Yeah Alan Rickman portrayed Snape much more dignity and with a lot more gravitas than the book. Movie Snape always maintains his composure and never really raises his voice, even at his angriest. Book Snape is infinitely more slimy and malicious, with the occasional full-on screaming unhinged tirade.
Rewatched the movies recently and Snape isn't even particularly mean to Harry early on outside the first scene in the first movie. He makes a few snide comments but most of his worst behavior from the books is almost completely omitted.
Doesn't that make him more compelling? I can only remember 2 instances where he lost his cool and both of them were very valid.
I also dont think he was Slimy and malicious ....more along the lines of petty and immature (kind of like Sirius).
Not to mention Movie Snape actually lost his cool and ended the occlumency lessons when Harry used protego while book Snape actually approved it and was only mad when Harry deliberatelysnooped.
Movie Snape is probably why I like him so much as a character I can't help but love characters who u know are absolutely awful sometimes. I need help lmao
He is a lot younger in the books, which people seem to forget. Book Snape is barely in his 30s so its more understandable for him to be more immature. He is a massive dick and stuck in highschool trauma, but it makes a bit more sense given his age.
i would say he is an anti-villain: he is not a good person, he is someone on a revenge-path, and joins the good guys just because the person he loved was a good person, and her killer is a bad guy.
Doing good things at risk of your own life for the sake of their goodness doesn’t make someone good?
He outright saved Lupin’s life, a man he despises, in a battle both against Dumbledore’s orders and his own interest while risking his cover.
He goes out of his way to send rebellious students to Hagrid as “punishment” to spare them from the Carrows.
He outright tells Dumbledore that lately he has only watched those die who he could not save, meaning he has done his best to save all he could and/or deeply regrets it when he cannot.
If you believe he has murdered before (which evidence points to him not), then him bemoaning damaging his soul by killing Dumbledore would mean he has healed it with genuine remorse.
After he learns the truth that Harry must die, losing his original motivation to fight against Voldemort, he still continues on to do so despite having no incentive to. Genuinely believing in the cause.
Yes, he’s an asshole with a vicious tongue and a cruel streak. But to handwave away all his good actions is rather silly.
This response shows Dumbledore either at his most hilarious rage-bait nonsense or dementia addled mind.
I can see why people thought dumbledore has lost his mind if he listens to a person rant about Snape and arguing about his goodness (using evidence from books written with knowledge any normal canon character outside Harry or dumbledore or Snape himself shouldn’t know) and he proceeds to ask the person if he is Fenrir Greyback.
“rant about Snape and arguing about his goodness (using evidence from books written with knowledge any normal canon character outside Harry or dumbledore or Snape himself shouldn’t know)“
I’m confused, what about my response constitutes a “rant” lol? I was neither angry nor impassioned in my comment.
Admittedly, probably not the best choice of words there but at the time it was what came to me. Not only did I think it wouldn’t offend anyone I also thought no one would see it since I was interacting with a bot.
He never asked Dumbledore to keep her family safe, He asked for her to be kept safe. Things that were important to her were not important to him. Thus, it was not about her happiness, it was her availability.
He doesn't threaten her. He's actually pretty chill about it considering how consistently he's portrayed as having a bad temper. It's also implied once she tells him to f off that he does.
You don't have to like the character. You certainly don't have to morally condone the character. But let's not make up facts about what did or didn't happen
I belive he said keep her-them - safe.
And even before that he never said about protting only Lily. Dumbledore was putting words in his mouth when he asked if he asked him if he couldn't have asked Voldemort to spare Lily. Idkhow anyone expects him to ask Voldemort to spare Harry.
Dumbledore actually asked if Snape couldn't haveasked voldemort and he said he did and then he was cut off by a disgusted a Dumbledore who asked if that meant he cared nothing for her son and husband. At which point he asked Dumbledore to keep all of them safe.
I mean asking Voldemort to spare Harry doesn't even make sense. Like snape already knows it's such a huge ask just to ask for Lily that he's gone to Dumbledore believing its fruitless to expect mercy from Voldemort. Asking him to spare Harry is honestly just kind of gibberish.
Asking Voldemort to save Lily was already a big ask. However, since Voldemort assumed the reason to be lust, it wasn’t an ask that would get him killed and tortured.
Asking him to save Harry and James as well would have outed him as disloyal and gotten him killed or worse. And why, in the first place, would young Snape ask him to spare James, who sexually assaulted him, almost got him mauled by a werewolf, and blamed him for existing while poor? As for Harry, Voldemort had already decided to kill him. Inexperienced 21-year-old Snape was in no position to stop him.
So by your definition every single pantsing and wedgie qualifies as sexual assault? Fuck outta here. You’re diluting the term and minimizing what people who have actually been sexually assaulted have gone through
If you’d checked my comment history, you’d know that I was SA’d by a middle aged man at 16.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you had no idea.
I’m from a culture where pantsing is not a thing, and I’ve never witnessed one. However, I do think it would be considered ‘seksuell handling uten samtykke’, i.e. sexual assault if it were to happen here.
Is it by any chance possible that we’re using the term to mean two different things? I distinguish between rape and sexual assault, where sexual assault is a physical, non-consensual act which sexually harms, threatens or humiliates the victim. I’d say that grabbing, derobing and exposing someone against their will is sexual assault, while obviously not being rape.
You conveniently forget that it was Snape who developed Levicorpus and that he used it on people so often it became a "fashion spell", where James learned it.
Cool. Doesn't change the fact that James still used it, and then went a step further. If Person A buys a gun, and then Person B steals that gun, puts a bullet in it, and shoots Person A with it, is Person B all of a sudden not guilty of attempted murder simply because the gun he used belongs to the victim?
Yes, it does. Quick question, if a guy grabbed a girl, pinned her down to the ground, ripped off her skirt, then hair panties, and spread her legs and exposed her genitalia in public for everyone to see, would you be arguing "That's not sexual-assault! It's just a prank, bro!"
Seems to me that this is more of a case of you being an apologist over the matter simply because you like the sexual-predator and hate the victim.
Is the guy in question not sexually interested in girl? and any people around not sexually interested in said girl? oh, and also we shoud've stopped only on showing panties, we dont know if genitalias were in fact exposed...
You are manipulating people using the girl in your example, because we all used to the fact that women often treated like sexual object, men - are not. Im sure noone in this scene was sexually interested in Snape, so it is not sexual assault, but it is stil an assault. Ngl cant comprehend why you guys cant sympathize with Snape without pinning SA here
So, as long as there is not sexual interest, then it doesn’t qualify as sexual-assault? If a guy did that to the girl, if he isn’t sexually interested in her, it isn’t sexual-assault to you? That’s not how it works.
We don’t know if Snape showed his genitals, yes, which is why I added. And yes, I am adding women, because, unfortunately, a lot of people hold the mentality that men can’t be sexually-assaulted, or that it’s not as bad as when it happens to men, so I reversed the genders to showcase people’s hypocrisy and bigotry.
I can’t sympathize with Snape without it being sexual-assault. But it likely was sexual-assault based on what James said he was going to do next.
He exposed his dick in public without consent, that is SA lmao. It's people like u that make it difficult for victims because if it doesn't fit ur narrative it's not SA lmao.
No, he did not. Read the fucking books, for fuck's sake, and stop spreading misinformation. This is like the fifth post I've seen claiming that James exposed Snape's private parts. For crying out loud. What's wrong with you people?
And why, in the first place, would young Snape ask him to spare James, who sexually assaulted him, almost got him mauled by a werewolf, and blamed him for existing while poor?
As Luke Skywalker infamously once said... Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
Using Levicorpus on someone is not the same as sexual assault and it sounds a bit despicable when someone compares the two. (Plus: that spell was invented by Severus himself.) Sirius was the one who told Snape to go to the Shrieking Shack where Remus was; James was the one who saved Snape's life, that's why Snape was protecting Harry in book one. And as for "blaming him for existing"? "While poor"? Are you for real? Go read that chapter one more time.
You’re right that it was Sirius, rather than James, that told Snape to go to the Shrieking Shack, so that was a pretty poor example to use. Good catch!
If I remember correctly, ‘Because he exists’ was the Marauders’ (verbatim) reason for hexing Severus. The phrasing stuck with me, as it seemed oddly callous and privileged. I’d also say that being exposed half naked for humiliation purposes against one’s will is in fact sexual assault. We don’t know why Snape invented levicorpus, but he may have intended it for reactive use only.
If I remember correctly, ‘Because he exists’ was the Marauders’ (verbatim) reason for hexing Severus. The phrasing stuck with me, as it seemed oddly callous and privileged.
James was not "blaming" Severus "for existing" "while poor." James was being a bully, which by definition is the same as being a jerk. An immature, fifteen-year-old full of himself who everyone in Hogwarts idolized. That quickly went to his head. We can all agree that James's behavior in that single chapter was reprehensible to say the least.
"What's he done to you?" said Lily. "Well, it's more the fact that he exists, if you know what I mean..." said James, playing it for laughs (which he got). Snape was a pain in his ass, and yes, he probably picked on Snape because Snape was odd. But Snape was also a Slytherin (Gryffindor's rival house) and a proto-Death Eater who had absolutely no problem calling Muggle-borns "Mudbloods" to their faces.
Remus was not precisely a rich kid and James not only never picked on him because of it, but he was also the first person to reach out to Remus when Remus had no one. And I think we can also agree that Remus was the most miserable student in Hogwarts at that time for obvious reasons.
James was an asshole at 15, sure. But he was also brave, generous (he helped Sirius run away from his abusive, bigoted family), and altruistic. And he grew up. He matured. He joined the Order of the Phoenix and faced Voldemort three times. He died without a wand in his hand trying to buy Lily time to escape. That's the man Lily fell in love with.
I’d also say that being exposed half naked for humiliation purposes against one’s will is in fact sexual assault. We don’t know why Snape invented levicorpus, but he may have intended it for reactive use only.
Snape wasn't naked. And yes, Levicorpus is a very humiliating curse. What it is not is sexual assault.
I've read your other comment, and it appears that you hold a different definition of sexual assault than mine. Fair enough. From my point of view, calling what happened between Snape and the Marauders "sexual assault" diminishes the true impact of real sexual assault which is one of the most horrible and heinous crimes anyone can commit. Starting with the fact that there was nothing sexual about it in this scenario.
And we do know why a proto-Death Eater was inventing curses in his spare time. In fact, right next to Levicorpus he wrote "Sectumsempra: for enemies." So, yeah, forgive me if I don't give Snape the benefit of the doubt.
That is not to say that I don't find Severus Snape a fascinating character and one of the most complex of the whole book series. But it really gets on my nerves when some people defend the indefensible aspects of the character.
> James was not "blaming" Severus "for existing" "while poor...
"Well, the character said this, but he didn't really mean it, despite the fact that he literally said so."
> ...But Snape was also a Slytherin (Gryffindor's rival house) and a proto-Death Eater who had absolutely no problem calling Muggle-borns "Mudbloods" to their faces.
No, let's stop with this whole "James hated Snape because of the dark arts". It wasn't. He even reminisces about how it was the best time of his life.
James hated Snape for literally no reason other than the fact that he "existed" as James himself stated, because he got off on hurting him, and because he was jealous of Snape's relationship with Lily, as Rowling, the author of the story herself, stated. None of it was done out of some misplaced altruistic reasons.
> Remus was the most miserable student in Hogwarts at that time for obvious reasons.
No, he wasn't. He was literally having the time of his life and was part of the most popular group of people in Hogwarts, with special treatment and protection from Dumbledore himself. Lupin even reminisces it and talks about how that was the time of his life.
> And he grew up. He matured...
The only people who ever say he grew up are literally either his best friends, or people who are biased in his favor. And as for Lily, according to Rowling, Lily was always secretly attracted to James, even when he was an asshole and a bully.
> Snape wasn't naked. And yes, Levicorpus is a very humiliating curse. What it is not is sexual assault.
> I've read your other comment, and it appears that you hold a different definition of sexual assault than mine...
Levicorpus by itself wouldn't qualify as sexual-assault. It's what James likely did after of removing Snape's underwear in order to exposes his genitals in public, that makes it sexual-assault.
If a guy were to lift girl who was wearing a skirt up by her ankles, and because of gravity, her panties are being shown, that would not be sexual-assault. However, if the guy then went on to rip off her panties and expose her genitalia in public for everyone to see, THEN it would be sexual-assault, and that is likely what James did to Snape.
> And we do know why a proto-Death Eater was inventing curses in his spare time. In fact, right next to Levicorpus he wrote "Sectumsempra: for enemies." So, yeah, forgive me if I don't give Snape the benefit of the doubt.
