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I miss doing resi boiler installs every once in a while. We used to paint the plywood black and seal it with some waterproofer so the plywood would never rot. The copper on black would make me go from 6 to midnight every time.
Haha! I have some Lochinvars and Burnhams in the photos album too 🙂 I will say however, these newer naviens arent so bad but I much prefer the NHB-H with an indirect over the combi units
Haha a lot of people feel that way. The newer NHB-H heat only models are pretty nice tho I would pair one with an indirect ideally. But lochinvar or viessman is bis
Getting to the pumps and such was simple. It was a combi unit. 110 erro code due to failing pump. Ordered the new one had it out and back in. And as opposed to the bleeder vent on lochinvar th uticas bleeder is more of a traditional float type air vent. Never spits out water and once the major air is purged from the the system it’s a snap getting the remaining out with a good air separator and air vent as well as the built in bleeder.
Hat a Utica tankless job the other day. Aside from wanting to discuss some issues with the moron that made one of the zones close to impossible to change when it goes bad (luckily not the case this time) it was a pretty clean install and getting it back up and going was fairly smooth and painless
True that it is less of a big deal on baseboard. However some would say that components like the pumps etc could still cause issues and having a filter is a good idea. Would love to head more thoughts on this though
Very clean work. It still kind of blows my mind how different heavy commercial and residential loops are piped. Several things that i would do differently, simply because the shit is bigger. Good work.
I would have 1 pump for the secondary loop(s) with modulating valves for each zone, auto bleeder and make-up would be tapped inline with the expansion tank with a large air seperator, and of course the pipes to the boiler would be 2"+. There's 100 ways to skin a cat. Keep on keeping on!
Gotcha. Shouldn't that condensate drain be in PVC? All my experience is in commercial and you would never see copper condensate drain lines as the low PH of the condensate eats thru copper pipe.
I think it is. If you zoom in, the copper pipe is connected to the relief valve for the domestic and there's a thin white sliver that looks like pvc behind it.
We are required by state code to have a thermostatic mixing valve outside the unit. Technically what’s inside the unit is a bit different. But either way, code is code! 😊
You've done a beautiful, clean job. If I can offer some critiques? Zoning with pumps is not wrong, and actually can sometimes be the only way that makes sense. However, in most residential applications, it is more cost-effective and in some ways better for the system to zone with valves and use a single variable speed delta-P circulator. Also, the feed valve is entirely too close to the wall to give clearance to be spun off when it needs to be changed. Adding a union downstream, or simply giving more clearance from the wall will help the service guy immensely in the future. I really love the common purge, instead of individual purges by zone. Also, the relief line off the relief valve... is certainly there... In the future, a union on that relief tube would be awesome. But, overall, you did a great job. Please use the outside sensor and set up outdoor reset, so the boiler has at least a chance of condensing.
Always definitely use the outdoor sensor! And thx for the feedback, realized I was all out of compression fittings for that relief and unfortunately, supplyhouse closed on the weekend :( ill make a note to bring a slip coupling when it comes time to switch it 😭
If not, you did a really good job limiting the wonk factor of propress. Wish I could do entirely new manifolds and all that. The NG service provider in my area isn't really expanding. So oil stays oil, ng stays ng, lp stays lp. Get into a lot of swap and chops where I have to get creative to get fix the previous guys mistakes.
That mistake is always closely spaced tees.
everyone repeat after me 4x pipe diameter separation 8x pipe diameter straight pipe on either side
Do you need a low loss or closely spaced tees on a condensing boiler? yes
No not a pre made, it was all done on site! Tyvm, the trick is to mark and put your hangers up first they will hold everything together so the press doesnt make everything go all wonky
Also chop and swaps are a bummer :( I also prefer to replace everything ceiling down even on floor mounts. The good majority of old timers piped every boiler incorrectly/insufficient lol
I’ve been thinking about giving the strut a try, it seems much easier to prep and level lol. I just like the 3 dimensional look of different lengths with the split rings you get from using threaded rod feels easier to stack stuff together
Looks nice dude, I still can’t get past the pro press though. I’m just old school though. I’m sure if I did a larger job with them I’d fall under their spell. 😂
Haha the sound and the pop becomes addicting. I would like to sweat one tho, that would look very nice but i think i would prefab at the shop in that scenario
It will, more room then you think and theres play up there bc of the adapter below. just pop the adjusting screw off. But yes i agree it could be farther off the wall. Next time 😘
Thank you!! Some people have conflicting views on whether all copper systems require a magnet. If it was my call tho I promise there would be one installed on every boiler regardless :)
Hello!
