My boy Walton Goggins casually just fucking slaying his role. As always. He's never missed the mark, and as far as I've seen he doesnt even play Fallout, but he gives us a Ghoul the games just won't be able to match. "Oh yeah he's carrying the show" blah blah yeah well that's called good at his job. I'm glad to see him shine for longer than the likes of Predators, or Django Unchained, because he was a menace in both of those and I've been itching to see him main that archetype.
Edit: I woke up to a lot of notifications lmao no I havent watched his shows, I stopped watching television in like 2012 so I'll need to follow some of your links, thank you for that:)
Blasphemy! One must grab every piece of junk, and if you get over-encumbered, then comes the difficult task of triaging the junk to decide which one you really need to take.
The thing I have learned with entertainment is that you don't need to be a loremaster or a fan from the beginning to push the work forward, you just need to significantly care. If you care about telling a good story you can turn anything great and if you don't care, you could have been there from the beginning and send it to the trash.
He’s a great actor, I love him in every role he plays. He was great in Righteous Gemstones as Uncle Baby Billy. And then he was hilarious in Vice Principals, a real bastard in Django, and so much more I’m sure I’m forgetting. I love the contrast of his character as a pre-apocalypse actor/spy and the jaded bastard of a ghoul he is now. The man has depth.
Boyd Crowder in Justified. Teeth that glow in the dark. The show is definitely cheesy at times, but Goggins and Olyphant are great and play off each other very well.
If you think you love Walton Goggins now...just wait.
And thanks!
(Also I know you said you aren't much for TV but he stars in two comedies that are well worth it: Vice Principals and Righteous Gemstones. Walton Goggins will never let you down)
my view of WG completely changed cause of this show. I hated him in the shield, where he played an assholr cop. watching VP, I realized that he is an incredible actor with huge range. I haven't seen a better comedy since...
While people are suggesting things, might I rec The Righteous Gemstones. He takes a few episodes to show up but tie whole cast is great. A dramedy about a mega church running family lead by John Goodman.
Has the perk of being a TV show you will know whether you are in-or not-in the first scene.
I will agree with this. Also they kinda broke Fallout 4 again with the anniversary update. I do wish they'd focus on getting out a new game and stop fucking up the old ones. At least the show is giving us something new and in a future timeline.
I thought Settler Built Settlements would be fun, but it's kind of a risk to game integrity and still just the guy in overalls bumping into shit and the old lady bugging me for drugs.
You want Some Sim Settlements 2; phenomenal settlement building mechanics and a quest line that's at least as well-written as the main story, maybe better.
They took a long ass break from their usual TES>Fallout>TES rotation to develop a whole new ip in a new universe with new updates to their game engine and were banking on people keeping busy with that and the re-releases of their old games. Not to mention the ridiculous amount of resources they must be allocating to continuously update and push their microtransaction store on us while simultaneously breaking their old games that worked fine before.
Starfield was intended to be a "forever" game, so they banked on that hard. Unfortunately they fell into the trap of overselling and underdelivering because they tried for far too much scope. And with abandoning support early, there's no current drip feed of Bethesda releases. I just hope they've learnt what didn't work and are avoiding doing the same with TES/Fallout
Skyrim gets a pass for its many shortcomings because it's still interesting to go out and explore the map. You organically run into weird and interesting little stories like the woman who is pretending to be a little old herb lady but has a secret murder dungeon under her hut.
Finding a dead mage on the ground surrounded by scorch marks and a journal going on about how they are so close to figuring out a new spell.
Or you find a lighthouse filled with dead bodies and read the journal of a woman who documents that her children are slowly going missing and if you explore further you find that the Falmer had tunnelled into the cellar of the lighthouse and were responsible for the tragedy.
Starfield had pretty much none of that, it was built with the idea that randomly generated planets were inherently interesting, with the same few locations copy and pasted between them. There's nothing worth discovering by playing it, I can think of hundreds of cool little self-contained stories I have found while randomly exploring the map in Fallout games, Oblivion, Skyrim etc. but Starfield only has its standard quests that offer any sort of story and those are painfully bad.
Yeah strange that Bethesda, a company whose games are KNOWN and lauded for their environmental storytelling and explorable maps, sold Starfield on the premise of randomly generated planets. Like, what’s the point of exploring if there’s nothing of interest to find?
Skyrim and Fallout 4 both suffered from the same "you're the king of everything but can't make any meaningful decisions" style gameplay. You show up, do a few quests, you're suddenly in charge of whatever that faction is but nothing actually changes.
at least fallout 4 does not let you to lead all 4 factions simultanously. You can only lead at max 2 if you go with institute and only one if you go with other faction. From TES it's actuallly went like that because it's always been that way from Morrowind where your chosen one got unlimited freedom to join any faction and even rose rank until you became the leader but yeah they just forgot to implement how it should impact the main story.
on Fallout at least all the factions on 4 are the main story.
They took a detour and made a couple mid games FO76 and Starfield. Plus the loss of time during the pandemic, and here we are. Game dev takes longer than ever, and Todd refuses to let someone else work on any mainline entries in either series. And MS won't/hasn't let someone else touch the IP to make a NV type game.
I was going to make a joke about Ermesande Hayford being Catherine the Great.
But I couldn't remember her name, so I typed "Tyrek" into Google and I swear to god, it autocompleted Tyrek is a horse and I just about lost it. I truly thought you were just being cheeky. Thank you for that laugh.
I checked to see how long it was between Fallout 2 and 3 and wow, it was only 10 years. The gap has been longer now, and that one involved cancelled games and studios swapping the rights.
It basically was. And Bethesda did a couple of really smart things with how they did it. Some dumb stuff too, but it worked.
Then they spent far too long on Starfield trying to not make it "fallout in space" when letting it be "Fallout in space" would have probably been better than what we got.
That's been the biggest surprise for me. I would've bet money that they had a remaster ready to roll for season one. But no, we got some weird shoe horned Walton Goggins in 76 nonsense.
Mostly that so far every location shown from New Vegas has been destroyed when people wanted to actually see what had happened in the meantime. "It's gone" being the answer to every location is pretty disheartening.
I hope we are last get an explanation for it in the next few episodes cause otherwise it feels like they've simply gone out of their way to work New Vegas out of any importance to the franchise going forwards.
This is more of a show pacing and setting point, but with Shady Sands was destroyed off screen and people were more bothered because of what it meant for the NCR and the world in general, but not because they actually had strong attachment to Shady Sands. We had never seen the version of Shady Sands that gets destroyed, only heard about it.
