The private firm gets availability payments over 20-30 years, maybe a maintenance concession. Public gets a new building, financed at a lower rate over a longer term with some performance guarantees without outlaying the capital costs at the outset.
Exactly this. We have a homeless and housing catastrophe. People just want a basic roof over their heads in one of the richest countries on the planet and the best we can do is burn through tax payer funds for things like this.
It would be one thing if those efficiencies, which really are few and far between in reality, were given back to the public, but as we all know they are just to increase profit margins
This is ridiculous. As Cllr. Kroetsch calls out in a comment, this could have been avoided by having the forensics building being built across the street from Central station being more than like a 2 storey facility and just built a large building housing everything if this was the case.
I really have to wonder, though. This place was built in what, the 70s? And it's decaying? Why have they not been putting their surpluses into repairs and maintenance? This graft has to stop. But instead we have 2 council members (Pauls, Spadafora) who do not show up consistently, blindly approve things, and then also complain that taxes are too high
Also, just fix the existing building... It's huge. If you compare it to the size of the Toronto Police Headquarters, considering we're a city ⅓ the size, I think it's fine as-is. I constantly get angry that nothing in Hamilton is maintained. The city and it's institutions treat it's public infrastructure and buildings like landlords, not putting a cent into anything until the roof caves in and the entire thing needs to be replaced. So for decades we get to use shitty old stuff and then for 5 years after it's rebuilt at exorbitant cost, we get a nice facility.
Like every recreation centre, public pool, and school almost has been replaced with a new one. Toronto has done similar but also has examples of dozens of hundred year old pieces of public infrastructure, where as Hamilton has almost none left, opting for the tear-down and replace model which is far more expensive and diminishes civic pride. We have three old schools remaining basically, Westdale secondary, Central Elementary, and Earl Kitchener, and basically one old pool, Jimmy Thompson.
Another example is the Victoria Park pool, which for whatever reason is being fully ripped out instead of maintained. In Toronto they have older pools in the suburbs of Etobicoke. Just ridiculous waste of money.
That was a purpose-built forensics building as the area on the 1st floor no longer met their needs. However since they did not plan, that building could've been 8-10 floors, with a full service garage and jail in the basement, that would have met their needs. Instead we'll pay even more for another facility, which will go uncared for and last half as long as it should before they need ANOTHER new space.
Hopefully they have the land already (didn't I see something recently about them purchasing additional land next to HQ on King William?) - otherwise I am sure Police Services Board members Mssrs St. Jean and Robertson will be instrumental in helping them out in that regard!
It looks like in the docs, they started the process in 2021, but it's probably been discussed in private multiple times. Now that it's time to vote it's easy to sneak it in just before Christmas, then jam it through in 2026 and get ground broken in 2027. That way the outrage is fleeting (until the 2060s when they want something even bigger, even newer and even less responsibility on their part than the current facilities)
It's fascinating what they feel they are entitled to.
"hey, build us a new HQ/Division 1 combined building, or build us 2 sites. Your choice. We just need 4-8 acres of space for us."
"We need parking for almost 750 vehicles on site."
"We should have a shooting range on site."
"We should have a gym on site."
"We should have a forensics lab, even though a forensics building was literally just built."
"It shouldn't be a heritage building, so we are not hindered by things like history and culture and can do what we want."
"We would not own the building, but enter into a 40 year lease. We do not pay property taxes either."
"We're just a tenant, so we won't have to pay anything. You build it for us, and it's paid for via tax increases."
"We want this to move fast to force your hand and ensure we keep the public guessing. Phase 1 due by END OF JANUARY 2026. Oh, and everything should be good to go by the end of 2026, ready for action to be taken in 2027."
How does a P3 benefit ths project in any way?
Helps give well connected developers lots of public money.
The private firm gets availability payments over 20-30 years, maybe a maintenance concession. Public gets a new building, financed at a lower rate over a longer term with some performance guarantees without outlaying the capital costs at the outset.
Common for most new major buildings. The St. Joe's West 5th Campus, Ron Joyce Center at the General and the new West Lincoln Hospital are all P3.
I always wondered why parking at the Ron Joyce felt like taking out a second mortgage, now I have my answer!
Parking Lot is still all HHS.
https://www.infrastructureontario.ca/en/what-we-do/projectssearch/hamilton-health-sciences---ron-joyce-childrens-health-centre/
And yet they have a $177M budget shortfall this year - I guess the parking rates could be worse!
What does the private investment bring to the table? How does it benefit the public?
And why not use P3 to help with our homeless problem instead of the over funded police?
Exactly this. We have a homeless and housing catastrophe. People just want a basic roof over their heads in one of the richest countries on the planet and the best we can do is burn through tax payer funds for things like this.
Beyond fucked up and outright shameful.
There is no money to be made from homeless people, but the police budget increases year over year.
It doesn't.
Fuck P3s. Just another way to siphon public money into private hands
But… but my efficiencies!