Sectumsempra for my enemies. Said enemies involve a group of people, one of whom tried to murder him and the other who (potentially) sexually-assaulted him, all for their own amusement. This would be like saying if a girl bought a pocket-knife to use on the group who tried to murder her and sexually-assaulted her, and then said "I don't give her the benefit of the doubt because she bought a knife".
> That is not to say that I don't find Severus Snape a fascinating character and one of the most complex of the whole book series. But it really gets on my nerves when some people defend the indefensible aspects of the character.
Oh, you again. This is the most braindead response I've gotten so far from a Snape apologist. Bring back the other Redditor, I was having a more pleasant discussion with them.
The only reason you label it braindead is because it disproves all of your points and shows your favorite characters for having done the messed up things they did.
Oh, wow, so now you’re making up more stuff. Funny you should call Snape a stalker, and leaves Lily alone the moment she ends their friendship and asks him to never talk to her again, which is the exact opposite of the definition of a stalker.
Sirius didn't even tell snape to go there, snape was already looking to get past the tree, all Sirius did was say your funeral and told him how to feeze the tree
And Snape wouldn’t have managed without Sirius telling him how to do so. If a person is trying to get into a house, and you give them the key, knowing that the house will explode the moment the door is opened, you’re still guilty of murder. At best it’s manslaughter. And considering that Sirius had malicious intentions when informing Snape, Sirius is guilty of attempted murder, and the only reason he didn’t go to Azkaban is because Dumbledore covered-up after him.
No one held a want to snapes head and forced him in that tunnel, no one cast imperio on him snape CHOSE to stalk lupin and madame pomfree snape CHOSE to try and get past the tree snape CHOSE to listen to Sirius (who he had no reason to believe or trust) snape CHOSE to go into the tunnel where he suspected a fulky changed werewolf to be waiting stop taking away snapes agency
Cool, Sirius still gave Snape the information to do it with malicious intentions. This is like the boyfriend suicide case, where the girlfriend repeatedly told the boyfriend to kill himself, and when the boy finally did take his own life, saying “the girlfriend holds absolutely no blame. The guy choice was his own, so the girlfriend should absolutely not take any blame and should never have gone to jail for the death of her boyfriend”, despite the courts finding the girlfriend responsible for the death of the boy.
No its like the boyfriend keeps threatening to kill himself and the fed up girlfriend finally says fine do it then, again everything that lead up to it was SNAPE making CHOICES at any point snape could have just says screw this and walk away but he was determined to out lupin
Except he didn't. James did (potentially) sexually-assault Snape. It was the act of Levicorpus that made it sexual-assault, it was that James then potentially went a step further and removed Snape's underwear in order to exposes his genitals in public. If a guy were to lift girl who was wearing a skirt up by her ankles, and because of gravity, her panties are being shown, that would not be sexual-assault. However, if the guy then went on to rip off her panties and expose her genitalia in public for everyone to see, THEN it would be sexual-assault, and that is likely what James did to Snape.
Also, James did bully Snape for existing. He literally says so. Not to mention James bullies a bunch of people because he thinks it's funny. And Rowling literally said that another reason James bullied Snape was because he saw Snape as a romantic threat for Lily's affections. So unless you're saying everyone in the book and the author herself is wrong, that is very much why James bullied Snape and others.
It was the act of Levicorpus that made it sexual-assault, it was that James then potentially went a step further and removed Snape's underwear in order to exposes his genitals in public.
Yeah... that never happened.
It's explicitly stated in the book that Snape's "pair of greying underpants" are revealed under his robes when James uses Levicorpus on him RIGHT AFTER Snape attacked him with a curse when James wasn't looking. "Snape had directed his wand straight at James; there was a flash of light and a gash appeared on the side of James's face, spattering his robes with blood."
Now stop with the fucking sexual assault shit. It's not funny. It never was.
Also, James did bully Snape for existing. He literally says so.
It was a stupid joke made by a stupid teenager to impress his crush. Seriously, it never ceases to amaze me the lack of media literacy some people have.
Not to mention James bullies a bunch of people because he thinks it's funny.
Source?
And Rowling literally said that another reason James bullied Snape was because he saw Snape as a romantic threat for Lily's affections.
Yeah, you'll need to back all those claims up, my friend.
So unless you're saying everyone in the book and the author herself is wrong, that is very much why James bullied Snape and others.
Don't put words in my mouth. The burden of proof is on you on this one. Go ahead and back it up.
James SAVED Snape from the Werewolf incident and did not cause it (that was Sirius, and we know that Snape had already assumed Lupin to be a werewolf before and STILL was stupid enough to go after Sirius told him "lol if you wanna find out come to the Shack"), and he did not sexually assault him, jfc. Also, James was friends with both Lupin and Peter, both of which came from non-wealthy backgrounds, he didn't hate on Snape because Snape was poor, but because Snape was a smelly blood purist who'd personally developed killing spells at age 15.
James absolutely did sexually-assault him. And he did hate Snape because James existed, not because Snape was blood-purist. He hated him and bullied him, along with others, because he took pleasure in hurting Snape, and because, as Rowling herself said, he saw Snape as a romantic threat for Lily.
Let's stop with this "James had altruistic reasons for all the bad things he did". He didn't.
"OMG I CAN'T BE RACIST I HAVE BLACK FRIENDS" lmao. Also, didn't James and Sirius suspect Lupin first of being a traitor? Also, Lupin and Peter's status is fannon. We know Lupin is poor as an adult, but that does not equate to him being the same as a child. Yeah, and Snape made those spells because he had the Marauders, his assailants and stalkers, harassing him. Also, exposing someone's privates without permission, especially in a public setting, is SA. But seeing as u handed off Sirius' faults to Snape in the SS incident, u might just enjoy victim blaming. Do u, per chance, ask rape victims what they were wearing when they were raped? Or do you say people who walk on a dangerous street deserve to get assaulted in any way?
As a SA survivor and sex worker, I can differentiate lmao. The traitor suspicions came up only shortly before the Potters' death, too, and had nothing to do with their situation at school.
I mean I like Snape because he's not really a good person, but he has a solid redemption. He's just so complicated. I don't deny any of his actions
Except one: I think that his love for Lily was platonic. But because she was the only person to ever care about him, he still put her on a pedestal.) That's just my headcanon based on the books though. And their relationship would still be super unhealthy.
I also like Dumbledore and Sirius because they, too, are pretty complex.
I didn’t like movie Snape because he was 30 years older, had absolutely different physique and they chopped off his mean lines. I like book Snape - he was intriguing, complex, broken character that inspires so many discussions.
Meh I liked Snape before the films. After the red herring in philosophers stone kind of trusted the process. Figured he was a nuanced character learning about the Marauders and him sealed the grey dynamic when he killed Dumbledore was huge believer in the theory (actually correct) it was Dumbledores plan. Alan was great and I do like his portrayal but I liked snape in the books more grey characters are my favorite those with reasons for their flaws. Sev had a rough childhood and unfortunately went down a dark path didn't help the Marauders bullied him say what you want for their reasons 4v1 is cowardly no matter how you justify it. And I say that as a Sirius fangirl, Marauders were douches as teens.
Love book snape way more. He had every right to be a villain and yes I know. He choose to help for the "wrong" reasons, but he still choose to do so. And let's not forget (we made not know his true motives) but I mean hes head of Slytherin and an ex death eater. If he truly felt disdain towards students it's one thing. But what if he didn't and had to put up a front. Also the way he acts during potions. It's very dangerous and I would be mean too. But in all seriousness.. he was a jerk. Still love him though. A Very Morally Ambiguous Character
It's not so about Alan Rickman's performance alone. It's Alan Rickman's performance of a fairly admirable character. The writers transformed Snape to a different person in the movies (apart from the first 2 movies the least). The movie Snape was meant to be liked - loved, admired and respected by the end of the series. Alan Rickman did a brilliant portrayal of that. Now, Alan Rickman playing a book accurate Snape (if so the movie writers did) might have made only-movies fans hate Snape equally as much as they love him now.
Yeah, just pointing out that it didn't happen in the books. I actually liked the movie change, as it implies that snape was planning on going there to stop voldemort from killing the potters
Redditors just always assume they know more than everyone else huh?
And does it?? It seems to me just as likely that he was lying in wait for Voldemort to kill Lily's husband & son so he can swoop in and "retrieve" her, or at least watch it happen.
But I'm open to that idea I guess... was there other evidence that he planned on confronting him then? I guess I don't understand why he would go through all the trouble of telling him the prophesy and asking for her life only if he was going to confront him anyway? Plus why would he wait until after they died to to so??? I'm not doubting, I just don't really get how it could be possible?
Um what? Tf you throwing a stray at me for?! I agreed with you bruh
And it can. Since snape talked to voldemort, asked him to spare her life. He refused. Doesn't take a genius to figure out what voldemort was gonna do next. So, I guess its likely that he was trying to stop him. Since he showed up right after they died. If I had to guess, he was just too late. Probably because he went to dumbledore first to ask him to hide them, and then went to the potters house? Idk. I like the change, but its definitely confusing.
Snape for all his faults was a victim of shitty parents and people like James and Sirius who tortured him for the hell of it. The whole reason he falls into Death eaters is because they are the only people that are actually nice to him other than Lily. He was a shitty teacher no doubt.
He joined the side of Dumbledore before Lilys death btw. He then also following her death devoted himself to trying to keep Harry Safe despite his dislike of him and the animosity between them
He didn’t denounce it because he was an impressionable young man who’s only friends… the only people who actually hung out with him regularly were that group. It was shitty but that’s literally all he had… then years later to maintain the facade of being that - He had to pretend to still hold those views despite actually doing everything he could to protect students from Death Eaters.
People like him because he was a complex well written character who had a solid redemption arc despite his flaws. Alan Rickman was legendary which helped but Snape being an interesting character in and of himself is why people like him. I wouldn’t say he is cool, but I think he is an interesting character.
Harry received the favor of Dumbledore and a bunch of Hogwarts students, and was popular from the moment he stepped foot on the Hogwarts Express, while Snape was being bullied by the popular kids everyone liked, and had Dumbledore literally covering-up a bunch of the Marauders crimes, including an attempted murder on him, and then forcing him into silence over the matter.
There is much that I would like to say to you all tonight, but I must first acknowledge the loss of a very fine person, who should be sitting here, enjoying our feast with us. I would like you all, please, to stand, and raise your glasses, to Cedric Diggory.
If Harry had been bullied severely by a bunch of well-liked kids at Hogwarts, hadn’t gotten to know the Weasleys, and had been sorted into Slytherin with Hermione in Gryffindor as his only friend, that might very well have happened.
Also, Harry presumably had an okay infancy until Voldemort attacked. Snape may have been abused and neglected even at that stage. He’s a human, humans are mammals, and pretty much all mammals will be severely socially affected by being abused as infants.
Not just his performance the movies just removed alot of Snape being overly rude, unjustly punishing and supreme bias , hes just kinda an asshole in the movies, book snapes like “you fuck this up and your toad dies neville”
I'm going to be honest here, saying that fans only like Snape would be like saying that character any character, including superheroes, is liked solely because of the actor. Because almost everything listed here is something the a bunch of beloved heroes are guilty of, if not worse. Let's do a review.
Dumbledore was the original wizard-Nazi, having created the movement alongside Grindelwald, and was planning on leading it until Grindelwald attacked his family and cost Dumbledore his sister. And later on, Dumbledore covered-up an attempted murder on a student and then forced the victim into silence while allowing the perpetrators to go by unscathed and spin half-truths that made themselves look good. people must only like Dumbledore because he reminds them of their sweet grandpa or Santa Claus.
McGonagall sent kids into the Forbidden Forest at night, filled with rabid animals, as a punishment, and years later locked Neville out in the halls while an escaped (supposed) mass-murderer and terrorist was on the loose. She always grabbed Malfoy by the ear and dragged him at one point. People only like her because of Maggie Smith.
Hagrid mutilated Dudley because of something Dudley’s father said. People only like Hagrid because of Robbie Coltrane
Trelawney took her frustrations with Umbridge out on the students by throwing books at them, in one case hitting Neville so hard, he was knocked back. People only like her because of Emma Thompson
Flitwick (an English professor) made Seamus (an Irish student) compare himself to a baboon, which carries huge historical and ethnic implications. People only like him because they like Warwick Davis
Lupin was willing to risk the lives of his students and colleagues, not to mention the people of Hogsmeade by keeping it a secret how Sirius was moving around, all to protect his job and reputation. And later on, when planning to walk out on his pregnant wife and unborn child, when called out on it by Harry, Lupin physically attacked Harry and slammed him headfirst against the wall. People only like him because of David Thewlis and because he's a Marauders.