With New Vegas it's different because they chose to go to the location of the game with the biggest cult following and then have also destroyed that.
When you're basically going on a field trip down memory lane for the game and every single stop is "see that location/faction you loved? It's dead now" then making the audience wait to find out why, and offering little to no reprieve from the "it's dead now" trip. It just sucks more to watch.
Like the New Vegas part so far has been Novac which is abandoned and taken over by the Khans, who are then massacred, followed by the legion, who are massively weakened, to Camp Golf, which is an abandoned ruin, to the NCR, who are dying, to the Kings, who are all ghouls now, to the Strip, which is abandoned and in ruins. They should have let us have some reprieve. Go to a Goodsprings or Primm and just once so far have it not be dead. Changed? Sure, just not dead.
Well it's stated that DC is doing great due to the water purifier.
Unfortunately, FO3 was set 25 years before the show, therefore logically, according to many people in this sub, that means Rivet city, megaton, the BoS, underworld, little lamplight, big town and the water purifier MUST be completely wiped out with not a survivor in sight, or actively dying.
After all it's been 25 years, you can't just expect them to start the same, right? The only option is for everyone to die right? It's a post-apocalypse! /S
If the Legion made it to Mccarran they must have won at the dam, only for Caesar's death to bring them down. Damn, the canon courier was either useless or a real bastard.
I know none of the endings are going to be canon but the Kings being ghouls and House being around (from previews looks like he still may be) would actually leave only one possible ending. You do the House ending and also do a few specific quests for the Kings like driving the NCR out of freeside. That’s the only way to get House to be alive at the end of FNV and also have him not kill the Kings (so they could be ghoulified later).
I love the show but that’s my main complaint. “Hey remember this cool ass place from the games, well guess what? We’re heading there next episode! Ah wouldn’t ya know it? Fucking gone and destroyed”
Edit: so for clarification I didn’t mean I think the entire show should just be a walkthrough of fallout 1,2, and NV and I hate it because it’s not. I still love the show. It’s not all or nothing, It just irks me that everything that used to be some form of new society is now just in ruin.
I feel similarly, Bethesda is advising on a season of a show focusing on a game by Obsidian widely regarded by the fans to be the best of the modern titles... and the only modern game not made by Bethesda... and interestingly a choice has been made to wipe it all out, yet Elder Maxon, a Bethesda character from a Bethesda game is confirmed alive and well.
I adore the show, but it is noticeable that the Betheada created lore and characters seem safe, while the Obsidian created lore and characters are not.
Gonna bet some money on seeing Fisto still kicking in Freeside on the next few episodes lol he can surely rival Elder Maxson's status as being 'alive and well'
I wouldn't read too much into it. Bethesda loves wiping out previous game settings, even their own. Like how in Skyrim Vvardenfel had been blown up by the volcano and Cyrodiil had been ravaged by war with many cities burned. Personally I'm half expecting that in TES VI we'll hear that the Thalmor have regrouped and crushed Skyrim
People with the comeback "you just want a TV show that follows the FO1/FO2/FNV story" are just stupid. There's so many potential stories that can be done across California and Nevada. If the show wanted a wasteland feel then it shouldn't have been on the West Coast, put it somewhere in the US we haven't seen before.
Yeah, and they're just casually confirming FO4's endings no problem. The Commonwealth chapter this, the Commonwealth chapter that. Elder Maxson won't be happy.
Why is the show totally fine to confirm FO4's endings but not FNV?
I don't understand how that's anyone's takeaway from the last episode. He said they should go to the other side where people are to find out what's going on.
Then at the end of the episode we see exactly why it was destroyed... Am I missing something?
Securitrons, casino gangs, NCR contingent, strong wall defenses, Apocalypse disciples, and other gate mercs, with the gun runners on one side and the van graffs on the other to arm everyone to the teeth... Then there's the hover dam being a strategic asset ensuring that NV stays populated by factions interested in its power output and the prosperity that it brings, which ensures a high population, not to mention the NV vault that can act as a stronghold.
New vegas didn't fall from a deathclaw invasion, it couldn't have, this must have came after. There has to be something else that provoked the fall.
I'm convinced the reason New Vegas is deserted is because somebody set off a dirty bomb. Hence the radiation and The Kings being feral ghouls. So now the whole area is uninhabitable
My assumption this season is that they've come to a New Vegas that was devastated by the courier from the game and never came back. Like the legion is fractured, the NCR is nothing and it looks like the strip was destroyed probably because the courier killed house. That's my running theory so far.
Who says that there are any people there though? He also said there should be people in the Strip and look at it. We met the Ghoul in California and it’s pretty clear that it’s been more than a minute since he was last in the New Vegas area.
One of the prominent Freeside factions was already shown to be ferals and now they’re all dead too.
I would much prefer wider area of North America be explored than the same locations. I hope they are wrapping stories up from the games to prep for a new game in a larger setting
They’re going to explain it. They just got there in the episode. They explained what happened to Shady Sands eventually. They’ll eventually explain this too
I mean, people keep saying 'lore' but is that really what upsets them? From what I hear, what's primarily upset them seems to have been things like Shady Sands being nukes, the Strip being destroyed, Novac taken over, etc. And that seems less lore and more like they don't like how the show is handling fairly beloved locations and characters (The King, for example), and that's just kind of a disagreement on the direction of the setting and its story as a whole.
The narrative point of Fallout is about rebuilding and moving forward, so seeing the places that had been rebuilding and moving forward get torn down and destroyed, especially since these locales are things players personally invested themselves into the preservation or destruction is going to rub the wrong way.
You hit the nail on the head. We see Shady Sands in Fallout 1, in Fallout 2 it's a bustling city (by the wastelands standards). Every Fallout game is about civilization continuing in one way or the other (with Fallout 1 being arguably the bleakest, since you get kicked out of the civilization you save). In Fallout 2 you get the GECK to help Arroyo, you also see civilizations trying hard to thrive in the wasteland, from the NCR, San Francisco, Vault City, etc. Some of these places to things very differently than others. But it's still all an attempt that we get to see and guide. Fallout 3 has us helping the Brotherhood purify water in DC, fallout 4 has the minutemen and literally has the player build many settlements, seemingly leaning into the "rebuild" angle of the games.
So why is it surprising that people expected more than just a collapse of everything they've seen leading up to it?
Honestly I even like the show. But I don't know what they were thinking with a lot of this.
Obviously I can only speak for myself and maybe my memories of the games isn't perfect, it's just how I feel about it.
