The real giveaway in all of this is seeing the STAR bond district doesn't include the Lake Quivira country club and associated million dollar houses that is literally smack dab in the middle. Y'all got punked.
They had Tye Masterson on 610 this afternoon and he said something interesting about how the sales tax repayment would only come from new development within the taxing district, and that any existing businesses would not be part of the STAR bond deal. I have not heard that anywhere else, but he is the head of the Kansas Senate, so maybe he's on to something.
There is no way that is mathematically possible. The state of Kansas only makes about 5.5 billion in sales taxes a year through all sources, and that has to be used for a wide range of things. 1.8 billion and interest over twenty years through only new development is a wild lie.
This is incorrect if I'm reading the law correctly. They don't track taxes earned by each business, just the total taxes earned by businesses in the district. The repayment comes from any additional tax revenue generated in the district that didn't exist before it's creation. So if the district had 450 million in sales taxes before creation and the following year has 500 million, then the bond can claim that 50 million increase for repayment.
They don't want to lose the tax revenue. The idea is that the stars district should have a low tax base that will grow considerably solely due to the construction of the stadium.
There are no property taxes levied on residential or commercial real estate to pay for the bonds. It’s strictly paid from sales taxes, and the rate isn’t any higher. It’s just diverted to pay the bond holders.
This seems ridiculous. Jerry World cost $1.3 Billion. Vegas crazy stadium cost $1.9 billion. Inflation will add some so this being $5 billion would be crazy
The title posted here is incorrect - the first bullet point in the article says that the state is providing $1.8B out of $3B in total funding.
The Chiefs will receive $1.8 billion in public funding for a new $3 billion stadium in Kansas — the largest public subsidy ever for a U.S. sports stadium project.
Exactly. The crazy thing is the Kansas government's financial report on this claiming it will be a "boom for Kansas economy" has most of the "boom" from construction.
They claim the labor to build it will cost $1.5 billion and that's evident that it's financial worth it since the taxes/sales/stadium employment will add an additional $100m/year.
Nobody is going to force the construction workers to live in Kansas or shop in Kansas.
Besides, if CONSTRUCTION is the main source of the "economic boom" then why not just use the money on other construction projects like highways and bridges, hospitals...?
That’s assuming it’s local construction workers too. Yeah they will spend money locally while working on the project but as soon as it’s done they’re on to the next city/site
But it brings in 20,000 construction jobs! Just ignore the fact that the majority of them won't be here working on it all 5 years. Once their trade is done, they're gone. But sure? 20k jobs! Woo!
My thoughts exactly. 20,000 temporary jobs, jobs which most likely won't be local. And the entire economic feasibility depends on this... And if you don't count it, it'll take 30 years to "break even", and that's without renovation money spent.
They should just say it's about putting Kansas on the map and giving Kansans something to be proud about. At least then it's be believable.
The current system is designed to protect the interests of those at the top. While the working class struggles in underfunded school districts, the elite ensure their own children attend top tier private or religious institutions. Now, there’s even a push to use public tax dollars to subsidize those private schools, further widening the gap and making sure that success stays within a very small, well connected circle. Why can’t we use tax dollars to fund our business ventures and then keep all the profits?
It’s also designed this way so that the rich and the wealthy can eliminate the competition and lower the chances of kids from a working class family becoming rich.
Imagine how much talent we potentially might have lost out on because the kids from the working class families never had the opportunities to become successful. I have known guys in crappy jobs I have worked in who are smarter than a lot of people in white collar corporate America.
With the way all this is set up, the rich can gatekeep the best job and career opportunities for people in their circle while the working class kids have a higher chance of working for Amazon or driving for Uber. You’d rarely to never see anyone connected to the rich elite do a shitty job like Amazon or Uber.
It’s frustrating to see how the burden of war always falls on the people with the least. While the poor are recruited for one overseas conflict after another, the elite are busy protecting their own. They use their wealth to get their kids into prestigious schools and lean on well connected doctors to sign off on bone spurs medical excuses. They want the benefits of the system without ever having to risk anything themselves.
This is true in the sense that all US school are underfunded imo, but Kansas schools are well funded relative to the rest of the nation. 6th overall by percent of tax payer income (so each tax payer spends much more than average) and 25th overall in dollar amount per child (which is better than it sounds because it has very cheap cost of living). Both of those numbers are significantly better than Missouri.
Schools are funded by property taxes, Johnson county for some reason is one of the wealthiest counties in the country, probably brings the average up. The non-joco schools are getting ass raped in the wake of this
So... both are protecting the epstein files then? And both want free lunches for all kids in schools? And want to protect the ACA? Not the same, but keep telling yourself that so you can sleep at night.
There's a ton of data out there about how the revenue from those things never fully pays for the cost that such a stadium has on its local area. Take a little time and go read about it. There can be short term gains but over the long term, stadium areas tend to be large losses.
This isn't a net positive for KS and it never was.
