After killing Furiosa’s mother, Dementus keeps Furiosa around becuase she’s valuable to him due to her knowledge of where the land of plentifulness is. But once he discovers the Citadel (which he probably thought was the same place as Furiosa came from) Furiosa stops being useful: she’s just a child he has to feed and give precious water. So why does he actually keep her?
Dementus might see something of his younger self in her and someone he can shape in his image as even a possible heir. But there’s a darker possibility I’ve been considering lately: that his intentions weren’t so different from Immortan Joe’s. During his meeting with Joe, Dementus calls her “perfect” and “mine,” hesitates to give her up, and only does when he understands it’s the only way to get his deal. So yes I’m implying he might have wanted her for the same little reason Joe did as disgusting as that may be.
What do you guys think?
As a healthy female child she is basically a prize/trophy and makes him look powerful to others.
Nevermind that, as a healthy young female with little agency and ability to resist, she's basically got unlimited bargaining power in a negotiation insofar that she can be sold as a bride to virtually the entire population of the wasteland.
He may also see something of himself in her on account of his backstory suggests he was something of an orphan too.
Dementus is clever and quick. He would have to be a fool not to keep the girl around -- near him, so she can't be stolen behind his back. He's in charge for a reason; he's resourceful.
I agree with all those points, I just am pointing out his word play and his Dementus like Joe no doubt new her perfection could be of use in making an heir.
I’m just saying in addition to all you said he may have planned to eventually use her in the same way Joe wanted too as dark as that may be.
Just to add I thought the movie made it pretty clear that he had lost his own children.
So there's a possibility of some old feelings of fatherhood coming to the surface.
Also the idea of parading Furiosa around as his own being as healthy as she looked will definitely be another show of power and superiority. Good stock, etc.
With most characters in Mad Max there's the good and bad side. Sadly the bad tends to be quite horrendous and unforgiving. So sadly I'd say it's a combination of all ideas that have been previously mentioned as well as your own. The most intriguing characters in these stories have such various goals and perspectives that often conflict with themselves. It's what makes these characters so loved and hated.
The History Man clearly saw some potential in Dementus towards the beginning of their journeys. Despite him being a prisoner and all. The History Man tried the best he could to teach Dementus how to be a better leader. It seemed at first that Dementus was somewhat susceptible to these teaching too.
I'd always thought that The History Man is not just looking out for Furiosa as she's an innocent in need of help. But he also recognises what effect she had on Dementus. Bringing out his paternal side, which is needed in a leader too.
I think it says a lot about my personal world view and experience that what your implying was so astoundingly obvious the second I saw it, and a little sad to learn that there could have been a much nicer perspective out there that other people experienced when watching the film, but I didn’t.
This specific plot line caused revulsion from the get-go, and tainted every action, word or thought those characters had, making it a pretty darkly themed story. It made Furiosa’s escape much more triumphant and exhilarating. Her motives were rage-fueled rejections of abuse by men, by power, by the systems of the world building.
I honestly didn’t realise it could be seen any other way.
This is interesting to me and I’m not saying you’re wrong at all because perhaps that’s exactly the implications of the film but I saw it in a completely different way. I think Dementus’ near faded albeit twisted paternal instincts for Furiosa are one of the only small redeeming features he used to have. I don’t think he was planning for her to be HIS bride, although I realise now I don’t know WHAT his longtime plans for her were unless she was to be his next History Woman.
Yeah I was aware of the more gross possibility when i watched it, but personally I felt that it had to do with the teddy bear he keeps with him that he gives to her. It felt like in some fucked up way he saw her as partially a lost child, partially a younger him, and partially a bargaining chip, all kind of mixed up in his head.
tbh I don't think he had any long term plan for her. I think he probably just intended to keep her until he needed to get rid of her, if that makes sense? Like a comfort toy you know you're too old for and you know is getting ratty and worn out, but you don't want to get rid of it unless someone pushes you to.
Yep this is the reading I also have of it tbh. He’s got some weird paternal feelings, and he’s also using her for her healthy blood, and he’s just bored and chaotic and he’s also keeping her around for a bargaining chip. I think you’re spot on that all of these are true at once. The only perspective I don’t really agree with is OP’s but maybe that’s naive of me - I simply don’t get that particular strain of evil vibe from Dementus. He’s a rotten bloke but I don’t think he was planning on THAT future for Furiosa, not with himself at least.
