Current Situation:

Director at F100 ($200B market cap)

12 years experience

Lead 3 teams with 10 employees

Compensation: $220K base, $60K bonus, $20K stock = total $300K

WLB: 40 hrs/week, 3 days in office

Company has had consistently strong performance, minimal turnover, and bonuses historically pay out at 125-150% of target (125% in #s above).

VP promotion is probably 3-5 years away, and not guaranteed as I’m competing with 5 peers who are equally qualified, and typically 1 spot opens up every 2-3 years. C-suite has told me they think I have potential, but are transparent that I’m in the middle of the pack, not next in line.

Potential Opportunity:

VP at $1B market cap company

Lead 1 team with 5 employees, frequent interaction with CEO and Board (good for career, bad for WLB and stress)

Compensation: $300K base, $50K bonus, $100K RSUs = total $450K

WLB: 50 hrs/week, 5 days in office

Company has been in business 100+ years but performance last 10 years has been mixed and stock has flat-lined. Leadership is a mix of veteran talent and some external hires within last few years. Some yellow flags as prior hire in this role only lasted 6 months (explanation is reasonable but likely not the full story).

Personal life considerations:

Current situation:

Live in VHCOL with 2 kids, age 3 and 1. Spouse earns $200K, total HHI $500K. We’ve outgrown our city apartment and are ready for more space. A 4bd 3ba home in a town near the city with good school districts is $1.7M - $2.2M, so we are looking at towns farther away that would have a 45 min commute but $1.1M - $1.3M home. No family nearby and our close friends have family support, so it’s been hard for us to build a village.

Potential situation:

MCOL, equivalent home with 20 min commute, great schools, and walkable downtown would be $800K - $1M. Property taxes are 20-30% lower as well on a % basis. We have friends who live in this city, in-laws live 2 hours away in a fun resort town. Spouse would likely have to take a 30% pay cut for equivalent job, and might require a year to find.

I’m truly torn - my gut says I should stay put and not take the risk, but curious what the HENRY community thinks? I’m sensitive to feeling like I’m chasing the money and sacrifice time with my kids while they’re young, but know these types of career opportunities don’t come around often.

  • Getting out of a VHCOL to make more money and be closer to family sounds good.

    parent

    OP can you just share the names of the cities or at least the state? Knowing this info would make it much easier to provide advice that’s more targeted.

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  • How much do you value 10 hours of time and 2 WFH days? This should be weighed. Always good to put yourself in a new environment and challenge yourself, assuming you’re in a good place to do so.

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  • Would there be an opportunity to negotiate with your current company? Sounds like money is the only driver here in making the switch and if you can get a $50kish all in increase, could be worth staying.

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  • IMO "you can have it all" is one big fat lie that many millennials were told at some point, right along "you need to go to college and that would secure a solid job and future"

    As you level up, you are most likely going to ask yourself directly "do I want to spend more time with my family and have more relaxed life, or do I want to advance in my career faster"?

    There are many people who choose the former, many who choose the latter. Answering this kind of posts is hard without knowing what kind of person are you?

    parent

    Separately, I often get confused by titles as they mean so different things in many industries, so it may be easier to compare scopes instead.

    E.g. in a corporation like Google leading 3 teams of 10 people isn't director position; you might be a manager or a senior manager, reporting to a director, reporting to a senior director, reporting to a VP who you'd rarely speak to; and I don't think you'd ever speak to C-level who most definitely wouldn't know you exist.

    > VP at $1B market cap company, Lead 1 team with 5 employees, frequent interaction with CEO and Board (good for career, bad for WLB and stress)

    I don't really see how leading a team of 5 employees is that good for a career? Scope-wise it.. a manager position?

    parent root

    Titles don't really mean anything in my opinion. They're just something for your parents to brag about to others when they talk about their kids. It's the money that matters.

    parent root

    Im not sure the size of your team translates directly to scope/impact . I work on a somewhat niche team at a ~10K employee F500 tech company. My VP has 3 directs and only like 10 total employees but she is absolutely operating at what I would consider VP level. She presents to the board, frequently works with all members of the c-suite, and manages a pretty significant budget. Her boss is in the C-suite and only has 2 reports outside of her

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  • Man oh man…I feel like you’re writing what I should have 2 years ago. Well, here’s my story after relying on my judgement alone…

    Current jog: Legal; Fortune 500; base 250k; 25% equity/ 25%bonus; fully remote - hours varied depending on business demand. Some months 15hrs a week and others 60. I didn’t mind bc I knew when we were going to be busy and could brace for it. - I have a 2yr old and spending that extra time with her rather than commuting was highly valuable

    Offer: 325 base, no bonus, $400k RSU sign on and $200k annually thereafter. Smaller company which IPO’d two years prior and was down 60% post IPO. Job title looked better on paper but role was the same. 3 days in office requirement.

