I’ll be honest here. I’m sad RA wasn’t given more time because I genuinely liked the direction we were going in - we press well and are hard to score against. The goals and chances saw an uptick as well. The results speak for themselves when we feel shortchanged at 6th position.
Where I feel he lost the plot is the press conference post Leeds. Generally, most of his media interactions have been emotional. It was bound to catch up with him because he simply hadn’t built up the goodwill, basis the results yet, to go on emotional rants every other week. The club looks for stability not just in results but with the manager’s demeanour as well. I can only imagine how comments like “worst squad in history” etc would have gone down with the squad.
I genuinely feel that given time, he would have turned the tide for us and it’s a mistake for us to switch systems after heavily investing in a 3-4-3 but RA did himself no favours going on one rant too many.
Considering we've shipped more goals than every team outside the bottom six and have only kept two clean sheets all season I wouldn't say we're terribly hard to score against.
I agree that Amorim effectively talked himself out of the job, though. The results haven't been stellar, but if he'd shown a modicum of self control any time a microphone was in front of him he'd at least have gotten until the end of the season.
So the new manager should get relegated his first season so if they win the championship in his 2nd it will be seen as an improvement?
There's a probability of missing out on champions league after spending 500m the last 2 seasons. It's unacceptable to still be unable to beat Wolves at home.
Let’s not make arguments for the sake of it. Progress is relative and it makes more sense to compare with last year.
There is absolutely no point in comparing this present team’s performance against the United of old (and by old I mean Ole/Mourinho, not even Sir Alex) because that’s how far we’re behind at the moment.
It’s not “unacceptable” to draw at Wolves/Leeds with the squad absentees we have, it’s just disappointing. Stop expecting miracles and adjust your expectations. The club is about to switch the style of play mid season again so a European finish is much harder now with Amorim gone. Less Gary Neville, more logic please 🙏🏼
Expecting miracles is expecting to beat a team who had 2 points from 18 games now.
Okay.
Yeah the style of play was so good. European finish was slipping away with recent results anyway, not that anything below 5th and Champions League I'd be putting any stock in.
Remember that this is the same set of players who couldn't get over the line at fucking Grimsby with Bruno playing every minute... Minus Bruno, Mbeumo, Amad and Mount! Sesko and Cunha have been shit but they are new, but the rest of them are beyond redemption at this point.
It's amazing the level that people bought into his gaslighting.
Suffering, worst team ever etc. I didn't hear Klopp or Pep doing this when they took over. 4th place had people ridiculing Pep his first season and Klopp using a draw to build team unity is still brought up.
This guy came in and made enemies of half the squad which resulted in an all time bad run. People still think he was right. It's insane.
Sorry, but in what world are we 'hard to score against'? No one above 15th has conceded more than us and we've kept only 2 clean sheets all season. It's the exact opposite; we've dropped so many points because of our inability to prevent teams scoring.
It's a cult. These people believe high xG in 2 or 3 games against Wolves and Brighton shows they are an attacking juggernaut 3rd in the league in scoring when there are 4 or 5 teams within 3 goals of them and with much better defensive records. When you play an attacking midfielder as one of your centre mids you will have more chances and less control.
To be honest, the constant media scrutiny and the ex player’s comments irritated me. I can imagine this particular outburst to mean that he would change his system only on his own terms.
Anyway, it’s another rebuild abandoned. Another manager cast aside. All I care about now is watching my favourite players on the pitch. No point speculating about league position /titles etc.
I'd argue that media scrutiny and ex-players comes with the job description. Every other United manager in modern history has had to manage shit-reporting on the club. If Amorim didn't know that, he wasn't suitable for the job. If Amorim couldn't handle that, then he wasn't fit for the job.
And in terms of ex-players, being really blunt, they've earned the right. Some of those ex-players dedicated their entire careers to United and won everything with United. And so, for example, show me one person who is more entitled to comment than, say, Paul Scholes or Gary Neville. I don't always agree with them - but no one is more red than those two (in particular).
And as for the rebuild being abandoned - it needed abandoning. No manager, I don't care who they are, can be *that* inflexible when it comes to formation and expect to win titles. And that's what we should be about: winning the PL, and the Champions Leagues. Nothing less.
There’s a large difference between managing shit reporting on the club, and having to deal with management that seem to buy into the pressure from the media
That's fair. But the way to counteract that is to win football matches and not say stupid shit. Amorim wasn't great at either of those two things. Alas.
It baffles me. I understood the cult of Ole, hell, I was a part-time member myself. I totally get the cult of C7. And I kinda get the cult of Mourinho. But Amorim?
I do wonder if some supporters have forgotten that the point of kicky-ball is to actually win.
Why did he need to rebuild? There were players underperforming, that doesn't mean they are useless. He had his few weeks of experimentation telling us that he would find roles that players worked in. The ones that worked and were looking good were Zirkzee, Rashford, Amad and Bruno. Zirkzee immediately dropped, Rashford shipped out. Amad played RWB and another similar player signed in the summer and Bruno moved back to CM where he struggles and a player who already had told much responsibility given more.
Half the rest of the squad made enemies of and morale at an all time low he calls them the worst ever Manchester United team as if they couldn't contribute to being better than 15th. We were supposed to believe that being 3 points off top 4 is this big achievement now when he took over a team 4 points off top 4.
I’d go back as far as his pop at the youngsters. A lot of people excused his comments as more of a translation issue, but if you take them at face value, they weren’t great comments to make. Not for a club that loves to invest and promote its youth. A club that’s proud of its record of having at least one academy player in every match day squad.
I think that’s the point concerns started to grow. And just to add, we aren’t hard to score against, we just make fewer errors at the back. He’d still be in a job if we could rack up some clean sheets.
Really? Why are we just assuming the youth players are ready when the manager is clearly more qualified to judge this?
Take note of the situation RA found himself in. The academy graduates like Rashford, Garnacho, Mainoo etc had attitude issues. It made sense to keep the youth players’ entitlement in check and remind them what it takes to be a part of this team.
