I’m not a big fan of Hancock, but to be fair Hawass is just as bad, he thinks he’s the only person ever that’s allowed to make discoveries about Egypt or the pyramids and he seems like an incredible egotistical person, he’s actually my go to example of “old guard”
I met Hawass many many years ago at a book signing in London (Harrods). I was a young teenager and obsessed with Egyptology and was a fan of his work.
I purchased his expensive book and stood in line. When I approached him he first made a fuss about how to write my name and then refused to answer a question when I asked him what his advice was for young people interested in Egyptology.
I think he was upset because he had arrived in the UK to ask for the return of the Rosetta stone and they didn't return it to Egypt.
Biggest let down in my life. Still have his signed book though.
We gotta start considering the possibility that they already know what’s down there. Idk how they know or why they know, but someone has positioned Hawass as the GateKeeper of this historical discovery in Egypt. Like this could be the GREATEST archaeological discovery in Modern History and this ONE GUY is in the way. Like cmon y’all. This is a bad Indiana Jones Movie at this point.🤨🤷🏾♂️
The Edgar Casey Foundation basically supported Hawass all through his schooling and everything. Casey predicted things below the Sphinx, etc., so I wouldn't doubt Hawass already knows what's down there to some degree.
Okay, that’s one objective fact that get omitted. I’m not being contrite with you either. I guess I’m just tired of the same redundant conspiracy theories with the same unimaginative speculation. I don’t like doing too much speculation because that’s a one way ticket to Kayne Krazytown. Maybe you might know, but have these same archaeological teams tried the same scans at the other various pyramids structures across the globe. I mean that’s my objective fact. It’s not a coincidence that these structures are around the world placed in strategic positions. I feel like disclosure within its self is a Psy opp. Thank you for responding.❤️
I have been wandering about this. I wonder if their is some other powerful spiritual being. That has been bound to that site. Even with Gobekli Tepi being buried as well. That is the only thing that would really make it reasonable to gatekeep.
I never considered another “powerful being”. Only Alien stuff. But yeah, that is extremely plausible . What’s kinda enraging me is the lack of outside the box thinking for the other ancient architecture around the world. There are other pyramids on lay lines. Go scan underground of those other Pyramids if Hawass continues his pesky crusade.
What’s crazy is finding out how much of the Grand Canyon is blocked off to the general public. Antarctica is a give cause it’s permafrost. Once it melts good and bad things will happen. I just want these communities investigating stuff like this to just say “F” it and brainstorm new ideas from the evidence that is publicly available. Like sealed off spirits. If that’s the case just leave it be there’s other stuff to discover
Hancock is maybe undermining mainstream science and pushing pseudoscience. None of what he pushes is actually harmful, though. It's about as harmful as someone wondering if the moon is made of cheese. Most attacks against him are because he challenges institutions and doesn't accept existing scientific consensus.
Hawass is worse because he proves we need people like Hancock.
Hawass buries science, steals discoveries, misrepresents things. He wants a specific narrative that reinforces his beliefs, and he only allows research that aligns with that.
Without Hancock, would the scientists Hawass silenced ever have come forward? Hancock was basically such a significant thorn in Hawass' side that others felt safe to criticize Hawass with their legitimate concerns.
Agreed. Saying "as bad as" is also a huge stretch. At most, Graham is just "too open minded" for regular academia, Hawass on the other hand, he's just like an archeology mob lord.
I tend to side with open mindedness, after all, our entire civlization would be in a vastly different place if it wasn't for people who challenged the norm.
Alas, I digress. At most Graham could be wrong about many things, but at least for all his theories he invites study and collaboration.
He actually brought a lot of attention to Gobekli Tepi, which pushes back our time scale by tens of thousands of years, and he has shown we were in the Amazon much longer than expected, and he had a team using LIDAR which showed roads and human construction deep in the jungle where we never knew civilization was.
He does good work, and academia does the same thing with him that it does with the anyone who has alternative theories despite how accurate they are
No he doesn’t. He looks at recent discoveries and makes some fantastical bullshit and new age, et al, followers call him open minded. That’s not doing academic work. He can’t even speak/read a language related to his ‘work’.
I hate to come across as a Hawass defender, but when you put the phd in Egypt vs the sociology undergrad, and your weapon is that the non-expert is ‘open minded’ as a reason to prefer them, then youre pissing outside the pot. You’ve missed the point completely of how knowledge accumulation works, or the authority on a subject by someone who knows more than you and holds several degees in the field.
I don't believe anything you said goes against what I said. Like, one of your criticisms is that he isn't a polyglot.
Can't argue against credentials but you don't need a PhD to travel to locations, speak to experts there and piece together a puzzle. It's good we have people like him to explore other possibilities especially when there's good evidence for it that the mainstream would rather ridicule and hand wave off. Thanks for your input!
He's wrong about everything he's proposed. He doesn't have any evidence, he's not a scientist and he has a big sook every time he gets called out on it.
All you need to do is watch his crashout after getting humiliated by Flint Dibble on Joe Rogan to see how much of a charlatan he is.
At worst he misspoke about the number of shipwrecks.
Flint made Graham look like a fucking bitch and Hancock has been doing damage control ever since, constantly attacking Flint's character because he can't match him intellectually.
While i love listening to him, i 100% agree with you, he is forcing something that doesn't add up, if you have some archeological background. My good friend is an archeologist, we have legthy debates around this, and he has all the arguments on his side. I still like hancock as a form of entertainment though.
The one thing that i agree with is that something is up with some lost civilisation in the past, but there is no evidence on where and why, it's all speculation.
Yeah I used to think this sub was r/conspiracy without the antisemitism and with critical thinking skills - a lot of the top posts of all time are people rationally discussing and debunking weird shit.
Unfortunately it looks like it's just r/conspiracy without the antisemitism (maybe).
The fact that people listen to Graham Hancock and think, "Yeah, this guy knows what he's talking about. He's been around for 30 years and is yet to be right about anything, but he's definitely more knowledgeable than actual experts!" is fucking mind-blowing.
