Yesh music? No. Skong doesn't have a single filler or weaker song (except purified ducts) i genuinely think that there was a bit of bias for some nominations on E33's name.
Debut indie game? Indie game? Isn't half the team industry veterans?
CEO of the company for E33 also has multiple million dollar companies and connections to big companies like Kepler and Bandai which helped with the game too.
Can we also talk about the fact the game got celebrity voice actors?
The game has a publisher that paid 2 of the best Hollywood actors to be in the game. Was partly financed by the french government and was made with an 8 figure budget. But sure Geoff, it's Indie.
The lead dev team was made up of an ex Ubisoft employee and then a bunch of random people he found online, many of which had zero experience in the game industry
Imo Hades 2 has better art direction but I'm just upset that UE5 assets the game won art direction.
Soundtrack I get, it has 5 god tier tracks and people ignore the rest being slightly above mid tier, but Silksong and Hades 2 both very clearly are leagues above it consistency wise and Mario Kart World might genuinely have the greatest OST OAT and wasn't even nominated.
Mario Kart got a bad break because it is using renditions of classic songs from classic games.
Its definitely the most impressive from a musical perspective some of the tracks on there and the sheer amount of them that are brand new recordings, but at the end of the day E33 has songs charting on Spotify and its music is a fundamental part of the game and its themes, while Mario Kart’s music is just a supplement.
Ost? Nah. That was the one category that e33 practically HAD to win. Art direction I agree. E33 is beautiful, but hades 2 and silksong are two of the best looking things I've ever seen in my entire fucking life
Personally I think Hades 2 should've won music even though I like Silksong's more.
While E33's music is like, people love romanticizing the "ooh the composer was just a nobody" aspect but it shows. It sounds very derivative from that of the Nier games, which was first published in the early 2010s, with lots of vocal-over-instrumental tracks. The tracks are still good, because they were derived from a good precedent, but it's nothing groundbreaking.
You’re saying that art should go to E33 but music should have gone to Skong? I’m the absolute oppositie opinion haha. Art direction I believe could have gone to Skong or Hades2, but also E33 was deserving. Music was never a competition with E33. The OST for E33 should have been nominated for a Grammy. But everyone has their own opinion which the GOTY really is a personal preference in the end.
Nah I'm saying E33 deserves both Art and Music.
1) Art: The game thematic is shown throughout the game. The game heavily goes in Claire Obscure which I really like. Silksong has good art but it is no competition to E33
2) Music: Like I said Silksong is the most forgettable music in my opinion. Everything sounds so samesy, nothing memorable like Alicia, Lumire, A life to Love / Paint, the Overworld, etc.
Oh gotcha! Shows you how good of a reader I am haha. Thanks for clarifying! :) I am in total agreement with you. Skong’s soundtrack was actually more of a disappointment to me because I didn’t walk away humming songs all the time. Hollow Knight’s soundtrack I have songs popping up in my head all the time. But EX33 soundtrack even trumps OG Hollow Knight for me as I would say EX33 is a top 3 soundtrack for me now.
Nah it's aight, it was barely readble tbh. I edited for more readibility (doubt anyone would see it cause I am heavily criticize Silksong in Hollow Knight community lmao). As for music I agree, Silksong music was a massive disappointment, nowhere near as good OG HK. And both loses to E33 yeah lmao
And I would say - art was the only thing (and I guess indie game) people could make an argument for Skong and Hades 2 but I do think those games piggy back off of their original games which hinders them unfortunately. EX33 art is newly inspired with deep themes.
As someone who loves E33, it being in the indie sections felt odd given how much funding it had. Would’ve gone for Silksong and debut to dispatch probably
tbf silksong also had a lot of funding. what it didn't have is 50 people working on it, formed from a coalition of 7 different studios. while whether something is indie or not tends to be subjective, this seems firmly in AA range imo.
