Watergate is awful and everything but man, the more I hear about his personal life the more I'm tempted to forget about Watergate. Would've loved to just sit down and have a lengthy conversation with him
I don't think they do, it's just a bit of national pride to say they were the ones to finally beat one of the greatest military geniused to ever live, so they like to bring it up. Like Russians do with beating the nazis.
Yes, and the Prussians and Russians also beat Napoleon, but I assume that part gets forgotten by Brits just as much as Russians forget about everyone else beating the nazis (and their alliance with them lol).
When people mention historical battles or wars that give them national pride, they often forget about the larger picture, and think they did everything.
Because sure, Russia would have folded without the U.K. and the U.S. in WW2, but without the disaster of the Russian campaign that cost him his experienced army, and the threat of the Prussians closing in, Napoleon probably would have had beef wellington after beating the British at Waterloo.
What? At which point did I exude any anti-British sentiment?
I like British things, the humor, the TV shows, I'm currently going through a renaissance of reading my old Agatha Christie Miss Marple books. My statement was in general how average people talk about historical events that form their national identity, its hero building, simplifying history to focus on national glory. I don't understand what you could even take offence to there lol.
I would like to add that while the nefarious Brits, aided by their excellent propaganda, like to claim to be the sole victors that defeated Napoleon...
But more than half of the allied forces under command of Wellington at Waterloo were not British, the Dutch brought about 2/3rds of the force of the Brits and the Hanoverians 1/3rd. With Brunswick and Nassau forces adding another say.. 9k tipping the balance over half. That is without counting the Prussians.
But to compensate I will officially allow the UK to claim shared victory over the Spanish-Habsburg empire in the 80 years war of Dutch independence, I think this is only fair.
I was referring less to forgetting about the horrifying deeds of the Nazis and more about how it's a foundational aspect of Britishness to constantly crow about our contribution to beating them. Blitz spirit and all that.
Not seen as close to literally the worst. Just seen as another hypocritical dictator bent on dominating Europe. Of course he was seen as a threat to the UK, which was at war with him for so long. And the UK of course has a historical animosity/rivalry with the French.
Actual overall views on him in the UK are definitely mixed, even if they lean more negative, or more so than elsewhere.
British popular historians and documentaries will be much fairer than, eg, Ridley Scott. But he has literally expressed contempt for historians as a profession.
I feel like all the talk of Ridley Scott's film being a hit piece on Napoleon has really overegged in people's minds how much the British hate or even think about Napoleon.
Beating him is obviously a point of pride given he essentially ended up being France Final Boss, but he is nowhere near Hitler in terms of how "evil" he is seen. Most people don't even know anything about him other than him being kind of French.
When Napoleon was on St. Helena, he spent a lot of time with a British family that lived there. Their daughter, Betsy Balcombe, was terrified of him. She had been taught stories about an ogre named Napoleon who would eat little kids if they didn't behave. She quickly warmed up to him and he basically became like an uncle to her
Napoleon isn't even mentioned in our school history curriculums. The average Brit wouldn't be able to tell you anything about him, other than "French leader/general who was short."
I suspect, in Montgomery's case, Napoleonic tactics were just heavily discussed in whichever military academies he attended.
Crimea, by Jove. War was war in those days, and men were men. No room for weaklings. Balaclava for instance. Here, you fellows remember the positions. Now, here, these nuts were the Russians - guns, guns, guns. On the right, the British infantry - the thin red line. There was the commander-in-chief and here was I, at the head of the old 68th. The right was impossible, the left was blocked, behind us was the commander-in-chief. I realised the position in a flash. I said, "The 68th will move forward." Immediately one of my subalterns came to me, shaking. Absolutely shaking. I said, "What's wrong Carruthers?" "I'm afraid to face those guns, sir". I said, "Would you rather face me?" Hmm. He took one look at my face and off he went. Ten minutes later he was shot to pieces at the head of his men, as a soldier should be, eh?
I think Henry Wallace was like it too. He'd ruin dates by taking women to his chicken coop cause he thought it was the most fun thing cause he was just so passionate about farming. (I think he ended up getting married young though i don't think he was as abrasive as Nixon or Monty)
Hunter S. Thompson - who hated Nixon with a passion - met him once and was shocked to have an enjoyable time discussing football with him and wrote years later that it was clear Nixon genuinely knew what he was talking about.
To add to this, Nixon's campaign manager invited Thompson to ride on the bus and have a 1 on 1 with Nixon. Thompson was understandably confused why they would invite a hostile journalist to have such intimate access. Turns out, Nixon was jonesing to discuss college football and Thompson was the only reporter who was on Nixon's level for following the sport.