Yeah, I kind of think of it a bit like how the Star Wars sequels almost immediately nuked the New Republic. I do think there just could have been a better way of doing it myself, but I'm not that deeply familiar with the show.
From a grander view, I'd say to keep a 'wasteland' theme going, you'd start Lucy and Vault 33 in some place that hasn't quite been touched by civilization. Heck, could even have her explore Appalachia seeing as it'd be over a hundred years from Fallout 76. Threats can still be biting at the heels at the places rebuilding. Like the frontiers of the NCR are getting hit with tactical nukes, but not the capital.
For me it’s not just an issue with them destroying everything, but the fact that they didn’t replace what they destroyed with something new and interesting. If you want to show the NCR and Legion and Vegas all collapsing that’s fine by me, but give us some new factions and power players to fill the void and explain what’s happened. A lot of the scenes are basically a tour of game locations that serve no purpose other than to show that they built a set of the location. Remember this place from the game? Everyone is dead there now. End scene.
The actual new storylines they introduced about Hank and Vault-Tec’s schemes are interesting and keeping me watching the show, but most of the New Vegas stuff so far is just kinda bland and empty
Look, it's a great show. I do enjoy it, and i'm not one of those people moaning about Dinky facing the wrong way or the strip being a mile long. This kind of nitpicky shit is the low hanging fruit people like Nolan dismiss, and rightfully so.
But i do wish they'd simply picked an ending rather than none of them mattering and any can apply cos they've simply wiped all the factions out. It renders all of our PC's actions pointless, whatever we picked.
I think they overestimated the backlash if they canonized an ending, I genuinely don't think many people would complain if the House ending was made canon.
I hated House and I wouldn't have cared if his was the canon ending. The first thing the show did to lose me in any way was the fate of the NCR. We could have even had an interesting story around the decline of the NCR, instead we got what we saw...
It is what it is, and I also still like the show. But I don't think I'm required to like very decision they make.
I hate House, but for this narrative I felt that his ending would have been the most narratively interesting. Oh Mr plans everything decades in advance, you didn't see your major trade partner imploding coming did you, now you get to try and make Vegas work without your economic engine being available.
I almost wish they would say "we have picked an ending. But we are not going to tell you which one, see if you can figure it out"
Personally I believe that the NCR is the most "good" ending, but House definitely leaves the most narrative room for if you want to set more stories there.
I bet my left nut that the NCR will make a big comeback in the end
Think about it, they're the only faction that's being portraied as completely good, they will be the heroes of the story and are now in their "underdog" stage
And i'm not even a fan of the NCR that's just how writing works
Also would be 100% in line with New Vegas, where we’re told NV isn’t getting the best units and supplies: those are getting allocated to guard the assets of the Brahmin Barons.
As someone who has played New Vegas more times than I can count, I really appreciate they picked up the obscure ending I found on my last play through.
I went complete murder hobo mode and killed everybody in sight, did the DlC and than got bored and left the game unfinished.
10/10 I always thought I was imagining it, but the empty Strip down to the headshotted securatron by a anti materiel rifle at the gate sealed the deal for me.
Fucking madness, drives me nuts how much I’ve been downvoted for praising the casting, actors, and writers nailing the vibe but saying I’m not happy how they decided to turn an organized nation into a ragtag group of people hanging out at Griffith Observatory.
And I called it that they’d be shitting all over new Vegas because god forbid anything ever grows or develops in this universe.
Fallout 1 -> 2 -> New Vegas had a logical growth of civilization after the war. Hell by new Vegas folks were complaining that the wastelander days were all but over in California that’s why they moved east. The only ending where new Vegas should be a mess is if the legion won.
It’s insane to toss that aside because you want a trashy aesthetic, but that’s Master Todd’s vision
Well no if you believe Chief Hanlon an NCR victory is worse than them losing as it spur them to expand ever onward instead of focusing on internal issues that will actually kill them, but even then at least they'd be fucking following plot threads that had been set down in the games.
But that doesn't mean I'm not allowed an opinion. The show has wiped out most of the factions that I loved in new Vegas. That has annoyed me, not only that but the story it wants to tell better be worth it in the end.
If you're going to wipe out most of the NCR, Decimate the king's, take a piss on the khan's then you better have something at the end to show for it .
That's what I'm waiting for. I'm injecting copious amounts of copium into my veins and trusting in the writers to make all of this worthwhile in the end.
It'll only be a fools errand if they don't stick the landing. They better have something fucking good at the end of this. It better be well thought out and blow my mind, because if it doesn't, you've just used the new Vegas factions as set dressing for your story and that ain't cool.
Same way I feel. For example, ending of episode 3 when ghoul blows the legion camp was extremely poignant. Made up for the frankly goofy portrayal of the legion earlier.
My issue is the lack of sincerity and subtlety in modern media adaptations. For example, yes raiders and warlords cosplaying as Romans in a post apocalyptic wasteland is absurd, I don't need to be reminded that. Almost every thing has to absurd or comic in some way. Fallout for me is deeply tragic setting with ironic humour to lighten the darkness and not a theatre of absurd.
I like the show, it really has moments of genius. The pre war deathclaw military field testing in Alaska? Genius. But these have been few imo. I hope the show would pick a direction to focus on rather than the "eternal wasteland" trope.
Unfortunately, that's what Bethesda is doing to the franchise.
Fallout 4 is set in 2287, so 210 years since the great war. I cannot believe some kind of political power never rose during all those years.
Bethesda rather focuses on the "apocalyptic" aspect than the "post" one.
It feels like to me they wanted to put everything in the show from the game as a fanservice, but since they don't want to pick a canon ending everything has to be gone and destroyed.
I don't know if it will go anywhere like this. Everything we get is just fanservice, which works great for a while, but it can get boring later.
Probably would have been better to either pick a canon ending like NCR or House or maybe even Yes Man and explain how are they running the Strip still. Seeing it destroyed feels wrong, since the securotrons were upgraded (they shown that) and I feel like people would not let the Strip fall.
Ending or not, it still irks me the fact that there's NO thriving civilisation left. None. Nada. Not even Primm or Goodsprings has any people left. (Not counting Novac bc they showed what happened, even if honestly I would've found It more believable It would have to do something with the ghouls or supermutants close to it)
It was something charming from the NV games to see some settlements still exist, and to see it all just go poof, especialy considering how Bethesda seems to have always liked better to depict EVERYTHING as just... Ruins, no lasting rebuilding 200 years later after the apocalypse.
Im just tired of seeing people use "war never changes" as an excuse to why there can't be any semblance of civilization. That quote only means there will always be conflict, no matter the era. It doesn't mean civilization cant exist because we blow each other up.
