I made a comment on this a day ago and decided to expand on it a bit more. To say I'm a big fan of the God of War games might be an understatement. Ever since, as a young lad, I first laid eyes upon Kratos lying in bed with two naked women besides him and nonchalantly shoving away one of them caressing him, so he could fight the Hydra causing turmoil on the ship and kill it using the masts of the ship, I was hooked. I had seen differents QTEs in different games prior but never on this level. (Greek) Kratos was, and still is, the prime definition of a videogame badass for me. These games took the "epic" in Greek Epic to another level.
So, years later, having played all GoW games except Ascension I saw the trailer for God of War 2018, taking place in the Nordic realms - Thor, Odin, Asgard, all that jazz. I was stoked as hell. I still remember fantasizing about all the ways Kratos could kill Thor (likely with his own hammer) and having fullblown discussions with a buddy of mine about the trailer.
Enter GoW (2018): The game dropped, critical acclaim all-around, champagne popping everywhere (I vividly recall IGN giving it a 10 out of 10 - Masterpiece and getting excited). Everyone and their grandmas were doing backflips for this game, boy, was it great... Interestingly though, there was one YouTuber who I frequently watched and enjoyed, by the name of Caddicurus, who gave the game a 7/10... Weird. Years later, I would come to share a similar rating but, at the time, seeing this guy step away from all the hype and popular opinion to give his own opinion was quite weird to me. This game was universally praised by fans and critics alike, of course, nowadays that type of praise just makes me skeptical but years ago I wanted to see how great this game was (having played 5 of 6 of the Greek games) and when I got my PS4 I finally did.
The first thing I noticed was that this game had Kratos in it, and that was essentially where the similarity with previous games ends. There was barely any gory, over-the-top violence and finishers or nudity, but sure.. this is 'evolved' and 'more mature' Kratos with a kid, so I said "sure, why not?" It then became obvious that this game's theme did not pertain to the badassery of old, but to one of sentimentality and feelings. The plot was essentially Kratos' journey to fulfill the wish of his dead wife (reminds me of Butcher from Amazon's The Boys).
On the gameplay side, the Norse realms just felt vacuous compared to the mythologically-rich Greek games (heck, there were able to pump out SIX games just from Greek myth). In GoW 2018 you fight Baldur like two times and again as the final boss. There are no grand spectacles like a Titan carrying a giant temple on it's back, Archimede's giant Apollo statue you traverse and reassemble or the giant mechanized snakes leading to the Oracle of Delphi, just plain wood and stone structures (apparently, even the Golden Asgard of myth is like this in the sequel). There are no giant characters or boss fights like Cronos, giant statue at the start of GoW 2, Fury Queen, etc. (but there's a dead giant just lying in ice in GoW 2018). The Centaurs who are strong mob bosses in Greek games I've come to learn are now Stalkers in Ragnarok. One is a black half-woman half-horse with a shaved-head boss you fight 4 times and the other is black (D), half-woman (E) and has vitilogo (I)... like c'mon guys, what are we even doing here?
On the characters side, you have Kratos who's now in his feelings, Mimir (who I actually like), Freya who plays the modern role of patronising the male protagonist (and would be a Greek miniboss at best, on the level of Medusa), Thor's sons (who feel like mob enemies with boss healthbars), black Angrboda in Norse myth (and her black grandma), Baldur (mommy issues), Thor (daddy issues), Odin (who I expected to be akin to the mighty Marvel Comics Odin but instead is a 'toxic' patriarch and trickster because someone had to act like Loki without the traditional Loki), and Atreus who despite being raised by a warrior mother and father still somehow comes off as a spoilt, urban brat and is a bit too comfortable mouthing off to his father, like damn Kratos discipline your boy - If this were OG Kratos Atreus would be a half-fledged Sparta warrior before the end of the game.
Last month, I finally finished the Greek Saga by playing Ascension and like a stranded desert wanderer stumbling upon an oasis I finally remembered what God of War was when I cusped my hands to take a sip...
This fucking game starts with Kratos in chains being beaten by one of the Furies. He escapes thanks to her careless method of torturing and chases her down while, at various points, the camera zooms out to show that this huge temple you're running around in was built around and INSIDE the Titan Hecatonchires as punishment for breaking his oath with Zeus. Besides the cinematics of the first fight with Baldur, the first hour of this game (considered the somewhat black-sheep of the Greek games) was already more exciting and awe-inducing than the entirety of GoW 2018.
The story of Ascension takes place before GoW 1 and shows a more compassionate warrior. The way Kratos calls out the name of the Oracle of Delphi (who's also a Spartan) when he sees her crushed by rocks and holds her hand as she passes away, or the way he came to see Orkos almost as a brother and making the hard choice to kill him, even at Orkos' request, makes Kratos' feelings and compassion feel more powerful, as it comes from a place of power. Whereas with Norse Kratos his compassion seemed to come from a place of guilt because he had to be in his feelings all the time now.
A constant of critique of the older games was that Kratos was pretty much a mindless brute and the games rarely, if ever, explored the emotional depths of Kratos. Notwithstanding the painful story of Kratos' Faustian bargain with Ares symbolized by the scars on his arms, his iconic mark being a tattoo tribute to his brother Deimos kidnapped by the Gods, the deaths of his wife and daughter at his own hands eternalized by their ashes being bonded to his skin making him the Ghost of Sparta (and permanently ashy), being a deceived errand-boy for the Gods in hopes that they could rid him of his nightmares, disallowed to end his own life and nightmares by Athena, literally backstabbed by Zeus, having his people wiped out and finding out about it from the last Sparta dying in his arms (whom he had mistakened for an enemy thus gravely injuring him). By the time GoW 3 rolled around Kratos was not merely some 'mindless brute' but a broken, betrayed, war-torned, nightmare-ridden ghost who could only harbor one thought and one thought alone: End It All.