I wouldn't be surprised if people started quoting Dan Richards at this point.
The pyramids, the labyrinth and the 1000+ ton single cut stonework’s in Egypt. Gobekle tepe and the other tepes. Peru.. the list goes on, not to mention the stories all the cultures tell about their ancestors.
Hancock is more than just "too open minded" dude is actively dismissive of proper archaeology in lieu of "out there" explanations. He doesn't want to hear how the pyramids were actually built, he wants to insist it's aliens. He already does this any time we come up with a proper explanation for why anything about the pyramids are the way they are.
Fuck Hancock and fuck everyone who plays fast and loose with archaeology just so they can pretend things made by ancient people was actually aliens.
And if you're a fan of Milo Rossi then I highly recommend Dedunking on YouTube for some solid takedowns of Milo and more down to earth takes on some of Graham Hancock's works.
People would hate really hard on him. Hancock delegitimizes people rather than arguments, which predictably results in harassment — whether he explicitly calls for it or not. He is simply just an asshole and a bad human being.
This is misinformation. Not only is Zawi Hawass not the only prominent egyptologist, he is also on record of promoting a more liberal stance for the egyptian ministry of antiquities and tourism to grant more research opportunities.
It is true that he has a past of affiliations with corrupt policies and that he has grafted his name on publications he had only cursory involvement with, but that does not mean he is this smothering presence.
In turn, there is no fucking reason to drill under the pyramids because we know how the plateau is composed geologically. Hancock is just abusing the extremely irrigid assertions by one italian ‘researcher’ about garbled and AI processed radar imagery that is known to not be able to penetrate ground that far. This is Hancock’s usual anti-establishment narrative to make it seem like he is the only level-headed position in this batshit crazy discourse.
Honestly Hancock has been pretty bang on about this topic throughout the years so I'd back him. It looks like they need to repeat the technology in Turkey to confirm it works correctly with more data. Once that's confirmed drilling must be done because the data they got is actually insane for the history of the pyramids.
Hancock doesn’t provide evidence for his claims. He’s trying to sell you information for his own benefit. It’s mind-boggling. This isn’t obvious to everyone. He’s no better than Billy Carson.
I think Hancock genuinely believes though, in the sense that he is curious and has a drive to investigate anything that could be new or interesting. Having read a book and listened to him speak I don't believe he's grifting. Of course people need to make a living but he's selling books, not magical healing crystals to people.
They are both psedoscientists that exist to take money from fools. They should not be allowed anywhere near an important archeological site with a drill, god only knows what damage they could do. Also Lidar these days is very good and can and does tell us a lot about what is down there. They just don't want to accept the evidence that their theory is untrue.
I agree non invasive tools are getting really good and keep improving, much nicer tool than drilling unless the scientific consensus is that drilling is warranted with rationales
On the flip side, imagine being the eminent expert about something in your country and some wahoo with crackpot ideas thinks they know more than you because they are decent storytellers. Sorry, I would’ve told Hancock to fk off too.
Not an endorsement of Hawass. Def an ego asshole, but at least his wealth or relevance doesn’t depend on making up new shit with impressively vivid imagination every couple of years.
Zahi Hawass is a wannabe Dr. Jones .Also complicit in hiding multiple finds and or taking credit shortly after, now he is saying there is nothing where the Italians found the latest discovery. Glad he’s almost gone .
Yes at the scientist meeting where all the scientists of various fields gather and decide what evidence to ignore they definitely all decided to pretend that the science is bullshit because they all collectively don't like the idea.
Graham Hancock is totally out to lunch about many things. You can take like ten minutes and listen/read to any geologist or archaeologist go through the ancient civilization theory point by point of you want, I'm definitely not going to do it here.
And as much as people in these types of subs want to believe, science isn't some centralized cabal that fervently upholds the status quo regardless of evidence. New ideas are accepted if they have actual evidence to support them.
You're going to get crucified for this around here, but you're completely right. Not to say science doesn't sometimes have its own issues with dogma, but people want to make it into some sinister conspiracy when it's a much more banal kind of thing.
Also I feel like out of all the sciences, archaeology is maybe the most willing and able to accept radical new theories if there's actual evidence, because we honestly know so little about things beyond a certain point. It's just that the kind of theories people like Hancock are spewing are largely BS.
Regardless of how much of a hack Graham is, Zahi Hawass is a gatekeeping crook. Only he is allowed to make discoveries (alongside whomever actually made the discovery and paid him a boatload of money to share the claim). Egypt is corrupt and Zahi Hawass is 100% on board with the corruption.
TLDR: Graham Hancock proposes a simple test: a narrow borehole to insert a fibre-optic camera at identified anomaly points, insisting this would be safe and decisive, and suggests first validating the method at known underground sites. If confirmed, he speculates the structures could relate to ancient Egyptian ideas of a literal subterranean underworld.
Aren't there some amazing non-invasive underground imaging technologies like sonar that could do the scanning without the need for drilling?
I feel like if I asked to drill directly under the Whitehouse because I've a hunch something weird is there, I'd get denied too. Not because they're gatekeeping some esoteric knowledge, but because it's insane.
It feels like he KNOWS he can't get permission, so he's dying on that hill as a martyr to his fans
It's not the same, but it IS a comparison to make the point.
Yes, Machu Picchu would be a closer comparison. Or someone wanting to take ALL the Nazca lines in Peru home to "take a closer look" on the promise they'd bring them back and put them where they found them
Even if it's a completely valid technique, not allowing anyone and everyone to do invasive investigation on a national historic site isn't automatically a conspiracy - it's absolutely reasonable
The Italian scientist already said they can do it through a shaft that is not under the pyramids but connects to the structure underneath. They just need to remove the dirt from it. Objectively, no reason not to give them permission to do it. But, of course, gatekeepers have different agendas.
If I wanted to go down and start digging under the pyramids, or the houses of parliament, or the statue of Liberty - how likely is it that I'd be given permission?
And would all of those that don't give me permission be gatekeeping? And what could their agenda be?
