That would have made sense. Agger was on the bench. Rafa did make strange selections at times. The 2007 CL Final we were much better than AC Milan but left it too late to make subs. Crouch came on late and Bellamy didn't even come on at all to test their defence.
Rafa’s ‘strange selections’ also yielded Arbeloa at LB (on debut?) against Messi, stopping him entirely and helping us get to the 2007 CL final, and Stevie at RWB helping us win the greatest game of club football ever.
First match I ever went to at Anfield Maxi scored a hattrick against Birmingham City. I think he had another hattrick like two weeks before/later i cant recall. Love him !
They are completely different players. Kuyt was a Duracell bunny. He kept grafting and grafting. Not the most technically gifted, but he made up for that in attitude. Was a great player to have in the side.
Whereas gakpo is technical and tactical, but not really an all energy grafter.
Kuyt was a great player in a team that mostly finished 4th. Gakpo is less all action - still puts in a defensive shift - but with more cutting edge in a team that has most often outperformed anything Kuyt played in.
I’m comparing both as striker/winger hybrids, here.
That’s why stuff like xG exists. Not that it should be taken as read in isolation, but it shows the quality of chances we created without having a shot on target
Shots on target always annoy me. When is ita blocked shot and when is it a shot on target? A lot of shots that would have gone in but are blocked are apparently not shots on target. Is it only if the keeper has to make a save?
It’s a shot on target if the keeper saves it or a defender stops it from going in (ie they block it on or near the line and nobody else would prevent it from going in).
Yes, it does count as a shot on target. Hence why stats like xG and xGOT exist, because not all shots are made the same, and these stats provide a broad picture of creativity.
Frimpong received the ball with his back to goal, should've turned to shoot, but passed backwards about 20 yards instead. Then he was through on goal, should've shot and passed backwards across his body and had it deflected away from Wirtz. He should've had a couple shots on goal on his own.
I think they should counts as on target. I mean you can't get sloser to a goal than that and it's way closer to a goal than a weak shot directly at the keeper.
Last night game was amazing. I don’t know about others but I really enjoyed it. Disciplined in the first half and daring in the second half, only thing missing was a goal, otherwise it would be a masterclass
Amazing is an interesting word choice for last night. It was actually a poor advertisement of the PL in general and if we didn't have such low expectations then we would probably look back on this game differently but maybe I've been spoilt by Klopp's heavy metal football
Only real problem was we didn't really create anything again, and anything offensive that went to Gakpo died instantly. Same problems really. Can forgive it a bit though without a recognised striker.
That squad is decent I'd say...you could swap agger in for the LCB and Johnson as LB...rest are decent
Or mascherano as cb with Johnson as rb and agger as LB
Also shots on target is pretty useless imo...I mean you can have high quality shots which just misses the goal and then basically have a catching practice shot at the keeper technically as a shot on target
Some people love a good cry. We just went toe to toe with the best team in Europe at their ground and dominated the ball without having a striker. Our bench stinks of a lack of depth and people still can't be pleased. Football fanbases are the worst.
I agree. First half was some of the worst I've ever seen from us in a game. No desire to actually play football, just defend in a low block which I absolute despise other teams for when they doing it against us. At the end of the day this is suppose to be entertainment and fun to watch. Happy we flipped it for the second half cause it was embarrasing to watch.
You're dwelling in misery and looking for things to moan about. Nothing is ideal about this season, but we are undeniably on a better curve than a couple of months ago. Not losing in 10 is mediocre is it? How come so few other teams have managed it?
Positive toxicity... your entire comment is based on that.
The reality is that Liverpool were thrashed by Forest at Anfield... Wolves, bottom of the table, cornered Liverpool at Anfield... Leeds drew with Liverpool both away and at home...
If there were an improvement, then the team wouldn't be struggling with the bottom of the table at ANFIELD.
Yeah right now they are the best team in Europe..only 2 losses all season and beat a unbeaten Bayern in CL.They sit at top both in the league and in CL.
So by that logic Atalanta is the 4th best team in Europe right now?
They didn't even play the same teams.
Let's see where they are at the end of the season.
When I see them play they don't look like the best team in Europe.