There is some economic benefit but not in name of a free stadium where it's the only game in game in town. 10-11 times a year. I am in Detroit and it was an economic boon when Lions came back downtown. But you also have baseball, hockey and basketball venues right near each other, so there is something going on all year long. With a dome, they can go more stuff all year long but this gift was far too generous to extremely wealthy Hunt Family
If your expectation is that it be a profit center for the state within 5 years, you are correct. However, consider one example: In 2014 the Dallas Cowboys made the decision to move their headquarters and practice facilities to Frisco, Texas, in a development known as "The Star." When this decision was made, other developers literally from around the world bought adjacent land and developed plans for mixed-use, high-rise, luxury apartments, restaurant and retail. The area became what was called "The $5 Billion Mile." (https://siteselection.com/the-5-billion-mile/). Since, the PGA and Universal Studios have moved to the area, a massive Fields Development, as well as other entities, bringing jobs, quality of life, and revenue to the area. Now, it has become, at last I looked, the $12 Billion Dollar 5 miles. (https://fieldsfrisco.com/over-3500-homes-planned-for-massive-fields-development-in-frisco/) And, FYI, the Hunt family is one of the developer/investors in one of the properties. So, this may be a case where you are playing checkers wondering how this could ever work; yet other entities are playing chess. And, if the Hunts get a SuperBowl, the U.S. Camber of Commerce estimates local economic impact could be $1 billion – fueled by direct spending by visitors and residents, indirect spending at local businesses, employment, and tax revenue. So, is Kansas going to pay for this by selling BBQ on the weekends? No. But there's more to it than what you're thinking.
Wow, Clark Hunt is an asshole and this deal is proof.
In 5 - 10 years when this deal blow up in KS's face...no one will have learned anything unfortunately and they'll still push for publicly funded stadiums.
What a scam perpetrated on the good people of Kansas (State,Cities, and Fans). The outlandish gift to the Hunt family is a sin. There are people whose farms are in jeopardy, there are families who are seeing enormous cost of living increases (food, health care, housing).
Please stand up against this embezzlement.
Tell me billionaires pay enough taxes. This is basically Kansas welfare for billionaires. But can Kansans have decent health care? School and higher ed funding?
Garbage.
Stop electing stupid shitty people. If someone runs for office and they cannot honestly support universal health care, basic human health care, and education - dump them and move on.
Copied what I posted from r/nfl since it was posted a few mins earlier.
As someone who grew up 10 minutes from Arrowhead and has gone there for nearly 30 years, I'm glad my state didn't bend the fucking knee to add another tax to Jackson county residents to fund the Hunts' playplace.
I have a great ton of memories there but this process just showed even with all the winning (more than we've ever had) the last decade and support (tailgates starting at 7 am sometimes, loudest stadium multiple times over the years, billionaires still gonna billionaire and go to the highest bidder.
I'll always still support the Chiefs but fuck Clark Hunt and his business ways with this one trying to spin this as a positive to our fans.
Yeah Missouri is just in the same position Kansas was in before where it gets a close stadium without having to pay for it. Kansas taxpayers lose while its politicians and billionaires win
Won't Missourians technically pay, too? I thought that the bulk of the tax used to pay for it comes from the sales tax charged at and near the facilities. I guess don't buy popcorn or anything at the stadium.
In the same way Kansans paid for part of the stadium in MO. But the difference is, the entire state is on the hook for that money when the star bonds don't make the promised nut.
If there is a Super Bowl or a Final Four held there, Missouri will reap huge benefits from them. All of the pre-game events will be held in downtown Kansas City, Missouri. Hotels and restaurants will be full throughout the metro area. Lots of tax dollars will be sent to Jefferson City.
130+ studies aay you are wrong and tax payers got fucked hard, also kansas is a small market and the new stadium will be one of the smallest domed fields in the league.
Maybe 1 superbowl goes to that stadium in 20 years,
They are just saying in those events, MO will make more money than KS since most of the tourist infrastructure is on the MO side. I don't think anyone is saying this dome will become some kind of unmissable event arena for years to come; seems very likely that only 1 super bowl happens there, ever, if the history of other northern domes are anything to go on.
Wait, those studies say that a neighboring area that pays nothing for the stadium gets zero benefit out of being nearby?
Redditors that have taken exacrly zero econ classes in their lives WAAAYYYY overstate what these "studies" show.
The stadium likely won't make its money back, but to argue a neighboring city that now is paying nothing to the stadium will see zero economic impact is wild, and to claim 130 studies say that is just plain disingenuous.
Predatory capitalism at its core. Crazy work! Add this to the fact that Clark’s wealth and that of his family have significantly increased due to the success of the franchise these last 7 years. The hunts have money to spare but refuse to do so
This is why the Chiefs are in Kansas now, on the Missouri side if the Chiefs want anything the people get to vote. Kansas has a tool that that avoids a public vote which likely would not have passed this deal
People really need to understand how STAR bonds work. The only people paying for this are people who visit the Stadium/Practice Facility and surrounding areas. It's not everyone in Wyandotte and Olathe paying. So this ain't money being 'taken away" from education, transportation, law enforcement, etc because the Chiefs aren't generating money for them.
I will probably have to make a post in the off-season that really breaks this down. I don't think the regular season is a good time for it. But for now the article above explains them pretty well.
If I buy a vibrator from Walmart and it’s in the district, does a portion of the sale go to repay the bond? It’s not a Chiefs branded vibrator or anything.
The author of the link here 100% understands it and your own understanding seems to be very poor.
The entire 293 square mile star bond area which covers all of Wyandotte County and about half of Johnson County will be the "surrounding areas" around the stadium.
The argument being made by you here is that someone buying groceries at Walmart in Olathe or Shawnee as a "surrounding area" of the stadium and any increase in tax revenue at that Walmart is "from the stadium" is absolutely insane and taking money out of the taxpayers hands and placing it directly into the Hunt family's pockets.
It is literally everyone who is shopping in Olathe. Every single sales taxable purchase in Wyandotte County. Someone buys an oil filter for their car at O'Reilly in KCK, they pay for the stadium.
I mean, it is not costing taxpayers directly in that the state taxes I pay go directly to this stadium, but (ceteris paribus) we as a state are losing tax revenue that would have been going to the state to pay for things like education and transportation, instead going to a specific project to benefit a billionaire. I'm not even including the potential lottery funds that might be diverted from paying for those other things towards paying the bonds.