One of the directors of the new games said they did away with the nudity, violence and other sharp aspects because God of War: Ascension didn't sell well (and not because it was a prequel that felt a bit lackluster compared to huge finale of GoW 3). With Ragnarok, as well as other pieces of media in the last decade, the actual reason for getting rid of the original GoW identity is now quite obvious.
The director of GoW 2018 also states that Kratos is stronger than he was in the Greek saga but it honestly doesn't look or feel that way (it really does feel like if you put both Kratos before each other and whispered to young Kratos "This guy is the only person standing between you and Zeus" young Kratos would rip him to shreds lol. Greek Kratos wouldn't 'play around' with Baldur like Norse Kratos) --- and part of this problem is Scale. In GoW 3, you could see Kratos as a tiny ant between the fingers of the gigantic Titan Cronos and get the scale of what was going on. In GoW 2018 there's no such scale. Some people often mention Kratos flipping the temple/gateway to the other realms, suggesting that he also carried those realms. But unlike the Cronos example, the player has neither the grasp of how big all those realms are nor sees them flipped/carried directly. The thing is, if you need to consult with powerscalers or pull out DeathBattle numbers and calculations to explain a thing then you're probably not following the writing rule of "Show, Don't tell." Even in Asura's Wrath when Chakravatin flings whole stars at you, you can at least grasp the scale (and insanity) of all that.
Now in hindsight and looking at the wokeness of GoW Ragnarok, i realized GoW 2018 was the politically-correct and sanitized foundation for Ragnarok and the series going forward. There was a time I would salivate just thinking about kratos f*cking shit up in various myths but now, between this new woke bedrock for the franchise and ramblings of Atreus being the MC of the next game, I just don't care anymore.
EDIT: I just watched the ending of the final fight on Youtube and remembered when Baldur asks "Why do even care?" and Kratos replies "...We must be better" before snapping his neck. Funny how these two phrases are now known to be part of the woke phrase arsenal.
I will never play the new games because the series was over with GOW3. It was done and I was satisfied.
It's pretty obvious at this point that anytime a story tries to expand beyond the conclusion, it turns to shit.
I think more the change of gameplay destroyed the game. Beginning with gow ascension.
The psp games stayed true to the original game and they were good addition to the series.
The new God of War teaches all the wrong lessons.
Kratos wants to atone for what he did. He is not searching for a way to return back to Greece and fix the mess he had created. Redemption is not "I forgive myself"; it is working toward fixing the mess you had created. For fuck's sake, Kratos destroyed heaven in Greece. His original wife and daughter are being tormented! Guess we better forget about it, because Kratos forgave himself and moved on.
Don't do redemption and growing-up stories if you refuse to tackle the subject of actually bettering yourself. New Kratos often comes off as a worse hypocrite than his younger self.
Nothing came out from killing gods. There is no character development for Atreus and him regretting killing the wounded god. There are not even significant side effects.
The game tries to paint Thor as this infantile baby boy and wants us to forget he brutalized his own son. It also wants to pretend that Thor is on par with Kratos, when we are specifically told that one of his sons lifted a boulder Thor himself could not move. And we dealt with that son rather easily.
If Thor is that unhappy, if his wife can see it... Why not leave? The devs established that other pantheons do exist with that black-skinned goddess. Just leave and serve another. What even is this infantilism?
Remember how awesome the Olympus looked? Why do the Norse Gods live in mud huts and vomit? Was it so hard for the devs to create majestic wooden homes?
Constant talking about the same things over and over. Normal people don't blabber so often.
No normal battle with Odin. Seriously, Zeus clawed to life; you felt like he was that ultimate god because he refused to go down. Odin just tries whipping the team with his electric whip and folds. He does not come off as someone capable of ruling the Norse Gods.
Why does Odin act like a caricature of a toxic, sexist manager instead of a natural character? Even his speech (my Ex) doesn't belong in the setting.
It's a rampaging issue with western entertainment nowadays. You have an entire creative class unable to write characters who exist in a non-american modern day setting. So instead of writing how Odin would behave, the writers wrote how they themselves would behave IF they were Odin. Supposed menacing or imposing male characters act like female and soyboys now BECAUSE they are written by females and soyboys.
This is extremely feminine behavior. If anyone want to understand why then they should look up the Lego study.
This is what I came here to write. Kratos has been reduced to a 'mature' and 'progressive' emotional charcter constantly in his feelings, Tyr the Norse God of War is now all about "being better" because strength outside of feminine feelings is 'toxic', Odin is now this conniving, manipulative (white and straight) man who 'emotionally abuses' his ex-wife and son, Thor seems to be a drunk buffoon manipulated by the toxic patriarch Odin.
Even the literal demon who is supposed to kickstart Ragnarok was like "I don't... want to"---talking like a sad 12 year old when asked to do his prophesized job. Why are these characters acting depressed like they're in need of (modern) therapy? Why has the flavors of every male character that ought to be powerful and imposing been distilled in some bland, tasteless syrup?
Because being soft and sappy (in touch with your feminine side) is the intended caricature for the modern man. (Modern) media is spearheaded by the feminine and the effeminate.
Also they're clearly incapable of writing a mythology accurate Odin
they spent all the budget creating a lot of uncecessary woke side quests like Odin is a wife beater and Odin is a capitalist colonialist. Then they ran our of money for a proper last boss fight and last epic mission.
"Remember how awesome the Olympus looked? Why do the Norse Gods live in mud huts and vomit? Was it so hard for the devs to create majestic wooden homes?"
*Walks into GoW Asgard*
*Looks around*
"Damn... Norse Gods live like this?..."