Ugh, enough with this. The technology has been used for years in many commercial and scientific industries, such as mining, prospecting, earth and climate research, etc.
The Italian team even did scans over existing ruins and underground structures to show it could also work for archeology.
People are just stuck with the initial baseless opinion caused by the wave of articles speaking of "unproven technology" and such.
Right - PART OF the method used for those nonsense scans is used for shallow impressions. The problem with the claims from those involved is the data gathered by the scans do NOT reflect the data gathered, the claims made, or the renderings they presented.
The ‘see - it works when we scan known structures!’ doesn’t pan out if you’ve ever been even a little bit decent at spot the difference. They claim mm level precision and it’s nowhere near. The images are a mess and hardly match the known structures. So they just prove their own methods and claims are inaccurate.
Also the main scientist on this project just let his patent lapse, yet claims there’s a huge money to be made. It doesn’t make sense.
No matter how much you want to believe this stuff, it’s nonsense.
Graham's whole point is that science should be open to suggestions and new information. Archeology and other sciences have refused new info time and time again throughout history with people like Graham being lambasted as crazy. Nope, he's a journalist. His job is to find and verify information and share it which is exactly what he's been doing.
Hawas is a legendary conman and fraud from the pyramids to the sphinx and beyond, he likes a show and to be the centre or attention, but the along comes Graham and Hawas isn't the centre anymore.
Anyone who thinks there isn't more buried in the sand needs to go back to school and anyone who won't scan or dig or even look at that data and say that there "may" be something there is no scientist or archaeologist either.
There is more to Egypt and many many ancient sites that we have been allowed to know because it doesn't fit with the narrative people have built their careers on selling.
Graham is a rehashing of 1970s archeological dreams. He actively ignores the science and posits these ideas to draw in gullible people who find actual archeology and associated sciences either too hard to understand or boring.
It might be a “broken clock is right twice a day” thing. I got a book on the Mexican pyramids years ago expecting it to be all silly ancient aliens type stuff, but the book is NOTHING like that at all.
It was all about serious mathematics and science, and talked about how even the pyramids in Mexico that we see are actually newer pyramids built atop MUCH older pyramids from much older civilizations that we know very little about.
It was actually a fascinating read… I think it’s called “mysteries of the Mexican pyramids” by Peter Tompkins if anyone is interested in learning more.
I think you have to separate (more like sift) through the arguments and ignore the person with someone like Hancock. Has he been a proponent of batshit theories. Yes. Does he still have some good points. Also, yes. The problem with Hancock is not only him, it is the people who gravitate towards him (some of whom are even crazier).
To ask an established archaeologist or egyptologist to comment on Hancock you might as well have grown a second head as far as they are concerned and I don't blame them😂
I vaguely remember listening to this interview with a geologist in that circle and all was well and good and theoretical until he started mentioning how his wife was into some serious occult stuff and my immediate reaction was, ah, right, that explains it.
If these alternative researchers could just stay on the right side of the insanity line consistently 😂 it would help their cause immensely and lead to more productive outcomes. Some of them do a better job of that than others.
It’s not that sometimes he’s right and sometimes he’s wrong, it’s that he uses basic obvious truths to appear as though he’s acting in good faith when he tears through good science to push his nonsense agenda.
Graham is not a scientist. He is a paradigm pusher. He has his theory and then goes looking for things to support it. Should any half-cocked wackjob be able to demand what sovereign countries do with their archeological sites?
Cherry pick maybe, but he isn't pulling shit out of his ass the whole time and completely speculating based on vibes. He has used various different archelogical and scientific discoveries to put his theory across and urges more open mindness or willingness to do more work, which really is not a bad thing. A lot of these sites do need more research and field work and whether or not they disocver anything supportive to his ideas matters not if it means we learn more about these ancient.
Almost every site he visits needs more investigation, and it's a solid noooooo when people try. Gobekli Tepi is only a tiny piece of the entire settlement, which was purposefully buried to preserve it. During a time when we suspected humans were still roaming, instead it shows we were building monuments, which is tens of thousands of years of human development
He is a gatekeeper, probably from a long line of gatekeepers. Whatever is down there, they dont want it be known.
Which is crazy if you think about it, because from the money perspective it would increase tourism, more funding for research etc. which means more money for the economy.
Same with Peru where excavations and cave exploring is off limits
The governments dont want you to know whats down there, our whole history is being gatekeeped,
because if it was about money and cultural herritage, it would have been public accessible already.
Alright coughs * now proceeds to put on crown, made of very shiny high priced aluminum foil, and puts it on my own head,. Unless the technology under the ground they already know, but don't know how to make corporate shareholders max profit yearly without disrupting the working peasants. Puts crown down gently, until next moment, to enlighten the masses* .......sorry I had some beer tonight. ,🤣🤣
Or... And here me out here... People from sensitive national historic sites don't want 1000s of people doing weird things to their site - based on a hunch.
„Because he doesn’t understand the science behind it.“ Think about that for a second. That is literally the dumbest reason you could give. What is it even supposed to mean?
Graham Hancock tells compelling stories about a civilization we would absolutely expect to find evidence for—yet never do—while insisting that the absence of such evidence is proof of a conspiracy rather than a flaw in his reasoning.
Graham Hancock doesn’t just reject academic criticism, he personally attacks critics, portraying professional archaeologists as corrupt, dishonest, or malicious, even when those critics are simply explaining basic methodology that he is too stupid to understand. This guy is just a freakin fraud.
He has to say that he doesn't want to say Hawas is a corrupt human being, and is known for intentionally hiding stuff to be able to take credit for it, which is an established fact at this point.
Hawass is so comically stuborn that, at this point, I think he's the last of an ancient line of priests tasked with protecting the truth of the Fifth Element (or whatever ancient secret) from getting out.
The pillars under the pyramid paper was legitimately dumb as fuck lmao. The science was interesting but the data was bad, their interpretation was worse, and their conclusion was absolutely dumb. It'd be like if I were to cook a burger and then claim that the burger means turtles are doing calculus in their sleep. The conclusions had nothing to do with the data.