Yes, that's what I'm saying. The CL table isn't really telling a lot at this point. It's like if they still played separate CL groups but it's somehow throw into one table but different.
They can win the CL this year, not saying they aren't one of the favourites. But it's a bit early to call them the best team in Europe at this point. Let's see them play against a few more big teams and maybe Bayern away.
I honestly think we would win against them over two legs in the CL.
No striker is not an excuse.
City won a league title without a striker. Klopp went to Camp Nou and put in a hell of performance with Gini Wijnaldum at #9.
Slotball is just devoid of any creativity. This is mostly how we play even with a striker.
I didn’t claim they did. I just said generally speaking that having no stiker for last night is not an excuse for this toothless attacking display.
We can be happy how we completely nullified them but we did not do any better at the other end of the pitch.
People like to post how we outperformed on xG in every single one of those draws and losses in recent times. When in reality the quality of chances we create every week is horrible. We don’t create cleae cut goal scoring opportunities even with 3 forwards on.
All I am saying is this has gone on for a long long time now and Slot is not getting it any better. It is incredibly worrying for the long run if we continue with this manager and coaching staff. Win, lose or draw this is how we play going forward every single week and last night the xG finally matched the eye test.
I was saying the same last night. This was the same performance we have seen for weeks. It was not any better, just the team we faced happens to be at the top of the table currently. We are utterly toothless and impotent in attack regardless of having a striker available or not. Every one of our goals comes from a moment of individual quality. We do not score team goals
Fairly crazy what losing Xabi did to that team. You look at the rest of it (particularly with Johnson, Agger, Riera and Babel on the bench) and it's arguably stronger than the previous season.
Shocking with that line up! And we hit the post, that isn't considered a shot on target? Only a goal/shit saved by keeper is considered a shot on target? Serious question.
In hockey (pardon my Canadian), a shot that hits the post counts as a shot on target.
I understand the semantics - I was referring to that squad of players (minus Xabi) that Benitez assembled in those final years of his time at LFC. I was able to get to a few games at Anfield the season we made the title push.
Aqualiani, Riera, Ngog and Babel. So much talent for such little return, crazy all 4 failed. I remember the first couple of games watching Riera, I genuinely thought he was going to be absolutely class for us.
Christ. We were missing a bunch of players and going to the best team in the country. We’re only the second team not to lose at the Emirates this season in all competitions and we’re the first to keep a clean sheet there all season.
You have to play the hand you’re dealt. There’s nothing embarrassing about shutting up shop and taking a point away from the champions elect in that situation.
We’re the champions lad. Yeah players missing, but what we had available is still a decent 11 but we set up/played like a Sean dyche team, as Liverpool is embarrassing regardless. Wanking ourselves off for keeping a clean sheet shows how far we have dropped off.
Marcherano at RB. Liverpool knows a thing or two about making midfielders playing RB. Even Firmino played as RWB (I think) under Rodgers
With Glen Johnson on the bench!
2011, he shouldn't have been in his John Glenson era yet. I know his form fell off a cliff but it shouldn't have been this early in his career.
He was returning from injury.
Also known as Monday
That makes sense, thanks
He was. He would be in the England side in 2012 Euros.
Who
Didn't he end up moving to CB at Barcelona. I assume there must have been injuries at RB and CB if him and Kyiragos played there
Glen Johnson was coming back from injury. He was subbed on for Lucas Mascherano presumably moved into midfield.
That would have made sense. Agger was on the bench. Rafa did make strange selections at times. The 2007 CL Final we were much better than AC Milan but left it too late to make subs. Crouch came on late and Bellamy didn't even come on at all to test their defence.
Rafa’s ‘strange selections’ also yielded Arbeloa at LB (on debut?) against Messi, stopping him entirely and helping us get to the 2007 CL final, and Stevie at RWB helping us win the greatest game of club football ever.
Yeah most of the time his bold team selections paid off
in Europe it felt that way, not so much in the league
Man I still remember Arbeloa just pocketing Messi and thinking we had a bonafide stud of a player just snuck in quietly, loved him
Firmino was LWB away at United under Rodgers. Don’t think he played RWB.
Just for the fact how he used Firmino was grounds for Brendan's dismissal
Decent bit of quality in that lineup honestly. Kuyt and Maxi would’ve been stars in a different era.
