I'm at a loss after 16 months of drama with my MIL who after using every tactic in the book, now claims to be "sorry." I'll keep this brief as possible.
We naively accepted a visit with my husband's family when I was three weeks postpartum. They don't live in the same province as us, and because my husband's family is super close (more on that later), it wasn't a question of whether or not they'd stay with us.
They stayed with us for 10 days and about two days in I was miserable. I was recovering from a C-Section, trying to get breastfeeding going and my husband was struggling to bond with the baby.
MIL swept in and immediately made it all about her. She made critical comments, comparing me to my SIL (she already had a routine for her baby at this point, etc.), told us our baby's legs were crooked and we should be massaging them daily to "straighten them out," told me if I ate Indian food it would turn baby's poo green, made comments to my husband about how baby was STARVING and they should give him water. When he had witching hour in the evenings she'd needlessly amp up the anxiety, saying he must have colic.
It also became clear she was just there to hold the baby. There was enormous pressure on both me and my husband to give him to her. Because I was trying to establish milk supply it came to a point where I'd nurse him, bring him downstairs to her to hold, and then return upstairs to pump by myself in my room. She would mimic things I did with him – like I had a little routine where I'd put him in a carrier in the morning and listen to a special playlist with him and sing, one morning when I brought him downstairs she asked my husband to help her get a carrier on so she could do the same. They didn't take a single photo of me with my newborn while they were there, or a photo of my husband and I with our son. It was all photos of MIL and baby and one of my husband and baby.
She knew my husband had been trained to accommodate her needs/wants his whole life and so every time he had our son, she'd try to take him. One day when our son was crying while she was holding him I tried to take him back and she physically turned away from me. When I told my husband to take him from her she told him to go wash his hands. She decided to "reorganize" our kitchen while I was incapacitated upstairs. She helped with laundry but they didn't cook at all and she refused to leave the house because she was "here for the baby." My husband would go grocery shopping and take his dad with him so I would be alone in the house with her. When baby was crying in our room at night she'd message my husband asking to come in and help. She insisted on helping give him baths – just no respect for us wanting to establish our own bond as a family unit.
It was horrible, super hard on our marriage at a time where neither of us was at our best, and after they left we had a fight I'll never forget. My husband told her she was too intense afterwards and raised some of the issues that came up.
Basically this tension remained in our marriage for the first year of our son's life. She put tons of pressure on my husband who I've now come to realize is enmeshed with his family – he is and his siblings are, it's deeply ingrained and they're all fully onboard. She became extremely competitive with my parents, telling my husband they weren't making her feel very invited to come visit (which is nuts from a grown woman, I think?). No visit is ever long enough for her, we're never sending her enough photos or giving her enough access to him. While he was still processing everything my husband became like a stranger to me. We were so disconnected. He couldn't get over the comparison of the relationship I have with my parents vs. his parents even though they haven't tried to have a relationship with me at all other than a path to the baby.
Once, my SIL texted my husband directly saying their mom couldn't see my Instagram stories but everyone else could – basically suggesting I had blocked her. SIL and I do text (not often) and communicate on IG so it's odd that if she thought it was a glitch she wouldn't ask me directly.
We started couples counseling and my husband started to see the light. We went to visit his family at Christmas and there were more passive aggressive comments. Every time she held our baby she'd take him out of my line of vision and get a family member to take a million photographs of them together. There was one point where she challenged my "no" – making me reiterate several times that I didn't want her to do an activity with my son and then said to him "Sorry baby, I want to let you but mama says no." She'd hover behind me constantly and there was one incident where she thought he was reaching for her while she was hovering behind me and my SIL told her "just grab him." My husband and I spent Christmas whisper fighting in the guest bedroom at their house. He again told her how she was being overbearing and highlighted some of the main issues with her behaviour and not respecting me as a parent.
She had given me slippers when we got to their house, which she always does, she's Filipino so it's the norm. They were just a pair of slippers, not wrapped or anything. I was wearing thick socks at the time and was on the ground with baby so I didn't put them on and honestly I just forgot about them/didn't know where they ended up in the Christmas chaos. Before we left, MIL told my BIL that I had rejected a gift from her.
My husband worked out of the country in a tropical destination for about a month and his extended family all planned to come for a visit. They had their trip dates booked a year in advance. My husband's family of origin then decided to come too but booked their trips with a month's notice. For a couple of reasons, including work logistics and wanting some vacation time for our nuclear family, I chose to book my dates with less overlap with them – 3-4 days instead of 5-6. When they found out my dates were different, they freaked. Husband's SIL and mom went after him in their family What's App (which I'm not a part of). MIL and FIL ended up changing their trip dates to overlap with mine for 6 days.