Let's move to other characters in fiction.
Iron Man was a weapons-profiteer who only changed his ways after his weapons were used against him. People only like him because of RDJ.
MCU Thor committed mass-murder against an innocent race for a crime they didn't commit. People only like him because they think Chris Hemsworth is hot.
Natasha is literally one of the world's biggest war-criminals (and continued committing war-crimes after changing sides), who was bombing little children and set a children hospital on fire, burning little kids and their doctors and family alive, among other things. They only like her because Scarlet Johansson is hot.
MCU Wanda was literally a HYDRA operative (with ties to Nazi Germany) who sided with Ultron and unleashed the Hulk on civilians, killing dozens and injuring many more. Only like her because she's played by Elizabeth Olson.
Spider-Man was willing to let people be victimized by crime because it didn't affect him, and Iron Man only stopped producing weapons of mass-destruction when he was hit by those weapons. People only like him because of Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield.
You didn’t get it, did you?
Nobody is talking about “flaws” its about how the movie fans love Snape because they don’t know the “Real- book Snape”
The movies changed his character to a point that fans believe he was a good person whereas the book Snape was despicable and the revelation shown in his memories did NOT change that.
Don't forget that he would have been totally cool if Voldy had murdered James and baby Harry and given him Lily to be his little muggle-born pet.
Snape didn't "love" Lily. He was infatuated with her, he lusted after, and coveted her. He did not care about her. He viewed her as an object, not as a person.
Snape is NOT a redeemable character and I will fucking die on this hill.
The epilogue is non-canon in my opinion because Harry would never be so stupid as to name one of his children after the man that bullied him his whole life because he was denied the ability to turn his mother into a rape slave.
How can you claim that he was infatuated/lusting after her/coveting her? That sounds more like James during their school days to me. He wasn't in her life for several years and had come to peace with it somewhat while thinking of her as the one who got away, because, yk she was the only person who ever bothered seeing him as a person. And he lost that, due to his own fault, which he regretted but ultimately accepted. When he learned that she was in danger, it was a wake up call to him and he switched sides to ensure her safety because, again, only person to ever care about him. He didn't expect her to get with him after or anything. Why would he?
Well, he is not rich or handsome like James, so he HAS to be the creep even though James had 2 instruments in his possession, which is great for being a creep.
I'd also like to add that if that famous fanon about "victorian flower language" was actually intended by JKR, the first thing Snape says to Harry is "I bitterly regret Lily's death", who, yknow, died to save Harry. So what he says to him is "sucks that you're here and she's not".
Snape was never planning on getting together with Lily, this is simply something that Dumbledore assumed. If being with Lily was truly Snape’s objective, he would have never agreed to Dumbledore’s terms of also saving James and Harry.
Also, funny you try to pain Snape wanting to rape Lily, when, canonically, James and the Weasley twins show far more instances of being sexual predators.
You can die on that hill, but know that your hill is literally made up of fanfiction that was disproven by the story.
I would assume that you were going to offer me refreshment, but the evidence so far suggests that that would be optimistic to the point of foolishness.
Snapes feelings for Lily are solely about him. Not her, not what he could do for her, or how he could make her feel, or how she felt. Just him.
It's like every 80s teen romance movie male protagonist. It's entirely about how good the woman would make them feel and how much they are entitled to it or deserve it. If only she would love me...!
And the fact harry said he was one of the greatest men he ever knew showed me that jk rowling had a fucked up brain even then lmao. like sure let’s forgive him I guess but… no normal human would like him let alone HONOR him after everything he did???
Wtf they did not nearly kill him. Lupin was unaware of everything, James SAVED him, Peter wasn't involved and as far as we know, all Sirius did was go like "ffs just come to the Shack if you wanna know so badly" AFTER Snape already assumed that Lupin was a werewolf!
Yes, Sirius absolutely did try to kill Snape. He gave Snape the information of how to find werewolf Lupin with malicious intent behind him, and even years later, when Lupin recounts how Snape nearly died because of Sirius, Sirius replies that Snape deserved it for trying to get him expelled.
You mean being coerced by the strongest wizard alive to do so? After getting Harry’s parents killed? While being an irredeemable asshole to Harry? No, it doesn’t
Racism? Because the same family can't have magic and non-magical people. A different word would have been more approporiate, but I at least get the idea.
And I agree that Rickman's Snape was amazing. And I'm very curious what series Snape will be like. I wonder if they'll make him more antagonistic. I'd be okay with that. He doesn't need to be the same as movie Snape.
I'm saying the word is wrong. Wizards and muggles are not unique races. 😒 So, it's not racism. But it IS a kind of bias.
I mean, if you wanna separate them that way, I guess you can headcanon that. But I find it somewhat problematic as it falls in with the pureblood ideology. The only people who really view muggles as "others" are people like Voldemort. And we know the Death Eaters are magical stand-ins for Nazis. Their views of muggles are not unlike some real life views of various groups by those who thought they were superior. While race does not have to include solely genetic differences (because nowadays we see that people are more similar than dissimilar, and because many genetically disparate groups might be lumped together so that the idea of "race" becomes fuzzy when you examine it), I believe that it is the way it would be meant here.
Voldemort views muggles as things which are as different from wizards as cats are from dogs. Some superficial similarities and that's about it. But what's odd is that you can have muggles and wizards in the same household, among full blood relations. Full siblings can include both magic and non-magic individuals. If you view muggles and wizards as racially distinct, then you necessarily are separating even households along racial lines, when they are otherwise the same.
There is a genetic component to magic, though. There is a magic gene. It can appear in anyone of any "race," provided they descend from at least one individual who already carried it. It can skip many generations and seemingly come out of nowhere.
It vaguely reminds me of blue eyes, lol. Supposedly, nearly everybody in the world with blue eyes descends from the same single person--the first person with blue eyes caused by the specific gene mutation seen today. If a full sibling of mine doesn't have blue eyes and I do, would we be considered different races because they did not inherit that one trait? Maybe, but it feels far fetched to me.
Yes, this is mainly because the movie Snape was never that much hateworthy anyway. There are many random book moments not included in the movies in which Snape is an absolute asshole without any reason. And okay, Harry was the son of James, but he bullies all Gryffindor students including Neville (whose parents are in St. Mungos' because of death eaters) and Hermione (intelligent, and a muggle born). He also let go of many problems caused by Slytherin students.
I feel like the more I grow up the more crankier i become, but also as I grow up, it feels so disgusting seeing grown ass man bullying children like that. Especially when i imagine someone treating my niece and nephews the way Snape treats his students
So Snape was totally fine with Voldemort killing James and Harry but asked him to spare Lilly. He even showed up at Godric's Hollow immediately after their murder just to see if Lilly was still alive.
If Voldemort did spare Lilly, what would Snape have done then? Show up at Godric's Hollow immediately and say something like "Hey Lilly, I see you're single now... wanna grab a cup of coffee sometime"?
I will never understand why Snaters thinkbtheyvare the only ones who have read the book
Edit:Ah it seems I have offended that part of the Fandom. Again. We let me add insult to injury by saying that a Snape fan usually had far more book examples for liking the character the Snaters who often spam the same thing.
Because people either ignore or downplay all of snapes worse moments "he had to bully 11 year olds because he was under cover its totally ok he tried to poison a students pet because it was part of his cover, it dosent matter he mocked a 13 year old girls appearance while she was in pain because because she was always obnoxious"
By that logic, Marauders fan, or even the fans of most Hogwarts adults, have only seen the movies, because they downplay the actions of a lot of them, many who behaved in ways worse than Snape.
Dumbledore covered-up an attempted murder on a student and then forced the victim into silence while allowing the perpetrators to go by unscathed and spin half-truths that made themselves look good.
McGonagall sent kids into the Forbidden Forest at night, filled with rabid animals, as a punishment, and years later locked Neville out in the halls while an escaped (supposed) mass-murderer and terrorist was on the loose. She always grabbed Malfoy by the ear and dragged him at one point.
Hagrid mutilated Dudley because of something Dudley’s father said.
Trelawney took her frustrations with Umbridge out on the students by throwing books at them, in one case hitting Neville so hard, he was knocked back.
Flitwick (an English professor) made Seamus (an Irish student) compare himself to a baboon, which carries huge historical and ethnic implications.
Lupin was willing to risk the lives of his students and colleagues, not to mention the people of Hogsmeade by keeping it a secret how Sirius was moving around, all to protect his job and reputation. And later on, when planning to walk out on his pregnant wife and unborn child, when called out on it by Harry, Lupin physically attacked Harry and slammed him headfirst against the wall.
Dumbledore covered-up an attempted murder on a student and then forced the victim into silence while allowing the perpetrators to go by unscathed and spin half-truths that made themselves look good.
If your talking about the womping willow that was 10,000,000,000% snapes fault he chose to try and get past the tree, snape chose to listen to Sirius, snape chose to go down the tunnel where suspected a werewolf was waiting
McGonagall sent kids into the Forbidden Forest at night, filled with rabid animals, as a punishment
Under the supervision of the most physically powerful person at hogwarts
locked Neville out in the halls while an escaped
While the hallwa were heavily patrolled after the castle had been searched
Hagrid mutilated Dudley because of something Dudley’s father said.
A scene meant to be comical and was meant to be the bully getting a taste of his own medicine
Trelawney took her frustrations with Umbridge out on the students by throwing books at them, in one case hitting Neville so hard, he was knocked back.
Again snape attempted to poison a students pet and when he lost his temper at harry in OotP was throwing glass jars and curses at him
Flitwick (an English professor) made Seamus (an Irish student) compare himself to a baboon, which carries huge historical and ethnic implications.
No he made samus write lines after samus was being careless and "waving his wand like a baboon waves a stick
Lupin was willing to risk the lives of his students and colleagues, not to mention the people of Hogsmeade by keeping it a secret how Sirius was moving around, all to protect his job and reputation. And later on, when planning to walk out on his pregnant wife and unborn child, when called out on it by Harry, Lupin physically attacked Harry and slammed him headfirst against the wall.
Three points on this
1st. Lupin himself admits he was wrong to keep secrets
2nd. Again lupin admits he was wrong
3rd harry was an adult in the wizaring world and had just as much opportunity to descalate as lupin
> If your talking about the womping willow that was 10,000,000,000% snapes fault he chose to try and get past the tree, snape chose to listen to Sirius, snape chose to go down the tunnel where suspected a werewolf was waiting
Wow, nice victim-blaming there. No, Sirius gave Snape the information with malicious intent. By your logic, the girl in the boyfriend suicide case did nothing wrong. I mean, sure, the girl repeatedly told her boyfriend to commit suicide until the point that he actually did it, but he made the choice to take his own life, and the girl has no blame whatsoever, and should never have gone to jail, right?/s
> Under the supervision of the most physically powerful person at hogwarts
So you would be okay with a teacher sending a little kids to spend the night in the forest, surrounded by rabid wolves, bears, poisonous snakes, and other predators, as long as one adult is with them. An adult who left them alone, btw.
> While the hallwa were heavily patrolled after the castle had been searched
Cool, she still locked him outside while an mass-murderer was on the loose. If a teacher, as punishment, locked a student outside in the hallway while a school-shooter was on the loose, would you defend it on the grounds that "well, the hallways were being patrolled, so that makes it ok".
> A scene meant to be comical and was meant to be the bully getting a taste of his own medicine
Oh, so child-mutilation is ok as long as the child deserves it, is what your saying? Then if a story wrote a scene of sexual-assault, and it was treated as "comical", you would defend it? Because that's kinda what you're implying it. You're saying your issue isn't with the actions itself, but with who does the action and how the story treats it. Meaning you don't take an issue with any of Snape's actions, you just don't like Snape, and then try to justify that dislike after the fact by pointing to something he did. Tell me, if Snape "poisoning" Trevor and spiking a students drink was treated as comical, would you defend it?
> Again snape attempted to poison a students pet
It was supposed to be comical. The only reason it isn't treated as comical is because we read it from Harry's POV, and he has a huge bias against Snape for 99% of the story. Other than that, Neville would have deserved it and the scene would be comical.
> and when he lost his temper at harry in OotP was throwing glass jars and curses at him
After Harry disobeyed Snape's order and goes into his office and looks into his memories without permission. Would be like a teacher telling a student to wait outside the teacher's house, and instead the student breaks into the teacher's home, rummages around his house, and when the teacher comes back and finds the student, throws the student out, and says that the teacher is in the wrong, and not the student for breaking into the teacher's home and invading their privacy.