I'm pretty sure that at that press conference Amorim was already in the "fuck it" mood.
And you can see how people are trying to say that the decision to fire him was already done before the game because of the "fight" between Amorim and Wilcox.
I know it’s your opinion but what makes you feel we are hard to score against? We haven’t kept a clean sheet away in 15 games and from the top 14 teams in the league right now we have conceded the most?
My opinion is based on the fact that we’ve stopped conceding chances at the rate we were last year. The eye test supports it. Yes we’ve struggled to keep clean sheets but we don’t look as vulnerable at the back.
As you rightly pointed out, it’s my opinion but I feel more often than not, we’ve conceded against the run of play in comparison to last year when it seemed inevitable. We’ve all felt a sense of calm at the back since Lammens arrived but some credit is due to the coach as well.
We concede a huge amount of goals though? Not disagreeing completely with come of your points, but we have kept 9 clean sheets in Amorims entire tenure.
We also haven’t really spent for his system if you look at the players we’ve brought in. None of them are of the profile he would need to play how he envisioned. Maybe our forwards like to invert, but that’s about it. I can sympathise with his frustrations, but his outburst and stating he was going to leave on Friday are signs of an individual who needs to mature, and I hope he does for his future roles.
Well I agree, But he spoke the truth. How can it be right for someone to get sacked for speaking the truth? If the board had been competent we would have been in the top 4 right now and amorim would have still been our manager. He made just 3 signings in the summer, all of them attackers, he didn't get any midfielders or wing backs that he would prefer, what else is he supposed to do he isn't Harry Potter.
You do realise that these very people paid him his salary? Just in the same way, he didn’t tolerate Garnacho’s outbursts, the guys at the top won’t put up with his shit.
How about you try this at your workplace and see how long do you last?
I mean its fairly simple concept that some fans are not able to comprehend. imagine turning up to work every week and actively insulting your bosses, staff, customers, while doing an historically record breakingly bad job until you're paid millions of pounds to get fuck off. pour one out for one of life's great grifters
I don’t even know if you can call him a grifter. He’s been very honest about everything. If anything you have to blame the fans for turning the guy into a prophet. The guy shit on the academy players, called his team the worst in United history and had a bust up with owners and fans created excuses for him at every hurdle. It was always there to be seen but people treated him like a messiah out of delusional desperation.
Yeah all the players were terrible and there was no way the man hired to manage them could do anything about that. Just make enemies of half of them and play the other half out of position until results get so bad you're getting dumped out of the Carabao cup to Grimsby and still don't get sacked for throwing them under the bus.
We signed two number 10’s because Amorim wanted to play Bruno in CM. Amorim wasn’t forced to play Bruno deeper, he wanted to. In Amorim’s system he needs two 10’s. We had to buy a striker too, and a goalkeeper, and we still approached Brighton for Baleba but they quoted us a ‘fuck off’ price.
He also got a left wing back in January, and decided to play Amad at RWB.
Mate you can speak the truth, but when you go on a 5 minute tirade during your post match presser you might as well just pack your bags and leave yourself. Because no board in the history of football is going to accept that and let you stick around.
The decision was made before the Leeds game. His press conference has no relation except just being an excuse to absolve themselves of any blame/accountability and instead dump it all on the manager even though the manager was misled by these people.
He was close to the ucl places, shouldnt have been sacked. The fact that so many draws came against lower teams and they are 6th means the potential to be comfortable in the top 4 and close to Man City was there.
Only attackers and a goalkeeper were bought. They needed a striker and a goalkeeper because the previous ones were underperforming, they let go of too many attackers so needed to replace them with mbeumo and cunha and sesko.
No wingbacks(needed for back 3) and no midfielder was bought in the summer window. A midfielder was needed no matter the system. No centre back was bought as well. The team is scoring a lot unlike last season, the only thing is conceding goals which could’ve been improved even with one signing.
Perhaps if a midfielder was bought instead of an attacker, Bruno could’ve played in the front 3.
He wanted to join in the summer but was forced to come mid season if he wanted to be at Man Utd. He said he needed time and the team needed to suffer hence the poor results and position last season. Having a striker who wasn’t clinical and a goalkeeper who was letting in too much didn’t help.
There is no thing such as player power this time unlike the previous times.
If the sacking was because of results, it wouldn’t be when he’s 6th. This is clearly a power issue and the board wants to control the manager or to be more appropriate head coach.
A head coach is someone who focuses on the players he already has and has a lesser role so don’t expect the next one to make the club competitive again. If there’s any change in the culture, the board has to do it because they are the one who have this power.
He was 6th which is a major improvement from last season. Arteta is proof that if you want to truly rebuild, it takes a long time and some suffering. Amorim stuck by his system and what gave him success unlike ten hag who abandoned what made him successful. Unless the club and fans have some patience, the head coach cannot be successful and the cycle of sacking and rehiring would keep on happening.
Backing him would’ve been filling in the rest of the positions transfers were needed and if the club wasn’t top 4 comfortably then that would be a good reason to sack him. However with this, there would be a good foundation for the next head coach and not many new players would need to be bought if the board does the right thing and gets someone who can use the players available. A process wouldn’t then be needed because the players would already be there and so fans wouldn’t need to be patient, it would be a slot situation where minor adjustments would be the only thing needed.
Perhaps you would say he’s a few points from mid table however he is also a few from top 4, get even one signing in that he wanted instead of undermining the head coach (or manager whichever he was) and top 4 would be comfortable, the vibes around the club would be good too and the fans could be more optimistic.
Now he’s been sacked so the last 12 months have been a waste and some of the players may not fit a back 4 so they may have to be sub options competing with others who they were starting with. If a good foundation and culture was set by Amorim, that’s the only benefit but we don’t know if that will regress due to what the board just did.
Yep, it’s baffling to sack him now when we genuinely look like top 5 contenders, so this decision is definitely not based on sporting merit. We were more likely to get European football with him given we’re halfway in to the season with a new system.