Arguably the fact that war never changes, and yet civilization has always been apart of human culture for hundreds of thousands of years is a testament to the fact that people will always rebuild, regardless of the knowledge that it will one day be torn down.
I love the show, it's so cool seeing fallout on mainstream TV. But what I really don't understand why you think that Nolan was vindicated? Are fans not allowed to form their own opinions or critique about his creation? Are we just told to shut up and accept what's being given to us?
The showrunners CHOSE to set his show in a very, very beloved and established part of the fallout universe. They chose to set in California and Nevada, in New Vegas and Boneyard. No one forced them.
He says pleasing fans is a fool's errand and then drops a shit ton of fan service anyway. It's like telling fans that they know and care about the setting and fans. You really don't expect me to believe that after doing all that, any inconsistencies in lore and the rather "unique" creative decisions to put it mildly, are not subject to scrutiny? Destroying every location we come across in the games just to mould the setting to their vision of an eternal wasteland is a rather unpopular choice unless they have a good payoff for it.
Look I get it. It's an RPG. The whole point is that the players get to see their vision. Pleasing every fan was impossible from the get go. But that doesn't mean fan criticism is invalid or just the noise of some annoying basement dwellers. Criticizing inconsistencies in a fictional franchise isn’t treating it being salty. It's s basic narrative evaluation. Fallout has an established canon and internal rules, and adaptations are reasonably judged on how well they respect or justify changes to those rules
I know criticism of the show is a sin in this sub. But sometimes, just sometimes we deserve better than "yeah palpatine somehow returned, whatcha gonna do 'bout it?"
His statement is partly accurate, trying to please everyone is a fool's errand; but it doesn't change that a lot of the decisions made in the production of this show violate established canon and require substantial suspension of disbelief to accept.
Most of Fallout's lore already requires at least a bit of suspension of disbelief to enjoy, but within itself it was at least mostly consistent. Things that were inconsistent usually had a gameplay reason for it, like with the way energy weapon ammo works in the FPSRPG Fallout games versus how it worked in the old isometric games.
Things they did for the Fallout TV show just make it require you to turn your critical thinking skills completely off far too often, and aren't even consistent within the world created by the show itself.
Ghouls requiring a certain drug to stay sane/not go feral? Totally unnecessary. Going feral can just happen at any time because of the brain rot, and staying sane for decades or more happens several times in established canon - there are dozens of named pre-war ghouls.
Dinky the Dinosaur facing the wrong way at Novac? That breaks more than just lore - it's utter nonsense. Dinky is a billboard. He's supposed to face the highway. They faced him away from the highway because they wanted Lucy to shoot the rope from his mouth. It would have made more sense to put the gallows out on the highway if they wanted to do that - they're not usually something you build in town square anyways.
Don't even get me started on the dumbassery they've done to power armor. Weld flaw? iron man thrusters? None of that is necessary. All of those scenes could have functioned without the arbitrary changes they made. Jetpacks exist in fallout lore for the flight. The Ghoul could have loaded pulse slugs into his shotgun to deal with the power armored pricks.
Arbitrary changes that are inconsistent with the narrative weaken the overall product. Fallout show got hyped because it's fallout, and people that dare criticize it are being ostracized as 'not true fans' (granted some are also saying people who follow the show are 'not true fans'), but the truth is the Fallout TV show is a mediocre product. C+/B- effort at absolute best.
It didn't bother me until the strip, and I'm not crazy mad or anything, It's just disappointing. We've been waiting for them to get to the strip for like 2 years. When playing new Vegas it's the focal point of the entire map, you always see it in the distance, slowly making your way closer and closer. Then they arrive and BAM. It's gone. At least we finally see a deathclaw in all its glory.
I'm not sure if it's just a visual choice but many of the lights functioning seems to indicate to me that something's still working. Might be cope though
The buildings are completely intact, Coop barely notices anything is wrong and the King's wigs are still spotless. I bet it happened just after Hank got there
We see in the same episode a deathclaw in alaska, im no lore expert but ive played a few games. For me it indicates that deathclaws are US made war machines and i also noticed the wigs and thought it cant be long. So yeah reading your comment had me thinking hank released it to have a secure area around his base when he arrived. I mean the vial the ghoul dropped in thr episode before was used when he took ella back to the NCR, right ? so im hopefull they are actually leaving these small details in for reasons and not just production mistakes.
I'd say it's recent, with the ghoul saying that they should go to freeside and ask what's going on, as if the idea of Vegas being abandoned is unthinkable. I still think that from the trailer this is a "oh shit deathclaw, let's fucking hide" rather than the strip being abandoned
The show’s great but I hate how everything so far has been destroyed. Also, making all of the kings feral and killing them off as a joke put a bad taste in my mouth
It pissed me off a lot. I actually feel really upset they don’t respect a single action or outcome the player has in the game. The show writing feels lazy and extremely frustrating because they do not feel like adding on to pre-established lore and instead simply destroy all of it
Seeing so many people give up on the show and trash it as “destroying Fallout lore” before Season 2 is even half over, Nolan was completely vindicated saying this.
"I destroyed the lore and they complained, so obviously I was justified in saying they just can't be pleased."
What is with this absurd idea that you’re allowed to say good things about a show before it’s finished but you’re not allowed to say anything negative?
If they don’t want anyone to talk about it until it’s finished they should release it all at once and stop encouraging people to talk about it online.
Seriously anyone who subscribes to OPs thought process is just a hypocrite.
Bethesda isn't even that good of a company. They re introduced paid mods(back when Steam failed to implement them, a few years later Bethesda re introduced the concept of paid mods, and it's just as bad), they scammed so many people with Fallout 76, and especially the merch fiasco. Even latest game, Starfield, finally got panned by even most Bethesda fans for being bad.
So I don't get why Bethesda still has so many fans feverishly defending them at every second.
Decides pleasing fans is impossible -> makes no attempt to please fans and stick to the lore -> "See, I was right all along! The fans are terrible! There's just no pleasing them!"
Some people also need to learn how to accept valid criticism with grace instead of just going “NUH UH, STOOPID!” It’s a fun show, but you got to admit that the picture it’s trying to paint about the current state of the wasteland is taking some….interesting creative liberties so far. Not anything to lose sleep over tbh, but not exactly articulated well. Like I’m still not sure why they renamed the East Coast Brotherhood “The Commonwealth chapter” and unless the recent episode addresses that then idk.