> No he made samus write lines after samus was being careless and "waving his wand like a baboon waves a stick
If if a White teacher made a Black teacher write on the board about being careless and "playing a swinging around like a monkey jumping from tree-branch to tree-branch", you would still defend it?
> Three points on this 1st. Lupin himself admits he was wrong to keep secrets 2nd. Again lupin admits he was wrong 3rd harry was an adult in the wizaring world and had just as much opportunity to descalate as lupin
Cool. Admitting that he was wrong doesn't change the fact that Lupin still did it and endangered everyone, which is worse than Snape's actions. It is not automatically erased because Lupin was caught and said "My bad".
Still did it, again.
Again, victim-blaming. If someone is calling you out on your shit is not escalating, it's holding you accountable. And even if it was, which it isn't Lupin still was the first one to engage in a physical attack. Tell me, if Snape was in Lupin's position, and Harry was calling him out on something, and Snape replied by physically attacking Harry, would you be saying "well, Harry is an adult and he escalated the situation with Snape."?
Sirius chose to tell Snape knowing full well what would happen if he did go down.He chose not to care for his friend's secret .
Under the supervision of the most physically powerful person at hogwarts
How's brute strenfth going to help at all?
While the hallwa were heavily patrolled after the castle had been searched
Then there was no reason why Neville cant have the password ?
A scene meant to be comical and was meant to be the bully getting a taste of his own medicine
Dudely had done literally noting there tho?I am sure by that definition we can pass off hernione's teeth off as a funny thing too. After all it too way less hassle for her to get it sorted than dudely
Lupin admitting he was wrong isn't gonna do much now is it? Also he never appologised for never mentioning the map to Dumbledore.The only reason the trio were alive was becuse Sirius turnedout to be a good guy.Also Harry was still only barely 17 and didn't attack Lupin. He had zero reasons to attack Harry when all of it was his fault to begin with .
Let me remind you that this was a School where it was deemed fit to send 11 yrs old to a first where they can die . With a person who can't do magic.
Also a one where boys were apparently called baboons
But we never talk about that.
And I think most Snape fans on reddit never claim that he was a saint. Just that he was a complex character who underwent a lot of change wand ultimately did way more good.
Because Snape lovers seem to worship him, and say that everything he does is all okay just because he was bullied as a kid too. The true answer is that he's a nuanced character, not a hero or a villain.
Um Alan rickmans performance is not the reason why most people including myself enjoy Snape. Most are really horny, or like emo men, or really intimidating characters, or like “evil” but secretly good characters or like older male characters. Alan just make Snape even better.
Also for most fans, book Snape ≠ movie Snape. But I like all versions of Snape 🙃
He didn’t bully children. He just made snide remarks. And many other professors made snide remarks.
He joined good side before Lily died. Because he asked Dumbledore to protect Lily and her family. Before she died. For a brilliant man, that was stupid. And in return, Dumbledore wanted him to be a triple agent (or is it double?) that was BEFORE she died. I think he even had doubts in the book if I wasn’t mistaken. And in death eater group he wasnt severely bullied like he was by the marauders.
I think as a half blood, he would took offence to the blood racism slurs. But as he grew up bullied and abused by his father, he was a pushover and didn’t do anything. Just like Harry when he was in the forbidden forest and he didn’t Protect himself against quirrel and he froze.
Also it’s said he regretted calling Lily the m slur as well and implied he tried to apologise and hated himself for it
Stop making assumptions. Accept people like characters you don’t like. Not everyone will like marauders (because most of us can see past the rich white boy facade and just see they are irredeemable asshole who bullied a poor kid for hanging around with a girl.)
Also when marauders hung Snape in the air and threatened to remove his trousers, Lily SMIRKED. And didn’t even try to defend him! Shes just as bad as they are. “Snape did denounce racism” LILY DIDNT ALWAYS DEFEND HIM. AND THATS WHAT FRIENDS ARE MEANT TO DO.
Not everyone will like the same characters you do. Accept it. You can’t change someone’s mind about ybeir favourite character. A lot of people are stubborn and really down bad. Like me. Not every Snape fan like him for the same reasons.
Also once a kid gets severely bullied as he got, they are never the same. And some still hold onto it, like me. Some are still traumatised. Like Snape. He may seem tough but thats just a facade so he doesn’t get badly tormented like he was by the marauders
Pulling someone’s pants down is considered sexual harassment. Even in the 70s.
(And I also hate how marauders fans like to fancast other actors as their favourite marauder because “the actor who played them was too ugly”. Like accept it. If your character is canonically ugly, thats your problem that they don’t fit your type. Obviously no offence to the actors.)
“I see no difference” to a 13-year old girl who was just cursed to have her teeth grow uncontrollably. He was a bully to children because a girl who’s entire birth was an affront to his master didn’t love him. Complex character? No. Little boy who only stopped doing evil for selfish reasons.
A bunch of teachers and adults in Hogwarts are far worse in their treatments of little children. Also, a bunch of characters and heroes in fiction only stopped being evil for selfish reasons. I am sure you hate all of them as much as Snape, if not more, right.
Exactly for both these examples! If Snape has no haters I am dead, this man was beyond vile, held awful views and bullied his students. He only became a spy when Lily's life was threatened, he did not care about James dying (not expecting him to be devastated over this loss, but years had passed since school and this was ultimately the man Lily had chosen) or Harry almost dying, a baby and Lily's son
Anyway, none of what you just said was true. He DID bully students. He threatened to poison Neville toad, said "I see no difference" when hermiones teeth were lengthened (causing her to cry) and he also called her an "insufferable know it all" for answering a question. Also, he was so bad that he was Nevilles boggart. That says enough. And, he said for LILY to be kept safe. He didnt give a shit about Harry or James. When he went to voldemort, he said to keep her alive, he was fully willing to let an infant Harry and James die. Not only that, him being bullied is fucked up. No doubt. But James matured, and joined the order of the phoenix, meanwhile snape joined a genocidal death cult because he was bullied. James>Snape ANY day of the week. Now, snape redeems himself in the end, I guess you can say that. But it doesnt excuse the fact he was an AWFUL professor. Bullying students, picking favorites, etc.
Now, for why people like him? Its personal reasons, cant debunk that. No denying that a lot of people are horny for older male characters, and anti heros are super interesting. Hes a good character, well written and very intriguing. Is he a good person? Yes and no. But his treatment of students is unacceptable. Most people have had teachers like that. It can permanently fuck up your schooling by making you DESPISE certain subjects. I had excellent history teachers in middle school, so now I LOVE history. Others aren't so lucky. My main gripes with him is how he was, objectively, a terrible teacher and thst was his main role for almost 20 years. He fucking sucks.
Also, yes, I agree that the marauders Fandom kinda sucks (especially wolfstar and jegulus fans) and it is toxic AF. Seriously, the marauders are cool, but wtf is up with drastically changing the characters out of nowhere? In the fanart I've seen, James looks significantly darker, Sirius looks like a masc lesbian, and in ATYD Remus is completely a different person. Also, the Fandom ignores the fact that Sirius is actually notably tall and doesnt have tattoos in the books. I really hate when Fandoms make headcanons and delude themselves so much to the point that they bully you and make you out to be the dumbass for not believing it.
> Anyway, none of what you just said was true. He DID bully students. He threatened to poison Neville toad, said "I see no difference" when hermiones teeth were lengthened (causing her to cry) and he also called her an "insufferable know it all" for answering a question. Also, he was so bad that he was Nevilles boggart. That says enough.
Most of the Hogwarts teachers bullied abused, or endangered their students. Many of them in ways far worse than Snape ever did.
> And, he said for LILY to be kept safe. He didnt give a shit about Harry or James. When he went to voldemort, he said to keep her alive, he was fully willing to let an infant Harry and James die.
The Harry part was fucked up, I agree, but Snape has no reason to care about James.
> But James matured, and joined the order of the phoenix, meanwhile snape joined a genocidal death cult because he was bullied.
Wow, the abuser was able to move on from their actions was the victim was left with the trauma. Let's give them a prize. Not to mention, the only people who say James "matured" are James best friends/co-bullies or people who are biased in James favor.
> But it doesnt excuse the fact he was an AWFUL professor. Bullying students, picking favorites, etc.
Then by your own logic, most of the Hogwarts professors are far more indefensible and awful than Snape ever was, and you should hate them far more than Snape.
> But his treatment of students is unacceptable.
The treatment of several students at the hands of the adults in Hogwarts is unacceptable.
> Most people have had teachers like that. It can permanently fuck up your schooling by making you DESPISE certain subjects. I had excellent history teachers in middle school, so now I LOVE history. Others aren't so lucky. My main gripes with him is how he was, objectively, a terrible teacher and thst was his main role for almost 20 years. He fucking sucks.
Several people have also had experiences similar to the ones other teachers at Hogwarts have had, actions far worse than Snape's.
> Also, yes, I agree that the marauders Fandom kinda sucks (especially wolfstar and jegulus fans) and it is toxic AF. Seriously, the marauders are cool, but wtf is up with drastically changing the characters out of nowhere? In the fanart I've seen, James looks significantly darker, Sirius looks like a masc lesbian, and in ATYD Remus is completely a different person. Also, the Fandom ignores the fact that Sirius is actually notably tall and doesnt have tattoos in the books. I really hate when Fandoms make headcanons and delude themselves so much to the point that they bully you and make you out to be the dumbass for not believing it.
Literally every single reason you just listed for hating the fandom has to do with the Marauders physical looks, and ot to do with their behavior or personality. Heck, you even state that you think they are cool, in spite of the fact that they tried to kill Snape for fun, (potentially) sexually-assaulted him, sexually-harassed Lily, bullies and attacked a bunch of students. That's all forgivable and makes them cool. Oh, but the teacher who is mean to his students is a monster, right?/s
I don't like snape, but I can stand by this. Great actor
Also, Movie Snape isn't written anywhere near as loathsome as Book Snape.
Yeah Alan Rickman portrayed Snape much more dignity and with a lot more gravitas than the book. Movie Snape always maintains his composure and never really raises his voice, even at his angriest. Book Snape is infinitely more slimy and malicious, with the occasional full-on screaming unhinged tirade.
Ob-vi-ous-ly
Rewatched the movies recently and Snape isn't even particularly mean to Harry early on outside the first scene in the first movie. He makes a few snide comments but most of his worst behavior from the books is almost completely omitted.
Doesn't that make him more compelling? I can only remember 2 instances where he lost his cool and both of them were very valid.
I also dont think he was Slimy and malicious ....more along the lines of petty and immature (kind of like Sirius).
Not to mention Movie Snape actually lost his cool and ended the occlumency lessons when Harry used protego while book Snape actually approved it and was only mad when Harry deliberatelysnooped.
You don't Snape in the books was malicious?
Movie Snape is probably why I like him so much as a character
I can't help but love characters who u know are absolutely awful sometimes. I need help lmaoYup, he also does stuff like uses his body to shield Ron, Harry and Hermione from a werewolf. In the book he was still unconscious.
He is a lot younger in the books, which people seem to forget. Book Snape is barely in his 30s so its more understandable for him to be more immature. He is a massive dick and stuck in highschool trauma, but it makes a bit more sense given his age.
Movie Snape also had a lost less trauma and a much flatter character.
Whilst I agree, you also have less Harry bias in the films compared to the books - so it’s not a like for like comparison.
Difference between him being a good character and being a good person
He’s more or less an anti hero in the novels but that’s what makes his character compelling.
i would say he is an anti-villain: he is not a good person, he is someone on a revenge-path, and joins the good guys just because the person he loved was a good person, and her killer is a bad guy.
That's hardly worthy of calling him anti-hero.
I find book Snape an intriguing character
He definitely was written as the single most intriguing character in the books imo.
Doesn’t make him a good guy :). (Not saying you believe this)
Doing good things at risk of your own life for the sake of their goodness doesn’t make someone good?
He outright saved Lupin’s life, a man he despises, in a battle both against Dumbledore’s orders and his own interest while risking his cover.
He goes out of his way to send rebellious students to Hagrid as “punishment” to spare them from the Carrows.
He outright tells Dumbledore that lately he has only watched those die who he could not save, meaning he has done his best to save all he could and/or deeply regrets it when he cannot.
If you believe he has murdered before (which evidence points to him not), then him bemoaning damaging his soul by killing Dumbledore would mean he has healed it with genuine remorse.
After he learns the truth that Harry must die, losing his original motivation to fight against Voldemort, he still continues on to do so despite having no incentive to. Genuinely believing in the cause.
