Normally I rely on savant for like everything, but I feel like this might just be how they calculate it. Like for sprint speed they only capture so much data for it since you can run relatively slow a lot of the time, and I wonder if that’s not the case for arm strength, or if all throws are calculated so his score is dragged down by the fact he doesn’t need to throw max strength, where as Ben kinda is on every throw.
Yea I wouldn’t take it as gospel, defensive metrics as a whole are shaky much less savants. Like it’s hard for me to believe after watching him that they have Williamson rated as an average defender. Geno’s arm definitely didn’t look as strong this year but still looked stronger by the eye test to me as well.
Could even be that because Geno made more errors, it's calculating him trying to make up for his bobble with a piss missile making his average throw speed go up
His last full season with Perry Hill he was nearly a gold glover with a -3 DRS and +11 OAA. Maybe he wont get back to that form after 2 years away but im sure with a full spring he would be a fair bit better.
I just don’t want you blocking the development of the kids that will be here long term. Lot of swing and miss in that swing I’d love for him to hit but last year was rough watching him after the trade.
I mean, it’s good for these young players to develop, but not at a cost of us not winning. I hope Williamson/Emerson can emerge as everyday players, but it’s not for certain. I’m curious if Cole Young will be ready next season or not. I hope so.
But there’s some uncertainty where possibly having Geno would be better option.
Colt can also get reps at second.
Swing change might make Williamson better- but he isn’t magically developing power at his age, and the Mariners need power at third. If he ends up being offensively competent enough to be a starting 3b it will be for someone else. His profile is horrendous at T Mobile.
Cole young gonna need some reps too I like having not relying on all three of those kids but both Cole young and Ben Williamson are serviceable at the big league level. Ben Williamson 1.3bwar in 277 abs, Cole young .5 bwar in 220, Geno .3 in 220 with Seattle last year. Shows me he’s a bench player. But i think Geno can be better than he was.
My impression of him in the playoffs was... Plus defender. Don't know if that is necessarily what he'll be all season long for another season haha. But I actually think he made a good handful of great plays with the glove and especially with his arm.
Reading what Hollander said, I think this is clearly a "we'd love it if the market brings the price down" type of thing. Geno would be nice as a primary DH and 3B insurance on a 2 year deal. They obviously love him as a clubhouse guy and competitor.
Steamer projects him for 2.5 WAR after averaging a consistent 3.5 over the previous four years. At a reasonable rate, Geno is way better than a vibes move, he is a legitimate infield upgrade.
It's not pure vibes when our only other options at 3rd are Ben Williamson or trading more prospects for a 3B. Geno is a legitimate starting 3B for this team in its current form.
It's not pure vibes when our only other options at 3rd are Ben Williamson
Williamson accrued 1.3 WAR in 295 PA last season. Suarez accrued 0.3 WAR in 220 PA as a Mariner last season. One player is regressing and approaching the end of his career, while the other is just getting started.
I legitimately don't understand why people continue to talk down about Williamson, especially in favor of Suarez. People are in love with the occasional HR, I guess.
Because this lineup needs bats and no matter how good his defense is we need to put runs on the board to win. Baseball is more than just accumulating WAR.
Ben is not an ideal player to have at 3B all season and I'm guessing all the experts who do this for a living in the organization agree with me.
That’s where I’m at cause the stats just don’t justify it. Don’t dogpile me!!! I’m a batting average and on base kind of guy, and we already have a guy like cal, Julio, etc that can hit absolute behemoth bombs.
I wanna go all in on Williamson. Another year of him under Perry Hill he’s gonna be great. Young bat, very good plate approach for a young man. He doesn’t have the Julio “let me swing at every strike two pitch out there!” Complex, etc.
and when you look at his VAR + slugging, the data shows there would be a lot of super fun time home runs that would be missed if he wasn't on the team.