Thors impotence is even worse when you consider that he was the member of that pantheon that cared the most about humanity, sans maybe Freyr. Dude was literally norse godbro and he gets this shit.
Yeah lol, why is Kratos hiding it another country treated like some noble thing? He should be rebuilding Greece
“I forgive myself” what? At no point did that come up, its acceptance of what he did, not forgiveness lmao
This should be nailed to the door of the Cathedral.
Games like Ragnarok shouldn't be hated because they are bad games (it's shit but it's not THAT bad). Instead Ragnarok should be hated because it took away the ACTUAL GOW Ragnarok that we could have gotten, and should have gotten. After finishing GOW 2018 I imagined the most epic GOW game we could ever play, set in Norse Mythology featuring the Twillight of the Gods. 2018 was just the set up for all of that. But now that this turd technically exists, we can never get that game anymore.
The opportunity cost lost from this last decade is immense. Politics has killed so many IPs and desecrated even more. There was that drama on X last week about Nier Automata's translation and how it changed 2Bs character. We may never get a game like Automata again but most people now have already experienced it as an inferior version. How many are willing to play a 2nd time in Japanese to get the actual experience?
Countless games you could have loved. Countless characters that could have been your favorites. THAT is what they have taken from you.
Marvel's Spider-Man 2 is the one that really set me off. The sequel to arguably the greatest Spider-Man game we've had since Ultimate Spider-Man. A true love letter to the fans, made by the fans.
And then Sweet Baby Inc. happened.
MJ (who was already the worst thing about the first game) was the lead writer's self insert, with a boss fight given just so she can vent about some ex boyfriend and project that rage and frustration in the game.
Welcome to Spider-Man, here's a mission where you play as a deaf girl, and here's another mission where you set up a date between two gays.
Beta male Peter who is incompetent beyond belief, meanwhile Miles is like a messiah because we all know why.
Yeah, gameplay is fun, traversal is fun, but this game could have been so much more, so much better, a true successor to the first game.
And now, I'm so worried and skeptical of Wolverine. A game I was hyped for, one of my favorite Marvel characters. I am so afraid of what a burning pile of shit Wolverine might end up as.
I call Miles Spider-Minority lol. As for Wolverine, it's already been revealed that SBI was involved. I assume Insomniac will do what they do best for the gameplay, but for the story, theme and characters it's safe to expect the 'modern' treatment.
Well I guess so long as I can maul down enemies in the most grotesque way possible I can find some enjoyment out of it.
Spider-Minority lmao! Good one.
The worst part is, it's been happening for decades. Did you know the comics code was created because a guy wrote an essay saying Superman and Wonder Woman were fascist? These parasites have been polluting American media forever.
I once tried to do a playthrough of N:A in English with a friend and they turned to me after about 20 minutes and said "why is 2B such a bitch in this version?" and we switched it back to Japanese immediately.
I genuinely believe that any japanese game should be played with the original language in and subtitles. There is simply no comparison with the dubs.
The problem is, a lot of games just use dubtitles when selecting subtitles.
At the very least you'll be able to hear the intended emotion.
Sorry to interject: do you happen to know of any reaction from Japanese players, to the changes done in Octopath Traveler 1, regarding the ending of Primrose's story?
It's something that came to mind during the weekend, because it seems to have been entirely overshadowed by the ye olde english localization of H'aanit's dialogue. And it's the only example I can think of where I find the change better than the original, yet it doesn't sit well with me not knowing what the original audience thought of it, let alone anyone in Team Asano involved in the development of the game.
Don't know of anyone who played OT1 in English, come to think of it.
Ragnarok was very deliberately avoiding all the cool stuff about Norse mythology
Nier Automata is one of my favourites ever, do you mind sharing with me whats about the translation? I played only in english.
The dub made 2B more cold than she's supposed to be
thanks, I wil look into it. any reason why they decided to do it? The reason I got why she was cold is lore related, as she knew what would happen eventually and didnt want to get emotionally attacjhed
The reason is that localizers don't like the way 2B is portrayed in the original. Since the game is made by Japanese devs for Japanese people, 2B is soft, gentle, feminine etc.. Attributes the Japanese finds attractive. The (american) localizers made her cold, mean and sarcastic because that's the more prevalent attitude in America and they think that is how women are SUPPOSED to act.
For example: there was a scene where a robot child asks 2B and 9S how babies are made. 9S begs 2B for help.
This only one among many changes. Generally speaking localizers nowadays thinks they know better than the creator of the original product. They think it's their mission to FIX what's wrong with other cultures because of-ism. Obviously that doesn't sit well with a lot of people, me included.
my goodness that is a huge change in tone! as some people say, you cant hate localizers enough
Don't let Mauler see you posting like this.
Obsessed with an opinion of mauler when the game is overwhelmingly loved by fans lol
Saw Cory Balrog get an award, he broke down crying on camera for a good 20 seconds, absolute beta energy
Probably crying because he took part in massacring Kratos.
I could fucking kiss you
“It’s ok for men to cry and have feelings.”
Or something like that he said in the documentary of God of War (2018).
Yes, true. But most fathers will do it behind closed doors, not in Public, as they need to be the leadership strength for their family so the world doesn't treat them like a doormat
Omg yes.
I fucking LOVED gow3 and found it so raw, visceral, and savage.
Gow4 was (still is) an absolutely beautiful game visually but I found the playstyle and story so bland.
"Sanitized" absolutely is the word for it.
I didn't get the fuss about it.
I understand why now.
Gameplay and story absolutely just completely changed from previous GOW themes. I'd rate the gameplay and story maybe 5/10.
I HATED the third game. It was everything about the 1st game that I hated. Instead of a big, boring temple it was a big, boring box.