Not collecting taxes from a billion dollar enterprise is a loss to the state tax base and a huge giveaway to the already wealthy.
i.e., there are no free lunches, except for billionaires who don't need them.
It's not as bad of a deal as it would have been under Missouri's scheme, but it's still a bad deal for Kansans.
Now there is an argument to be made that this is a bad deal for Kansas as a whole because they don't stand to gain much from it. That is valid. But the burden on Kansas taxpayers has been overstated.
That is an awful lot of tax in the richest, most visited section of Kansas that will not occur for a long time. That IS tax taken away from things like education, etc.
Wait, i’d like to leave the emotions out of it and actually get some facts straight.
My understanding is that the stadium will be funded through the STAR bonds, the state sells the bonds, raises the funds and then repays the bonds through the sales taxes they’ll get from the stadium’s area, taxpayers in reality will not pay anything extra, basically the stadium will be paid by the people that will actually go to games.
Am I understanding anything wrong here? Studies do show that you can recoup the money through the taxes from the area in relative moderate time and then the rest will be more money into the coffers of the state in the long run.
So while indeed, you give out a new toy to a billionaire, you also make money in the long run by having the team there.
Am I wrong in my understanding?
Genuinely asking, trying to leave the emotions out of it and actually look at it objectively.
The way I understand it, every business in that "STAR bond district" will collect an additional sales tax to pay for the stadium.
Just looking at it logically, it's hard to see how taxes on just Chiefs games at the stadium would ever equal $2B - we're talking like 10 days a year? I could be all wrong though.
Kind of, but it isn't an additional tax. The bond gets access to the tax increment of the businesses that are in the district over time. So the district is formed and it generated 350 million in sales tax last year. This year it generates 400 million. The district can claim that the improvement was responsible for the 50 million increase so it gets access to some of it. Next year it is 410 million, they can claim 60 million (current - base). They don't get every bit of an increase, there may be rules on what counts or certain businesses, and liqour sales are a different beast as well as it is noted by itself in the law. General idea though.
I'm not American, and this is just wrong in so many ways.
But why does the title say $3b by the state? The first item in the article says "The Chiefs will receive $1.8 billion in public funding for a new $3 billion stadium in Kansas", so it's $1.8b?
I can't read the rest without a subscription to this site, does it say $3b by the state somewhere else?
Also, who owns the property? The state 100%, or 60%?
Obviously I don’t want this but it would be kind of poetic justice if in six years this is completed the roster and coaching staff are completely different and we’re back to being irrelevant again. Ticket prices would have to plunge in order to retain consistent sales, but they lose volume since they are cutting ~10k seats.
Yeah, people taking about bringing people and their money into Kansas from MO, but now Kansas will pay billions to get 10k fewer people to come to the metro area for a game due to the smaller stadium. The NFL is also pushing international games like crazy. So in other words they want communities to pay billions to build stadiums with the promise that home games will be a boon to the community, then give away those games and economic returns to international venues. We gave up a home game against the Chargers playing in Brazil this year!
Chiefs fans laughing at chiefs fans losing the team, then more chiefs fans laughing at chiefs fans because they got fucked by a billionaire. You guys realize the real enemy in all of this is the Clark family right and not which side someone is on the state border
The Kansas government shoveled this money into his hands and he just accepted. Blame Hunt all you want but I doubt any sane person would turn that down.
I wouldn't say I'm cocky, but I am Kansan. Nearly everyone in this thread is mistaken, especially the disingenuous clickbait tweet that started it. The deal is at 0 cost to KS taxpayers. For some reason, that lede gets buried even though it's essentially the key to making the stadium deal happen in the first place.
I truly believe billionaires should pay for their own shit, and to that end I say fuck the Hunts. But you and everyone else dunking in KS for getting hosed or robbed or whatever are just wrong.
That's how STAR bonds work... instead of funding the bond with a tax increase (a la the missouri plan), they fund the bond by allocating all of the taxes from certain areas to pay back the debt. Of course, the cost is that the state gets a lower share of tax revenue. Theoretically, the state could come out ahead if the increase in tax revenue from the development is greater than the interest of the bond.... but that's a risky bet to make!
And no one is entirely sure what will happen if the bond defaults... its likely that Kansas will end up paying.
Remind me in 5 years.
A) they probably will not be able to taise %100 of the bonds due to the incoming recession.
B) it does not account for modest inflation. We are currently having high inflation.
C) the project is going to have construction delays and over run costs that will tally up in the 100s of million
I understand exactly how star bonds work. I also understand exactly how fucked the kind people of KCK just got bent over by the Clark family.
Arrowhead is one of the coolest stadiums I’ve been to but that location is garbage. The only two hotels within walking distance gouge to hell and back. If there were more options for lodging it may not cost $700+ on days of a home game.
Don't get me wrong, I hate billionaires. In fact, fuck Hunt. However, this tweet is misleading because KS is footing that bill at no cost to taxpayers. I live in KS, and since I will be spending exactly $0.00 on STAR bonds (because I'm not dumb) then this will financially affect me 0%.
I'm firmly in the camp of billionaires should completely fund their own shit. But this tweet and all the folks in the comments are mistaken, or at least misleading, and in a way that really matters.
Before, during and after the Chiefs' announcement, Kansas lawmakers have been emphatic that stadium STAR bonds will not require state budget funds or impose new taxes on state residents. But John Mozena, president of the Center for Economic Accountability, disputed that argument, likening it to "eating half the entree and all the fries off of someone's plate at dinner but claiming, 'I didn't make you buy me a meal.'"
