Well to be fair, I don’t think that the Radiance was sealed with the intention of being weakened but rather so she couldn’t manifest in dreams. So weakening her by trapping her within the hollow knight might’ve been a side effect. GMS on the other hand was put to sleep by using the citadel which meant that it was intended to directly suppress her power.
Radiance could also just be a lot stronger than GMS but this is what I think.
Regardless, Radiance was put behind larger seals. Inside THK (who’s also surrounded by a seal), who’s filled with void. Inside the Black Egg, that drains anything that isn’t a vessel, and that Egg is in-turn sealed by the Dreamers. And she still broke out.
That’s a lot of seals compared to the song keeping GMS sleeping. (And I don’t think there’s anything directly stating she’s been weakened)
My interpretation of the Radiance’s layers of containment was it being that way due to the nature of the dream realm. The Hollow Knight was meant to be the main key whereas everything else seemed like layers of security so that a non-vessel couldn’t get in the temple.
The Radiance already had an immediate advantage by existing in a different dimension, so Hallownest’s means of countering her was very limited (I believe Dung Defender has dialogue about this or smth). GMS existing in the physical realm meant that she’d be a lot easier to bring down in comparison.
Radiance was not weakened, she was just sealed and any weakening would be gone because she already infected all of hallownest and the hive and deepnest
And by that logic, GMS wouldn’t have been weakened either, cause she’s been haunting Pharloom, sending out capture missions, and is at least somewhat aware of what’s going on outside her Cocoon.
Either way, we objectively know the Radiance was weakened due to the existence of Absolute Radiance.
Edit: I’d also like to add that the WL says that eventually everyone and everything will be taken by the infection if we don’t stop her, so her power was definitely subsumed
absolute radiance is just an upgraded form like the ascended and radiance versions of the other bosses all because of the godseeker's faith in them, that's also the reason why the knight becomes the shade lord because the godseeker slowly realize that the knight is stronger and worthy of the title of a higher being
I don’t think so, similarly Pure Vessel isn’t just an “upgraded form”, it’s them in their prime, it should be the same for the Radiance, who’s stated go be in “perfect state” in her Absolute Form
Their description states them as a “Chosen vessel, raised and trained to prime form”, while the Godseeker states that “Though its worldly body be bound and defiled, the glory of its pure form endures”
Godseeker seemingly didn’t even want to attune to the Pure Vessel at first (apparently due to fear), so it’s not something created through worship. (They mostly want the Radiance inside the Hollow Knight, not the Vessel itself)
It does imply that the Pure Vessel was real at some point
Edit: the description is also different from the White Defender and Grey Prince Zote, which are both figures made from memories or imagination
The WD is a “Figure from a fondly remembered past”, meanwhile GPZ is a “Figment of an obsessed mind”
Comparatively, PV is just said to be a vessel raised to prime form, not a figment or anything
And by that logic, GMS wouldn’t have been weakened either, cause she’s been haunting Pharloom, sending out capture missions, and is at least somewhat aware of what’s going on outside her Cocoon.
Not really. Radiance directly drew strength from worship/the infection. GMS draws strength from her silk. By the time the knight fights her, Radiance is probably stronger than when she was worshipped by the moth tribe. GMS on the other hand expedited her awakening to fight Hornet and her Silk would be spread all over pharloom, so there would be less to use.
Do we know if she drew strength from it? Or just desired it?
Either way, Absolute Radiance is probably what the Radiance was in her prime
Edit: If Radiance draws strength from worship, then GMS would be the same, and she also has almost the entire kingdom haunted. So she’d also be stronger than before her sealing. Along with the fact we know she’s been absorbing power from weaver spawn
The Moth tribe's method of sealing the Radiance away was literally just stop worshipping her, no actual magical bindings or anything like that. She stopped being a problem until she started invading bugs' dreams long after the founding of hallow nest. Seeing as she didn't retaliate for a really long time, it's safe to assume she had to gather her strength before she could.