Yes, he’s an asshole with a vicious tongue and a cruel streak. But to handwave away all his good actions is rather silly.
Is that you, Fenrir?
This response shows Dumbledore either at his most hilarious rage-bait nonsense or dementia addled mind.
I can see why people thought dumbledore has lost his mind if he listens to a person rant about Snape and arguing about his goodness (using evidence from books written with knowledge any normal canon character outside Harry or dumbledore or Snape himself shouldn’t know) and he proceeds to ask the person if he is Fenrir Greyback.
Well, the game is up. Would you like a written confession from me, or will a statement before these witnesses suffice?
Yeah, I rescind my statement. He’s a troll, confirmed.
“rant about Snape and arguing about his goodness (using evidence from books written with knowledge any normal canon character outside Harry or dumbledore or Snape himself shouldn’t know)“
I’m confused, what about my response constitutes a “rant” lol? I was neither angry nor impassioned in my comment.
What request could a Death Eater make of me?
Admittedly, probably not the best choice of words there but at the time it was what came to me. Not only did I think it wouldn’t offend anyone I also thought no one would see it since I was interacting with a bot.
Sorry for that
He never asked Dumbledore to keep her family safe, He asked for her to be kept safe. Things that were important to her were not important to him. Thus, it was not about her happiness, it was her availability.
Calm yourself, dear boy, you are a little behind the times.
Sometimes I swear this isn't actually a bot because these random messages always fit so well.
Rickman made women swoon for an incel he’s just that good
Love how the guy who threatens the girl who rejects him is the great and handsome saviour, and the one who left her alone is the incel lmao
He doesn't threaten her. He's actually pretty chill about it considering how consistently he's portrayed as having a bad temper. It's also implied once she tells him to f off that he does.
You don't have to like the character. You certainly don't have to morally condone the character. But let's not make up facts about what did or didn't happen
He threatened to hex her on the lake scene and also told her he'll leave Snape alone if they go out. Does that sound like good behavior?
I thought Severus in the book said “hide them all” if it meant saving Lily AFTER it was made clear that it couldn’t just be Lily.
I belive he said keep her-them - safe. And even before that he never said about protting only Lily. Dumbledore was putting words in his mouth when he asked if he asked him if he couldn't have asked Voldemort to spare Lily. Idkhow anyone expects him to ask Voldemort to spare Harry.
Help will always be given at Hogwarts to those who ask for it.
He asked to keep her safe. Dumbledore said what of her son, her husband. Only then did he say to hide them all. He didn’t care about them, only her.
After all this time?
Always
It hurts.
Dumbledore actually asked if Snape couldn't haveasked voldemort and he said he did and then he was cut off by a disgusted a Dumbledore who asked if that meant he cared nothing for her son and husband. At which point he asked Dumbledore to keep all of them safe.
Thieving is not tolerated at Hogwarts.
To be fair, while the Harry part was shitty, I don’t see why Snape should care about James after everything James put him through.
To be fair, while the Harry thing was messed up, no doubt, I fail to see why Snape should care about James.
I mean asking Voldemort to spare Harry doesn't even make sense. Like snape already knows it's such a huge ask just to ask for Lily that he's gone to Dumbledore believing its fruitless to expect mercy from Voldemort. Asking him to spare Harry is honestly just kind of gibberish.
I prefer not to put all of my secrets in one basket, particularly not a basket that spends so much time dangling on the arm of Lord Voldemort.
Asking Voldemort to save Lily was already a big ask. However, since Voldemort assumed the reason to be lust, it wasn’t an ask that would get him killed and tortured.
Asking him to save Harry and James as well would have outed him as disloyal and gotten him killed or worse. And why, in the first place, would young Snape ask him to spare James, who sexually assaulted him, almost got him mauled by a werewolf, and blamed him for existing while poor? As for Harry, Voldemort had already decided to kill him. Inexperienced 21-year-old Snape was in no position to stop him.
So by your definition every single pantsing and wedgie qualifies as sexual assault? Fuck outta here. You’re diluting the term and minimizing what people who have actually been sexually assaulted have gone through
If you’d checked my comment history, you’d know that I was SA’d by a middle aged man at 16.
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you had no idea.
I’m from a culture where pantsing is not a thing, and I’ve never witnessed one. However, I do think it would be considered ‘seksuell handling uten samtykke’, i.e. sexual assault if it were to happen here.
Is it by any chance possible that we’re using the term to mean two different things? I distinguish between rape and sexual assault, where sexual assault is a physical, non-consensual act which sexually harms, threatens or humiliates the victim. I’d say that grabbing, derobing and exposing someone against their will is sexual assault, while obviously not being rape.
Ya know, that’s fair. I was probably a bit out of line there. And I’m sorry that happened to you.
Agreed
You conveniently forget that it was Snape who developed Levicorpus and that he used it on people so often it became a "fashion spell", where James learned it.
Cool. Doesn't change the fact that James still used it, and then went a step further. If Person A buys a gun, and then Person B steals that gun, puts a bullet in it, and shoots Person A with it, is Person B all of a sudden not guilty of attempted murder simply because the gun he used belongs to the victim?
Yes, it does. Quick question, if a guy grabbed a girl, pinned her down to the ground, ripped off her skirt, then hair panties, and spread her legs and exposed her genitalia in public for everyone to see, would you be arguing "That's not sexual-assault! It's just a prank, bro!"
Seems to me that this is more of a case of you being an apologist over the matter simply because you like the sexual-predator and hate the victim.
Is the guy in question not sexually interested in girl? and any people around not sexually interested in said girl? oh, and also we shoud've stopped only on showing panties, we dont know if genitalias were in fact exposed...
You are manipulating people using the girl in your example, because we all used to the fact that women often treated like sexual object, men - are not. Im sure noone in this scene was sexually interested in Snape, so it is not sexual assault, but it is stil an assault. Ngl cant comprehend why you guys cant sympathize with Snape without pinning SA here
So, as long as there is not sexual interest, then it doesn’t qualify as sexual-assault? If a guy did that to the girl, if he isn’t sexually interested in her, it isn’t sexual-assault to you? That’s not how it works.
We don’t know if Snape showed his genitals, yes, which is why I added. And yes, I am adding women, because, unfortunately, a lot of people hold the mentality that men can’t be sexually-assaulted, or that it’s not as bad as when it happens to men, so I reversed the genders to showcase people’s hypocrisy and bigotry.
I can’t sympathize with Snape without it being sexual-assault. But it likely was sexual-assault based on what James said he was going to do next.
He exposed his dick in public without consent, that is SA lmao. It's people like u that make it difficult for victims because if it doesn't fit ur narrative it's not SA lmao.
No, he did not. Read the fucking books, for fuck's sake, and stop spreading misinformation. This is like the fifth post I've seen claiming that James exposed Snape's private parts. For crying out loud. What's wrong with you people?
As Luke Skywalker infamously once said... Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.
Using Levicorpus on someone is not the same as sexual assault and it sounds a bit despicable when someone compares the two. (Plus: that spell was invented by Severus himself.) Sirius was the one who told Snape to go to the Shrieking Shack where Remus was; James was the one who saved Snape's life, that's why Snape was protecting Harry in book one. And as for "blaming him for existing"? "While poor"? Are you for real? Go read that chapter one more time.
You’re right that it was Sirius, rather than James, that told Snape to go to the Shrieking Shack, so that was a pretty poor example to use. Good catch!
If I remember correctly, ‘Because he exists’ was the Marauders’ (verbatim) reason for hexing Severus. The phrasing stuck with me, as it seemed oddly callous and privileged. I’d also say that being exposed half naked for humiliation purposes against one’s will is in fact sexual assault. We don’t know why Snape invented levicorpus, but he may have intended it for reactive use only.
James was not "blaming" Severus "for existing" "while poor." James was being a bully, which by definition is the same as being a jerk. An immature, fifteen-year-old full of himself who everyone in Hogwarts idolized. That quickly went to his head. We can all agree that James's behavior in that single chapter was reprehensible to say the least.
"What's he done to you?" said Lily. "Well, it's more the fact that he exists, if you know what I mean..." said James, playing it for laughs (which he got). Snape was a pain in his ass, and yes, he probably picked on Snape because Snape was odd. But Snape was also a Slytherin (Gryffindor's rival house) and a proto-Death Eater who had absolutely no problem calling Muggle-borns "Mudbloods" to their faces.
Remus was not precisely a rich kid and James not only never picked on him because of it, but he was also the first person to reach out to Remus when Remus had no one. And I think we can also agree that Remus was the most miserable student in Hogwarts at that time for obvious reasons.
James was an asshole at 15, sure. But he was also brave, generous (he helped Sirius run away from his abusive, bigoted family), and altruistic. And he grew up. He matured. He joined the Order of the Phoenix and faced Voldemort three times. He died without a wand in his hand trying to buy Lily time to escape. That's the man Lily fell in love with.
Snape wasn't naked. And yes, Levicorpus is a very humiliating curse. What it is not is sexual assault.
I've read your other comment, and it appears that you hold a different definition of sexual assault than mine. Fair enough. From my point of view, calling what happened between Snape and the Marauders "sexual assault" diminishes the true impact of real sexual assault which is one of the most horrible and heinous crimes anyone can commit. Starting with the fact that there was nothing sexual about it in this scenario.
And we do know why a proto-Death Eater was inventing curses in his spare time. In fact, right next to Levicorpus he wrote "Sectumsempra: for enemies." So, yeah, forgive me if I don't give Snape the benefit of the doubt.
That is not to say that I don't find Severus Snape a fascinating character and one of the most complex of the whole book series. But it really gets on my nerves when some people defend the indefensible aspects of the character.
> James was not "blaming" Severus "for existing" "while poor...
"Well, the character said this, but he didn't really mean it, despite the fact that he literally said so."
> ...But Snape was also a Slytherin (Gryffindor's rival house) and a proto-Death Eater who had absolutely no problem calling Muggle-borns "Mudbloods" to their faces.
No, let's stop with this whole "James hated Snape because of the dark arts". It wasn't. He even reminisces about how it was the best time of his life.
James hated Snape for literally no reason other than the fact that he "existed" as James himself stated, because he got off on hurting him, and because he was jealous of Snape's relationship with Lily, as Rowling, the author of the story herself, stated. None of it was done out of some misplaced altruistic reasons.
> Remus was the most miserable student in Hogwarts at that time for obvious reasons.
No, he wasn't. He was literally having the time of his life and was part of the most popular group of people in Hogwarts, with special treatment and protection from Dumbledore himself. Lupin even reminisces it and talks about how that was the time of his life.
> And he grew up. He matured...
The only people who ever say he grew up are literally either his best friends, or people who are biased in his favor. And as for Lily, according to Rowling, Lily was always secretly attracted to James, even when he was an asshole and a bully.
> Snape wasn't naked. And yes, Levicorpus is a very humiliating curse. What it is not is sexual assault.
> I've read your other comment, and it appears that you hold a different definition of sexual assault than mine...
Levicorpus by itself wouldn't qualify as sexual-assault. It's what James likely did after of removing Snape's underwear in order to exposes his genitals in public, that makes it sexual-assault.
If a guy were to lift girl who was wearing a skirt up by her ankles, and because of gravity, her panties are being shown, that would not be sexual-assault. However, if the guy then went on to rip off her panties and expose her genitalia in public for everyone to see, THEN it would be sexual-assault, and that is likely what James did to Snape.
> And we do know why a proto-Death Eater was inventing curses in his spare time. In fact, right next to Levicorpus he wrote "Sectumsempra: for enemies." So, yeah, forgive me if I don't give Snape the benefit of the doubt.
Sectumsempra for my enemies. Said enemies involve a group of people, one of whom tried to murder him and the other who (potentially) sexually-assaulted him, all for their own amusement. This would be like saying if a girl bought a pocket-knife to use on the group who tried to murder her and sexually-assaulted her, and then said "I don't give her the benefit of the doubt because she bought a knife".
> That is not to say that I don't find Severus Snape a fascinating character and one of the most complex of the whole book series. But it really gets on my nerves when some people defend the indefensible aspects of the character.
But you're kinda doing the same with James.
I do love knitting patterns.
Oh, you again. This is the most braindead response I've gotten so far from a Snape apologist. Bring back the other Redditor, I was having a more pleasant discussion with them.
The only reason you label it braindead is because it disproves all of your points and shows your favorite characters for having done the messed up things they did.
Yeah that's it. Not your wild defense of snape the creepy stalker who can't get over his one-sided crush.
Oh, wow, so now you’re making up more stuff. Funny you should call Snape a stalker, and leaves Lily alone the moment she ends their friendship and asks him to never talk to her again, which is the exact opposite of the definition of a stalker.
