I spent way too long looking up who that dude is and it is horrendous, just the 'cartoon' comparing Michelle Obama and Melania Trump alone is despicable, both racist and sexist.
There is one thing I will say for Garrison. If I want to know what MAGA is thinking, heās a barometer that takes less time than hours of watching Fox News or listening to shitty podcasts. Heās why I knew January 6th wasnāt going to be just another day. His ā¦editorials? are obnoxious, deluded, and disgusting. But they shed some light into why MAGAts think certain things, or donāt react to certain stuff.
His obsession with a number of Democratic women is glaring. Michelle Obama is one. I wasnāt really familiar with the conservative conspiracy theory about her gender before him. AOC is another one he fixates on (and probably has some weird fantasies about). Conversely the way he depicts people like Melania is only dwarfed by how he draws Trump. Who looks 40 years younger and has much better hair thanā¦
I've always been fascinated by the whole situation around his Trump tilting at windmills comic, especially his write up in response to the mockery it received. It says so much so succinctly about the conservative understanding of allegory and the sort of general need to destroy metaphor or even just the general concept of anything having meaning.
Currently in r/TikTokCringe there is an argument about some guy wearing "women's clothes" calling out a racist costume. You can already imagine what's being said.
transphobe drawing a trans person as a normal human being challenge impossible:
Ironically enough, I donāt want to feed some stereotypes but every single trans man Iāve seen has either been the cutest twink possible or the manliest bear in the world, Iām yet to see someone in between of those two
Thatās because you donāt see the trans dudes that pass as āregularā trans dudes. I feel you on that observation, but Iāve also been surprised by hanging out with regular ass dudes who bring it up.
i think it's because transmascs love masculinity and are comfortable in theirs, so you get the ones who highlight their love for it so are hypermasculine and the ones who highlight their comfort so dress however they like.
there's also (like you said) stereotypes about how ftm people look and often online/in media we only see the cliche young, pre-t transmasc with the dyed hair and pronouns or the very masculine transgender man used for a "gotcha" in internet arguments against transphobes. and most ftm people, especially het binary trans men, don't like to discuss their gender so you could've very well seen & talked to a very neutral guy without ever knowing how he was born.
Dehumanisation. When you want to make your group hate another group, you demonize them and turn them into something that is not human. It's been a practice for many years, especially during war. Remember how some propoganda cartoons depicted Japanese, yellow skinned buck toothed weasels. Or how back in the day, people made racist caricatures of black people with big red lips and again, weird teeth. This is what we see here, they hate transgender people so they made a harmful depiction of them. Usually they are depicted as men who wear dresses and don't pass, and in rare cases, they depict ftm trans people as ugly women with scars everywhere like they are zombies or Frankenstein's creations.
They don't see their enemies as people, they see them as nothing more than ugly creatures or monsters who can be compared to animals or vermin, which is not a good way of thinking about another human being who is just a bit different than you.
The way they draw and use hair is really fascinating to me.
Body hair in general, especially on cis women but not only, is really stigmatized.
Frequently āgoodā characters are depicted as being clean shaven, no body hair. They may have a beard but still often no or very little body hair.
I remember seeing an old racist caricature of a black girl that had a lot of body hair on the arms.
Iām not sure if itās a fixation with youth, some association with furry animals, grooming standards or some combination of the above but itās always something I notice. The more body hair a person has, the more shocking and repulsive they are supposed to be.
My girlfriend is kind of furry tbh but I think itās cute. I like her hair. I donāt know when or how this thing started but Iām certain that itās purely cultural. I donāt think people are naturally scandalized by body hair.
Its a common propaganda technique to depict your āenemyā as monstrous or grotesque (look at old war propaganda and you see similar shit, a famous example being DESTROY THIS MAD BRUTE) the reason for this is to dehumanize the āenemyā and make people feel less empathy when you ultimately wipe them out, because they arenāt people theyāre monsters, thats the jist of it
In young people terms, people have been depicting themselves and others as Chads and Soyjacks since we coined the term āpropagandaā this is just an advanced and older version of that meme template
Because they often do have that caricature in their head but also because āHaha I already drew myself as the handsome sigma and you as the ugly soyjack, I won.ā
if these artists drew trans folks realistically, the comic wouldn't work. they just HAVE to depict them as horrifying charicatures š¤®
this might be the first time I've been a transphobic artist portray trans men, actually. it's usually a burly hairy giant scary trans girl in pigtails and a tiny pink skirt.
It's propaganda, they're hardly trying to be humane and empathic towards the people they've actually determined to seek to make others hate. No propaganda in history has humanized their chosen scapegoats, sadly
So well said. Thatās why with our current GOP, you see them projecting the exact behaviors they promote onto everyone else that they disagree with. Itās easier to play victim and blame others for your woes than to take accountability and grow the hell up and change.
It's pretty remarkable that they've reinvented the LGBT movement as a pro-segregation movement where gay people just wanted their own special spaces, when it was a movement about social integration and gay people not being forcibly set aside.
That's really the biggest tell: they're just projecting their bigotry onto gay people.
Because the nature/reason of their oppression is similar basically. Both are looked down upon by hetero/cis society at large for not conforming to gender expectations, either by who they sleep with or how they identify.
If i remember correctly the link is from the beginning of the movement. The is a legendary picture from Stonewall riots of transwoman wrecking a policecars windshield with a purse if i remember correctly
My dad actually asked me this exact question like two weeks ago, I'mma just copy-paste the text I sent him here:
So first off, youāre correct. Sexuality and gender identity are two distinctly different things. But thatās actually a really modern understanding; people only started clearly separating those ideas in the past century or so.Ā
But for most of history, society DIDN'T make that distinction. In Western culture especially, thereās been this idea called "gender essentialism." Basically, the belief that there are only two genders, that theyāre fixed (that is, that they are 100% based on one's sex,) and that each gender is supposed to behave, dress, and desire in certain ways. This idea was often reinforced through religion, science, or both.
Modern science ā along with newer branches of gender / sexual philosophy and psychology ā has since challenged and largely discredited gender essentialism.
So if someone loved someone of the same gender, or if they expressed a gender different from what they were assigned at birth, society saw both of those things as breaking the same ārules.ā In other words, being gay and being trans were both treated as violations of traditional gender norms.