And even then, EC33 likely had somewhere between 5-10x the budget with wealthy sponsors, while Team Cherry paid out of pocket with earnings from the first game
Sadly at this point if it’s any game that isn’t published by a specific list of big brand publishers, it’s considered indie by these people. Even games published by Devolver Digital or Annapurna end up having the term indie tossed around in conversations.
I don’t know how anyone is surprised tbh, E33 was the overwhelming favorite and the only real competitor it had was a 2d indie game(Hades 2 and silksong) and as far as I can remember, 2d indie games have never been getting any recognition from these awards ever…
Was nominated but didn’t win. That was the year tlou2 won lol I only remember because I was so hyped to see hades at the game awards while everyone was arguing about tlou2
Expedition 33 is a worthy GOTY winner, haven't played it but I've seen 99% of people praising it A LOT so I'm not surprised especially after the legendary run they had winning in like 8 different categories
My only complaint is its inclusion in the indie category. Its budget is nearly 8 figures which I don't really think fits the whole "indie" idea, indie studios don't have several million dollars to make their first game unless they're backed by bigger (non-indie) studios
Considering that they won nearly every single award that they were nominated for, not including them in the indie category would still have them walking away with more statuettes than they can carry and us HK fans would be a tiny bit happier
They have the budget for Silksong based on the success of Hollow Knight.
E33 is their first game. The fact that it even had $10 million to start with, plus over 30 employees and more contract workers, it just doesn’fit what we normal would call an indie.
Baldurs Gate 3 should have won best indie by this logic.
Several million COULD have been used but again, that's their second game and they made HK purely using their own time and money and help from kickstarter backers. It doesn't take away from the "indie-ness" if the money they used for the second game is directly from the first game which was an indie game. They also don't have any corporate backers (which I assume E33 has, considering the huge budget)
I don’t think it passed a million, Hollow Knight was made with a budget of 52k USD. As good as Silksong is, I can’t see the team using more than 1 million to create a similar game.
Even if we only count the three core devs, and assume they only paid themselves a salary of 50k a year, with 7 years of development, even that would result in slighty above a million.
Realistically there were more people involved, and the salaries almost certainly were much higher.
It'd tricky to put a number on it because William and Ari are the owners and can kinda just dip into Hollow Knight money if they want. If they each buy a $2M house each during Silksong's development does that suddenly mean the budget is $4M because they used Hollow Knight money?
However if you do assume they pay themselves a salary of say $100k, for 7 years and 3 members that's $2.1M, then add rent and whatever they pay Chris/Leth and other contractors.
Well, if I wanted a bunch of people I don't know with opinions I don't care about to tell me I'm playing the wrong game, then I wouldn't have deleted my Twitter account
Silksong was a strong competitor for both Best Art Direction and Best Soundtrack, but I guess they just wanted E33 to have two wins over TLOU P2?
But again, it's not because the criteria are half-skewered towards "showing recognition to the most impactful game of 2025" that E33 was any less deserving, including on those two categories that Silksong honestly could be considered in pair or maybe better.
That is to say, E33 is a indeed pretty game and its soundtrack is absolutely fantastic, period.
Yeah, I am of the same opinion. But E33 does sit in a weird spot with the studio being indie (it's just the game in particular that received considerable funding).
I’ve been reading the funding was under $10M I think? I’m just curious is that considered a huge amount to where it’s no longer indie level? Just curious as this is the hot debate of EX33 not being considered indie. Not sure what to think personally.
I'm happy for the e33 crew they did make something fantastic, i adore both games. but yeah. The more i play of skong the more i realize it's all i hoped for. Was really hoping they'd spit awards 50/50 ish hell other games deserved some too. i think the only thing I wouldn't have voted silksong for was soundtrack, it was close, but unfortunately lorien did absolutely kill it.
The fact they lost art and music upsets me because what do you mean
Yesh music? No. Skong doesn't have a single filler or weaker song (except purified ducts) i genuinely think that there was a bit of bias for some nominations on E33's name. Debut indie game? Indie game? Isn't half the team industry veterans?