Having the extended family there was nice as a buffer, actually. I didn't think it went too terribly. MIL tried taking our now toddler out of my line of sight and turning him away from me, when our son reached for my FIL and went to him, she immediately took him away. Both times our son wanted to return to us and we were able to get him back. I think with the extended family observing she became more tentative and so it wasn't horrible. My husband even set a boundary that we wouldn't be able to spend time with them on their last day so that felt good. But she made comments to my husband about me being mad at her or observing that the vibe was off.
The trip ended, we all went home except my husband, who stayed for the rest of the month. I was solo parenting and working and up to my eyeballs in stuff. I posted a video to IG and MIL decided she wanted a copy for herself so she asked my husband to send it to her and he texted me asking for it. It annoyed me – they have no relationship with me anymore, and there's no awareness of how busy I am when I'm solo parenting and how I'm at full capacity. It's just about her not having enough access and expecting me to be more like my SIL or have that same tie to her. My husband told her now's not a good time because my hands were full and then had a big conversation with his dad explaining all the reasons for the tensions and all the ways things have gone wrong this past year.
Now MIL has it in her head all she has to do is ingratiate herself to me/apologize. I've actually had to restrict her from my IG because she sends me comments on everything I post, sometimes multiple. She sent me an apology text (not taking accountability and saying it was unintentional harm, but apologizing for causing harm) asking to have a conversation. This nearly 80-year-old woman has had an outsized presence in my life for the past 16 months. The enmeshed relationship nearly destroyed our marriage. My husband has come to believe she's a narcissist. I returned her text, thanking her for the apology but saying I had my hands full with solo parenting and saying when my husband got back we'd discuss whether there needed to be further conversation but that I understood he had already told her what we need as a family going forward.
When husband got home, she was bugging him to do a video call immediately. We held off for a few days, but then when we spoke to them a few days after his return she made digs about my family on the call. About an hour after we'd hung up, she called and left me a voicemail apologizing for being "rude."
Yesterday, I received a handwritten letter in the mail that said: "We have heard from [HUSBAND] that there have been several incidents in which we inadvertently caused you to be upset and we were oblivious to the hurt we had caused you. We look forward to having a conversation with you about these issues, the background or underlying causes and how we can avoid causing any more incidents in the future.
We are deeply sorry to have caused you any hurt or trauma. All we want is to have a kind, happy, mutually respectful and loving relationship with you, HUSBAND + BABY for our remaining years."
When we did our weekly video call yesterday while I was offscreen in the background, they awkwardly asked my husband in front of our toddler if we'd received the letter and tried to get into it. He was caught off guard and I fear might've been a bit too dismissive so that their take away is going to be "we're all moving forward." As in water under the bridge.
As much as I want my son to have a relationship with them, I can never forget how they treated me postpartum. And even if I could dismiss a year's worth of incidents as a series of miscommunications/different approaches, I can't forget how she doubled down on pressuring my husband, trying every tactic from the silent treatment, to guilt, to manipulation, to smear campaigns, to bullying and triangulation to get what she wants.
How do we handle this letter?
It's hard for me to take it as a genuine apology – they claim ignorance which isn't really true because my husband has brought it up several times. I made clear that any further conversation would be on mine and husband's terms. The "mutually respectful" comment feels like a dig when I've never been anything but respectful until I gave birth to our son and started setting boundaries which I guess they see as disrespect? And then "our remaining years" tracks for a common line of manipulation I've seen MIL use with my husband, constantly reminding him that she's going to die soon because she's old.
If I'm honest, even if it were a genuine apology, I'm not going to feel better. It will take time, distance, and changed behaviour for me to feel more comfortable around them. And even then, I don't trust her to be alone with my son – I've seen her bite back our toddler niece when she bit her. Our therapists have stressed that my husband should be the one to have boundary setting conversations with them but I feel like there's this view that I'm the problem now and they just need to get through me to get what they want. My emotional safety with them has been destroyed. I am definitely in mama bear mode, especially because she always says "can I take him?" instead of just sitting with me and my son and being with us all together.
There's also the cultural difference. I'm white and my husband is half Filipino and half white. I recognize there are differences in our family systems. I love the idea of having a village but that village needs to support me as well as my baby, not tear me down.
My husband is making progress and starting to see where his family's behaviour has been harmful. It's decades of programming he's working through and it's not easy work. Now I'm doubting myself of whether I've become the problem, or if it's all valid and we just need to develop a better way of communicating boundaries that makes it clear they aren't getting between us anymore and that our family unit is the priority. Any advice is appreciated. Help.
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Reading this makes me feel sick. I had a very similar postpartum experience. My MIL used my postpartum time to bond with my son. She was just there to hold him. I’ll never get over how it made me feel and the resentment I have for her runs deep. Hugs 🫂
God, I feel so bad for you. What you went through was absolutely trash, and you deserve to be heard and have your boundaries respected by your in-laws and your husband. I suspect the letter is, in your Mil's mind, her 'get out of jail free' card.