Because of that, people who weād now call lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender all ended up being lumped together and discriminated against in similar ways. Over time, that created a sense of kinship ā like, āweāre all being punished for not fitting into the same box.ā So when movements for rights and acceptance started, these groups naturally stood together and fought for each other.
Thereās also a little overlap between sexuality and gender, of course! Sexuality is about who youāre attracted to, and thatās defined in terms of gender. So while theyāre separate, they do connect at points.
Thatās why the āLGBTā label includes both. Itās less about saying āweāre all the same,ā and more about saying āweāve faced similar struggles and weāve got each otherās backs when it comes to protecting each other and challenging discriminatory governance / social treatment.ā
Tangential question: wouldn't it be more proper to write "rules". In other words[...] Rather than "rules." In other words[...] ? I would assume that anything inside the quotation doesn't quite affect the structure of the sentence, right? So I assume it would allow for a better flow to know where a sentence starts and stops. /Genq
Which one is proper depends on the conventions you're following. In American English, we place punctuation before the quotation mark (so we'd right "rules.") whereas in British English it'd be written as you proposed.
I have no idea how it would be ordered in other portions of the Anglosphere, but suspect most follow the British rules.
Oooooh, that's cool. I knew British and American English had their differences, but didn't think something so minute would have a difference like that. At least it's decently inconsequential other than some nitpicky situations (unlike something like color/colour, I've seen stuff). Thanks for the info! š
I'm actually not sure what the correct grammatical answer to that is. Whenever I have quote marks in a sentence, if the word(s) being quoted are at the end of the sentence I always place the punctuation inside of them. It reads better to me.
Like others have said, itās largely because of the shared history of being ostracized and fighting for inclusion. During the early days of the queer liberation movement, trans and gender nonconforming people were often the most outspoken and at the forefront because, unlike cis gay men and lesbians, they couldnāt really hide who they were. That led to them leading many of the watershed moments in queer history, particularly Stonewall.
LGB and T people also found common ground because, at the end of the day, conservatives just put them in the same category of āperverted freak.ā It made sense to form a coalition so as to build a community and protect one another
Gender and sexual orientation are identities that almost always go hand in hand in modern context, and they overlap significantly. Would there be sexual identities without gender?
Functionally āLGBTQ+ā is one overarching label that encompasses the whole of associated minority groups. Gay men and trans women, lesbian women and trans menāthey have historically shared community.
"Q" can also be a sexual orientation as it is either the umbrella of "queer" and/or "questioning".
Also lumped in under the "+".
Pan isn't in the acronym either, eventually under the "+".
Separating LGB from the rest doesn't make any sense. Neither historically, nor presently.
Our oppressors are the same, we fight for the same ideal.
Alao coming back to "T, 2S and more", one can be both "T" and "LGB" at the same time. Not every single trans person is straight as in attracted to the opposite end of the spectrum.
Trans people led the fight for LGBT rights, so they are a part of the community. Anyone who rejects them is themselves rejected for this reason. They are the champions of the LGBT community, and them being targeted first is very intentional.
Basically, anyone who isn't straight is put under one umbrella. You want us to tell you why? I dunno, they put us here. What it "unnatural" about the attraction I naturally feel? Yet I am labelled as "different." We are all the same, just normal people who are judged for being who we are. That's why we are allies.
Ultimately, it comes down to the primal gay code: if being you is a crime, do crime. If they treat you as an enemy, you are one ā and so we form a group. LGBT exists because people force us to justify our existence.
The same reason intersex people are part of it, they are all oppressed for mostly the same reason, which is why "lgbtq+" and "queer" mean almost the same thing. A trans person is oppressed because of the same reason gay people were and are.
Like bathroom bans, gay people were banned from bathrooms for the exact same reason trans people are now.
They are also attacked almost the same way, "we must eradicate homosexuality" and "we must eradicate transgenderism" both mean the same thing, an integral part of yourself that you have no control over must be eliminated because some people dislike it.
That and sexual orientation is also part of your identity to some degree, if you like women romantically/sexually or if you are a women are both parts of your identity, sexual orientation doesn't float around in the void along your identity, nor is it a social norm, it's part of your identity just like gender identity. There are some differences but drawing a line between the two certainly isn't something that the people oppressing either group did.
They are also mental traits that can't be changed but have people fighting for trying to get them changed anyways, conversion therapy (which has been thoroughly disproven and shown to simply cause massive trauma and is pretty much glorified physical and mental torture) is something that both gay and trans children are pushed to endure, once again for the same reason.
Gay, gender non-conforming (trans or otherwise), and kink used to be largely unified as a single movement due to them all being targeted as degenerates, sexual deviants, corruptors of the youth, etc.
So when it came to protesting or creating safe spaces and communities they tended to band together and supported each other.
You can think of it less as a group of directly related communities and more like a group of independent communities coming together in opposition to a shared oppressor
Edit: you could also say that sex/sexuality and gender, while distinct concepts, are intrinsically connected
i dont see it, actually, but i assume it connects with people being for example, a straight cis person transitioning to a gay trans person or viseversa
I've seen transphobic homosexuals, so the inverse is definitely possible.
No joke, I'm not sure if it's still around but there was a "LGB without the T" hash tag on Twitter a few years ago for LGBT individuals that were transphobic.
yes, but I excluding trans gay men just because of one adjective is.. a bit of erasing said diversity, is it not? Diversity isn't just "any and everyone possible" but just "variety," even if that "variety" is the gender identity in question
Its wildly fascinating to me how everytime i see a transphobic caricature of trans men they will have rff scars but the text will still imply they have a vagina. I get bigots arent bright but how do you go far enough to know about phalloplasty donor sites but then dont acknowledge the actual point of phalloplasty
Usually you see it in the form of recycled sexism: Trans men are "Silly little girls who got tricked into transitioning" while trans women are "Predators who transition to invade women's spaces and prey upon them", so it's a change of pace to see this.
Sadly I've seen this kind of transandrophobia before- the idea that trans men are straight women who want to "trick" gay men into having sex with us. Because OBVIOUSLY no gay man could ever REALLY want to have sex with someone with a pussy... Because clearly all trans men have those or want to have sex with them and sexuality is PURELY about genitals (and no the people saying this aren't conservatives what do you mean they're just radfems!)