No, only a few of them are industry vets the rest are juniors with Expedition 33 being their first game.
And they have a publisher
CEO of the company for E33 also has multiple million dollar companies and connections to big companies like Kepler and Bandai which helped with the game too.
Can we also talk about the fact the game got celebrity voice actors?
In what world is this team of 40+ people indie?
Game literally has Charlie Cox as one of its main leads btwThe game has a publisher that paid 2 of the best Hollywood actors to be in the game. Was partly financed by the french government and was made with an 8 figure budget. But sure Geoff, it's Indie.
E33 didnt reasonably price their game >v0 I feel like some of the glaze came from that :)
The lead dev team was made up of an ex Ubisoft employee and then a bunch of random people he found online, many of which had zero experience in the game industry
Imo Hades 2 has better art direction but I'm just upset that UE5 assets the game won art direction.
Soundtrack I get, it has 5 god tier tracks and people ignore the rest being slightly above mid tier, but Silksong and Hades 2 both very clearly are leagues above it consistency wise and Mario Kart World might genuinely have the greatest OST OAT and wasn't even nominated.
Mario Kart got a bad break because it is using renditions of classic songs from classic games.
Its definitely the most impressive from a musical perspective some of the tracks on there and the sheer amount of them that are brand new recordings, but at the end of the day E33 has songs charting on Spotify and its music is a fundamental part of the game and its themes, while Mario Kart’s music is just a supplement.
E33 was the clear winner for music but I agree on art direction. Silksong was robbed on that.
You could debate Hades, but Silksong not really, for music i mean
Ost? Nah. That was the one category that e33 practically HAD to win. Art direction I agree. E33 is beautiful, but hades 2 and silksong are two of the best looking things I've ever seen in my entire fucking life
Death Stranding to me had a good shot as well.
I mean, the soundtrack part is completely understandable. E33's OST is otherworldly
Personally I think Hades 2 should've won music even though I like Silksong's more.
While E33's music is like, people love romanticizing the "ooh the composer was just a nobody" aspect but it shows. It sounds very derivative from that of the Nier games, which was first published in the early 2010s, with lots of vocal-over-instrumental tracks. The tracks are still good, because they were derived from a good precedent, but it's nothing groundbreaking.
e33 is better in that regard imo
You know you can literally go on Artstation and see the art blast they did where it shows that it was mostly original art and the assets they made... and the ones they did get from the marketplace were either place holders or small stuff to fill some rooms.... https://magazine.artstation.com/2025/05/sandfall-interactive-clair-obscur-expedition-33-art-blast/
lol, ya'll will just say anything.
Do you even know what an asset flip is?
well i enjoyed the art direction more than in skong it never really gave me any wow moment
Art is good but nowhere near as good as E33, but music? I genuinely don't get it, Silksong music is so forgettable to me. Guess matter of taste
You’re saying that art should go to E33 but music should have gone to Skong? I’m the absolute oppositie opinion haha. Art direction I believe could have gone to Skong or Hades2, but also E33 was deserving. Music was never a competition with E33. The OST for E33 should have been nominated for a Grammy. But everyone has their own opinion which the GOTY really is a personal preference in the end.
Nah I'm saying E33 deserves both Art and Music. 1) Art: The game thematic is shown throughout the game. The game heavily goes in Claire Obscure which I really like. Silksong has good art but it is no competition to E33 2) Music: Like I said Silksong is the most forgettable music in my opinion. Everything sounds so samesy, nothing memorable like Alicia, Lumire, A life to Love / Paint, the Overworld, etc.
Oh gotcha! Shows you how good of a reader I am haha. Thanks for clarifying! :) I am in total agreement with you. Skong’s soundtrack was actually more of a disappointment to me because I didn’t walk away humming songs all the time. Hollow Knight’s soundtrack I have songs popping up in my head all the time. But EX33 soundtrack even trumps OG Hollow Knight for me as I would say EX33 is a top 3 soundtrack for me now.