He had that one cool grand slam, but I agree. I would rather save the money and play someone cheap like Williamson or young at 3B, and Maybe get a good bat before the td
I like this given the remaining free agents available and the reported cost for trading for major league level hitters.
The Mariners need 3 things right now: a RH bat (heavy LH lineup currently), a DH that can play some infield if needed, and to not block infield prospects. They also need a backup 1B but this is a lower priority.
Signing Geno accomplishes all of these things. Have him be the primary DH and he can play 3B or 1B once or twice a week when Naylor or Emerson / Williamson (whoever wins the job) needs a day off. Especially if it’s Emerson. He’s a LHH who will need some days off against tough lefties in his rookie year. That’s standard.
Obviously, they shouldn’t spend a ton on Geno. But if his market crashes and he’s available on a 1 or 2 year deal for relatively cheap, I think it’s a great fit at this point in the offseason.
I feel the pendulum has swung way too far against Geno among the fanbase.
It's true he was simply not good in the 2nd half of last year. He still hit 49 HRs with a 125 wRC+ and has had back to back 3.8 fWAR seasons.
If his market craters, which seems plausible given Murakami's deal, he would be a fantastic addition on a 1 or 2 year deal. He can mainly DH while being perfectly capable at 3rd. He's wildly popular among the fanbase, players, and coaches.
Food for thought: 2025 Steamer projected fWAR is 2.6. Polanco's is 1.8.
In Seattle Polonco might be about 2.0 and Geno just has a difficult time at the stadium 🏟 T mobile and slows in the 2nd half. Just from the last two seasons he has played in Seattle.
Polonco gets more comfortable is now healthy.
Well yeah, wRC+ removes the park factor so it makes sense that his actual batted balls were similar, but he got killed by the park when playing at home for us much of the time. Whereas Chase Field is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum as a big hitters park.
Yeah I'm definitely a vocal critic of his, seeing one of our "biggest" bats strike out so much was really not fun. But he's certainly not a bad player. If we can get a good deal on him and still give some of the rookies infield reps I'm not against it at all.
Signing Geno would be mostly DH and 3B probably 3-4 times a month, I imagine. They want Cole Young to get the vast majority of the playing time at 2B and the way they're talking about Emerson he's up in late May/early June, if not breaking camp with the team. Plus Williamson is still going to get playing time and he's most comfortable at 3B.
Murakami is off the board for far less than lots of journalists expected him to get. Okamoto is still available and might get even less than that.
Geno is better than either of them, but if he would take a handsome 2-year deal with a low fulfillment vesting option, I want the Mariners first in line. Go get the better player and go for the pennant.
I’m not convinced Geno would perform better for the mariners than Okamoto. Geno can’t hit in Tmobile he has proven that twice now. He should sign with Arizona and bash 40 homers again. He will not do that in Seattle.
Okamoto won’t either, but he will hit better for average and have better on base.
The mariners need more hitters who just knock the ball around and get hits. Think of how many times they stranded runners in scoring position. Geno Suarez is not a solution
We can approximate fairly confidently how well Geno will play in 2026. Okamoto has a wide range of outcomes.
I'm OK with Okamoto over Geno if he takes a smaller deal than what Murakami just agreed to, and the rest of the money upgrades the roster elsewhere. But a starting veteran infielder is likely able to be had for a short term deal in a year the Mariners can be favored to win the whole thing. Geno at market rate makes them better and keeps the window open beyond even if he craters in 2027.
Do you see his approach has had any change in the past 5 years? It’s this consistency that actually makes him so successful elsewhere, the dude has 325 HR in his career. He just can’t hit in T-Mobile
Yes, it’s well documented in the last year he changed up his approach, specifically moving up in the batters box. One of the big reasons he is thought to have had a resurgence.
I get people apprehension that people have about Geno and he should definitely not be the only bat we acquire, but him as a DH part time 3B isn’t that bad of a deal with how much he’ll probably get. If we re-sign him I’d be fine with it not wowed.