'Kansas footing the bill at no cost to taxpayers' is quite the oxymoron. Kansas will need to pay back these bonds somehow, and if it isn't through an increased sales tax rate, it will be through city and county budget cuts. I am sure the Wyandotte County coffers are sufficiently prepared to be paying a certain amount of their sales taxes for a stadium the vast majority of their citizens aren't able to go to a game to.
Its the cost of doing business I guess. Spend all the money and the only benefit is you might be able to host a SB in 10 years. Maybe even get a few new stadium acts to come through town, but the chiefs organization will get most of that money too.
Any government, be it county, city, or state, that pays for, even partially, a stadium for a professional sports team is on the wrong end of the deal. For “normal” people, their business has to fund itself. If you’re a landscaping company, do a better job and cut more lawns than your competitors. Then you hire a second crew or a #2 who does what you do.
If you’re a billionaire, just say you’ll move out of the area and any number of places will offer to build you whatever you want despite every study that points to the fact you won’t reap the benefits.
Sam McDowell’s column today is spot on. Let’s just call this what it was, a business decision. This was about money and the super wealthy have the best opportunity to make it at a faster rate.
I really do think the Hunts could have built another stadium in Missouri and they still would have made money, just not as much.
It's a good day to be a Missourian or Clark or Danny Hunt.
It's a bad day to be a Kansan.
Even with whatever costs Missouri ends up having to deal with to demolish Arrowhead and other related infrastructure, they'll still get a huge windfall for people traveling to Chiefs games and events. Any celebrations will still take place at Union Station. The big-ticket galas and events will also happen somewhere between the river and the Plaza. I just don't see the appeal of a black tie event at Legends or Metcalf South (to name a couple places). The airport, and related car rentals, are still in Missouri.
This deal is mindbogglingly awful for the Kansas taxpayers.
This is $3888 (7 mil) rent per year (not month) on a 1million (1.8 bil or in this case free) house. The 4k actually is used to pay maids, not rent. Sign me up.
You mean a billionaire abused the system and made poor people pay for his toys?
You don't say
And the people will keep giving him their money lol
https://preview.redd.it/qe21xtqyg19g1.jpeg?width=223&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=210fb658c1e5702145f0544cd4f9d89bc7cb6c22
Kansas government fucked itself. Can’t blame Hunt for taking the deal.
The area isn’t poor.
The real giveaway in all of this is seeing the STAR bond district doesn't include the Lake Quivira country club and associated million dollar houses that is literally smack dab in the middle. Y'all got punked.
Or Leawood, Prairie Village, or Mission Hills or pretty much any resident on the Kansas side that can afford to go to games at the new stadium.
They probably want to use that area to fund the royals STAR district
They had Tye Masterson on 610 this afternoon and he said something interesting about how the sales tax repayment would only come from new development within the taxing district, and that any existing businesses would not be part of the STAR bond deal. I have not heard that anywhere else, but he is the head of the Kansas Senate, so maybe he's on to something.
There is no way that is mathematically possible. The state of Kansas only makes about 5.5 billion in sales taxes a year through all sources, and that has to be used for a wide range of things. 1.8 billion and interest over twenty years through only new development is a wild lie.
This is incorrect if I'm reading the law correctly. They don't track taxes earned by each business, just the total taxes earned by businesses in the district. The repayment comes from any additional tax revenue generated in the district that didn't exist before it's creation. So if the district had 450 million in sales taxes before creation and the following year has 500 million, then the bond can claim that 50 million increase for repayment.
They don't want to lose the tax revenue. The idea is that the stars district should have a low tax base that will grow considerably solely due to the construction of the stadium.
Is there any public commercial activity outside of real estate at lake quivira? Legit asking cause I’m not allowed in that zip code.
There’s a gas station out front of their gate but that’s pretty much it
Is there a hi-def map of that with labels? The KS commerce one doesn't tell me anything.
There are no property taxes levied on residential or commercial real estate to pay for the bonds. It’s strictly paid from sales taxes, and the rate isn’t any higher. It’s just diverted to pay the bond holders.
I thought Kansas was providing 60% while private investors were providing the other 40%?
They are, this is going to be a very expensive stadium
This seems ridiculous. Jerry World cost $1.3 Billion. Vegas crazy stadium cost $1.9 billion. Inflation will add some so this being $5 billion would be crazy
Inflation in labor and material costs from tariffs have put costs up by a lot this year alone
Almost like the old stadium is fine as it is and there’s no need to pay $5 billion for one
It's $3B, first bullet point in the article
40% of the cost gets them 100% of the profits.
60% is 60% too much
"Messaging"
You are correct.
The title posted here is incorrect - the first bullet point in the article says that the state is providing $1.8B out of $3B in total funding.
Haha. If this stadium could generate money, the Hunts wouldn’t be asking for money from tax payers. They would look for investors! Silly
Exactly. The crazy thing is the Kansas government's financial report on this claiming it will be a "boom for Kansas economy" has most of the "boom" from construction.
They claim the labor to build it will cost $1.5 billion and that's evident that it's financial worth it since the taxes/sales/stadium employment will add an additional $100m/year.
Nobody is going to force the construction workers to live in Kansas or shop in Kansas.
Besides, if CONSTRUCTION is the main source of the "economic boom" then why not just use the money on other construction projects like highways and bridges, hospitals...?
That’s assuming it’s local construction workers too. Yeah they will spend money locally while working on the project but as soon as it’s done they’re on to the next city/site
But it brings in 20,000 construction jobs! Just ignore the fact that the majority of them won't be here working on it all 5 years. Once their trade is done, they're gone. But sure? 20k jobs! Woo!
My thoughts exactly. 20,000 temporary jobs, jobs which most likely won't be local. And the entire economic feasibility depends on this... And if you don't count it, it'll take 30 years to "break even", and that's without renovation money spent.