Nah it's aight, it was barely readble tbh. I edited for more readibility (doubt anyone would see it cause I am heavily criticize Silksong in Hollow Knight community lmao). As for music I agree, Silksong music was a massive disappointment, nowhere near as good OG HK. And both loses to E33 yeah lmao
And I would say - art was the only thing (and I guess indie game) people could make an argument for Skong and Hades 2 but I do think those games piggy back off of their original games which hinders them unfortunately. EX33 art is newly inspired with deep themes.
Not GOTY, fine. They like AA games more.
Not best Indie???
Whyyy ;-;
They like AA games more.
As someone who loves E33, it being in the indie sections felt odd given how much funding it had. Would’ve gone for Silksong and debut to dispatch probably
tbf silksong also had a lot of funding. what it didn't have is 50 people working on it, formed from a coalition of 7 different studios. while whether something is indie or not tends to be subjective, this seems firmly in AA range imo.
And even then, EC33 likely had somewhere between 5-10x the budget with wealthy sponsors, while Team Cherry paid out of pocket with earnings from the first game
Sadly at this point if it’s any game that isn’t published by a specific list of big brand publishers, it’s considered indie by these people. Even games published by Devolver Digital or Annapurna end up having the term indie tossed around in conversations.
I don’t know how anyone is surprised tbh, E33 was the overwhelming favorite and the only real competitor it had was a 2d indie game(Hades 2 and silksong) and as far as I can remember, 2d indie games have never been getting any recognition from these awards ever…
Hades won GOTY, didn't it? But overwhelmingly, 3D games have won it.
It did not, but I think it should have definitely won in 2020
Ah, I think Hades won GOTY for a couple of the other awards shows, then.
I have looked it up. It won Dice, Bafta, Hugo, and SXSW. Pretty good haul, just not in the ceremony we're talking about here.
That was the Final Fantasy 7 and TLOU2 year. While I think it was amazing, there was no way it was gonna win that.
Was nominated but didn’t win. That was the year tlou2 won lol I only remember because I was so hyped to see hades at the game awards while everyone was arguing about tlou2
Last of Us 2 won that year.
Hades 2 deserve only "very negative" on steam
L ragebait
There's also KCD2
IT SHOULDVE WIN ART
Poor Hornet was robbed of most awards
Like I’m a e33 fan and I respect the sw33p but I do wish skong had won more.
Expedition 33 is a worthy GOTY winner, haven't played it but I've seen 99% of people praising it A LOT so I'm not surprised especially after the legendary run they had winning in like 8 different categories
My only complaint is its inclusion in the indie category. Its budget is nearly 8 figures which I don't really think fits the whole "indie" idea, indie studios don't have several million dollars to make their first game unless they're backed by bigger (non-indie) studios
Considering that they won nearly every single award that they were nominated for, not including them in the indie category would still have them walking away with more statuettes than they can carry and us HK fans would be a tiny bit happier
One very curious what Silksong’s final budget was. I assume it surpassed million, but maybe not?
They have the budget for Silksong based on the success of Hollow Knight.
E33 is their first game. The fact that it even had $10 million to start with, plus over 30 employees and more contract workers, it just doesn’fit what we normal would call an indie.
Baldurs Gate 3 should have won best indie by this logic.
Several million COULD have been used but again, that's their second game and they made HK purely using their own time and money and help from kickstarter backers. It doesn't take away from the "indie-ness" if the money they used for the second game is directly from the first game which was an indie game. They also don't have any corporate backers (which I assume E33 has, considering the huge budget)
I don’t think it passed a million, Hollow Knight was made with a budget of 52k USD. As good as Silksong is, I can’t see the team using more than 1 million to create a similar game.
Even if we only count the three core devs, and assume they only paid themselves a salary of 50k a year, with 7 years of development, even that would result in slighty above a million.
