Lol, pre-joseon, relationship between other Asian country were pretty much like this one way or another, wasn't it? It really was send tribute until you are strong enough to demand tribute.
Well, sorta-ish. It was basically trade between governments. IE, China would recive "tribute", and in return they would give "gifts".
Or, they might recieve a "gift" but call it "tribute" back home.
Indeed. It resulted in interesting situations like an official at the Han court circa 33-7 B.C. observing that they were receiving "tribute" from places like Kashmir that had no tributary relation with China that were delivered by people who were neither noble nor state officials, but bore a suspicious similarity to ordinary merchants, or Sogdians trying to lever their way into the tributary system in spite of what a Han official bemoaned as a lack of due respect for Han authority - what they wanted was a piece of the trade in gold and silk.
During times of Chinese military weakness and Xiongnu strength after 198 BCE, tribute missions from the Xiongnu also had all the feel of pay-offs as well: the Xiongnu might arrive with their "tribute," and the Han court would repay it with "gifts" of twice the value of the tribute or more. This was in addition to the system of marriage treaties, where the Han court would send princesses in marriage to the Xiongnu (or women they claimed were "princesses") along with lavish "marriage gifts."
I feel like Europe had a more "inner pride" kind of deal.
If you were conquered or usurped you would become a puppet or absorbed and from then on you would have to give respect to the guy in charge, while always looking to get independence.
They also had different religious interactions when it comes to rulership.
Note that normal "tribute" from Southeast Asian nations (mostly to get permission to trade with China) were low in value, and the return "gift" from China (ceramics, silk, etc.) were higher in value as well. It's the superior feeling of having vassals paying respect that matter!
Yep, the Han empire (one after Chin, one before the romance of three kingdom period) also had to pay tribute to Xiongnu for I think about 60 years before Han organized their shit and beat the Xiongnu
More like arrogance that anyone not fighting you was gonna be your vassal. When the british brought diplomatic gifts to the Qing dynasty in order to open trade and show off their technology, the Qing diplomats thought it was tribute and were confused when the british asked to open trade relations or establish embassies as if they were equals
It's a bit different here though since Baekje was certainly stronger than Yamoto at this point. Not to mention Silla and Baekje were RICH. This is more send gift to help against real enemies (Other two Samhan countries)
This sword bears an inscription stating that it was granted by the Baekje Kingdom to Japan.
Initially, the Japanese side claimed this artifact was something they had tribute from or presented to Baekje.
Due to these conflicting narratives, I concluded that the relationship between the two nations was one of equivalence, where both sides considered themselves the superior party.
Upon review, please be advised that the Japanese clothing shown in the picture you referenced is widely argued to be an incorrect historical representation
I'm reminded of a video of a cat grooming a bunny where it was noted that feline social behavior means the dominant one grooms, while in rabbit social hierarchy, the dominant one is groomed and noting both the rabbit and cat were probably seeing themselves as the dominant partner.
Nah, it was considered high esteem as it was still a very expensive piece of art. It would have been extremely hard to make, had gold-inlayed inscriptions, and was/is held as an important relic in Isonokami Shrine since antiquity
How come I'm just now learning of this sword? That this looks so cool no matter how impractical it looks if you actually fought with it but dammit I love the look of it
Baekje was originally a nation formed when the royal family of Goguryeo (Buyeo) migrated south and absorbed the Mahan confederation of states in the southern part of the Korean Peninsula. Why isn't it the ancestral state of modern Koreans? And before "Mahan", there was a confederation called "Jin".
The majority of Baekje's people were indigenous people who had lived since the "Jin" era, with the royal family being immigrants descended from above.
The ancestors of modern Koreans are from all the nations that once existed on the Korean Peninsula. They're not limited to just one nation. Haha, that's stupid.
Lol, pre-joseon, relationship between other Asian country were pretty much like this one way or another, wasn't it? It really was send tribute until you are strong enough to demand tribute.
Well, sorta-ish. It was basically trade between governments. IE, China would recive "tribute", and in return they would give "gifts".
Or, they might recieve a "gift" but call it "tribute" back home.
Indeed. It resulted in interesting situations like an official at the Han court circa 33-7 B.C. observing that they were receiving "tribute" from places like Kashmir that had no tributary relation with China that were delivered by people who were neither noble nor state officials, but bore a suspicious similarity to ordinary merchants, or Sogdians trying to lever their way into the tributary system in spite of what a Han official bemoaned as a lack of due respect for Han authority - what they wanted was a piece of the trade in gold and silk.