If you wish to respond to the letter before you speak to them, I would suggest something like, "Thank you for the letter, it was unexpected and the gesture is appreciated. Whilst I too hope that we can have a long-lasting happy and healthy family bond, the damage done is extensive and will have long-reaching affect on how our relationship functions going forward."
You've got this. Pleasant, polite, and calm are enormous weapons against this kind of behaviour, and 'no' is a full-sentence. You don't negotiate with emotional terrorists. You do not owe anyone justifications, explanations, or definitions of the things you want for yourself and your child. You can decide when you feel ready to talk them through your rules and their bad behaviour.
As a receiver of three of these kinds of letters, I will never understand them. They are overwhelming and make it next to impossible to address everything mentioned. My mil sent me one that was 8 pages and filled with lies and excuses. How am I supposed to handle that? A line by line discussion? No thanks....
I can relate to your message so much. I don’t know why women are so often villainized by our husband’s families during postpartum.
I hope new parents who are wondering where to place their boundaries read this post. I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with this. I’m NC with my MIL for 13 years now and it’s been GLORIOUS.
Hate to say it but NC was the only thing that worked for me too to protect my peace. So sorry to hear about your experience, it sounds so much like my own. Twice. Except my MIL is a Chinese narcissist. Especially the photo part. Sigh. OP, I hope you go and get some nice photos taken of you and your kids, you deserve it.
If my husband had a brother, I would have sworn this was about my MIL. She never, ever, accepted me.
We had the postpartum visit that went to Hades. She called a cab between the time my husband left for work and before I came out of the bedroom and went to a hotel. She had to stay at the hotel for 2 days before she could get her flight changed. She called her mother and cried on her shoulder. Her mother in turn told the rest of the family. We proceeded to be harassed with phone calls and hateful, disgusting voicemails. His grandmother called me a bitch as she was yelling at my husband on the phone. Our son was less than a month old.
We went NC for 7 years. My husband’s grandfather father had a major stroke. We dropped everything and drove 32 hours straight. This was the first time my son would meet the entire family on my husband’s side.
Thankfully, we didn’t see too much of his mother during that trip. We had the opportunity to talk individually with her brothers, their wives and her sister individually and collectively. Interestingly enough, during our 7 years of NC, the rest of the family finally started to see that what we said was true. We were able to make amends and move forward. His grandmother never apologized for calling me a bitch, but given the situation, I was the bigger person. No such conversation with MIL.
Over the course of the next 3 years, we made 3 more trips to visit my in laws, 4 counting grandfathers funeral at the end of those 3 years; my son was 7-10 during this time.
Like OP, I wanted my son to have a larger extended family. During each of our visits, we made sure that MIL had 1:1 time with our son, including overnight. The only rule I had was there were no rules and have fun.
The relationship with MIL over the course of those years deteriorated significantly with us as well as the rest of the family. She took a professional picture of the 3 of us (our son in between us), cut me out of it and posted it on FB saying how handsome her grandson was. When my husband called her out on it, “I was showing how much he looks like you”.
And then, what do you know, I once again have become the villain (IDEK what it was I did this time). We have now been NC for 5 years; my son is 15.
The one thing I would strongly encourage OP to do is to talk with her husband about coming to an agreement on clearly defined boundaries for MIL, and if possible, have an in person conversation where your husband delivers the boundaries. It has to come from him, in front of you. He has to stand up to her and back you up 100% in that moment (even if he doesn’t agree or isn’t aware of whatever she brings up). Your husband has to stand unwavering to her. It’s brutally hard, but so important. He doesn’t want the current ending we have.
Good luck OP, and stand firm Queen
How would cutting you out of the picture prove how much he looks like his dad?? Surely, both parents in the picture will make it more obvious that he looks more like dad than mum??? Her reasoning doesn't even make sense 🤣🤣 why are some MiLs so threatened by the fact their son has procreated ?
Exactly!!
That is just one example of the shenanigans she did/said.
As a first generatiin Fil-Am woman, take her apology tour with a grain of salt. Your peace will depend on it.
I don't have kids, but me and my siblings have a similar Mom to your MIL. I have watched and been subject to the subtle and not so subtle manipulation of family for decades.
I am unsure what in this generation of Filipino JNMoms and JNMILs that makes this so, but they believe they are entitled to everyone deferring to them. Your gut telling you to be cautious is great instinct. You bow too early or flinch, she'll take a mile.
They'll bring up fealty to them as parents. You don't owe them that. They'll guilt you about being far away. That is a choice they made. They'll try to go through only your husband. They can't have access to your kiddo without going through both of you.
I'm so glad you and your husband have therapy. When you stand stronger together, it will become easier. Remind each other that what matters is your growing unit of a family. Not taking their advice or limiting how much say they have doesn't mean you're terrible parents, it means you are grown adults with the best interest of your family in your hearts.