We shouldn’t be giving him the payday or the years he was hoping for after hitting 49 bombs but I think the fanbase is way more dramatic than they need to be fearmongering about bringing him back. He hit 49 jacks Even if he stays ass at T-Mobile we play half our games on the road and he hit 49 taters. You’d be happy to get half of that from whatever bats we sign this offseason.
I’m still convinced the hand injury he got right before the trade deadline was WAY worse than they were all making it seem. Just 2 different players before and after that.
Yeah, it's a mystery why Geno cannot hit well in an M's uniform. Maybe it has something to do with weather. He rejoined the Mariners when the weather was cooler and the playoffs are in the fall.
Man, I love Geno. If he's cheap I'm not opposed, but homes homers are not a problem for this lineup, especially when you have a catcher capable of hitting 60 of them.
Productive outs are a massive liability. Geno doesn't make productive outs.
If it's a one year deal, they should be all over him at a high price point. He can play third well enough and DH well enough to be useful as the infield prospects begin to show up in the bigs. Two years might be a fine signing, but two onwards gets a little freaky to me.
DH part time 3B?
He was still solid defensively last year. I get he’ll be a year older, and the injury risk will be greater, but he’s far from a defensive liability
Makes more errors than Ben but has a much stronger arm. I like it if we can keep him especially with Polo gone
Savant had Ben with the stronger arm for last year
Normally I rely on savant for like everything, but I feel like this might just be how they calculate it. Like for sprint speed they only capture so much data for it since you can run relatively slow a lot of the time, and I wonder if that’s not the case for arm strength, or if all throws are calculated so his score is dragged down by the fact he doesn’t need to throw max strength, where as Ben kinda is on every throw.
Yea I wouldn’t take it as gospel, defensive metrics as a whole are shaky much less savants. Like it’s hard for me to believe after watching him that they have Williamson rated as an average defender. Geno’s arm definitely didn’t look as strong this year but still looked stronger by the eye test to me as well.
Could even be that because Geno made more errors, it's calculating him trying to make up for his bobble with a piss missile making his average throw speed go up
He had a -6 DRS and -3 OAA last year, He was below average defensively
His last full season with Perry Hill he was nearly a gold glover with a -3 DRS and +11 OAA. Maybe he wont get back to that form after 2 years away but im sure with a full spring he would be a fair bit better.
My eyes said otherwise. 🤷🏻♂️
Oh wow which scouting department do you work for
I’m just saying
mine too
I just don’t want you blocking the development of the kids that will be here long term. Lot of swing and miss in that swing I’d love for him to hit but last year was rough watching him after the trade.
I mean, it’s good for these young players to develop, but not at a cost of us not winning. I hope Williamson/Emerson can emerge as everyday players, but it’s not for certain. I’m curious if Cole Young will be ready next season or not. I hope so. But there’s some uncertainty where possibly having Geno would be better option.
Nobody for our long term future is blocked at third base.
Isn’t Colt Emerson likely to get some playing time at 3B this season? SS definitely won’t be open until 2027
Yes but he can also get some reps at short and second- he doesn’t need to exclusively play third.
If Jp has another year like 2024, ss will definitely be open, I’d imagine
Ben Williamson with a swing change could be better, also colt Emerson can play 3b until the SS position opens up JP on his last year I think.
Colt can also get reps at second. Swing change might make Williamson better- but he isn’t magically developing power at his age, and the Mariners need power at third. If he ends up being offensively competent enough to be a starting 3b it will be for someone else. His profile is horrendous at T Mobile.
Cole young gonna need some reps too I like having not relying on all three of those kids but both Cole young and Ben Williamson are serviceable at the big league level. Ben Williamson 1.3bwar in 277 abs, Cole young .5 bwar in 220, Geno .3 in 220 with Seattle last year. Shows me he’s a bench player. But i think Geno can be better than he was.
