Those regulations are not there for fun, they are as OSHA people say "written in blood", or even often in "money gained short term lost long term". This guy may have been taught that's a good thing and it is - if you are scamming clients and just providing bad service. I guess he went so deep into this talking point he thinks it's the truth now and publicly advertised it. Idk, Turkey or not he could get fired for this.
This guy will be saying that until he screws up and gets sued. Then we will be looking for people who actually know what they are doing and follow the rules.
He is an example of a what’s wrong with construction and contractors.
The only reason diamond have any value except as an industrial component is marketing decided first artifical scarcity, the a market campaign to link it to love.
Lmao. didn't clock that he was Turkish and then this became a funny post. This sort of distrust in process combined with the cockiness is funny given the Turkish relationship with construction disasters.
I have spent a little time in turkey i love Turkish food the the people are wonderful but from what I saw by way of the modern architecture I was a bit scared the ancient buildings were wonderful.
Seriously, out of all fields to make this stupid post about he chose civil engineering?! If there's one group of people I want following the rules it's civil engineers...
Yeah it’s crazy I’m a builder, sure there’s corners that can be cut if they aren’t going to cause and safety or build quality issue. But you bet your arse if there’s something structural not properly drawn or outside of our building standards I’m straight on the phone to the engineer or architect. Sure I could likely make something work and jt be fine but I didn’t draw the plans or do the maths I’m just the sucker putting it all together.
Hahaha...at my job I found out we have an auditor from Boeing come in once a year or so. I was explicitly told I wasn't allowed to ask him how many wheels his car has, or if all his windows are intact.
I think he's trying to divide people into two types of intelligence, people that memorize things and can repeat them, and people that are problem solvers. The issue is, GPA isn't a good way of identifying and separating the two groups.
I want someone I can reasonably shift the blame to when the corners the company cuts inevitably puts my job in jeopardy. The 4.0 student is probably following the rules and documenting everything they are told to do outside policy and, importantly, by whom.
By the way, for everyone who is looking to enter or is in any workplace: get it in writing.
Exactly! There are plenty of fields where creativity and outside the box thinking take you far. Designing and building structures that can literally kill people if you don't follow the rules really isn't one of them.
I mean kinda sorta. Still though I don't want you to skip all the PR checks or tests or other validation because "you know better" or "what harm could this do" or "works on my machine" or "this race condition is just theoretical" or "this api never fails" or "n is always small", that's how shit gets more broken.
Haha no not that.
I mean there’s more room for creativity.
CE is strictly prescribed. You can’t get too creative with the piles for a bridge support, water moves according to universal constants, and new ideas have risk of tragedy if they go wrong.
CS… there are piles of data structures and patterns i can use to implement a thing the way I want.
And the risk isn’t usually tragedy - there’s staging env, at that - so lots more room to experiment.
You follow what the regulations tell you to, but that can mean finding the solution that cuts the costs the most (while still being within regulation) and some engineers go to extremes on site. Im a landscape architect and I have to constantly change the drawings to cut costs. Not really cause the solution was too expensive either, just that either someone shat the bed on site that led to more hours used, or they used lost of the money on the building itself, so the outdoor areas get the cuts.
It’s amazing how many pros in many trades are willing to cut corners in a pinch to prevent project delays. Hide the shoddy work as needed to keep things moving. Never seen someone be so open about it though.
Like this screams like “We don’t just use common sense anymore” attitude. Like the old civil engineers that don’t understand why we don’t just dump all the stormwater onto the neighboring property any more and ends up flooding that property and costing their clients millions.
There’s more creativity in civil engineering than you’d think. Sure there’s rules but there are many solutions. People who only want to crunch numbers are useless. It’s not so much about cutting corners, I need you to be creative with your solutions while considering the build cost. It’s super dynamic. As someone who has hired and trained a lot of civil engineers this guy isn’t wrong. He’s dumb just not wrong.
So why does being creative lead to C students? What I see in a C student is an inability to adapt to the problem in front of them. It is not like they solved all problems but did it in a creative way, they literally missed like 30% of the problems they were supposed to solve. An A student does not mean they only solved it one way, it means they solved all problems in front of them with the available tools to them. Hence, an A student is generally more creative than a C student.
Yeah as an academic in a complex area I’m wondering what sort of dodgy university these people went to who are arguing that top students aren’t creative problem solvers. To me a B student understands all the straightforward stuff and an A student has a much deeper understanding so they can use it in more complex real world scenarios and know all the pros and cons of different solutions. A C student doesn’t even understand the basics.
Yeah I was gonna say, I've taught English at A and M schools for most of my career and OOP is making some wild, reductive assumptions about people with 4.0s that don't match my experience. Like, I don't think I could even identify a "type" who has or would have a 4.0 (not that that is the be all end all metric, anyway). People and their talents (and academic performance) are complex and these LinkedIn lunatics are projecting based on their own insecurities
It's so full of shit. the only thing a 4.0 student tells you is they got grades good enough to get a 4.0. This guys post is definitely telling me HE wasn't a 4.0 student and is trying to make himself feel better.
Yeah, in my experience the vast majority of students with such crippling perfectionism will be pushed enough during their undergrad that they either a) mature enough to handle the pressure, building support networks and good habits along the way, or b) flame out entirely, in which case they certainly aren't getting the 4.0.
