It’s infuriating when kids love the dad more after we grew, birthed, and did everything for while the dad just showed up once or twice in their life. Like, what?
This might be a hot take, but what I find very unhelpful of those 'courses' is that while they do tell to "help around the house" barely any actually explain how.
I had the "luck" of learning by myself since I am curious and do want to pull my weight, but I think this kind of resources lack the awareness that men were socialized to avoid chores.
It's not even a lack of education, it's actively education in the wrong direction.
Yes, this is below the bare minimum, but I see it similarly to how some kids get raised illiterate. How much of it is individual responsibility, and how much should be attributed to neglect? People don't learn to read unless they're taught how to. That applies to other skills too.
What exactly would you need in-depth instruction in? Learning how to do chores is not at all the same as learning how to read, a process that takes at least half a year for basic literacy, and several years for advanced levels of literacy.
I agree, it probably was a poor similitude.
What I wanted to convey was that the message "help around the house" is a poor one and it perpetuates the problem.
Helping implies that the man's responsibility is to provide support instead of sharing the burden.
Helping isn't enough and men in large aren't taught how to do more than that.
Which is a disservice to everybody involved.
To be clear my intent is not to excuse any behavior.
I was expressing my view on the sort of "trainings" the post talks about, most of the time the content is very superficial and it does subtly perpetrate bias.
Don't you think that the idea that men should "help" is not the point? How is "helping" enough in sharing the burden of running an household?
Claiming that men should "help" implies that we play a supporting role and are on the sidelines, instead of having equal responsibilities.
My point is that men aren't aware of this because it's not part of our socialization, even to the point that we are socialized against that.
Put soapy water on a rag and wash something! There are different soaps for different situations so READ bottles! Watch what your wife does for a day and don’t make her micromanage/nag you. Just do what needs done.
That's...
I manage the vast majority of household chores. Cooking, laundry, filling the pantry and keeping things neat and organized.
The only task I loathe doing was vacuuming, so I bought a vacuuming robot.
I know my way around detergents, and I understand what heat is most appropriate for different types of textiles. What should be dry-cleaned and what shouldn't.
What "needs to be done" isn't "helping". Personally, I find it borderline insulting - but I am aware that the expectations are what they are.
Maybe it's because I didn't passively learn these things while I was growing up, but IMO, the set of skills needed to run a household isn't trivial.
I find the belief of it being trivial problematic, it diminishes the complexity and value of work usually done by women.
Partners shouldn't help, they should contribute.
My point was that telling men to help still implies that the responsibility lies primarily on the woman, which it shouldn't.
Hell, household management is gendered to such a degree that when it came up in discussion, my girlfriend at the time used to comment that she "wore the pants in the relationship" or that she "was basically the man of the house".
Uh do they need step by step tutorials on how to wash dishes or how to change diapers? Im sure such normal tasks all women are expected to do still has turorials on the internet but do the man children need directions on how to look them up as well?
It's wild how the blame for poor male behavior is always placed on women. If women were failing to show up for men like this, we'd blame them for their own behavior and hold them accountable for it. But since it's men, we blame the women for choosing them instead.
And there is still men who fail to get over than bar.
The one that always triggers me, and I see it on social media constantly, is it'll be a video of a father doing something really basic like playing with his daughter. And all the comments will be "omg gotta love girl dad's 🩷🩷🩷" and "that man deserves a medal 🥺". Like, no he doesn't. He's doing, quite literally, the easiest and most fun part of being a parent. That's it.
And yet you literally never, ever see videos of Mom's playing with their kids. Let alone the same sentiment as a reaction to it.
If its a mom playing with her kids then the comments will question her parenting and talk about how she is doing it wrong. Its exhausting for mothers.
The bar is so low Hades is tripping on it
Fathers doing the most basic things are perceived as a glorious act that we are blessed to witness.
Are we still telling men they should "help"? Surely, it's just doing their fair share of the workload.
