Just wait till TC releases the dlc for Silksong where Grandest Mother Silk reaches through your screen and strangles you when you get hit by her web attack.
I remember when I came onto this sub to ask where I was supposed to buy the dlc. Being told âyou got it as soon as you bought the game,â and registering that I got it for free was genuinely so awesome.
I mean, most developers would only have given them TO the backers for free and sold to everyone else so I don't think it takes away from team cherry at all.
They could have sold silksong for twice as much and people would still have said it was a very fair price. They are one of the least greedy developers out there, indisputably.
DLCs were included with time, but they are free DLCs so everyone got them. The base game didn't have Grimm, PV, sisters of battle, flying nosk, brothers oro and mato, sheo, sly, or absrad
DLC means âdownloadable contentâ. Therefore, any actual content (which usually doesnât include fixing errors) that is added is considered DLC. This also means that Minecraftâs updates are technically all DLC packs.
Itâs called DLC because if you bought the game on release, it wasnât included. It was additional content that had to be downloaded after your purchase.
Obviously the term originated back when most games were bought in a physical medium like a disk or cartridge, so as of 2025 you could be pedantic and say that any game purchased and downloaded straight from an online retailer is technically DLC.
Im being the asshole ? You replied like a dick. Why would i care if they werent a part of the original game honestly without those 3 bosses hollow knight wasnt a challenge for me like i havent fought absolute radiance tho
Honestly i just played the game i searched a little bit before and i wanted to get the full experience also not be spoiled by anything like at the start i thought you fight the radiance without any special trigger and was weirded out at the hollow knight also thought those masks was about to be sick boss fights
the pogos that move you into an enemy's hitbox like the hunter, beast, and witch give you iframes so you don't get hit by them. it happens that the iframe is enough where if you dash right after landing the hit and before the animation ends, you can even dash through enemies.
Of all of those Beast Crest Pogo is absolutely insane btw. Hunter and Witch has some good timing i-frames on hit but Beast's i-frame state is literally the entire roll animation.
It takes some getting used to but if you want to master Beast Crest it's one of the most fun ways to play Hornet.
these are literally all dlc bosses (i assume that's absrad there) if you take actuall grimm, actual hollow knight and actuall radiance, the silksong act three/late act three bosses are imo harder
but yeah, i tried my hk save once after silksong(to see if i could still beat the radiance, i did) and the knight was super trippy, like if my controller had it's buttons jumbled and then jumbled again
Personally I donât think anything in silksong was as hard as these bosses are. I have beaten lost lace and â100%â -ed a save file but I was unable to beat many of those bosses, base Grimm and radiance included. Could just be a difference between controller and keyboard but silksong felt a lot more natural in general and made it a lot easier to learn and adapt to bosses movesets
Karmelita and First Sinner are easily on par with these guys in terms of how fast they attack, how big their attacks are, and how long the fights take, it's just that Hornet has way more movement options so dodging is easier, healing is never a problem, and tools are so strong they feel like cheating so you don't use them.
I'd say that Lost Lace is harder than NKG and PV and I could see an argument for placing Karmelita over PV, though there's no question that AbsRad is harder than the rest.
Really? It's been a while since I've done NKG, and I'm not sure I've ever beaten PV, but while LL took me plenty of attempts I don't know that I would classify it as "that hard".
I agree. NKG took me maybe 5-10 attempts, and after I got his rhythm down, I actually found him easy and was surprised how much people struggled with him.
Lost Lace took me 20+ attempts over three days and beating her felt like I'd just fallen onto a highway and was narrowly missed by a 16-wheeler.
As someone whoâs beaten all of the aforementioned fights hitless, I feel like Pure Vesselâs difficulty is overstated - the issue is that most of his attacks share the same counterplay so the player can instinctively jump when they see him move and be able to dodge most of his attacks, which removes a lot of the mental load the fight places on the player. The other bosses I mentioned whose attacks generally require more specific counterplay where getting the attack telegraph wrong means eating two masks of damage
I think Lost Lace is on par with NKG and PV, and that people's experiences with all three bosses vary wildly.
Lost Lace took me far less attempts than either of the others. That said, NKG is a lot easier once you Get It, and now I'd say that he's easier than Lace.
PV is still a bastard that I struggle with even now, regardless of how much I fight him.
genuinely i started silksong yesterday and beat moorwing, everytime i encounter a problem in dodging an attack i always go 'this could've been solved with shade cloak'
10 seconds* and yeah pretty much anything will be dead after 2-3 uses. I mean you can pretty much just face tank any boss that doesn't fly. Knight feels so sluggish going back
i dont really understand, why would you play like that? doesnt it make everything so incredibly boring?
maybe it's just me but i really enjoy fighting bosses and enemies and i dont wanna cheese them with face tanking and i also dont want to kill bosses too quickly so i can fight them for longer.
Maybe it was because i played a lot of pantheon in hk but most of silksongs bosses were really easy and there were only like 5 spots where i died more than 3 times.
And i specifically use reapers crest withour any red tools so i can dodge and dance with bosses longer.
I dont mean to be mean or anything, can someone who uses others crests, or thinks of bosses/fights different than i do explain their viewpoint to me?