It's so refreshing to know that I'm not the only one laughing my ass off at my coworkers and the folks in my industry who take their jobs and "marketing themselves" wayyyy seriously.
Cause everyday I open LinkedIn and after 3 minutes of scrolling my eyes roll so far into the back of my head it hurts...
This attitude is endemic among engineers. It’s also why HR has such a big role in hiring. People think they’re way better than they are at evaluating talent in their area of expertise.
It has to be projection. There are plenty of people who did not do as well in school as they end up doing in their careers. But this sounds like a guy who didn’t do all that well in school compared to his peers and has found a way to spin that to where he can still be a special boy, and most importantly, somehow better than the people who did better than him grade-wise.
I actually looked this guys post up and someone made that comment and he deflected with "Come up with a better argument than that." So it is confirmed this guy barely graduated and is now trying to say he is actually better than all of his peers with better grades. Gut check says he is not.
"Oh, you're misunderstanding. That's not the argument. The argument is that you're just talking out your ass with anecdotes, trust-me-bro, and banking on contradiction looking like novelty and cleverness being impossible to tell from folly if you don't have receipts to see whether the long shot actually paid out. The idea that you're just trying to justify your own Cs is the argument post-game analysis."
I can understand what hes trying to get at but at the same time there are 4.0 students that are problem solvers, and there are 2.0 students that dgaf. The greater takeaway should be that GPA is not the end all be all metric
As a former tutor I can say with total confidence, the vast majority of people shitting themselves over being wrong are at the bottom end of the curve because it's easier to give up when you're faced with that kind of internal pressure. The perfectionists need to have figured out problem solving is part of it to make it through highschool or a college degree without fracturing.
It’s also hilarious to say your typical C student is a problem solver.
Yeah sure maybe they are, but guess what problem they sure as hell can’t solve? The problem of getting a decent grade in college…almost certainly the biggest problem they are facing, professionally, as a college student.
Grades are literally a measure of a specific kind of problem solving!
I can't actually understand what he's trying to get at.
I understand what you're trying to get at, and you sound like a sane person who makes sense. But I'm sorry to say that your version has no relation whatsoever to the OOP.
You literally can’t get a degree in engineering without being a problem solver. It’s the entire point of the degree. 4.0 students are the best problem solvers and go on to get the best jobs.
Edit. I’m not at all saying that students with lower GPAs can’t also be great engineers. Once they get their first job, GPA becomes irrelevant.
Not necessarily. When I did my undergrad in mechanical engineering I knew folks who had a 4.0 gpa but also had negative charisma and had tons of trouble finding a job after graduating because they literally could not communicate their accomplishments. You need people skills to get the best jobs.
Yeah, I’m sure they’re out there. All the 4.0s in my class were super dynamic, well rounded, great people on top of being great students. I hated them lol.
Exactly. What's not understood here is that many class projects contribute to the GPA, not just textbooks and exams. Many of those projects require resourcefulness and creativity.
For students/interns, I usually look at what clubs and extracurriculars they are into.
I’m my experience the person who does nothing but make sure they have a 4.0 is less capable than the person who’s been getting ok grades and built a Tesla coil or Ruben’s tube for the fun of it.
This. Usually good but not great marks and some extra curriculars, especially in a group or team setting will perform better than the best test scores.
I teach college math and can say for certain that while bad grades don’t necessarily mean you’re unmotivated and/or struggle with problem solving, THERE IS A CORRELATION.
Struggling with math problems on an exam being an indication that you’re a better problem solver is a new one.
I was a C student in upper level math courses (think Differential Equations, etc) and I showed up every class, asked questions, and busted my head against solid objects and did the rote work and I was still…..a C student. There was a mantra when I was in engineering classes that C’s get degrees, because the classes were absolutely designed to brutalize you. Wasn’t personal, just was.
Yeah. There are some fields where sometimes, being creative and flexible is importing to get things done on time. I don’t think civil engineering is one of those fields, I don’t want to be in the building where the engineers cut corners in order to finish on time…
I'm a civil engineer. More than that, I am president of a civil engineering company. I want the 3.5-4.0 students because they give a shit more reliably than the lower GPA kids. Ultimately, civil engineering is a solved profession, so we need people who are dedicated to finding the right answers, because those answers mostly already exist. And "getting the pipe installed by the end of the day" is gonna get your 4.0 folks more motivated than your 3.0 folks, since the 4.0 folks hate not being able to answer the call. This post is dogshit.
Signed, a civil engineer with a 3.2 GPA 20 years ago.
They think that kids with perfect GPAs can't find creative solutions? This smacks of someone who didn't do well in school and wants to feel good about it now.
”A 4.0 GPA tells me you are excellent at following rules”
Yeah, math and physics typically have a lot of rules, and not following them is the easiest way to get a 2.0 GPA. We had a name for people who didn’t follow the rules in our engineering program: pre-business majors.
I agree with the general sentiment, to a limited extent. I've interviewed a lot of undergrads and grad students for summer internships and entry level engineering jobs, and supervised several after we hired them. There's a subtype with exceptional grades but absolutely no real-world work experience, and those folks often have a hard time working well with others and end up struggling when given a real world problem where there is no "perfect" solution. They have a hard time transitioning from academia to industry.
In my experience the most successful are those with good but not exceptional GPAs and some extracurriculars, especially those involving groups or teams.
I don't want a moron designing bridges in my opinion. Those sorts of structures end up falling apart when they are full of people when designed badly.