Just like the coach, I now want to give the leadership the benefit of the doubt as well.
Let’s see what happens, never a dull moment with this club, eh?
Honestly I would’ve given him till the end of the season. We’re 6th place and only 3 points off top 4. That’s a huge improvement, and our play has been much better as well
Wait, people actually took this quote seriously? In the 2 years under INEOS there has been multiple occasions where the board say something and are doing the complete opposite. I remember when they first joined and they were gassing up ETH for like 2 months but behind the scenes they were interviewing managers to potentially replace him. Hell even last season all the talk when Erik got sacked was about Xavi, and every journalist around the club felt that was INEOS’s main target, and then out of no where Amorims name popped up and he was our manager with in two days. But the only reason Ratcliff even said this shit was to attempt to get pressure off Ruben’s back, because at this point Ruben hadn’t even won back too back games and we came off a loss to Grimsby.
To be fair that quote remains true whether its based in reality or not, they were giving him time to prove himself despite dog shit results. Him getting the boot was just down to a clash of giant egos and his total lack of adaptability to his system.
I think the plan was 3 years. And I think that was the full intention.
The sacking wasn't due to on the field, if was to due with his meltdowns. Ruben literally verbally attacked Wilcox, the data team, recruitment and Vivell in his press conference. Then said his role is Manager not coach (defining his own job role) and saying something that he wasn't.
He had discussions with these guys daily, and then attacked them in a presser. Which of course is what coaches do when they want to be sacked.
He went into the pre conference against Leeds saying things to get sacked and said to Jamie Jackson "I don't want to talk about it" when he said is it about Wilcox he replied "I don't want to talk about it but you are very smart" then his outburst after it.
If he didn't say anything pre or post Leeds he would still have a job. He effectively said he will move on in 18 months saying "I don't want to be here", he took his 10 million payout and smiled to the press after being sacked.
This wasn't Jim not sticking to his word. This was Ruben going off the rails wanting to be sacked. And for all we know Omar and Wilcox could have asked him "are you staying" he wanted out regardless.
Work in any job, then attack HR verbally and your direct bosses Infront of colleagues on camera and see if you still have a job after it.
he's a proven liar and a scumbag, he wants to make money off us and the regeneration to help with INEOS' 18bn debt, you can never trust a billionaire he will never be on your side
People here glaze Jim ratcliffe like he’s their grandad. When they cut staff benefits and jobs of normal people these people here praised him in managing clubs funds. However they make bad management decisions all the time worth 10s of millions which can supplement like 100 staff worth of wages for a year but no they’d rather cut benefits of the staff because of their own incompetence
He's 73. He'll be dead in 10 years or at least well out of the picture, Wrexham will be champions and United will be fighting off relegation from league 1.
It looks like hypocrisy and rudderless given that recent SJR interview but, and I've been a huge supporter of RA needing time unlike previous managers under previous regimes, you can't publicly challenge your employer like that and think they won't deal with it. Unless you're Mo Salah 😉
Who really knows what goes on behind closed doors but if you take what RA said post-Leeds at face value then it appears there was a misalignment in what he believed his role and responsibilities would be and what JW and OB believed his role and responsibilities would be. Very very poor if that wasn't made clear at the recruitment stage. If it was and things had shifted, then they should have sorted it out behind closed doors.
Ultimately, right or wrong, good or bad, he's gone. I wish him the best. He's a young manager and I know he'll be a success elsewhere.
As far as we're concerned, if we're looking for a head coach, make that clear to whoever is spoken to Glasner, Ole, Southgate, Xavi, Carrick, everyone. If they're happy to operate in that narrow role they'll come to the table, if not, let's move on. But don't try and bring someone in under false pretenses then pull the rug from under their feet.
Just wasted two whole years with Ineos, the last 14 months could of been avoided with Amorim if they actually spent time thinking about the system properly the first question I had was 3 or 5 at the back is this a united formation anymore importantly do we have the players to play it . Just seems like they went for Amorim to avoid him going to city with Viana. The clubs a right mess , even upto two weeks ago when they were in for Semenyo , don’t blame him for rejecting United , but they still ignoring bringing in a midfielder first which is their biggest problem not attack . Now a compensation package is surely going to eat into the January and summer transfer budget. With Ashworth, ETH and now Amorim ineos has probably shelled out somewhere between 60-80m in compensation that’s literally Baleba money .
They got him backing in hope he gonna start showing what he capable of and reduce pressure, meanwhile he gave us awful performance in easy stint of matches and on top of that started open mouth on his unsatisfaction. The hell? When having literally nothing to show for.
Guy holds ridiculously bad stat line in PL. Got us historical losses. How you guys even pretend there conversation can be had? Good grief we got rid of this scam artist, unironically eth was god compared to that disaster, should have perhaps fire him on spot after Grimsby, but well, better now than 3 full years of that shit football.
The funniest thing is that people actually believed this. Most surprising thing to me, in all this affair, is that he was not sacked on the 1st of November, like it was expected.
When will you guys stop crying that the worst Manchester United manager in premier league history has rightfully been shown the door. He was lucky that he got the second season.
I thought all you Amorim cultists were about ‘supporting the club’?
I think the problem is Jim can't just give him time for the sake of it. Amorim has to show something back too and all he was showing us was that we are still going in circles dropping points at home in easy games. Everyone can harp on about injuries and Afcon all they want but the same results happened when we had a full squad.
Ultimately Amorim has to show that he is making progress and he wasn't, and before anyone bangs on about we are 6th, so what, that can change in 2 weeks, we are 4 points from 14th too. 1 loss can drastically change the table at the moment and if he didn't bottle so many easy games we'd be in the top 4 with some breathing space. Had we beat Wolves and 10 man Everton, like we should have, we'd be 5 points better off so we'd be 4th right now 2 points above Liverpool and thats disregarding other games we should have won.