Klopp would have loved them
I always thought that Maxi would have been an excellent Klopp player.
Slot would of loved Kuyt! Gakpo and Kuyt left and right would of been frustrating some games but brilliant others
Would have
Don't forget the legendary Kyrgiakos.
How could we with the Lucy's twitter account stories.
I think this Gerrard lad was quite decent too
Kyrgiakos forever earned my utmost affection the day he spat his front teeth out at the Reebok.
Damn right they would be
First match I ever went to at Anfield Maxi scored a hattrick against Birmingham City. I think he had another hattrick like two weeks before/later i cant recall. Love him !
Kuyt worked hard but a very average player
Gakpo is a superior Kuyt if we’re being honest
They are completely different players. Kuyt was a Duracell bunny. He kept grafting and grafting. Not the most technically gifted, but he made up for that in attitude. Was a great player to have in the side. Whereas gakpo is technical and tactical, but not really an all energy grafter.
Kuyt was a great player in a team that mostly finished 4th. Gakpo is less all action - still puts in a defensive shift - but with more cutting edge in a team that has most often outperformed anything Kuyt played in.
I’m comparing both as striker/winger hybrids, here.
1-0 loss to Wigan is a lot worse than drawing 0-0 away to League leaders Arsenal tbh.
Especially with Torres and Gerrard in the team. Not mustering a shot on target with those two attacking is quite something.
Tbf, it is a weird stats quirk …Bradley hit the crossbar, but still not good enough
That’s why stuff like xG exists. Not that it should be taken as read in isolation, but it shows the quality of chances we created without having a shot on target
Shots on target always annoy me. When is ita blocked shot and when is it a shot on target? A lot of shots that would have gone in but are blocked are apparently not shots on target. Is it only if the keeper has to make a save?
It’s a shot on target if the keeper saves it or a defender stops it from going in (ie they block it on or near the line and nobody else would prevent it from going in).
But if a soft shot goes straight to the keeper, it still counts as a save and shot on target.
I'd prefer an off-target shot that just goes wide or a far-post attempt that fails to curl than a tame attempt that rolls to the waiting keeper.
Yes, it does count as a shot on target. Hence why stats like xG and xGOT exist, because not all shots are made the same, and these stats provide a broad picture of creativity.
No not always, opta is random in this. Lost some bets because of this corruption
I agree. I remember two shots by Szobo that were on target but blocked by a defender's foot, should have counted. Not that it matters at all.
Frimpong received the ball with his back to goal, should've turned to shoot, but passed backwards about 20 yards instead. Then he was through on goal, should've shot and passed backwards across his body and had it deflected away from Wirtz. He should've had a couple shots on goal on his own.
The post/crossbar isn't on target. On target means the ball goes in if nobody interferes.
. I’m aware, just saying we were closer to scoring with that chance than Arsenal were all match but it will go down as no shots on target
Their xg was higher. Our standards are lower.
I think they should counts as on target. I mean you can't get sloser to a goal than that and it's way closer to a goal than a weak shot directly at the keeper.
Blocked shots also don’t count as shots on target.
I thought it was Macca? Need to see that one again
Shots on target is another shit stat. That Suarez effort that hit the bar doesn't count but a pathetic weak effort straight at the keeper does?
Should have counted as a shot on target
It was not on target. You don’t get a goal for beating the keeper but hitting the crossbar. It should not count.
Last night game was amazing. I don’t know about others but I really enjoyed it. Disciplined in the first half and daring in the second half, only thing missing was a goal, otherwise it would be a masterclass
Agreed. The most coherent performance I've seen in a while. Clear system implemented perfectly, and utter dominance in the 2nd half.
That’s the main thing for me you could tell exactly what the game plan was and it was executed well
Seems like we approached it like our big Champions League matches (Inter, Real, Atletico), where we went in with a clear, focused plan to frustrate.
City in the league last season too.
Only thing missing was one of Salah, Isak or Ekitike. But of course Assna play us with all 3 out….