What a fucking cop out. You could literally apply this to any criticism of the show to deflect and dumbasses would lap it up like it's the latest in pop philosophy. No reasonable person is asking you to please everyone, they're asking you to respect the damn story that came before. And I don't think completely decimating every single inch of the existing setting, undoing all of the hard work that went into it, is particularly respectful. I'll stick around and wait to pass judgement when I see the ending, but I'm not hopeful.
My main gripes with the show are as follows, and are pretty much all just dumb little lore discrepancy nitpicks, some of which have rather easy answers (if we ever get them):
The Brotherhood of Steel chapter led by Quintus is full of demented frat bros pretending to be soldiers, who barely even understand the tech they use, rather than the genuinely militaristic chapters we're familiar with, who make understanding advanced tech one of their top priorities up there with hoarding it. I can easily chalk this up to the chapter being led poorly by an incompetent, power-hungry fool who's gone off the deep end in his incredibly overt religious zealotry, rather than the quasi-religious-at-worst guys we know and love. Quintus honestly reminds me of a dumbed-down, discount version of Elijah.
Several Brotherhood chapters in the west somehow having Prydwen-level airships at their disposal (and functioning, pristine suits of T-60c power armor), despite their major decline in the lore (a consequence of their conflict with the NCR and the West Coast Brotherhood willfully failing to adapt) meaning they shouldn't have nearly the level of resources to make such things -- it took the East Coast BOS around six years to make the Prydwen; two alone just to design the thing, and four more to scrap their surrounding salvage in the Capital Wasteland/remains of the Adams Airforce Base to make and construct the parts. I wonder if the Brotherhood managed to make more following the events of Fallout 4 and sent them westward as a gift...
The West Coast Brotherhood chapters having enough numbers in their ranks to actually pose a massive threat to the regions they enter, despite their isolationist policies and decline resulting from their crippling adherence to dogma; the East Coast under Lyons and Maxson were unique in that regard due to the progressively open recruitment ideals Lyons managed to make, and ultimately impart on Arthur Maxson, despite Maxson's other regressions.
Finally, my main gripe not concerning the BOS is the reveal that New Vegas seems completely dead, at the expense of the game. It just makes me feel what we can accomplish in New Vegas (the game) is ultimately meaningless, no matter what we do, or how much we ever chose to invest in its outcomes. I also don't like Shady Sands getting nuked, the 'who started the Great War' question apparently getting a defining answer, and a few other equally minor things, but that's just me.
Other than that? The show is an 8/10 at worst. We don't deserve an adaptation as good as this one, and we got it anyway. I love it!
I don't understand why the show runners and you people want to have the cake and eat it too though. They talk about not feeling obligated to please fans in some like, high minded artistic way, and complain about nitpicky fans, but then they made the show Fallout New Vegas 2 and made half of it attempted fanservice specifically for New Vegas fans.
Lucy's dad didn't haaaaaaave to go to Vegas, Jonathan Nolan and Bethesda didn't haaaaaaaave to set the show in a scenario they have no attachment to, but they did and now they have to be accountable when they contradict New Vegas or follow up something in it a dumb way, in the same way that Season 2 of a show that was good can't just ignore half the shit it told you in Season 1.
Literally, this is the entire point the dunderheads on these threads seem to not be able to wrap their 60 IQ points around
If you wanted a blank slate go to a new location. What’s the point in fan service “continuation” of new vegas when you obliterate every memory of the game?
It’s equivalent to doing a video game adaptation of mass effect and wiping out every single species in favour of completely unseen new alien races. Wtf would be the point in calling it mass effect?
Obviously there's the fan service, but I think they're just doing the same dumb shit so many big media franchises have tripped over in the last 20 years, and I'm so tired of it. "Oh you like this story? Well, now this new story is BIGGER and MORE. All the other stories don't matter anymore because this story is the one we're doing at the moment."
Why does Lucy's dad have to be some evil overlord with the power to nuke towns and a plan to control the world. Why does The Ghoul have to have been some pre-war big shot uncovering a huge conspiracy which alters everything? In New Vegas, which they clearly recognise as a well-loved and well-crafted tale, you play an unlucky courier. Just a dude.
Fallout was about what happens when the world ends. What do all these people do, with different factions, resources and motivations. There were endless possibilities. Fallout the TV show is about beating the big bad guy. I get that season 2 is not over yet but I can already tell you the ending. "OMG, look at how good next season is going to be"
Why are so many people so quick to defend the showrunners? It's absolutely inexcusable to handle established lore and factions the way the show did. I'm personally having fun watching the show as its own thing but discrediting genuine complaints saying it's from butthurt fans is disappointing to see
They don't want arguments. They just want us to stomach everything without complaints. It's all black and white. I also watch the show and still hoping they deliver something that's worth making everything in the Mojave as dead as a radroach's carcass.
If Ella Purnell personally came to every Fallout fans’ house, rubbed their belly and called them a good boy there would still be people finding something to complain about
None of my complaints have anything to do with Ella though, or the cast at all tbh. I'm just not a fan of the way they did the NCR dirty. I haven't even got to anything that has happened with NV yet, but I was never a fan of House anyway.
One of my top five games of all time, debating for fifteen years on what would be the true ending, and then showing nothing mattered. Gee guess I can't be a bit annoyed at that, I've been holding onto the idea they will still pick an ending but after seeing Vegas and the kings its really looking dire, and the game world I fell in love with being destroyed is not a good sign. Especially for the message New Vegas had for this series.
"It's said war - war never changes. Men do, through the roads they walk. And this road... has reached its end."
The courier was supposed to bring about a new world, no matter what they chose. But from the looks of it, nothing we chose mattered. Hard to be happy knowing that.
I really think Bethesda is trying to do a soft reboot of the franchise and are killing off the main factions that are trying to bring back society as they go against the perpetual apocalypse their Fallout games stories and game mechanics heavily push and rely on.
All 3 of their games take place on the east coast and none of them feature a faction like the NCR the only big factions their games have are the BoS and Enclave. The other factions are either raiders or small local groups that don't have an affect on the world as a whole.
This would align with their new game design model which went from putting the player in a a living breathing world with other things going on in the background regardless of what you do into making the player character the center of the universe with absolutely nothing going on unless the player interacts with something.
This is why all of their games after Skyrim are so boring and so empty and why Fallout 4 relies so heavily on the settlement system. Remove the settlement system and Fallout 4's map is just empty you have Diamond City and the one ghoul led town and that's basically it. Nothing else gets built unless the player builds it there is no giant faction trying to do good or rebuild because that's the players job.
Having a faction like the NCR goes against their game design model that all their new games have so they are getting rid of the factions doing what they think the player should be doing.