I, for one, interpreted it a different way than everyone else I guess. I understood this to mean RA had to prove over 3 years that he was a great coach, not that he had been given 3 years unequivocally and was then going to be judged at the end.
It has seemed quite evident over his 14/15 months that he proved he wasn't/isn't a great coach, so why would they keep him on for the further 18 or so months? From his on pitch performances to his emotional off pitch explosiveness, it's pretty clear that he isn't, and wasn't going to be, a great Manchester United coach
You dont beat 2 points wolves at home you find out. I am glad he found out finally that his system is rotten and he was another fraud. Kudos here to wilcox for calling him out that 1 point at home to wolves was unacceptable. Why should they support the coach for 3 years if he has shown exactly 0 progress and evolution.
Exactly! The board says one thing, does another, and are a bunch of spineless, egoistic pricks who only sacked Amorim because he went against them, and publicly too. If he'd shut up, he'd still be around, and that sets a worrying precedent.
This was an atempt to cover up the rumors ( now no longer rumors) that higher ups have been pressuring Amorim to do what THEY want since september... good luck anyone decent coming here now that that has coem to light..... SINCE SEPTEMBER!!!
I believed Amorim that he can be the one.. but I'm not surprised he got sacked.. The audacity of Amorim. He ended 15th last season, he had 38% WR and he decides to fire shots on transfer policy after he was given players for 250m in the summer. You produced the worst season we remember and still have balls to blame others, you deserve to be sacked.
I think SJR meant it, as Amorim wasn’t sacked for results, he called out his bosses. Very different from a run of poor form. IMO he’d have been very successful long term. Sad to say he’s gone.
Amorim hired to do the job, even after a horrible season finishing 15th he's still keep the job. They're ready to supply, he get 5 new players.
What amorim did? still doing a bad job. Even worse he's 20 games in, drawing games like its a toy, and lastly 4 points away from 14th in the face of an upcoming big game like City and Arsenal.
Did he apologize? No he lashed out to the board. Of course they will get rid of him. He have the nerve to go against the board while displaying an atrocious game week in week out.
It makes sense. Like you can have shitty results for over a year or last few months. You can also hang the board out to dry in public. But you can’t be doing both of those at the same time unless getting sacked and getting a payout is exactly what you had in mind.
What's better take? He got everything to start a team since last year but can't prove even for a consistent win. Yet he ask for more player without money from UCL or UEL or any competition he failed to get in.
Do you see the table? There's like Sunderland, Brentford, Newcastle, Brighton, Fulham that only 3 points away from United. You think their squad any better than Man Utd? Absolutely not!
Some fans brag about how good amorim by looking at the stats, but refuse to acknowledge that the squad is actually better and have more potential than whatever this is now.
So you expect us to be top 4 this season, yes or no? Either way, we are 3 points away after 1 transfer window with a very thin squad. So you agree Amorim is making progress and raised our standard and expectation, yes or no? Make up your mind.
Yesss, 4th place is very achievable. How many times the team flop a chance to go up by losing or drawing this season? They can't even get past chelsea.
Liverpool on their bad day that was mocked in this sub week by week, losing so many times is now 4th with 3 wins and 2 draws. Come on now.
I’ll be honest here. I’m sad RA wasn’t given more time because I genuinely liked the direction we were going in - we press well and are hard to score against. The goals and chances saw an uptick as well. The results speak for themselves when we feel shortchanged at 6th position.
Where I feel he lost the plot is the press conference post Leeds. Generally, most of his media interactions have been emotional. It was bound to catch up with him because he simply hadn’t built up the goodwill, basis the results yet, to go on emotional rants every other week. The club looks for stability not just in results but with the manager’s demeanour as well. I can only imagine how comments like “worst squad in history” etc would have gone down with the squad.
I genuinely feel that given time, he would have turned the tide for us and it’s a mistake for us to switch systems after heavily investing in a 3-4-3 but RA did himself no favours going on one rant too many.
My 2 cents.
Considering we've shipped more goals than every team outside the bottom six and have only kept two clean sheets all season I wouldn't say we're terribly hard to score against.
I agree that Amorim effectively talked himself out of the job, though. The results haven't been stellar, but if he'd shown a modicum of self control any time a microphone was in front of him he'd at least have gotten until the end of the season.
Haha yeah. The bar is too low, though. We finished 15th last season, so it’s fair to say we’ve improved on that.
So the new manager should get relegated his first season so if they win the championship in his 2nd it will be seen as an improvement?
There's a probability of missing out on champions league after spending 500m the last 2 seasons. It's unacceptable to still be unable to beat Wolves at home.
I think everyone underestimates Wolves. They don’t play as badly as their position and results suggest. Arsenal struggled to get a win there.
Arsenal were at home and didn't struggle at all in that game. Wolves nicked an equaliser in injury time and Arsenal still got the win.
Let’s not make arguments for the sake of it. Progress is relative and it makes more sense to compare with last year.
There is absolutely no point in comparing this present team’s performance against the United of old (and by old I mean Ole/Mourinho, not even Sir Alex) because that’s how far we’re behind at the moment.
It’s not “unacceptable” to draw at Wolves/Leeds with the squad absentees we have, it’s just disappointing. Stop expecting miracles and adjust your expectations. The club is about to switch the style of play mid season again so a European finish is much harder now with Amorim gone. Less Gary Neville, more logic please 🙏🏼
Expecting miracles is expecting to beat a team who had 2 points from 18 games now.
Okay.
Yeah the style of play was so good. European finish was slipping away with recent results anyway, not that anything below 5th and Champions League I'd be putting any stock in.
Remember that this is the same set of players who couldn't get over the line at fucking Grimsby with Bruno playing every minute... Minus Bruno, Mbeumo, Amad and Mount! Sesko and Cunha have been shit but they are new, but the rest of them are beyond redemption at this point.
It's amazing the level that people bought into his gaslighting.
Suffering, worst team ever etc. I didn't hear Klopp or Pep doing this when they took over. 4th place had people ridiculing Pep his first season and Klopp using a draw to build team unity is still brought up.