    Well, I put a premium on zero commute, WFH balance and spending time with my child (way more valuable than the base increase for me). It felt like the right decision (and still does), but the new company year 1 RSU’s would now be worth $2.5mil (not including the following annual grants). Meanwhile, current company RSU and ESPP contributions are down 35% since I began working there 6 years ago. I’m kicking myself for not making the uncomfortable decision at times, but it’s luck of the draw with RSUs.

    I still value the incredible time I’ve been experiencing as a WFH dad, but damn, it can sting at times when I see the $ I missed out on.

    Please don’t let that sway your opinion…merely good for thought.

    parent

    I'm in a similar position, though with about 70% of that comp. Chose to go with the WFH model at a better known company instead of the better pay and position at a 3 year old startup.

    Startup has been kicking ass and taking names, my house hold name company has been through 2 rounds of layoffs. I'm still here, but missing out on the extra comp and RSUs I would have gotten.

    Not just because of the money, but what the money means - freedom to retire earlier and spend even more time with my kiddo. Plus less stress from layoffs hanging over my head mean I'd be a happier papa.

    parent root

  • Seems too risky for what you get at your current life stage with the job market the way it is now. So I would stay at the current role.

    (1) New role sounds risky in terms of longevity for the time and effort to move. Also the first several months will certainly be stressful, on top of having very young kids at home

    (2) You mentioned your wife would potentially take a year to find a new role at 140K comp so for the first year you would be making less in terms of total HHI ($450K vs 500K) and the job market has been weak in general so it might take longer. Although with the lower cost of living, your money would probably go further.

    (3) Your current employer sounds stable and is interested in your career growth by offering a lateral move.

    (4) 2 hours is still a bit far for family to be truly helpful on a day to day basis.

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  • I’d stay put based on the info provided, which might be biased toward how you’re leaning.

    Most importantly - What’s the spouse want?

    parent

    They’re very excited about the prospect of being closer to family, but aware of the downsides as well. Supportive of moving, but won’t be disappointed if we decide to stay put.

    parent root

    This is a bit more of a complex decision because you’re also potentially relocating and will be closer to family. Have you looked into what the job prospects are in the new city if the VP role doesn’t work out?

    Looking just at the jobs - how important is the jump in salary for you? I’m at pretty similar numbers and recently decided not to pursue a VP role because I enjoy what I do and didn’t want to fly too close to the sun to make more money.

    For us, while we don’t make 7+ figures a year, we’re already at a point where more money won’t make a material difference and we’re pretty frugal. So I’m happy staying put in a job that I like.

    For you guys it might be worth making the jump and giving it a shot given the relocation - I probably would if I were you!

    parent root

    Job prospects are limited in the new city, I’d say only 2 other companies in similar industries. As for personal finances, we’re similarly frugal - the biggest benefit from the comp increase would be a better shot at retiring in early 50s vs we’re currently tracking toward early 60s.

    parent root

    OK, that’s helpful to keep in mind. Personally id be concerned to not find another job there and then being forced to potentially relocate again. Remote is always an option, but those jobs seem harder to come by now?

    Either way, you’re in a good spot and I wish you luck with your decision.

    parent root

    I’d be very wary about moving to MCOL if the career opportunities are that limited. Negotiate your comp at your current role.

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  • I’d probably stay put, but this is definitely in the personal finance arena. $220K base + $70K for a $280K TC hybrid role that you’re comfortable in is honestly pretty awesome. Where my head is at, is if you move companies and it doesn’t work, then what? Maybe I’m a bit of a doomer but I’ve learned the hard lesson wayyyy too many times that a bird in a bush is worth having three hands.

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  • I never understand the focus on market cap on these scenarios

    parent

    Market cap tells you the relative job title between the two options. A VP at a startup is not the same as a VP at fortune 10.

    parent root

    I think there is another factor. I have exactly the same profile .. 19+ years experience but same pay. 10-15 people team. Everyone at my level is called a supervisor. Director sounds so cool :) Market cap of my company is around 60B and we live in a low to mid cost location. I don’t know how HRs decide over these titles

    parent root

    I didn’t know that, I apologize. It is surprising how so many high earning job market experts need advice from strangers

    parent root

    Not really, it’s really easy to google “should I quit my Job and go to law school” and get a lot of well informed opinions. It’s really hard to google “should I leave my $400k job for a $500k job” as $400k+ puts you in the top 1%, and the pool is much smaller.

    One of the mind blowing things about America is that 1% of the population is more than 3,000,000. So there are 3 Million people making $400k+ a year, so the pool isn’t zero, but the # of people you interact with on a given day who make $400k+ might be zero.