They're setting up for their San Francisco-based Fallout 5 - they need to get rid of the isolationist-style original BOS chapters so they can import the FO4 BOS. They need to get rid of the NCR because they represent stability in the region and that's boring (in their view.) They need get rid of Ceasars Legion for the same reason. So on and so forth.
They also needed to get rid of the NCR because in prior to Bethesda Fallout, the NCR had beat the BoS in the Brotherhood War to the point that they were in hiding and were no longer a "player" in New California. The NCR didn't even care at them any longer and focused their resources on the Legion war.
Bethesda loves the BoS. It's their poster child faction. Of course they needed some reason to have them be the big faction in their show. In order to do that, they needed the NCR gone.
The show is alright. I just wish they would have went with a more interesting approach than "every faction and major location is is done for and there's nothing in their stead"
The Show completely invalidated the games (surprise! every settlement and faction is dead or dieing) and it does fuck with the lore. Which is on brand for Bethesda who have gone on record saying they don't give a fuck about it and Change shit on a whim.
Hell Bethesda can and will ruin ten year old games for a quick buck. Remember this is the same company that can't tell the difference between canvas and nylon.
You can’t please everybody but yes you should please fans. Just don’t go with legit the worst possible ways to go about some things and you’ll be fine.
I duno, because the show ignores and retcons basic lore from the games. Even with Shady Sands gone (which for some weird reason has been retconned int being at the Boneyard when it wasn't), the NCR spans still spans from Oregon to Baja and is an industrialized nation, getting rid of one city is not enough. The Brotherhood of Steel has been driven out of NCR territory with only a couple of isolated small chapters in the Mojave and Baja, therefore should have no force projection in the middle of NCR territory. The BoS in the show no longer preserves and protects old world tech and instead act like a bunch of drunk frat boys with no military bearing (even though that is a big part of their culture).
While I like the serie, I can only interrogate myself as to why is this set in new vegas? They didn't want to do anything with the legion, the RNC, and now new vegas is destroyed?
Why is this set in new vegas? If not to capitalise on the hardcore fan of the games that would come to see the show? If they didn't want to appeal to fans, they could have perfectly continued with new locations, the first season did well, odds are the second would have too even if they didn't hype new vegas.
I like the show but this take sounds idiotic.
Personally I would have liked it more if they created their own story based on the lore. There are many vaults mentioned in the game, but not shown. They have a great base with Lucy and the others. They could have easily put them elsewhere instead of using a beloved game/ game location. I adore the series but still, I would have preferred a different approach.
This is a strawman argument that rids them of any responsibility. Yes, some fans would be annoyed no matter what - but the actual criticism is poor writing and a plot line that, so far, literally cannot work with any of the outcomes/endings from FNV. The scenes with the legion were literally laughable, it felt like a parody or a sketch.
I felt that in season 1, and a bit so far in 2, that the writers have to have the setting look the same as it did in the earlier games/start of the modern games, meaning they’ve had to undo a lot of the progress of the setting. To keep it looking on-brand, they’ve had to get rid of the NCR for instance. It’s my main issue with the show.
I do enjoy The Ghoul and Lucy as characters but the world just feels like a caricature of the setting.
Nah, being a Bethesda fan is a fool’s errand. 15 years since Skyrim’s release, 10 years since Fallout 4’s. People genuinely have kids that were born when Skyrim came out and those kids are now in Highschool, and people had theirs around Fallout 4’s release and they’re getting there too. Fans are the only reason these companies make money consistently, otherwise they end up like Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age Veilguard, Assassin’s Creed Shadows, even Fallout 76 since that has lasting damage on the franchise. At least the majority of people don’t support Starfield, “Bethesda’s big third franchise”, as they’re not as stupid as Bethesda thinks they are
I'm not even watching the series, but let me say one thing. Any creative who says they will make fans angry does not excuse them if they did a shit job. You can't just say, "Well, it might be considered bad." and then call it vindication when people say it's bad.
There's a difference between "fans being salty that their favourite ending isn't canon" and "writers shitting all over established lore like it doesn't matter". I really hope they don't turn House into some stereotypical evil genius, because right now I really don't like what I'm seeing of him. He may not have been a "good" character, but he wasn't cartoonishy evil like he's been presented as thus far. Shady Sands was established as a beacon of civilisation in the wastes, and they just had Hank nuke it so they could wipe the slate clean and do their own thing. I really don't like it when writers do that.
I grew up playing fallout, played it all my life. It's my favorite fictional universe, and I love the show. It's not perfectly lore accurate, but it's not like the Halo tv show. I've seen more people around my town wearing fallout merch than I ever have since it came out.
Pretty much my thoughts here. Halo has been my favorite franchise since I was introduced to it, and seeing the show further decimate hope for the future, I can confidently say that it really can be much worse than some people here think.
I understand the complaints that people have, but Fallout has had a much more faithful and cared for show when compared to many other video game adaptations. I've been thoroughly enjoying it, even though some parts aren't exactly the way I would've wished them to be.
My boy Walton Goggins casually just fucking slaying his role. As always. He's never missed the mark, and as far as I've seen he doesnt even play Fallout, but he gives us a Ghoul the games just won't be able to match. "Oh yeah he's carrying the show" blah blah yeah well that's called good at his job. I'm glad to see him shine for longer than the likes of Predators, or Django Unchained, because he was a menace in both of those and I've been itching to see him main that archetype.
Edit: I woke up to a lot of notifications lmao no I havent watched his shows, I stopped watching television in like 2012 so I'll need to follow some of your links, thank you for that:)
He once said in an interview he felt that his character had to seem like "he was unencumbered by the weight of the harshness of the wasteland".
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I bet he def has the Strong Back perk.
Bro just isn't grabbing random junk items.
Blasphemy! One must grab every piece of junk, and if you get over-encumbered, then comes the difficult task of triaging the junk to decide which one you really need to take.
sigh gotta get rid of 2lb more....do I really need this old newspaper? I'll chuck it.
At settlement, crafting What am I missing? 1 Paper? ......shit.
I left my heart at the Sierra Madre. But not a single fucking gold bar.
He doesn’t play Fallout, he lives it.
-gasp-
Is he the real John Fallout afterall???
He has mentioned his son playing it. I feel like most of the core cast have at least watched gameplay even if they didn't play themselves.
The thing I have learned with entertainment is that you don't need to be a loremaster or a fan from the beginning to push the work forward, you just need to significantly care. If you care about telling a good story you can turn anything great and if you don't care, you could have been there from the beginning and send it to the trash.