Nah it wasn't boring I had a lot of fun with the game. I used a lot of different crests throughout, just by endgame I found it really fun to be an unstoppable unrelenting needle machine. If that's cheese it doesn't bother me. And I'd definitely be interested in re-fighting bosses with different crests or strategies if we get a godhome or whatever but I have no regrets! Loved my playthrough
yeah if there was something like a godhome I'd also definitely try out wanderers and every other crest aswell, its just that i dont wanna wastw those rare opportunities fighting amazing bosses just for it to be over in 30 seconds.
i get the needle machine part, although i probably satisfied most of my urges when i was farming rosaries in the hallway.
Also wanderers smooth and agile feel is also really fun, but i just dislike bosses dying quickly.
I theorize that because Grandma Silk had been sealed away for decades, and she just woke up, she's a bit rusty... Who's to say that in a DLC, you won't be able to play the time/memory warping song and fight her at her prime!?
Shockingly, 3 DLC bosses added after everyone had mastered the game were difficult, while the base bosses of a game with a MUCH higher skill ceiling are considered easierâŠ
Letâs wait until Silksong DLC comes out before definitively saying which game is harder
My dude, I cannot without practice flash LL who is the true ending of Silksong, meanwhile I have not fought Radiance in nearly five years but the other day I had a single restart after I decided to get the 100% speedrun achievement for HK. The difficulty comes from the Godhome DLC of the enhanced version of the fights you face. In the same speedrun attempt (which I finished, yay!) I flashed Grimm and also The Hollow Knight (after I realized I still had my Eco charms on and then switched I should add). To be fair, I have not yet attempted the Godhome stuff yet but about to do that the next time I get the chance to play. You are either 100% wrong on this or you donât understand on how to properly charm build.
Silksong true last boss is hard as fuck, but NKG is on another level. I can only last a few seconds then laugh at how absurd the level of difficulty is.
LL and NKG kinda have the same difficulty where once you figure out how to fight them, they are fairly easy if you are being patient.
It took me almost an hour to beat her, but after getting 100% and fighting her again, beat her in the first try. The same with NKG when trying them in P5.
True, but I would argue that LL is harder because she responds to you, as a player. NKG only has one move that is done in response to whatever you do, which is when he throws those flying things at you and if u get too close to him early on he teleports on the other side and throws two more.
LL it feels like has foresight and if you do a move before she does, you will most likely get cooked. You cannot really go in with a strategy against her, you just have to be better than her.
This is my biggest gripe that I genuinely fucking hate. She knows what I am about to do before I KNOW WHAT I'M ABOUT TO DO. And makes sure that I get hit after hit after hit after hit faster than I could heal. It sucks.
She just decides whatever the fuck she wants to do, not obeying any laws of clear telegraphs, its literally just "hm this time I will do my 3rd dash" and sometimes "hmmm no I think this time I will uppercut" like how about making a boss respect the battle and be consistent and not a dogshit rngfest.
And no its not based on proximity it was never based on proximity to her I am SO tired of that cope she just does whatever version of her attack she wants and its on you if you dont telepathically see the future on which she's about to do because they BOTH have the same telegraphs.
I'd argue I have the same issue with Karmelita. Attack 1 has the telegraph of her hands being at a 15° angle, attack 2 at 20° angle, attack 3 at 40° angle and attack 4 at 60° angle like I'm sorry but THAT IS NOT A GOOD TELEGRAPH WHEN HER HANDS ARE ACTUAL STICKS. You cannot in that split second tell what shes about to do.
I understand your frustration, but I think your read of LL is not accurate.
To answer your example, she does uppercut only if you spent time jumping between 2nd and 3rd dash or decide that you'd dodge 3rd dash by jumping before she starts her attack.
It is true that this attack is not based on proximity although she has some moves that are based on proximity, e.g. you are almost always guaranteed to body-hit her if you "attack her once" and then run in the opposite direction, as in sprint run, because she teleports right in your face and starts her swinging attack motion.
And about my comment regarding foresight, it feels this way because some enemy AIs seem to understand what your intent is sometimes. Not just LL but random enemies too. E.g. those flying guys in citadel always dodge backwards when you jump and when you get into dash-attack range. even before you decide to dash. they will try to aim their shots in the places where you are likely to end up when the projectile would hit you, etc.
I do somewhat agree with you about Karmelita. She is not well telegraphed, even when she does one move, she might branch it out into two (the spinning ball in the air can either be that she shoots out boomerangs or she goes to the ground and shoots out spikes on the ground), though the lesson is same here, you cannot engage first or if you engage first you cannot stay long and you will most likely be punished for it.
I feel like this is the biggest difference between fights in Silksong and fights in Hollow Knight.
With all the tools the game provides it took me 6 attempts to beat SS's true final boss. Im certain i took longer with Pure Vessel, where you cant just heal infinitely, safely and whenever you want for 4 masks while invincible lol.
I think silksong has a higher skill ceiling, so if youre mechanically good youre really not going to struggle. Breezed through the game with a trillion inputs a second and full speed sprinting through every area and screen just pogo-ing everything. That was not enjoyable to me though, i enjoyed just waddling around and actually getting to feel the atmosphere in the original game. We were given sprint way, way too early.
