Spoiler for anyone who hasnt seen episode 4 yet But it makes sense. They injured themself to avoid going into battle/harming others
Theyre the only faction that wouldnt have a need for cold fusion and explains why dane would want it out of tje hands of the brotherhood
Plus "You never have to apologize for not killing someone" is very followers-esque.
Dane do far is my favorite character in the tv show. Arcade gannon was my favorite in the video games.
So I'm guessing that when Dane held up Maximus' hand and praised him as a knight, that was to make sure Max won't be persecuted by making him a hero. Prior to S2 I was under the impression that they were just as fanatical to the Brotherhood.
Now that it's very unlikely that Dane is a Commonwealth spy, it does seem convincing that they're affiliated to a different well-intentioned faction like the Followers.
Im excited to see who gave away information to the Commonwealth it couldve been any of the tribes heads thus far.
Im still not 100% convinced he was Commonwealth
I never considered he could he lying. What if Maximus falls ass backwards into another leadership role when it turns out Xander went rogue and hijacked all that shit.
I initially took him at face value, but now I think he's an Enclave spy.
Turns up, alone in a vertibird. That's gotta be a 10-20 hour flight? Sent one guy? No lancer to pilot for him or at least split the drive? No scribe to catalogue and handle the artefact? No credentials beyond turning up in a Vertibird in power armour.
He seemed to arrive barely after the other (geographically far closer) representatives of the other chapters. Which means he probably had to leave (the commonwealth) before the meeting was even called.
Not interested in Quintus' sedition, only artefact retrieval. Doesn't seem that bothered by the idea of a inter Brotherhood war, and of course the Brotherhood are old enemies of the Enclave.
Now we know. the Enclave have a base nearby to California, as that's where Wilzig comes from in S1. We know they have an interest in the cold fusion tech, as they took on the development (again, Wilzig). The Enclave have access to power armour and could have easily repainted a suit of T-60 with Brotherhood markings, and they have Vertibirds. Makes a big speech about 'order', the big deal for the Enclave.
I've got other ideas that Hank is working for the Enclave, along with all the FEV hints that have been dropped this season, I think the last reveal is going to be that the Enclave is the big boogyman at this point.
Don’t forget that star spangled banner is playing during his fight with the securitron. I’m of the same opinion he might be enclave.
I clocked that too. It depends if the music is part of the soundtrack or playing in universe IMO. If it's soundtrack then yeah I'd take it as a clue he's Enclave. If the securitron is playing it then it might just be to add a bit of spice to the scene.
The music cuts out exactly as the securitron is destroyed so it could be either really. I'd have to rewatch the scene to see if there's a variation in the volume as the camera moves relative to the characters to see if there's an indication if it's soundtrack or in universe.
Enclave and/or a synth. Imo I feel that the enclave had to have had a hand in the institute existing or being formed, especially with the plot of 3 revealing that the enclave was basically fronted by an AI/computer president. I have a feeling that the 2 house brother's are connected to it and that Anthony could have pivoted H&H tools into military contracts as an off the books "Wayne enterprises" style cia front to combat westtek and big mountains control of the military industrial complex if he isn't already pulling the strings behind both. Robco already had extremely large military and civilian contracts pre war and it only makes sense the other brother may have had other companies apart from H&H tools, imo I believe he may be connected to Repconn and be behind the in universe equivalent of nasa/space force or even the American navy which seems to be nonexistent. I also feel like the other house is going to be leader of the enclave at the eventual reveal. The alien reveal at A51 also leads me to believe that pre war the existence of aliens was well known + was probably behind the entire resource war between China and America and the formation of vault tek and other corporations as trying to catch up to the technology that aliens have shown. Lots of directions and potential they can play with.
I figured that it was the Securitron playing the music
I've driven 18 hours in one stretch before. Wouldn't recommend it for obvious reasons but it's not like I was pushing the limits of human ability. Maybe he took a panzerschokolade for the journey and had a grand old time.
It's possible of course, but sending him into a charged negotiation that could easily descend into violence after a long flight, alone seems... poorly planned.