Thompson is known for embellishing his reporting (to put it mildly) but I absolutely believe this happened because I can’t imagine him doing a gonzo story to make Nixon look good. If he felt Nixon was just repeating some memorized talking points he’d learned to try and fool voters I’d expect Thompson to have written that.
I bet some of the other staffers were furious it was even suggested, but then I'm sure Nixon had been going on and on about how no one around him knew shit about college football and he knew damn well that fucking hippie Thompson did
Nixon looked like a hog and was obscenely paranoid. Despite that the dude became president, the national popularity contest. He was clearly maxed out in charisma to get as far as he did
Well, he wasn’t maxed out - JFK clearly had greater charisma than Nixon. But yeah, no one really gets that far in politics (or other, non-technical careers) without a hefty amount of charisma.
I would argue Nixon has greater charisma since they did have a debate. People who listened to him on the radio said he dominated while those who watched him said he lost.
Only reason he lost was because he had severe diarrhea and was sweating like a pig to clench his cheeks.
The NixonFoundation YT channel has a lot of good clips from Nixon later in life, talking about geopolitics and reflecting on other leaders, and it's clear the guy was an incredible statesman despite also being a paranoid POS. He did have a wacky form of charisma for sure.
That's the thing with people you consider enemies....you might have things in common with them, that if they just behaved a little differently, you might actually have good conversations with them, maybe even become friends.
I think about this a lot when it comes to how incels/grifters/etc take over hobby spaces. Like, we like the same things, if they weren't nutjobs we could talk about that sort of stuff instead and maybe even enjoy it. Sigh.
You never know, maybe someone with whom you will debate will be a futur President. World leaders are all a bunch of weirdos, a former History meme reddit user is not out the table.
And he eventually got his queen. He and Pat Nixon were very devoted and close. Whatever scandals his political career had, they had nothing to do with adultery. The man was smitten with his wife, and she stood with him his entire political career. When she died, he was inconsolable, even at the funeral. He didn't survive a year without her. There's hope for us all, fellas.
Dunno anything about his political life myself other than Futurama though 😂
Other than that he didn't go Arroooo like a werewolf in real life. Well... Not that we know of in any case. Maybe in his private life, who knows. She does I guess ❤️
Nixon was a very, very strange figure with a lot of bizarre, but yet fascinating tendencies. For example, apparently a favourite among his dishes, he loved cottage cheese with a spread of ketchup on top.
I'd encourage everyone to take a deeper look into his character (ideally the biography by John A
Farell if I had to throw in a shameless plug). He's genuinely one of the most fascinating and captivating personalities of the 20th century, both the good and bad.
I thought he actually hated cottage cheese and so he ate it as almost a form of self flagellation 😂 though maybe I'm just projecting my own feelings towards it
Not quite XD. Yes, he wasn't too fond of the taste itself, but Nixon did appreciate it's nutrional value and ate it out of a desire for longevity and health. It should also be noted that he shared this dietary characteristic with his beloved grandmother Almira Milhous who actually surived to her 90's. Nixon did posess confidence issues and deep insecurities but his admiration for cottage cheese never reflected this.
Speaking off, don't be so harsh on yourself. With c*ttage cheese especially mate. Be a better friend to yourself!
This is what history will remember on Trump. He will be the Woodrow Wilson and Richard Nixon of the 21st century. He’s a character that makes for interesting history
Richard Nixon’s worst moment of his presidency is Trump’s Tuesday afternoon. The only “interesting” thing about his character is that it is so rotten and corrupt that it also puts on full display the rotten corruption that’s been growing within US politics (especially amongst the Republican Party).
The Ionians did just fine under Persian rule though, right? Miletus was even the center of a school of philosophy, so they even made meaningful contributions. Unlike some other Greek poleis like the Spartans, who produced no art or thought of any kind in that period
The Persians were notoriously lax rulers. They would have likely been no less so to their Greek subjects had they incorporated all their territory into the empire.
Hence, Greeks under the Achaemenid empire were already doing stuff with philosophy and so on.
Athens would have definitely gotten pillaged, but that was always a punitive goal they set out to achieve from the onset. Which they ultimately did.
It's hard for me to imagine a radically different Greece when the Persians had a hands off approach most of the time.
Its due to the structure of pre-modern Iranian governments in general. The lower in the tiers of administration you get, the more autonomous the population. Iranian rural peasantry for example, did not have lords. Each village's headman acted as their representative before the government and collected taxes, and the owners of the land were barred from harassing or ruling the populace.
Usually the provincial governor/Satrap was centrally assigned, and they in turn assigned regional governors to key cities, and each acted as glorified judges and tax collectors while leaving the people mostly to their own affairs. This is also why Iran remained Iranian despite being ruled by Turks and Mongols for centuries, as they adopted Iranian government and administration and rarely if ever ruled the peasantry directly.