I feel like the Lace fights are on par with Pure Vessel/NKG. They're both high speed bosses that require you to learn boss patterns requiring you to immediate react to the boss but in doing so you get into a rhythm of react and counter attack. The biggest difference is how the knight and Hornet fight. The Knight has shade cloak and DD giving them iframes to avoid attacks. Hornet has tool set ups that allow her to get free passive damage in the fight while being nimble enough to avoid damage.
Hot take: If these bosses were plopped in Silksong unchanged, your average player with Hornetâs tools and moveset would turn all 3 of them into Swiss Cheese.
I mean to be fair, all of them are DLC bosses, cause the original radiance itself is not that much harder than GMS in my opinion, and grandmother silk's fight was specifically designed to be beatable by a player who can't heal or use tools and likely isn't a hollow knight pro.
Lost lace is EASILY on the level of some of the harder DLC bosses. I wouldn't say among the top hardest by any means, but at least upper mid tier.
I replayed hollowknight after playing silksong. I instantly felt easier fighting all the bosses. I got used to the faster combat in silksong and the lack of no i frames. all the harder bosses immediately felt like normal bosses from silksong. only perfect vessel felt on par with lost lace.
I've encountered several Silksong bosses two or three times as difficult as Nightmare King Grimm. So much so that I'm beginning to give up on this fucking game.
I think Silksong has the same issues Elden Ring has when describing boss/game difficulty compared to past games. Yes looking purely at the speed and power of bosses in Silksong they are "harder". But the movement, healing, and absurd power of red tools that Hornet has makes every boss much easier than most bosses in Hollow Knight for me.
I just finished skarrsinger and let me tell you id rather fight NKG radiant than her. NKG purevesel, have these rigid attacks you can dance your way through although purevesel hitbox is a Lil chunky, you can dodge him reliably. But this amt woman is pure rng.
Those are DLC bosses and also abs rad is the only more difficult one. NKG is real easy if you bother to learn the attacks, and pure vessel is the same.
I did every boss in hk on radiant and yes, Lost Lace and Skarrsinger Karmelita are harder than any boss in hollow knight. (I would argue that Last Judge also mogs NKG but we ainât ready for that discussion)
Iâm not sure if Silksongâs bosses are harder or not, because I dealt with Hollow Knightâs hardest first. Like, The Radiance took me four hours to beat the first time, while Lost Lace took like six tries. Are any of our opinions valid? And how much do red tools affect difficulty? Karmelita took me an hourâ2/3 the time of NKG and 2/5 the time of PVâbut I cogfly-nuked her third phase. Lace 2 took 45 minutes while Lost Lace took 25, so is Lost Lace easier or did I just get way better? Beating Pure Vessel Radiant probably skews things. Etc.
i beat pure vessel after silksong, and nkg just before silksong.
The Last Judge would beat the living shit of both of them while on phase 1, not a single boss outside of AbsRad is even close to mid game Silksong, Trobbio is Sukuna in comparison
you also should consider that pretty much all of the hardest fights in HK were not in the game at release. Extending this logic to Silksong...... well, lets just say I'm guessing we haven't seen the half of the deviousness Team Cherry is cooking up for this game
All those are DLC bosses and honestly? Grimm and Pure Vessel aren't as hard as Silksong's harder bosses. The latter only seems like it because the run-back is obnoxious, which is x10 for AbsRads.
I half agree? Double Damage especially feels a lot worse on the Knight with their worse heal. On these bosses specifically, Iâd still have a couple of the Act 3 bosses over NKG and Pure Vessel ( Karmelita and Lost Lace )
Absolute Radiance is something else though imo, especially with how long the fight can be. Probably just because Iâve died to her final phase a couple times on p5 but I think the nerves are more of a factor with her compared to any of the other bosses too.Â
Lost lace was definitely harder than the hollow knight and radiance. I spent almost 4 hours on her and it was epic and glorious when I finally won. I beat the radiance on like my 5th try
NKG is tough but itâs really just a skill check, and I had harder fights in Silksong (and thatâs harder fights even with all the extra tools & abilities Hornet has). But after my first time beating him every time after has been easy.
Pure Vessel is tough, but being locked to Pantheons to reach him adds some artificial difficult to his fight. On his own the fight is peak but not insanely difficult.
And Absolute Radiance yeah is probably the hardest fight in the two games, but again being properly tied to Pantheon 5 adds some non-Radiance difficult to it all. But also, the add-on/DLC amped up version of the true final boss should be hard. If/when Silksong gets its add-on content I wouldnât be surprised to see some âAbsoluteâ/True GMS or Lost Lace boss suddenly making Absolute Radiance look easy.
That will probably be the case, but still i had a lot more trouble when playing hollow knight. Let's not talk about how pathetic i felt when i couldn't even beat the 4th pantheon today
Average Silksong boss is harder than average Hollow Knight boss but none of the Silksong bosses have reached the level of Pure Vessel or NKG let along Absolute Radiance (yet).
I'm really sick of the "but DLC" non-argument. Skong was originally planned as HK DLC. Its just that Hornets tool kit is overpowered. That's why none of the bosses in silksong are anywhere near as difficult. If you could spam tacks and cogflies on pure vessel, he would be a joke too.