You're crazy. The third game is the best in the series. I wish we could've gotten a thousand games with the same energy and vibe that GOW3 has.
Nah, I hated it. I liked the 2nd game though.
The effect of disneyifying media.
Nothing too mind challenging to please everyone. Ignore theme accuracy, just pick the tip of the iceberg of the theme and put the rest of the effort into the correct representation of every single individual on the planet
They turned Kratos into a raging feminist
An effeminate wuss
The masculine hero into older man with trauma pipeline needs to be studied.
It's a trick they love to play when perverting older IPs that has men like Kratos. Converting them into older, broken, trauma ridden, regretful, conscientious characters. The culture doesn't let them write Kratos as Kratos so they do the best they can.
It wouldn't be so bad except there's no backfill.
It's just another of Woke moral play to teach the cost and error of "toxic masculinity."
Actually the funny thing is kratos was broken, trauma ridden and regretful in the first game in few times you saw him have emotions other than rage it was pure regret, when he kill Ares and got his revenge he felt nothing he just wanted his memories gone, he wanted to forget about his past actions and when they said he was forgiven but they wouldn't wipe his memories he tried to kill himself, he didn't choose to become the new God of war he chose to kill himself after he got his vengeance, kratos was a broken tragic character, he didn't really want glory or to become immortal Olympian God he wanted to just forget his past, the God of war trilogy is basically his self destruction path he couldn't get peace so he destroyed everything, he kinda reminds me of James from silent hill 2. Giving his actions in the original trilogy he doesn't fit becoming a conscious character he effectively destroyed the world leaving only hope left at the end, he's not just a reject filled outlaw on a redemption ark he was a self destructive monster who basically broke the universe. His broken, trauma and regret just turned into apocalyptic rage that burned down all of Greek mythology though out the series. Kratos was broken, full of trauma and regret but not in a conscious way in fact in the exact opposite the trauma and regret just turned into apocalyptic rage and brutality
There was something weird in Ragnarök i noticed, but at that time it was in the E33 catalogue of games you weren't allowed to criticize.
In 2018 one of Thor's sons makes sexual remarks about Atreus's mother which leads him to go crazy.
In Ragnarök when Atreus goes to Asgard I noticed there were multiple lines by different characters about how weird and gross the son was, Thrud said it, even his mother said it and if I'm not mistaken some other npcs said it.
Not just one line but multiple, it felt so artificial, like they were doing the whole "Hey we did this misogynistic thing in the first game but this is to show we DON'T agree!"
I never heard anyone criticize that though so i thought i was nitpicking.
There is a noticeable difference in how Asgard is described in 2018 compared to what we see in Ragnarok. Putting aside the fact that kingdom of the gods is a shitty wood village, everyone there is sooo normal and muted. Extremely mundane.
always were fan of OG trilogy
The new God of War games are not God of War games. They are nothing like the original series, apart from having the same main character, voiced by a different person, and written to be nothing like he was in the original games.
I'm not reading all that. But yeah. They're cringe as fuck.
/v/ is full of WE MUST BE BETTER MEN memes these days too. It's so funny how the series went from just being a violent guy wanting revenge to trying to fight "toxic masculinity" by telling men to be better lol.
It took me a minute and a half to read bro. It's not War and Peace.
I dont need to read redditslop when the title is the only important bit.
You dont read redditslop, so you produce commentslop, nice.
Can't read a couple paragraphs?
[deleted]
tldr: the new GOW games are bad becuase they took away core aspects of the IP and added wokeness, and turned kratos into a sad old man
It’s a decent read
Good read, that was a good perspective that I can see now.
I loved the og god of war games. Couldn't even finish 2018 played a few hours of it stopped and I literally haven't touched it since.
The new GoW game shave nothiing to do with the old ones. I am generally not a fan of series being brought back and the MC being basically a completely.different person. People say "Wow its called character development" but I hate how literally everything needs to be like that. Why couldn't we keep angry Kratos? Why does Kratos struggle against 3 basic enemies but in the OG games he kills 50 of them in 2 mins? But hey, the 1st game was at so who cares right?
The 2nd one is where they really went out of their way to make it woke and it turned into a marvel movie-ish game with no deep story and focus on Atreus. There is a 2 hour long section where you're forced to play as Atreus with a dark skinned god in norse mythology which makes zero sense. That almost made me uninstall.
I suppose you'd have to ask yourself, how does it not make narrative sense for a warrior to not get rusty after presumably not fighting for a long time (since they're trying to give some more depth to the character beyond what the MC of the Doom games has), and to lose that rage (presumably after killing the whole pantheon that made him who he was)?
I could get disliking the story and wanting something different, but I couldn't imagine really how the same Kratos from the original trilogy could stay the same after such a gap in time.
what an odd thing to say... someone having an opinion was "quite weird" , but really i know that feeling... from the other side. So many people just go with the flow its fucken gross. You want to talk about failures of society and sliding scales ... there's the truth of it.
homogenization of every opinion out there is a real problem that has only gotten worse.
I was just looking up the Kayne n lynch controversy where a game reviewer lost his job for giving a 6/10 to a game that had spent a lot of marketing money with the publication, Gamespot.
That's why so many shit games get good scores.... pay to play isn't just for mobile games and hasn't been for a long time.
No scruples left anywhere for quite some time now.
*******
I also remember Sony taking a lot of flack once upon a time for a God of war launch party that involved Togas and a dead goat...seemed lit
https://kotaku.com/that-time-sony-threw-a-god-of-war-party-with-a-dead-goa-1734350134
It often irritates me when I think about how I would previously believe or have stances about things or topics (social/political, for example) with just a cursory understanding of them. What I wrote sounds like an odd thing to say because I articulated it sincerely. Perhaps back then it's was the foolishness of youth, the fear of seeming odd, or a brew of both, but there many people who currently 'think' like this and are not aware of it - going with the 'flow' is the safe and secure option... at the cost of individuality, of course.