A 4.0 GPA means the guy can pay attention and retain relevant info. NASA lost an entire Mars orbiter in 1999 because a careless contractor submitted calculations in a customary system unit (foot pounds) when NASA does everything in metric (newtons) A 4.0 GPA type person wouldn't make a mistake like that.
I say this as a college drop out. The main problem the C student is solving is how to go home on time. Whether that means that pipe in the ground is kosher or not is another matter.
That's expressed poorly, but he's not entirely wrong. Problem solving is the heart of actual engineering practice, and it's taught badly, if at all. You certainly can excel in school and be a useless engineer, or vice versa.
Stupid. I know people who get As easy. School is not hard for everyone. My kid is a good example… critical thinking skills along with a perfect phonetic memory. She just reads aloud her notes and has them in there. Allows her to be very artistic with all her other free time.
Sometimes you figure out what the rules should be after the forest failure…but there’s a reason for them. And that reason isn’t just to limit how much money businesses can make.
Stupid take. Good grades could mean the person is good at adapting and learning quickly. That person understands the requirements in any given situation and delivers quality.
Lower grades don't necessarily mean a worst employee, but good ones are not a "red flag", that's just a weird thing to say.
I have a feeling Mehmet had terrible grades and is trying to justify his failure at school.
Ugh I came across this nonsense in the wild before. I have a First Class Honours for my undergrad (in the UK, roughly equivalent to a 4.0 GPA, but obviously depends on the institution, etc) and was told by multiple interviewers that they didn't like to hire people with firsts because they were "book smart but no common sense".
I am sick of the « all mediocre students are free thinking geniuses » trope. Have they considered that some people are just a bit lazy, and not necessarily brilliant innovators as a consequence?
This guy doesn't want an engineer. He wants a hack.
A B/C student who worked two crap jobs at weird hours to put themselves through school is probably going to be a real engineering hero and possibly maybe better than a 4.0 student. But a 4.0 engineer didn't earn that by mailing in the effort.
After about 2 years of being an engineer, no one cares what your GPA was.
Major construction firms, where 4.0 GPA civil engineers work, is subject to extreme but necessary oversight on feasibility and sustainability issues. Adaptability is part of both feasibility and sustainability evaluations. There is no cutting corners or finding quick solutions, unless you want problems with the upper management of the World Bank or the Chinese government (aka. the Belt and Road Initiative).
I bet this Linkedin influencer thinks building a house is the pinnacle of civil engineering.
There’s also a big difference between a 4.0 and a C average - that’s like a 2.0. Grades aren’t everything but there’s a big difference in graduating with a 3.5 and a 2.0 lmao
Ah yes let's hire the 1.8 gpa person instead and get a bridge built, collapses before it even reaches 1 year, and blame the engineer instead of hr for the hire.
I honestly cant imagine writing this and thinking "yea, this should be made public" the guy just feeling self conscious about his 2.3 in college and needs to justify it
Because when you're starting out and don't have much experience to put on your resume, school career services tell you to include your GPA so you have at least something you hope will catch a recruiter's eye.
in law school I heard the saying (something like this): all the A students make professor. all the B students make the bench. All the C students make the money.
To simplify this and make it more clear, “I don’t usually hire the best candidate and I want a way to justify that.”
It’s one thing to say there are other factors that are more important than GPA, it’s another thing to say that a good GPA means you cannot be good at those other things. The guy who “talks to the foreman” and gets the job done probably also got an A.
This screams “I couldn’t get a 4.0” In what universe is someone smarter than you a red flag? Well I guess I can answer that for you… the toxic boss who needs to feel like the smartest guy in the room. I’ve worked for them.
Yeah, it's really weird this guy chose civil engineering as the example.
I think this argument is generally dubious just because grades have always been one of many "data points" used to evaluate someone's fitness for a role (or at least they should be).
But I could sort of see this argument possibly making sense in some roles. If you work in advertising or marketing or something, you could make a case that unorthodox, "outside the box" thinking is really important, and that this talent isn't necessarily reflected in a GPA.
But building bridges isn't something that I want people to be creative with. The force of gravity and the load bearing properties of Portland cement aren't things that need to be creatively understood. I just need them to be applied safely and consistently.
If you want to think outside the box, there are many jobs that can reward your creativity. But building things like a highway tunnel probably isn't the job for you.
I like my pastry chefs to be adaptable. Out of jam? Maybe a marmalade glaze would work better!
I don’t want my civil engineers to be adaptable. Please always use the one right answer when building a bridge. I don’t need new and creative infrastructure, thanks
I’m not convinced that creativity correlates with GPA very well, but I assure you that my most talented engineers have been consistently talented including in school.
It’s best if you have a 3.69 GPA. It shows you’ll never get even and you’re odd enough to find the right answer. I dunno what I’m talking about, I dropped out my senior year.
This is a person thinking that tests don’t reflect real problems.
That’s idiotic; it’s literally a part of the process to make it relevant. It simply isn’t in the first or second stages of teaching, because students need context.
It reads like someone who finished instruction poorly.
I can understand his point- we tell the kids in the family not to worry so much about getting perfect grades- but they're already very smart, driven and disciplined. We just don't want them to beat themselves up if they fall short of "perfect."
This guy was a below A student who now is justifying those grades as something more attractive than simply getting the best grades you can. The worst part is those grades don't really have any bearing, at all, on your work performance.