The reason that argument is made is because it's expected the optional DLC bosses and refights will be ramped up in challenge, just like they were in HK.
Skong was originally planned as HK DLC.
And I'm sure no design decisions/change were made in the 7 years after they decided to make it a full game instead
2 of those are dlc. 1 one of them is mostly infamous for their dlc version.
Yeahhh... ig all of them are dlc because of absrad
Just wait till TC releases the dlc for Silksong where Grandest Mother Silk reaches through your screen and strangles you when you get hit by her web attack.
Ahh I'll gladly take itđ©
đđ
Absolute Mother Silk go brr
Dlc ? I bought the game without dlc yet still fought them
all of hollow knight's dlc is non-paid and comes with the game because team cherry is just goated like that
they actually said something like "we dont know how to actually make a dlc so theyre free updates"
I remember when I came onto this sub to ask where I was supposed to buy the dlc. Being told âyou got it as soon as you bought the game,â and registering that I got it for free was genuinely so awesome.
User flair checks out.
They are goated but they weren't paid because they were promised as backer goals to be free.
I mean, most developers would only have given them TO the backers for free and sold to everyone else so I don't think it takes away from team cherry at all.
They could have sold silksong for twice as much and people would still have said it was a very fair price. They are one of the least greedy developers out there, indisputably.
godhome wasnt in the stretch goals and its there
All the DLCs are free and later were combined into one version.
The DLC is free and included into the game
The DLC was free but the boss is shown in this picture are not in the base game
DLCs were included with time, but they are free DLCs so everyone got them. The base game didn't have Grimm, PV, sisters of battle, flying nosk, brothers oro and mato, sheo, sly, or absrad
Or hive knight or GPZ or white defender or dream gates or the unbreakable charms
Wait, I never realized GPZ was not in the base game
Shocked Pikachu face
I wish he was in neither đ
Guys I think the DLC is free and included with the game.
Yeah idk maybe hard to imagine a company doing a dlc for free
Because it's not DLC but updates
DLC means âdownloadable contentâ. Therefore, any actual content (which usually doesnât include fixing errors) that is added is considered DLC. This also means that Minecraftâs updates are technically all DLC packs.
Yeah maybe idk need to check with the other 100 comments to be sure
Hard to call it "DLC" when I don't think you can turn it off. It's just a newer version of the game. Cherry is the best.
Itâs called DLC because if you bought the game on release, it wasnât included. It was additional content that had to be downloaded after your purchase.
Obviously the term originated back when most games were bought in a physical medium like a disk or cartridge, so as of 2025 you could be pedantic and say that any game purchased and downloaded straight from an online retailer is technically DLC.
What it really means is post-release content.
Minecraft is king of DLC then
Yeah the DLCS are more like updates considering the fact that what makes a dlc a dlc is that it's a optional download
dlc is free and included in the game because tc is just goated like that
DLC just means DownLoaded Content, it doesn't need to be inherently paid for.
the DLC is more like content updates, theyre free
Why people downvoting me i downloaded this 3 weeks ago đ
Because common knowledge especially for three weeks lmao
Wait i downloaded and actually enjoyed the game without looking at anything or researching anything else đ± shocker!!
Alright i tried youre just being an asshole now
He's right tho, he downloaded the game recently and enjoyed it without searching for anything
He couldn't guess some bosses were from DLCs/Updates, except maybe by looking at the icons in the menu
Thank you đ it just was weird to me i fought them without buying dlc. Thanks to all those đ€âïžâumm actually its freeâ
Im being the asshole ? You replied like a dick. Why would i care if they werent a part of the original game honestly without those 3 bosses hollow knight wasnt a challenge for me like i havent fought absolute radiance tho
Tbh the fact you havent gotten spoiled in a month is impressive cuz most people woulve found out by now
Honestly i just played the game i searched a little bit before and i wanted to get the full experience also not be spoiled by anything like at the start i thought you fight the radiance without any special trigger and was weirded out at the hollow knight also thought those masks was about to be sick boss fights
All three of those are dlc bosses, silksong has no dlcs yet.
Im mostly glazing the hornets fast movement because even the hardest bosses took me like 4 tries to beat when i first encountered them
Fair but hornet doesnât have shade cloak or DD so no I frames
several of her silk skills do give you noticeable post-attack iframes and even some of the pogos do that too
Wait which pogos do? I did forget about cross stitch and sharpdart tho tbh
the pogos that move you into an enemy's hitbox like the hunter, beast, and witch give you iframes so you don't get hit by them. it happens that the iframe is enough where if you dash right after landing the hit and before the animation ends, you can even dash through enemies.
Wow, Iâm surprised I didnât know that as Iâve basically only used the hunter crest in my 200 hours playing
Of all of those Beast Crest Pogo is absolutely insane btw. Hunter and Witch has some good timing i-frames on hit but Beast's i-frame state is literally the entire roll animation.
It takes some getting used to but if you want to master Beast Crest it's one of the most fun ways to play Hornet.
Fair enough
these are literally all dlc bosses (i assume that's absrad there) if you take actuall grimm, actual hollow knight and actuall radiance, the silksong act three/late act three bosses are imo harder
Actual Grimm is also a dlc boss.