Please read the rules and re-post over at r/hvacadvice - our sister sub specifically for questions, comments and posts from outside the trade. r/hvac top-level posts are limited to past, present or future members of the trade.
Thanks!
I miss doing resi boiler installs every once in a while. We used to paint the plywood black and seal it with some waterproofer so the plywood would never rot. The copper on black would make me go from 6 to midnight every time.
Would have loved to paint the plywood, kind of a last minute no heat sit, and had none on hand. But yeah resi boilers are fun 🤩
And it had to be ruined by using a Navien
Could've been a Triangle Tube.
Oh wait...
Haha! Just had to swap one of those, still under warranty too but 💀
No parts available?
Nope
Haha! I have some Lochinvars and Burnhams in the photos album too 🙂 I will say however, these newer naviens arent so bad but I much prefer the NHB-H with an indirect over the combi units
Yeah I’m all over these new Rinnai’s
I havent touched one. Theyre nice?
I much prefer them to naviens. I just see so many naviens with condensate collector issues
Anything is better than a Navien
Haha a lot of people feel that way. The newer NHB-H heat only models are pretty nice tho I would pair one with an indirect ideally. But lochinvar or viessman is bis
https://preview.redd.it/m7qsan4jarcg1.jpeg?width=350&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d956c5d8709dd64be301604fad0fa3c41c0c9e0b
One of these bad boys. Only gripe is better have some metric wrenches and Alan’s for the pms and such
Ooo, I’ve done some cast iron uticas but I’ve never seen a condensing
Getting to the pumps and such was simple. It was a combi unit. 110 erro code due to failing pump. Ordered the new one had it out and back in. And as opposed to the bleeder vent on lochinvar th uticas bleeder is more of a traditional float type air vent. Never spits out water and once the major air is purged from the the system it’s a snap getting the remaining out with a good air separator and air vent as well as the built in bleeder.
Hat a Utica tankless job the other day. Aside from wanting to discuss some issues with the moron that made one of the zones close to impossible to change when it goes bad (luckily not the case this time) it was a pretty clean install and getting it back up and going was fairly smooth and painless
Looks very nice, good job.
Tyvm !
Im a 20 yr tech that just retired and that build is spot on. Doing work like that you will never be unemployed.
Thanks again! And ty for ur service 🫡 I appreciate high quality piping, its the only thing that still entertains me after 11 years 😂
Clean install
Tyvm!
Sexy
Tysm 😎
Very nice
Tyvm!
I like that condensate pump kit!
Do you have a PN?
Friend in CO puts SS diamond plates behind all of their boiler installs like this
That looks sick. I wonder how much those cost
I think his typical client can afford it from what he tells me. Typically $1M+ homes. Does a lot of heated walkways & driveways too.
EDIT: BTW, very nice & clean install
Tyvm Also those jobs are cool, would like to do more high end stuff like that
Damn bud that looks sick! Good work man!
Great job. It looks great 👍
Thank you!
No need for a magnet if it is baseboard not radiators.
True that it is less of a big deal on baseboard. However some would say that components like the pumps etc could still cause issues and having a filter is a good idea. Would love to head more thoughts on this though
My man 🤘
How much time did you put into this?
A day and a half, roughly 12 hours day one and 4 to wrap up next morning. Two helpers day 1 and 1 apprentice day 2
I wish I could do jobs like this every day - very clean install man.
Me too, works more fun when u can be passionate ab the project. Thank you!
How many days and how many guys?
Me and 2 helpers one day then me and 1 helper to wrap up the next morning for a few hours
Man my boss needs a press, we still sweat everything, woulda been 3+ days for us
Ya man that’s way to much prep work. Maybe if we prefab at the shop but even then.. press saves so much labor
Very clean work. It still kind of blows my mind how different heavy commercial and residential loops are piped. Several things that i would do differently, simply because the shit is bigger. Good work.
I have super limited commercial hydronic experience. Very interesting stuff
I would have 1 pump for the secondary loop(s) with modulating valves for each zone, auto bleeder and make-up would be tapped inline with the expansion tank with a large air seperator, and of course the pipes to the boiler would be 2"+. There's 100 ways to skin a cat. Keep on keeping on!
I don't know much about Navien boilers, does this have a condensation neutralization kit internal to the unit?
The condensate pump has neutralizing pellets inside the half where the furnace is discharged
Gotcha. Shouldn't that condensate drain be in PVC? All my experience is in commercial and you would never see copper condensate drain lines as the low PH of the condensate eats thru copper pipe.