I thought a lot of being a civil engineer was literally following the rules?
Dude wants to hire people who cut corners and collapse buildings?
[removed]
Those regulations are not there for fun, they are as OSHA people say "written in blood", or even often in "money gained short term lost long term". This guy may have been taught that's a good thing and it is - if you are scamming clients and just providing bad service. I guess he went so deep into this talking point he thinks it's the truth now and publicly advertised it. Idk, Turkey or not he could get fired for this.
This guy will be saying that until he screws up and gets sued. Then we will be looking for people who actually know what they are doing and follow the rules. He is an example of a what’s wrong with construction and contractors.
nah he'll get a promotion. he works for the pipeline bro.
Don't put yourself and your country down like that. Instead say that you have a "long and noble tradition of collapsing buildings."
Remember, everything is a good thing if you phrase it right.
You sound just like our president. Have you ever considered going in to politics?
Marketing is EVERYTHING
Years ago spotted diamonds/ yellow diamonds etc etc were considered "bad" or " lower quality"
Now they are amongst the most desired. Just because they were marketed differently. Now they are leopard spotted or champaign diamonds.
This is just one example. There are tons.
My favorite is Viagra. It's a pill designed to help diagnose heart conditions. It had value as that product. But so much more value as a boner pill.
The only reason diamond have any value except as an industrial component is marketing decided first artifical scarcity, the a market campaign to link it to love.
Lmao. didn't clock that he was Turkish and then this became a funny post. This sort of distrust in process combined with the cockiness is funny given the Turkish relationship with construction disasters.
The only time a Turkish building won't collapse is when they're trying to pull it down.
Or, ya know, if it's built by engineers for engineers and not by cheap contractors/project owners lol
Turkish Construction Engineering Society Building made it through the earthquake they had a few years ago and not much else did in that neighborhood.
Lunatic Ronin
Too many 4.0 students, probably
I have spent a little time in turkey i love Turkish food the the people are wonderful but from what I saw by way of the modern architecture I was a bit scared the ancient buildings were wonderful.
Seriously, out of all fields to make this stupid post about he chose civil engineering?! If there's one group of people I want following the rules it's civil engineers...
Yeah it’s crazy I’m a builder, sure there’s corners that can be cut if they aren’t going to cause and safety or build quality issue. But you bet your arse if there’s something structural not properly drawn or outside of our building standards I’m straight on the phone to the engineer or architect. Sure I could likely make something work and jt be fine but I didn’t draw the plans or do the maths I’m just the sucker putting it all together.
Yeah he's looking for an architect. Civil engineers are the ones that make the architects creativity work.
That’s how I read this: I want to hire guys who will ignore safety protocols to get things done.
This man should build discount submarines for rich people.
That’s one way to solve two problems at once.
Or join Boeing...
Hahaha...at my job I found out we have an auditor from Boeing come in once a year or so. I was explicitly told I wasn't allowed to ask him how many wheels his car has, or if all his windows are intact.
But you weren’t told you can’t check his laptop to make sure all the screws are there.
I read it as "I'm not willing to pay the premium top students demand, so I'm disguising a bug as a feature"
Imagine being this guy’s customer and reading this post. Sleep well knowing your new office building could collapse at any moment!
I think he's trying to divide people into two types of intelligence, people that memorize things and can repeat them, and people that are problem solvers. The issue is, GPA isn't a good way of identifying and separating the two groups.
I want someone I can reasonably shift the blame to when the corners the company cuts inevitably puts my job in jeopardy. The 4.0 student is probably following the rules and documenting everything they are told to do outside policy and, importantly, by whom.
By the way, for everyone who is looking to enter or is in any workplace: get it in writing.
Really? I read it like "My GPA was shit and I've convinced myself that's actually a good thing."
Yeah, any moron in civil engineering knows that adaptability still has to follow all the rules, or people die. His entire point is void.
The guy has a point, but you have a correct point.
He might just be in the wrong line of work.
Source: I started in CE but bailed because I think like that guy, and CE isn’t the place for that.
Compsci is waaaay more spicy.
Exactly! There are plenty of fields where creativity and outside the box thinking take you far. Designing and building structures that can literally kill people if you don't follow the rules really isn't one of them.
I mean kinda sorta. Still though I don't want you to skip all the PR checks or tests or other validation because "you know better" or "what harm could this do" or "works on my machine" or "this race condition is just theoretical" or "this api never fails" or "n is always small", that's how shit gets more broken.
Haha no not that.
I mean there’s more room for creativity.
CE is strictly prescribed. You can’t get too creative with the piles for a bridge support, water moves according to universal constants, and new ideas have risk of tragedy if they go wrong.
CS… there are piles of data structures and patterns i can use to implement a thing the way I want.
And the risk isn’t usually tragedy - there’s staging env, at that - so lots more room to experiment.
You follow what the regulations tell you to, but that can mean finding the solution that cuts the costs the most (while still being within regulation) and some engineers go to extremes on site. Im a landscape architect and I have to constantly change the drawings to cut costs. Not really cause the solution was too expensive either, just that either someone shat the bed on site that led to more hours used, or they used lost of the money on the building itself, so the outdoor areas get the cuts.
Anyone can build a bridge that won’t fall but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that will almost fall but won’t.