(Specifically chosen because the people I have heard this from all claim to be on the radfem side of things... Except for the handful of conservatives, but they don't hide that part).
This kind of transandrophobia is so common that it took me years to come out as gay, even if I knew/suspected I was gay since I was ~12. I came out as a trans at 16-18, came out as gay at 20-21. And I was more scared to come out as trans + gay than to come out as trans because I thought I would lose my gay friends.
The idea that non-straight trans men are fetichizing gay relationships is rampant, especially because of the existence of things like yaois : I have heard so many times "girls think they're gay boys because they confuse yaois and/or BL with real life". There was a time where I hated BL for this reason, but as I grew up I realized that it was the transphobes + the fetichization of gay men in some BL's faults, but that BL shouldn't be hated as a whole. But again, it took me a LOT of time to admit that I could like stories like Heartstopper.
I believe that if you ask any gay trans man, or any trans man who has a preference for men, they will all tell you they lived something like that, because transphobia amongst gay men can be fucking brutal. But no one talks about this, excepted gay trans men themselves, because most of the queer population doesn't seem to care. I have heard too many times "cis men being transphobes is normal, what did you expect ?". Just imagine the traumatism of finding out you're gay, and everyone immediately tells you that if gay spaces don't accept you, it's normal, and why would you want to go in their spaces anyways ?
Sorry for ranting but it's so rare to see others talk about this, it needed to get out of my chest.
It has a lot to do with the inherent misogyny in society. Same logic that leads people to think bi men are just covering for being gay, and bi women are just confused and actually straight. It's centered around cis men supremacy; being admired, attractive, and the protectors.
i.e.
Trans men are understandable in their admiration for men, but obviously confused because they only have weak female minds.
Trans women are clearly a perversion of the natural order since how could a man ever truly want to be anything other than a man?
In the end it centers around how being born with a peen makes you top tier.
idk why im suprised by transphobic gay dudes. like this has never occurred to me.
but i feel like a gay dude would be the least opposed to trans dudes. this is such a diabolical post āļøšš
Bold of you to assume this was made by a gay man and not a person DISGUISED as a gay man to cause infighting within community. There's an impostor among us.
The gay community is predominantly white cis men, and now that they are the most accepted part of the lgbtq+ group they feel the need to pull the ladder up behind them to look good with the straight crowd.
They genuinely blame this on trans people btw. They think that conservatives wouldnāt have gone after them if the gay community wasnāt sheltering trans people
I'm pretty sure this comic was made/posted by the official LGB organization on Twitter (I rember this comic specifically being a minor controversy when Jk Rowling reposted it a while ago)
Ah yes the trans man who is hypermasculine yet curvaceous and got top surgery but not bottom surgery to exclusively have vaginal sex with hairless gay men, truly a tale as old as time
Iāve noticed a trend of transphobes depicting trans men with extremely curvy bodies, and sometimes massive boobs, and trans women with the most massive dicks you have ever seen. I get Itās a purposeful exaggeration to show their point but I always feels sexual
Stonetoss is the best example of this. When you see a lot of trans women drawn with big bulges it feels sexual, because repitition is important to identify an fetish
Iāve seen queer communities kick transgender people out a lot :( lots of gay men saying gay transmen are just women trying to trick men into having straight sex. Itās insane
According to the trans men I follow, youād be (not-so-) surprised at how many trans men are getting hookups on grindr left and right hand over fist lmao
Sad because it was a transgender person who first started the Pride movementā¦ they began the March for equal rights and are now being kicked out of the spaces made for all queer people.
It was a black lesbian woman, Marsha P Johnson was several streets over and joined later but became the face of the movement and did a lot to Cary it through
I love this art. Although, as a trans woman, I personally feel less like a sheep and more like a feral rabid dog that's rapidly getting more feral over the last year.
Familiar with what it's like to be othered and dehumanized
Continues to other and dehumanize
Seriously why do they always draw trans men like that? There are twinks with bbls and lip filler who look a million times more feminine than the average trans man. Also, bottom surgery exists and isn't that uncommon? Most trans men would prefer to have a penis, but access to grs isn't easy, even though this type and their ilk love to pretend kids are getting it left and right.
God im so tired. Luckily in my experience, as a bi trans man, gay men interact with have been generally respectful. But lorde, this is demoralizing.
Equality is not a goddamn pie. Just because someone else gets a slice, does not mean you're automatically getting less. Jesus, if a kindergartner can understand this concept but full-grown adults can't, it paints a real bleak picture of our future.
As a trans man it's kinda refreshing in a bad way to see a transphobic comic about transmascs. Almost r/ewphoria. It's rare to get recognition, even bad recognition.
Also why doesn't the man have clothes? And why does the syringe change positions on his leg? And why doesn't he have a neck?
This kind of shit is propaganda trying to put a wedge in LGBTQ community to isolate trans people as right-wingers current victim of choice. It's like school bullies spreading rumors about their victim to isolate them.
Oh yeah the heteronormative majority always side with trans men. If there's any group that's constantly supported, sided with, hell even just acknowledged, by the CisHet Queerphobes, it's transgender Men.
I reccomend the book "we both laughed in pleasure", collected diaries of Lou Sullivan. He was a gay trans man and activist who died of AIDS. It's one of the most meaningful books I've ever read. It's important for us in the trans community, but I think it would be even more important for cis gay men to read, to get an idea of what it was like for someone to realize he was a gay trans man, especially when there wasn't language or much presidence for this. He is the reason gay trans man were and are able to access transitional opportunities; before him, you had to be attracted to others of your birth sex.
Anyways. Please read.
And in reality it's LGBTQ people who get pushed out of fandoms. As well as having characters and media that's made with them in mind, get shunned and criticized by people like OOP.
Exclusionists will pick any minority to spit on in order to feel/seem superior. But the straight exclusionists will never accept them anyway. It's the same with people who say "lesbians are ok, but gay men are too much". Like whatever they can find to justify their bullshit. Sadly it's the same towards asexual/aromantic spectrum folks, like "I'm ok with gays and bi and all, but asexuals?" The point of lgbtq+ was to protect ourselves and unite against oppression, but some folks forgot that. It wasn't cis gay men only who fought for our rights. Kind of pathetic imo. "Look, I know you hate me, but let's hate those people together so I can feel superior"
There was one funny meme I saw for the whole "straight pride" bs, where it was a map captioned with "Marked in red are all the countries where it's illegal to be straight", and it was just all white
Really really funny that everyone else is smooth and then the trans guy is comically hairy. Also I thought this guy was gay, shouldnāt he like a hairy guy??