But yeah I bet Skong DLCs are gonna be hella hard
i forgot
but yeah, i tried my hk save once after silksong(to see if i could still beat the radiance, i did) and the knight was super trippy, like if my controller had it's buttons jumbled and then jumbled again
Thats exactly how i felt. Couldnt play without dash and sprint master charms
I ALWAYS play with sprint master charm lol (In Godhome too)
Personally I donât think anything in silksong was as hard as these bosses are. I have beaten lost lace and â100%â -ed a save file but I was unable to beat many of those bosses, base Grimm and radiance included. Could just be a difference between controller and keyboard but silksong felt a lot more natural in general and made it a lot easier to learn and adapt to bosses movesets
Yeah same, I don't understand what people consider so hard about the Silksong bosses.
They look strong.
Karmelita and First Sinner are easily on par with these guys in terms of how fast they attack, how big their attacks are, and how long the fights take, it's just that Hornet has way more movement options so dodging is easier, healing is never a problem, and tools are so strong they feel like cheating so you don't use them.
Silksong definitely has the harder enemies and early to mid bosses but they aren't harder than the strongest of hollow knight
I guarantee that will change once silksong gets it's dlc though
Okay after 10 years when every dlc has come out i will tell you if i had trouble
dawg it took like 1 year for all of hollow knight's dlc to come out I dont think we'll be waiting that long
I'd say that Lost Lace is harder than NKG and PV and I could see an argument for placing Karmelita over PV, though there's no question that AbsRad is harder than the rest.
Really? It's been a while since I've done NKG, and I'm not sure I've ever beaten PV, but while LL took me plenty of attempts I don't know that I would classify it as "that hard".
NKG isnt as hard as you might remember, itâs easier than Silksong, youâve just gotten better, but yeah, PV is harder than all of them.
Atleast lost lace doesnt have a run back basically though
I agree. NKG took me maybe 5-10 attempts, and after I got his rhythm down, I actually found him easy and was surprised how much people struggled with him.
Lost Lace took me 20+ attempts over three days and beating her felt like I'd just fallen onto a highway and was narrowly missed by a 16-wheeler.
No, not really. PV is easily harder than all of Silksongs hardest bosses and itâs not even close. The rest are true, but PV is stupid hard.
As someone whoâs beaten all of the aforementioned fights hitless, I feel like Pure Vesselâs difficulty is overstated - the issue is that most of his attacks share the same counterplay so the player can instinctively jump when they see him move and be able to dodge most of his attacks, which removes a lot of the mental load the fight places on the player. The other bosses I mentioned whose attacks generally require more specific counterplay where getting the attack telegraph wrong means eating two masks of damage
Pure vessel is the only boss I havent nohit. The attacks are all just really really hard to dodge in my opinion.
I think Lost Lace is on par with NKG and PV, and that people's experiences with all three bosses vary wildly.
Lost Lace took me far less attempts than either of the others. That said, NKG is a lot easier once you Get It, and now I'd say that he's easier than Lace.
PV is still a bastard that I struggle with even now, regardless of how much I fight him.
AbsRad isnt harder than LL, PoH is harder than LL but AbsRad by herself is easier
Don't worry, I'm with you.Â
Hardly anyone shares our opinion though
Yeah no sprint and slower attack speed are hard to adjust to going back to HK
But God I missed you shade cloak
just use sharpdart that would suffice /s
Lol I just realized thats my favorite silk skill to use I'm basically just cosplaying the knight
Wanderer+Longclaw+Sharpdart is probably one of the most common builds in Skong. People really love the Knight's skillset.
sharpdart as an anscetral art would be peak or atleast an upgrade to your cloak
genuinely i started silksong yesterday and beat moorwing, everytime i encounter a problem in dodging an attack i always go 'this could've been solved with shade cloak'
Slower attack speed? What? The Knight is way faster at attacking. Esp with quick slash.
Wanderers crest + flea brew is so much faster than the knight with quick slash
So for eight seconds? Common.
10 seconds* and yeah pretty much anything will be dead after 2-3 uses. I mean you can pretty much just face tank any boss that doesn't fly. Knight feels so sluggish going back
i dont really understand, why would you play like that? doesnt it make everything so incredibly boring?
maybe it's just me but i really enjoy fighting bosses and enemies and i dont wanna cheese them with face tanking and i also dont want to kill bosses too quickly so i can fight them for longer. Maybe it was because i played a lot of pantheon in hk but most of silksongs bosses were really easy and there were only like 5 spots where i died more than 3 times.
And i specifically use reapers crest withour any red tools so i can dodge and dance with bosses longer. I dont mean to be mean or anything, can someone who uses others crests, or thinks of bosses/fights different than i do explain their viewpoint to me?
Nah it wasn't boring I had a lot of fun with the game. I used a lot of different crests throughout, just by endgame I found it really fun to be an unstoppable unrelenting needle machine. If that's cheese it doesn't bother me. And I'd definitely be interested in re-fighting bosses with different crests or strategies if we get a godhome or whatever but I have no regrets! Loved my playthrough
yeah if there was something like a godhome I'd also definitely try out wanderers and every other crest aswell, its just that i dont wanna wastw those rare opportunities fighting amazing bosses just for it to be over in 30 seconds.
i get the needle machine part, although i probably satisfied most of my urges when i was farming rosaries in the hallway. Also wanderers smooth and agile feel is also really fun, but i just dislike bosses dying quickly.