It’s amazing how many pros in many trades are willing to cut corners in a pinch to prevent project delays. Hide the shoddy work as needed to keep things moving. Never seen someone be so open about it though.
Right?
Like this screams like “We don’t just use common sense anymore” attitude. Like the old civil engineers that don’t understand why we don’t just dump all the stormwater onto the neighboring property any more and ends up flooding that property and costing their clients millions.
There’s more creativity in civil engineering than you’d think. Sure there’s rules but there are many solutions. People who only want to crunch numbers are useless. It’s not so much about cutting corners, I need you to be creative with your solutions while considering the build cost. It’s super dynamic. As someone who has hired and trained a lot of civil engineers this guy isn’t wrong. He’s dumb just not wrong.
Structural engineering is different.
So why does being creative lead to C students? What I see in a C student is an inability to adapt to the problem in front of them. It is not like they solved all problems but did it in a creative way, they literally missed like 30% of the problems they were supposed to solve. An A student does not mean they only solved it one way, it means they solved all problems in front of them with the available tools to them. Hence, an A student is generally more creative than a C student.
Yeah as an academic in a complex area I’m wondering what sort of dodgy university these people went to who are arguing that top students aren’t creative problem solvers. To me a B student understands all the straightforward stuff and an A student has a much deeper understanding so they can use it in more complex real world scenarios and know all the pros and cons of different solutions. A C student doesn’t even understand the basics.
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve read so far today.
Seriously. I need to unsub. Every post I read just agries up the blood. Knowing that so many people think like these LinkedIn people do is scary
Funny enough I’m currently at a large university graduation and the top graduates are not being like this jackass would make believe.
Yeah I was gonna say, I've taught English at A and M schools for most of my career and OOP is making some wild, reductive assumptions about people with 4.0s that don't match my experience. Like, I don't think I could even identify a "type" who has or would have a 4.0 (not that that is the be all end all metric, anyway). People and their talents (and academic performance) are complex and these LinkedIn lunatics are projecting based on their own insecurities
It's so full of shit. the only thing a 4.0 student tells you is they got grades good enough to get a 4.0. This guys post is definitely telling me HE wasn't a 4.0 student and is trying to make himself feel better.
That was my first thought - Mehmet didn't get the GPA his parents expected him to, and still has a chip on his shoulder about it.
Yeah, in my experience the vast majority of students with such crippling perfectionism will be pushed enough during their undergrad that they either a) mature enough to handle the pressure, building support networks and good habits along the way, or b) flame out entirely, in which case they certainly aren't getting the 4.0.
This sub helps me keep my sanity...
It's so refreshing to know that I'm not the only one laughing my ass off at my coworkers and the folks in my industry who take their jobs and "marketing themselves" wayyyy seriously.
Cause everyday I open LinkedIn and after 3 minutes of scrolling my eyes roll so far into the back of my head it hurts...
A lot of people love to agree with whatever makes them feel like part of the in group.
The day is still young…
As a teacher I can confirm that this is the dumbest shit you’ll read today.
This attitude is endemic among engineers. It’s also why HR has such a big role in hiring. People think they’re way better than they are at evaluating talent in their area of expertise.
Hahahaha an engineer telling us that overachievers are red flags…fuck off
He just outed himself as a C student
It has to be projection. There are plenty of people who did not do as well in school as they end up doing in their careers. But this sounds like a guy who didn’t do all that well in school compared to his peers and has found a way to spin that to where he can still be a special boy, and most importantly, somehow better than the people who did better than him grade-wise.
I actually looked this guys post up and someone made that comment and he deflected with "Come up with a better argument than that." So it is confirmed this guy barely graduated and is now trying to say he is actually better than all of his peers with better grades. Gut check says he is not.
Granted, I wasn't there, but...
"Oh, you're misunderstanding. That's not the argument. The argument is that you're just talking out your ass with anecdotes, trust-me-bro, and banking on contradiction looking like novelty and cleverness being impossible to tell from folly if you don't have receipts to see whether the long shot actually paid out. The idea that you're just trying to justify your own Cs is the argument post-game analysis."
Thing is, he’s too stupid to realize just HOW stupid he is. Dude is all over the place and contradicts himself throughout this rant. Sad.
This whole thing is absolute weapons grade cope. "You have to understand, people who did better than me are bad actually"
He's a civil engineer. In a country that (sadly) has a real infrastructure problem where collapsing buildings is not exactly a rarity
This guy ain't no over achiever
I can understand what hes trying to get at but at the same time there are 4.0 students that are problem solvers, and there are 2.0 students that dgaf. The greater takeaway should be that GPA is not the end all be all metric
As a former tutor I can say with total confidence, the vast majority of people shitting themselves over being wrong are at the bottom end of the curve because it's easier to give up when you're faced with that kind of internal pressure. The perfectionists need to have figured out problem solving is part of it to make it through highschool or a college degree without fracturing.
Yup.
It’s also hilarious to say your typical C student is a problem solver.
Yeah sure maybe they are, but guess what problem they sure as hell can’t solve? The problem of getting a decent grade in college…almost certainly the biggest problem they are facing, professionally, as a college student.
Grades are literally a measure of a specific kind of problem solving!
Nu uh
I can't actually understand what he's trying to get at.
I understand what you're trying to get at, and you sound like a sane person who makes sense. But I'm sorry to say that your version has no relation whatsoever to the OOP.