So you know, it wasn't meant as a slight... it just resonated
Likely its a folly (or blessing) of youth to have that level of trust or simplicity in a world view. We all have it in varying degrees depending on the subject matter.
My point in the matter is that most things are offered to us in a quasi truth sort of space these days. Game reviews are subjective sure, but once money is involved that goes out the window. Once you start firing people for doing their jobs the people not fired are very likely to not to do their jobs as well and thus the enshitification begins.
Mediocrity ensues.
That blends down to the point that no one is gonna dare suggest Kratos stuffing a demons head up its own ass in glorious upscaled 8k detail because even suggesting it could loose you your 401k and parking spot.
Meanwhile no one can get fired if they say less violence, less sexism, and while you at it more sensitivity and add a flower picking mini game. And then you've lost most of the flavor that found you success in the first place. But why the fuck not, no ones giving this game less than 9/10 if they want to stay employed.
For what its worth i never played God of War except to kill Cerebos but you see that same softening in many series be they Game, TV or Movies
Yeah I know it wasn't a slight, I just wanted to expound on that a bit.
"My point in the matter is that most things are offered to us in a quasi truth sort of space these days."---You've said it all. Trustworthy and objective sources of information has gotten quite rare today. Conformity is highly praised and its antonyms are actively attacked and stifled. I know they are creatives in these industries who are dying for the creative legroom of past decades, but have neither the status, resources or connections to pull through... so they have no choice but to conform... what a time this is..
Coincidentally, I randomly remembered Kane & Lynch like 3 days ago and went to its Wiki to see the reviews because I never played those games and also saw that Gamespot controversy. Apparently the guy's NDA had expired so he could now speak about it. This stuff has been going on for a long while now because I recall something with a PS1/2 game where the CEO (I believe the founder of EA) admonished a game magazine/outlet for a bad review and threatened to stop sponsoring them.
"Sony took a lot of flack"
I always ask myself, 'Took a lot of flack from who?' Because the answer to that is your true enemy.
The International Fund for Animal Welfare was mentioned in the article.
This link may give your computer aids tho.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-451414/Slaughter-Horror-Sonys-depraved-promotion-stunt-decapitated-goat.html
The 2018 God of War did not have any overt political messaging injected into it. The second one was filled with it.
That's straight out of the modern Sony playbook. It's so obvious now. GOW 2018/Ragnarok. The Last of Us 1/ The Last of Us 2. Spiderman/Spiderman 2. Ghost of Tsushima/Ghost of Yotei. They hook you in to the franchise with part 1, and drop the modern politics woke hammer on part 2. It needs to be called out.
You didn't need to write all that, all you need is this one line:
"What your mother did before we met was her business."
Well, it is her business, just like how what Kratos did was his business
Nah
Yah
I played GOW 2018 and realized "Oh. This is just another Sony movie dressed up in video game skin". It's a complete betrayal of Greek Kratos and those wonderful games. I didn't even play Ragnarok, I have no desire to. Instead, I bought the PS4 remaster of GOW3 and played that again. Very good write up OP, very well thought out. It hurts seeing critics cheer for the new games, for the destruction of this once great franchise.
The new stories are awful, but my biggest gripe is the gameplay. Fuck you souls fans, I hate how popular those shitstain games have gotten to make so many devs continue to make roll-simuator. And fuck that ugly zoomed in over the shoulder camera.
GoW was an arcadey action platformer. Bring that back or the series truly stays over with 3.
Yeah I enjoyed 2018 for the gameplay but it was not as epic as the older games. Ragnarok was an even bigger dud, nothing happens the entire game and then it just ends. Great gameplay but terrible stories.
Wish I could play Ascension. I got to experience 1, 2, 3 (Remastered), Chains, and Ghost. Just need a PS3...
I still remember when Atreus told his dad to "be better". It went full Marvel at this part https://youtu.be/CU3UEXUSfUM?si=MhW4rkFg-zRxYcNE&t=239
The old GoW trilogy was peak honestly
They drag on too much
gow died with ascension
I played the z2018 game. It was repetitive and the mobs were all the same. It wasn’t terrible. But it sure as hell wasn’t great. Too many cut scenes to be honest
Copy-Paste from my old comment.
Ragnarok was a woke game. It included Black Angrboda just for the shake of having a black character even though historically or mythologically (anyway you want to call it) it doesn't even make any sense and also a gay couple (the story of Jari and Somr) for people who missed it again just for the shake of including it, they also added the 6-color rainbow on the snow on that scene. There were not real Giants with those names or story.
They also consulted "Sweet Baby Inc." which is a company with writers who make games more diverse (meaning more woke).
Irrelevant to Ragnarok but let's remember that they removed one of God of War 3 trophies named "I didn't do it...but I wish I did" when killing Poseidon's wife and God of War Ascension trophy named "Bros Before Hoes" when killing one of the Furies because it "projected" toxic masculinity.
Also Santa Monica Studios had the LGBT 6-color rainbow on their social media to celebrate pride month (on 2023, but probably other years too). And sent an LGBT person to get their accessibility reward on Game Awards 2022.
There are also other things on Ragnarok that prove that the game is woke like Freya mentioning that she is stronger than Kratos (she says something like that) and Kratos doesn't disagree.
Also let's not forget Cory Barlog (GoW 2018 Game's Director) saying that Brok is gay and I guess other things that can't think of now.