It was extremely enjoyable to observe their frustration level going up and up and up for every one touch pass we made through them
Amazing is an interesting word choice for last night. It was actually a poor advertisement of the PL in general and if we didn't have such low expectations then we would probably look back on this game differently but maybe I've been spoilt by Klopp's heavy metal football
Only real problem was we didn't really create anything again, and anything offensive that went to Gakpo died instantly. Same problems really. Can forgive it a bit though without a recognised striker.
Exactly what I felt, screw the stats man.
More than enough quality in that side with Gerrard, Torres, Rodriguez etc.
Went to my first game at Anfield that season. Beat Bolton 2-0. Think Gerard played but Torres.
My first Anfield game that season too, but it was the 2-2 with Birmingham when Cameron Jerome decided to score the best goal ever.
Oh right. Mustn't have beaten them in either game that season
Was it the away game when Rafa took Gerrard off really early?
No Torres and Gerrard looked stunned. That's the one's that stood out. Forgot the score in the home one.
I've erased most of that season from my mind 😂
Pretty sure Rafa was sacked not long after that?
That squad is decent I'd say...you could swap agger in for the LCB and Johnson as LB...rest are decent
Or mascherano as cb with Johnson as rb and agger as LB
Also shots on target is pretty useless imo...I mean you can have high quality shots which just misses the goal and then basically have a catching practice shot at the keeper technically as a shot on target
I expected a worse line up than this!
Some people love a good cry. We just went toe to toe with the best team in Europe at their ground and dominated the ball without having a striker. Our bench stinks of a lack of depth and people still can't be pleased. Football fanbases are the worst.
Celebrating a draw against Arsenal when we're not fighting for anything is absolute mediocrity... are we now a team with a mediocre mentality?
I agree. First half was some of the worst I've ever seen from us in a game. No desire to actually play football, just defend in a low block which I absolute despise other teams for when they doing it against us. At the end of the day this is suppose to be entertainment and fun to watch. Happy we flipped it for the second half cause it was embarrasing to watch.
Read the room.
You're dwelling in misery and looking for things to moan about. Nothing is ideal about this season, but we are undeniably on a better curve than a couple of months ago. Not losing in 10 is mediocre is it? How come so few other teams have managed it?
Positive toxicity... your entire comment is based on that.
The reality is that Liverpool were thrashed by Forest at Anfield... Wolves, bottom of the table, cornered Liverpool at Anfield... Leeds drew with Liverpool both away and at home...
If there were an improvement, then the team wouldn't be struggling with the bottom of the table at ANFIELD.
Sorry. Who is celebrating? Stating facts, you have to take the season for what it is. Not your expectations or wants.
Best team in Europe?!
Yeah
Yeah right now they are the best team in Europe..only 2 losses all season and beat a unbeaten Bayern in CL.They sit at top both in the league and in CL.
So by that logic Atalanta is the 4th best team in Europe right now? They didn't even play the same teams. Let's see where they are at the end of the season. When I see them play they don't look like the best team in Europe.
Well Atalanta sits 7th in Serie A with 5 losses and Arsenal 1st in both competitions..
Yes, that's what I'm saying. The CL table isn't really telling a lot at this point. It's like if they still played separate CL groups but it's somehow throw into one table but different. They can win the CL this year, not saying they aren't one of the favourites. But it's a bit early to call them the best team in Europe at this point. Let's see them play against a few more big teams and maybe Bayern away.
I honestly think we would win against them over two legs in the CL.
I don’t wanna see us play against them again Slot vs Arteta is just a big snooze fest only way either win is by a set piece or it will end 0-0 again😭
Agreed! 😂
But man would it be satisfying to eliminate them from CL..
I remember that game. That and the one where we drew 1-1 with them from a Titus Bramble goal were low points of that era.
As if we failed to get a shot on target against WIGAN with Torres up top and Steve running the midfield.
Not to mention the misuse of Mascherano….
No striker is not an excuse. City won a league title without a striker. Klopp went to Camp Nou and put in a hell of performance with Gini Wijnaldum at #9.
Slotball is just devoid of any creativity. This is mostly how we play even with a striker.
who gave this excuse?
Plenty of people after the game. Just go to last night’s threads.
they don’t matter when it comes to criticising slotball do they. i don’t see the coach or the players giving any excuses
I didn’t claim they did. I just said generally speaking that having no stiker for last night is not an excuse for this toothless attacking display. We can be happy how we completely nullified them but we did not do any better at the other end of the pitch.