"The scientists don't understand the science as well as i do. That's why nearly 100% of them disagree with my zany conclusions. Theyre just dogmatists too busy worshipping at the altar of Scientism. It's just a coincidence that the only way to test my hypothesis is by doing stuff "they" won't let me do. All im asking is to dig up the Giza plateau. Is that too much to ask? The entire field of research is a vast conspiracy to suppress The Truth."
Erich Von Daniken said exactly the same thing about the scientific establishment over 50 years ago in his book Chariots of the Gods and he’s been proven right about everything. /s
If Graham was concerned with “the science behind” extraordinary claims, he’d have run out of sensationalist claims right about the time he started his career. I’m guessing the only way to research these underground structures just so happens to involve paying a bunch of money to this pathetic conman
Hawass isn’t really an archeologist; he’s a narcissistic PR man who craves attention and recognition. Read Ahmed Osman’s book, The Lost City of the Exodus.
I love high strangeness stuff but the ancient aliens crap that Hancock peddles is just a modern version of the Nazi Archaeologists hunt for the aryan race across the globe. Except instead of white people building everything it’s white aliens. He has no interest in actually submitting his work for peer review so he just writes adventure books about this grand conspiracy he’s facing. He treats other people’s culture like a DnD manual for his fantasy stories.
He never talks about aliens. He thinks that human civilization has been around longer than what was originally theorized and with structures being found that are older and older, he might be correct
Compelling evidence of advancement within Egyptian civilization has been suppressed and minimized for years. Your theory is just another set dressing for the mainstream narrative.
Did Hawass reply by saying “it’s in my book”?
He’s already investigated every piece of sand don’t you know
It’s so infuriating to have such a clown in charge of something so important
He's a paid shill.
There's always a book !
I’m not a big fan of Hancock, but to be fair Hawass is just as bad, he thinks he’s the only person ever that’s allowed to make discoveries about Egypt or the pyramids and he seems like an incredible egotistical person, he’s actually my go to example of “old guard”
"Old Gatekeeper"
I met Hawass many many years ago at a book signing in London (Harrods). I was a young teenager and obsessed with Egyptology and was a fan of his work.
I purchased his expensive book and stood in line. When I approached him he first made a fuss about how to write my name and then refused to answer a question when I asked him what his advice was for young people interested in Egyptology.
I think he was upset because he had arrived in the UK to ask for the return of the Rosetta stone and they didn't return it to Egypt.
Biggest let down in my life. Still have his signed book though.
Did you ever end up in Egyptology?
Nope. Unfortunately I didn't.
Well I hope it all turned out for the best anyways 🤝
We gotta start considering the possibility that they already know what’s down there. Idk how they know or why they know, but someone has positioned Hawass as the GateKeeper of this historical discovery in Egypt. Like this could be the GREATEST archaeological discovery in Modern History and this ONE GUY is in the way. Like cmon y’all. This is a bad Indiana Jones Movie at this point.🤨🤷🏾♂️
The Edgar Casey Foundation basically supported Hawass all through his schooling and everything. Casey predicted things below the Sphinx, etc., so I wouldn't doubt Hawass already knows what's down there to some degree.
Okay, that’s one objective fact that get omitted. I’m not being contrite with you either. I guess I’m just tired of the same redundant conspiracy theories with the same unimaginative speculation. I don’t like doing too much speculation because that’s a one way ticket to Kayne Krazytown. Maybe you might know, but have these same archaeological teams tried the same scans at the other various pyramids structures across the globe. I mean that’s my objective fact. It’s not a coincidence that these structures are around the world placed in strategic positions. I feel like disclosure within its self is a Psy opp. Thank you for responding.❤️
I have been wandering about this. I wonder if their is some other powerful spiritual being. That has been bound to that site. Even with Gobekli Tepi being buried as well. That is the only thing that would really make it reasonable to gatekeep.
I never considered another “powerful being”. Only Alien stuff. But yeah, that is extremely plausible . What’s kinda enraging me is the lack of outside the box thinking for the other ancient architecture around the world. There are other pyramids on lay lines. Go scan underground of those other Pyramids if Hawass continues his pesky crusade.
What’s crazy is finding out how much of the Grand Canyon is blocked off to the general public. Antarctica is a give cause it’s permafrost. Once it melts good and bad things will happen. I just want these communities investigating stuff like this to just say “F” it and brainstorm new ideas from the evidence that is publicly available. Like sealed off spirits. If that’s the case just leave it be there’s other stuff to discover
I would've trashed it once I learned how much of a tool he is.
Zahi Hawass is the "I discovered Egypt" guy. Pretty sure he will claim anything new as his. He is waiting for the dust to settle to make the claim.
Hawass is worse.
Hancock is maybe undermining mainstream science and pushing pseudoscience. None of what he pushes is actually harmful, though. It's about as harmful as someone wondering if the moon is made of cheese. Most attacks against him are because he challenges institutions and doesn't accept existing scientific consensus.
Hawass is worse because he proves we need people like Hancock.
Hawass buries science, steals discoveries, misrepresents things. He wants a specific narrative that reinforces his beliefs, and he only allows research that aligns with that.
Without Hancock, would the scientists Hawass silenced ever have come forward? Hancock was basically such a significant thorn in Hawass' side that others felt safe to criticize Hawass with their legitimate concerns.
I agree with you.
People hating on Graham makes me sad. Especially when Zahi is in the same sentence..
Agreed. Saying "as bad as" is also a huge stretch. At most, Graham is just "too open minded" for regular academia, Hawass on the other hand, he's just like an archeology mob lord.
I tend to side with open mindedness, after all, our entire civlization would be in a vastly different place if it wasn't for people who challenged the norm.
Alas, I digress. At most Graham could be wrong about many things, but at least for all his theories he invites study and collaboration.
I actually agree with you, in fact I own a Graham book, I don’t own any by Hawass, I at least appreciate the open mindedness too.
You’re 100% right.
And the phrase “too open minded for academia” is one of the saddest most accurate things I’ve ever read, too.
How in the world can openness be a bad thing?