In trying to make Kratos into some sort of tempered father figure who struggles to relate to his son and control his anger they just destroyed the core of his character, and what made him and the gameplay around him compelling. Its like if you have Deadpool and he gets a kid and all of a sudden hes like “No, no more funny quips, I have to be mature for my son.”
I dont need my video games to try and show me some sort of low tier psychological exploration of the father/son dynamic. If I wanted that, Id read a great author. I need my games to be fun, and when it comes to fun, mechanical depth and spectacle, the new games are a massive step back for the series.
Love Caddicaraus
Love your analysis. Well done. Not overdone with simply my side vs your side but actually checking out what the games really were about.
We must be better men
"Mr. Senator, you have to do better."
This subreddit served a purpose once upon a time. Now it's just a hate sub.
Bards in the future will sing hymns and writers will write books about "The pussification of Kratos"
I thought the first was okay. Definitely wayyyyyyy toned down from the older games. Freya felt like a feminist insert by the end. I was fine with Kratos having a new life after everything he had been through.
Didn't bother playing the second. As soon as I seen race swaps I was out.
Trying to fist in modern day values in setting that are centuries or millennia old will always end up feeling rather odd.
The games are very overrated. And the combat system is not good—you don’t feel like the god of war when draugr trash mobs take six swings to the face with your supposedly legendary magic axe before they die.
I agree with every word. But I'll add that the new games, especially Ragnarok are obsessed with making Kratos submissive to women. His wife Faye talks to him like he's a simpleton, just a sneak preview of what a fucking cunt she must've been. And he's all but begging Freya to stop being mad at him.
definitely had those elements, and I completely abhored the atrues missions with Angraboda but the for me I was so excited to see kratos again and I still had fun but I can see pain some ppl feel
I am sympathetic but I think you're falling into the trap of presuming that "anything which deviates from a particular mode of action-hero-badassery must be woke."
There are many reasons, other than woke, that people would want to make something that either doesn't feature such characters, or takes a deconstructive (I mean this in the TVTropes sense, not the postmodern/SJW sense) approach to such characters. I mean, even I remember in the pre-gamergate days when every blockbuster game on the Xbox 360 was trying to reach "the CoD crowd" and plenty of non-woke people were rolling their eyes at "ohh look, yet another game starring a bald buff USMC-styled combat operative, space-variant optional." Games like Broforce were made to parody it.
I am not a God of War fan, but there's a non-political reason that MIGHT have contributed to this tonal shift you talk about (at least in the first game) - a lot of people who grew up playing the original games were literally reaching the age at which they were becoming fathers. So presumably, turning God of War into a "Sad Dad" game was partially an attempt to make something relatable to the audience.
This was a bit of an error though, because it greatly underestimated the appeal of escapism and overestimated the appeal of "this relates to my everyday life." I think a lot of real life dads who grew up playing video games would've preferred the fantastical escape FROM the mundane aspects of being a dad.
I don't deny woke and DEI seeped into the franchise, though. I just question whether or not turning GoW into a "Sad Dad" game was motivated by those things.
I consider the absolute narcissistic myopia needed to make Kratos a male-menopause sad-sack to be a result of the same root cause of woke, though. It's a deliberate killing off of imagination, caused by the exact same kind of cultural poison. Functionally, it is woke, even if it isn't explicitly socially progressive.
That's an interesting argument and it seems at least somewhat plausible to me. The whole "you need to SEE YOURSELF (as in EXACTLY LIKE YOURSELF) on screen to relate to the material" is certainly indicative of narcissistic sentiments... or at the least a very stunted mind incapable of relating to things by analogy/abstraction. Or maybe turning-Kratos-into-a-Sad-Dad was some sort of self-indulgent act by a game developer who recently became a father himself and just wanted to make the game all about his own insecurities/anxieties/etc rather than create what the fanbase actually wanted.
There's also a notedly disproportionate prevalence of Cluster B personality disorders among wokies.
Perhaps this underlying "root cause of woke" is really some sort of massive epidemic of Cluster B, and woke is just an ideological byproduct of that. Like, we're living in a Cultural Pathocracy.
This is called the "mutational load" theory, and it's a semi-common explanation on the far right for why the left seems to grow in number. The general idea is that leftism or woke or whatever is really just what happens when sociopaths, narcissists and other mentally ill people engage in politics ("shut up and let me hurt you") and that the growth of the left is just a result of our higher level of civilization letting people with serious mental illness live comfortably and reproduce instead of being naturally selected out of the gene pool.
Eventually, the theory goes, the load gets too high, human capital degrades too much, and civilization collapses. It's not the most widely accepted theory, but some people believe it.
I get your angle but that's not the case. We have 6 games worth of evidence showing that this Norse Kratos is quite different and watered-down. This, for the past decade, has been a recurring pattern in various media. I'll paste a comment I just made:
Kratos has been reduced to a 'mature' and 'progressive' emotional charcter constantly in his feelings, Tyr the Norse God of War is now all about "being better" because strength outside of feminine feelings is 'toxic', Odin is now this conniving, manipulative (white and straight) man who 'emotionally abuses' his ex-wife and son, Thor seems to be a drunk buffoon manipulated by the toxic patriarch Odin.
Even the literal demon who is supposed to kickstart Ragnarok was like "I don't... want to"---talking like a sad 12 year old when asked to do his prophesized job. Why are these characters acting depressed like they're in need of (modern) therapy? Why has the flavors of every male character that ought to be powerful and imposing been distilled in some bland, tasteless syrup?
Six games? How many "Norse Kratos" games are there? I thought there were only two.
As someone whos played GOW1, 2, and 3 multiple times. I very much enjoyed GoW2018
You talk about how Kratos was basically the greatest berserker in the trilogy, then complain that hes not a berserker any longer.