Don't talk to them until you're ready. Keep talking with yiur husband especially when it gets hard. If you are there for each other and your family, you can figure it out.
Matapang ikaw. Kaya mo yan!
Thank you so much for commenting. You're right about the fealty and when we moved away she definitely laid the guilt on thick. They do only go through my husband which is an issue I've raised with him and he has communicated to them.
Maraming salamat!
"Perhaps over time, if we see that you are able to respect us as our child's sole parents, we can rebuild the type of relationship where we start to spend time together again."
Exactly this. The letters and urgent attempts to get some sort of a 'we accept your apology,' smells like love bombing. I think she noticed him standing a little stronger and wants to claw her way back in.
But apologies aren't what matter, actions are. If she's still making comments, trying to dominate time with your son, being dramatic, you want to pull back even further. If she actually behaves properly for several small meetings (with very big gaps! Month-long gaps!) And accepts that fewer visits and calls are consequences of her actions, then sure.
...but I suspect she'll crack and go back to trying to gain control of her son and her grandchild after just a few visits because trust takes a long time to build after it's been broken, and these MILs just ain't got time to be reasonable.
lol my MIL tried to lovebomb/fool me with cupcakes and sweets but in the end could not wait long enough either and resorted to double teaming with her clone daughter to snatch my baby for photo opps. They have not had access to us to even snatch a baby for a year and a half since. So true, they don’t have the patience for or intention of restoring relationship. But seriously, you think a chocolate cake is going to make up for the hell you put me through?
I’m sorry friend. I’m only 11 weeks postpartum but in a very similar situation. I hope so much that you and your husband can navigate this. I do think there are glimmers of hope in their response to you now, but I agree that postpartum is an incredibly difficult and vulnerable time and the impressions are deep.
I'm so sorry that you're in a similar situation. You're in the trenches, prioritize you, your partner and little one. I wish so much I had. We wasted too much of what's an incredibly special time – a time you don't get to do over – fighting about MIL's feelings. Wishing you strength (and sleep), month 4 got a lot easier for me and after 9 months it's so much fun.
Don’t do anything with her. She’ll always be a bitch. Come up with 2-3 boundaries and really fight for them. One would be taking baby from you without permission. The boundaries will change when time goes on but 2-3 and make her stick to them.
Apologies are not erasers.
Some actions and words permanently alter relationships.
Apologies are not erasers
I’m sorry you felt that way. Is NOT an apology. It takes no responsibility for her actions which were purposeful.
You have earned a break to heal.
A relationship with a manipulative grandparent is not better than no relationship.
A relationship with someone who does not respect the child’s parents is not a healthy relationship and not in the child’s best interest.
Grand-parenting is a privilege, not a right.
Your child is not their emotional support anything.
You are in an abusive relationship with his parents.
You have earned the right to a break to heal.
Apologies are not erasers.
Their wants are not your priorities.
They do not have to right to your time or your child’s time.
No is a complete sentence.
I’m sorry you felt that way IS NOT AN APOLOGY.
Therapy therapy therapy.
I love this, thank you. And yes, we are spending a fortune on therapy, both individual and couples sessions, don't worry.
It's funny I didn't even read the "I'm sorry you felt that way" message in her "apology" but you're right, it's there, isn't it?
Sure is.
I’m sorry our innocent actions were perceived incorrectly by you. Since you continue to be wrong please let us know what you need so we can continue to be right when we listen to you but keep doing the same thing. After all this your problem and we are but innocent bystanders. Nothing is our fault. We have good intentions.
That’s how I read it anyway.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I needed this 15 years ago
3-5 years ago, I would have printed this and hung it on the bedroom door as words of affirmation. I'm petty, I probably would have also put it on his side of the sink, in front of the kitchen sink, mini versions in his work notebooks...
That MIL would have been the death of me! I'm surprised you did not kick her out during that 10 days stay.
Filipino MILs are a different breed. Most are meddling and overbearing - speaking from experience.
Stand your ground. That apology is most likely just for manipulation and control again.
You can just tell her apology accepted but access denied.
It's too great a risk to endanger your marriage like that again.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say that sometimes people can be sorry. And if they're truly sorry, they'll stay sorry, regardless of that conversation happening. You know why? Sorry people understand that there are consequences and they accept them. If you tell her no conversation and she gets mad- she's not sorry, she's manipulative.
You can forgive her without giving access too. You can forgive a snake for biting you, that doesn't mean you pick it up for a snuggle again.