You literally can’t get a degree in engineering without being a problem solver. It’s the entire point of the degree. 4.0 students are the best problem solvers and go on to get the best jobs.
Edit. I’m not at all saying that students with lower GPAs can’t also be great engineers. Once they get their first job, GPA becomes irrelevant.
Not necessarily. When I did my undergrad in mechanical engineering I knew folks who had a 4.0 gpa but also had negative charisma and had tons of trouble finding a job after graduating because they literally could not communicate their accomplishments. You need people skills to get the best jobs.
Yeah, I’m sure they’re out there. All the 4.0s in my class were super dynamic, well rounded, great people on top of being great students. I hated them lol.
Exactly. What's not understood here is that many class projects contribute to the GPA, not just textbooks and exams. Many of those projects require resourcefulness and creativity.
For students/interns, I usually look at what clubs and extracurriculars they are into.
I’m my experience the person who does nothing but make sure they have a 4.0 is less capable than the person who’s been getting ok grades and built a Tesla coil or Ruben’s tube for the fun of it.
In what clubs do you build Tesla coils and Reuben tubes? My options were like chess or theater.
This. Usually good but not great marks and some extra curriculars, especially in a group or team setting will perform better than the best test scores.
Oh god yes. Give me a good team worker over any of these people raised to be better than everyone.
I can help you be as good as you need to, but not if you’re trying to beat anyone and everyone else.
I teach college math and can say for certain that while bad grades don’t necessarily mean you’re unmotivated and/or struggle with problem solving, THERE IS A CORRELATION.
Struggling with math problems on an exam being an indication that you’re a better problem solver is a new one.
A C student may or may not even show up.
I was a C student in upper level math courses (think Differential Equations, etc) and I showed up every class, asked questions, and busted my head against solid objects and did the rote work and I was still…..a C student. There was a mantra when I was in engineering classes that C’s get degrees, because the classes were absolutely designed to brutalize you. Wasn’t personal, just was.
+1.
I would be petrified if a civil engineer would tell me they “don’t value perfection.”
Yeah. There are some fields where sometimes, being creative and flexible is importing to get things done on time. I don’t think civil engineering is one of those fields, I don’t want to be in the building where the engineers cut corners in order to finish on time…
I'm a civil engineer. More than that, I am president of a civil engineering company. I want the 3.5-4.0 students because they give a shit more reliably than the lower GPA kids. Ultimately, civil engineering is a solved profession, so we need people who are dedicated to finding the right answers, because those answers mostly already exist. And "getting the pipe installed by the end of the day" is gonna get your 4.0 folks more motivated than your 3.0 folks, since the 4.0 folks hate not being able to answer the call. This post is dogshit.
Signed, a civil engineer with a 3.2 GPA 20 years ago.
“Be worse and I’ll hire you”
So they can offer less salary
More likely so they won’t challenge his ego.
The world is not filled with rational actors.
Would have saved a lot of typing to just say that he's intimidated by people who are smarter than he is.
OSHA would like a word
They think that kids with perfect GPAs can't find creative solutions? This smacks of someone who didn't do well in school and wants to feel good about it now.
That's... Most LinkedIn posts?
”A 4.0 GPA tells me you are excellent at following rules”
Yeah, math and physics typically have a lot of rules, and not following them is the easiest way to get a 2.0 GPA. We had a name for people who didn’t follow the rules in our engineering program: pre-business majors.
30-something year old on linkedin thinks he found the secret sauce to a profession that dates back to Ancient Egypt (or earlier).
Who would have known that my 2.8 GPA would have made me a perfect candidate.
Hell yea I must be a top candidate with my 3.1 lol
Yikes. This guy can't get over the fact that other students scored higher than him.
4.0 GPAers living rent-free in his head, decades later.
These people will literally post ANYTHING for attention these days.
Me with 2.4 gpa: * builds a wall * Supervisor: that's the middle of room Me: that's an extra room now. I adapt. I don't follow the rules.
C students are better than A students. This is gold
Hey! Some of us C students were just lazy. Doesn’t mean we were not great workers when we’re getting paid to do something worthwhile.
Doesn’t matter, mehmet isn’t the decision maker, he just posts cringe.
As someone who got lousy grades myself, I have no patience whatsoever with people who shit on excellence.
If people who are smarter than you want to work for you, that's a sign of success worth being proud of.
If they don't... don't brag about it.
"A 4.0 tells me youre smarter than me and Im insecure."
Fixed it.
This is what people with a 2.8 GPA would say,
he’s an idiot
"Good grades are bad actually" is certainly a take.
Anyone who uses any sort of gpa for hiring is a clown.
It makes sense for entry level positions but after that experience obviously matters much more
I would image construction does reward perfection since the project is built correctly.
I agree with the general sentiment, to a limited extent. I've interviewed a lot of undergrads and grad students for summer internships and entry level engineering jobs, and supervised several after we hired them. There's a subtype with exceptional grades but absolutely no real-world work experience, and those folks often have a hard time working well with others and end up struggling when given a real world problem where there is no "perfect" solution. They have a hard time transitioning from academia to industry.
In my experience the most successful are those with good but not exceptional GPAs and some extracurriculars, especially those involving groups or teams.
Remember students, rule #1 of civil engineering is to play by your own rules.
Sounds like a guy that had a 2.1 GPA.