Williamson is serviceable just not on our team the way it is constructed. There is plenty of room for Geno on this lineup.
Care to explain?
Have Geno at DH at and Williamson / Emerson at 3B most of the time. Geno can play 3B or 1B once or twice a week if needed. No one gets blocked
Just depends on price but certainly like free agents over giving up prospects at this moment. I don’t see any other power bat out there.
Agreed
My impression of him in the playoffs was... Plus defender. Don't know if that is necessarily what he'll be all season long for another season haha. But I actually think he made a good handful of great plays with the glove and especially with his arm.
He made some bad errors down the stretch
I’m not interested in his bat. He’s all or nothing, mostly nothing.
GM talk about a fan favorite
It's all fluff in the link but my teal colored stove is running on embers.
I think you mean Northwest Green * In Goldy voice*
Reading what Hollander said, I think this is clearly a "we'd love it if the market brings the price down" type of thing. Geno would be nice as a primary DH and 3B insurance on a 2 year deal. They obviously love him as a clubhouse guy and competitor.
This is a total vibes move if it happens
Dude must be a huge positive on the clubhouse
Steamer projects him for 2.5 WAR after averaging a consistent 3.5 over the previous four years. At a reasonable rate, Geno is way better than a vibes move, he is a legitimate infield upgrade.
It's not pure vibes when our only other options at 3rd are Ben Williamson or trading more prospects for a 3B. Geno is a legitimate starting 3B for this team in its current form.
Williamson accrued 1.3 WAR in 295 PA last season. Suarez accrued 0.3 WAR in 220 PA as a Mariner last season. One player is regressing and approaching the end of his career, while the other is just getting started.
I legitimately don't understand why people continue to talk down about Williamson, especially in favor of Suarez. People are in love with the occasional HR, I guess.
49 home runs is a little more than occasional lol
13 HR in 220 PA as a Mariner.
He had an outlier start to the season in a very hitter friendly environment. He promptly regressed towards the mean once he got here.
Not as a mariner lol
Because this lineup needs bats and no matter how good his defense is we need to put runs on the board to win. Baseball is more than just accumulating WAR.
Ben is not an ideal player to have at 3B all season and I'm guessing all the experts who do this for a living in the organization agree with me.
he is and i’m all for it!
That’s where I’m at cause the stats just don’t justify it. Don’t dogpile me!!! I’m a batting average and on base kind of guy, and we already have a guy like cal, Julio, etc that can hit absolute behemoth bombs.
I wanna go all in on Williamson. Another year of him under Perry Hill he’s gonna be great. Young bat, very good plate approach for a young man. He doesn’t have the Julio “let me swing at every strike two pitch out there!” Complex, etc.
he hit 49 homeruns. he's not nothing
He was worth 0.3 WAR as a Mariner last season, so it's almost nothing.
well don't worry we just signed Rob rhyfsneeder or something so we are good
His VAR is absurdly high (vibes above replacement).
and when you look at his VAR + slugging, the data shows there would be a lot of super fun time home runs that would be missed if he wasn't on the team.
Prefer Okamoto over Geno, it’s been proven multiple times that he simply just can’t hit in Tmobile
Cept for that one time. But yes I agree lol
That one time was pretty cool though.
He had that one cool grand slam, but I agree. I would rather save the money and play someone cheap like Williamson or young at 3B, and Maybe get a good bat before the td
Young is not playable at 3rd.
Or both?
You think they have the money lol
Japanese players rarely pan out, aside from Ichiro, Matsui and Ohtani, the rest are meh.
Much rather prefer Geno.
Seiya is a more recent one that did well.
He's ok nothing special,
He was 123, 120, 127 he is an all star
Yeah but not at the same caliber as Ichiro, Matsui and Ohtani.
He's a 3.4 bWAR player, quit solid but nothing that jumps out of the page.
