I don’t think it’s fair to judge the player Xavier worthy is when we’ve on seen his rookie season (which he played well in later in the year) and this year where he was hurt all season. The shoulder is tough but you take a guy who’s primary weapon is speed and give him an ankle injury it’s going to affect him a ton.
I judge him based off the limitations he has always had. I won’t bother listing them because I’ll just get downvoted until finally year 4 everyone finally realizes it themselves. He’s a good #3 WR, but that’s it. I’ll check back in when ppl finally acknowledge in a couple years it takes more than track speed to be a good vertical deep threat
I think he absolutely nails what a lot of us have been saying. The team has got to get more athletic at the wide receiver position. The offensive line is not the problem when they're healthy.
Also, damn we need some new ideas in the building in the worst way.
I think this is accurate as well. The important context is that while we have “fast” or “quick twitch” receivers; do we really expect to be able to throw back shoulder fades to the boundary or end zone? Kelce was that for years, but we haven’t had that for a few seasons. We don’t have a jump ball receiver or anyone who legitimately runs past defenders AND can reliably adjust & catch the ball.
The dearth of ideas in the building is evident now. Hopefully, Andy can self assess and consider bringing in someone from outside the tree like a McDaniel, etc.
Veach is slowly learning what every true NFL expert already knew… 40 times are of little importance with a good WR. If you made him watch film and never told him the 40 time for any WRs in the draft or in free agency he would do a far better job of bringing in WRs.
And for the love of God, if you want to worship a number then study and draft according to the gauntlet times, not the 40 times
The real problem this year is injuries. We have not really played more than a single snap the entire season with our intended starters at 100%.
If we excuse the offensive line because they were fine when healthy, then we probably have to excuse the WR room for being down the top options for the start of the year having Rice concussed and Worthy hobbled for most of the rest.
I don't think the takeaway should be that we need more investment in WR, because we have other positions in a dire strait. We don't have a RB signed for next year at all, for instance.
We saw games with all the receivers playing, not with them healthy. Worthy was hobbled pretty much constantly with ankle/shoulder/issues, and Rice was concussed.
I got destroyed for saying if we have the chance to get a blue chip WR (Tate) we should get him. Tice pretty much reaffirms my thoughts. Of course we need a RB but a WR is gonna give us more bang for our pick imo.
I'd love Tate or Tyson, I think we need some real A+ athletes at receiver to threaten the defenses. Right now everything is compact. It's like there's 9 defenders within 10 yards every play.
You say get a WR then only mention a RB as another option. Sounds like you're boiling it down to two choices.
That's probably why people disagreed with you, we've spent a lot of capital on WRs and can't develop one. People don't want to waste the best pick we're going to have in the next decade on another WR.
I get the argument. But the same can be said about the RB position. They failed on CEH and instead of addressing the problem and correcting it, Reid stayed stubborn and kept trying to play the bum even up until this year. I’m perplexed that ppl know we have a shit WR room and just don’t wanna pick a 1st rd WR because we took one at 32 ( which is technically 2nd rd value) a couple yrs ago. Andy hates RB’s and hasn’t had a 1000 rusher in 8 yrs
They failed on one guy at RB btw. I wouldn't call it a pattern. I think you're making a case for drafting a RB high instead of waiting on a 'bum'.
They've just spent so much at WR and can't figure it out. If we're assuming the coaching staff doesn't adjust, WR is further down my list than OL, DL, DB, TE and maybe ties with RB.
I didn't watch this video but when I do I hope the blame isn't squarely laid at WRs feet which would be the only reason I could see taking one at 12, which would still be an indictment on the coaching staff because they have picked these guys.
The idea is it's a waste to use it on a WR. For one, that is one spot you don't need good talent to win a SB. We are a great example, we have 2 rings with relative nobodies at WR.
Secondly there are going to be other players available at 12 in positions we need. DL is a mess, get an elite talent there.
It's a waste in terms of value for us. WR is not as important as DL for our team if we have the best QB in the league and a genius offensive mind. The 5 top guys this year are two 1sts, a 2nd, a 4th and 5th rounders.
The 5 guys leading in sacks were all top 100 picks and the next 3 were top 12 picks. I think there's more value in a high end DL prospect in our situation. I don't even think it needs to be DL, take the best player on the board not a QB. No matter what position it is they start from day one, except WR or QB.