But GoW3's final conclusion was him learning to move past his vengeance, where he finally ends the story by sacrificing himself, his powers, his godhood, and his life. He Was Done.
He had beaten everyone and yet lost EVERYTHING, and learnt that violence is not always the best answer. Where can the story go from there? There is nothing left for him to seek vengeance on. Everything he valued was lost, destroyed, or corrupted.
For the story to continue, Kratos needs to find or create something of value, and that's exactly what happens. Between the ending of GoW3 and start of GoW, we find that Kratos has become a father again, learnt to temper his rage, raised a son, found and lost a beloved wife.
The new story is now no longer about Kratos seeking regenge, we don't need a 4th installment of that. Its a story about him and his strained relationship with his son, made complicated by the fact that his son doesn't know anything about his heritage as a "half" god, and the untold story of his mother's legacy, and how godhood is not something that can be ignored easily (if at all)
What i don't get is how you can keep calling it woke.
Explain to me what made the series woke? Less sex? There was fuck all in the originals, so that makes no sense. Less violence? 3 Gods die and you have some of the most violent fights, if not the most violent fights on the playstation platform.
Reading all that you read, all i see is someone upset that its not epic world-level destruction of the Norse mythology by a berserker who thinks everything is solved by violence.
Please tell me exactly how its woke?
It's woke because it is gaslighting Kratos in the original game as "immature", made the gods death scene less brutal compared to the original games, made Kratos stuck with a single mother when he previously could bang any women he wanted, made Kratos denounce violence when he is the literal embodiment of violence and just made Kratos an overall beta who doesn't care about the sex history of the women he's with and allows his own son to disrespect him.
God of war is dead and the woke kill it....
Kratos in the 3 games can be summed up as him slashing and destroying everything until he found something he couldn't beat, then finding a new power that would allow him to destroy it.
You never had to think about Kratos's morality because it was him being a dick and choosing to be violent until he got his way, and his way was always to destroy to the best of his power.
Take a look at how he treated the Captain throughout the trilogy.
And when he couldn't destroy his opponent, he had a hissy fit that did not stop.
Putting aside whatever screwed up moral compass you have in the real world, you do understand that Kratos had a family once before he was the God of War. How is it so unreasonable that he has another family when he "retired" from being the god of war.
Also, Kratos was not stuck with a single mother. Faye was his wife, and Atreus is Kratos's child. I would say at no point in her life was Faye ever a "Single Mother" by anyone's definition.
You seem to think hes the God of Violence, which is incredibly shortsighted. War is about capturing territory and putting its people, land, and assets to use for yourself, and it is enabled by the ABILITY to destroy anyone or anything that opposes you. When you go to war, you don't need to kill every last inhabitant or burn every building to the ground; indeed, many conquerors would consider that detrimental to their war efforts.
The difference between the God of War and the God of Violence is like the difference between a General and a Soldier. Both are able and willing to kill anything in their way, but a general must see the bigger picture and use force when and where as needed.
Did you think the god of Death personally kills everyone? Did you think the god of Love seduces everyone?
You seem to be projecting your feelings that have nothing to do with Kratos. Literally, he has a wife and and child between the games, over 20 years unwritten between Kratos and Faye and all your response is to call her a whore and call Kratos a beta. You have serious issues that you should address before you ever start a family yourself, and until then, I truly hope you don't, because your type makes Kratos look like a good father.
Because Kratos campaign for violence is morally good and you don't have to think about it. Nothing wrong with raging when things go your way, I have broken many keyboards and controllers over the years and I am not ashamed of it. Violence is good for the soul and I have an extensive gun collection for shooting dummies when I have a bad day...
The hell is a moral compass?
One of the few flaws he has
Being serious now and the first paragraph, Kratos represents a male power fantasy and part of that are harems. Men don't choose marriages over harems in power fantasies, men actually want to impregnate as many women as possible. You can this in the real world where men in positions of power have sex with multiple even they're married. Men want sex and women want commitment ie marriage, these are the facts of life.
I didn't see a hymen so single mother she is. Do you proof of her virginity? If so well then Kratos didn't become a cuck at least but still is a beta who is okay with his wife sex history....
Wars are won through the use of violence, to denounce violence is to denounce war which is antithetical to the god of war. How hard is this for you people to understand? Kratos wasn't talking about the balance between diplomacy and aggression, he was straight up condemning violence as bad and ugly just so he can "be better".
Considering Kratos killed his way to become the god of war, yes ...
Any woman not telling her sex history is a ho and any man going along with is a beta unless he is A Pimp Named Slickback..
I am the morning gloom The flowers of hope shall not bloom They'll wilter and die and place on the tomb
With poetics out of the way, there will always be more of me. My kind don't just disappear because you hope we would. I am here to stay forevermore and you just gotta deal with it...
Man there's a LOT of self indictment here lol. You're basically speedrunning the "i have unhealthy views" any%
I wouldn't say he was morally good...ever. It was understandable, at least in the first game, to want to kill Ares to avenge his family. By the second you see that he's truly not that much better than Ares, and certainly proved worse throughout 2 and 3.
You wouldn't but I do, moral goodness is about serving the self not about being "better"....
That would just make him selfish, not moral. He's not living to some self-adhered code throughout the games.
A mission, sure, but no morals.
Being selfish is moral. There's nothing morally good about sacrificing the self for others....
Okay Bizarro. Whatever floats your boat I guess.
Let me put it in this way, if you have the choice of either using your money for porn or give it for food aide which one would you choose? How much money you actually spent doing as you said? How do you think others are spending their money?