“Too open Minded”= just making stuff up for clicks and attention?
He actually brought a lot of attention to Gobekli Tepi, which pushes back our time scale by tens of thousands of years, and he has shown we were in the Amazon much longer than expected, and he had a team using LIDAR which showed roads and human construction deep in the jungle where we never knew civilization was.
He does good work, and academia does the same thing with him that it does with the anyone who has alternative theories despite how accurate they are
No he doesn’t. He looks at recent discoveries and makes some fantastical bullshit and new age, et al, followers call him open minded. That’s not doing academic work. He can’t even speak/read a language related to his ‘work’.
I hate to come across as a Hawass defender, but when you put the phd in Egypt vs the sociology undergrad, and your weapon is that the non-expert is ‘open minded’ as a reason to prefer them, then youre pissing outside the pot. You’ve missed the point completely of how knowledge accumulation works, or the authority on a subject by someone who knows more than you and holds several degees in the field.
His first book on the subject was before goebekli tepi btw
I don't believe anything you said goes against what I said. Like, one of your criticisms is that he isn't a polyglot.
Can't argue against credentials but you don't need a PhD to travel to locations, speak to experts there and piece together a puzzle. It's good we have people like him to explore other possibilities especially when there's good evidence for it that the mainstream would rather ridicule and hand wave off. Thanks for your input!
No that’s avi loeb
He's wrong about everything he's proposed. He doesn't have any evidence, he's not a scientist and he has a big sook every time he gets called out on it.
All you need to do is watch his crashout after getting humiliated by Flint Dibble on Joe Rogan to see how much of a charlatan he is.
Dibble was wrong and misconstrued many things on that show.
At worst he misspoke about the number of shipwrecks.
Flint made Graham look like a fucking bitch and Hancock has been doing damage control ever since, constantly attacking Flint's character because he can't match him intellectually.
While i love listening to him, i 100% agree with you, he is forcing something that doesn't add up, if you have some archeological background. My good friend is an archeologist, we have legthy debates around this, and he has all the arguments on his side. I still like hancock as a form of entertainment though.
The one thing that i agree with is that something is up with some lost civilisation in the past, but there is no evidence on where and why, it's all speculation.
You are downvoted but 100% correct. Wow this sub is loony
Yeah I used to think this sub was r/conspiracy without the antisemitism and with critical thinking skills - a lot of the top posts of all time are people rationally discussing and debunking weird shit.
Unfortunately it looks like it's just r/conspiracy without the antisemitism (maybe).
The fact that people listen to Graham Hancock and think, "Yeah, this guy knows what he's talking about. He's been around for 30 years and is yet to be right about anything, but he's definitely more knowledgeable than actual experts!" is fucking mind-blowing.
I wouldn't be surprised if people started quoting Dan Richards at this point.
You say he hasn’t been right, I say he hasn’t been wrong.
Point to a single shred of proof for this theory then.
The pyramids, the labyrinth and the 1000+ ton single cut stonework’s in Egypt. Gobekle tepe and the other tepes. Peru.. the list goes on, not to mention the stories all the cultures tell about their ancestors.
You've listed ancient sites. I don't think Graham Hancock postulated that they existed and has been proven right.
Here's a four part video series that shreds Graham Hancock's theory to shreds. I suggest you watch it.
Hancock is more than just "too open minded" dude is actively dismissive of proper archaeology in lieu of "out there" explanations. He doesn't want to hear how the pyramids were actually built, he wants to insist it's aliens. He already does this any time we come up with a proper explanation for why anything about the pyramids are the way they are.
Fuck Hancock and fuck everyone who plays fast and loose with archaeology just so they can pretend things made by ancient people was actually aliens.
He never insisted it was aliens. He believes that mankind had civilization longer than what normal academia proposes, and he might be correct
I agree. Ever heard of Milo Rossi? Find him on YouTube if ur a Hancock sceptic .
And if you're a fan of Milo Rossi then I highly recommend Dedunking on YouTube for some solid takedowns of Milo and more down to earth takes on some of Graham Hancock's works.
He isn't just "opened minded" he is a loon.
Cause all he does is complain
People would hate really hard on him. Hancock delegitimizes people rather than arguments, which predictably results in harassment — whether he explicitly calls for it or not. He is simply just an asshole and a bad human being.
A hack verse an egotist?
Pick your own adventure.
How is that "just as bad"? That's next level awful.
Ain't that the truth, I remember seeing him in Egypt documentaries back in the 1990s
This is misinformation. Not only is Zawi Hawass not the only prominent egyptologist, he is also on record of promoting a more liberal stance for the egyptian ministry of antiquities and tourism to grant more research opportunities.
It is true that he has a past of affiliations with corrupt policies and that he has grafted his name on publications he had only cursory involvement with, but that does not mean he is this smothering presence.
In turn, there is no fucking reason to drill under the pyramids because we know how the plateau is composed geologically. Hancock is just abusing the extremely irrigid assertions by one italian ‘researcher’ about garbled and AI processed radar imagery that is known to not be able to penetrate ground that far. This is Hancock’s usual anti-establishment narrative to make it seem like he is the only level-headed position in this batshit crazy discourse.
Honestly Hancock has been pretty bang on about this topic throughout the years so I'd back him. It looks like they need to repeat the technology in Turkey to confirm it works correctly with more data. Once that's confirmed drilling must be done because the data they got is actually insane for the history of the pyramids.
Hancock doesn’t provide evidence for his claims. He’s trying to sell you information for his own benefit. It’s mind-boggling. This isn’t obvious to everyone. He’s no better than Billy Carson.
I think Hancock genuinely believes though, in the sense that he is curious and has a drive to investigate anything that could be new or interesting. Having read a book and listened to him speak I don't believe he's grifting. Of course people need to make a living but he's selling books, not magical healing crystals to people.
If he believes it that doesn't make him much better just proves he is a stubborn fool.
How has he been bang on? Dude just yaps.
No one can answer because they don’t even know what Graham’s points are 😂😂
Then read his books. They are well written and researched. Don't rely on social media sound bites to form your opinion.