We’ve won 3 rings with FA castaways/1st RD bust and 7th RD picks at the RB position as well. Same goes for the DL.. It hasn’t been Elite since Tamba/Houston/Poe.. Jones has been elite but he’s been surrounded by a mid DL cast
Jones has been elite when we've won. He's not elite anymore so yea that's my point. Someone needs to replace him from a talent standpoint and you're never going to have a better shot at drafting that guy unless things go terribly wrong again. You can't continue to have a bunch of mid guys surrounding a formerly elite player, because he's not that anymore.
We know you don't need to spend a ton of capital on WRs to win a SB. I spent a god awful amount of time collecting data to throw around the idea of trading Tyreek years ago. SB winners don't spend a lot of capital at WR as of 2020. I think you're seeing it in Buffalo, Dallas, Miami, Baltimore, Cincy. They pay and accumulate talented WRs and have won nothing. Who is the best WR from the top 3 teams in the AFC right now? 32 year old Stef Diggs or 40th pick Courtland Sutton.
We DO know you need to spend on defense. I'd even argue you need a very good running game, however you'd like to take that. So take BPA not QB or WR, it doesn't matter. I just default to dline because it's a mess and expensive in FA.
I honestly can’t really disagree with you other than the fact I do give Tate an exception because I think he’s special. But I did state in my post this draft needs to be defense heavy for KC.. DL/ secondary need LOTS of attention
Wild and he totally nailed it. For the last several seasons I've felt like the WRs were slower than their combine speeds. Once they put their pads on they all (Worthy, Rice, Brown) become significantly slower.
the only WR on the team that can get open in man is Thorton, and we basically stopped playing him for 2 months. Rice is only good with the ball in his hands, so every pass to him is short. Worthy hasn't developed at all, has terrible tracking skills, turns the wrong direction frequently, and can't catch with his hands. JuJu and Hollywood are just old and cooked, and as WR3/4 you shouldn't expect a ton from them.
I'll give Worthy a bit of leeway given the shoulder injury, but they use him super weird too.
Rice I feel proved this year that he can't be the guy they funnel the offense through. He can't run a lot of traditional routes, zero contested catch ability, bad hands. Stick him as a slot, and I wouldn't plan on re-signing him.
In baseball ppl say shit like “I’m not fast, but I’m a good base runner”. And it’s annoying because that’s something slow ppl say to try and claim speed isn’t 90% of base running as long as you understand base running which is simple.
I think when ppl hear about football“he’s not fast, but he plays fast” they think it’s the same thing. But it’s not. In football the fastest guys in the field often times aren’t the guys running the fastest 40. Being track fast helps, sure. But in the grand scheme of things there’s so many other factors involved that the guys who play fastest are often times not the track guys.
Jerry rice ran a 4.7 second 40. Antonio Brown was the fastest guy in the field most games, and ran like a 4.66 second 40. Being a track guy doesn’t mean you’re gonna be a football player. Veach is learning that the hard way
I'm sorry but when I see Nate Tice, I suddenly think of this:
"Fixing the Chiefs offense might prove to be a difficult ordeal."
"Actually it's gonna be super easy! Barely an inconvenience!"
"Oh really?"
"Yeah all Andy Reid has to do is get a true RB1 this offseason and practice more schemes than just running up the gut, which also helps our defense improve against the run without stacking the box and becoming vulnerable against play action!"
"Wow wow wow. Wow!"
"It also doesn't hurt for him to get a true X receiver."
"Okay that's going too far, I'm gonna need you to get ALL the way off of his back."
I preferred other options at WR than Worthy and got roasted for it at the time.
I don’t think it’s fair to judge the player Xavier worthy is when we’ve on seen his rookie season (which he played well in later in the year) and this year where he was hurt all season. The shoulder is tough but you take a guy who’s primary weapon is speed and give him an ankle injury it’s going to affect him a ton.
He will always be hurt. Clearly fragile.
I judge him based off the limitations he has always had. I won’t bother listing them because I’ll just get downvoted until finally year 4 everyone finally realizes it themselves. He’s a good #3 WR, but that’s it. I’ll check back in when ppl finally acknowledge in a couple years it takes more than track speed to be a good vertical deep threat
WR is like the last place they should revamp is why
I think he absolutely nails what a lot of us have been saying. The team has got to get more athletic at the wide receiver position. The offensive line is not the problem when they're healthy.