This guy came in and made enemies of half the squad which resulted in an all time bad run. People still think he was right. It's insane.
On track for the worst ever defensive record.
Sorry, but in what world are we 'hard to score against'? No one above 15th has conceded more than us and we've kept only 2 clean sheets all season. It's the exact opposite; we've dropped so many points because of our inability to prevent teams scoring.
It's a cult. These people believe high xG in 2 or 3 games against Wolves and Brighton shows they are an attacking juggernaut 3rd in the league in scoring when there are 4 or 5 teams within 3 goals of them and with much better defensive records. When you play an attacking midfielder as one of your centre mids you will have more chances and less control.
The moment he declared that he’d continue to persist with three at the back regardless of results, he should have been sacked.
He was evidently out of his depth, and preferred dogma to results. His record is the proving of that.
To be honest, the constant media scrutiny and the ex player’s comments irritated me. I can imagine this particular outburst to mean that he would change his system only on his own terms.
Anyway, it’s another rebuild abandoned. Another manager cast aside. All I care about now is watching my favourite players on the pitch. No point speculating about league position /titles etc.
I'd argue that media scrutiny and ex-players comes with the job description. Every other United manager in modern history has had to manage shit-reporting on the club. If Amorim didn't know that, he wasn't suitable for the job. If Amorim couldn't handle that, then he wasn't fit for the job.
And in terms of ex-players, being really blunt, they've earned the right. Some of those ex-players dedicated their entire careers to United and won everything with United. And so, for example, show me one person who is more entitled to comment than, say, Paul Scholes or Gary Neville. I don't always agree with them - but no one is more red than those two (in particular).
And as for the rebuild being abandoned - it needed abandoning. No manager, I don't care who they are, can be *that* inflexible when it comes to formation and expect to win titles. And that's what we should be about: winning the PL, and the Champions Leagues. Nothing less.
There’s a large difference between managing shit reporting on the club, and having to deal with management that seem to buy into the pressure from the media
That's fair. But the way to counteract that is to win football matches and not say stupid shit. Amorim wasn't great at either of those two things. Alas.
He was on track for what was expected of him this season…
One way to shut out the media scrutiny is to fucking win games. How about that? Revolutionary, I know.
FFS, you're defending 12 wins in 12 months, I cannot believe the standards we have nowadays.
It baffles me. I understood the cult of Ole, hell, I was a part-time member myself. I totally get the cult of C7. And I kinda get the cult of Mourinho. But Amorim?
I do wonder if some supporters have forgotten that the point of kicky-ball is to actually win.
Why did he need to rebuild? There were players underperforming, that doesn't mean they are useless. He had his few weeks of experimentation telling us that he would find roles that players worked in. The ones that worked and were looking good were Zirkzee, Rashford, Amad and Bruno. Zirkzee immediately dropped, Rashford shipped out. Amad played RWB and another similar player signed in the summer and Bruno moved back to CM where he struggles and a player who already had told much responsibility given more.
Half the rest of the squad made enemies of and morale at an all time low he calls them the worst ever Manchester United team as if they couldn't contribute to being better than 15th. We were supposed to believe that being 3 points off top 4 is this big achievement now when he took over a team 4 points off top 4.
I’d go back as far as his pop at the youngsters. A lot of people excused his comments as more of a translation issue, but if you take them at face value, they weren’t great comments to make. Not for a club that loves to invest and promote its youth. A club that’s proud of its record of having at least one academy player in every match day squad.
I think that’s the point concerns started to grow. And just to add, we aren’t hard to score against, we just make fewer errors at the back. He’d still be in a job if we could rack up some clean sheets.
These last few games have shown that the kids are nowhere near ready though.
They probably aren’t, but you don’t lay into them.
Really? Why are we just assuming the youth players are ready when the manager is clearly more qualified to judge this?
Take note of the situation RA found himself in. The academy graduates like Rashford, Garnacho, Mainoo etc had attitude issues. It made sense to keep the youth players’ entitlement in check and remind them what it takes to be a part of this team.
Yeah because why manage your good players when you can just sell them for half their value and still get away with losing every other game.
You didn’t fancy him much, did you?
Not like most on this sub seem to fancy him and his hair transplant.
Bummer.
I literally said they probably aren’t ready. I’m not assuming they are.
Sorry, didn’t see your latest response before posting mine. Still think the part about entitlement and attitude issues is on point.
Heaven looks like a rolls Royce of a defender IMO
Yeah, but amorim played him last season already.
Yet people were slagging him off for the goal against Leeds 🤷♀️
I'm pretty sure that at that press conference Amorim was already in the "fuck it" mood.
And you can see how people are trying to say that the decision to fire him was already done before the game because of the "fight" between Amorim and Wilcox.
Definitely seems like that. Ruben came into that press conference with his trigger finger ready and safety OFF!
Hard to score against? He’s had 6 clean sheets in 50 games
I know it’s your opinion but what makes you feel we are hard to score against? We haven’t kept a clean sheet away in 15 games and from the top 14 teams in the league right now we have conceded the most?
My opinion is based on the fact that we’ve stopped conceding chances at the rate we were last year. The eye test supports it. Yes we’ve struggled to keep clean sheets but we don’t look as vulnerable at the back.
As you rightly pointed out, it’s my opinion but I feel more often than not, we’ve conceded against the run of play in comparison to last year when it seemed inevitable. We’ve all felt a sense of calm at the back since Lammens arrived but some credit is due to the coach as well.
Fair enough, I get it. I just don’t like using last year as a “marker” because we shouldn’t have been in that situation regardless.
On track for the worst ever defensive record, far worse than last season, which was abysmal. This is goals conceded per game btw. Absolute nonsense.
We concede a huge amount of goals though? Not disagreeing completely with come of your points, but we have kept 9 clean sheets in Amorims entire tenure.