Realistically there were more people involved, and the salaries almost certainly were much higher.
It'd tricky to put a number on it because William and Ari are the owners and can kinda just dip into Hollow Knight money if they want. If they each buy a $2M house each during Silksong's development does that suddenly mean the budget is $4M because they used Hollow Knight money?
However if you do assume they pay themselves a salary of say $100k, for 7 years and 3 members that's $2.1M, then add rent and whatever they pay Chris/Leth and other contractors.
Poor hornet..
I love hornet's awards night dress :)
I now wonder if the artist has a version where they won on standby
Whogives a shit, skong was my GOTY, that’s what matters to me 💙. Congratulations to E33 for making a great game.
Well, if I wanted a bunch of people I don't know with opinions I don't care about to tell me I'm playing the wrong game, then I wouldn't have deleted my Twitter account
TRUE
Absolutely 100% rigged in favor of the game that didnt shake up the industry by setting their game at $20 and sticking to their own creative vision :p
if you seriously think skong had any chance of winning goty you need help
It's not about goty, it's about the best "Indie" game am most upset about. Art too Hades and skong had more unique and better artstyles.
Most of the awards felt like they were given without any thought behind them.
Glazepedition 33 much bro 😂😂
I absolutely love silksong, and I just finished all achievements the other day. But yeah.. it literally didn't stand a chance
deserved glaze btw, still better than midsong
Ragebait used to be believable lmao gtfo of this sub
who do you think you are😭🙏
An actual fan and not just a fucking passerby lmao
Blud came over just to hate
Someone got stuck at hunters marsh :0
i finished the whole game btw
Bullshit. I don't remember E33 breaking every online game store. Or being the number one wishlist game for years.
TC not showing up gave me a wry smile - I think they gave these awards (and frankly the industry as a whole) exactly the respect they deserve lol.
Aww
I love this 😭
Hornet probably wouldn't care, honestly. She doesn't get any cool new tools to kill things with nor an interesting skill to learn.
Silksong literally fcking embarrassed every single AA and AAA game when it came out so they decided to rig the game awards to combat against it
Hollow in the suit is adorable
Silksong was a strong competitor for both Best Art Direction and Best Soundtrack, but I guess they just wanted E33 to have two wins over TLOU P2?
But again, it's not because the criteria are half-skewered towards "showing recognition to the most impactful game of 2025" that E33 was any less deserving, including on those two categories that Silksong honestly could be considered in pair or maybe better.
That is to say, E33 is a indeed pretty game and its soundtrack is absolutely fantastic, period.
There's no reason to be butthurt about it.
I'm butthurt about the indie category mainly, a game with that insane funding and backing can hardly be considered an indie.
Yeah, I am of the same opinion. But E33 does sit in a weird spot with the studio being indie (it's just the game in particular that received considerable funding).
I’ve been reading the funding was under $10M I think? I’m just curious is that considered a huge amount to where it’s no longer indie level? Just curious as this is the hot debate of EX33 not being considered indie. Not sure what to think personally.
Budget of about $10M.
CEO owns 4 companies making millions each.
Bandai and Kepler sponsoring the game.
Celebrity VAs.
Team of over 30 people, many of whom are ex-Ubisoft devs who are extremely experienced in the industry.
E33 is definitely not an indie game in my opinion. I would’ve given Blue Prince debut indie.
I'm happy for the e33 crew they did make something fantastic, i adore both games. but yeah. The more i play of skong the more i realize it's all i hoped for. Was really hoping they'd spit awards 50/50 ish hell other games deserved some too. i think the only thing I wouldn't have voted silksong for was soundtrack, it was close, but unfortunately lorien did absolutely kill it.
Well to be fair TC didn't even show up cuz they knew E33 would win and rightfully so
And, well, they live in Australia. Best to stay away from usa I think
No it’s cause they live in fucking Australia.
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