Sirius didn't even tell snape to go there, snape was already looking to get past the tree, all Sirius did was say your funeral and told him how to feeze the tree
And Snape wouldn’t have managed without Sirius telling him how to do so. If a person is trying to get into a house, and you give them the key, knowing that the house will explode the moment the door is opened, you’re still guilty of murder. At best it’s manslaughter. And considering that Sirius had malicious intentions when informing Snape, Sirius is guilty of attempted murder, and the only reason he didn’t go to Azkaban is because Dumbledore covered-up after him.
Tell me about the Quidditch World Cup.
No one held a want to snapes head and forced him in that tunnel, no one cast imperio on him snape CHOSE to stalk lupin and madame pomfree snape CHOSE to try and get past the tree snape CHOSE to listen to Sirius (who he had no reason to believe or trust) snape CHOSE to go into the tunnel where he suspected a fulky changed werewolf to be waiting stop taking away snapes agency
Cool, Sirius still gave Snape the information to do it with malicious intentions. This is like the boyfriend suicide case, where the girlfriend repeatedly told the boyfriend to kill himself, and when the boy finally did take his own life, saying “the girlfriend holds absolutely no blame. The guy choice was his own, so the girlfriend should absolutely not take any blame and should never have gone to jail for the death of her boyfriend”, despite the courts finding the girlfriend responsible for the death of the boy.
No its like the boyfriend keeps threatening to kill himself and the fed up girlfriend finally says fine do it then, again everything that lead up to it was SNAPE making CHOICES at any point snape could have just says screw this and walk away but he was determined to out lupin
Except he didn't. James did (potentially) sexually-assault Snape. It was the act of Levicorpus that made it sexual-assault, it was that James then potentially went a step further and removed Snape's underwear in order to exposes his genitals in public. If a guy were to lift girl who was wearing a skirt up by her ankles, and because of gravity, her panties are being shown, that would not be sexual-assault. However, if the guy then went on to rip off her panties and expose her genitalia in public for everyone to see, THEN it would be sexual-assault, and that is likely what James did to Snape.
Also, James did bully Snape for existing. He literally says so. Not to mention James bullies a bunch of people because he thinks it's funny. And Rowling literally said that another reason James bullied Snape was because he saw Snape as a romantic threat for Lily's affections. So unless you're saying everyone in the book and the author herself is wrong, that is very much why James bullied Snape and others.
Yeah... that never happened.
It's explicitly stated in the book that Snape's "pair of greying underpants" are revealed under his robes when James uses Levicorpus on him RIGHT AFTER Snape attacked him with a curse when James wasn't looking. "Snape had directed his wand straight at James; there was a flash of light and a gash appeared on the side of James's face, spattering his robes with blood."
Now stop with the fucking sexual assault shit. It's not funny. It never was.
It was a stupid joke made by a stupid teenager to impress his crush. Seriously, it never ceases to amaze me the lack of media literacy some people have.
Source?
Yeah, you'll need to back all those claims up, my friend.
Don't put words in my mouth. The burden of proof is on you on this one. Go ahead and back it up.
James SAVED Snape from the Werewolf incident and did not cause it (that was Sirius, and we know that Snape had already assumed Lupin to be a werewolf before and STILL was stupid enough to go after Sirius told him "lol if you wanna find out come to the Shack"), and he did not sexually assault him, jfc. Also, James was friends with both Lupin and Peter, both of which came from non-wealthy backgrounds, he didn't hate on Snape because Snape was poor, but because Snape was a smelly blood purist who'd personally developed killing spells at age 15.
James absolutely did sexually-assault him. And he did hate Snape because James existed, not because Snape was blood-purist. He hated him and bullied him, along with others, because he took pleasure in hurting Snape, and because, as Rowling herself said, he saw Snape as a romantic threat for Lily.
Let's stop with this "James had altruistic reasons for all the bad things he did". He didn't.
"OMG I CAN'T BE RACIST I HAVE BLACK FRIENDS" lmao. Also, didn't James and Sirius suspect Lupin first of being a traitor? Also, Lupin and Peter's status is fannon. We know Lupin is poor as an adult, but that does not equate to him being the same as a child. Yeah, and Snape made those spells because he had the Marauders, his assailants and stalkers, harassing him. Also, exposing someone's privates without permission, especially in a public setting, is SA. But seeing as u handed off Sirius' faults to Snape in the SS incident, u might just enjoy victim blaming. Do u, per chance, ask rape victims what they were wearing when they were raped? Or do you say people who walk on a dangerous street deserve to get assaulted in any way?
As a SA survivor and sex worker, I can differentiate lmao. The traitor suspicions came up only shortly before the Potters' death, too, and had nothing to do with their situation at school.
Snape was no interested in getting together with Lily. If he was, he would never have agreed to Dumbledore's terms.
And while I do admit the Harry part was fucked up, Snape has no reason to care about James after everything James did to him.
I have no time to explain now. It is a thrilling tale, I wish to do it justice.
Makes all the difference
I mean I like Snape because he's not really a good person, but he has a solid redemption. He's just so complicated. I don't deny any of his actions
Except one: I think that his love for Lily was platonic. But because she was the only person to ever care about him, he still put her on a pedestal.) That's just my headcanon based on the books though. And their relationship would still be super unhealthy.
I also like Dumbledore and Sirius because they, too, are pretty complex.
Thieving is not tolerated at Hogwarts.
I mean id agree IF he didn't destroy and steal part of a photo of her and the part of the letter that said "love lily" 20 years after not seeing her
I didn’t like movie Snape because he was 30 years older, had absolutely different physique and they chopped off his mean lines. I like book Snape - he was intriguing, complex, broken character that inspires so many discussions.
Early movie snape was legit. But the movies rapidly lost time for anything beyond action and explosion as we race forward to the next plot point.
Meh I liked Snape before the films. After the red herring in philosophers stone kind of trusted the process. Figured he was a nuanced character learning about the Marauders and him sealed the grey dynamic when he killed Dumbledore was huge believer in the theory (actually correct) it was Dumbledores plan. Alan was great and I do like his portrayal but I liked snape in the books more grey characters are my favorite those with reasons for their flaws. Sev had a rough childhood and unfortunately went down a dark path didn't help the Marauders bullied him say what you want for their reasons 4v1 is cowardly no matter how you justify it. And I say that as a Sirius fangirl, Marauders were douches as teens.
I am glad to see you're keeping up.
Love book snape way more. He had every right to be a villain and yes I know. He choose to help for the "wrong" reasons, but he still choose to do so. And let's not forget (we made not know his true motives) but I mean hes head of Slytherin and an ex death eater. If he truly felt disdain towards students it's one thing. But what if he didn't and had to put up a front. Also the way he acts during potions. It's very dangerous and I would be mean too. But in all seriousness.. he was a jerk. Still love him though. A Very Morally Ambiguous Character
It's not so about Alan Rickman's performance alone. It's Alan Rickman's performance of a fairly admirable character. The writers transformed Snape to a different person in the movies (apart from the first 2 movies the least). The movie Snape was meant to be liked - loved, admired and respected by the end of the series. Alan Rickman did a brilliant portrayal of that. Now, Alan Rickman playing a book accurate Snape (if so the movie writers did) might have made only-movies fans hate Snape equally as much as they love him now.
Snape: steps over a man’s corpse and ignores a BLEEDING/crying/starving infant in order to manhandle the corpse of a woman who rejected him
Thwt never happened in the books, he never actually saw them after they died besides maybe a funeral?
The sub is HarryPotterMemes not HarryPotterBooksOnlyMemes. Movie canon is valid to comment on too.
Yeah, just pointing out that it didn't happen in the books. I actually liked the movie change, as it implies that snape was planning on going there to stop voldemort from killing the potters
Or it implies that Snape went there to take Lily from Voldemort after Voldemort killed her husband and son.
Redditors just always assume they know more than everyone else huh?
And does it?? It seems to me just as likely that he was lying in wait for Voldemort to kill Lily's husband & son so he can swoop in and "retrieve" her, or at least watch it happen.
But I'm open to that idea I guess... was there other evidence that he planned on confronting him then? I guess I don't understand why he would go through all the trouble of telling him the prophesy and asking for her life only if he was going to confront him anyway? Plus why would he wait until after they died to to so??? I'm not doubting, I just don't really get how it could be possible?
Um what? Tf you throwing a stray at me for?! I agreed with you bruh
And it can. Since snape talked to voldemort, asked him to spare her life. He refused. Doesn't take a genius to figure out what voldemort was gonna do next. So, I guess its likely that he was trying to stop him. Since he showed up right after they died. If I had to guess, he was just too late. Probably because he went to dumbledore first to ask him to hide them, and then went to the potters house? Idk. I like the change, but its definitely confusing.
I must say, your agapanthus are flourishing.
Thanks bro
Harry was bleeding??
Probably. He had a scar, scars come from wounds.
Burns don't typically bleed. Also it's a magical scar from a soul getting yeeted into his body so idk why you're acting like normal rules apply anyway
He's not shown as bleeding in the movie
I mean, it was an open wound that scarred. Its likely je was bleeding. Im not a scar expert
Well... Scar do tend to bleed before becoming a scar
It's a magical mark from a soul entering his body not an actual laceration
I always envision that scene with book Snape giving a snide grin when he sees James corpse and giving it an incidental kick as he steps over it.
Loool ironic you should say that seeing as that was MOVIE Snape.
These meme is literally about movie Snape...
The sub is HarryPotterMemes not HarryPotterBooksOnlyMemes. Movie canon is valid to comment on too.
It was a cringe movie scene that I refuse to accept as canon. I like book Snape only.
Me when I blatantly phrase something so as to show it in the worst, most context-erasing light possible
Snape for all his faults was a victim of shitty parents and people like James and Sirius who tortured him for the hell of it. The whole reason he falls into Death eaters is because they are the only people that are actually nice to him other than Lily. He was a shitty teacher no doubt.
He joined the side of Dumbledore before Lilys death btw. He then also following her death devoted himself to trying to keep Harry Safe despite his dislike of him and the animosity between them
He didn’t denounce it because he was an impressionable young man who’s only friends… the only people who actually hung out with him regularly were that group. It was shitty but that’s literally all he had… then years later to maintain the facade of being that - He had to pretend to still hold those views despite actually doing everything he could to protect students from Death Eaters.
People like him because he was a complex well written character who had a solid redemption arc despite his flaws. Alan Rickman was legendary which helped but Snape being an interesting character in and of himself is why people like him. I wouldn’t say he is cool, but I think he is an interesting character.
You remember the shape and color of Lily Evansís eyes, I am sure?
Harry too was a victim of being under sh!tty guardians but he didn’t grew up to become a death eater, bully and a racist, did he?
Harry was also immensely popular from day one and had the favour of multiple teachers… Snape did not.
Harry received the favor of Dumbledore and a bunch of Hogwarts students, and was popular from the moment he stepped foot on the Hogwarts Express, while Snape was being bullied by the popular kids everyone liked, and had Dumbledore literally covering-up a bunch of the Marauders crimes, including an attempted murder on him, and then forcing him into silence over the matter.
There is much that I would like to say to you all tonight, but I must first acknowledge the loss of a very fine person, who should be sitting here, enjoying our feast with us. I would like you all, please, to stand, and raise your glasses, to Cedric Diggory.
If Harry had been bullied severely by a bunch of well-liked kids at Hogwarts, hadn’t gotten to know the Weasleys, and had been sorted into Slytherin with Hermione in Gryffindor as his only friend, that might very well have happened.
Also, Harry presumably had an okay infancy until Voldemort attacked. Snape may have been abused and neglected even at that stage. He’s a human, humans are mammals, and pretty much all mammals will be severely socially affected by being abused as infants.
Not just his performance the movies just removed alot of Snape being overly rude, unjustly punishing and supreme bias , hes just kinda an asshole in the movies, book snapes like “you fuck this up and your toad dies neville”
Oh, yeah…this is not true. I like Snape, and it is definitely not because of Alan Rickman’s performance. I like him individually.
I'm going to be honest here, saying that fans only like Snape would be like saying that character any character, including superheroes, is liked solely because of the actor. Because almost everything listed here is something the a bunch of beloved heroes are guilty of, if not worse. Let's do a review.
Dumbledore was the original wizard-Nazi, having created the movement alongside Grindelwald, and was planning on leading it until Grindelwald attacked his family and cost Dumbledore his sister. And later on, Dumbledore covered-up an attempted murder on a student and then forced the victim into silence while allowing the perpetrators to go by unscathed and spin half-truths that made themselves look good. people must only like Dumbledore because he reminds them of their sweet grandpa or Santa Claus.