Honestly, I think you need to tell her to stop. When she brings it up, one of you should ask "what would you be hoping a conversation would achieve?" Then after they say why, your husband should say "when I had this conversation with Dad, I was intending to make Dad aware that your overstepping was out of control and that both of you needed to be a bit more respectful. I was not intending for you to rope my wife into this. We don't need to have a conversation about underlying causes, we need you to commit to respecting us as parents, commit to not taking my child out of our sight, and commit to giving us a little space and letting us reach out on our terms. You don't need a conversation with us in order to do this, and we don't need to talk about anything you need from us. If you need to have a conversation, then we aren't able to accept your apology. So are you going to respect that or do we need to take a break for awhile for you to think?"
Tell her no conversation. Let her react the way she wants, then set whatever boundaries you want.
This is great, thank you so much.
Thank heavens she's 80
I rounded up a tiny bit but she's close.
You made a comment about your husband reflecting about the difference between his and your family, can you talk more about that? Was he disappointed or confused? Just wondering.
You’re doing great. I have issues with my FIL and his 3rd wife. I had to wash my hands of their shenanigans and leave it to my husband. I hear things from distant relatives that I’m to blame for everything my husband now does to stand up for himself, but I just had to let it go. I can’t change their minds. Honestly, at this point my trying to change their minds would just be disingenuous.
If you’re down for an audiobook, maybe check out the Let Them Theory. While it’s not all gold, there are some good tips in there.
Well my parents have been really respectful and followed our lead. They've fed me while my husband's been away for work, and really bent over backwards to support us. I said no visitors at the hospital and they respected it even though I think it wasn't what my mom had imagined. They haven't tried to come between us in our marriage and so we have a much different relationship – one where trust has been earned and they respect us as authorities as the parents.
My husband had a really hard time with this at first. Like he sees my parents having these moments with our son that he had always imagined his parents having. And his mom has been horrible and his dad has enabled her and so they don't have the same closeness.
It makes me crazy to hear him compare them because they're completely different relationships. My parents also live in the same city as us. So it's not really a fair comparison and it doesn't do any good. Part of it is that his mom has made comments to him I know. His mom can't help herself but make digs at my parents – she's always done it and it mildly annoyed me before baby arrived, now that my parents have kept me afloat this past year through the incredible emotional hardship and newborn exhaustion, it really pisses me off.
She's very competitive and she has tried to make him feel like even having a nice time with my parents is a betrayal. I think she's succeeded. He's still grieving the relationship he wanted to have.
What is with these women and their need to physically control other people's children? That's what keeps jumping out at me here. She needs to hold the baby, she needs to decide who gets to hold the baby, she needs to direct where the baby looks and who the baby looks at. It would make me crazy, too! I'd be strongly inclined to tell her no touching the kid at all until and unless she is asked to, by you or your toddler personally, but you just know there would be a ton of comments about it. It's sort of ironic that her goal is to wear you down and here she is, wearing you down, yet it's not working out the way she hoped. No one ever said thank you to the person grinding them into the dirt. At least not sincerely.
I wish I had advice for you beyond keep telling her no. And maybe ask her, the next time she's really obviously way out of line, if that's what she wants to be doing when Jesus comes back. It probably won't work but it's sure fun to say.
I don't get it either. It's not good enough just to be around him, she needs to be manipulating him like he's a prop. Or having ownership of him. Either way, it's not cool.
That does sound fun to say, I'll keep it in my back pocket.
“OH, thanks, I’d love to see you, but <insert your excuse here: daycare, recovering from shots, etc.>” When MIL pushes you, simply say, “We already discussed this, didn’t we? We can’t get together this week/month. Thanks for the offer and for respecting my decision.” If she just comes over, play dumb: “Oh my goodness! You didn’t get the memo! My son can’t come out to play today because <he’s got smallpox/is hatching a chicken/just doesn’t want to>. I know it’s a long drive home; I hope you don’t get too tired!” Then shut the door.
It sounds like, though your husband is learning how to deal with his mom, you’re going to have to do it for him for now. Good luck!
Yep. I learned early on that being very direct (but not unkind) with my MIL was the only way to keep my sanity. And honestly, I believe we’ve avoided a lot of issues because of it.
I do think it’s important for your husband to generally have your back, but probably not realistic to have him literally speak for you in every situation.
You are not the problem. She didn’t “inadvertently” cause you to be upset. She did A, B, and C. If you have a conversation with them, don’t let the focus on her behaviors be hijacked by “the background or underlying causes.” No. No. No. Stay focused on the behaviors that were and are unacceptable, such as taking your baby to another room and unilaterally overlapping their vacation days when you planned for alone time with your nuclear family, not extended family. And be sure to use those words, extended family, so she knows she isn’t calling the shots when it comes to YOU, YOUR baby and YOUR husband.
I don't even know what "the background or underlying causes" means. The "unintentionally" and "inadvertently" are a complete cop out and it's disingenuous. I know my husband has told her multiple times.
You're right that I think we need to make it very clear that OUR family doesn't include them.