Yeah I feel my read on Dementus is like. Very impulsive and hedonistic and id driven. I wouldn't actually put assault past him if she had stayed with him until she was grown and the stars aligned right to make his brain decide on it, but I don't think it was something he was thinking about at all or was inevitable between them.
The arrested development of dementus makes perfect sense honestly. I like this take.
Thank you for sharing your perspective, I’ll keep it in mind on the next watch to try and see it with different eyes
I always figured he was planning to raise her to be his successor and eventually have her kill him.
For real.
What interpretation of his action isn't gross as fuck?
If he's not a pedo, then he's a slaver.
Yeah that’s the way I’ve started to see it but some I guess think it’s more innocent then what we see it as.
I think he hesitated to give her up and talked about how perfect she was to bait Joe into upping her value in the trade. Otherwise why bring her at all? I think if he wanted her like that he would’ve already done so
Not really, Joe even points out she could be one of the wives when she’s older, he did not intend to bang a child.
I could see Dementus being the same, he probably planned to wait until she came of age to be able to produce him an heir.
Edit; also he brought all his top men with him so why not bring her? If you had a perfect girl who no doubt your entire army might want to steal you’d bring he too.
He might have seen Furiosa as a perpetual child, her small frame and pale pallor adding to this esthetic, bolstered by frequent bloodletting to keep her from growing much larger.
As soon as Immortan Joe saw her and realized that she was not going to survive under Dementus' care for much longer, he made a decision that both satisfied the arrangements necessary for Gastown to survive and the transfer of useful assets out of a competitor's custody; by surrendering the Organic Mechanic it would be a lot less of a chance that any injuries or afflictions hitting Dementus would receive proper treatment.
Without his proxy-child, Dementus would have a smaller pool of stabilizing elements, as he would no longer have to restrain his people's baser instincts or focus on anything other than himself.
Joe just knew that he could wait out most of the problems and get what he wanted again: custody of Gastown and the relative peace of the Wasteland.
Also, it meant that Joe had a trophy in his custody, plus he could ask questions directly from the Organic Mechanic about the goings-on of Dementus' organization.
Yeah good take, I don’t personally think Dementus was going to let her die or that she would have died becuase again I think he had further plans for her then just blood.
Sooner or later, she'd have entered puberty. Surrounded by that culture of lawlessness, what do you feel was going to happen to her?
He would either use her the same way Joe wanted to, to produce him an heir. Or he’d give her out to his top men as a reward.
My 2 dark but realistic theories with 1 being more likely to me.
Dementus never seems to want an heir, just more of anything that someone else already owns. If he ever gave away Furiosa, it would just be the pretense needed to attack whomever had her, doing so under the aegis of retrieving what was "stolen" from him.
He fundamentally can not deliver on any sort of long-term arrangements, and raising a child is the practical definition of that very thing.
My thoughts are that as soon as she was outside of the specific definition of the child archetype that he had in mind, she'd be dead by his hand or worse.
What gives you that implication he never wanted an heir? There’s nothing that implies that.
The whole film implies this to me! It’s why Immortan Joe and Dementus are so different. Immortan is all about long term planning and legacy - he’s obsessed with offspring and heirs to continue his legacy. Dementus is all chaos and violence and immediate pleasure. Dementus cares about the CONQUEST of it all because hes eternally bored and restless but he doesn’t actually CARE about having an EMPIRE. Immortan Joe is much more about building an empire and expanding for the long run.
I agree Dementus is very short term thinking but it’s not out of question to assume he wanted an heir and again his wording when describing her makes me assume so.
Where were the rest of the women around him then? Why would he kill Furiosa’s mother, a healthy and beautiful woman? I don’t think he was bothered about legacy or heirs AT ALL. That’s sort of the point in contrasting him with Immortan Joe.
because he was more focused on getting to the green place then an heir, its called priority's man. he was trying to get her to tell him where it was and she died as result.
If he wanted an heir, where were Dementus' own brood-mares? Failing that, any women other than the single woman used as a guard for Furiosa after her capture?
It's worth noting that that woman is never seen again, and that the closest thing to a woman in his inner circle is Mr. Norton, who is one of the most sadistic members of his retinue.
There's no children in his entire tribe, in fact. They're not a culture built on legacies.