I think it’s more implied that she was able to retaliate due to the lingering memories of her. But I still don’t think she’s regained all her power by the time we fight her, due to her still being sealed. And Absolute Radiance is that prime version
Via the infection. She basically forced every bug infected to dream of her. When a bug is first infected, they don't immediately turn into zombies, instead they slowly being to hear and dream of the Radiance.
Like with Myla. She heard the Radiance and thought the crystals were talking to her. Her dream nail dialog changes over time. After you kill Soul master, her dream nail dialog changes to:
"... how much longer... KILL IT... how much longer... DANGEROUS... how much longer... KILL IT... how much longer... KILL THE EMPTY ONE..."
The Radiance is forcing everyone to know of her so she will never be forgotten again.
if i remember correctly, she nearly died so she has to use the infection. But also i thought her main source of power is from worshipping so just being recognized is probably not enough to make her more powerful than her prime
She is being worshipped through the infection. You have beings like the Moss Prophet and Mantis traitors who directly submit to her, and even common infected kinda worships her to a lesser extent. If you dream nail the infected, they almost always mention the light in some way or form. Even if it isn't as potent as proper worship, the sheer quantity of infected would out number the moth tribe a dozen times over.
The original plan was to make her overpower hornet and absob her if you wake up without ringing all the five Shrine Bells (that would weaken her).
TC probably decided to do away with that since these shrines are in the way and made the shrines mandatory, but it removes the only W that GMS would have gotten in the game.
The seals used by the weavers weaken those sealed as shown with Hornet, besides Radiance is a dream being that draws strength if people pray to them and Radiance is already controlling like 90% of hallownest
Radiance is still trapped inside THK, The Black Egg (designed to drain anything but vessels) and by the Dreamers. If she wasn’t weakened then the bindings wouldn’t matter
We only see a small taste of what the Radiance’s unstopped rule will look like, imagine the infected crossroads but everywhere essentially
Edit: and she would eventually break out on her own
“The first is inevitable on current course, regression, all minds relinquished to that pernicious plague.”
“Were the Vessel to break prematurely, that plague would unleash with rage and power built of ages chained.”
The only seal in there that could affect Radiance itself is THK because it was meant to cut its connection to the outside world so it can't infect anyone, Radiance is inside THK in a dream world so the black egg can't affect it and the dreamers are there so no one enters the egg and destroys THK or THK doesn't escape in case Radiance infects it
My cousin Tim Henry told me that's wrong and that the seal keeping the door shut weakens with each dreamer awake, think of it as a plastic bag with water, each dreamer waking up pokes a hole into the bag and water starts leaking
I understand, but you can just make her easier/harder depending on the crest the user has entering the fight, you don't have to make the overall fight a bore just because some players will use a random obscure crest locked behind a whole questline.
Thats honestly what lost lace felt like, after i took a break. Seriously, if youre struggling on a boss, take a break and try again next day. Helped me beat most bosses, relatively easily (including: crsut king khann (gauntlet), lost lace, karmelita, second sentinel, lace 2, phantom and savage beast fly 2)
Miss “Come Child, Witness Our Waking” when said child actually shows up
https://preview.redd.it/we6embpx689g1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f60aa1a73dae31c3df6d4f149d118d452151d03
She was still a little bit eepy, the DLC will SURELY give her some coffee ☕️🔥
Finally, absolutely caffeinated grand mother silk
She sits in a monster can that acts as a shield
Caffeine makes spiders sluggish
Flea brewed GMS is the way
Radiance was also weakened and sealed but that didn’t stop her from having one of the most climatic and hardest battles ingame
What’s GMS’s excuse?
Well to be fair, I don’t think that the Radiance was sealed with the intention of being weakened but rather so she couldn’t manifest in dreams. So weakening her by trapping her within the hollow knight might’ve been a side effect. GMS on the other hand was put to sleep by using the citadel which meant that it was intended to directly suppress her power.
Radiance could also just be a lot stronger than GMS but this is what I think.