Also, damn we need some new ideas in the building in the worst way.
I think this is accurate as well. The important context is that while we have “fast” or “quick twitch” receivers; do we really expect to be able to throw back shoulder fades to the boundary or end zone? Kelce was that for years, but we haven’t had that for a few seasons. We don’t have a jump ball receiver or anyone who legitimately runs past defenders AND can reliably adjust & catch the ball.
The dearth of ideas in the building is evident now. Hopefully, Andy can self assess and consider bringing in someone from outside the tree like a McDaniel, etc.
Fingers crossed!
Veach is slowly learning what every true NFL expert already knew… 40 times are of little importance with a good WR. If you made him watch film and never told him the 40 time for any WRs in the draft or in free agency he would do a far better job of bringing in WRs.
And for the love of God, if you want to worship a number then study and draft according to the gauntlet times, not the 40 times
The real problem this year is injuries. We have not really played more than a single snap the entire season with our intended starters at 100%.
If we excuse the offensive line because they were fine when healthy, then we probably have to excuse the WR room for being down the top options for the start of the year having Rice concussed and Worthy hobbled for most of the rest.
I don't think the takeaway should be that we need more investment in WR, because we have other positions in a dire strait. We don't have a RB signed for next year at all, for instance.
but we did see games with all of the receivers health and they couldn’t get open, beating man is a chronic problem on this team
We saw games with all the receivers playing, not with them healthy. Worthy was hobbled pretty much constantly with ankle/shoulder/issues, and Rice was concussed.
I got destroyed for saying if we have the chance to get a blue chip WR (Tate) we should get him. Tice pretty much reaffirms my thoughts. Of course we need a RB but a WR is gonna give us more bang for our pick imo.
I'd love Tate or Tyson, I think we need some real A+ athletes at receiver to threaten the defenses. Right now everything is compact. It's like there's 9 defenders within 10 yards every play.
Tyson is so injury prone he scares me
he's a freak though, his movement is crazy. Maybe a bit of kadarius "i'm too agile for my tendons" toney
The way he tempos his routes and gets separation is elite I cannot lie. Yep his suddenness is very Toney ish
It's not binary. There are other options
Never said it was binary.. Simply laying out a scenario in which we can upgrade the WR room
You say get a WR then only mention a RB as another option. Sounds like you're boiling it down to two choices.
That's probably why people disagreed with you, we've spent a lot of capital on WRs and can't develop one. People don't want to waste the best pick we're going to have in the next decade on another WR.
I think people wanting a WR also want to change the way we develop them, too. Aka fire Connor Embree.
Because WR/RB was the point of my post where I was referring “getting destroyed”
Just trying to explain why you were destroyed.
I get the argument. But the same can be said about the RB position. They failed on CEH and instead of addressing the problem and correcting it, Reid stayed stubborn and kept trying to play the bum even up until this year. I’m perplexed that ppl know we have a shit WR room and just don’t wanna pick a 1st rd WR because we took one at 32 ( which is technically 2nd rd value) a couple yrs ago. Andy hates RB’s and hasn’t had a 1000 rusher in 8 yrs
They failed on one guy at RB btw. I wouldn't call it a pattern. I think you're making a case for drafting a RB high instead of waiting on a 'bum'.
They've just spent so much at WR and can't figure it out. If we're assuming the coaching staff doesn't adjust, WR is further down my list than OL, DL, DB, TE and maybe ties with RB.
I didn't watch this video but when I do I hope the blame isn't squarely laid at WRs feet which would be the only reason I could see taking one at 12, which would still be an indictment on the coaching staff because they have picked these guys.
It’s so stupid that people call a pick a waste before seeing how good they actually are.
The idea is it's a waste to use it on a WR. For one, that is one spot you don't need good talent to win a SB. We are a great example, we have 2 rings with relative nobodies at WR.
Secondly there are going to be other players available at 12 in positions we need. DL is a mess, get an elite talent there.
I’m not saying we can’t win a Super Bowl without an elite wideout, but to say it’s a waste pick a WR is absurd DL can easily also be a waste.