He’s a great actor, I love him in every role he plays. He was great in Righteous Gemstones as Uncle Baby Billy. And then he was hilarious in Vice Principals, a real bastard in Django, and so much more I’m sure I’m forgetting. I love the contrast of his character as a pre-apocalypse actor/spy and the jaded bastard of a ghoul he is now. The man has depth.
Hateful 8 is another movie he is great in
His best role of all time is on Sons of Anarchy
Boyd Crowder in Justified. Teeth that glow in the dark. The show is definitely cheesy at times, but Goggins and Olyphant are great and play off each other very well.
He was great in that one scene of White Lotus where he just lets the other guy talk. Never have I related more to a silent character
Have you watched Justified?
I have not. I'm not much for television. I love your username.
Oh my goodness. You have to watch Justified ASAP.
If you think you love Walton Goggins now...just wait.
And thanks!
(Also I know you said you aren't much for TV but he stars in two comedies that are well worth it: Vice Principals and Righteous Gemstones. Walton Goggins will never let you down)
If he's doing Fallout for us I oughtta try some more of his works.
He was masterful in justified.
Vice principles in particular is low key incredible. And he fucking—I mean he’s brilliant in it
my view of WG completely changed cause of this show. I hated him in the shield, where he played an assholr cop. watching VP, I realized that he is an incredible actor with huge range. I haven't seen a better comedy since...
While people are suggesting things, might I rec The Righteous Gemstones. He takes a few episodes to show up but tie whole cast is great. A dramedy about a mega church running family lead by John Goodman.
Has the perk of being a TV show you will know whether you are in-or not-in the first scene.
Baby Billy's Bible Bonkers. I don't onow why that makes me laugh so much. His entire character is great.
You'll get hooked on Justified. You'll likely marathon it. Timothy Olyphant and Walton Goggins... It's a pretty good shew.
Boyd Crowder is top 3 all times tv characters ever. He's just petfect
Because those dear Walts and gentle Goggins, will never, ever let you down
We dug coal together.
crazy how Boyd Crowder got his whole ack together and became a western movie star
You know what destroys "Fallout Lore" - waiting over a decade to release a new single player campaign
I will agree with this. Also they kinda broke Fallout 4 again with the anniversary update. I do wish they'd focus on getting out a new game and stop fucking up the old ones. At least the show is giving us something new and in a future timeline.
At least the modding community is still strong, I guess.
The new Upscaling and Frame Gen mods are making this game play the best it's ever has on my PC. Solid 120FPS at all times.
I thought Settler Built Settlements would be fun, but it's kind of a risk to game integrity and still just the guy in overalls bumping into shit and the old lady bugging me for drugs.
You want
SomeSim Settlements 2; phenomenal settlement building mechanics and a quest line that's at least as well-written as the main story, maybe better.Fallout and TES both been waiting over a decade. Bethesda moves at a snails pace
Does anyone know an actual reason they’re so slow at development compared to other studios of similar size with similar funding?
They took a long ass break from their usual TES>Fallout>TES rotation to develop a whole new ip in a new universe with new updates to their game engine and were banking on people keeping busy with that and the re-releases of their old games. Not to mention the ridiculous amount of resources they must be allocating to continuously update and push their microtransaction store on us while simultaneously breaking their old games that worked fine before.
Starfield was intended to be a "forever" game, so they banked on that hard. Unfortunately they fell into the trap of overselling and underdelivering because they tried for far too much scope. And with abandoning support early, there's no current drip feed of Bethesda releases. I just hope they've learnt what didn't work and are avoiding doing the same with TES/Fallout
If you closer to Starfield you definitely can see it's very similar to Skyrim
1) you are the "chosen one" 2) explore a dungeon, at the end you find some wierd power ( similar to shouts in Skyrim)
Don't even have to look closely, they called it Starborn
I know I’m going to be downvoted to oblivion (hehe) by saying this, but I didn’t enjoy Skyrim all that much.
Skyrim gets a pass for its many shortcomings because it's still interesting to go out and explore the map. You organically run into weird and interesting little stories like the woman who is pretending to be a little old herb lady but has a secret murder dungeon under her hut.
Finding a dead mage on the ground surrounded by scorch marks and a journal going on about how they are so close to figuring out a new spell.
Or you find a lighthouse filled with dead bodies and read the journal of a woman who documents that her children are slowly going missing and if you explore further you find that the Falmer had tunnelled into the cellar of the lighthouse and were responsible for the tragedy.
Starfield had pretty much none of that, it was built with the idea that randomly generated planets were inherently interesting, with the same few locations copy and pasted between them. There's nothing worth discovering by playing it, I can think of hundreds of cool little self-contained stories I have found while randomly exploring the map in Fallout games, Oblivion, Skyrim etc. but Starfield only has its standard quests that offer any sort of story and those are painfully bad.
Yeah strange that Bethesda, a company whose games are KNOWN and lauded for their environmental storytelling and explorable maps, sold Starfield on the premise of randomly generated planets. Like, what’s the point of exploring if there’s nothing of interest to find?
Skyrim and Fallout 4 both suffered from the same "you're the king of everything but can't make any meaningful decisions" style gameplay. You show up, do a few quests, you're suddenly in charge of whatever that faction is but nothing actually changes.
You become the leader of the faction, and you're rewarded with fetch quests.
“So you’re telling me that I’m essentially a Demi-god who has control over most of the continent… and you want me to kill 3 bandits for you?”
No wonder the old leader wanted to retire
at least fallout 4 does not let you to lead all 4 factions simultanously. You can only lead at max 2 if you go with institute and only one if you go with other faction. From TES it's actuallly went like that because it's always been that way from Morrowind where your chosen one got unlimited freedom to join any faction and even rose rank until you became the leader but yeah they just forgot to implement how it should impact the main story.
on Fallout at least all the factions on 4 are the main story.
They took a detour and made a couple mid games FO76 and Starfield. Plus the loss of time during the pandemic, and here we are. Game dev takes longer than ever, and Todd refuses to let someone else work on any mainline entries in either series. And MS won't/hasn't let someone else touch the IP to make a NV type game.
Why would GRRM do this?!?
The ASOIAF community is doing fine. We have reached a divine level of anointed enlightenment after realizing Tyrek is a horse
I was going to make a joke about Ermesande Hayford being Catherine the Great.
But I couldn't remember her name, so I typed "Tyrek" into Google and I swear to god, it autocompleted Tyrek is a horse and I just about lost it. I truly thought you were just being cheeky. Thank you for that laugh.