They should just say it's about putting Kansas on the map and giving Kansans something to be proud about. At least then it's be believable.
Eh why take investor money when you can have interest free money haha
https://i.redd.it/n3ah9r6i119g1.gif
Aww yes empowering a billionaire family that dosnt even hold residence in either state
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Meanwhile Missourians can still easily drive a little further to watch the games if we choose and not have to deal with the taxes.
or the traffic
Holy shit you’re right. No more traffic over here lol
Hey man! Monster trucks and circle track racing will jam shit up... better look out and plan accordingly!
Yeah but thats not every other Sunday for 4 months a year
It’s honestly a much easier drive for me now if I want to pay United Healthcare Stadium ticket prices.
lol at thinking you won’t be dealing with taxes. Granted not this tax - but they will fill that void with something else quickly so you don’t notice.
If you choose to go to a game, the sales tax on that ticket pays for the stadium, lol.
Guess who has 2 thumbs and isnt paying all that to go to a game? This guy!
Sorry to piggy-back but you forgot to add hahahahahahaha hahahaha ha ha jajaja
Kansans already a severely underfunded state for education and infrastructure. Got absolutely wrecked on this deal, Yikes
Tbh people probably want stadiums over better schools. Schools are woke garbage. /s
The current system is designed to protect the interests of those at the top. While the working class struggles in underfunded school districts, the elite ensure their own children attend top tier private or religious institutions. Now, there’s even a push to use public tax dollars to subsidize those private schools, further widening the gap and making sure that success stays within a very small, well connected circle. Why can’t we use tax dollars to fund our business ventures and then keep all the profits?
It’s also designed this way so that the rich and the wealthy can eliminate the competition and lower the chances of kids from a working class family becoming rich.
Imagine how much talent we potentially might have lost out on because the kids from the working class families never had the opportunities to become successful. I have known guys in crappy jobs I have worked in who are smarter than a lot of people in white collar corporate America.
With the way all this is set up, the rich can gatekeep the best job and career opportunities for people in their circle while the working class kids have a higher chance of working for Amazon or driving for Uber. You’d rarely to never see anyone connected to the rich elite do a shitty job like Amazon or Uber.
It’s frustrating to see how the burden of war always falls on the people with the least. While the poor are recruited for one overseas conflict after another, the elite are busy protecting their own. They use their wealth to get their kids into prestigious schools and lean on well connected doctors to sign off on bone spurs medical excuses. They want the benefits of the system without ever having to risk anything themselves.
The ones with a voice already have their kids in nice schools.
"They don't even teach proper creationism anymore!"
This is true in the sense that all US school are underfunded imo, but Kansas schools are well funded relative to the rest of the nation. 6th overall by percent of tax payer income (so each tax payer spends much more than average) and 25th overall in dollar amount per child (which is better than it sounds because it has very cheap cost of living). Both of those numbers are significantly better than Missouri.
Schools are funded by property taxes, Johnson county for some reason is one of the wealthiest counties in the country, probably brings the average up. The non-joco schools are getting ass raped in the wake of this
Can a book run a sub 4.4 40?
3 billion magically appears but we have to pay $400 a year each for bus and pay for what barely passes for food in the school.
And by the times it’s finished Mahomes will be retired and the team will be mid
The chiefs asked Missouri and Kansas to pull their pants down, grab their ankles and brace for a wild ride
Missouri tried to negotiate
Kansas showed up with no pants on to begin with and they even brought their own lube
Republicans LOVE billionaires.
You thinking that's exclusive to R's is adorable. It's the same party, kid.
So... both are protecting the epstein files then? And both want free lunches for all kids in schools? And want to protect the ACA? Not the same, but keep telling yourself that so you can sleep at night.
Lolol
📠 In what language does Kansas translate to Goatse?
When a deal is too bad for Missouri you know you're getting screwed!
“The Clarks” right now.
So, the Chiefs keep all the revenue derived from hotel stays, restaurants, taxes and other economic impacts? Hmmm. 🤔
There's a ton of data out there about how the revenue from those things never fully pays for the cost that such a stadium has on its local area. Take a little time and go read about it. There can be short term gains but over the long term, stadium areas tend to be large losses.
This isn't a net positive for KS and it never was.
There is some economic benefit but not in name of a free stadium where it's the only game in game in town. 10-11 times a year. I am in Detroit and it was an economic boon when Lions came back downtown. But you also have baseball, hockey and basketball venues right near each other, so there is something going on all year long. With a dome, they can go more stuff all year long but this gift was far too generous to extremely wealthy Hunt Family
If your expectation is that it be a profit center for the state within 5 years, you are correct. However, consider one example: In 2014 the Dallas Cowboys made the decision to move their headquarters and practice facilities to Frisco, Texas, in a development known as "The Star." When this decision was made, other developers literally from around the world bought adjacent land and developed plans for mixed-use, high-rise, luxury apartments, restaurant and retail. The area became what was called "The $5 Billion Mile." (https://siteselection.com/the-5-billion-mile/). Since, the PGA and Universal Studios have moved to the area, a massive Fields Development, as well as other entities, bringing jobs, quality of life, and revenue to the area. Now, it has become, at last I looked, the $12 Billion Dollar 5 miles. (https://fieldsfrisco.com/over-3500-homes-planned-for-massive-fields-development-in-frisco/) And, FYI, the Hunt family is one of the developer/investors in one of the properties. So, this may be a case where you are playing checkers wondering how this could ever work; yet other entities are playing chess. And, if the Hunts get a SuperBowl, the U.S. Camber of Commerce estimates local economic impact could be $1 billion – fueled by direct spending by visitors and residents, indirect spending at local businesses, employment, and tax revenue. So, is Kansas going to pay for this by selling BBQ on the weekends? No. But there's more to it than what you're thinking.