They're acting as if they weren't the ones excluding trans people from EVERY space, mind you trans people are even excluded from spaces associated to their sex (and not gender)
Holy shit trans men are finally getting caricatures too. Not sure how I feel about this, why do transphobes always think that trans people are biological horrors
Yeah we know a lot of gay men love to just appropriate LBGTQ spaces and see it as their own, and feel righteous enough in here to gatekeep from whoever they see unfit.
As a gay man... i was attracted to trans mens more then womens in general (maybe thats bissexual of me idk and idc tbh). People really never saw a trans person in front of them or are just biggots.
To be clear, i dont have a preference for sexual organs, but if you do, thats ok and its valid and not transphobic. Just be respectfull when declining and respect the pronouns of that person.
It's unusual that they remember trans men exist, let alone draw us in the same level of bullshit caricature as trans women. I'm almost inclined to applaud. Once. One clap.
Tho I haven't ever experienced it myself there's been two retreats exclusively for gay men that have been "attacked" (I get that terminology is extreme but it does fit here) for not being inclusive of people with vagina's and one that attendees were unhappy about being, in their eyes, a bit too inclusive. Try asking in gay male subreddits if you want details as that's about the extent of my knowledge. They will be forthcoming tho, pun intended.
Why do they always draw trans people as the most grotesque inhuman monsters ever. Is that really how they see us? š
The same reason racists drew black people like they did back in the day. Dehumanisation.
Or like how Ben Garrison draws black people now. š¤¦āāļø
I spent way too long looking up who that dude is and it is horrendous, just the 'cartoon' comparing Michelle Obama and Melania Trump alone is despicable, both racist and sexist.
Check out r/BenGarrisonCumEdits, you'll feel better :)
There is one thing I will say for Garrison. If I want to know what MAGA is thinking, heās a barometer that takes less time than hours of watching Fox News or listening to shitty podcasts. Heās why I knew January 6th wasnāt going to be just another day. His ā¦editorials? are obnoxious, deluded, and disgusting. But they shed some light into why MAGAts think certain things, or donāt react to certain stuff.
His obsession with a number of Democratic women is glaring. Michelle Obama is one. I wasnāt really familiar with the conservative conspiracy theory about her gender before him. AOC is another one he fixates on (and probably has some weird fantasies about). Conversely the way he depicts people like Melania is only dwarfed by how he draws Trump. Who looks 40 years younger and has much better hair thanā¦
https://preview.redd.it/2mh9ixzcflyf1.jpeg?width=198&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b48c063744e148836d05701414d67f6e5572e52
I've always been fascinated by the whole situation around his Trump tilting at windmills comic, especially his write up in response to the mockery it received. It says so much so succinctly about the conservative understanding of allegory and the sort of general need to destroy metaphor or even just the general concept of anything having meaning.
Papers could be written on that one.
Or how Tetsuya Ishida draws Jews on Sinfest now.
"Us VS. Them" it's how you excuse atrocities.
Currently in r/TikTokCringe there is an argument about some guy wearing "women's clothes" calling out a racist costume. You can already imagine what's being said.
Sadly yes
transphobe drawing a trans person as a normal human being challenge impossible:
Ironically enough, I donāt want to feed some stereotypes but every single trans man Iāve seen has either been the cutest twink possible or the manliest bear in the world, Iām yet to see someone in between of those two
Thatās because you donāt see the trans dudes that pass as āregularā trans dudes. I feel you on that observation, but Iāve also been surprised by hanging out with regular ass dudes who bring it up.
i think it's because transmascs love masculinity and are comfortable in theirs, so you get the ones who highlight their love for it so are hypermasculine and the ones who highlight their comfort so dress however they like.
there's also (like you said) stereotypes about how ftm people look and often online/in media we only see the cliche young, pre-t transmasc with the dyed hair and pronouns or the very masculine transgender man used for a "gotcha" in internet arguments against transphobes. and most ftm people, especially het binary trans men, don't like to discuss their gender so you could've very well seen & talked to a very neutral guy without ever knowing how he was born.
I havenāt drawn one but I have a oc whoās trans whoās in between those lines. But I get what you mean.
It's honestly wild how this is currently acceptable.
This is not far off from how the nazis depicted jews in their propaganda.
https://preview.redd.it/hbfm4eb438yf1.jpeg?width=430&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cec48bf52544543a6607ec8f85fe0d187ccda990
I was so confused and then I realized it was Dutch not German š
We hebben een serieus probleem
you can tell its dutch because its the most unserious goofy fantasy language ever
it literally reads like a made up language from a 1930s children's novel
Makes it easier to objectify and dehumanize you. These people suck.
That is what hate does with your mind. It poisons you so you can only produce poison.
And even tho we donāt know each other and probably never will, you are beautiful and so is everyone else
Dehumanisation. When you want to make your group hate another group, you demonize them and turn them into something that is not human. It's been a practice for many years, especially during war. Remember how some propoganda cartoons depicted Japanese, yellow skinned buck toothed weasels. Or how back in the day, people made racist caricatures of black people with big red lips and again, weird teeth. This is what we see here, they hate transgender people so they made a harmful depiction of them. Usually they are depicted as men who wear dresses and don't pass, and in rare cases, they depict ftm trans people as ugly women with scars everywhere like they are zombies or Frankenstein's creations.
They don't see their enemies as people, they see them as nothing more than ugly creatures or monsters who can be compared to animals or vermin, which is not a good way of thinking about another human being who is just a bit different than you.
The way they draw and use hair is really fascinating to me.
Body hair in general, especially on cis women but not only, is really stigmatized.
Frequently āgoodā characters are depicted as being clean shaven, no body hair. They may have a beard but still often no or very little body hair.
I remember seeing an old racist caricature of a black girl that had a lot of body hair on the arms.
Iām not sure if itās a fixation with youth, some association with furry animals, grooming standards or some combination of the above but itās always something I notice. The more body hair a person has, the more shocking and repulsive they are supposed to be.
My girlfriend is kind of furry tbh but I think itās cute. I like her hair. I donāt know when or how this thing started but Iām certain that itās purely cultural. I donāt think people are naturally scandalized by body hair.