This is just xenophobic fear mongering from the 1800s to justify colonialism. Cuz like you said if yhe Persians won sure things would be different but it's not like we'd be cannibalistic barbarians or whatever. The Persians were really developed their writings just has less cultural influence in the west than the greeks
I don’t think he’d be lying though, if the Persians had won it would have had a significant impact on the development of Western thought since it would inevitably have heavier influence from Persia. The idea that Western civilization as we know it would be different had that happened doesn’t seem like a radical stretch to me.
Obviously history would be different, but the ancient Greeks are valued in the Western canon because of the ideas they contributed. And my point was - the Greeks under Persian rule were doing so just fine. So there's no real reason to assume that entire basis disappears if the Greek mainland is also an outlying Persian province for a bit.
I don't really see it suddenly arresting the rise of Rome either, so I think it would be a rather minute change in the long run. But that's not the main point; the main point is that the Greek culture would still exist and do its thing.
The Persians had specific beef with the Athenians tho due to the Ionian revolts, the reprisal there would have been particularly bad. After the Ionian revolts, the Persians were so brutal that Herodotus remarked “There are no more Miletians in Miletus”.
Doubtlessly an exageration, as the city was rebuilt two years later and an important city during both Alexanders campaign and the wars of the Diadochi. But yes, losing a war during the ancient period was usually a bad thing. Similar things happened multiple times during the Peloponnensian war and those cities continued existing. It's not a civilisation-ending disaster (if, obviously, a horrible warcrime by modern standards. But that's not the point here)
Persians were extremely advanced in governing, so much that Alexander the Great just used their system when he took over.
Actually one of his greatest feats is that Persians were not a decaying or weak empire. In theory they were still advancing and growing, arguably at a strong point of their empire and he still defeated them.
We can't really say that Alexander just using a system once he took over was a proof of the system being good. Alexander was a S tier conqueror, but he was a terrible king. Just learn of that one friend of alexander, who constantly pilfered the royal treasury yet was never punished. Or look at the disastrous qualities of the governors he had sent to administrate his new empire.
It is not for nothing that Alexander the great empire collapsed just after his death.
He actually has a few. The EPA, Title IX, the end of forced assimilation of Native Americans. Nixon simply decided to simultaneously be the worst and best president.
IIRC, he didn't even authorize it and only learned about it afterward. It was the coverup that got him, not the initial break in (and it turned out to be entirely unneeded; Nixon absolutely crushed McGovern. Only Massachusetts went for the latter, and Nixon won the popular vote with a staggering 60.7%.
I'd blame the mess on G.G. Liddy, who watched too many James Bond movies and really wanted to go around committing spy crimes just like on TV, but was too incompetent to do so properly.
His bosses Mitchell & C.R.E.E.P. share the blame for giving Liddy too long of a leash and letting him run free.
We could debate whether Western civilization would have been better if Cyrus the Great was its most influential political figure instead of Julius Caesar !
I’m reasonably confident saying that we’ve had at least one neurodivergent president given that story. I wonder who else? TR strikes me as maybe having high-functioning ADHD.
A mate of mine brought a girl home once and while the three of us were sitting there he segued from a story about his holiday in Jordan to a discussion of Israel's failings, except he kept saying "the Jews."
He courted Pat for a while before she agreed to date him. And when I say he courted her, he used to chauffeur her to dates with other men before she finally relented and agreed to date him.
Such a vapid thing to say. I mean, its correct, but so is the claim that every major war involving Europe would have changed the west as we know it.
Hell, if Franz Ferdinands driver hadn't gotten creative with his route, it is likely that the time table and possible alliances during WW1 would have been changed, and thus the outcome. The long term consequences of that could also have been a completely different world.
Or if there had just been a few more cats on trade ships from Asia, the Black Death could have been avoided or at least lessened in spread.
Pretty off-topic question : how would one find the meme with the girl looking bored ? What'a the official name ? I would like to get a hi-res version of it
… and yet, without Persians, Christianity would have died before it began as the Neo-Babylonians were absolutely brutal to their slaves and had destroyed the Temple of Solomon when they conquered Judea.
Cyrus the Great remains the only Messiah of the Jewish people who was not Jewish himself for three things:
1) Considered the Wrath of God upon the Babylonians.
2) Freed the slaves.
3) Escorted the Judeans home and rebuilt the Temple of Solomon (in exchange for fealty… joining the Persians gave you autonomy of government and religion.)
If not for this timely intervention Judaism may have died out then and there before Christianity or Islam could fracture from it.