    And of those you DO meet on any given day, you probably can’t reveal to most of them that you may want to leave your job.

    That’s kind of where this subreddit found such a niche, just like other hobbies. You might be the only person in your small town high school who likes dungeons and dragons, but there’s hundreds of thousands out there who do, and the internet lets them find each other.

    parent root

    Very well said

    parent root

    I think you are saying you shouldn’t need to ask strangers because numbers are numbers, and it’s really a matter of personal preference if you want to sacrifice longer commute for more money, etc. To which I agree

    parent root

    Well, I think you nailed an excellent point which is that so may of these are individual decisions, I can’t tell you how much a commute is worth, it depends on a lot of personal things.

    But I was trying to answer your question of “why do high earners ask these questions here” and my answer is, there’s not a lot of available information for high earners floating around, and asking your co-worker could be political suicide (vs when I was in the Army, I told a ton of people I hated the Army, lol)

    parent root

    No need to to apologize. We can always learn something from strangers regardless of income level.

    parent root

    What are the main differences nowadays? I’ve been under the impression that they’re quite similar in comp and benefits, but I come from the private tech world.

    parent root

    I’m sorry. Would you like me to delete my reply?

    parent root

    Being in a F100 company at seniority level X, you can very easily move to a small company at seniority level X++. You can also move sideways to other F100 at seniority level X.

    Being in a small company at seniority level X, it is incredibly hard to move to an F100 at the same level and nearly impossible at X++, unless you have really good networking and incredible stats at your previous job.

    parent root

    Status thing.

    Short way for OP to say when people ask him what he does, people will instantly know the first company but if he moves he'll have to explain what the company is/does along with his position.

    parent root

    It’s got not bearing on prestige though

    parent root

  • I was recently that 6 month 'prior hire'. I'd say to stay unless you want to take the risk of potentially switching again soon or being unhappy in it, while recognizing that the financial and other benefits could outweigh the risk for you. If I had known that I would be where I am now, I would not have left my prior company (and it was a pay cut, not an increase).

    Sounds like the company is relatively stagnant and it's unclear how the newer external hires have been perceived or how effective they have been at onboarding them and setting them up to succeed.

    parent

  • I'm a fan of more money but $1B market cap with mixed results over last 10 years... Is it positioned to deal with this AI wave? Acquisition, bankruptcy, etc are all outcomes that could jeopardize a longer term plan.

    parent

  • Wait, the VP opportunity is in the MCOL?

    So they're offering a 50% increase in comp AND halving your cost of housing?

    Decision was reasonably close before this piece of information, it's not close at all after this information.

    parent

  • I think it comes down to the explanation as to why the prior person lasted six months that would be a yellow flag for me, but if you don’t think that any of that applies to you, assuming that you do have the whole story, then I would say go for it

    parent

  • can your wife keep that $200k/yr job if you move?

    parent

    The post says they cannot and will have to take a pay cut and find a new job which to me is a major factor here.

    parent root

    oops, i totally missed that! thanks!

    parent root

  • What happens if 5 years go by and you're still a Director in your current role?

    What happens if 8 years go by and you're still a Director in your current role?

    Staying is risky, your career could stagnate, you've already been there 12 years.

    What happens if you jump, and the new company continues to muddle along in mediocrity for several years? Then you will have 12 years of experience up to Director level at a F100 company where you learned how to do things the right way, and 3-4 years as a VP at a mid-market company where mistakes were made that you learned how not to repeat. And now you are marketable for a fresh start.

    Staying seems a lot riskier for less money.

    parent

    All fair questions and considerations - my current employer is willing to give me a lateral opportunity in the next 6-12 months to keep things fresh, which I would think helps my resume both internally and externally long term. So I’m not concerned that I’ve plateaued or been pigeonholed, just that growth may not come as fast as I’d like it to.

    parent root

  • How solid are your finances? Emergency fund, liquid or taxable assets? This gives some breathing room if you’re looking to buy a new home in a new area with your wife job hunting.

    No chance for her to work remotely with her existing company?

    parent

  • What do you want in your career? If you want high risk high reward, go to the new job. If you are risk averse, then stay put.

    Switching jobs injects risk into both your career and your spouse’s career. With little kids at home, i’d choose the more stable path.

    parent

  • So while it’s 5d/wk your commute will be half the time. Something to consider. Honestly I do not think it’s a money question but lifestyle. Do you want to stay in Vhcol area? Do you see your kids growing there? Are there other opportunities if you are let go (for both roles). If a new role does not work out, what’s next?

    What’s the total org size for you? Those teams sound pretty small for director / vp. Are those line managers? 

    parent

  • Unless I missed it, I didn't see any detail on VP opportunity at current opportunity. Would the day to day change at all?