As someone with a trans friend. He got the drip and I steal his whole style
honestly, accurate. My friend and I are both trans and I steal his drip all the time (if I'm not being the complete opposite of him that day)
Itās how they want people to see us. Not how the truly see us. Theyāre trying to make us monsters.
Its a common propaganda technique to depict your āenemyā as monstrous or grotesque (look at old war propaganda and you see similar shit, a famous example being DESTROY THIS MAD BRUTE) the reason for this is to dehumanize the āenemyā and make people feel less empathy when you ultimately wipe them out, because they arenāt people theyāre monsters, thats the jist of it
In young people terms, people have been depicting themselves and others as Chads and Soyjacks since we coined the term āpropagandaā this is just an advanced and older version of that meme template
https://preview.redd.it/eqh54yn3ygyf1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3db467b17115b103d4ad251249f526afb830b65
What the fuck how are you supposed to fight an army of King Kongs
Banana gunz
Because they often do have that caricature in their head but also because āHaha I already drew myself as the handsome sigma and you as the ugly soyjack, I won.ā
Self projection
To dehumanize us.
Ironically people from š³ļøāā§ļø are some of the hottest fuckers out there
yep unfortunately
Like, I searched for photos of transguys quite recently and I was confused because I saw the mannest men on our planet š
Things are getting so abstract that I do not even question their sanity anymore.
No it's not, it's how they cope with how hot you guys are
They donāt trust doctors, so they never get their eyes checked. Too woke for them.
if these artists drew trans folks realistically, the comic wouldn't work. they just HAVE to depict them as horrifying charicatures š¤®
this might be the first time I've been a transphobic artist portray trans men, actually. it's usually a burly hairy giant scary trans girl in pigtails and a tiny pink skirt.
Iāve seen a few making fun of trans men, they usually just draw them as stereotypical women but with facial hair and a bleeding chest or some shit.
It's propaganda, they're hardly trying to be humane and empathic towards the people they've actually determined to seek to make others hate. No propaganda in history has humanized their chosen scapegoats, sadly
To demonize them, dehumanizing the trans people and making you less close to them, and so being more against them
To them trans women are inbred gorillas with melons stuffed into their shirts, and then trans men just donāt exist for some reason
The mind of a transphobe should be studied
No, it's how they need us to be seen. Their psychosis requires that we be monsters, because only monsters could deserve the treatment they give us.
Ironically doing what theyāre saying the trans man is doing by making the comic
Bigots always see themselves as the victims even at the same time as they're actively oppressing others.
Just surprising how prevalent misogyny is even in the gay liberation spaces
So well said. Thatās why with our current GOP, you see them projecting the exact behaviors they promote onto everyone else that they disagree with. Itās easier to play victim and blame others for your woes than to take accountability and grow the hell up and change.
It's pretty remarkable that they've reinvented the LGBT movement as a pro-segregation movement where gay people just wanted their own special spaces, when it was a movement about social integration and gay people not being forcibly set aside.
That's really the biggest tell: they're just projecting their bigotry onto gay people.
Friendly fire will not be tolerated
TERFS imma right?
jokes aside, why is LGBT+ only one community? like what's the link between sexual orientation (LGB) and identity (T+)
Because the nature/reason of their oppression is similar basically. Both are looked down upon by hetero/cis society at large for not conforming to gender expectations, either by who they sleep with or how they identify.
If i remember correctly the link is from the beginning of the movement. The is a legendary picture from Stonewall riots of transwoman wrecking a policecars windshield with a purse if i remember correctly
because the two have actively been prosecuted by the same people and have actively fought for eachother's rights.
My dad actually asked me this exact question like two weeks ago, I'mma just copy-paste the text I sent him here:
So first off, youāre correct. Sexuality and gender identity are two distinctly different things. But thatās actually a really modern understanding; people only started clearly separating those ideas in the past century or so.Ā
But for most of history, society DIDN'T make that distinction. In Western culture especially, thereās been this idea called "gender essentialism." Basically, the belief that there are only two genders, that theyāre fixed (that is, that they are 100% based on one's sex,) and that each gender is supposed to behave, dress, and desire in certain ways. This idea was often reinforced through religion, science, or both.
Modern science ā along with newer branches of gender / sexual philosophy and psychology ā has since challenged and largely discredited gender essentialism.
So if someone loved someone of the same gender, or if they expressed a gender different from what they were assigned at birth, society saw both of those things as breaking the same ārules.ā In other words, being gay and being trans were both treated as violations of traditional gender norms.
Because of that, people who weād now call lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender all ended up being lumped together and discriminated against in similar ways. Over time, that created a sense of kinship ā like, āweāre all being punished for not fitting into the same box.ā So when movements for rights and acceptance started, these groups naturally stood together and fought for each other.
Thereās also a little overlap between sexuality and gender, of course! Sexuality is about who youāre attracted to, and thatās defined in terms of gender. So while theyāre separate, they do connect at points.
Thatās why the āLGBTā label includes both. Itās less about saying āweāre all the same,ā and more about saying āweāve faced similar struggles and weāve got each otherās backs when it comes to protecting each other and challenging discriminatory governance / social treatment.ā
Tangential question: wouldn't it be more proper to write "rules". In other words[...] Rather than "rules." In other words[...] ? I would assume that anything inside the quotation doesn't quite affect the structure of the sentence, right? So I assume it would allow for a better flow to know where a sentence starts and stops. /Genq
Which one is proper depends on the conventions you're following. In American English, we place punctuation before the quotation mark (so we'd right "rules.") whereas in British English it'd be written as you proposed.
I have no idea how it would be ordered in other portions of the Anglosphere, but suspect most follow the British rules.
Oooooh, that's cool. I knew British and American English had their differences, but didn't think something so minute would have a difference like that. At least it's decently inconsequential other than some nitpicky situations (unlike something like color/colour, I've seen stuff). Thanks for the info! š
I'm actually not sure what the correct grammatical answer to that is. Whenever I have quote marks in a sentence, if the word(s) being quoted are at the end of the sentence I always place the punctuation inside of them. It reads better to me.
Oki doki, it's the one part of English grammar I can't quite figure out yet, so I was wondering if you knew. But thanks for answering anyways! :3
Idk exactly but I think it's based in shared history.