It would be one thing if those efficiencies, which really are few and far between in reality, were given back to the public, but as we all know they are just to increase profit margins
This is ridiculous. As Cllr. Kroetsch calls out in a comment, this could have been avoided by having the forensics building being built across the street from Central station being more than like a 2 storey facility and just built a large building housing everything if this was the case.
I really have to wonder, though. This place was built in what, the 70s? And it's decaying? Why have they not been putting their surpluses into repairs and maintenance? This graft has to stop. But instead we have 2 council members (Pauls, Spadafora) who do not show up consistently, blindly approve things, and then also complain that taxes are too high
The entire process can be avoided. They don't need to go p3. What is this bullshit.
Esther Pauls is a walking conflict of interest when it comes to the police.
Also, just fix the existing building... It's huge. If you compare it to the size of the Toronto Police Headquarters, considering we're a city ⅓ the size, I think it's fine as-is. I constantly get angry that nothing in Hamilton is maintained. The city and it's institutions treat it's public infrastructure and buildings like landlords, not putting a cent into anything until the roof caves in and the entire thing needs to be replaced. So for decades we get to use shitty old stuff and then for 5 years after it's rebuilt at exorbitant cost, we get a nice facility.
Like every recreation centre, public pool, and school almost has been replaced with a new one. Toronto has done similar but also has examples of dozens of hundred year old pieces of public infrastructure, where as Hamilton has almost none left, opting for the tear-down and replace model which is far more expensive and diminishes civic pride. We have three old schools remaining basically, Westdale secondary, Central Elementary, and Earl Kitchener, and basically one old pool, Jimmy Thompson.
Another example is the Victoria Park pool, which for whatever reason is being fully ripped out instead of maintained. In Toronto they have older pools in the suburbs of Etobicoke. Just ridiculous waste of money.
Ridiculous. So much money towards this department. People are started to freeze on the streets and it’s still December.
Fuck these guys and their money-sink on my tax bill to kingdom come.
They literally just built a brand new headquarters at Mary and Rebecca less than 2 years ago.
That was a purpose-built forensics building as the area on the 1st floor no longer met their needs. However since they did not plan, that building could've been 8-10 floors, with a full service garage and jail in the basement, that would have met their needs. Instead we'll pay even more for another facility, which will go uncared for and last half as long as it should before they need ANOTHER new space.
That's the forensic investigation unit.
Hopefully they have the land already (didn't I see something recently about them purchasing additional land next to HQ on King William?) - otherwise I am sure Police Services Board members Mssrs St. Jean and Robertson will be instrumental in helping them out in that regard!
How has City council already approved of this yet this is the first time the public is hearing about it?
It looks like in the docs, they started the process in 2021, but it's probably been discussed in private multiple times. Now that it's time to vote it's easy to sneak it in just before Christmas, then jam it through in 2026 and get ground broken in 2027. That way the outrage is fleeting (until the 2060s when they want something even bigger, even newer and even less responsibility on their part than the current facilities)
Can the mayor veto?
Documents for the project were posted late yesterday afternoon
https://investinhamilton.ca/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Hamilton-Police-Services-New-HQ-2.pdf[https://investinhamilton.ca/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Hamilton-Police-Services-New-HQ-2.pdf](https://investinhamilton.ca/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Hamilton-Police-Services-New-HQ-2.pdf)
https://investinhamilton.ca/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Hamilton-Police-Services-Proposal-Call-12-18-25.pdf[https://investinhamilton.ca/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Hamilton-Police-Services-Proposal-Call-12-18-25.pdf](https://investinhamilton.ca/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Hamilton-Police-Services-Proposal-Call-12-18-25.pdf)
It's fascinating what they feel they are entitled to.
"hey, build us a new HQ/Division 1 combined building, or build us 2 sites. Your choice. We just need 4-8 acres of space for us."
"We need parking for almost 750 vehicles on site."
"We should have a shooting range on site."
"We should have a gym on site."
"We should have a forensics lab, even though a forensics building was literally just built."
"It shouldn't be a heritage building, so we are not hindered by things like history and culture and can do what we want."
"We would not own the building, but enter into a 40 year lease. We do not pay property taxes either."
"We're just a tenant, so we won't have to pay anything. You build it for us, and it's paid for via tax increases."
"We want this to move fast to force your hand and ensure we keep the public guessing. Phase 1 due by END OF JANUARY 2026. Oh, and everything should be good to go by the end of 2026, ready for action to be taken in 2027."
My God you can't make this shit up. Make it stop
Its probably because they found out Toronto police have a bar in their HQ, and now they want one too.
Serve and protect, emphasis on the serve.
You know what that means…request for 10% budget increases for the next 10 years. Such a racket.
We seriously need a societal reset when it comes to how much unchecked power, influence and resources that police in North America get.
Can't the mayor veto this? Such a massive massive waste of money. Totally not needed. That shit is for huge projects and always wastes money.
How about no? They need major budget cuts like everyone else.
That surface parking lot that the current police headquarters has is such a waste of space in the downtown core.
FTP