"just as bad"
Lmao.
This is stupid.
Hancock is a treasure
I own 1 Hancock book, zero by Hawass, so I appreciate Graham more than Zahi for what it’s worth.
They are both psedoscientists that exist to take money from fools. They should not be allowed anywhere near an important archeological site with a drill, god only knows what damage they could do. Also Lidar these days is very good and can and does tell us a lot about what is down there. They just don't want to accept the evidence that their theory is untrue.
I agree non invasive tools are getting really good and keep improving, much nicer tool than drilling unless the scientific consensus is that drilling is warranted with rationales
On the flip side, imagine being the eminent expert about something in your country and some wahoo with crackpot ideas thinks they know more than you because they are decent storytellers. Sorry, I would’ve told Hancock to fk off too.
Not an endorsement of Hawass. Def an ego asshole, but at least his wealth or relevance doesn’t depend on making up new shit with impressively vivid imagination every couple of years.
He's an egotistical marketing man, operating under the pretence of keeping Eygptology for Egyptians.
However, he at least isn't a complete charlatan cherry picking random nonsense for fame and book sales.
I really don't like Hawass, but Hancock is just a bullshit merchant.
Zahi Hawass = Dr Zaius from Planet of the Apes
🎵 Dr Zaius, Dr Zaius 🎵
Classic
Hawass-hole.
That been my nickname for him for years.
That...
...is spot on. Well done.
Spot on lol
They don't understand the science? I have read 2 articles and I pretty much get it.
Zahi Hawass is a wannabe Dr. Jones .Also complicit in hiding multiple finds and or taking credit shortly after, now he is saying there is nothing where the Italians found the latest discovery. Glad he’s almost gone .
Soon, and good riddance.
And an other gatekeeper will take his place.
May it never be
When asked about Goebekli Tepe, Zahi Hawass said "never heard of him"
It's possible they don't want to.
Yes at the scientist meeting where all the scientists of various fields gather and decide what evidence to ignore they definitely all decided to pretend that the science is bullshit because they all collectively don't like the idea.
Please say you intentionally left off the /s?
Graham Hancock is totally out to lunch about many things. You can take like ten minutes and listen/read to any geologist or archaeologist go through the ancient civilization theory point by point of you want, I'm definitely not going to do it here.
And as much as people in these types of subs want to believe, science isn't some centralized cabal that fervently upholds the status quo regardless of evidence. New ideas are accepted if they have actual evidence to support them.
You're going to get crucified for this around here, but you're completely right. Not to say science doesn't sometimes have its own issues with dogma, but people want to make it into some sinister conspiracy when it's a much more banal kind of thing.
Also I feel like out of all the sciences, archaeology is maybe the most willing and able to accept radical new theories if there's actual evidence, because we honestly know so little about things beyond a certain point. It's just that the kind of theories people like Hancock are spewing are largely BS.
So you understand how shoddy it is then?
yeah it's a complete scam
Regardless of how much of a hack Graham is, Zahi Hawass is a gatekeeping crook. Only he is allowed to make discoveries (alongside whomever actually made the discovery and paid him a boatload of money to share the claim). Egypt is corrupt and Zahi Hawass is 100% on board with the corruption.
To consistently maintain a position of power for so long in such a turbulent field takes a mean motherfucker. Or maybe it just makes one.
TLDR: Graham Hancock proposes a simple test: a narrow borehole to insert a fibre-optic camera at identified anomaly points, insisting this would be safe and decisive, and suggests first validating the method at known underground sites. If confirmed, he speculates the structures could relate to ancient Egyptian ideas of a literal subterranean underworld.
Aren't there some amazing non-invasive underground imaging technologies like sonar that could do the scanning without the need for drilling?
I feel like if I asked to drill directly under the Whitehouse because I've a hunch something weird is there, I'd get denied too. Not because they're gatekeeping some esoteric knowledge, but because it's insane.
It feels like he KNOWS he can't get permission, so he's dying on that hill as a martyr to his fans
The White House isn't a comparison for the pyramids. Maybe Machu Picchu.
Sure it is a comparison.
It's not the same, but it IS a comparison to make the point.
Yes, Machu Picchu would be a closer comparison. Or someone wanting to take ALL the Nazca lines in Peru home to "take a closer look" on the promise they'd bring them back and put them where they found them
I guess the question is whether this is a common technique or a crazy suggestion. I'm not an archaeologist, so no idea.
Even if it's a completely valid technique, not allowing anyone and everyone to do invasive investigation on a national historic site isn't automatically a conspiracy - it's absolutely reasonable
The Italian scientist already said they can do it through a shaft that is not under the pyramids but connects to the structure underneath. They just need to remove the dirt from it. Objectively, no reason not to give them permission to do it. But, of course, gatekeepers have different agendas.
If I wanted to go down and start digging under the pyramids, or the houses of parliament, or the statue of Liberty - how likely is it that I'd be given permission?
And would all of those that don't give me permission be gatekeeping? And what could their agenda be?
There is a shaft that is just full of dirt. It is not under anything and they wouldn't damage anything.
If you don't know what's down there, how do you know it wouldn't damage anything?
Top of my head I can think of a bunch of ways that could go wrong.
And I'd definitely be more cautious than "well, let's just let anyone that wants to try, try."
If you use that logic then we would never excavate anything.
Not at all
If there is sufficient evidence and reason to excavate, we do it all the time
you dont get premission cause you a random dude maby.....
They need to prove the tech first, because you’re not seeing the claimed mm precision from any of the shared scans at all.
So if the tech isn’t proven to work, why on earth let them dig shit up that isn’t there? Pure idiocy.
Ugh, enough with this. The technology has been used for years in many commercial and scientific industries, such as mining, prospecting, earth and climate research, etc.
The Italian team even did scans over existing ruins and underground structures to show it could also work for archeology.
People are just stuck with the initial baseless opinion caused by the wave of articles speaking of "unproven technology" and such.