If you work together it's harder to oppress you.
Like others have said, itās largely because of the shared history of being ostracized and fighting for inclusion. During the early days of the queer liberation movement, trans and gender nonconforming people were often the most outspoken and at the forefront because, unlike cis gay men and lesbians, they couldnāt really hide who they were. That led to them leading many of the watershed moments in queer history, particularly Stonewall.
LGB and T people also found common ground because, at the end of the day, conservatives just put them in the same category of āperverted freak.ā It made sense to form a coalition so as to build a community and protect one another
Gender and sexual orientation are identities that almost always go hand in hand in modern context, and they overlap significantly. Would there be sexual identities without gender?
Functionally āLGBTQ+ā is one overarching label that encompasses the whole of associated minority groups. Gay men and trans women, lesbian women and trans menāthey have historically shared community.
Itās oppression based on sexuality and gender is connected to sexuality.
Isn't "A" a sexual orientation?
Yet it is lumped under the "+".
"Q" can also be a sexual orientation as it is either the umbrella of "queer" and/or "questioning".
Also lumped in under the "+".
Pan isn't in the acronym either, eventually under the "+".
Separating LGB from the rest doesn't make any sense. Neither historically, nor presently.
Our oppressors are the same, we fight for the same ideal.
Alao coming back to "T, 2S and more", one can be both "T" and "LGB" at the same time. Not every single trans person is straight as in attracted to the opposite end of the spectrum.
Trans people led the fight for LGBT rights, so they are a part of the community. Anyone who rejects them is themselves rejected for this reason. They are the champions of the LGBT community, and them being targeted first is very intentional.
Basically, anyone who isn't straight is put under one umbrella. You want us to tell you why? I dunno, they put us here. What it "unnatural" about the attraction I naturally feel? Yet I am labelled as "different." We are all the same, just normal people who are judged for being who we are. That's why we are allies.
Ultimately, it comes down to the primal gay code: if being you is a crime, do crime. If they treat you as an enemy, you are one ā and so we form a group. LGBT exists because people force us to justify our existence.
The same reason intersex people are part of it, they are all oppressed for mostly the same reason, which is why "lgbtq+" and "queer" mean almost the same thing. A trans person is oppressed because of the same reason gay people were and are.
Like bathroom bans, gay people were banned from bathrooms for the exact same reason trans people are now.
They are also attacked almost the same way, "we must eradicate homosexuality" and "we must eradicate transgenderism" both mean the same thing, an integral part of yourself that you have no control over must be eliminated because some people dislike it.
That and sexual orientation is also part of your identity to some degree, if you like women romantically/sexually or if you are a women are both parts of your identity, sexual orientation doesn't float around in the void along your identity, nor is it a social norm, it's part of your identity just like gender identity. There are some differences but drawing a line between the two certainly isn't something that the people oppressing either group did.
They are also mental traits that can't be changed but have people fighting for trying to get them changed anyways, conversion therapy (which has been thoroughly disproven and shown to simply cause massive trauma and is pretty much glorified physical and mental torture) is something that both gay and trans children are pushed to endure, once again for the same reason.
Gay, gender non-conforming (trans or otherwise), and kink used to be largely unified as a single movement due to them all being targeted as degenerates, sexual deviants, corruptors of the youth, etc. So when it came to protesting or creating safe spaces and communities they tended to band together and supported each other.
You can think of it less as a group of directly related communities and more like a group of independent communities coming together in opposition to a shared oppressor
Edit: you could also say that sex/sexuality and gender, while distinct concepts, are intrinsically connected
Simple. A bigot who says a trans woman is a man is necessarily also going to be homophobic towards her straight boyfriend. You can't
i dont see it, actually, but i assume it connects with people being for example, a straight cis person transitioning to a gay trans person or viseversa
The āScrew you, I got mineā contingent has been a plague for decades now. https://www.kqed.org/arts/13976295/1970s-gay-transgender-rights-movement-san-francisco-pride
I've seen transphobic homosexuals, so the inverse is definitely possible.
No joke, I'm not sure if it's still around but there was a "LGB without the T" hash tag on Twitter a few years ago for LGBT individuals that were transphobic.
Yeah, cause nothing erases diversity like *checks notes* more diversity.
No you donāt understand, we can only give one minority rights at a time! Rights are a zero sum game, after all
Not to be pedantic, but the point of a gay men's group is actually to have significantly less diversity than the general populace.
yes, but I excluding trans gay men just because of one adjective is.. a bit of erasing said diversity, is it not? Diversity isn't just "any and everyone possible" but just "variety," even if that "variety" is the gender identity in question
They're not arguing for that I think, just literally being pedantic about the diversity part
Its wildly fascinating to me how everytime i see a transphobic caricature of trans men they will have rff scars but the text will still imply they have a vagina. I get bigots arent bright but how do you go far enough to know about phalloplasty donor sites but then dont acknowledge the actual point of phalloplasty
it's simple. dick donation
It's not everyday you see transphobia towards trans men.
Usually you see it in the form of recycled sexism: Trans men are "Silly little girls who got tricked into transitioning" while trans women are "Predators who transition to invade women's spaces and prey upon them", so it's a change of pace to see this.
Sadly I've seen this kind of transandrophobia before- the idea that trans men are straight women who want to "trick" gay men into having sex with us. Because OBVIOUSLY no gay man could ever REALLY want to have sex with someone with a pussy... Because clearly all trans men have those or want to have sex with them and sexuality is PURELY about genitals (and no the people saying this aren't conservatives what do you mean they're just radfems!)
(Specifically chosen because the people I have heard this from all claim to be on the radfem side of things... Except for the handful of conservatives, but they don't hide that part).
This kind of transandrophobia is so common that it took me years to come out as gay, even if I knew/suspected I was gay since I was ~12. I came out as a trans at 16-18, came out as gay at 20-21. And I was more scared to come out as trans + gay than to come out as trans because I thought I would lose my gay friends.
The idea that non-straight trans men are fetichizing gay relationships is rampant, especially because of the existence of things like yaois : I have heard so many times "girls think they're gay boys because they confuse yaois and/or BL with real life". There was a time where I hated BL for this reason, but as I grew up I realized that it was the transphobes + the fetichization of gay men in some BL's faults, but that BL shouldn't be hated as a whole. But again, it took me a LOT of time to admit that I could like stories like Heartstopper.