People like to post how we outperformed on xG in every single one of those draws and losses in recent times. When in reality the quality of chances we create every week is horrible. We don’t create cleae cut goal scoring opportunities even with 3 forwards on.
All I am saying is this has gone on for a long long time now and Slot is not getting it any better. It is incredibly worrying for the long run if we continue with this manager and coaching staff. Win, lose or draw this is how we play going forward every single week and last night the xG finally matched the eye test.
I was saying the same last night. This was the same performance we have seen for weeks. It was not any better, just the team we faced happens to be at the top of the table currently. We are utterly toothless and impotent in attack regardless of having a striker available or not. Every one of our goals comes from a moment of individual quality. We do not score team goals
Insua! Totally forgot about that lad.
Did not attempt a shot on target? Like they were purposely not shooting or shooting to miss?
Leiva is one of the guys I feel like played for us forever, but yet somehow kept on playing for quite a few years after leaving.
I was at this game as a steward 😅
And it’s been hailed as an unbelievable performance… it was just less shit than usual
We parked the bus then passed it round the back the whole second half
You can see why Torres wanted to leave
Fairly crazy what losing Xabi did to that team. You look at the rest of it (particularly with Johnson, Agger, Riera and Babel on the bench) and it's arguably stronger than the previous season.
Shocking with that line up! And we hit the post, that isn't considered a shot on target? Only a goal/shit saved by keeper is considered a shot on target? Serious question.
In hockey (pardon my Canadian), a shot that hits the post counts as a shot on target.
Frame is off target, even though it can deflect into the goal.
Schrödinger's shot on target
I miss 7 sub benches with just 3 changes allowed
Looking at that forward line vs the options we had last night, doesn't seem too bad
Ahhhhh I remember this game very well lol
This was my peak fandom I think.
It’s because they didn’t bring N’Gog on
5 yellows
The Greek!!!!! Love that dude
If only Conor had 6 inches more dip in his chip.
I wish we'd just had a long shot straight to the Arsenal keeper just to avoid this stat!
all gakpos shots are on target if not for the defenders legs
Goat Ngog in the bench and zero minutes played? there you go
Solid team that was. It almost won the league!
In 2009/10? No we didn’t. We nearly won it the season before but then sold Xabi and Arbeloa and lost Hyypia on a free.
I understand the semantics - I was referring to that squad of players (minus Xabi) that Benitez assembled in those final years of his time at LFC. I was able to get to a few games at Anfield the season we made the title push.
Does hitting the underside of the bar not count as on target?
on target would be a goal if the ball isn’t stopped. so, no?
Aqualiani, Riera, Ngog and Babel. So much talent for such little return, crazy all 4 failed. I remember the first couple of games watching Riera, I genuinely thought he was going to be absolutely class for us.
It’s a sin that a crossbar doesn’t count
Why should it count? If it doesn’t go in the net with no intervention from a goalkeeper/defender then it’s not on target
Yet we came the closest to scoring
We played not to lose, last night again, which really…. is fucking embarrassing.
Christ. We were missing a bunch of players and going to the best team in the country. We’re only the second team not to lose at the Emirates this season in all competitions and we’re the first to keep a clean sheet there all season.
You have to play the hand you’re dealt. There’s nothing embarrassing about shutting up shop and taking a point away from the champions elect in that situation.
Do you know what the problem is?
We're playing to avoid defeat against Leeds, Wolves, and Forest at ANFIELD.
We’re the champions lad. Yeah players missing, but what we had available is still a decent 11 but we set up/played like a Sean dyche team, as Liverpool is embarrassing regardless. Wanking ourselves off for keeping a clean sheet shows how far we have dropped off.
We had no strikers available. What did you expect? Give your head a wobble.
We have dropped off, but we are also riddled with key injuries/absences.
Expecting us to just play the same as last year is just bloody delusional.
Despite us being a shadow of our former selves, we've still taken 5 points off the league leaders.
Dumbest stat ever. Hit the bar..
Imagine playing Lucas in midfield when you have mascherano lol This was the beginning of rafa's downfall for sure.
Lucas was excellent in that position