If it was going to descend into violence anything less than a winning force would just be a waste of soldiers. He's sent out to see what's salvageable and what the internal lines of division are. They didn't expect their envoy to get blasted on arrival and they were right about that, at least. Quintus doesn't just want indepedence, he wants control of the whole Brotherhood. Murdering the Commonwealth envoy could close the door to subsuming their leadership peacefully and looks bad to all the other leaders of the Brotherhood chapters. After Knight Maximus suggests to just off the envoy, Quintuis imo rightfully says ''Behold the dimness of the sword, if we kill Xander, the envoy from the Commonwealth, it will be war. Without the support of the other chapter it will end with our heads on spikes''.
You could just as well be right of course. I just don't think Xander's credentials suspect on the surface.
Hm, not sure I fully agree here. Sure if the objective was to fight a conventional battle against the rebellion, the EC BoS would have to go in heavy force, but a small team could still wipe out the rebel leadership, or steal the artefact, or both.
Even if that's not their plan, having more than one person makes sense. What if he gets injured? Sick? Hell, S1 indicates you basically need a squire for long missions in power armour to fill up water reserves and food. What if they do capitulate and hand over the relic? Surely you'd want a scribe on hand to look after it properly. If he'd turned up with a scribe, a squire, and a lancer, and maybe a knight or two as backups I'd buy it more easily. Xander could still be the "point" character we interact with, and the others just unnamed background characters
Not purging other factions is possibly how the Commonwealth has managed to retain nominal fealty of the other factions, despite the obviously indepedent nature of the other chapters.
If they were willing to hand over the artifact they would probably be willing to provide an escort for such a priceless object. Maybe they would even send some leadership along to formalize the reconciliation.
Having some more characters along with him would give his arrival some more fanfare though, it's a good idea.
We also now know Maxson is alive, yeah he isnt doing it like this.
If a Vertibird has the same cruise speed as V-22 Osprey it's "only" about 8 hours.
Hm. You know we have a way to test vertibird speed don't we? Pick two real landmarks in fallout 4 and fly a vertibird from one to the other and measure against your pip boy's clock, and compare it to the distance.
Yeah could do that but I have a feeling that Vertibirds in Fo4 travel at the speed of the plot.
Edit: Also they may not even get up to cruise speed for a quick hop across Boston vs a cross country flight.
True, I guess it only establishes a minimum speed. Might fire it up tonight and give it a go though.
Did you get any results?
I think he may have been (or been around them) but that he was no longer. He was trying to get that sweet cold fusion before anyone checked his stats.
Maybe the Yosemite elder? She's the one who mentioned Elder Maxson, so who knows?
Didn't the Yosemite elder say she summoned the Commonwealth
I mean i imagine commonwealth has a way to track or bug communications.
Kind of hard to assemble all the chapters of the brotherhood without someone somewhere saying something over an unsecure line.
Dane 100% was just trying to cement maximus as the hero so they would be safe. Dane was protecting him especially given we see just how much Dane judges max for killing.
I do mostly agree with this, however, it would be an incredible (and likely unpredictable) opportunity to do this with someone you're already ingratiated yourself with, if you did have ulterior motives or some other mission.
Dane is a wing-fella.
Their decision loop is 100% 'how do I make sure my only friend survives this clusterfuck' and it worked.
Also they're vastly smarter than the other members of the Brotherhood.
Yeah I would buy them being a Follower.
I just don’t understand why didn’t they go with Maximus and Thadeus?
You can only have one companion at a time and Maximus wasn’t finished with Thaddeus’s questline.
Oh my god, it really is just like the game now that you think about it. Notice how the main trio have never once been working with together all at the same time either
Yup. Lucy is playing Fallout 3 where Dogmeat doesn’t count as a companion slot so she’s able to have Dogmeat and Ghoul in her party at the same time. Norm is playing 76 with all the MMO vault dwellers unleashed into the wasteland at the same time.
Hank is an asshole and no companions want anything to do with him.
Fallout 4 was also supposed to allow Dogmeat as a second companion, there’s a mod that lets it work surprisingly well
Chef's kiss 👌
May have stayed behind to protect the kids.