Yeah but the shade cloak is only necessary for bosses that do undodgeable attacks
Necessary yes. Generally useful and convenient, different story
Pure Vessel is not as hard as Karmelita IMO
Absrad has not been topped, tho.
I'm waiting for Absolute Grand Mother Silk, the normal version is too easy
Adding First Sinner's Needle Attacks and Rune Rage to GMS with a little bit of speed increase can easily turn her to AbsRad tier.
Plus we didn't even get a platform section with her. Imagine fighting and dodging her Silk and Needle attacks while platforming.
Maybe I'm just bad at HK but I had a harder time with normal Radiance than any boss in Silksong, including Lost Lace.
Tbf, I personally think hornet is just a lot stronger (gameplay wise)
But which has the harder base game boss fights
Silksong by a mile
By about a thousand miles.
Still Hollow Knight
If this is your definition of endgame, we have yet to see Silksong's "endgame" bosses.
My guess is they will be more challenging than Hollow Knight when they finally release.
I theorize that because Grandma Silk had been sealed away for decades, and she just woke up, she's a bit rusty... Who's to say that in a DLC, you won't be able to play the time/memory warping song and fight her at her prime!?
yea.. lets just wait for DLCs. imo Dancer and LL are harder than anything in HK base game.
Shockingly, 3 DLC bosses added after everyone had mastered the game were difficult, while the base bosses of a game with a MUCH higher skill ceiling are considered easierâŠ
Letâs wait until Silksong DLC comes out before definitively saying which game is harder
My dude, I cannot without practice flash LL who is the true ending of Silksong, meanwhile I have not fought Radiance in nearly five years but the other day I had a single restart after I decided to get the 100% speedrun achievement for HK. The difficulty comes from the Godhome DLC of the enhanced version of the fights you face. In the same speedrun attempt (which I finished, yay!) I flashed Grimm and also The Hollow Knight (after I realized I still had my Eco charms on and then switched I should add). To be fair, I have not yet attempted the Godhome stuff yet but about to do that the next time I get the chance to play. You are either 100% wrong on this or you donât understand on how to properly charm build.
Look, I get that these bugs can be hot (especially Grimm). But I wouldn't go around flashing them.
Karmelita is the only boss in all of act 3 that gave me any trouble at all, meanwhile I still die to base radiance
Silksong true final boss is STILL harder than everything but absolute radiance maybe.
It's not even close. Silksongs true final boss fucking SUCKS
Silksong true last boss is hard as fuck, but NKG is on another level. I can only last a few seconds then laugh at how absurd the level of difficulty is.
LL and NKG kinda have the same difficulty where once you figure out how to fight them, they are fairly easy if you are being patient.
It took me almost an hour to beat her, but after getting 100% and fighting her again, beat her in the first try. The same with NKG when trying them in P5.
True, but I would argue that LL is harder because she responds to you, as a player. NKG only has one move that is done in response to whatever you do, which is when he throws those flying things at you and if u get too close to him early on he teleports on the other side and throws two more.
LL it feels like has foresight and if you do a move before she does, you will most likely get cooked. You cannot really go in with a strategy against her, you just have to be better than her.
This is my biggest gripe that I genuinely fucking hate. She knows what I am about to do before I KNOW WHAT I'M ABOUT TO DO. And makes sure that I get hit after hit after hit after hit faster than I could heal. It sucks.
She just decides whatever the fuck she wants to do, not obeying any laws of clear telegraphs, its literally just "hm this time I will do my 3rd dash" and sometimes "hmmm no I think this time I will uppercut" like how about making a boss respect the battle and be consistent and not a dogshit rngfest.
And no its not based on proximity it was never based on proximity to her I am SO tired of that cope she just does whatever version of her attack she wants and its on you if you dont telepathically see the future on which she's about to do because they BOTH have the same telegraphs.
I'd argue I have the same issue with Karmelita. Attack 1 has the telegraph of her hands being at a 15° angle, attack 2 at 20° angle, attack 3 at 40° angle and attack 4 at 60° angle like I'm sorry but THAT IS NOT A GOOD TELEGRAPH WHEN HER HANDS ARE ACTUAL STICKS. You cannot in that split second tell what shes about to do.
Sorry for the rant
I understand your frustration, but I think your read of LL is not accurate.
To answer your example, she does uppercut only if you spent time jumping between 2nd and 3rd dash or decide that you'd dodge 3rd dash by jumping before she starts her attack.
It is true that this attack is not based on proximity although she has some moves that are based on proximity, e.g. you are almost always guaranteed to body-hit her if you "attack her once" and then run in the opposite direction, as in sprint run, because she teleports right in your face and starts her swinging attack motion.
And about my comment regarding foresight, it feels this way because some enemy AIs seem to understand what your intent is sometimes. Not just LL but random enemies too. E.g. those flying guys in citadel always dodge backwards when you jump and when you get into dash-attack range. even before you decide to dash. they will try to aim their shots in the places where you are likely to end up when the projectile would hit you, etc.