During times of Chinese military weakness and Xiongnu strength after 198 BCE, tribute missions from the Xiongnu also had all the feel of pay-offs as well: the Xiongnu might arrive with their "tribute," and the Han court would repay it with "gifts" of twice the value of the tribute or more. This was in addition to the system of marriage treaties, where the Han court would send princesses in marriage to the Xiongnu (or women they claimed were "princesses") along with lavish "marriage gifts."
Truly "face" have been the corner stone of east Asian culture since the beginning
I mean, wasn't it the same for feudal Europe too?
I feel like Europe had a more "inner pride" kind of deal.
If you were conquered or usurped you would become a puppet or absorbed and from then on you would have to give respect to the guy in charge, while always looking to get independence.
They also had different religious interactions when it comes to rulership.
Note that normal "tribute" from Southeast Asian nations (mostly to get permission to trade with China) were low in value, and the return "gift" from China (ceramics, silk, etc.) were higher in value as well. It's the superior feeling of having vassals paying respect that matter!
Basically to prove your legitimacy, like your right to rule. Especially for Yongle's case.
Yep, the Han empire (one after Chin, one before the romance of three kingdom period) also had to pay tribute to Xiongnu for I think about 60 years before Han organized their shit and beat the Xiongnu
More like arrogance that anyone not fighting you was gonna be your vassal. When the british brought diplomatic gifts to the Qing dynasty in order to open trade and show off their technology, the Qing diplomats thought it was tribute and were confused when the british asked to open trade relations or establish embassies as if they were equals
It's a bit different here though since Baekje was certainly stronger than Yamoto at this point. Not to mention Silla and Baekje were RICH. This is more send gift to help against real enemies (Other two Samhan countries)
This sword bears an inscription stating that it was granted by the Baekje Kingdom to Japan.
Initially, the Japanese side claimed this artifact was something they had tribute from or presented to Baekje.
Due to these conflicting narratives, I concluded that the relationship between the two nations was one of equivalence, where both sides considered themselves the superior party.
Upon review, please be advised that the Japanese clothing shown in the picture you referenced is widely argued to be an incorrect historical representation
Where did you get it anyway
I'm reminded of a video of a cat grooming a bunny where it was noted that feline social behavior means the dominant one grooms, while in rabbit social hierarchy, the dominant one is groomed and noting both the rabbit and cat were probably seeing themselves as the dominant partner.
You're telling me the sword written in several fictions and a few legends was based on a Korean gift that wasn't even viewed in high esteem??
Nah, it was considered high esteem as it was still a very expensive piece of art. It would have been extremely hard to make, had gold-inlayed inscriptions, and was/is held as an important relic in Isonokami Shrine since antiquity
That sword got seven spells and its good against mobs.
Very good for demon slaying, I will add.
Ancient Korea: “have this badass sword”
Ancient Japan: “thank you for this badass sword”
Before even reading the text i thought i was looking at a cactus and now i can't unsee it.
Now I can't, either. >:(
The fuck we gonna do with this? - also the Yamato probably
So that's where that came from. Pretty cool.
How come I'm just now learning of this sword? That this looks so cool no matter how impractical it looks if you actually fought with it but dammit I love the look of it
Meta Knight's sword is sorta inspired from it, so...
This sword shows up in a lot of Japanese media they have the Koreans to thank for it
Baekje are not modern day Koreans
What's with this stupid comment?
Baekje was originally a nation formed when the royal family of Goguryeo (Buyeo) migrated south and absorbed the Mahan confederation of states in the southern part of the Korean Peninsula. Why isn't it the ancestral state of modern Koreans? And before "Mahan", there was a confederation called "Jin".
The majority of Baekje's people were indigenous people who had lived since the "Jin" era, with the royal family being immigrants descended from above.
Look at a map of Korea and discover its history.
One of the coolest swords tbh.
So this is the origin of the worst design swords in gaming
poor korea
How? In Baekje's perspective this was a gift to an amazing ally to help against their real enemy (Silla and Goguryeo)
oh ok
Baekje were enemies to the modern day Korean ancestors (Silla).
The ancestors of modern Koreans are from all the nations that once existed on the Korean Peninsula. They're not limited to just one nation. Haha, that's stupid.
Ah shoot, I didn't bring the Immortal Blade....
*Flasbacks from Ace Attorney 3 *