I believe that if you ask any gay trans man, or any trans man who has a preference for men, they will all tell you they lived something like that, because transphobia amongst gay men can be fucking brutal. But no one talks about this, excepted gay trans men themselves, because most of the queer population doesn't seem to care. I have heard too many times "cis men being transphobes is normal, what did you expect ?". Just imagine the traumatism of finding out you're gay, and everyone immediately tells you that if gay spaces don't accept you, it's normal, and why would you want to go in their spaces anyways ?
Sorry for ranting but it's so rare to see others talk about this, it needed to get out of my chest.
It has a lot to do with the inherent misogyny in society. Same logic that leads people to think bi men are just covering for being gay, and bi women are just confused and actually straight. It's centered around cis men supremacy; being admired, attractive, and the protectors.
i.e. Trans men are understandable in their admiration for men, but obviously confused because they only have weak female minds. Trans women are clearly a perversion of the natural order since how could a man ever truly want to be anything other than a man?
In the end it centers around how being born with a peen makes you top tier.
kinda r/ewphoria except there's no euphoria
It is every day itās just not as common in the form of a comic
Yknow at least they're being somewhat creative for once, there's always a silver lining! /j
it almost makes me feel seen lmfao
idk why im suprised by transphobic gay dudes. like this has never occurred to me.
but i feel like a gay dude would be the least opposed to trans dudes. this is such a diabolical post āļøšš
The ask gay bros subreddit is unironically like this post unfortunately. At least the last time I was there )-:
Yeah, I was going to make a joke about that sub. Itās utter shit.
Its actually not that uncommon, especially online. Theres a lot of gay spaces that value quote sexist and transphobic ideals
No I'm aware, like I knew lesbians have huge terf veins. Just jarring to see trans dudes getting the heat
Most lesbians are not TERFs. JK Rowling is the TERF queen and she's straight.
Bold of you to assume this was made by a gay man and not a person DISGUISED as a gay man to cause infighting within community. There's an impostor among us.
Holy shit I didnt think of that... do you think this person vented?
Many cis gays and lesbians are transphobic. Nothing new, sadly.
The gay community is predominantly white cis men, and now that they are the most accepted part of the lgbtq+ group they feel the need to pull the ladder up behind them to look good with the straight crowd.
Someone felt so proud to finally be able to use the F slur in a "progressive" way.
fuck the "LGB" / "drop the T" crowd, honestly
Their reward for their collaboration and betrayal against the community
https://preview.redd.it/sebhvstjf5yf1.jpeg?width=495&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92e199ab0ca8bfb30e11a42809ca71e5e71a31f9
I'm tired boss
I know, but this shit isn't gonna change anytime soon
Be the change you want to see
becomes gayer
They genuinely blame this on trans people btw. They think that conservatives wouldnāt have gone after them if the gay community wasnāt sheltering trans people
Disturbing levels of deluded, the conseratives would love getting rid of anyone who didn't behave heteronormatively.
*votes for the wolves that eat faces*
-"noooo why did the wolves eat my face??"
"B-but I didn't think the leopards would eat MY face!"
[additional info no one asked for:]
I'm pretty sure this comic was made/posted by the official LGB organization on Twitter (I rember this comic specifically being a minor controversy when Jk Rowling reposted it a while ago)
Why does he have a donor scar for phalloplasty yet has a vagina according to the comic? Damn can't even get that right.
It's LGBT. Not "just the cis gay men".
There are unironically gay people who want it to just be āLGBā instead of āLGBTQ+ā
And then there are even more radical mfers who hate Bi people for various reasons so to those mfers its just āLGā
Of all the things that never happened, this never happened the most
wait, WAIT, THEY HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED TRANS MEN EXIST? UHHHH? THEY EVEN PUT BODY HAIR ON THEM???
50% chance a straight dude made this, 50% chance a log cabin republican made this
Ah yes the trans man who is hypermasculine yet curvaceous and got top surgery but not bottom surgery to exclusively have vaginal sex with hairless gay men, truly a tale as old as time
Iāve noticed a trend of transphobes depicting trans men with extremely curvy bodies, and sometimes massive boobs, and trans women with the most massive dicks you have ever seen. I get Itās a purposeful exaggeration to show their point but I always feels sexual
Stonetoss is the best example of this. When you see a lot of trans women drawn with big bulges it feels sexual, because repitition is important to identify an fetish
i'll take things that never happened for 500
Iāve seen queer communities kick transgender people out a lot :( lots of gay men saying gay transmen are just women trying to trick men into having straight sex. Itās insane
yeah. i'm trans myself and I've experienced this. it's a fear of something that doesn't even exist and it's so tiring
we're not trying to "trick" anyone, or "steal" anything, we're literally just trying to live and exist like everyone else does
Iām so sorry thatās happened to you, itās a sad time when a community built to protect people turns in on itself :(
Going once
Going twice!
According to the trans men I follow, youād be (not-so-) surprised at how many trans men are getting hookups on grindr left and right hand over fist lmao
Can confirm lol
Sad because it was a transgender person who first started the Pride movementā¦ they began the March for equal rights and are now being kicked out of the spaces made for all queer people.
The LGBTQ movement was basically kick started by a trans person, wasn't it?
StormƩ DeLarverie was a biracial butch lesbian who also happened to be a Drag King.
I think they were talking about Marsha P Johnson.
My bad, I was thinking about stonewall
Stonewall was.
It was a black lesbian woman, Marsha P Johnson was several streets over and joined later but became the face of the movement and did a lot to Cary it through
https://preview.redd.it/y88l8meb36yf1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c40048f6dd1356d7a66661e50950d0c78548f9dc
https://preview.redd.it/fdpy0vvgm5yf1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47959f4443df46121a7d2cd1c2d5ad19213304e5
i love these kinds of art so much.
https://preview.redd.it/a9fs71ci09yf1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7745007235a6305022a932d9a6ee2e9c1f10ffd9
do you have any sites or siggestions of where to see more art like this? I love it too istg
i usually use pinterest, but sadly not every pin has credits so i do reverse search to find the original source.
I love this art. Although, as a trans woman, I personally feel less like a sheep and more like a feral rabid dog that's rapidly getting more feral over the last year.