Wow, Clark Hunt is an asshole and this deal is proof.
In 5 - 10 years when this deal blow up in KS's face...no one will have learned anything unfortunately and they'll still push for publicly funded stadiums.
Nah they'll just fudge the numbers to make it look like it was a success.
I'd love to have another super bowl parade just so we can boo Clark Hunt. Dunno when else we'd really get a chance
What a scam perpetrated on the good people of Kansas (State,Cities, and Fans). The outlandish gift to the Hunt family is a sin. There are people whose farms are in jeopardy, there are families who are seeing enormous cost of living increases (food, health care, housing). Please stand up against this embezzlement.
Tell me billionaires pay enough taxes. This is basically Kansas welfare for billionaires. But can Kansans have decent health care? School and higher ed funding?
Garbage.
Stop electing stupid shitty people. If someone runs for office and they cannot honestly support universal health care, basic human health care, and education - dump them and move on.
This is why the vote failed twice. Missourians said no welfare for billionaires.
as it should be. Stop giving the wealthy handouts with our taxpayer money and give the help to people who actually need it.
Just another rich person deal. What is wrong with Americans we are bitches who just don’t give a shit or a nation of people with a domination fetish.
Who pays for project overruns
Copied what I posted from r/nfl since it was posted a few mins earlier.
As someone who grew up 10 minutes from Arrowhead and has gone there for nearly 30 years, I'm glad my state didn't bend the fucking knee to add another tax to Jackson county residents to fund the Hunts' playplace.
I have a great ton of memories there but this process just showed even with all the winning (more than we've ever had) the last decade and support (tailgates starting at 7 am sometimes, loudest stadium multiple times over the years, billionaires still gonna billionaire and go to the highest bidder.
I'll always still support the Chiefs but fuck Clark Hunt and his business ways with this one trying to spin this as a positive to our fans.
Fuck every person involved in this bull shit
Let's just say that neither Kansas nor Missouri are winners. Just one might lose less by having the stadium in their state.
The state not paying for a stadium in the KC Metro is the winner by a big margin.
💯
I think Missouri won this pretty fucking hard. What, they gotta drive an extra 15 minutes or so if they want to go to a game?
Yeah Missouri is just in the same position Kansas was in before where it gets a close stadium without having to pay for it. Kansas taxpayers lose while its politicians and billionaires win
Won't Missourians technically pay, too? I thought that the bulk of the tax used to pay for it comes from the sales tax charged at and near the facilities. I guess don't buy popcorn or anything at the stadium.
In the same way Kansans paid for part of the stadium in MO. But the difference is, the entire state is on the hook for that money when the star bonds don't make the promised nut.
Hell Yes We Won ! We are getting a World Class Stadium in a Much Better Location and Kansas is paying the Bill
If there is a Super Bowl or a Final Four held there, Missouri will reap huge benefits from them. All of the pre-game events will be held in downtown Kansas City, Missouri. Hotels and restaurants will be full throughout the metro area. Lots of tax dollars will be sent to Jefferson City.
130+ studies aay you are wrong and tax payers got fucked hard, also kansas is a small market and the new stadium will be one of the smallest domed fields in the league.
Maybe 1 superbowl goes to that stadium in 20 years,
The NFL will do one Super Bowl as a thank you. That’s it. They’ll then go back to their regular rotation of LA, Miami, NOLA, Atlanta, Phoenix, Vegas
They should be in the Final Four rotation though, given that Kansas City already hosts the Big 12 tournament and used to be the NCAA headquarters.
Yeah, I could see F4 rotation being much more likely
I’s say the thank you superbowl is abit of a coin toss, league has been putting a lot of emphasis on how much of attraction the city is.
Stadium in on th side of the highway in the midwest is not an attraction.
You need all those insanely rich celebrities to show up and I doubt they wanna go to Kansas City
Not to mention negative temps and ice storms in February….who wants to deal with that when you can relax in tropical temps?!
They are just saying in those events, MO will make more money than KS since most of the tourist infrastructure is on the MO side. I don't think anyone is saying this dome will become some kind of unmissable event arena for years to come; seems very likely that only 1 super bowl happens there, ever, if the history of other northern domes are anything to go on.
Missouri taxpayers aren’t on the hook for this domed stadium, but the state will benefit from it.
Wait, those studies say that a neighboring area that pays nothing for the stadium gets zero benefit out of being nearby?
Redditors that have taken exacrly zero econ classes in their lives WAAAYYYY overstate what these "studies" show.
The stadium likely won't make its money back, but to argue a neighboring city that now is paying nothing to the stadium will see zero economic impact is wild, and to claim 130 studies say that is just plain disingenuous.
Opposite
Predatory capitalism at its core. Crazy work! Add this to the fact that Clark’s wealth and that of his family have significantly increased due to the success of the franchise these last 7 years. The hunts have money to spare but refuse to do so
Ugh. I was into some of this.
Now I’m far less into it.
This is why the Chiefs are in Kansas now, on the Missouri side if the Chiefs want anything the people get to vote. Kansas has a tool that that avoids a public vote which likely would not have passed this deal
Disgusting. These owners always take advantage of tax payers. It isn't right. The owners are billionaires and should pay for their own damn stadiums.
I have been against tax money being used to build stadiums for a long time now. The rich and wealthy should be paying for their own shit.