Potential Employer: A student, I’ll never hire you go back to school professor
B student, looks at student sideways skeptically
C student, come on home! You’re just the type we’re looking for! Didn’t learn all the concepts thoroughly don’t worry neither did I and look at me!
Sounds like a 4.0 is exactly what every management ever wants.
Also a Civil Engineer that doesn't follow rules is an oxymoron.
Afraid of being wrong?
There is only one answer in tests and schoolwork, dipshit. Does this guy not understand how school works?
The C student is going to wait until the last minute, do the bare minimum, and mention NOTHING to the foreman.
As someone who regularly crosses a bridge, I hope most people hiring engineers don't favor C students.
I don't want a moron designing bridges in my opinion. Those sorts of structures end up falling apart when they are full of people when designed badly.
A 4.0 GPA means the guy can pay attention and retain relevant info. NASA lost an entire Mars orbiter in 1999 because a careless contractor submitted calculations in a customary system unit (foot pounds) when NASA does everything in metric (newtons) A 4.0 GPA type person wouldn't make a mistake like that.
This dude never graduated from high school and it shows.
I say this as a college drop out. The main problem the C student is solving is how to go home on time. Whether that means that pipe in the ground is kosher or not is another matter.
Having a 4.0 GPA means you cared about getting a 4.0 GPA and had the follow through to get it. Nothing more nothing less
That's expressed poorly, but he's not entirely wrong. Problem solving is the heart of actual engineering practice, and it's taught badly, if at all. You certainly can excel in school and be a useless engineer, or vice versa.
Weird way of saying he barely passed his classes.
What I take away from these posts is: nothing will ever be good enough.
Answer the phone after the first ring? Too eager.
Answer after the third ring? Lazy.
Ask about salary? No sense of work-life balance.
Don’t ask about salary? No interest in self-management.
Showed up to the interview early? Can’t manage time.
Showed up to the interview on time? Can’t manage time.
HR loved how you answered every question? Too perfect and likely to fail.
HR hated how you answered every question? Worst candidate ever.
Isn’t taking a test just solving a problem?
We now know that Mahmet was a C student.
Stupid. I know people who get As easy. School is not hard for everyone. My kid is a good example… critical thinking skills along with a perfect phonetic memory. She just reads aloud her notes and has them in there. Allows her to be very artistic with all her other free time.
This asshole gets his job sites red tagged regularly, guaranteed.
Is this the mantra he tells himself in the mirror every day make him feel better about himself?
Tacoma Narrows Bridge.
Sometimes you figure out what the rules should be after the forest failure…but there’s a reason for them. And that reason isn’t just to limit how much money businesses can make.
Sounds like someone is afraid of hiring somebody smarter than themselves…
Stupid take. Good grades could mean the person is good at adapting and learning quickly. That person understands the requirements in any given situation and delivers quality.
Lower grades don't necessarily mean a worst employee, but good ones are not a "red flag", that's just a weird thing to say.
I have a feeling Mehmet had terrible grades and is trying to justify his failure at school.
How to make something with a grain of truth into a whole cabbage patch of just wrong.
Ugh I came across this nonsense in the wild before. I have a First Class Honours for my undergrad (in the UK, roughly equivalent to a 4.0 GPA, but obviously depends on the institution, etc) and was told by multiple interviewers that they didn't like to hire people with firsts because they were "book smart but no common sense".
Yeah, those two aren't mutually exclusive.
The added little comedy is probably in the comments where all the other engineering disciplines take shots at civies.
Doesn’t school teach you to be adaptable. Why not just speak to the candidate, rather than judging them based on their grades.
I am sick of the « all mediocre students are free thinking geniuses » trope. Have they considered that some people are just a bit lazy, and not necessarily brilliant innovators as a consequence?
Sounds like a guy who got shitty grades.
This guy doesn't want an engineer. He wants a hack.
A B/C student who worked two crap jobs at weird hours to put themselves through school is probably going to be a real engineering hero and possibly maybe better than a 4.0 student. But a 4.0 engineer didn't earn that by mailing in the effort.
After about 2 years of being an engineer, no one cares what your GPA was.
"I barely graduated with (insert minimum passing score of his country)" ahh post
Well there it is. It's literally the dumbest thing i think I'll see all day. And it's not even 7am.
Major construction firms, where 4.0 GPA civil engineers work, is subject to extreme but necessary oversight on feasibility and sustainability issues. Adaptability is part of both feasibility and sustainability evaluations. There is no cutting corners or finding quick solutions, unless you want problems with the upper management of the World Bank or the Chinese government (aka. the Belt and Road Initiative).
I bet this Linkedin influencer thinks building a house is the pinnacle of civil engineering.
isn’t construction like, one of the most regulated industries for good reason???
All you do is follow rules because not doing so gets people killed.
LinkedIn is packed to the rafters with people you’d never want to work with, or for.
Unable to make a point without generalizing a group of people is a red flag.
Sounds like a post from a dude who was really self-conscious of his non-4.0
This guy was a garbage student and is so jealous of the actual smart ones.
Shit mid level managers write
When hiring an engineer, the most important part of the job is how big of a rounding error they will allow.
It’s a good thing people with a 4.0 GPA don’t tend to put pipes in the ground for a living.