It’s infuriating when kids love the dad more after we grew, birthed, and did everything for while the dad just showed up once or twice in their life. Like, what?
This might be a hot take, but what I find very unhelpful of those 'courses' is that while they do tell to "help around the house" barely any actually explain how.
I had the "luck" of learning by myself since I am curious and do want to pull my weight, but I think this kind of resources lack the awareness that men were socialized to avoid chores.
It's not even a lack of education, it's actively education in the wrong direction.
Yes, this is below the bare minimum, but I see it similarly to how some kids get raised illiterate. How much of it is individual responsibility, and how much should be attributed to neglect? People don't learn to read unless they're taught how to. That applies to other skills too.
What exactly would you need in-depth instruction in? Learning how to do chores is not at all the same as learning how to read, a process that takes at least half a year for basic literacy, and several years for advanced levels of literacy.
I agree, it probably was a poor similitude.
What I wanted to convey was that the message "help around the house" is a poor one and it perpetuates the problem.
Helping implies that the man's responsibility is to provide support instead of sharing the burden.
Helping isn't enough and men in large aren't taught how to do more than that.
Which is a disservice to everybody involved.
Playing dumb is a misogynistic game. Don't ask me how to get you out of it. You are one of the game players, so you figure it out.
To be clear my intent is not to excuse any behavior.
I was expressing my view on the sort of "trainings" the post talks about, most of the time the content is very superficial and it does subtly perpetrate bias.
Don't you think that the idea that men should "help" is not the point? How is "helping" enough in sharing the burden of running an household?
Claiming that men should "help" implies that we play a supporting role and are on the sidelines, instead of having equal responsibilities.
My point is that men aren't aware of this because it's not part of our socialization, even to the point that we are socialized against that.
Put soapy water on a rag and wash something! There are different soaps for different situations so READ bottles! Watch what your wife does for a day and don’t make her micromanage/nag you. Just do what needs done.
That's... I manage the vast majority of household chores. Cooking, laundry, filling the pantry and keeping things neat and organized.
The only task I loathe doing was vacuuming, so I bought a vacuuming robot.
I know my way around detergents, and I understand what heat is most appropriate for different types of textiles. What should be dry-cleaned and what shouldn't.
What "needs to be done" isn't "helping". Personally, I find it borderline insulting - but I am aware that the expectations are what they are.
Maybe it's because I didn't passively learn these things while I was growing up, but IMO, the set of skills needed to run a household isn't trivial.
I find the belief of it being trivial problematic, it diminishes the complexity and value of work usually done by women.
Partners shouldn't help, they should contribute.
My point was that telling men to help still implies that the responsibility lies primarily on the woman, which it shouldn't.
Hell, household management is gendered to such a degree that when it came up in discussion, my girlfriend at the time used to comment that she "wore the pants in the relationship" or that she "was basically the man of the house".
This is a crazy statement
Uh do they need step by step tutorials on how to wash dishes or how to change diapers? Im sure such normal tasks all women are expected to do still has turorials on the internet but do the man children need directions on how to look them up as well?
The bar is low for Chad
The bar is low for men in general. Don’t bring your incel bullshit into this.
I've seen both "Chads" and "Freddy Kruger lookalikes" act as if doing the laundry or changing a diaper is something men are simply incapable of doing.
Ugly men are rarely any less entitled and misogynistic than attractive men are.
It's true but it's the same vice versa. Human problem of letting physical attractiveness blind us of someone's moral issues
It’s just nature
[removed]
"women have too many choices, that's the problem" ok buddy
It's wild how the blame for poor male behavior is always placed on women. If women were failing to show up for men like this, we'd blame them for their own behavior and hold them accountable for it. But since it's men, we blame the women for choosing them instead.
[removed]
This explanation still avoids holding men accountable for how they treat others.
r/lostredditors
It's not 'human nature', it's human couture