They are only apologizing to get access to your child. They treated you as if you didn't exist, and made it all about them, snatching and running away with your baby. I would see them as little as possible and decline FaceTime calls. They abused you mercilessly, and a few faux apologies won't undo the damage they have done. Sounds like your parents are much better grandparents so spend more time with them. I would have a very hard time truly forgiving your ILs and I hope your husband sees how heinous they are. You need a nice long break.
These apologies are rarely genuine. I have been through something similar. Apologies from my MIL are attempts to reset the narrative in her favor, avoid real accountability and change, and regain her perceived control. My advice is to practice saying “No.” until it becomes easier for you. She needs to learn that you did not have a baby for her. For a good, long time the answer to trying to take your baby from you must be a firm NO. Any attempts to remove baby from your line of sight must be confronted and stopped. Eventually, she will either change her behavior or leave you alone. Hang in there and I wish you the best!
Thank you, this is a good reminder. I've been of the mind that "if he wants to go to her that's OK." But it's a good reminder that if I'm not digging the vibe it's my job to be my son's advocate until he can advocate for himself.
You’re most welcome! I have always felt that my main role is to care for my child and keep myself well for her. I think that’s your priority as well. I hope things get better!
Evil never dies, remind your husband of that
[deleted]
Whenever my husband tells me she's going to die soon I say or she might live another 10 years or more. No way I'm living another DECADE like this ... never mind 3 decades!
I think there is a good explanation of what an apology should actually be.
I want to address another thing, the reason your mil may think it is you v. your husband is because she raised him to submit. His sudden change is linked to you in her eyes. You need to stay strong and allow your husband to deal with her as your therapist stated.
Another reason you are second guessing yourself is you were raised with the same values: respect your elders, family is everything, etc. These values gave too much power to those who could weaponize them. Don’t allow those outdated values to tie you to people who would abuse you. Your husband is doing good but has a long road ahead. I am in my 50’s and still reminding myself I DESERVE for my family to treat me better. So do you and everyone for that matter.
Give yourself grace and step back for a while. Exercise saying “no” and staying away for a period of time. Rebuild your strength to deal with them. If visiting overnight, try to get a hotel if you can swing it. It gives you a safe space to retreat to when the visits get tough or mil needs a time out.
Remember you are protecting your mental health as well as your families.
One last thing is my kids (all adults) talk about the emotional abuse too. It doesn’t stop at your husband. Kids see and feel the abuse even if not directed at them. My kids are very low contact with my family. That’s who you are doing this for! Stay strong!!
She’s a real bitch through and through, that apology doesn’t actually mean what you hope it does. You keep your distance now, this is about your child and who you surround them with regularly and she is not an energy you want to entertain.
She never needs to be alone with your son and visits can be short and sweet and infrequent. This precious time with your child doesn’t need to feel tainted any further.
Anyway, you’ll be busy doing things with your child and out and about - your life doesn’t revolve around hosting your son out to visitors that disrespect the parents. Your new family unit is a team and you come as a package. She created this situation and actions have consequences.
She will try and make you look like the bad guy if her apology doesn’t go as planned - don’t be afraid of anything like that, you’re doing what’s right for your child.
She will not change. The apology is yet another manipulation tactic to maintain access to your child. I had similar experiences as you with my first post partum period and I still never forget how disrespectful I've been treated, with the criticism, baby hogging, whisking my napping baby away from my bosom. I don't blame you for not believing her apology letter because after all she has done there's no way I'd believe it either.
I'm so sorry you went through that too!
Taking the first step doesn’t mean shit when a MIL is doing the cha-cha-cha. As in doing that same damn step backwards and forwards. Apologizing and actually taking steps forward are not the same thing.
”Thank you for the letter MIL, while it is a step, we hope this isn’t the only one. Only time and changed behaviour can determine whether or not this is actual progress. I hope you have a nice evening”
Is what I would probably write. Short, succinct and polite. However also very directly communicating ”talk is cheap, prove it with your actions”. Because make no mistake, this isn’t even half of an appropriate or genuine apology, to do that she would have had to: state what hurt you, ask forgiveness, and state what steps they will make to never let it happen again”. This was just a ”I said I was sorry!!” To hand out when you sre justifiably upset about something.
Take care and take no shit
It is a difficult truth to admit, but the sooner you do it, the easier it will be. I spent 14 years trying to have the relationship of mutual respect, friendship etc that I wanted with my JNMIL. Unfortunately, she and I have irreconcilable differences and we have passed the point of no return. It took a major blow up argument for me to realize that the situation will never change, but I can. I will no longer permit my JNMIL in my home, I will no longer be in her house as a guest unless it is a max 2 hour lunch, she is no longer permitted access to my children without a parent present, I will no longer be one-on-one with her without a third party present, I will no longer try to explain myself to her or have her get to know me etc. etc.