Regardless, Radiance was put behind larger seals. Inside THK (who’s also surrounded by a seal), who’s filled with void. Inside the Black Egg, that drains anything that isn’t a vessel, and that Egg is in-turn sealed by the Dreamers. And she still broke out.
That’s a lot of seals compared to the song keeping GMS sleeping. (And I don’t think there’s anything directly stating she’s been weakened)
My interpretation of the Radiance’s layers of containment was it being that way due to the nature of the dream realm. The Hollow Knight was meant to be the main key whereas everything else seemed like layers of security so that a non-vessel couldn’t get in the temple.
The Radiance already had an immediate advantage by existing in a different dimension, so Hallownest’s means of countering her was very limited (I believe Dung Defender has dialogue about this or smth). GMS existing in the physical realm meant that she’d be a lot easier to bring down in comparison.
Radiance was not weakened, she was just sealed and any weakening would be gone because she already infected all of hallownest and the hive and deepnest
And by that logic, GMS wouldn’t have been weakened either, cause she’s been haunting Pharloom, sending out capture missions, and is at least somewhat aware of what’s going on outside her Cocoon.
Either way, we objectively know the Radiance was weakened due to the existence of Absolute Radiance.
Edit: I’d also like to add that the WL says that eventually everyone and everything will be taken by the infection if we don’t stop her, so her power was definitely subsumed
absolute radiance is just an upgraded form like the ascended and radiance versions of the other bosses all because of the godseeker's faith in them, that's also the reason why the knight becomes the shade lord because the godseeker slowly realize that the knight is stronger and worthy of the title of a higher being
I don’t think so, similarly Pure Vessel isn’t just an “upgraded form”, it’s them in their prime, it should be the same for the Radiance, who’s stated go be in “perfect state” in her Absolute Form
How do we know pure vessel was them in their prime and not just a dream reflection of them?
Their description states them as a “Chosen vessel, raised and trained to prime form”, while the Godseeker states that “Though its worldly body be bound and defiled, the glory of its pure form endures”
Godseeker seemingly didn’t even want to attune to the Pure Vessel at first (apparently due to fear), so it’s not something created through worship. (They mostly want the Radiance inside the Hollow Knight, not the Vessel itself)
It does imply that the Pure Vessel was real at some point
Edit: the description is also different from the White Defender and Grey Prince Zote, which are both figures made from memories or imagination
The WD is a “Figure from a fondly remembered past”, meanwhile GPZ is a “Figment of an obsessed mind”
Comparatively, PV is just said to be a vessel raised to prime form, not a figment or anything
Not really. Radiance directly drew strength from worship/the infection. GMS draws strength from her silk. By the time the knight fights her, Radiance is probably stronger than when she was worshipped by the moth tribe. GMS on the other hand expedited her awakening to fight Hornet and her Silk would be spread all over pharloom, so there would be less to use.
Do we know if she drew strength from it? Or just desired it?
Either way, Absolute Radiance is probably what the Radiance was in her prime
Edit: If Radiance draws strength from worship, then GMS would be the same, and she also has almost the entire kingdom haunted. So she’d also be stronger than before her sealing. Along with the fact we know she’s been absorbing power from weaver spawn
The Moth tribe's method of sealing the Radiance away was literally just stop worshipping her, no actual magical bindings or anything like that. She stopped being a problem until she started invading bugs' dreams long after the founding of hallow nest. Seeing as she didn't retaliate for a really long time, it's safe to assume she had to gather her strength before she could.
I think it’s more implied that she was able to retaliate due to the lingering memories of her. But I still don’t think she’s regained all her power by the time we fight her, due to her still being sealed. And Absolute Radiance is that prime version
i though she was forgotten so how can she became more powerful when facing the knight?
Via the infection. She basically forced every bug infected to dream of her. When a bug is first infected, they don't immediately turn into zombies, instead they slowly being to hear and dream of the Radiance.
Like with Myla. She heard the Radiance and thought the crystals were talking to her. Her dream nail dialog changes over time. After you kill Soul master, her dream nail dialog changes to:
"... how much longer... KILL IT... how much longer... DANGEROUS... how much longer... KILL IT... how much longer... KILL THE EMPTY ONE..."