    I dealt with a similar situation recently. I would schedule meetings with your leadership group at your current opportunity. I would state your interest in the VP role and ask for advice. Ask how they acquired their positions and what it is you need to be doing now to prepare for the role.

    This will give you insight into the selection process but also set some expectations. From there you can better assess if its work the effort and potential risk. Plus, this also saves face for the future. You went and asked about a VP role. You were offered a VP role and took it, albeit somewhere else. Tell them you really appreciated the advice. You took it to heart and applied it to your career development. You'll leave on a much more positive note.

    parent

  • IMO the real tradeoff here is your career vs your spouse’s and I don’t think your step up is enough to justify them taking a break and earning potentially quite a bit more. Unless this is something they want you might be netting out household income to same for more stress for both of you - longer hours for you, career uncertainty for them?

    parent

  • I don't see your age or current amount of savings anywhere in the post, but if I'm you and I'm under 45 with a two year emergency fund, I'm not willing to be patient. If you take the other role and it doesn't work out, you have a ton going for you, and you'd roll into something else. Patience is expensive and relies on uncontrollable factors remaining reasonably constant.

    I was a new managing director in consulting in the early 2000s and left for a competitor for more money and a bigger role. The competitor struggled financially (more than what I expected, but not a total surprise. ) and I had to really grind to stay afloat. I lasted 7 years there, and that experience made me a very strong business operator, with skills far beyond my peers. I benefit from that shitshow to this day and truly value the expertise I built. (Despite the suffering at the time...)

    Time is life's currency... don't spend it waiting for others to make you a path... best of luck to you in whatever decision you make.

    parent

  • Wouldn’t hesitate. Make the move. Build your experience. That is how you move up.

    parent

  • Definitely take the job. More pay, lower COL, AND smaller team? Seems like a win on all fronts to me. I don’t know what the F100/market cap of the company has to do with it… Working at a F100 company is not really prestigious because corporate giants are known for paying less than smaller but higher growth companies.

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  • Can you call the guy who left and get his side of the story.

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  • The area you would be moving to, are there good future prospects for jobs if there was a layoff? VHCOL usually have more companies do easier to find a job.

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  • If the role is interesting, and there are other opportunities outside of this company if you need to change plans, go for it. Nothing pours jet fuel on a career like changing jobs and stretching yourself - staying put in an easy role can easily lead to stagnation

    parent

  • think if you can afford to be lazy

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  • If your WFH situation with current company changes and factoring in commute as hours away from home it's really only a 5hr/week difference. However, if it stays as proposed it's a true 10 hour a week difference. Coupled with your spouse's lost income this is considerable. However, if your spouse is interested in spending more time with the kids at this age and doesn't get an immediate job it could be a huge family improvement. I think this depends heavily on what your spouse wants to do.

    parent

  • The stress is not worth the 150k imo. Negotiate for more at your current company. Unless you really want to relocate, then may be worth considering.

    parent

  • I had a similar decision and I choose the second option (MCOL and more money). It has been a fantastic option for us. We are bigger fish in a smaller pond, very strong economic security, great house and walkable, access to family and there was a reason why the job paid more - the company wasn’t afraid to spend on talent and we continue to grow and succeed

    We miss our VHCOL and I work a bit harder than before, but the extra work is a tiny blip on the radar. After I built up goodwill, I have plenty of flexibility. Our house is now a comfy home for my wife and kid, which makes them happy, and family nearby (so long as you like the) is so underrated.

    Goodluck OP

    parent

  • Your potential opportunity has a fancy title but the compensation of a senior software engineer. Have you considered taking a less stressful role at a bigger company, with about the same pay but less vanity title? The compromise is you can spend more time with your family.

    parent

  • I was in a similar situation 6 months ago. Wonderful remote role as a Director with great respect internally that supported me in every way. Got offered more money in a bigger role with an organization that was much smaller and in office 4 days a week (Friday remote). Worst move of my career. Money is not worth what I gave up. Reaching back out to chart a path back. Praying there is a way back or a better opportunity out there. I just didn’t see a progression ladder and wanted to see how far could I go. I no longer want that and am happy with the very comfortable life I had. Peace of mind is priceless.

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  • I’d stay put. A 150k bump isn’t that big weighed against the trade offs.

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  • Any potential to get more WFH from either?

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  • Walkability to town centre + promo + 50% increase, + friends + spouse has more time + improved housing cost & cashflow winner winner chicken dinner.

    Middle of the pack is cute c-suite feedback but may just be appeasing words also, 3-5 year wait is possible 500-750k of forfeited salary at the new job.

    Change jobs 100%

    parent