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/kansas-city-chiefs-analysis/190523/how-kansas-star-bonds-will-finance-new-stadium
People really need to understand how STAR bonds work. The only people paying for this are people who visit the Stadium/Practice Facility and surrounding areas. It's not everyone in Wyandotte and Olathe paying. So this ain't money being 'taken away" from education, transportation, law enforcement, etc because the Chiefs aren't generating money for them.
I will probably have to make a post in the off-season that really breaks this down. I don't think the regular season is a good time for it. But for now the article above explains them pretty well.
The initial map for the bonds tax area is all of wyandotte and a good chunk of Johnson
If I buy a vibrator from Walmart and it’s in the district, does a portion of the sale go to repay the bond? It’s not a Chiefs branded vibrator or anything.
Walmart sells vibrators?
A selection of them.
The author of the link here 100% understands it and your own understanding seems to be very poor.
The entire 293 square mile star bond area which covers all of Wyandotte County and about half of Johnson County will be the "surrounding areas" around the stadium.
The argument being made by you here is that someone buying groceries at Walmart in Olathe or Shawnee as a "surrounding area" of the stadium and any increase in tax revenue at that Walmart is "from the stadium" is absolutely insane and taking money out of the taxpayers hands and placing it directly into the Hunt family's pockets.
It is literally everyone who is shopping in Olathe. Every single sales taxable purchase in Wyandotte County. Someone buys an oil filter for their car at O'Reilly in KCK, they pay for the stadium.
I mean, it is not costing taxpayers directly in that the state taxes I pay go directly to this stadium, but (ceteris paribus) we as a state are losing tax revenue that would have been going to the state to pay for things like education and transportation, instead going to a specific project to benefit a billionaire. I'm not even including the potential lottery funds that might be diverted from paying for those other things towards paying the bonds.
Not collecting taxes from a billion dollar enterprise is a loss to the state tax base and a huge giveaway to the already wealthy.
i.e., there are no free lunches, except for billionaires who don't need them.
It's not as bad of a deal as it would have been under Missouri's scheme, but it's still a bad deal for Kansans.
Now there is an argument to be made that this is a bad deal for Kansas as a whole because they don't stand to gain much from it. That is valid. But the burden on Kansas taxpayers has been overstated.
That's cool. Unless the bonds end up not covering all that they agreed to, and then it's on the taxpayers.
Fingers crossed for you I guess that the star bonds end up being enough!
That is an awful lot of tax in the richest, most visited section of Kansas that will not occur for a long time. That IS tax taken away from things like education, etc.
You don't seem to understand how taxes work.
Wait, i’d like to leave the emotions out of it and actually get some facts straight.
My understanding is that the stadium will be funded through the STAR bonds, the state sells the bonds, raises the funds and then repays the bonds through the sales taxes they’ll get from the stadium’s area, taxpayers in reality will not pay anything extra, basically the stadium will be paid by the people that will actually go to games.
Am I understanding anything wrong here? Studies do show that you can recoup the money through the taxes from the area in relative moderate time and then the rest will be more money into the coffers of the state in the long run.
So while indeed, you give out a new toy to a billionaire, you also make money in the long run by having the team there.
Am I wrong in my understanding?
Genuinely asking, trying to leave the emotions out of it and actually look at it objectively.
The way I understand it, every business in that "STAR bond district" will collect an additional sales tax to pay for the stadium.
Just looking at it logically, it's hard to see how taxes on just Chiefs games at the stadium would ever equal $2B - we're talking like 10 days a year? I could be all wrong though.
Kind of, but it isn't an additional tax. The bond gets access to the tax increment of the businesses that are in the district over time. So the district is formed and it generated 350 million in sales tax last year. This year it generates 400 million. The district can claim that the improvement was responsible for the 50 million increase so it gets access to some of it. Next year it is 410 million, they can claim 60 million (current - base). They don't get every bit of an increase, there may be rules on what counts or certain businesses, and liqour sales are a different beast as well as it is noted by itself in the law. General idea though.
So we can sign Crosby AND Saquon? Thank you Kansas!
Does anyone have the full list of items outlined in the article?
I'm not American, and this is just wrong in so many ways.
But why does the title say $3b by the state? The first item in the article says "The Chiefs will receive $1.8 billion in public funding for a new $3 billion stadium in Kansas", so it's $1.8b?
I can't read the rest without a subscription to this site, does it say $3b by the state somewhere else?
Also, who owns the property? The state 100%, or 60%?
Obviously I don’t want this but it would be kind of poetic justice if in six years this is completed the roster and coaching staff are completely different and we’re back to being irrelevant again. Ticket prices would have to plunge in order to retain consistent sales, but they lose volume since they are cutting ~10k seats.
Yeah, people taking about bringing people and their money into Kansas from MO, but now Kansas will pay billions to get 10k fewer people to come to the metro area for a game due to the smaller stadium. The NFL is also pushing international games like crazy. So in other words they want communities to pay billions to build stadiums with the promise that home games will be a boon to the community, then give away those games and economic returns to international venues. We gave up a home game against the Chargers playing in Brazil this year!
We were the away team in Brazil, that’s why we played them at home two weeks ago.
That’s why KC said no.
Chiefs fans laughing at chiefs fans losing the team, then more chiefs fans laughing at chiefs fans because they got fucked by a billionaire. You guys realize the real enemy in all of this is the Clark family right and not which side someone is on the state border
The Kansas government shoveled this money into his hands and he just accepted. Blame Hunt all you want but I doubt any sane person would turn that down.
Where are all the cocky Kansans now? Hilarious.
I haven't talked to a single kansan outside kc that wanted this.
Yup. I hope they enjoy paying for the millionaire’s luxury suites
I wouldn't say I'm cocky, but I am Kansan. Nearly everyone in this thread is mistaken, especially the disingenuous clickbait tweet that started it. The deal is at 0 cost to KS taxpayers. For some reason, that lede gets buried even though it's essentially the key to making the stadium deal happen in the first place.