That one kid was looking a little suspicious though…
I assume you mean “looks suspicious to the audience” but if you mean “had a suspicious look on their face” I’d say, I’d also be suspicious of someone taking me and the other younger people and telling us not to come out of a room until the shooting stops. Plus, Dane might not have the best reputation as a “failed” squire promotion.
I’m guessing there’s something up with that aspirant, the camera panned on him specifically for way too long
It's Max's squire or whatever. Its the kid who asked why Maximus was washing his face. Max has been teaching him in the way of the codex. The Codex which he just broke, unintentionally starting the civil war. Max Probably gonna try to "save" the kid from the Brotherhood, only for the kid to go Zealot on Max due to his and maybe now Quintus' influence.
Ooooh! Good catch!
I meant both. I’m afraid he’s gonna get Dane in hot water.
Probably keeping the aspirants safe, and a single large group escaping would draw way more attention than 2 guys running away
My theory is they free the elder to show loyalty, next time we see Dane they’ll be in power armor as a Paladin—fast forward and Dane probably ends up as the new elder and Max as some NCR General. Just a theory.
If not they'd be a good fit, let's just hope the Follower's motives haven't decayed as much as the Brotherhood's have.
Yea I was actually thinking that myself after the episode. That the three of them and even the gaggle of kids could maybe end up with the followers after they get away.
Maximus and Thaddeus could send word to Dane to sneak away and meet them once things settle down.
Dane is a true one. I wasn't sold on the character at first but, I've definitely warmed up to them now.
I was sold the moment they told Maximus that nowhere’s safe, which really turned up the intensity of the mood just before the battle at the observatory.
Same! At first I was like eh, but now I’m sold after this ep, excited to see what happens next for them.
I don’t feel that they are the best actor in the world, but I guess it’s intentional writing to have everyone in the Brotherhood act like wooden caricatures of soldiers.
Same here! The idea that they already knew how bad it was out there. The follow through on injuring yourself but saying you were too scared to go patrol the wastes. Yeah, the paladins are ruthless to their squires but it takes a lot to hurt yourself like that.
Then when we get back, they’re right up under Quintus like his second hand. Even manages to use their word to protect Max—meaning Quintus trusts them pretty well.
I really hope we get some confirmation soon, but it might not matter until later seasons.
Dane is one of the very few people in the TV show who isn't "fudging awful"... dont get me wrong it hurts me to see the Mojave desolate and empty of the promise of civilisation...but at least there are sound folks still out there, and ostensibly with the BoS too?
I teared up seeing McCarran fallen, all those gladii in their backs. Looks like Hoover Dam 2: Electric Boogaloo was a phyrric victory for both sides
As a big Brotherhood of Steel fan, Max and Dane are what I think the true BoS should be about. Roger Maxson would be proud of them and I'd love for them to either start their own chapter.
I think it’s leading up to Maximus starting his own chapter of the Brotherhood Of Steel. His story mirrors Roger Maxson in a way. There’s also other knights who feel the same way too.
Either that or he joins the NCR. The trailers show Thadeus walking next to someone in the Ranger Power Armour.
Oh I know. But I feel that would be temporary and he’s going to make his own Brotherhood. There’s the kids, Dane and probably surviving members.
Man episode 3 should have shown you Maxson would absolutely not feel that way. They hate ghouls. Maximus can see the human in ghouls still. Maxson would see him as weak for that, don't kid yourself
Maxson was someone from prewar who was scared of the chared corpses running around that had never been seen before.
Him being racist is a lot more justified than when how ghouls work is known.
I don't believe so. Roger Maxson wrote the codex while in Lost Hill. Not knowing the difference between the feral ghouls and non-feral ghouls.
Oh shit, my bad. I was very much thinking of the current day Maxson I do, however, agree with you that Maximus and Dane represent what good can be done with the Brotherhood name. Its a shame they will probably defect. Understandably in this situation but I would like to see again one truly valiant version of the brotherhood.