It's a waste in terms of value for us. WR is not as important as DL for our team if we have the best QB in the league and a genius offensive mind. The 5 top guys this year are two 1sts, a 2nd, a 4th and 5th rounders.
The 5 guys leading in sacks were all top 100 picks and the next 3 were top 12 picks. I think there's more value in a high end DL prospect in our situation. I don't even think it needs to be DL, take the best player on the board not a QB. No matter what position it is they start from day one, except WR or QB.
If Bain Woods and Bailey aren’t there don’t be surprised if they do go WR. Worst thing we can do is reach for a mediocre DE instead of taking BPA.
We’ve won 3 rings with FA castaways/1st RD bust and 7th RD picks at the RB position as well. Same goes for the DL.. It hasn’t been Elite since Tamba/Houston/Poe.. Jones has been elite but he’s been surrounded by a mid DL cast
Jones has been elite when we've won. He's not elite anymore so yea that's my point. Someone needs to replace him from a talent standpoint and you're never going to have a better shot at drafting that guy unless things go terribly wrong again. You can't continue to have a bunch of mid guys surrounding a formerly elite player, because he's not that anymore.
We know you don't need to spend a ton of capital on WRs to win a SB. I spent a god awful amount of time collecting data to throw around the idea of trading Tyreek years ago. SB winners don't spend a lot of capital at WR as of 2020. I think you're seeing it in Buffalo, Dallas, Miami, Baltimore, Cincy. They pay and accumulate talented WRs and have won nothing. Who is the best WR from the top 3 teams in the AFC right now? 32 year old Stef Diggs or 40th pick Courtland Sutton.
We DO know you need to spend on defense. I'd even argue you need a very good running game, however you'd like to take that. So take BPA not QB or WR, it doesn't matter. I just default to dline because it's a mess and expensive in FA.
I honestly can’t really disagree with you other than the fact I do give Tate an exception because I think he’s special. But I did state in my post this draft needs to be defense heavy for KC.. DL/ secondary need LOTS of attention
Wild and he totally nailed it. For the last several seasons I've felt like the WRs were slower than their combine speeds. Once they put their pads on they all (Worthy, Rice, Brown) become significantly slower.
the only WR on the team that can get open in man is Thorton, and we basically stopped playing him for 2 months. Rice is only good with the ball in his hands, so every pass to him is short. Worthy hasn't developed at all, has terrible tracking skills, turns the wrong direction frequently, and can't catch with his hands. JuJu and Hollywood are just old and cooked, and as WR3/4 you shouldn't expect a ton from them.
I'll give Worthy a bit of leeway given the shoulder injury, but they use him super weird too.
Rice I feel proved this year that he can't be the guy they funnel the offense through. He can't run a lot of traditional routes, zero contested catch ability, bad hands. Stick him as a slot, and I wouldn't plan on re-signing him.
FR and Thornton is a tall guy. He reminds me of Randy Moss but never gets targeted or even snaps for that matter.
In baseball ppl say shit like “I’m not fast, but I’m a good base runner”. And it’s annoying because that’s something slow ppl say to try and claim speed isn’t 90% of base running as long as you understand base running which is simple.
I think when ppl hear about football“he’s not fast, but he plays fast” they think it’s the same thing. But it’s not. In football the fastest guys in the field often times aren’t the guys running the fastest 40. Being track fast helps, sure. But in the grand scheme of things there’s so many other factors involved that the guys who play fastest are often times not the track guys.
Jerry rice ran a 4.7 second 40. Antonio Brown was the fastest guy in the field most games, and ran like a 4.66 second 40. Being a track guy doesn’t mean you’re gonna be a football player. Veach is learning that the hard way
I'm sorry but when I see Nate Tice, I suddenly think of this:
"Fixing the Chiefs offense might prove to be a difficult ordeal."
"Actually it's gonna be super easy! Barely an inconvenience!"
"Oh really?"
"Yeah all Andy Reid has to do is get a true RB1 this offseason and practice more schemes than just running up the gut, which also helps our defense improve against the run without stacking the box and becoming vulnerable against play action!"
"Wow wow wow. Wow!"
"It also doesn't hurt for him to get a true X receiver."
"Okay that's going too far, I'm gonna need you to get ALL the way off of his back."