McGonagall sent kids into the Forbidden Forest at night, filled with rabid animals, as a punishment, and years later locked Neville out in the halls while an escaped (supposed) mass-murderer and terrorist was on the loose. She always grabbed Malfoy by the ear and dragged him at one point. People only like her because of Maggie Smith.
Hagrid mutilated Dudley because of something Dudley’s father said. People only like Hagrid because of Robbie Coltrane
Trelawney took her frustrations with Umbridge out on the students by throwing books at them, in one case hitting Neville so hard, he was knocked back. People only like her because of Emma Thompson
Flitwick (an English professor) made Seamus (an Irish student) compare himself to a baboon, which carries huge historical and ethnic implications. People only like him because they like Warwick Davis
Lupin was willing to risk the lives of his students and colleagues, not to mention the people of Hogsmeade by keeping it a secret how Sirius was moving around, all to protect his job and reputation. And later on, when planning to walk out on his pregnant wife and unborn child, when called out on it by Harry, Lupin physically attacked Harry and slammed him headfirst against the wall. People only like him because of David Thewlis and because he's a Marauders.
Let's move to other characters in fiction.
Iron Man was a weapons-profiteer who only changed his ways after his weapons were used against him. People only like him because of RDJ.
MCU Thor committed mass-murder against an innocent race for a crime they didn't commit. People only like him because they think Chris Hemsworth is hot.
Natasha is literally one of the world's biggest war-criminals (and continued committing war-crimes after changing sides), who was bombing little children and set a children hospital on fire, burning little kids and their doctors and family alive, among other things. They only like her because Scarlet Johansson is hot.
MCU Wanda was literally a HYDRA operative (with ties to Nazi Germany) who sided with Ultron and unleashed the Hulk on civilians, killing dozens and injuring many more. Only like her because she's played by Elizabeth Olson.
Spider-Man was willing to let people be victimized by crime because it didn't affect him, and Iron Man only stopped producing weapons of mass-destruction when he was hit by those weapons. People only like him because of Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield.
It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live, remember that.
Literally this
https://preview.redd.it/9lwa8qkspv9g1.jpeg?width=558&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99220e8f66e81d9bdf2ad57481bdc94566662aa5
A person has flaws? That’s insane. Every other character is absolutely perfect
You didn’t get it, did you? Nobody is talking about “flaws” its about how the movie fans love Snape because they don’t know the “Real- book Snape” The movies changed his character to a point that fans believe he was a good person whereas the book Snape was despicable and the revelation shown in his memories did NOT change that.
You dont't get it do you? Book fans like him as well
I’ve read the books and watched the movies. Take it easy. Snape redeemed all his faults but being an undercover agent for 15 years
Yeah by bullying kids sure. He basically wanted harry and James dead but sure
No he didnt lol. He Cant ask for Harry's life to voldemort can he
He didn’t, but sure
Don't forget that he would have been totally cool if Voldy had murdered James and baby Harry and given him Lily to be his little muggle-born pet.
Snape didn't "love" Lily. He was infatuated with her, he lusted after, and coveted her. He did not care about her. He viewed her as an object, not as a person.
Snape is NOT a redeemable character and I will fucking die on this hill.
The epilogue is non-canon in my opinion because Harry would never be so stupid as to name one of his children after the man that bullied him his whole life because he was denied the ability to turn his mother into a rape slave.
Fuck Snivellus.
How can you claim that he was infatuated/lusting after her/coveting her? That sounds more like James during their school days to me. He wasn't in her life for several years and had come to peace with it somewhat while thinking of her as the one who got away, because, yk she was the only person who ever bothered seeing him as a person. And he lost that, due to his own fault, which he regretted but ultimately accepted. When he learned that she was in danger, it was a wake up call to him and he switched sides to ensure her safety because, again, only person to ever care about him. He didn't expect her to get with him after or anything. Why would he?
Well, he is not rich or handsome like James, so he HAS to be the creep even though James had 2 instruments in his possession, which is great for being a creep.
I'd also like to add that if that famous fanon about "victorian flower language" was actually intended by JKR, the first thing Snape says to Harry is "I bitterly regret Lily's death", who, yknow, died to save Harry. So what he says to him is "sucks that you're here and she's not".
I don't know what yall expected him to say to Voldmort. Dont kill the boy who is prophesied to kill you one day??
Snape was never planning on getting together with Lily, this is simply something that Dumbledore assumed. If being with Lily was truly Snape’s objective, he would have never agreed to Dumbledore’s terms of also saving James and Harry.
Also, funny you try to pain Snape wanting to rape Lily, when, canonically, James and the Weasley twins show far more instances of being sexual predators.
You can die on that hill, but know that your hill is literally made up of fanfiction that was disproven by the story.
I would assume that you were going to offer me refreshment, but the evidence so far suggests that that would be optimistic to the point of foolishness.
Both Snape and Dumbledore are more strategic than they are ethical.
Think back. Remember what he did, in his ignorance, in his greed and his cruelty.
We are kin. We will share this hill.
Yup.
Snapes feelings for Lily are solely about him. Not her, not what he could do for her, or how he could make her feel, or how she felt. Just him.
It's like every 80s teen romance movie male protagonist. It's entirely about how good the woman would make them feel and how much they are entitled to it or deserve it. If only she would love me...!
"Always." 🤮🤮🤮
And the fact harry said he was one of the greatest men he ever knew showed me that jk rowling had a fucked up brain even then lmao. like sure let’s forgive him I guess but… no normal human would like him let alone HONOR him after everything he did???
Conter point
HuRt PeOpLe HuRt PeOpLe!
I disagree.
Alan Rickman did a good job of bringing this dislikeable character to life and really acted mean and surly.
If you're saying that the movies are the reason that he's so well liked then that's on the director not the actor.
Read the books and you'll understand why fans love Snape
I mean it's like every character. The marauders nearly killed him and yet the only one who gets called out is Peter pettigrew
Wtf they did not nearly kill him. Lupin was unaware of everything, James SAVED him, Peter wasn't involved and as far as we know, all Sirius did was go like "ffs just come to the Shack if you wanna know so badly" AFTER Snape already assumed that Lupin was a werewolf!
Yes, Sirius absolutely did try to kill Snape. He gave Snape the information of how to find werewolf Lupin with malicious intent behind him, and even years later, when Lupin recounts how Snape nearly died because of Sirius, Sirius replies that Snape deserved it for trying to get him expelled.
Protecting Harry his entire life makes up for all of that.
You mean being coerced by the strongest wizard alive to do so? After getting Harry’s parents killed? While being an irredeemable asshole to Harry? No, it doesn’t
It doesn’t
Racism? Because the same family can't have magic and non-magical people. A different word would have been more approporiate, but I at least get the idea.
And I agree that Rickman's Snape was amazing. And I'm very curious what series Snape will be like. I wonder if they'll make him more antagonistic. I'd be okay with that. He doesn't need to be the same as movie Snape.
Tell me you didn’t read the books without telling me you didn’t read the books.
I'm saying the word is wrong. Wizards and muggles are not unique races. 😒 So, it's not racism. But it IS a kind of bias.
I mean, if you wanna separate them that way, I guess you can headcanon that. But I find it somewhat problematic as it falls in with the pureblood ideology. The only people who really view muggles as "others" are people like Voldemort. And we know the Death Eaters are magical stand-ins for Nazis. Their views of muggles are not unlike some real life views of various groups by those who thought they were superior. While race does not have to include solely genetic differences (because nowadays we see that people are more similar than dissimilar, and because many genetically disparate groups might be lumped together so that the idea of "race" becomes fuzzy when you examine it), I believe that it is the way it would be meant here.
Voldemort views muggles as things which are as different from wizards as cats are from dogs. Some superficial similarities and that's about it. But what's odd is that you can have muggles and wizards in the same household, among full blood relations. Full siblings can include both magic and non-magic individuals. If you view muggles and wizards as racially distinct, then you necessarily are separating even households along racial lines, when they are otherwise the same.
There is a genetic component to magic, though. There is a magic gene. It can appear in anyone of any "race," provided they descend from at least one individual who already carried it. It can skip many generations and seemingly come out of nowhere.
It vaguely reminds me of blue eyes, lol. Supposedly, nearly everybody in the world with blue eyes descends from the same single person--the first person with blue eyes caused by the specific gene mutation seen today. If a full sibling of mine doesn't have blue eyes and I do, would we be considered different races because they did not inherit that one trait? Maybe, but it feels far fetched to me.
lmao didn't denounce racism , classic reddit
Well he did call her the wizarding worlds worst slur
Are we talking about Book Snape or movie Snape? I am confused here. I think a lot of things where changed about his character in the movies
It helps that movie Snape is written to be much less abusive and way more likeable.
The only time I didn't like Rickman's character was in Love Actually. 😂
Allen rickman you were named one of the greatest professor in Hogwarts
Yes, this is mainly because the movie Snape was never that much hateworthy anyway. There are many random book moments not included in the movies in which Snape is an absolute asshole without any reason. And okay, Harry was the son of James, but he bullies all Gryffindor students including Neville (whose parents are in St. Mungos' because of death eaters) and Hermione (intelligent, and a muggle born). He also let go of many problems caused by Slytherin students.
I am a fan of Snape, but I don't think of him as a saint. He's just a good character.
I feel like the more I grow up the more crankier i become, but also as I grow up, it feels so disgusting seeing grown ass man bullying children like that. Especially when i imagine someone treating my niece and nephews the way Snape treats his students
Alan Rickman had an incredible talent for making the most disgusting and detestable people likeable.
Bruh i thought this was about Alan Rickman for a sec 😂
So Snape was totally fine with Voldemort killing James and Harry but asked him to spare Lilly. He even showed up at Godric's Hollow immediately after their murder just to see if Lilly was still alive.
If Voldemort did spare Lilly, what would Snape have done then? Show up at Godric's Hollow immediately and say something like "Hey Lilly, I see you're single now... wanna grab a cup of coffee sometime"?
I will never understand why Snaters thinkbtheyvare the only ones who have read the book
Edit:Ah it seems I have offended that part of the Fandom. Again. We let me add insult to injury by saying that a Snape fan usually had far more book examples for liking the character the Snaters who often spam the same thing.
There you can downvote me some more now.
Because people either ignore or downplay all of snapes worse moments "he had to bully 11 year olds because he was under cover its totally ok he tried to poison a students pet because it was part of his cover, it dosent matter he mocked a 13 year old girls appearance while she was in pain because because she was always obnoxious"
By that logic, Marauders fan, or even the fans of most Hogwarts adults, have only seen the movies, because they downplay the actions of a lot of them, many who behaved in ways worse than Snape.
Worse than being an adult teacher in your 30s attempting to poison one students pet and threatening to spike another students drink?
Yes.
Dumbledore covered-up an attempted murder on a student and then forced the victim into silence while allowing the perpetrators to go by unscathed and spin half-truths that made themselves look good.
McGonagall sent kids into the Forbidden Forest at night, filled with rabid animals, as a punishment, and years later locked Neville out in the halls while an escaped (supposed) mass-murderer and terrorist was on the loose. She always grabbed Malfoy by the ear and dragged him at one point.
Hagrid mutilated Dudley because of something Dudley’s father said.
Trelawney took her frustrations with Umbridge out on the students by throwing books at them, in one case hitting Neville so hard, he was knocked back.
Flitwick (an English professor) made Seamus (an Irish student) compare himself to a baboon, which carries huge historical and ethnic implications.
Lupin was willing to risk the lives of his students and colleagues, not to mention the people of Hogsmeade by keeping it a secret how Sirius was moving around, all to protect his job and reputation. And later on, when planning to walk out on his pregnant wife and unborn child, when called out on it by Harry, Lupin physically attacked Harry and slammed him headfirst against the wall.