Oh yeah. Arthur Maxson tells his soldiers not to go out of their way to hunt non-feral ghouls but I doubt he has much problem with it. Roger Maxson might have never even met a ghoul when he created the brotherhood. And Maximus killing a superior to do the right thing with no plan is very similar to what Maxson did that started it all in the first place
Oh shit is maximus going to start a new non-psychotic bos chapter and make contact with the commonwealth? Cause that would be cool
It looks to me a lot more like they (along with Lucy, Cooper, Norm, etc) are going to end up revitalizing the NCR. The NCR is being telegraphed as The Good Guys, Maximus came from Shady Sands which Hank (as main antagonist) destroyed, etc. I think the whole bit where one of the only NCR troopers around points to Cooper telling him they even allowed ghouls in shortly after Maximus sent Harkness to horny jail over ghouls is foreshadowing.
Yeah. The only two times so far in the series they’ve played the Fallout main theme (the Inon Zur one) is when Lucy finds the NCR flag in season 1 and when the rangers offer to help her in season 2. NCR is being telegraphed as the heroes so hard in the show
we do know out of what we as the players witness in fallout 76 that mindless/feral ghouls have existed since 2102. arthur maxson was alive up until 2135. that, and plenty of first hand accounts of people getting ghoulified within the first couple months of the bombs dropping gives me the impression he probably has ran into some feral ghouls in his lifetime. it's just that the perils of the wasteland were still very new to the survivors of the war still, so a lot of it was a complete unknown of what they were dealing with. even by 2161 a lot of the wastes were still terra incognita.
Not after this show's retcon because now the Codex(written by Roger Maxson) says killing ghoul is the first rule of the Brotherhood.
Roger Maxson wrote the codex while in Lost Hill Bunker after only a few weeks experiencing the wasteland. When it was written they didn't know the difference between feral ghouls and non-feral.ghouls. I believe that, if he had more experience or.if he could rewrite it now. He wouldn't kill ghoul children.
I don’t remember the specific line but I believe he was talking about killing abominations. Now I think all BoS chapters consider even intelligent ghouls abominations but killing them is (for most chapters) such a low priority that it may not even be considered one of their goals. Also, when Roger Maxon wrote the codex he was not even aware of the existence of non feral ghouls afaik.
That's why Dane is the GAOT! The GOAT!
Dane is real one, I love them
All of them?
I agree... but I also wouldn't put it past the writers to just make them a regular brotherhood member who wants a change in leadership. I don't have any faith in the writers at this point.
That faction is also probably dead or decaying by this point. Maybe in the middle of a civil war if they’re lucky.
Nah, they're fine. The Followers aren't centralized so it's really unlikely they'd be dead.
The Followers of the apocalypse are probably a mass grave with feral ghouls pissing on them, wait for it next week.
If they were, why try to convince maximus to stay in the brotherhood season 1?
Also I would keep my expectations low of how the followers are going to be portrayed
I love Dane, their bond with Max is so wholesome.
I just wish Dane had more screen time and not just couple of lines, but at least they were the mvp of episode 4
Dane puts the fist in pacifist.
Circle of Steel feels more likely, but both could work
I hope this theory for Dane is true is true, but it’s also still a high chance that the writers go with the less original idea of Dane simply wanting to overhaul the West Coast BOS.
Thank you for sharing, I love them as a character!
This has been my theory too! I also played around with the idea of them being an undercover Railroad agent, and that's why they injured their foot, so they could stay closer to Quintus 👀
That was my exact thoughts aswell
I think they'd joing the followers but are in a similar situation to Maximus in that they've been part of the brotherhood since childhood but has just seen through the indoctrination to actually be a good person.
Honestly, the boot thing was just them being scared imo. Scared of change, scared of the unknown of going out into the wasteland, and scared of continuing up the ranks of an organisation they don't believe in.
I think the rest can just be explained as them trying to sabotage the BoS, or at least the worst parts of it, while trying to encourage Max to be a good person.
Bold of you to assume the followers still exist.
Would explain how someone got HRT in the commonwealth. I’m half joking but it’s fun to think about
This sounds interesting. And I hope you're right. Because I just do not give a shit about the Dane character right now.