Right - PART OF the method used for those nonsense scans is used for shallow impressions. The problem with the claims from those involved is the data gathered by the scans do NOT reflect the data gathered, the claims made, or the renderings they presented.
The ‘see - it works when we scan known structures!’ doesn’t pan out if you’ve ever been even a little bit decent at spot the difference. They claim mm level precision and it’s nowhere near. The images are a mess and hardly match the known structures. So they just prove their own methods and claims are inaccurate.
Also the main scientist on this project just let his patent lapse, yet claims there’s a huge money to be made. It doesn’t make sense.
No matter how much you want to believe this stuff, it’s nonsense.
Graham's whole point is that science should be open to suggestions and new information. Archeology and other sciences have refused new info time and time again throughout history with people like Graham being lambasted as crazy. Nope, he's a journalist. His job is to find and verify information and share it which is exactly what he's been doing.
Hawas is a legendary conman and fraud from the pyramids to the sphinx and beyond, he likes a show and to be the centre or attention, but the along comes Graham and Hawas isn't the centre anymore.
Anyone who thinks there isn't more buried in the sand needs to go back to school and anyone who won't scan or dig or even look at that data and say that there "may" be something there is no scientist or archaeologist either.
There is more to Egypt and many many ancient sites that we have been allowed to know because it doesn't fit with the narrative people have built their careers on selling.
Same with Peru
Sorry, do you actually believe this?
Graham is a rehashing of 1970s archeological dreams. He actively ignores the science and posits these ideas to draw in gullible people who find actual archeology and associated sciences either too hard to understand or boring.
It might be a “broken clock is right twice a day” thing. I got a book on the Mexican pyramids years ago expecting it to be all silly ancient aliens type stuff, but the book is NOTHING like that at all.
It was all about serious mathematics and science, and talked about how even the pyramids in Mexico that we see are actually newer pyramids built atop MUCH older pyramids from much older civilizations that we know very little about.
It was actually a fascinating read… I think it’s called “mysteries of the Mexican pyramids” by Peter Tompkins if anyone is interested in learning more.
I think you have to separate (more like sift) through the arguments and ignore the person with someone like Hancock. Has he been a proponent of batshit theories. Yes. Does he still have some good points. Also, yes. The problem with Hancock is not only him, it is the people who gravitate towards him (some of whom are even crazier).
To ask an established archaeologist or egyptologist to comment on Hancock you might as well have grown a second head as far as they are concerned and I don't blame them😂
I vaguely remember listening to this interview with a geologist in that circle and all was well and good and theoretical until he started mentioning how his wife was into some serious occult stuff and my immediate reaction was, ah, right, that explains it.
If these alternative researchers could just stay on the right side of the insanity line consistently 😂 it would help their cause immensely and lead to more productive outcomes. Some of them do a better job of that than others.
It’s not that sometimes he’s right and sometimes he’s wrong, it’s that he uses basic obvious truths to appear as though he’s acting in good faith when he tears through good science to push his nonsense agenda.
Graham Hancock is a willful grifter selling snake oil theories. Fuck that guy
Graham is not a scientist. He is a paradigm pusher. He has his theory and then goes looking for things to support it. Should any half-cocked wackjob be able to demand what sovereign countries do with their archeological sites?
Homie said he was a "journalist" settle down
Should a wackjob like hawass be able to restrict all of humanity from doing any science on archaeological sites?
So you are saying he came up with his theory first?
Read his first books sometime
I have a long Goodreads list right now my friend, I'm assuming you have read his books then?
How does he say he came up with the theory if not by seeing something to spark it?
He comes up with a theory that isn't based on evidence and then cherry picks information to try and back it up.
What he should do is look at all the available data and form a theory based on the evidence.
He's a grifter.
Cherry pick maybe, but he isn't pulling shit out of his ass the whole time and completely speculating based on vibes. He has used various different archelogical and scientific discoveries to put his theory across and urges more open mindness or willingness to do more work, which really is not a bad thing. A lot of these sites do need more research and field work and whether or not they disocver anything supportive to his ideas matters not if it means we learn more about these ancient.
Almost every site he visits needs more investigation, and it's a solid noooooo when people try. Gobekli Tepi is only a tiny piece of the entire settlement, which was purposefully buried to preserve it. During a time when we suspected humans were still roaming, instead it shows we were building monuments, which is tens of thousands of years of human development
I don't think you know what you're talking about, do you know what his theory is?
The very first piece of evidence for his theory, is that there is worldwide, culture wide stories of mass floods, and advanced people coming to teach.
That alone should urge people to investigate instead of scoffing, how our history and our ancestors all say the same shit.
The biggest grifters are who is running your country right now.
Lots of areas flood. Lots of people moved around.
I'm talking about actual evidence, not vibes.
Educate yourself.
Yes. Yes he did.
So he just dreamt or randomly came up with the idea of a worldwide flood and an advanced people teaching cultures?
He didn't hear the stories, or do anything before coming up with that?
He said he was a journalist if read
It’s not that they don’t understand, they don’t want to. Big difference. Hawass doesn’t want people to know what’s down there, for whatever reason,
He is a gatekeeper, probably from a long line of gatekeepers. Whatever is down there, they dont want it be known.
Which is crazy if you think about it, because from the money perspective it would increase tourism, more funding for research etc. which means more money for the economy.
Same with Peru where excavations and cave exploring is off limits
The governments dont want you to know whats down there, our whole history is being gatekeeped,
because if it was about money and cultural herritage, it would have been public accessible already.
Money is everything , except in these cases
100%
Alright coughs * now proceeds to put on crown, made of very shiny high priced aluminum foil, and puts it on my own head,. Unless the technology under the ground they already know, but don't know how to make corporate shareholders max profit yearly without disrupting the working peasants. Puts crown down gently, until next moment, to enlighten the masses* .......sorry I had some beer tonight. ,🤣🤣
Which is also a possibility yeah, or that they cannot enter / reach certain rooms because they are incapable of understanding yes.
Or... And here me out here... People from sensitive national historic sites don't want 1000s of people doing weird things to their site - based on a hunch.