Zoroastrianism, alongside Judaism as two of the oldest organized religions still practiced, also passed on the idea of an evil force opposing the good creator which would give Christianity the origin of Satan/Lucifer (depending on the interpretation) as a rival to God.
They were key to our current historical timeline no matter how demonized they were by the Greeks.
This is some typical grand narrativist bullshit. Same mfers who claim that there is a direct line between the ancient greeks and modern European culture
"See, if the Persians had won, you might be allowed to own property and vote. And don't get me started on all the Injun paganism we'd be putting up with, or how the damn Negroes would have been left in Africa on account of slavery being frowned upon."
Another illuminating Nixon story:
https://www.history.com/articles/richard-nixon-campaign-funds-wwii-poker
Tl;dr: Despite his quaker upbringing, while in the Navy, Nixon learned to gamble and made large amount of money.
I feel like a good poker face is mandatory for a President.
Meanwhile, the current U.S president has more of a Joker face
And a trump card
He is a card, no discussion there :P
Obligatory: https://youtu.be/doZE4Yqog5I?si=OkLDaaI79JGWWfEf
Somebody should tell him his Joker makeup is peach, not bleach.
Maybe someone has actually. He's been less orange as of late
That and plumbers who don't get caught.
I was expecting a much different end to that sentence when I read "while in the navy"
That guy had quaker roots 😯
Mf had a solid source on his steel cut
It is so difficult to hate Nixon.
Watergate is awful and everything but man, the more I hear about his personal life the more I'm tempted to forget about Watergate. Would've loved to just sit down and have a lengthy conversation with him
There's tons of videos of post-presidential interviews with him.
The contrast with modern politicians is heartbreaking.
Wow I never knew he was raised as a Quaker
The future British Field Marshal Montgomery is said to have similarly bored his dates with long winded monologues about military tactics.
And as expected from a true Brit, most of these monologues were about The battle of Waterloo and Napoleonic wars.
There has to be some form of indoctrination on british schools to make them think napoleon was literally the worst person to ever live
I don't think they do, it's just a bit of national pride to say they were the ones to finally beat one of the greatest military geniused to ever live, so they like to bring it up. Like Russians do with beating the nazis.
True, we are proud of that.
..We beat them as well
Yes, and the Prussians and Russians also beat Napoleon, but I assume that part gets forgotten by Brits just as much as Russians forget about everyone else beating the nazis (and their alliance with them lol).
When people mention historical battles or wars that give them national pride, they often forget about the larger picture, and think they did everything.
Because sure, Russia would have folded without the U.K. and the U.S. in WW2, but without the disaster of the Russian campaign that cost him his experienced army, and the threat of the Prussians closing in, Napoleon probably would have had beef wellington after beating the British at Waterloo.
Yes. You do assume. I can only assume that you are one who likes to exude anti British sentiment. Which is, as ever, the style of the time hahah
What? At which point did I exude any anti-British sentiment?
I like British things, the humor, the TV shows, I'm currently going through a renaissance of reading my old Agatha Christie Miss Marple books. My statement was in general how average people talk about historical events that form their national identity, its hero building, simplifying history to focus on national glory. I don't understand what you could even take offence to there lol.
Don't worry dude, they don't have any reading comprehension skills.
By assuming we forget about our allies!!
I would like to add that while the nefarious Brits, aided by their excellent propaganda, like to claim to be the sole victors that defeated Napoleon...
But more than half of the allied forces under command of Wellington at Waterloo were not British, the Dutch brought about 2/3rds of the force of the Brits and the Hanoverians 1/3rd. With Brunswick and Nassau forces adding another say.. 9k tipping the balance over half. That is without counting the Prussians.
But to compensate I will officially allow the UK to claim shared victory over the Spanish-Habsburg empire in the 80 years war of Dutch independence, I think this is only fair.
To be fair beating the Nazis is pretty much the last thing anyone in England universally agrees was cool and won't stop bringing up.
I hope thats not the case. I remember reading my great grandfather's diary; his notes regarding Dakau.. Lessons that should never be forgotten.
I was referring less to forgetting about the horrifying deeds of the Nazis and more about how it's a foundational aspect of Britishness to constantly crow about our contribution to beating them. Blitz spirit and all that.
I get you. I always held to the British Intelligence, American Steel, and Russian Blood
I’ll have you know our indoctrination into shitting on France goes back way further than Napoleon.
Not seen as close to literally the worst. Just seen as another hypocritical dictator bent on dominating Europe. Of course he was seen as a threat to the UK, which was at war with him for so long. And the UK of course has a historical animosity/rivalry with the French.
Actual overall views on him in the UK are definitely mixed, even if they lean more negative, or more so than elsewhere.