Totally agree with you - I loved how different Immortan and Dementus are. Immortan Joe is obsessed with empire and LEGACY. Dementus doesn’t give a shit about legacy - hes just bored, restless & traumatised by the past so much he wants to torch the present.
I’m mean I agree that there not really a tribe with wife’s and kids and more of a bike gang however the clear reason Dementus does not have a harem like Joe can simply be that Joe had more access to good women then Dementus had, the few women his gang did come across were not child giving material. Furiosa was probably the first eligible one.
There were likely a few more; Mr. Norton was not a warrior by original intent, just a survivor. During the Five-Bike Teddy, she was quick to catch onto the prevailing wisdom of seizing an opportunity as opposed to begging for mercy.
Dementus didn't want women with families; he loathed all signs of hope. Families are exactly that.
I'm gonna veer away from the darker side of this conversation and say that keeping Furiosa was a status symbol. A healthy child in that blighted place says you have something the others don't and you can keep it that way.
Fair
I don’t think he planned for her to be for HIM (I hope not) and the references to his past lead me to believe as a father he has some semblance of paternal instincts left. However, she WAS valuable as a commodity to sell & trade.
I mean I don’t really think he intended to give up considering again how hesitant he was when Joe offered.
Classic bargaining technique tbh. Haggling. But also he might not have been ready to give her up yet - like I said, I think he had a ghost of paternal instincts still left, albeit twisted. It’s why he gives her the teddy.
I mean sure it could have been acting but it did not really come across that way.
I simply don’t agree that he comes across the way you’re suggesting either to be honest. It just isn’t supported in the film other than what YOU believe - there are no real hints or implications that he wanted to replicate what Immortan Joe is doing and that he wanted to force himself on Furiosa in THAT way. He’s using her for her blood, because he was a father ONCE and has twisted parental feelings towards her, and he’s a total agent of chaos AND as a potential bargaining chip. I think all of those things are true at once, the only thing I don’t think he was keeping her around for is actually what you’re suggesting strangely enough.
And that’s fine, we don’t HAVE to agree. And I disagree there are hints to it.
Dementus was feeding off of her in the movie, the organic mechanic gave him the lizard mince and blood sausage....Furiosa is where the blood comes from.
Yep - I think he had bizarre and twisted paternal memories and instincts and indulged those a bit with her but he’s still a rotten bastard (in a different kind of way) and was almost vampiric in feeding off of her for his own health and benefit.
Doesn’t mean he could have not wanted her for other things
Zero indication that’s the case.
Well I mean id disagree but okay.
Yes, I’ve read your baseless projection.
I give examples of why I think so, if you want to disagree that’s fine. But if you just want to act like an ass then we’re done talking.
Good day.
He says those things yes. At no point is there even the slightest suggestion that he doesn’t mean exactly what he says but your misinterpretation instead.
Joe immediately makes it clear he’s collecting wives. Dementus is enjoying bragging about his “daughter” and seems repulsed by Joe’s suggestion.
At several points in the movie Dementus makes obvious how much he valued his own children and how he projects that on little D.
At no point whatsoever does he express any kind of interest in a partner.
His entire schtick is the abandonment of hope. A wive, whether it’s a breeding cow or a twisted love interest is the definition of hope.
The absolute antithesis of everything Dementus is about.
Maybe.
Dementus' teddy bear was a reflection of his childhood/psyche and Chris Hemsworth mentioned that by the end of the film the teddy bear took on a perverse meaning of sorts, he didn't explain it exactly. So maybe there was something extremely twisted in there.
But I tend to think he thought of her like his surrogate child, whom he wanted to raise in the same way he was raised (and effectively turn her into a hardened monster). He almost pulled it off, if it wasn't for the fact Furiosa was inherently a good person and nothing could change that.
Fair
I think it is both
I think there is absolutely a vibe that Dementus saw Furiosa as a potential heir
But an heir to dementus CANNOT have any hope or goodness left in them. So the two are not mutually exclusive.
If she survives his attention and kills him, metal
If she breaks entirely and he has a plaything, fine
If she dies, whatever, there was no hope anyway.
Agreed
He was also using her blood. A healthy young person, without much radiation exposure, is likely perfect for blood transfusion. So think it was status, keeping her like a pet, with the extra benefit of the blood
I think I’ve forgotten most of this movie and you clearly have put more thought into the world building than any of the writers.
Without a doubt.
Yup