I think it is. If you zoom in, the copper pipe is connected to the relief valve for the domestic and there's a thin white sliver that looks like pvc behind it.
Ya theres a 3/4 pvc with a union behind there
Yeah boooooyyyyy (ler).
Clean work sir
Ty sir
It looks really nice. As a former resi boiler installer my criticism is that you have a fair amount of excess piping. Boiler loop could be minimized.
Got me chubbin a bit, well done!
Gorgeus!
Fuck boilers. Good job tho.
Noice!! Job well done, bud. High Foive!
Is that a tempering valve on the dhw? Install looks great, but Curious what that valve is for. These naviens have their own mixing valve built in.
We are required by state code to have a thermostatic mixing valve outside the unit. Technically what’s inside the unit is a bit different. But either way, code is code! 😊
Also tyvm
You've done a beautiful, clean job. If I can offer some critiques? Zoning with pumps is not wrong, and actually can sometimes be the only way that makes sense. However, in most residential applications, it is more cost-effective and in some ways better for the system to zone with valves and use a single variable speed delta-P circulator. Also, the feed valve is entirely too close to the wall to give clearance to be spun off when it needs to be changed. Adding a union downstream, or simply giving more clearance from the wall will help the service guy immensely in the future. I really love the common purge, instead of individual purges by zone. Also, the relief line off the relief valve... is certainly there... In the future, a union on that relief tube would be awesome. But, overall, you did a great job. Please use the outside sensor and set up outdoor reset, so the boiler has at least a chance of condensing.
Always definitely use the outdoor sensor! And thx for the feedback, realized I was all out of compression fittings for that relief and unfortunately, supplyhouse closed on the weekend :( ill make a note to bring a slip coupling when it comes time to switch it 😭
150 bucks in copper pipe, 350 in fittings 😂 Which press tool do you run?
Haha milwaukee m12
Is that a pre-made board?
If not, you did a really good job limiting the wonk factor of propress. Wish I could do entirely new manifolds and all that. The NG service provider in my area isn't really expanding. So oil stays oil, ng stays ng, lp stays lp. Get into a lot of swap and chops where I have to get creative to get fix the previous guys mistakes.
That mistake is always closely spaced tees.
everyone repeat after me 4x pipe diameter separation 8x pipe diameter straight pipe on either side
Do you need a low loss or closely spaced tees on a condensing boiler? yes
No not a pre made, it was all done on site! Tyvm, the trick is to mark and put your hangers up first they will hold everything together so the press doesnt make everything go all wonky
Also chop and swaps are a bummer :( I also prefer to replace everything ceiling down even on floor mounts. The good majority of old timers piped every boiler incorrectly/insufficient lol
Nice
Art. Absolutely beautiful, dude.
Thank you so much 😁
Nice work very clean 👌🏼
Tysm!
Ive grown to love using strut and cushion clamps when I can instead of allthread. Clean install!!
I’ve been thinking about giving the strut a try, it seems much easier to prep and level lol. I just like the 3 dimensional look of different lengths with the split rings you get from using threaded rod feels easier to stack stuff together
Look great. First rate install.
Ty!!
Very beautiful, well done!
Looks nice dude, I still can’t get past the pro press though. I’m just old school though. I’m sure if I did a larger job with them I’d fall under their spell. 😂
Haha the sound and the pop becomes addicting. I would like to sweat one tho, that would look very nice but i think i would prefab at the shop in that scenario
Feel sorry for the guy who has to replace that pressure reducing valve!!!! Installers never think ahead…. Way too close to the wall.
There a union on one side and you can shut the valve on the tank mount and spin it out. It would be an easy swap no draining lol
Only an easy swap if that prv spins off that male adapter.!
It will, more room then you think and theres play up there bc of the adapter below. just pop the adjusting screw off. But yes i agree it could be farther off the wall. Next time 😘
Yup
I'm still learning, but why no zone drains?
You can do a singular purge drain on the main return with just valves on the loops like this. Its better because you dont have to move the hose around
Pretty! Nice press work.
Where’s the magnetic strainer?
Thank you!! Some people have conflicting views on whether all copper systems require a magnet. If it was my call tho I promise there would be one installed on every boiler regardless :)
I've only ever installed them in retrofits, where cast iron was present. New systems, with copper and PEX seems pointless
Cast iron applications are essential. I would say however better safe than sorry! So if you have the green light, install them on everything 🙂
If it’s pex and underfloor, for sure.
If it’s still using steel radiators, then I would.
I’ve got pex and steel radiators and towel rails in my new house. My water is black and gross - I don’t have a strainer on mine (yet).