If your talking about the womping willow that was 10,000,000,000% snapes fault he chose to try and get past the tree, snape chose to listen to Sirius, snape chose to go down the tunnel where suspected a werewolf was waiting
Under the supervision of the most physically powerful person at hogwarts
While the hallwa were heavily patrolled after the castle had been searched
A scene meant to be comical and was meant to be the bully getting a taste of his own medicine
Again snape attempted to poison a students pet and when he lost his temper at harry in OotP was throwing glass jars and curses at him
No he made samus write lines after samus was being careless and "waving his wand like a baboon waves a stick
Three points on this 1st. Lupin himself admits he was wrong to keep secrets 2nd. Again lupin admits he was wrong 3rd harry was an adult in the wizaring world and had just as much opportunity to descalate as lupin
> If your talking about the womping willow that was 10,000,000,000% snapes fault he chose to try and get past the tree, snape chose to listen to Sirius, snape chose to go down the tunnel where suspected a werewolf was waiting
Wow, nice victim-blaming there. No, Sirius gave Snape the information with malicious intent. By your logic, the girl in the boyfriend suicide case did nothing wrong. I mean, sure, the girl repeatedly told her boyfriend to commit suicide until the point that he actually did it, but he made the choice to take his own life, and the girl has no blame whatsoever, and should never have gone to jail, right?/s
> Under the supervision of the most physically powerful person at hogwarts
So you would be okay with a teacher sending a little kids to spend the night in the forest, surrounded by rabid wolves, bears, poisonous snakes, and other predators, as long as one adult is with them. An adult who left them alone, btw.
> While the hallwa were heavily patrolled after the castle had been searched
Cool, she still locked him outside while an mass-murderer was on the loose. If a teacher, as punishment, locked a student outside in the hallway while a school-shooter was on the loose, would you defend it on the grounds that "well, the hallways were being patrolled, so that makes it ok".
> A scene meant to be comical and was meant to be the bully getting a taste of his own medicine
Oh, so child-mutilation is ok as long as the child deserves it, is what your saying? Then if a story wrote a scene of sexual-assault, and it was treated as "comical", you would defend it? Because that's kinda what you're implying it. You're saying your issue isn't with the actions itself, but with who does the action and how the story treats it. Meaning you don't take an issue with any of Snape's actions, you just don't like Snape, and then try to justify that dislike after the fact by pointing to something he did. Tell me, if Snape "poisoning" Trevor and spiking a students drink was treated as comical, would you defend it?
> Again snape attempted to poison a students pet
It was supposed to be comical. The only reason it isn't treated as comical is because we read it from Harry's POV, and he has a huge bias against Snape for 99% of the story. Other than that, Neville would have deserved it and the scene would be comical.
> and when he lost his temper at harry in OotP was throwing glass jars and curses at him
After Harry disobeyed Snape's order and goes into his office and looks into his memories without permission. Would be like a teacher telling a student to wait outside the teacher's house, and instead the student breaks into the teacher's home, rummages around his house, and when the teacher comes back and finds the student, throws the student out, and says that the teacher is in the wrong, and not the student for breaking into the teacher's home and invading their privacy.
> No he made samus write lines after samus was being careless and "waving his wand like a baboon waves a stick
If if a White teacher made a Black teacher write on the board about being careless and "playing a swinging around like a monkey jumping from tree-branch to tree-branch", you would still defend it?
> Three points on this 1st. Lupin himself admits he was wrong to keep secrets 2nd. Again lupin admits he was wrong 3rd harry was an adult in the wizaring world and had just as much opportunity to descalate as lupin
Cool. Admitting that he was wrong doesn't change the fact that Lupin still did it and endangered everyone, which is worse than Snape's actions. It is not automatically erased because Lupin was caught and said "My bad".
Still did it, again.
Again, victim-blaming. If someone is calling you out on your shit is not escalating, it's holding you accountable. And even if it was, which it isn't Lupin still was the first one to engage in a physical attack. Tell me, if Snape was in Lupin's position, and Harry was calling him out on something, and Snape replied by physically attacking Harry, would you be saying "well, Harry is an adult and he escalated the situation with Snape."?
Sirius chose to tell Snape knowing full well what would happen if he did go down.He chose not to care for his friend's secret .
How's brute strenfth going to help at all?
Then there was no reason why Neville cant have the password ?
Dudely had done literally noting there tho?I am sure by that definition we can pass off hernione's teeth off as a funny thing too. After all it too way less hassle for her to get it sorted than dudely
Lupin admitting he was wrong isn't gonna do much now is it? Also he never appologised for never mentioning the map to Dumbledore.The only reason the trio were alive was becuse Sirius turnedout to be a good guy.Also Harry was still only barely 17 and didn't attack Lupin. He had zero reasons to attack Harry when all of it was his fault to begin with .
To what do I owe this very late pleasure?
I will explain it all to you if you will step up to my office.
Oh, surely not. So crude.
Let me remind you that this was a School where it was deemed fit to send 11 yrs old to a first where they can die . With a person who can't do magic. Also a one where boys were apparently called baboons
But we never talk about that.
And I think most Snape fans on reddit never claim that he was a saint. Just that he was a complex character who underwent a lot of change wand ultimately did way more good.
Because Snape lovers seem to worship him, and say that everything he does is all okay just because he was bullied as a kid too. The true answer is that he's a nuanced character, not a hero or a villain.
Um Alan rickmans performance is not the reason why most people including myself enjoy Snape. Most are really horny, or like emo men, or really intimidating characters, or like “evil” but secretly good characters or like older male characters. Alan just make Snape even better.
Also for most fans, book Snape ≠ movie Snape. But I like all versions of Snape 🙃
He didn’t bully children. He just made snide remarks. And many other professors made snide remarks.
He joined good side before Lily died. Because he asked Dumbledore to protect Lily and her family. Before she died. For a brilliant man, that was stupid. And in return, Dumbledore wanted him to be a triple agent (or is it double?) that was BEFORE she died. I think he even had doubts in the book if I wasn’t mistaken. And in death eater group he wasnt severely bullied like he was by the marauders.
I think as a half blood, he would took offence to the blood racism slurs. But as he grew up bullied and abused by his father, he was a pushover and didn’t do anything. Just like Harry when he was in the forbidden forest and he didn’t Protect himself against quirrel and he froze.
Also it’s said he regretted calling Lily the m slur as well and implied he tried to apologise and hated himself for it
Stop making assumptions. Accept people like characters you don’t like. Not everyone will like marauders (because most of us can see past the rich white boy facade and just see they are irredeemable asshole who bullied a poor kid for hanging around with a girl.)
Also when marauders hung Snape in the air and threatened to remove his trousers, Lily SMIRKED. And didn’t even try to defend him! Shes just as bad as they are. “Snape did denounce racism” LILY DIDNT ALWAYS DEFEND HIM. AND THATS WHAT FRIENDS ARE MEANT TO DO.
Not everyone will like the same characters you do. Accept it. You can’t change someone’s mind about ybeir favourite character. A lot of people are stubborn and really down bad. Like me. Not every Snape fan like him for the same reasons.
Also once a kid gets severely bullied as he got, they are never the same. And some still hold onto it, like me. Some are still traumatised. Like Snape. He may seem tough but thats just a facade so he doesn’t get badly tormented like he was by the marauders
Pulling someone’s pants down is considered sexual harassment. Even in the 70s.
(And I also hate how marauders fans like to fancast other actors as their favourite marauder because “the actor who played them was too ugly”. Like accept it. If your character is canonically ugly, thats your problem that they don’t fit your type. Obviously no offence to the actors.)
Time is making fools of us again.
Then what would you call attempting to poison a students pet
Exactly what we call sending 11 yr Olds to the forest where 2 almost died?
“I see no difference” to a 13-year old girl who was just cursed to have her teeth grow uncontrollably. He was a bully to children because a girl who’s entire birth was an affront to his master didn’t love him. Complex character? No. Little boy who only stopped doing evil for selfish reasons.
A bunch of teachers and adults in Hogwarts are far worse in their treatments of little children. Also, a bunch of characters and heroes in fiction only stopped being evil for selfish reasons. I am sure you hate all of them as much as Snape, if not more, right.
Right! Hes my 3rd favorite character but ill be the first to admit hes an asshole AT BEST
Exactly for both these examples! If Snape has no haters I am dead, this man was beyond vile, held awful views and bullied his students. He only became a spy when Lily's life was threatened, he did not care about James dying (not expecting him to be devastated over this loss, but years had passed since school and this was ultimately the man Lily had chosen) or Harry almost dying, a baby and Lily's son
Wrong. He did bully children...
Since when is it not okay to say mudblood? We're talking about a made up slur in a made up universe with no connection to the real world...
Woah calm down Jamal.
Anyway, none of what you just said was true. He DID bully students. He threatened to poison Neville toad, said "I see no difference" when hermiones teeth were lengthened (causing her to cry) and he also called her an "insufferable know it all" for answering a question. Also, he was so bad that he was Nevilles boggart. That says enough. And, he said for LILY to be kept safe. He didnt give a shit about Harry or James. When he went to voldemort, he said to keep her alive, he was fully willing to let an infant Harry and James die. Not only that, him being bullied is fucked up. No doubt. But James matured, and joined the order of the phoenix, meanwhile snape joined a genocidal death cult because he was bullied. James>Snape ANY day of the week. Now, snape redeems himself in the end, I guess you can say that. But it doesnt excuse the fact he was an AWFUL professor. Bullying students, picking favorites, etc.
Now, for why people like him? Its personal reasons, cant debunk that. No denying that a lot of people are horny for older male characters, and anti heros are super interesting. Hes a good character, well written and very intriguing. Is he a good person? Yes and no. But his treatment of students is unacceptable. Most people have had teachers like that. It can permanently fuck up your schooling by making you DESPISE certain subjects. I had excellent history teachers in middle school, so now I LOVE history. Others aren't so lucky. My main gripes with him is how he was, objectively, a terrible teacher and thst was his main role for almost 20 years. He fucking sucks.
Also, yes, I agree that the marauders Fandom kinda sucks (especially wolfstar and jegulus fans) and it is toxic AF. Seriously, the marauders are cool, but wtf is up with drastically changing the characters out of nowhere? In the fanart I've seen, James looks significantly darker, Sirius looks like a masc lesbian, and in ATYD Remus is completely a different person. Also, the Fandom ignores the fact that Sirius is actually notably tall and doesnt have tattoos in the books. I really hate when Fandoms make headcanons and delude themselves so much to the point that they bully you and make you out to be the dumbass for not believing it.
> Anyway, none of what you just said was true. He DID bully students. He threatened to poison Neville toad, said "I see no difference" when hermiones teeth were lengthened (causing her to cry) and he also called her an "insufferable know it all" for answering a question. Also, he was so bad that he was Nevilles boggart. That says enough.
Most of the Hogwarts teachers bullied abused, or endangered their students. Many of them in ways far worse than Snape ever did.
> And, he said for LILY to be kept safe. He didnt give a shit about Harry or James. When he went to voldemort, he said to keep her alive, he was fully willing to let an infant Harry and James die.
The Harry part was fucked up, I agree, but Snape has no reason to care about James.
> But James matured, and joined the order of the phoenix, meanwhile snape joined a genocidal death cult because he was bullied.
Wow, the abuser was able to move on from their actions was the victim was left with the trauma. Let's give them a prize. Not to mention, the only people who say James "matured" are James best friends/co-bullies or people who are biased in James favor.
> But it doesnt excuse the fact he was an AWFUL professor. Bullying students, picking favorites, etc.
Then by your own logic, most of the Hogwarts professors are far more indefensible and awful than Snape ever was, and you should hate them far more than Snape.
> But his treatment of students is unacceptable.
The treatment of several students at the hands of the adults in Hogwarts is unacceptable.
> Most people have had teachers like that. It can permanently fuck up your schooling by making you DESPISE certain subjects. I had excellent history teachers in middle school, so now I LOVE history. Others aren't so lucky. My main gripes with him is how he was, objectively, a terrible teacher and thst was his main role for almost 20 years. He fucking sucks.
Several people have also had experiences similar to the ones other teachers at Hogwarts have had, actions far worse than Snape's.
> Also, yes, I agree that the marauders Fandom kinda sucks (especially wolfstar and jegulus fans) and it is toxic AF. Seriously, the marauders are cool, but wtf is up with drastically changing the characters out of nowhere? In the fanart I've seen, James looks significantly darker, Sirius looks like a masc lesbian, and in ATYD Remus is completely a different person. Also, the Fandom ignores the fact that Sirius is actually notably tall and doesnt have tattoos in the books. I really hate when Fandoms make headcanons and delude themselves so much to the point that they bully you and make you out to be the dumbass for not believing it.
Literally every single reason you just listed for hating the fandom has to do with the Marauders physical looks, and ot to do with their behavior or personality. Heck, you even state that you think they are cool, in spite of the fact that they tried to kill Snape for fun, (potentially) sexually-assaulted him, sexually-harassed Lily, bullies and attacked a bunch of students. That's all forgivable and makes them cool. Oh, but the teacher who is mean to his students is a monster, right?/s
real plus the movies kinda make him just a frustrated harsh teacher, not a man-child bully kinda neo-nazi XD
Fuck Snape. I hate him so much.
Meh mudbloods are gross tbf