If okamoto can even be close to seiya, M’s should be all over him
they rarely pan out except for all the times they do because scouts are actually still bad at their job...
Ohtani was labeled as a high school hitter by some scouts. this is a bad argument you're making
Position players rarely pan out, In 24 years since Ichiro only 4 or maybe 5 players have planned out, I'm not saying anything that's not true.
I like this given the remaining free agents available and the reported cost for trading for major league level hitters.
The Mariners need 3 things right now: a RH bat (heavy LH lineup currently), a DH that can play some infield if needed, and to not block infield prospects. They also need a backup 1B but this is a lower priority.
Signing Geno accomplishes all of these things. Have him be the primary DH and he can play 3B or 1B once or twice a week when Naylor or Emerson / Williamson (whoever wins the job) needs a day off. Especially if it’s Emerson. He’s a LHH who will need some days off against tough lefties in his rookie year. That’s standard.
Obviously, they shouldn’t spend a ton on Geno. But if his market crashes and he’s available on a 1 or 2 year deal for relatively cheap, I think it’s a great fit at this point in the offseason.
I feel the pendulum has swung way too far against Geno among the fanbase.
It's true he was simply not good in the 2nd half of last year. He still hit 49 HRs with a 125 wRC+ and has had back to back 3.8 fWAR seasons.
If his market craters, which seems plausible given Murakami's deal, he would be a fantastic addition on a 1 or 2 year deal. He can mainly DH while being perfectly capable at 3rd. He's wildly popular among the fanbase, players, and coaches.
Food for thought: 2025 Steamer projected fWAR is 2.6. Polanco's is 1.8.
In Seattle Polonco might be about 2.0 and Geno just has a difficult time at the stadium 🏟 T mobile and slows in the 2nd half. Just from the last two seasons he has played in Seattle. Polonco gets more comfortable is now healthy.
Fun fact, his wRC+ was 119 in his two years in Seattle, compared to 120 in his two years in Arizona.
Well yeah, wRC+ removes the park factor so it makes sense that his actual batted balls were similar, but he got killed by the park when playing at home for us much of the time. Whereas Chase Field is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum as a big hitters park.
Yeah I'm definitely a vocal critic of his, seeing one of our "biggest" bats strike out so much was really not fun. But he's certainly not a bad player. If we can get a good deal on him and still give some of the rookies infield reps I'm not against it at all.
Hells yes! Bring out the binoculars!
BREAKING: water is wet
Sign Okamoto, trade for Donovan if it makes sense. You get a little flexibility there because Okamoto can play a bit of 1B and DH as well.
Need 2 Bats
Signing Geno would be mostly DH and 3B probably 3-4 times a month, I imagine. They want Cole Young to get the vast majority of the playing time at 2B and the way they're talking about Emerson he's up in late May/early June, if not breaking camp with the team. Plus Williamson is still going to get playing time and he's most comfortable at 3B.
Murakami is off the board for far less than lots of journalists expected him to get. Okamoto is still available and might get even less than that.
Geno is better than either of them, but if he would take a handsome 2-year deal with a low fulfillment vesting option, I want the Mariners first in line. Go get the better player and go for the pennant.
I personally want to take a shot on Okamoto, but I would be happy with re-signing Geno for sure
I’m not convinced Geno would perform better for the mariners than Okamoto. Geno can’t hit in Tmobile he has proven that twice now. He should sign with Arizona and bash 40 homers again. He will not do that in Seattle.
Okamoto won’t either, but he will hit better for average and have better on base.
The mariners need more hitters who just knock the ball around and get hits. Think of how many times they stranded runners in scoring position. Geno Suarez is not a solution
We can approximate fairly confidently how well Geno will play in 2026. Okamoto has a wide range of outcomes.
I'm OK with Okamoto over Geno if he takes a smaller deal than what Murakami just agreed to, and the rest of the money upgrades the roster elsewhere. But a starting veteran infielder is likely able to be had for a short term deal in a year the Mariners can be favored to win the whole thing. Geno at market rate makes them better and keeps the window open beyond even if he craters in 2027.