British popular historians and documentaries will be much fairer than, eg, Ridley Scott. But he has literally expressed contempt for historians as a profession.
Nothing will ever beat Voltaire calling historians ‘gossips of the dead.’
I feel like all the talk of Ridley Scott's film being a hit piece on Napoleon has really overegged in people's minds how much the British hate or even think about Napoleon.
Beating him is obviously a point of pride given he essentially ended up being France Final Boss, but he is nowhere near Hitler in terms of how "evil" he is seen. Most people don't even know anything about him other than him being kind of French.
OK this is going in my memory bank forever
"Most people don't even know anything about him other than him being kind of French."
for the british isn't someone being kinda french already the worst there is? /j
I'd say he's a cautionary tale of power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely
no question about that, every monarch/dictator deserves the guillotine, but the coupd a country by just walking in, which is unequivocally based
And then promptly lost it, pointlessly getting people killed in Waterloo lol
When Napoleon was on St. Helena, he spent a lot of time with a British family that lived there. Their daughter, Betsy Balcombe, was terrified of him. She had been taught stories about an ogre named Napoleon who would eat little kids if they didn't behave. She quickly warmed up to him and he basically became like an uncle to her
I think that’s just how the Brits in general view him.
Napoleon isn't even mentioned in our school history curriculums. The average Brit wouldn't be able to tell you anything about him, other than "French leader/general who was short."
I suspect, in Montgomery's case, Napoleonic tactics were just heavily discussed in whichever military academies he attended.
Crimea, by Jove. War was war in those days, and men were men. No room for weaklings. Balaclava for instance. Here, you fellows remember the positions. Now, here, these nuts were the Russians - guns, guns, guns. On the right, the British infantry - the thin red line. There was the commander-in-chief and here was I, at the head of the old 68th. The right was impossible, the left was blocked, behind us was the commander-in-chief. I realised the position in a flash. I said, "The 68th will move forward." Immediately one of my subalterns came to me, shaking. Absolutely shaking. I said, "What's wrong Carruthers?" "I'm afraid to face those guns, sir". I said, "Would you rather face me?" Hmm. He took one look at my face and off he went. Ten minutes later he was shot to pieces at the head of his men, as a soldier should be, eh?
That's because monty's true love was a small Swiss boy
Edit: that was Mountbatton not Montgomery, my bad I got my weird ww2 important british people mixed up
I think Henry Wallace was like it too. He'd ruin dates by taking women to his chicken coop cause he thought it was the most fun thing cause he was just so passionate about farming. (I think he ended up getting married young though i don't think he was as abrasive as Nixon or Monty)
You just gotta find a girl that likes hearing you rant about your obsession. I also blow her back out and cook so maybe not just that.
and they say romance is dead 😍
Long winded. Dumb take too. The Persians, the Moors, the Ottomans, the Mongols. It’s just not easy taking over Western Europe for whatever reason.
Maybe Monty reincarnated as Dankus?
Didn't also go after teenager, though?
Literally me
well, some historian suspect he might have been autistic
They were probably bored cause his tactics blew.
TRUTH
As a glazer of the Persian Empires, I now wish I could have debated 20 year old Richard Nixon… I never thought this day would come.
Hunter S. Thompson - who hated Nixon with a passion - met him once and was shocked to have an enjoyable time discussing football with him and wrote years later that it was clear Nixon genuinely knew what he was talking about.
To add to this, Nixon's campaign manager invited Thompson to ride on the bus and have a 1 on 1 with Nixon. Thompson was understandably confused why they would invite a hostile journalist to have such intimate access. Turns out, Nixon was jonesing to discuss college football and Thompson was the only reporter who was on Nixon's level for following the sport.
Thompson is known for embellishing his reporting (to put it mildly) but I absolutely believe this happened because I can’t imagine him doing a gonzo story to make Nixon look good. If he felt Nixon was just repeating some memorized talking points he’d learned to try and fool voters I’d expect Thompson to have written that.
I imagine this was Thompson the entire time.
I bet some of the other staffers were furious it was even suggested, but then I'm sure Nixon had been going on and on about how no one around him knew shit about college football and he knew damn well that fucking hippie Thompson did
We used to be a proper society
Say, Hunter, do you like football? Do you like nachos?
Joey, Have you ever been in a Turkish prison?
That was Gerald Ford
Nixon looked like a hog and was obscenely paranoid. Despite that the dude became president, the national popularity contest. He was clearly maxed out in charisma to get as far as he did
Well, he wasn’t maxed out - JFK clearly had greater charisma than Nixon. But yeah, no one really gets that far in politics (or other, non-technical careers) without a hefty amount of charisma.