Seriously why do they always draw trans men like that? There are twinks with bbls and lip filler who look a million times more feminine than the average trans man. Also, bottom surgery exists and isn't that uncommon? Most trans men would prefer to have a penis, but access to grs isn't easy, even though this type and their ilk love to pretend kids are getting it left and right.
God im so tired. Luckily in my experience, as a bi trans man, gay men interact with have been generally respectful. But lorde, this is demoralizing.
LGB without the T people are so fucking stupid like dude, you are not safe from the conservative crowd
Always love our representation. They know that we are so sexy and beautiful, that they need to portray us like this, otherwise they'll fall in love ~~
the way transphobes draw trans people reminds me of how racist comics would draw black people and how misogynists would draw feminists.
Damn i was wondering where this sub was, it has been quiet for a long while.
The sub is back? W?
They want to divide between LGB and T
I'm starting to wonder if they've ever even seen a trans person
Equality is not a goddamn pie. Just because someone else gets a slice, does not mean you're automatically getting less. Jesus, if a kindergartner can understand this concept but full-grown adults can't, it paints a real bleak picture of our future.
This guy just reallly wanted to use the F-slur, huh?
As a trans man it's kinda refreshing in a bad way to see a transphobic comic about transmascs. Almost r/ewphoria. It's rare to get recognition, even bad recognition.
Also why doesn't the man have clothes? And why does the syringe change positions on his leg? And why doesn't he have a neck?
lol this shit is fkn asinine
This is more about the subreddit, but why were there a 1 month gap between this post and the last one? Was this sub restricted or something
holy shit the sub is back
what happened?
This kind of shit is propaganda trying to put a wedge in LGBTQ community to isolate trans people as right-wingers current victim of choice. It's like school bullies spreading rumors about their victim to isolate them.
Oh yeah the heteronormative majority always side with trans men. If there's any group that's constantly supported, sided with, hell even just acknowledged, by the CisHet Queerphobes, it's transgender Men.
I reccomend the book "we both laughed in pleasure", collected diaries of Lou Sullivan. He was a gay trans man and activist who died of AIDS. It's one of the most meaningful books I've ever read. It's important for us in the trans community, but I think it would be even more important for cis gay men to read, to get an idea of what it was like for someone to realize he was a gay trans man, especially when there wasn't language or much presidence for this. He is the reason gay trans man were and are able to access transitional opportunities; before him, you had to be attracted to others of your birth sex. Anyways. Please read.
And in reality it's LGBTQ people who get pushed out of fandoms. As well as having characters and media that's made with them in mind, get shunned and criticized by people like OOP.
Was ready to hate, then saw it was this sub
Exclusionists will pick any minority to spit on in order to feel/seem superior. But the straight exclusionists will never accept them anyway. It's the same with people who say "lesbians are ok, but gay men are too much". Like whatever they can find to justify their bullshit. Sadly it's the same towards asexual/aromantic spectrum folks, like "I'm ok with gays and bi and all, but asexuals?" The point of lgbtq+ was to protect ourselves and unite against oppression, but some folks forgot that. It wasn't cis gay men only who fought for our rights. Kind of pathetic imo. "Look, I know you hate me, but let's hate those people together so I can feel superior"
Straight and cis people are so oppressed š¢ they're only 98% of the population š¢š¢
There was one funny meme I saw for the whole "straight pride" bs, where it was a map captioned with "Marked in red are all the countries where it's illegal to be straight", and it was just all white
https://preview.redd.it/wqqmpua8tgyf1.png?width=792&format=png&auto=webp&s=057447ec4abfaf1e1c1d87885991f18d5e7886f9
LGB hating on T
Really really funny that everyone else is smooth and then the trans guy is comically hairy. Also I thought this guy was gay, shouldnāt he like a hairy guy??
Theres like a 90% chance this was made by a straight dude lol
They're acting as if they weren't the ones excluding trans people from EVERY space, mind you trans people are even excluded from spaces associated to their sex (and not gender)
Holy shit trans men are finally getting caricatures too. Not sure how I feel about this, why do transphobes always think that trans people are biological horrors
This artist is insanely comfortable throwing around slursā¦..
Notice how it's a space for gay men specifixally.
Yeah we know a lot of gay men love to just appropriate LBGTQ spaces and see it as their own, and feel righteous enough in here to gatekeep from whoever they see unfit.
YESSS THE SUB IS BACK
well... we do exist. i try to be respectful of other people's spaces.
im tired
As a trans guy im honoured we're being represented in the hate circles instead of trans women this time. They're getting more inclusive!
As a gay man... i was attracted to trans mens more then womens in general (maybe thats bissexual of me idk and idc tbh). People really never saw a trans person in front of them or are just biggots.
To be clear, i dont have a preference for sexual organs, but if you do, thats ok and its valid and not transphobic. Just be respectfull when declining and respect the pronouns of that person.
There would be no LGB without the T.
I know one gay guy like this. Whenever I bring up anything about trans rights, he's always has something dumb to say.
Lgb without the t is one of the stupidest things to exist
saying that there were no safe spaces for queer people in the 80's is a massive lie
Transphobic cis gay people have a lot of nerve to say this shit when without trans people their mere existence wouldn't have been legalized anywhere
I guess maybe Iām too young/naive but I am not sure what is going on hereā¦..
They're implying gay trans people are just straight people trying to take up space in the community
LGB without the T ahh shit
What?!?
Imposter among us
It's unusual that they remember trans men exist, let alone draw us in the same level of bullshit caricature as trans women. I'm almost inclined to applaud. Once. One clap.
How I feel as an asexual in LGBT spaces.
rare trans man sighting in bigot comic
"OH NO! THERE ARE MEN IN MENS SPACES!"
Transphobes trying not to draw a trans person as an horrifying monster, IMPOSSIBLE CHALLENGE:
ngl the trans wojack lowkey cute
Not trying to rock any boats but to be fair this is not a fictional scenario. Doesn't excuse the ridiculous drawing tho
wdym?
Tho I haven't ever experienced it myself there's been two retreats exclusively for gay men that have been "attacked" (I get that terminology is extreme but it does fit here) for not being inclusive of people with vagina's and one that attendees were unhappy about being, in their eyes, a bit too inclusive. Try asking in gay male subreddits if you want details as that's about the extent of my knowledge. They will be forthcoming tho, pun intended.