Why do people keep saying Geno can’t hit in T Mobile. His two years in Seattle he had over a 120 wrc+ at home. He also mashed lefties while here.
Why do we assume that Geno is going to be better than either of them next year, especially at T-Mobile?
TBH, I wouldn’t mind seeing Geno again. Maybe he can work on his plate approach.
Doubt you making a 10 year vet like him change
Baseball is a game of adjustments. I don’t think one makes it 10 years if they don’t understand that.
Do you see his approach has had any change in the past 5 years? It’s this consistency that actually makes him so successful elsewhere, the dude has 325 HR in his career. He just can’t hit in T-Mobile
Geno has the highest wrc+ of any Mariner third baseman at home in the safeco/t mobile era
A very very low bar to pass
That bar is Kyle Seager and Adrian Beltre
Yes, it’s well documented in the last year he changed up his approach, specifically moving up in the batters box. One of the big reasons he is thought to have had a resurgence.
Example source: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/mariners-land-another-big-bat-returning-eugenio-suarez-to-the-emerald-city/
I would say yes, he is open to changing things up as needed in his approach.
I get people apprehension that people have about Geno and he should definitely not be the only bat we acquire, but him as a DH part time 3B isn’t that bad of a deal with how much he’ll probably get. If we re-sign him I’d be fine with it not wowed.
Please no more of this
I mean he was a lower WAR than Williamson so I don’t really love this. He hit .189 with the mariners
Depends on which WAR. Geno posted a .7 fWAR in 53 games…. While Williamson had .4 fWAR in 85 games.
When the difference is that little spend the money elsewhere
Sign Geno to be the primary DH and you can still play Williamson at 3rd
Getting Okamoto > re-signing Geno > any other move
Rather roll with williamson
We shouldn’t be giving him the payday or the years he was hoping for after hitting 49 bombs but I think the fanbase is way more dramatic than they need to be fearmongering about bringing him back. He hit 49 jacks Even if he stays ass at T-Mobile we play half our games on the road and he hit 49 taters. You’d be happy to get half of that from whatever bats we sign this offseason.
He didn’t hit away parks either in an M’s uniform after the deadline. Dude was just a black hole
I’m still convinced the hand injury he got right before the trade deadline was WAY worse than they were all making it seem. Just 2 different players before and after that.
Yeah, it's a mystery why Geno cannot hit well in an M's uniform. Maybe it has something to do with weather. He rejoined the Mariners when the weather was cooler and the playoffs are in the fall.
He had a 6 game hitting streak in the playoffs!
Man, I love Geno. If he's cheap I'm not opposed, but homes homers are not a problem for this lineup, especially when you have a catcher capable of hitting 60 of them.
Productive outs are a massive liability. Geno doesn't make productive outs.
Eh I’m not sure I’m into it. He’s not the right fit.
They let him go because he struck out too much. Then they bring him back. He hits one consequential slam and still strikes out too much.
They need much better hitters. I think Refsnyder might be the guy who turns the M's away from Geno.
Absolutely love this move. Don’t care if he hasn’t been amazing for us. We need a real DH option
Sure hope the mariners can sign a player that hits for average.
One year deal would be nice
If it's a one year deal, they should be all over him at a high price point. He can play third well enough and DH well enough to be useful as the infield prospects begin to show up in the bigs. Two years might be a fine signing, but two onwards gets a little freaky to me.
I wouldn't say no to bringing him back for a year. With an option year.
Yuck. Dude is trash at the home park. Look elsewhere.
I'd be fine with a 2 year deal at most
Plz don’t
Pass unless the market drops to rock bottom. Love the guy, but he wouldn’t help the team get further in the playoffs.
So we’re just going to bring back Geno and call it an offseason sounds like