I truly believe billionaires should pay for their own shit, and to that end I say fuck the Hunts. But you and everyone else dunking in KS for getting hosed or robbed or whatever are just wrong.
STAR Bonds get paid off by tax revenue...
Where is the source that it’s “0 cost to taxpayers”?
They said that “no new state taxes”, they did not mention new local taxes
That's how STAR bonds work... instead of funding the bond with a tax increase (a la the missouri plan), they fund the bond by allocating all of the taxes from certain areas to pay back the debt. Of course, the cost is that the state gets a lower share of tax revenue. Theoretically, the state could come out ahead if the increase in tax revenue from the development is greater than the interest of the bond.... but that's a risky bet to make!
And no one is entirely sure what will happen if the bond defaults... its likely that Kansas will end up paying.
So funded by tax money. Got it.
Likely that Kansans will end up paying if the bond falls through? Who else would pay it???
Remind me in 5 years.
A) they probably will not be able to taise %100 of the bonds due to the incoming recession. B) it does not account for modest inflation. We are currently having high inflation.
C) the project is going to have construction delays and over run costs that will tally up in the 100s of million
I understand exactly how star bonds work. I also understand exactly how fucked the kind people of KCK just got bent over by the Clark family.
Welcome to fuking Capitalism or should I say Greed.
Arrowhead is one of the coolest stadiums I’ve been to but that location is garbage. The only two hotels within walking distance gouge to hell and back. If there were more options for lodging it may not cost $700+ on days of a home game.
Don't get me wrong, I hate billionaires. In fact, fuck Hunt. However, this tweet is misleading because KS is footing that bill at no cost to taxpayers. I live in KS, and since I will be spending exactly $0.00 on STAR bonds (because I'm not dumb) then this will financially affect me 0%.
I'm firmly in the camp of billionaires should completely fund their own shit. But this tweet and all the folks in the comments are mistaken, or at least misleading, and in a way that really matters.
When the star bonds district doesn't cover the promised nut (it won't, they don't work), where exactly does that money come from then?
No need to worry, that’s when the invisible funny money comes in and saves the day. It’s a free stadium and a free entertainment district!
From the KCBJ article.
It’s a perfect simile.
'Kansas footing the bill at no cost to taxpayers' is quite the oxymoron. Kansas will need to pay back these bonds somehow, and if it isn't through an increased sales tax rate, it will be through city and county budget cuts. I am sure the Wyandotte County coffers are sufficiently prepared to be paying a certain amount of their sales taxes for a stadium the vast majority of their citizens aren't able to go to a game to.
Hmm except youre forgetting about the part where if the STAR bonds DON'T pay for all they agreed, then it will be on you as a Kansan taxpayer :)
Enjoy!
Look at the region for the star bonds. It's half the kcks metro bud. Even if you're not in there there is a huge chunk of ppl that are.
Bro how does a state foot a bill without charging the taxpayers lol
Rip kansas. Huge L
That’s what yall MFers get for being greedy and stealing the team.
...Kansas is somehow the 18th smartest state, and yet here we are.
Hmmmmm… I wonder why the Chiefs accepted this deal.?
Its the cost of doing business I guess. Spend all the money and the only benefit is you might be able to host a SB in 10 years. Maybe even get a few new stadium acts to come through town, but the chiefs organization will get most of that money too.
Well played.
https://preview.redd.it/gjmdlxwnh19g1.jpeg?width=1206&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bbdaea82ba87c9d120d7e97d6d7d574d69ad8bc1
Brat billionaire born into the lottery
Socialism for the rich once again when are people going to wake the fuck up
Leave it to redditors to bitch and complain about everything. Just shut up and consoom.
Sounds about right. Not just limited to the NFL dealings, all of our politicians have been purchased by big business interests of some sort.
Star bonds are based off growth.
Shocking
It's hilarious because Kansans were telling me just yesterday they got a super good deal and Missouri was stupid.
Any government, be it county, city, or state, that pays for, even partially, a stadium for a professional sports team is on the wrong end of the deal. For “normal” people, their business has to fund itself. If you’re a landscaping company, do a better job and cut more lawns than your competitors. Then you hire a second crew or a #2 who does what you do.
If you’re a billionaire, just say you’ll move out of the area and any number of places will offer to build you whatever you want despite every study that points to the fact you won’t reap the benefits.
Sam McDowell’s column today is spot on. Let’s just call this what it was, a business decision. This was about money and the super wealthy have the best opportunity to make it at a faster rate.
I really do think the Hunts could have built another stadium in Missouri and they still would have made money, just not as much.
I’ll support the team but im not buying shit from them
yeah... good luck kansas.
It's a good day to be a Missourian or Clark or Danny Hunt.
It's a bad day to be a Kansan.
Even with whatever costs Missouri ends up having to deal with to demolish Arrowhead and other related infrastructure, they'll still get a huge windfall for people traveling to Chiefs games and events. Any celebrations will still take place at Union Station. The big-ticket galas and events will also happen somewhere between the river and the Plaza. I just don't see the appeal of a black tie event at Legends or Metcalf South (to name a couple places). The airport, and related car rentals, are still in Missouri.
This deal is mindbogglingly awful for the Kansas taxpayers.
Wrong. The revenue is paying off 40% of the cost of the stadium imperial
Kansas politicians must hate their constituents lmao
This is $3888 (7 mil) rent per year (not month) on a 1million (1.8 bil or in this case free) house. The 4k actually is used to pay maids, not rent. Sign me up.
Say no to domes