I would argue Nixon has greater charisma since they did have a debate. People who listened to him on the radio said he dominated while those who watched him said he lost. Only reason he lost was because he had severe diarrhea and was sweating like a pig to clench his cheeks.
The NixonFoundation YT channel has a lot of good clips from Nixon later in life, talking about geopolitics and reflecting on other leaders, and it's clear the guy was an incredible statesman despite also being a paranoid POS. He did have a wacky form of charisma for sure.
I remember when Nixon was considered the most evil personality to have been president. Then...well, you know...
He was very intelligent, and despite how poorly he is viewed looking back on his career he was also a highly effective President.
They're gonna study Nixon in the future like a Greek Tragic Hero.
He had all the talent and skill in the world, but his paranoia and insecurities destroyed his greatness.
That's the thing with people you consider enemies....you might have things in common with them, that if they just behaved a little differently, you might actually have good conversations with them, maybe even become friends.
I think about this a lot when it comes to how incels/grifters/etc take over hobby spaces. Like, we like the same things, if they weren't nutjobs we could talk about that sort of stuff instead and maybe even enjoy it. Sigh.
You never know, maybe someone with whom you will debate will be a futur President. World leaders are all a bunch of weirdos, a former History meme reddit user is not out the table.
Dick sure did have an eventful life, that’s the least we can say about him.
Nixon = incel confirmed makes so much sense in retrospect
And he eventually got his queen. He and Pat Nixon were very devoted and close. Whatever scandals his political career had, they had nothing to do with adultery. The man was smitten with his wife, and she stood with him his entire political career. When she died, he was inconsolable, even at the funeral. He didn't survive a year without her. There's hope for us all, fellas.
There's footage of him openly weeping at the funeral, which was broadcast on CNN. Looks like the broadcast was of a remembrance of Nixon broadcast after his death.
Dang, I didn't know there was footage of that. That's a devastated man.
Damn. Respect for that at least.
Dunno anything about his political life myself other than Futurama though 😂
Other than that he didn't go Arroooo like a werewolf in real life. Well... Not that we know of in any case. Maybe in his private life, who knows. She does I guess ❤️
Nixon was a very, very strange figure with a lot of bizarre, but yet fascinating tendencies. For example, apparently a favourite among his dishes, he loved cottage cheese with a spread of ketchup on top.
I'd encourage everyone to take a deeper look into his character (ideally the biography by John A Farell if I had to throw in a shameless plug). He's genuinely one of the most fascinating and captivating personalities of the 20th century, both the good and bad.
I thought he actually hated cottage cheese and so he ate it as almost a form of self flagellation 😂 though maybe I'm just projecting my own feelings towards it
Not quite XD. Yes, he wasn't too fond of the taste itself, but Nixon did appreciate it's nutrional value and ate it out of a desire for longevity and health. It should also be noted that he shared this dietary characteristic with his beloved grandmother Almira Milhous who actually surived to her 90's. Nixon did posess confidence issues and deep insecurities but his admiration for cottage cheese never reflected this.
Speaking off, don't be so harsh on yourself. With c*ttage cheese especially mate. Be a better friend to yourself!
Why did you censor the word “cottage”???
Mmm 😋 I get you...
😧
This is what history will remember on Trump. He will be the Woodrow Wilson and Richard Nixon of the 21st century. He’s a character that makes for interesting history
He's about as tyrannical as Jackson, inept as Buchanan, corrupt as Harding, and gross as Clinton.
deltarune profile picture
Bless be the Rals
Richard Nixon’s worst moment of his presidency is Trump’s Tuesday afternoon. The only “interesting” thing about his character is that it is so rotten and corrupt that it also puts on full display the rotten corruption that’s been growing within US politics (especially amongst the Republican Party).
Nah. Trump doesn't really make for interesting history the same way. He lacks the eloquence.
The Ionians did just fine under Persian rule though, right? Miletus was even the center of a school of philosophy, so they even made meaningful contributions. Unlike some other Greek poleis like the Spartans, who produced no art or thought of any kind in that period
The Persians were notoriously lax rulers. They would have likely been no less so to their Greek subjects had they incorporated all their territory into the empire.
Hence, Greeks under the Achaemenid empire were already doing stuff with philosophy and so on.
Athens would have definitely gotten pillaged, but that was always a punitive goal they set out to achieve from the onset. Which they ultimately did.
It's hard for me to imagine a radically different Greece when the Persians had a hands off approach most of the time.
Its due to the structure of pre-modern Iranian governments in general. The lower in the tiers of administration you get, the more autonomous the population. Iranian rural peasantry for example, did not have lords. Each village's headman acted as their representative before the government and collected taxes, and the owners of the land were barred from harassing or ruling the populace.