We also haven’t really spent for his system if you look at the players we’ve brought in. None of them are of the profile he would need to play how he envisioned. Maybe our forwards like to invert, but that’s about it. I can sympathise with his frustrations, but his outburst and stating he was going to leave on Friday are signs of an individual who needs to mature, and I hope he does for his future roles.
Well I agree, But he spoke the truth. How can it be right for someone to get sacked for speaking the truth? If the board had been competent we would have been in the top 4 right now and amorim would have still been our manager. He made just 3 signings in the summer, all of them attackers, he didn't get any midfielders or wing backs that he would prefer, what else is he supposed to do he isn't Harry Potter.
You do realise that these very people paid him his salary? Just in the same way, he didn’t tolerate Garnacho’s outbursts, the guys at the top won’t put up with his shit.
How about you try this at your workplace and see how long do you last?
Yep it’s true. Unless you’re bringing in the big bucks. Which Amorim was not.
I mean its fairly simple concept that some fans are not able to comprehend. imagine turning up to work every week and actively insulting your bosses, staff, customers, while doing an historically record breakingly bad job until you're paid millions of pounds to get fuck off. pour one out for one of life's great grifters
I don’t even know if you can call him a grifter. He’s been very honest about everything. If anything you have to blame the fans for turning the guy into a prophet. The guy shit on the academy players, called his team the worst in United history and had a bust up with owners and fans created excuses for him at every hurdle. It was always there to be seen but people treated him like a messiah out of delusional desperation.
Yeah all the players were terrible and there was no way the man hired to manage them could do anything about that. Just make enemies of half of them and play the other half out of position until results get so bad you're getting dumped out of the Carabao cup to Grimsby and still don't get sacked for throwing them under the bus.
We signed two number 10’s because Amorim wanted to play Bruno in CM. Amorim wasn’t forced to play Bruno deeper, he wanted to. In Amorim’s system he needs two 10’s. We had to buy a striker too, and a goalkeeper, and we still approached Brighton for Baleba but they quoted us a ‘fuck off’ price.
He also got a left wing back in January, and decided to play Amad at RWB.
Mate you can speak the truth, but when you go on a 5 minute tirade during your post match presser you might as well just pack your bags and leave yourself. Because no board in the history of football is going to accept that and let you stick around.
The decision was made before the Leeds game. His press conference has no relation except just being an excuse to absolve themselves of any blame/accountability and instead dump it all on the manager even though the manager was misled by these people.
How was he misled? They backed him way more than they ought to have. They should have sacked him in the summer when is compensation was lower.
Asking him to change system to a back 4 is one.
He was close to the ucl places, shouldnt have been sacked. The fact that so many draws came against lower teams and they are 6th means the potential to be comfortable in the top 4 and close to Man City was there.
Only attackers and a goalkeeper were bought. They needed a striker and a goalkeeper because the previous ones were underperforming, they let go of too many attackers so needed to replace them with mbeumo and cunha and sesko.
No wingbacks(needed for back 3) and no midfielder was bought in the summer window. A midfielder was needed no matter the system. No centre back was bought as well. The team is scoring a lot unlike last season, the only thing is conceding goals which could’ve been improved even with one signing.
Perhaps if a midfielder was bought instead of an attacker, Bruno could’ve played in the front 3.
He wanted to join in the summer but was forced to come mid season if he wanted to be at Man Utd. He said he needed time and the team needed to suffer hence the poor results and position last season. Having a striker who wasn’t clinical and a goalkeeper who was letting in too much didn’t help.
There is no thing such as player power this time unlike the previous times.
If the sacking was because of results, it wouldn’t be when he’s 6th. This is clearly a power issue and the board wants to control the manager or to be more appropriate head coach.
A head coach is someone who focuses on the players he already has and has a lesser role so don’t expect the next one to make the club competitive again. If there’s any change in the culture, the board has to do it because they are the one who have this power.
He was 6th which is a major improvement from last season. Arteta is proof that if you want to truly rebuild, it takes a long time and some suffering. Amorim stuck by his system and what gave him success unlike ten hag who abandoned what made him successful. Unless the club and fans have some patience, the head coach cannot be successful and the cycle of sacking and rehiring would keep on happening.
Backing him would’ve been filling in the rest of the positions transfers were needed and if the club wasn’t top 4 comfortably then that would be a good reason to sack him. However with this, there would be a good foundation for the next head coach and not many new players would need to be bought if the board does the right thing and gets someone who can use the players available. A process wouldn’t then be needed because the players would already be there and so fans wouldn’t need to be patient, it would be a slot situation where minor adjustments would be the only thing needed.
Perhaps you would say he’s a few points from mid table however he is also a few from top 4, get even one signing in that he wanted instead of undermining the head coach (or manager whichever he was) and top 4 would be comfortable, the vibes around the club would be good too and the fans could be more optimistic.
Now he’s been sacked so the last 12 months have been a waste and some of the players may not fit a back 4 so they may have to be sub options competing with others who they were starting with. If a good foundation and culture was set by Amorim, that’s the only benefit but we don’t know if that will regress due to what the board just did.
4 signings and there was another in January.
He inherited a group of 40-50m defenders too.
Yep, it’s baffling to sack him now when we genuinely look like top 5 contenders, so this decision is definitely not based on sporting merit. We were more likely to get European football with him given we’re halfway in to the season with a new system.
Just like the coach, I now want to give the leadership the benefit of the doubt as well.
Let’s see what happens, never a dull moment with this club, eh?
It is clear he wanted the sack, basically daring for it a couple of times
Honestly I would’ve given him till the end of the season. We’re 6th place and only 3 points off top 4. That’s a huge improvement, and our play has been much better as well
Wait, people actually took this quote seriously? In the 2 years under INEOS there has been multiple occasions where the board say something and are doing the complete opposite. I remember when they first joined and they were gassing up ETH for like 2 months but behind the scenes they were interviewing managers to potentially replace him. Hell even last season all the talk when Erik got sacked was about Xavi, and every journalist around the club felt that was INEOS’s main target, and then out of no where Amorims name popped up and he was our manager with in two days. But the only reason Ratcliff even said this shit was to attempt to get pressure off Ruben’s back, because at this point Ruben hadn’t even won back too back games and we came off a loss to Grimsby.