Not the biggest deal the world IMO, especially considering how anyone that made the deal Kratos did with ares would regret it
Eye roll
He isn't the "embodiment of violence" though, he is the god of war, which they discuss in pretty interesting detail about how that means knowing when to fight, and Kratos pretty much ends GoW3 with an understanding that his endless bloodshed pretty much jjst ended with a dead pantheon as opposed to actually making anything better for him
Larger eye roll
Who gives an actual shit about anyone's sexual history?
Well we all know what happened with his first family, doesn't seem like much of a stretch that he's struggling not to make the same mistakes that led to the tragedy that made him the ghost of sparta. Parenting is hard bro
No, it was either the deal or he dies. Sane people would choose the deal over dying. The message that being angry and aggressive is immature while being sentimental and considerate is mature is very much a big deal. A better message would be to control one's anger into a tool to fulfill your desires.
Guys want harems, not being stuck with one woman who isn't even a virgin. God of war is supposed to be a power fantasy remember?
Kratos is one of the most if not the most violent character on PlayStation. Knowing temperance doesn't mean denounce and condemning the thing. Kratos's "temperance" was unnecessary antithetical to his character, a god war doesn't say nonviolence is better than violence...
No need to take personal offense...
Men who don't want "ex-boyfriend" drama, wants a woman actual loyal to him, and doesn't want to be literally cucked into raising another man's kids....
What are you even on about? Kratos was deceived into killing his wife and daughter and there was no indication he had troubles being a father. It is not hard to instill respect and discipline into your children without being a blind killer.....
And then the tragic part of the deal happened, which is what would cause people to regret said deal
Literally none of the things you are worried here about are featured in ragnarock, we even see his sife being very loyal to him, just as krstos has been loyal to her. Im also now wondering if you're just a kid who hasn't experienced much of the world yet
In hindsight, take the deal and then kill Ares before he tricks you. Keep wife and kid and be God of war
I didn't even said they did in Ragnarok, I was giving a general answer to your question of what kind of man would care about a woman's sex history. Take your "life experience" bs somewhere else. If you want your "partner" with other okay but don't gaslight actual men into accepting it....
You're not a man though; you're a child with the emotional strength of wet paper.
You don't know what gaslighting means, you don't know what a wholesome family is, and your misogyny is so fully blown that i'd be surprised you don't resent the developers for failing to put a Burka over all the women and insisting they stay inside the kitchen all game.
I'd had a BiL who was held your views as a universal truth. Here's how it played out. His daughters loved him but grew to hate being near him, his wife found freedom when he died, and the world is just a better place for those whom he loved because he's not in it.
Are you crying? I am just imagining your voice cracking from reading this with all of the self-projection bleeding through
Nah, I don't feel comfortable with handling my meals. I feel there's a high risk of "accidents" occuring so I prefer my women to stay in my "basement" just to keep everyone "safe". I would add the /s but we both know it's real, it's damn real....
That's why you get sons instead, they'll be just like me
Not sure how is this supposed to surprise me. I don't need a wife to get the sons I want and I don't want to deal with making a woman happy for the rest of my life, sounds like a living nightmare..
Bet he is having fun with the young and youthful virgins in heaven. Are you happy for him?
Okay I'm just gonna assume you are a kid then. Piece of advice kid, everyone has their baggage and life gets a lot easier/more pleasant when you care less about what exactly their baggage is and care more about what the two of you can do together to alleviate it
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Didn’t play the original trilogy as only had an Xbox back then, but I very much enjoyed both the Norse games. The wokeness wasn’t that bad to spoil the combat and set pieces imo. Kratos is still strong and dependable, I can only remember that one fight with Freya where he gets beaten (but I’m putting that down to him not wanting to kill her).
Out of all the Sony first party franchises, it’s the least tainted one now imo.
I tried to play the new one with talking turned off and the wokeness still got through. I had to turn it off after about 3 unskippable cutscenes within 20 mins.
I will always defend GoW 2018, amazing game, great story, some flaws but in general an amazing game. I didnt have a son at that time but I cna only image how even more impactful it would be for me today that I have a 5y kid.
Ragnarok on the other side is pure wokeness in your head 100% of the time, it is norse mithology reflecting today's world and politics. The characters, writing, the bloat, and an ending extremely unfulfilling that plays more like a normal stage.
It is a game a regret playing because it left such a bad taste in my mouth that even made me disregard the first game also, but then I remember how good GoW 2018 was.
Hence why I even today refuse to play TLOU2, I do not want it to shame my memory of the first game which is one of the greatest of all time for me.
I wonder if people accepted 2018 God of War because it was a new game in so long, and people wanted to see more of Kratos absolutely wrecking another mythology a new one.
A lot was accepted as fans tolerated the idea of an older, and changed Kratos. It didn't carry as much into Ragnarok, but I think that's because the rose-colored glasses of seeing a new GoW game fell off.
Recently tried to play gow1 gow2 the orginals the quick time events at the beginning were just too annoying.
2018 hit differently to me. I liked it, Kratos is older now, has kid, I'm older, I had had my son. I got it.
I bought Ragnarok and hated it. Kratos got the Witcher [Henry Cavil] treatment.
I'm out
The games aren't woke. They're just not for you. That's ok. Not every game is for everyone.
I never liked GoW. I gave it 3 games. The first one I hated. The 2nd one I loved. So I gave the 3rd one a chance. It was more like the first one than second, so I ended up hating it, too. Since IMO the story was concluded, I just didn't give a shit beyond that. Kratos in Norse pantheon? Don't really care.
What is it with redditors and typing out essays about shit they supposedly dislike ?
I hate game, I don't play it. I sure as heck ain't spending time writing all that since most people won't read all that.
2018 GoW isn’t woke at all it’s god some issues like the combat system sucking for fighting multiple opponents and some dull moments but it’s not woke.
Ragnarok has some woke taint in it for sure but that game has a lot more problems due to being two games badly stitched together.