the designer wants to do is something that they can refine and change without issue up to the last moment. If it's as you said that they're an established designers with a few popular boards under their belt, I'm sure that means that they should be held under a higher standard because, as you said, this isn't really a 30 MOQ GB with a risk of failure.
What exactly is the risk of delaying GB really, when essentially for the more populat boards, they're interest-free financing?
Actually, the designer has carte blanche the entire time
You are forgetting that they are the ones who designed the thing to being with, and this being a hobby if people don't like it they won't buy it. If it doesn't meet MOQ as a result then so be it.
And your car colour analogy is fucking stupid, this isn't anything remotely close. This is fucking screw placement. This is nowhere near something like car colour and is closer to IMPROVING the design than anything.
Not delaying the GB probably comes down to trying to minimise further delays after the Sebas TH edition weights putting every nuxros project on hold (like the +84). And given that manufacturing will probably start somewhere near lunar new year and that ramp up from people coming off holidays will take some time, on top of any surprise tariffs that might happen in the intervening period.
This is a non issue solved by simply saying that the screws have been changed and that renders will be updated to match (and they mostly have).
edit: this is even more of a non issue, just noticed the raw proto that alexotos received has the updated screw positions.
The designer has carte blanche, but not when he's showing one thing and selling a different thing.
Yeah the car analogy is definitely stupid, but it was the most contrasty thing that I can think of at this moment to show just how stupid it is - because we're not just talking about car colors, but rather a change from baion bolts to regular external screws. I'm sure you've been in the hobby long enough to know how that would fundamentally affect the board that people will be getting.
I would imagine that ai03 would have drawn heat if he would've promoted Vega as an internal screw board and then ultimately selling something else entirely. Why shouldn't we hold designers to some sort of good standard?
The world isn't going to end if +84 had started many months from now. The only thing the designer will be losing is the sunk cost of ordering prototypes, and the time spent designing the board. It's ultimately an interest free financing, so I don't get why it's so difficult to take your time.
correction: he showed you one thing, then changed it and showed it to you again with the updates
There is 0 deception here
If you've already ordered one just cancel, if you're on the fence just don't buy it
It's not that complicated
Would you rather nuxros update it, say nothing and then when it shows up you feel scammed?
He has done everything right, he's told people it's changed, he's gotten updated prototypes, he's gotten updated renders. And yet people still want to make it an issue over baion bolts, which need I remind you is merely a slightly better implementation of a flawed concept that is a DETRIMENT to most designs
I think I'd delay or revise the media schedule, I don't see why that has to conflict with production and gb timing more than it presumably has.
It's a gb, everyone that wanted it the second it released knows by now of the design change, unsold units might take longer to convert due to delay in marketing but that will still complete prior to the boards being ready to fulfill anyways?
Basically they're creating their own problem, I agree with Alex they need to update their renders, this is along the same vein of thinking, you need to update your physical renders too.
If you did that by the time the revised protos are done the gb would be over, in fact it ends on boxing day. You'd then have the issue of people who only just find out about the board through the media promotion saying "wtf why are you only just showing us this board then the gb has ended"
If you’re in a rush to have it before everyone else, sure. But just add to cart, pay, and there within a couple weeks plus you get to see more typing tests before you actually purchase. And what $20 more? In this economy doesn’t even matter.
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They really need to stop sending the internal screw kits for media coverage if they're all shipping with screw holes on the bottom.
Cool board, but the last minute change in aesthetics and the continued showing off of the cleaner version doesn't sit well with me
Exactly, this will be very deceiving for many buyers
I wonder if the PC version has visible screws.
Not that big a deal. We get it Alex already said it a million times we all know it has screw holes. And if someone doesn’t it’ll be a pleasant surprise lol
Eh, it takes a really clean minimalist design and pretty drastically changes it. Yeah Alex said it, but they're still shipping the protos for media coverage that arent representative of the product you can purchase.
These images are great, scooped does great work and these images really highlight how nicely designed the screwless bottom really is.
It's not misleading per se, but they're not doing an much of an active job of communicating the design change either, and these prominent marketing images will live on long after the boards are sold out of a product you couldn't buy.
The prototypes were completed before the decision to switch to external case screws
Would you rather they delay the entire gb so the new protos could be made (wasting time and money) or just have the protos with baion bolt and the person showcasing it saying "they changed the screws to external case screws"
I know which scenario I'd prefer
I'll choose to delay. That's the entire point of a group buy, no? You're trying to gather people up to produce something everyone wants (or at least the majority can get into a consensus in). That's what makes a GB a community effort markedly different from a Kickstarter, or what Massdrop used to do. Funny that you mention "wasting time and money" since that was what it was originally! Less of a profit-seeking venture and more of trying to lose as little amount of money possible (sometimes staying in the red, even) to realise something that wouldn't have been feasible alone.
If the point is to sell something that they want to make and for profit at the cost of being misleading, in stock sale is always an option.
Choose to delay an already delayed group buy over prototypes that do not match the final product (as is often the case)?
This also isn't a small 30 unit group buy that could actually miss MOQ, this is a follow up design from someone who's already designed 2 very decently popular and successful boards. There's no "community aspect of trying to make something happen", this gb was 99% going to happen regardless.
You've also completely missed one point of group buys. It's often to gather people up to produce something that the designer wants. Not design by committee, not community consensus, a lot of the time (especially with small gb) it's a designer who's designed a board that they want but don't want/can't afford to pay the exorbitant cost of a one-off from a reputable manufacturer.