To be fair that quote remains true whether its based in reality or not, they were giving him time to prove himself despite dog shit results. Him getting the boot was just down to a clash of giant egos and his total lack of adaptability to his system.
Why would you believe a word out of a lying billionaires mouth?
Gnarly backdoor
I think the plan was 3 years. And I think that was the full intention.
The sacking wasn't due to on the field, if was to due with his meltdowns. Ruben literally verbally attacked Wilcox, the data team, recruitment and Vivell in his press conference. Then said his role is Manager not coach (defining his own job role) and saying something that he wasn't.
He had discussions with these guys daily, and then attacked them in a presser. Which of course is what coaches do when they want to be sacked.
He went into the pre conference against Leeds saying things to get sacked and said to Jamie Jackson "I don't want to talk about it" when he said is it about Wilcox he replied "I don't want to talk about it but you are very smart" then his outburst after it.
If he didn't say anything pre or post Leeds he would still have a job. He effectively said he will move on in 18 months saying "I don't want to be here", he took his 10 million payout and smiled to the press after being sacked.
This wasn't Jim not sticking to his word. This was Ruben going off the rails wanting to be sacked. And for all we know Omar and Wilcox could have asked him "are you staying" he wanted out regardless.
Work in any job, then attack HR verbally and your direct bosses Infront of colleagues on camera and see if you still have a job after it.
he's a proven liar and a scumbag, he wants to make money off us and the regeneration to help with INEOS' 18bn debt, you can never trust a billionaire he will never be on your side
People here glaze Jim ratcliffe like he’s their grandad. When they cut staff benefits and jobs of normal people these people here praised him in managing clubs funds. However they make bad management decisions all the time worth 10s of millions which can supplement like 100 staff worth of wages for a year but no they’d rather cut benefits of the staff because of their own incompetence
so true i can never defend a billionaire, they become a billionaire by taking the wealth that belong to people
They all just parrot Ratcliffe's pet journalist Andy Mitten who said those people had to be sacked
I have not seen people here glaze Ratcliffe, quite the opposite. Pretty much no one praised him when cutting staff benefits.
At his age, I really don’t think that’s his goal. He wants legacy. At the minute it’s a legacy he won’t want, but time will tell.
He's 73. He'll be dead in 10 years or at least well out of the picture, Wrexham will be champions and United will be fighting off relegation from league 1.
Or maybe we'll all be dead.
It looks like hypocrisy and rudderless given that recent SJR interview but, and I've been a huge supporter of RA needing time unlike previous managers under previous regimes, you can't publicly challenge your employer like that and think they won't deal with it. Unless you're Mo Salah 😉
Who really knows what goes on behind closed doors but if you take what RA said post-Leeds at face value then it appears there was a misalignment in what he believed his role and responsibilities would be and what JW and OB believed his role and responsibilities would be. Very very poor if that wasn't made clear at the recruitment stage. If it was and things had shifted, then they should have sorted it out behind closed doors.
Ultimately, right or wrong, good or bad, he's gone. I wish him the best. He's a young manager and I know he'll be a success elsewhere.
As far as we're concerned, if we're looking for a head coach, make that clear to whoever is spoken to Glasner, Ole, Southgate, Xavi, Carrick, everyone. If they're happy to operate in that narrow role they'll come to the table, if not, let's move on. But don't try and bring someone in under false pretenses then pull the rug from under their feet.
Jim RAT-cliffe
And since that interview we lost to 10 man Everton, drew with Bournemouth, Wolves, Leeds and West Ham.
It's not like Amorim has 9 wins in 11 games and they decided to sack him because he made comments about the transfer budget.
Just wasted two whole years with Ineos, the last 14 months could of been avoided with Amorim if they actually spent time thinking about the system properly the first question I had was 3 or 5 at the back is this a united formation anymore importantly do we have the players to play it . Just seems like they went for Amorim to avoid him going to city with Viana. The clubs a right mess , even upto two weeks ago when they were in for Semenyo , don’t blame him for rejecting United , but they still ignoring bringing in a midfielder first which is their biggest problem not attack . Now a compensation package is surely going to eat into the January and summer transfer budget. With Ashworth, ETH and now Amorim ineos has probably shelled out somewhere between 60-80m in compensation that’s literally Baleba money .
Amorim literally spend multiple games trying out players in his formation and binned everyone who performed in that time
Yes, so?
They got him backing in hope he gonna start showing what he capable of and reduce pressure, meanwhile he gave us awful performance in easy stint of matches and on top of that started open mouth on his unsatisfaction. The hell? When having literally nothing to show for.
Guy holds ridiculously bad stat line in PL. Got us historical losses. How you guys even pretend there conversation can be had? Good grief we got rid of this scam artist, unironically eth was god compared to that disaster, should have perhaps fire him on spot after Grimsby, but well, better now than 3 full years of that shit football.
Amorim wanted to go when he got told that the club wont sign anyone in jan.. he sacked himself
Ratcliffe clearly hasn't got a fucking clue what he's doing and lacks the humility to aknowledge it.
He should have bought Chelsea FC instead.
Didn't Chelsea also lose their manager for the same reason
More or less yes.
But that wasn't my point.
SJR is just Glazernomics 2.0
And circumstances change if there is tension between the coach and the front office, no?
A chairman backing the manager became such a sign that he would be sacked it became a joke. Are you new?
Three months ago Amorim hadn't delivered an angry tirade against the leadership at a post-match press conference and then stormed out of it
Lads (and lasses) I'm starting to think he is not the football whisperer
Glazers are enjoying this. Sitting in the background, pressure is off and all eyes on the puppets - ineos. Their incompetency is beyond belief.