It's almost like you should be following the rules and following the laws to avoid lawsuits and design safe infrastructure in civil engineering lol
There’s also a big difference between a 4.0 and a C average - that’s like a 2.0. Grades aren’t everything but there’s a big difference in graduating with a 3.5 and a 2.0 lmao
Ah yes let's hire the 1.8 gpa person instead and get a bridge built, collapses before it even reaches 1 year, and blame the engineer instead of hr for the hire.
Time to reexamine all the overpasses and bridges Mehmet Atici was responsible for.
He's just trying to justify getting shit grades
I honestly cant imagine writing this and thinking "yea, this should be made public" the guy just feeling self conscious about his 2.3 in college and needs to justify it
I have never understood why anyone includes their GPA. I was a "C" student, and that has nothing to do with my work abilities.
Because when you're starting out and don't have much experience to put on your resume, school career services tell you to include your GPA so you have at least something you hope will catch a recruiter's eye.
Probably someone with a 4.0 GPA did not accept their offer.
in law school I heard the saying (something like this): all the A students make professor. all the B students make the bench. All the C students make the money.
or something like that.
I, by the way, managed none of those lol
If you’re so dumb you think you can tell anything about a person from this one piece of information; you’re the red flag. 🚩
Tell me you were a C student without telling me you were a C student.
What an insufferable wanker!
Is t civil engineering one of those things that does reward rule following?
Professional yappers
If this guy likes lower GPAd, then he’d love me
To simplify this and make it more clear, “I don’t usually hire the best candidate and I want a way to justify that.”
It’s one thing to say there are other factors that are more important than GPA, it’s another thing to say that a good GPA means you cannot be good at those other things. The guy who “talks to the foreman” and gets the job done probably also got an A.
I just lie about my grades and they never ever look deeper than that
Long explanation for “I bought my engineering degree online”.
This screams “I couldn’t get a 4.0” In what universe is someone smarter than you a red flag? Well I guess I can answer that for you… the toxic boss who needs to feel like the smartest guy in the room. I’ve worked for them.
There's just no winning, is there
Yeah, it's really weird this guy chose civil engineering as the example.
I think this argument is generally dubious just because grades have always been one of many "data points" used to evaluate someone's fitness for a role (or at least they should be).
But I could sort of see this argument possibly making sense in some roles. If you work in advertising or marketing or something, you could make a case that unorthodox, "outside the box" thinking is really important, and that this talent isn't necessarily reflected in a GPA.
But building bridges isn't something that I want people to be creative with. The force of gravity and the load bearing properties of Portland cement aren't things that need to be creatively understood. I just need them to be applied safely and consistently.
If you want to think outside the box, there are many jobs that can reward your creativity. But building things like a highway tunnel probably isn't the job for you.
Someone got a 3.9 and will be salty about it FOREVER.
I like my pastry chefs to be adaptable. Out of jam? Maybe a marmalade glaze would work better!
I don’t want my civil engineers to be adaptable. Please always use the one right answer when building a bridge. I don’t need new and creative infrastructure, thanks
laughs in 4.0 GPA engineering VP
I’m not convinced that creativity correlates with GPA very well, but I assure you that my most talented engineers have been consistently talented including in school.
I disagree with what he’s saying. But at the same time, as RoanokeGaming says “C’s get degrees”
What is this AI written slop
"The F students are inventors" ahh
“Old man yells at cloud” energy.
I don't want to be anywhere near a building this dude has built.
Civil engineering is all about rules..for goodness sakes!
This guy is a clown.
"construction does not reward perfection" ?! YES IT DOES
That’s a lot of words for “I was always jealous of the 4.0 GPA people and now I’m going to try and make it a “liability”.
$5 says he spelled liability wrong at least twice on graded work.
Really convoluted way of expressing that you had a shitty GPA
Someone is still salty about their less than perfect GPA and is bound and determined to take it out on everyone around them.
No wonder those new tall buildings in Manhattan never work properly... I guess the engineers are like this lunatic...
"You're not gonna have a professor to ask in the real world. You're gonna have to grow up and ask the foreman."
Furthermore, Carthage must be destroyed.
You guys are arguing with a ChatGPT post
I would like Civil Engineers to follow the rules please. People tend to die in large numbers when they don’t.
It’s best if you have a 3.69 GPA. It shows you’ll never get even and you’re odd enough to find the right answer. I dunno what I’m talking about, I dropped out my senior year.
This is a person thinking that tests don’t reflect real problems.
That’s idiotic; it’s literally a part of the process to make it relevant. It simply isn’t in the first or second stages of teaching, because students need context.
It reads like someone who finished instruction poorly.
You want someone you feel you can pay less. 😂
Construction and engineering is literally one of the worst possible indsutries to break rules and not be by the books on. Clearly a 2.0 GPA guy 😂
Someone's insecurities are showing.
When I have a project, what I’m looking for is a C student engineer.
Sounds like someone who didn’t have a 4.0 GPA…
Only in America is incompetence a good thing.
So insufferable. Spoken like a C- student.
I can understand his point- we tell the kids in the family not to worry so much about getting perfect grades- but they're already very smart, driven and disciplined. We just don't want them to beat themselves up if they fall short of "perfect."
C student copium
This guy was a below A student who now is justifying those grades as something more attractive than simply getting the best grades you can. The worst part is those grades don't really have any bearing, at all, on your work performance.
This is so true. Smart people are terrible problem solvers. /s
Cope for feeling his grades were inadequate, this feeling he’s inadequate
I hope the guy posting this owns his own company because posting this is a fireable offense.