If you still don't understand why things were done the way they were I'd challenge you to run your own gb and see what happens.
I see your point but your also supporting ours, the board will sell regardless, and if it's a large gb then the gb is more so free financing than a mechanism for creation.
Meaning, it could sustain the 2 -4 week extension of gb to set the record.
Sure many production boards don't exactly match the proto, but it's typically far less drastic than the design change here, were going from baion bolts (unique, cool, interesting, novel) and a clean aesthetic, to basic through construction and visible holes (cheaper, no greater re-engineering necessary to address 11th hour critical design flaw?)
I don't mind holes and exposed bolt heads in most boards, but this looks like what it is, an afterthought, where the advertised board is something far more refined and premium.
Baion bolts are not unique, cool, interesting or novel. It's an improved implementation of a flawed concept. And if you think exposed screws on this board doesn't look as refined as premium as the protos/previous renders then what the fuck is the glare tkl, which is constructed in the EXACT same way?
The design change is fine, screwless fans in shambles
Yeah, what the designer wants but also what those community members also want, because customers are ultimately buying the product, not the designer. It's nor a charity, the customers forking out the money because they are under the rightful impression that the designer is making something they want, based on what they see.
I'm sure a GB doesn't give the designers the carte blanche of changing whatever they want after protos are out, after its streamed, and after the customers essentially get the sense of the product they're about to buy - that's unfair. Let's not normalise GMK Peaches n Cream here.
You'd be livid if your favorite car manufacturer put out an order for a green-colored car you want, and it arrives red. Except this is how it looks fundamentally - you can always repaint a car, but you probably can't change the angles of which the door handles are positioned.
Again, in-stock is always an option if what the designer wants to do is something that they can refine and change without issue up to the last moment. If it's as you said that they're an established designers with a few popular boards under their belt, I'm sure that means that they should be held under a higher standard because, as you said, this isn't really a 30 MOQ GB with a risk of failure.
What exactly is the risk of delaying GB really, when essentially for the more populat boards, they're interest-free financing?
Actually, the designer has carte blanche the entire time
You are forgetting that they are the ones who designed the thing to being with, and this being a hobby if people don't like it they won't buy it. If it doesn't meet MOQ as a result then so be it.
And your car colour analogy is fucking stupid, this isn't anything remotely close. This is fucking screw placement. This is nowhere near something like car colour and is closer to IMPROVING the design than anything.
Not delaying the GB probably comes down to trying to minimise further delays after the Sebas TH edition weights putting every nuxros project on hold (like the +84). And given that manufacturing will probably start somewhere near lunar new year and that ramp up from people coming off holidays will take some time, on top of any surprise tariffs that might happen in the intervening period.
This is a non issue solved by simply saying that the screws have been changed and that renders will be updated to match (and they mostly have).
edit: this is even more of a non issue, just noticed the raw proto that alexotos received has the updated screw positions.
The designer has carte blanche, but not when he's showing one thing and selling a different thing.
Yeah the car analogy is definitely stupid, but it was the most contrasty thing that I can think of at this moment to show just how stupid it is - because we're not just talking about car colors, but rather a change from baion bolts to regular external screws. I'm sure you've been in the hobby long enough to know how that would fundamentally affect the board that people will be getting.
I would imagine that ai03 would have drawn heat if he would've promoted Vega as an internal screw board and then ultimately selling something else entirely. Why shouldn't we hold designers to some sort of good standard?
The world isn't going to end if +84 had started many months from now. The only thing the designer will be losing is the sunk cost of ordering prototypes, and the time spent designing the board. It's ultimately an interest free financing, so I don't get why it's so difficult to take your time.
correction: he showed you one thing, then changed it and showed it to you again with the updates
There is 0 deception here
If you've already ordered one just cancel, if you're on the fence just don't buy it
It's not that complicated
Would you rather nuxros update it, say nothing and then when it shows up you feel scammed?
He has done everything right, he's told people it's changed, he's gotten updated prototypes, he's gotten updated renders. And yet people still want to make it an issue over baion bolts, which need I remind you is merely a slightly better implementation of a flawed concept that is a DETRIMENT to most designs
I think I'd delay or revise the media schedule, I don't see why that has to conflict with production and gb timing more than it presumably has.
It's a gb, everyone that wanted it the second it released knows by now of the design change, unsold units might take longer to convert due to delay in marketing but that will still complete prior to the boards being ready to fulfill anyways?
Basically they're creating their own problem, I agree with Alex they need to update their renders, this is along the same vein of thinking, you need to update your physical renders too.
Revise the media schedule?
If you did that by the time the revised protos are done the gb would be over, in fact it ends on boxing day. You'd then have the issue of people who only just find out about the board through the media promotion saying "wtf why are you only just showing us this board then the gb has ended"
6 month of waiting…
That’s why I always just wait for in stock extras 😂
That would mean you not only wait longer but also pay more.
If you’re in a rush to have it before everyone else, sure. But just add to cart, pay, and there within a couple weeks plus you get to see more typing tests before you actually purchase. And what $20 more? In this economy doesn’t even matter.
È spettacolare 😍
Are those novelty keys? if so which ones and whats the box youve put them in.
What's that mouse?
Angry miao infinity
This is almost as cute as you