Usually the provincial governor/Satrap was centrally assigned, and they in turn assigned regional governors to key cities, and each acted as glorified judges and tax collectors while leaving the people mostly to their own affairs. This is also why Iran remained Iranian despite being ruled by Turks and Mongols for centuries, as they adopted Iranian government and administration and rarely if ever ruled the peasantry directly.
This is just xenophobic fear mongering from the 1800s to justify colonialism. Cuz like you said if yhe Persians won sure things would be different but it's not like we'd be cannibalistic barbarians or whatever. The Persians were really developed their writings just has less cultural influence in the west than the greeks
Yeah exactly.
Who'd have thought that Richard "I am no crook" Nixon would spout lies?
I don’t think he’d be lying though, if the Persians had won it would have had a significant impact on the development of Western thought since it would inevitably have heavier influence from Persia. The idea that Western civilization as we know it would be different had that happened doesn’t seem like a radical stretch to me.
Obviously history would be different, but the ancient Greeks are valued in the Western canon because of the ideas they contributed. And my point was - the Greeks under Persian rule were doing so just fine. So there's no real reason to assume that entire basis disappears if the Greek mainland is also an outlying Persian province for a bit.
I don't really see it suddenly arresting the rise of Rome either, so I think it would be a rather minute change in the long run. But that's not the main point; the main point is that the Greek culture would still exist and do its thing.
Are you being downvoted for saying Nixon lied?
That would be a weird thing to say. Surely a president would never lie to his people?
Either that, or... Yeah I don't know. Maybe "what Nixon said is dumb" was fine, but this comment's "what Nixon said is a lie" was a bridge to far?
So -what do you think Nixon went on about? Genuinely curious.
The stuff that's spelled out in the meme, I assume. Just because I think it's nonsense doesn't mean other people can't talk about it for hours
The Persians had specific beef with the Athenians tho due to the Ionian revolts, the reprisal there would have been particularly bad. After the Ionian revolts, the Persians were so brutal that Herodotus remarked “There are no more Miletians in Miletus”.
Doubtlessly an exageration, as the city was rebuilt two years later and an important city during both Alexanders campaign and the wars of the Diadochi. But yes, losing a war during the ancient period was usually a bad thing. Similar things happened multiple times during the Peloponnensian war and those cities continued existing. It's not a civilisation-ending disaster (if, obviously, a horrible warcrime by modern standards. But that's not the point here)
Scissor me Xerxes!
Scissor me timbers!
Persians were extremely advanced in governing, so much that Alexander the Great just used their system when he took over.
Actually one of his greatest feats is that Persians were not a decaying or weak empire. In theory they were still advancing and growing, arguably at a strong point of their empire and he still defeated them.
We can't really say that Alexander just using a system once he took over was a proof of the system being good. Alexander was a S tier conqueror, but he was a terrible king. Just learn of that one friend of alexander, who constantly pilfered the royal treasury yet was never punished. Or look at the disastrous qualities of the governors he had sent to administrate his new empire.
It is not for nothing that Alexander the great empire collapsed just after his death.
Of course he had very good timing, and was genius enough to fully take advantage of it.
Today I learned I have something in common with Richard Nixon.
When a date is going badly and I want out, I let out my inner history nerd to drive her away.
Arooooo, another successful date!
Probably didn't help that his body was flabby, pasty skin, rrrriddled with phlebitis. A good Republican body.
Rare Nixon W
He actually has a few. The EPA, Title IX, the end of forced assimilation of Native Americans. Nixon simply decided to simultaneously be the worst and best president.
Having Kissinger as Sec of State cancels many of his Ws out
Has he not gotten caught with regard to watergate I think we have a different picture of him
IIRC, he didn't even authorize it and only learned about it afterward. It was the coverup that got him, not the initial break in (and it turned out to be entirely unneeded; Nixon absolutely crushed McGovern. Only Massachusetts went for the latter, and Nixon won the popular vote with a staggering 60.7%.
I'd blame the mess on G.G. Liddy, who watched too many James Bond movies and really wanted to go around committing spy crimes just like on TV, but was too incompetent to do so properly.
His bosses Mitchell & C.R.E.E.P. share the blame for giving Liddy too long of a leash and letting him run free.
"CREEP" is probably also the most unfortunate acronym possible.
Forced on him he actually attempted to kill it by impounding its funding
In a veto proof vote he couldn't oppose it
Thr IHS conducted forced sterilization of native women under him
Thank you. I was like.... Talk about misrepresentation.
Also his take on Russia in the 90s…
https://youtu.be/og0X3-lDQts?si=xwpBid1VbmmOyiUK
Say what you will about the man, but he was genuinely an excellent international relations expert, and really knew what he was talking about.