I do somewhat agree with you about Karmelita. She is not well telegraphed, even when she does one move, she might branch it out into two (the spinning ball in the air can either be that she shoots out boomerangs or she goes to the ground and shoots out spikes on the ground), though the lesson is same here, you cannot engage first or if you engage first you cannot stay long and you will most likely be punished for it.
I feel like this is the biggest difference between fights in Silksong and fights in Hollow Knight.
I beat Silksongâs final boss in about an hour of attempts on my blind run while NKG took me an entire afternoon.
And on my first steel soul run that reached act 2 I got the 100% achievement- with the right build the final boss is trivial.
If youâre trying needle only maybe itâs comparable to NKG or PV but with plasmified, cogflies, etc itâs way easier.
With all the tools the game provides it took me 6 attempts to beat SS's true final boss. Im certain i took longer with Pure Vessel, where you cant just heal infinitely, safely and whenever you want for 4 masks while invincible lol.
Endgame? More like bâonus content.
I count the achievements as part of the game
I think silksong has a higher skill ceiling, so if youre mechanically good youre really not going to struggle. Breezed through the game with a trillion inputs a second and full speed sprinting through every area and screen just pogo-ing everything. That was not enjoyable to me though, i enjoyed just waddling around and actually getting to feel the atmosphere in the original game. We were given sprint way, way too early.
Thats why i waddled without sprinting on my first savefile. đ
Smart, but ADHD got to me đ
đ
Period.
Recently learned about Sawtooth Spam and it makes all the bosses TRIVIAL
I found the Absolute Raidiance harder than lost lace
I feel like the Lace fights are on par with Pure Vessel/NKG. They're both high speed bosses that require you to learn boss patterns requiring you to immediate react to the boss but in doing so you get into a rhythm of react and counter attack. The biggest difference is how the knight and Hornet fight. The Knight has shade cloak and DD giving them iframes to avoid attacks. Hornet has tool set ups that allow her to get free passive damage in the fight while being nimble enough to avoid damage.
Now imagine how crazy Silksong DLC bosses are going to be.
Right now I will argue what GMS with Cursed Crest and Lost Lace are the hardest bosses in the game with Karmelita and Shakra lagging slightly behind.
Also no GPZ, Markoth and Collector?
If we're talking about the base game, HK bosses are insanely easier than SS ones.
Most of HK bosses I didn't even die once on my first run.
Radiance, I beat her at my third try.
I beat normal radiance on my first try. Expected harder ngl. I was cryin at watcher knights though (didn't have upgraded dash yet, so that's that)
If we compare both of them with no dlc's, i think the hardest HK boss is failed champion, and hardest silksong boss is the far fields savage beastfly
Hot take: If these bosses were plopped in Silksong unchanged, your average player with Hornetâs tools and moveset would turn all 3 of them into Swiss Cheese.
I mean to be fair, all of them are DLC bosses, cause the original radiance itself is not that much harder than GMS in my opinion, and grandmother silk's fight was specifically designed to be beatable by a player who can't heal or use tools and likely isn't a hollow knight pro.
Lost lace is EASILY on the level of some of the harder DLC bosses. I wouldn't say among the top hardest by any means, but at least upper mid tier.
I replayed hollowknight after playing silksong. I instantly felt easier fighting all the bosses. I got used to the faster combat in silksong and the lack of no i frames. all the harder bosses immediately felt like normal bosses from silksong. only perfect vessel felt on par with lost lace.
Silksong is just a harder game in general because shade cloak and some charms provides so much safety in hollow knight
I've encountered several Silksong bosses two or three times as difficult as Nightmare King Grimm. So much so that I'm beginning to give up on this fucking game.
Karmelita seems harder than the 2 of these.
2-3 years vs 7 years and people talking about dlc đ€Ł
I think Silksong has the same issues Elden Ring has when describing boss/game difficulty compared to past games. Yes looking purely at the speed and power of bosses in Silksong they are "harder". But the movement, healing, and absurd power of red tools that Hornet has makes every boss much easier than most bosses in Hollow Knight for me.
I just finished skarrsinger and let me tell you id rather fight NKG radiant than her. NKG purevesel, have these rigid attacks you can dance your way through although purevesel hitbox is a Lil chunky, you can dodge him reliably. But this amt woman is pure rng.
im sitting here, barely able to beat Trobbio while also shitting on NKG. Silksong is def harder lmao (yes its a skill issue but eh)
Those are DLC bosses and also abs rad is the only more difficult one. NKG is real easy if you bother to learn the attacks, and pure vessel is the same.
HK when dlc
I did every boss in hk on radiant and yes, Lost Lace and Skarrsinger Karmelita are harder than any boss in hollow knight. (I would argue that Last Judge also mogs NKG but we ainât ready for that discussion)
All of these are DLC
Just wait until Silksong gets it's own
Iâm not sure if Silksongâs bosses are harder or not, because I dealt with Hollow Knightâs hardest first. Like, The Radiance took me four hours to beat the first time, while Lost Lace took like six tries. Are any of our opinions valid? And how much do red tools affect difficulty? Karmelita took me an hourâ2/3 the time of NKG and 2/5 the time of PVâbut I cogfly-nuked her third phase. Lace 2 took 45 minutes while Lost Lace took 25, so is Lost Lace easier or did I just get way better? Beating Pure Vessel Radiant probably skews things. Etc.