FOCUS ON YOU! You need to heal from the abuse, gaslighting, trauma and steamrolling. You and your husband need time to repair your relationship. You're still early days postpartum. Your mental and physical health are still tenuous. Give it time. Wait until you are strong and stable to open the door more.
You stated:
"If I'm honest, even if it were a genuine apology, I'm not going to feel better. It will take time, distance, and changed behaviour for me to feel more comfortable around them. And even then, I don't trust her to be alone with my son – I've seen her bite back our toddler niece when she bit her. Our therapists have stressed that my husband should be the one to have boundary setting conversations with them..." This is your truth.
Solidify your needs with your husband, focus on strengthening your marriage and don't let up on getting him to see your pain and his enmeshment. This could potentially destroy your family. It is no small thing. Don't let your desire for community and approval obfuscate what a sick bitch your JNMIL. She is in her 80's she isn't going to change, but you can.
Get rock solid on what you can and cannot accept and let her deal. You HAVE been mutually respectful. She has NOT! What do you require for mutual respect? It sounds like one need that is coming through clearly is the need to be the authority and unequivocal advocate for your baby. Your JNMIL doesn't have a say, and if she keeps getting in the way and inserting herself, soon she won't be permitted around at all. This needs to be communicated and perhaps you can communicate it with your actions instead.
Shut this shit down now, and shut it down fast. She's lucky you and your husband even continue to speak to her.
Thank you so much and I'm so sorry you went through all that. It's a strange thing, this year has been so foggy between the postpartum hormones, the adjustment to parenthood, and the family drama that's opened my eyes to the truth about my husband's family and forced him to re-examine what he has always believed to be a tight-knit family. In my gut I feel I'm not wrong, but there's been so much gaslighting and manipulation that sometimes I doubt myself.
I truly don't care about her approval, or my FIL's or my SIL or BIL or even any of the other family. I do care about being "fair" to my husband. And I can see how that's problematic.
I've said this to my husband a few times that this year was already going to be super hard on us as a couple, adjusting to our new roles as parents, but it's deranged to me that rather than support us through that, this woman has made it all about her. That she has taken up so much space and made an already hard year so much harder - and seemingly revelled in it?
Thanks for the advice, this clarifies a couple of things for me, especially "it sounds like one need that is coming through clearly is the need to be the authority and unequivocal advocate for your baby."
It is very common to still want to honour your husband and his relationships to his family of origin...
However, I ask you, what has the price been that you have paid in this past year and half of being steamrolled, gaslit, ignored, and manipulated?
What are your true, deep feelings about JNMIL?
How can you set yourself up for success? What does the "new" way forward look like with your in-laws and husband?
For me, as I mentioned, I have now set some strict boundaries with my JNMIL. I haven't communicated those to her, as I'm low contact. It's just how I behave, and my husband is on board. No access to my kids, unsupervised. I will not stay at their house. We only visit every second year. My JNMIL's opinion on our parenting is a hard no. She has no opinion or right to comment. It is an immediate shutdown. She can not drive my kids in the car. Husband has to drive. Etc.
I think you've been in such a vulnerable state you may not actually have access to your full feelings on the matter. However, your anger and feelings are valid. Own them and speak them clearly with your spouse.
Hope this helps.
Thank you, these are great questions. I'll do some reflecting and write some thoughts down.
My pleasure 🙏 I hope it is helpful... your feelings matter. You are the most important person in your life and in your baby's life. It sounds like you and your husband dearly love and care for each other. If this is the case, then it's absolutely worth doing the hard thing of being brutally honest. In a sick family dynamic, often the one who puts a stop to things is scapegoated... but your allegiance is to your little family. You and your husband are building. One of the wonderful aspects of becoming a parent is it helps us to clarify our values and priorities.
Totally agree. I forgot to add in my comment, never trust a baby biter. Even if I didn't see someone bite my kid, if I saw them bite another kid that would be enough to ban them from holding my kid again. This bitch would already be restricted to looking at my kid from no less than four feet away.
Isn't it awful? My SIL witnessed it and didn't even step in until she'd done it twice. She also reprimanded her toddler for saying she didn't want MIL to give her a bath. Not how I plan to parent!
My oldest will be 10 in Jan and I’m still not over how I was treated postpartum with him. When our second was born I made sure DH was home to deal with them and when they moved to town we didn’t have a third. You don’t have to accept her apology and you don’t have to move forward. I fully unloaded on my MIL in October 2024 and she thinks we are fine now, that she doesn’t have to change😳🤪 she literally said “we’re good” and I laughed in her face and I said never. I called my mom and she was appalled (the final blow was they didn’t lock up their guns for 8mo and my children had access to them). She thought that and 9+ years of her being a b were just water under the bridge. Protect your peace. You are so strong!!!!
That 'apology' is only ornamental. The proof of the pudding is a (massive) change in her behaviour.
MIL doesn't want to apologize, she wants to rugsweep. Apologies include six distinct elements:
MIL has done none of these.