The funniest thing is that people actually believed this. Most surprising thing to me, in all this affair, is that he was not sacked on the 1st of November, like it was expected.
Anyone who believed this wasn't subject to change at any time...I've got a bridge in London to sell you.
Billionaires don't like to be questioned.
When will you guys stop crying that the worst Manchester United manager in premier league history has rightfully been shown the door. He was lucky that he got the second season.
I thought all you Amorim cultists were about ‘supporting the club’?
I think if anything this has taught us to not believe a single word that comes out of Jim’s mouth
Ruben was shit. Get over it.
Everyone lies.
Spoofer and a bluffer.
Yeah and then he had a major fall out with the sporting director and said he couldn’t work with him.
So this three years is irrelevant.
I think the problem is Jim can't just give him time for the sake of it. Amorim has to show something back too and all he was showing us was that we are still going in circles dropping points at home in easy games. Everyone can harp on about injuries and Afcon all they want but the same results happened when we had a full squad.
Ultimately Amorim has to show that he is making progress and he wasn't, and before anyone bangs on about we are 6th, so what, that can change in 2 weeks, we are 4 points from 14th too. 1 loss can drastically change the table at the moment and if he didn't bottle so many easy games we'd be in the top 4 with some breathing space. Had we beat Wolves and 10 man Everton, like we should have, we'd be 5 points better off so we'd be 4th right now 2 points above Liverpool and thats disregarding other games we should have won.
this was if he licked his and wilcox's arse
Lying vampire
I, for one, interpreted it a different way than everyone else I guess. I understood this to mean RA had to prove over 3 years that he was a great coach, not that he had been given 3 years unequivocally and was then going to be judged at the end.
It has seemed quite evident over his 14/15 months that he proved he wasn't/isn't a great coach, so why would they keep him on for the further 18 or so months? From his on pitch performances to his emotional off pitch explosiveness, it's pretty clear that he isn't, and wasn't going to be, a great Manchester United coach
3 years is how long it would have taken to give Amorim a completely reworked squad in his image.
But Amorim demanded it right now as if money grew on the roof of Old Trafford.
Dude said, “I’m gone in 18 months” and people are shocked he got sacked. Come on…
According to Laurie Whitwell and others, amorim told Wilcox he wished to leave the club and called his agent.
That's why they reacted. They've publicly backed him and he didn't.
He should've sacked Wilcox.
A tory liar? Well I never.
If he keep sucking sir jims little dick he would have not being sacked...
Imo Ratcliffe is senile and Wilcox is manipulating him to do his bidding
I dont really like Jim but if Ruben wanted out, then he is out.
You dont beat 2 points wolves at home you find out. I am glad he found out finally that his system is rotten and he was another fraud. Kudos here to wilcox for calling him out that 1 point at home to wolves was unacceptable. Why should they support the coach for 3 years if he has shown exactly 0 progress and evolution.
After the saga, I feel he did this to save his face during that period of time. It wasn't about Ruben. It was about INEOS
He's obviously not a man of his word and just another Nail in the Manchester United Coffin!!!!
Who cares? He’s gone, we move on
His baby boy Jason Wilcox feelings got hurt by Amorim that's why he got sacked
Exactly! The board says one thing, does another, and are a bunch of spineless, egoistic pricks who only sacked Amorim because he went against them, and publicly too. If he'd shut up, he'd still be around, and that sets a worrying precedent.
Dim Jim.
This was an atempt to cover up the rumors ( now no longer rumors) that higher ups have been pressuring Amorim to do what THEY want since september... good luck anyone decent coming here now that that has coem to light..... SINCE SEPTEMBER!!!
[deleted]
No way. When Amorim does it, it is being honest and genuine. With his win rate, they should be already splashing the 500m they promised him.
Sub 40% win rate? LOL
Many people in this sub call it progress, miracle even.
And you believed him?
What?
The boss of a company is a lying scumbag?
Who would’ve thought
Oh sweet summer child you believe in every word from a company's CEO?
I believed Amorim that he can be the one.. but I'm not surprised he got sacked.. The audacity of Amorim. He ended 15th last season, he had 38% WR and he decides to fire shots on transfer policy after he was given players for 250m in the summer. You produced the worst season we remember and still have balls to blame others, you deserve to be sacked.
I think SJR meant it, as Amorim wasn’t sacked for results, he called out his bosses. Very different from a run of poor form. IMO he’d have been very successful long term. Sad to say he’s gone.
Amorim hired to do the job, even after a horrible season finishing 15th he's still keep the job. They're ready to supply, he get 5 new players.
What amorim did? still doing a bad job. Even worse he's 20 games in, drawing games like its a toy, and lastly 4 points away from 14th in the face of an upcoming big game like City and Arsenal.
Did he apologize? No he lashed out to the board. Of course they will get rid of him. He have the nerve to go against the board while displaying an atrocious game week in week out.
This is the worst take of the situation LOL
It makes sense. Like you can have shitty results for over a year or last few months. You can also hang the board out to dry in public. But you can’t be doing both of those at the same time unless getting sacked and getting a payout is exactly what you had in mind.
What's better take? He got everything to start a team since last year but can't prove even for a consistent win. Yet he ask for more player without money from UCL or UEL or any competition he failed to get in.
Do you see the table? There's like Sunderland, Brentford, Newcastle, Brighton, Fulham that only 3 points away from United. You think their squad any better than Man Utd? Absolutely not!
Some fans brag about how good amorim by looking at the stats, but refuse to acknowledge that the squad is actually better and have more potential than whatever this is now.
So you expect us to be top 4 this season, yes or no? Either way, we are 3 points away after 1 transfer window with a very thin squad. So you agree Amorim is making progress and raised our standard and expectation, yes or no? Make up your mind.
Yesss, 4th place is very achievable. How many times the team flop a chance to go up by losing or drawing this season? They can't even get past chelsea.
Liverpool on their bad day that was mocked in this sub week by week, losing so many times is now 4th with 3 wins and 2 draws. Come on now.