I'm betting silksonga dlc will top them
i beat pure vessel after silksong, and nkg just before silksong.
The Last Judge would beat the living shit of both of them while on phase 1, not a single boss outside of AbsRad is even close to mid game Silksong, Trobbio is Sukuna in comparison
In general the Silksong bosses are not that hard, I'm genuinly so confused on what part of its bosses people struggle with.
nah
Personally had a lot more trouble with SS bosses vs HK bosses.
you also should consider that pretty much all of the hardest fights in HK were not in the game at release. Extending this logic to Silksong...... well, lets just say I'm guessing we haven't seen the half of the deviousness Team Cherry is cooking up for this game
Honestly, maybe I just haven't gotten there yet, but the bosses in Silksong seem either easier or about the same as hollow Knight so far.
I think the environment is much harder. I die trying to get back to my cocoon way more often than I did in hollow Knight
All those are DLC bosses and honestly? Grimm and Pure Vessel aren't as hard as Silksong's harder bosses. The latter only seems like it because the run-back is obnoxious, which is x10 for AbsRads.
Silksongâs late game bosses are much harder.
The only late game boss that is hard on HK without DLCs is normal Radiance, and Lace is 10x harder
Lost Lace is significantly harder than any HK boss minus Absolute Radiance.Â
All of these are DLC bosses
These are dlc bosses, base hollow knight is absurdly easy compared to base silksong
Buddy, they are all dlc. Compare normal radiance or traitor lord to lost lace or Karmelita. Itâs not even close.
Lost Lace beat my ass harder than any of these bums in just a day
Besides radience the rest are dlc bosses, a few you camt exactly compare... yet
I half agree? Double Damage especially feels a lot worse on the Knight with their worse heal. On these bosses specifically, Iâd still have a couple of the Act 3 bosses over NKG and Pure Vessel ( Karmelita and Lost Lace )
Absolute Radiance is something else though imo, especially with how long the fight can be. Probably just because Iâve died to her final phase a couple times on p5 but I think the nerves are more of a factor with her compared to any of the other bosses too.Â
Karmelita is harder than radiance
Pure Vessel is the Hollow Knight on steroids. Nightmare King Grimm is Grimm on steroids. Lost Lace is both of them combined on steroids.
Lost lace was definitely harder than the hollow knight and radiance. I spent almost 4 hours on her and it was epic and glorious when I finally won. I beat the radiance on like my 5th try
I no hit both PV and SSK and guess which one was harder
PV by a mile
I al radiant'd NKG and he was also harder than SSK just saying
I struggled way more with the dream bosses in HK than ANY of the Silksong bosses
Absrad and summoned saviour are only two bosses I havenât defeated and itâs for different reasons. LL suck my ass
IMO Silksong bosses are still harder.
NKG is tough but itâs really just a skill check, and I had harder fights in Silksong (and thatâs harder fights even with all the extra tools & abilities Hornet has). But after my first time beating him every time after has been easy.
Pure Vessel is tough, but being locked to Pantheons to reach him adds some artificial difficult to his fight. On his own the fight is peak but not insanely difficult.
And Absolute Radiance yeah is probably the hardest fight in the two games, but again being properly tied to Pantheon 5 adds some non-Radiance difficult to it all. But also, the add-on/DLC amped up version of the true final boss should be hard. If/when Silksong gets its add-on content I wouldnât be surprised to see some âAbsoluteâ/True GMS or Lost Lace boss suddenly making Absolute Radiance look easy.
Abs Rad is only hard because it's at the end of an incredibly long boss gauntlet and your nerves are completely shot by the time you get to them.
That will probably be the case, but still i had a lot more trouble when playing hollow knight. Let's not talk about how pathetic i felt when i couldn't even beat the 4th pantheon today
Silksong's runbacks are the true final bosses
There is one hard runback in the entire game and the boss itself is pretty easy once you realise the boss can't really attack above it
Aside from Groal, which runbacks are bad? Or are you counting the couple bosses with pre-boss arenas as runbacks too?
Lost Lace is harder than Absrad and NKG to me but Wanderer's Crest clears
Average Silksong boss is harder than average Hollow Knight boss but none of the Silksong bosses have reached the level of Pure Vessel or NKG let along Absolute Radiance (yet).
Lost lace is NKG with more attack variety.
NKG is stupid easy once you learn the attacks because they're so predictable.
None of these fights were in base game.
The hardest fights in base game were like... False Champion, Radiance, and Soul Tyrant I guess.
I'm really sick of the "but DLC" non-argument. Skong was originally planned as HK DLC. Its just that Hornets tool kit is overpowered. That's why none of the bosses in silksong are anywhere near as difficult. If you could spam tacks and cogflies on pure vessel, he would be a joke too.
The reason that argument is made is because it's expected the optional DLC bosses and refights will be ramped up in challenge, just like they were in HK.
And I'm sure no design decisions/change were made in the 7 years after they decided to make it a full game instead
Youre right. On my steelsoul run i used only tools that require actual planning and strategy. Made the bossfights a lot more fun