"As much as I want my son to have a relationship with them"- Why? They offer nothing to benefit you and are poor rôle models for your child. Drop the rope, and take a good, long, complete break from them. Keep up the marriage counseling, and maybe consider some for yourself to sort out your options for any future contact with them.
Thank you, we're seeing the couples therapist and then I'm seeing a therapist individually and so is my husband.
I had seen reports that having good relationships with grandparents is beneficial for children but come to think of it, "good" is the operative word there. My husband isn't at a point where NC is an option, but I'm working on getting him onboard with the idea of not staying with them when we visit next. I appreciate your insight!
I think it is just a tactic, as she knows it's her, because her son said it's her, so in her eyes, she apologizes, and then you all move on, and she can waltz right back in, and all is 'well' again.
What I would do? Thank her for the apology. It's nice to know she knows her actions and attitude were wrong. However... that doesn't mean you automatically want to let her back in. Her actions made you not like her... at all. She was disrespectful, and she made your life harder, without any care about your feelings, untill it got in between her and what she wants. That's not something you can just forgive and forget.
She will have to try very hard, to get you to like her again, to want to spend any time with her. Pushing and rushing this apology, and demanding a clearing of the air, without any regards to your feelings - AGAIN - goes directly against that.
If you want to resolve this - and quite frankly, just to save yourself the frustration of her trying everything she can think of, because she sucks at it - just give her a list of things you DO want her to do, in the future.
You're never going to have a genuine relationship with her, you know it, she knows it, I know it. So, make it more comfortable for yourself, and tell her what part she needs to play. She's to take a back seat in interactions with your child. You say something in regards to your child, she is to respect it, and keep her negative thoughts about what you say to herself. She is not to pick up your child without your blessing/approval, and she is not to take your child out of your line of sight.
But above all, she is to give your nuclear family space. She can invite, she can take initiative, but it is up to you to accept, or decline, or give other options.
And for now, you still feel rushed and pushed, and thus not respected, and you need x amount of time.
There is a line in your post that I think perfectly describes what you need to move forward, time, distance and a change in behavior.
And I think that’s what your husband needs to communicate to his parents. Months of bad behavior does not immediately get erased by one apology.
Send her the Daniel Tiger video about the first step being a sorry, then there needs to be actions to back it up!
I understand that you want a village... but you also can choose which village you join. Maybe instead of asking if you should forgive your MIL for your sake or your husband's sake, you should decide whether you should forgive her on behalf of your child. Maybe that would help you decide how to proceed.
Just because someone apologizes that doesn't mean you have to be cool with them right away. Even if it's a genuine apology and you forgive them in your heart - you can still take time to decompress! She wore out her welcome and now you need recovery time.
Husband should tell them "thank you for the letter; we'll let you know when we're ready to visit again. We need a break to enjoy our nuclear family for a bit." She needs to understand that more apologies isn't going to get faster access and it's probably going to backfire.
Much like yourself I do not believe this is a genuine apology. I think it is what they believe they need to do in order to get access to your son. Even if the apology is sincere, she needs to change the way she acts and speaks and consistently do better for a long period of time. I don’t blame you for not wanting her alone with your son
Sometimes “sorry” doesn’t cut it. Actions do speak louder than words; and JNMIL has truly truly shown everybody who she is.
Husband should tell her that you all need a break from them. Her reaction will tell you both if she is truly sorry or just saying the words to continue getting what she wants
She’s not sorry for her behavior, she’s trying to placate you so she can have the access she wants.
Heavy on husband needing to lead these conversations and set the boundaries with his mom. I know it sucks to feel like the problem, but your family is you, your husband and children and at the end of the day he married you, not his mom. Sincerely hope it gets better for you.
She made her bed but she doesn't want to lie in it. That's her problem, not yours. She is experiencing consequences, possibly for the first time. This is good. These consequences were well-earned.
She has not changed. She expects that she can treat you like shit and still get everything she wants, and when she gets pushback from you, she expects that if she apologizes everything will be "forgiven" and she can go back to treating you like shit and get everything she wants.
This is evident in her continuing to push for contact and be overbearing. If she was really sorry for her behavior she would back TF off. But she hasn't done that, has she?
My advice would be to continue to work with your therapist (who appears to be doing a great job) and to distance yourself further from your in-laws. Talk to your therapist about removing all of them from social media and blocking them on your phone so that you can have time to heal from the 16 months of abuse you endured. You do not have to put a time limit on this period of blocking for yourself (your DH can make his own decisions on what level of contact he wants along with your therapist). You do not owe her a time limit. You do not owe her anything. She abused you. Now she doesn't have access to you. Actions have consequences.
You need to put MIL on an info diet and a time out. All contact goes through your husband. You need at least a 3 month break. No more visiting them. No more holidays. Nothing