Right
Get em graham! More would be possible in Egypt if this power hungry gatekeeper would move aside.
Easy to make a challenge you know will never be taken up.
He knows they will never dig. And that's the end. I don't know why he keeps trying to monetize this.
He KNOWS they'll never approve the dig (reasonable) so he's dying on that hill to reinforce his "I'm the maverick victim" persona
Can someone help me out here—why was this technology only able to detect underground structures, but not the chambers inside the pyramids?
Look, two of the worst people you know are fighting.
„Because he doesn’t understand the science behind it.“ Think about that for a second. That is literally the dumbest reason you could give. What is it even supposed to mean?
Graham Hancock tells compelling stories about a civilization we would absolutely expect to find evidence for—yet never do—while insisting that the absence of such evidence is proof of a conspiracy rather than a flaw in his reasoning.
Graham Hancock doesn’t just reject academic criticism, he personally attacks critics, portraying professional archaeologists as corrupt, dishonest, or malicious, even when those critics are simply explaining basic methodology that he is too stupid to understand. This guy is just a freakin fraud.
He has to say that he doesn't want to say Hawas is a corrupt human being, and is known for intentionally hiding stuff to be able to take credit for it, which is an established fact at this point.
I would argue gobleki tepe, kinda does show civilization has been around longer than normal archeology says
We only know of Gobekli Tepe BECAUSE of normal archeology.
Except Hancock argues there was an advanced civilisation, on par or past our own level.
Hawass is so comically stuborn that, at this point, I think he's the last of an ancient line of priests tasked with protecting the truth of the Fifth Element (or whatever ancient secret) from getting out.
The pillars under the pyramid paper was legitimately dumb as fuck lmao. The science was interesting but the data was bad, their interpretation was worse, and their conclusion was absolutely dumb. It'd be like if I were to cook a burger and then claim that the burger means turtles are doing calculus in their sleep. The conclusions had nothing to do with the data.
Hawass has done insurmountable damage to our ability to understand the true history of the human race.
Graham is not a serious person.
"The scientists don't understand the science as well as i do. That's why nearly 100% of them disagree with my zany conclusions. Theyre just dogmatists too busy worshipping at the altar of Scientism. It's just a coincidence that the only way to test my hypothesis is by doing stuff "they" won't let me do. All im asking is to dig up the Giza plateau. Is that too much to ask? The entire field of research is a vast conspiracy to suppress The Truth."
Erich Von Daniken said exactly the same thing about the scientific establishment over 50 years ago in his book Chariots of the Gods and he’s been proven right about everything. /s
No one believed Heinrich Schliemann or Herodotus until archaeological digs revealed the truth. Is it so bad to keep an open mind?
False. Schliemann destroyed most of the evidence he wanted to unearth, while his detractors criticized his methods, not his goals.
Herodotus was an ancient author who tried to record tales supposed to depict the past of the cultures he was exposed to. Without any rigidity applied.
Neither has shown anybody to be ‘wrong’. Neither is a good example of diligent, academic work.
You are stupidly wrong.
Combining these two is already stupid.
People need evidence to actually believe shit.
"Hey everyone - someone was wrong/corrupt in the past, therefore we can now reasonably believe anything we want without evidence or reason!"
And that’s what makes him so great!
I mean his shits entertaining, though I much prefer actual true archeology with evidence for content.
That said I use his Younger Dryas Impact (if not the way he does) in the deep history of the RPG I'm working on since it's great fodder
You might "like" Randall Carlson, in that vein👀
Hawass should be in prison.
"The science behind it. I hope you are joking. Graham is a clown.
💯 💯 as far as i know those images are indicative of nothing. Graham Hancocks grift is endless.
What’s the matter, Graham? Gravy train drying up? Maybe it’s time you get a real job.
Nah, he'll just cry on Joe Rogan about how Big Archeology is conspiring against him and then rant about Flint Dibble.
LOLL i still remmeber when he actually started crying that one time he had to debate that skeptic and geologist guy.
Aaand he’s right
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If Graham was concerned with “the science behind” extraordinary claims, he’d have run out of sensationalist claims right about the time he started his career. I’m guessing the only way to research these underground structures just so happens to involve paying a bunch of money to this pathetic conman
You're missing the intermediate grift, where he needs money to lobby for the rights to dig first.
Then comes the dig-grift
We must
Hehehe you said science and Graham Hancock in the same sentence
he's using the word 'science' in a hugely idiosyncratic way here
You’re using the word ‘idiosyncratic’ in a hugely unscientific way here.
the very best thing you can say about hancock is that he's a fantasist. Amazing that anyone still listens to a word that obvious con man spouts.
Hawass isn’t really an archeologist; he’s a narcissistic PR man who craves attention and recognition. Read Ahmed Osman’s book, The Lost City of the Exodus.
Believing Graham Hancock is a new low, even for this sub 😂. Everything he claims in his show is easily debunked through actual archaeology.
I believe the pyramids are the top of an extreme obelisk. Essentially they are a benben stone
Stubbornness is the greatest symptom of stupidity.
Please dont drill into the ancient artifacts,thank you.
We don't need to make holes in things to see what's there anymore.
Archaeology has moved on from dynamite and pickaxes
There is no where near enough real data to justify digging under the pyramid.
Get more and better scans first.
I love high strangeness stuff but the ancient aliens crap that Hancock peddles is just a modern version of the Nazi Archaeologists hunt for the aryan race across the globe. Except instead of white people building everything it’s white aliens. He has no interest in actually submitting his work for peer review so he just writes adventure books about this grand conspiracy he’s facing. He treats other people’s culture like a DnD manual for his fantasy stories.
He never talks about aliens. He thinks that human civilization has been around longer than what was originally theorized and with structures being found that are older and older, he might be correct
What underground structures? All this stems from shit inconclusive scans.
Hawass is a fool, the Egyptians didn’t build the pyramids they were just the slaves for the civilization that did.
Compelling evidence of advancement within Egyptian civilization has been suppressed and minimized for years. Your theory is just another set dressing for the mainstream narrative.