We could debate whether Western civilization would have been better if Cyrus the Great was its most influential political figure instead of Julius Caesar !
But it wouldn't go well for you !
So let's call it a L !
Very based.
Big L.
Cyrus the Great mogs Greco-Roman influential figures, be it Alexander, Julius Caesar or Augustus!
I’m reasonably confident saying that we’ve had at least one neurodivergent president given that story. I wonder who else? TR strikes me as maybe having high-functioning ADHD.
Wasn't JFK bipolar?
A mate of mine brought a girl home once and while the three of us were sitting there he segued from a story about his holiday in Jordan to a discussion of Israel's failings, except he kept saying "the Jews."
I've never seen a woman go from 100 to 0 faster.
This is the internet. We all now a few women who would go home with him after a talk like that.
I thought this was a typo for ‘rather than Romans’ for a bit and it still made sense
Ah, shit. I would have enjoyed a date with Richard Nixon.
same
Did anybody ask Ancient Greek Cities to be called Western Civilization
In Plutarch they often describe Persia as "oriental" (Eastern), so sure. But that's from a Roman perspective.
He courted Pat for a while before she agreed to date him. And when I say he courted her, he used to chauffeur her to dates with other men before she finally relented and agreed to date him.
Richard Nixon trying to be normal in literally any aspect of his life challenge impossible.
Hot take: the Achaemenids taking over Greece have been pretty neat.
Um... the Persians did conquer the Greeks?
Such a vapid thing to say. I mean, its correct, but so is the claim that every major war involving Europe would have changed the west as we know it.
Hell, if Franz Ferdinands driver hadn't gotten creative with his route, it is likely that the time table and possible alliances during WW1 would have been changed, and thus the outcome. The long term consequences of that could also have been a completely different world.
Or if there had just been a few more cats on trade ships from Asia, the Black Death could have been avoided or at least lessened in spread.
Its all historical butterfly theory.
Wow he just like me fr
So, the alternative was speeches about romance?
That doesn't sound that sexy either tbh
I don't understand, is this Persian empire thing a copypasta? Some guy posted a meme about a manga with leonidas on it
This is also me
Weird. I have been assured that the most attractive quality in a man is not a handsome face, but passion in any particular topic.
That streak ended with Pat.
The guy sounds like a legend.
Nixon was the realest one of them all. There’s a reason only one President came back to rule Earth in Futurama
Actual Nixon W
In most ways Persia was a freer society then Greek society. Sparta vs Persia the horrific oppressive slavers the Lacedaemonians are the evils ones.
Look I know everyone is always having autism these days but if this is remotely true Nixon was autistic.
History would have been a lot more based if the Persians had won. They were clearly the cooler alternative.
Pretty off-topic question : how would one find the meme with the girl looking bored ? What'a the official name ? I would like to get a hi-res version of it
Funny, the blond in the meme looks a bit like Pat!
Also, that Dick Nixon photoshop for the guy is pretty on.
Romance
Same.
The only way I might vote republican
This is very funny. Mad respect for them staying friends lmao
… and yet, without Persians, Christianity would have died before it began as the Neo-Babylonians were absolutely brutal to their slaves and had destroyed the Temple of Solomon when they conquered Judea.
Cyrus the Great remains the only Messiah of the Jewish people who was not Jewish himself for three things:
1) Considered the Wrath of God upon the Babylonians.
2) Freed the slaves.
3) Escorted the Judeans home and rebuilt the Temple of Solomon (in exchange for fealty… joining the Persians gave you autonomy of government and religion.)
If not for this timely intervention Judaism may have died out then and there before Christianity or Islam could fracture from it.
Zoroastrianism, alongside Judaism as two of the oldest organized religions still practiced, also passed on the idea of an evil force opposing the good creator which would give Christianity the origin of Satan/Lucifer (depending on the interpretation) as a rival to God.
They were key to our current historical timeline no matter how demonized they were by the Greeks.
chad Nixon is nightmare fuel
This is some typical grand narrativist bullshit. Same mfers who claim that there is a direct line between the ancient greeks and modern European culture
...there is one though?
Only insofar as people in the 1800s made one. Theres 2.5k years inbetween multiple different empires religions and cultural waves
A direct link that spans 2500 years, yes
"See, if the Persians had won, you might be allowed to own property and vote. And don't get me started on all the Injun paganism we'd be putting up with, or how the damn Negroes would have been left in Africa on account of slavery being frowned upon."
Persian Empire did indeed have slaves referred to as bandaka
Xenophon also mentions in his book Anabasis that slavery did indeed exist