The Radiance is forcing everyone to know of her so she will never be forgotten again.
if i remember correctly, she nearly died so she has to use the infection. But also i thought her main source of power is from worshipping so just being recognized is probably not enough to make her more powerful than her prime
She is being worshipped through the infection. You have beings like the Moss Prophet and Mantis traitors who directly submit to her, and even common infected kinda worships her to a lesser extent. If you dream nail the infected, they almost always mention the light in some way or form. Even if it isn't as potent as proper worship, the sheer quantity of infected would out number the moth tribe a dozen times over.
The original plan was to make her overpower hornet and absob her if you wake up without ringing all the five Shrine Bells (that would weaken her).
TC probably decided to do away with that since these shrines are in the way and made the shrines mandatory, but it removes the only W that GMS would have gotten in the game.
The seals used by the weavers weaken those sealed as shown with Hornet, besides Radiance is a dream being that draws strength if people pray to them and Radiance is already controlling like 90% of hallownest
Radiance is still trapped inside THK, The Black Egg (designed to drain anything but vessels) and by the Dreamers. If she wasn’t weakened then the bindings wouldn’t matter
We only see a small taste of what the Radiance’s unstopped rule will look like, imagine the infected crossroads but everywhere essentially
Edit: and she would eventually break out on her own
“The first is inevitable on current course, regression, all minds relinquished to that pernicious plague.”
“Were the Vessel to break prematurely, that plague would unleash with rage and power built of ages chained.”
The only seal in there that could affect Radiance itself is THK because it was meant to cut its connection to the outside world so it can't infect anyone, Radiance is inside THK in a dream world so the black egg can't affect it and the dreamers are there so no one enters the egg and destroys THK or THK doesn't escape in case Radiance infects it
The Dreamers do affect the Radiance tho, we see infection leak out whenever one is removed, which means they were helping hold it in
My cousin Tim Henry told me that's wrong and that the seal keeping the door shut weakens with each dreamer awake, think of it as a plastic bag with water, each dreamer waking up pokes a hole into the bag and water starts leaking
This applied to the hollow knight too when I first played the game tbf.
HK isn't a Pale Being thoHe do, even more
yes they are, + some other shit scientists don't even know the implications of (void)
you're right, he's probably something even weirder lmao
They probably are. Hornet is one, and THK is a child of two pale beings
Hornet is a demi-Pale
As for HK, you're right, he's probably something even weirder lmao
HK is the dead child of two pale beings animated by eldritch goo
Brother how they are the child of two pale beings
If both ur parents are gods you also become a god
You're right, I forgot he's not the same as Hornet
Yeah, she's meant to be beatable with cursed crest, so they made her weak, more comparable to the Hollow Knight than the Radiance
could just make the curse child binds her after first phase, imo
I understand, but you can just make her easier/harder depending on the crest the user has entering the fight, you don't have to make the overall fight a bore just because some players will use a random obscure crest locked behind a whole questline.
Not even the cursed crest made her difficult ngl💔
Tfw mommy silk is easier than lace 2
https://preview.redd.it/oqnswdhqi89g1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a51f9f2f2e08415108394cc361b61940ac81f834
I mean, it make sense - she was asleep for a long time :3
Only semi asleep really, she’s still aware enough to arrange capture missions and potentially even sense the plans of the Snail Shamans
Thats honestly what lost lace felt like, after i took a break. Seriously, if youre struggling on a boss, take a break and try again next day. Helped me beat most bosses, relatively easily (including: crsut king khann (gauntlet), lost lace, karmelita, second sentinel, lace 2, phantom and savage beast fly 2)
I beat in two tries dawg ✌️😭 it took me longer to beat signas and gron
I accidentally used a tad’ bit of tools (spammed purple Cogfly, Weavelight+Wispfire lantern) and beat Lace & GMS before learning their move set
Pretty much my reaction to most ACT 3 bosses