Next you should look up „Tyrion is a time traveling fetus“ we are absolutely fine!
I checked to see how long it was between Fallout 2 and 3 and wow, it was only 10 years. The gap has been longer now, and that one involved cancelled games and studios swapping the rights.
After that long, Fallout 3 really felt like relaunching an abandoned franchise.
It basically was. And Bethesda did a couple of really smart things with how they did it. Some dumb stuff too, but it worked.
Then they spent far too long on Starfield trying to not make it "fallout in space" when letting it be "Fallout in space" would have probably been better than what we got.
It’s crazy they’ve let two seasons of this show go but without a game to release and ride the wave of interest
That's been the biggest surprise for me. I would've bet money that they had a remaster ready to roll for season one. But no, we got some weird shoe horned Walton Goggins in 76 nonsense.
Especially with the series now in new vegas, you’d think Microsoft would be all over that to release a remake of fallout new vegas
What are the details people are upset about?
Mostly that so far every location shown from New Vegas has been destroyed when people wanted to actually see what had happened in the meantime. "It's gone" being the answer to every location is pretty disheartening. I hope we are last get an explanation for it in the next few episodes cause otherwise it feels like they've simply gone out of their way to work New Vegas out of any importance to the franchise going forwards.
Well we found out Hank destroyed shady sands in the end of season 1 so we'll probably find out an explanation in the last episode.
Hank did it again is on my bingo card.
HHHHAAAAAAAAAANNNNNKKK!!
This is more of a show pacing and setting point, but with Shady Sands was destroyed off screen and people were more bothered because of what it meant for the NCR and the world in general, but not because they actually had strong attachment to Shady Sands. We had never seen the version of Shady Sands that gets destroyed, only heard about it.
With New Vegas it's different because they chose to go to the location of the game with the biggest cult following and then have also destroyed that.
When you're basically going on a field trip down memory lane for the game and every single stop is "see that location/faction you loved? It's dead now" then making the audience wait to find out why, and offering little to no reprieve from the "it's dead now" trip. It just sucks more to watch.
Like the New Vegas part so far has been Novac which is abandoned and taken over by the Khans, who are then massacred, followed by the legion, who are massively weakened, to Camp Golf, which is an abandoned ruin, to the NCR, who are dying, to the Kings, who are all ghouls now, to the Strip, which is abandoned and in ruins. They should have let us have some reprieve. Go to a Goodsprings or Primm and just once so far have it not be dead. Changed? Sure, just not dead.
Don't worry, I'm sure these writers will hear you.
Fallout season 3 in DC, with the now massive society built by... The tunnel snakes
Well it's stated that DC is doing great due to the water purifier.
Unfortunately, FO3 was set 25 years before the show, therefore logically, according to many people in this sub, that means Rivet city, megaton, the BoS, underworld, little lamplight, big town and the water purifier MUST be completely wiped out with not a survivor in sight, or actively dying.
After all it's been 25 years, you can't just expect them to start the same, right? The only option is for everyone to die right? It's a post-apocalypse! /S
Well duhh, the water purifier broke down 15 years prior off screen, had to know that was gonna happen /s
And it broke down because some guy who hated his wife blew it up instead of anything coming from the game it's based on.
Nah, they only will treat 1, 2 and New Vegas that way, the east coast will be shiny beacon of civilization.
Nitpick, but we have. It's a major location in Fallout 2.
If the end credits are to be believed, Primm is destroyed too.
When I got to Primm everyone was dead so that checks out actually
Don't forget Camp Mccarran is now a ruined hell-hole littered with dead Legion/NCR and a lot of the Mojave's NCR military's chain of command dead.
If the Legion made it to Mccarran they must have won at the dam, only for Caesar's death to bring them down. Damn, the canon courier was either useless or a real bastard.
I know none of the endings are going to be canon but the Kings being ghouls and House being around (from previews looks like he still may be) would actually leave only one possible ending. You do the House ending and also do a few specific quests for the Kings like driving the NCR out of freeside. That’s the only way to get House to be alive at the end of FNV and also have him not kill the Kings (so they could be ghoulified later).
With how the Ghoul walking right into NCR and Legion camps with impunity, I dare say he’s the ‘Courier’ of this universe, with a neutral-bad karma.
Camp Golf came off as pretty lazy IMO. How does a place abandoned for over a decade look as if it was frozen in time and not looted?
Calling it now. Hank was the one that stole all the oil to force the world to start fighting.
I love the show but that’s my main complaint. “Hey remember this cool ass place from the games, well guess what? We’re heading there next episode! Ah wouldn’t ya know it? Fucking gone and destroyed”
Edit: so for clarification I didn’t mean I think the entire show should just be a walkthrough of fallout 1,2, and NV and I hate it because it’s not. I still love the show. It’s not all or nothing, It just irks me that everything that used to be some form of new society is now just in ruin.
I feel similarly, Bethesda is advising on a season of a show focusing on a game by Obsidian widely regarded by the fans to be the best of the modern titles... and the only modern game not made by Bethesda... and interestingly a choice has been made to wipe it all out, yet Elder Maxon, a Bethesda character from a Bethesda game is confirmed alive and well.
I adore the show, but it is noticeable that the Betheada created lore and characters seem safe, while the Obsidian created lore and characters are not.
Gonna bet some money on seeing Fisto still kicking in Freeside on the next few episodes lol he can surely rival Elder Maxson's status as being 'alive and well'
I wouldn't read too much into it. Bethesda loves wiping out previous game settings, even their own. Like how in Skyrim Vvardenfel had been blown up by the volcano and Cyrodiil had been ravaged by war with many cities burned. Personally I'm half expecting that in TES VI we'll hear that the Thalmor have regrouped and crushed Skyrim
People with the comeback "you just want a TV show that follows the FO1/FO2/FNV story" are just stupid. There's so many potential stories that can be done across California and Nevada. If the show wanted a wasteland feel then it shouldn't have been on the West Coast, put it somewhere in the US we haven't seen before.
The only ones that don't seem to be losing on this series is 3 and 4.
4 is actually being shown in a better light because of the Assault rifle and the T-60.
Yeah, and they're just casually confirming FO4's endings no problem. The Commonwealth chapter this, the Commonwealth chapter that. Elder Maxson won't be happy.
Why is the show totally fine to confirm FO4's endings but not FNV?
I don't understand how that's anyone's takeaway from the last episode. He said they should go to the other side where people are to find out what's going on.
Then at the end of the episode we see exactly why it was destroyed... Am I missing something?
Securitrons, casino gangs, NCR contingent, strong wall defenses, Apocalypse disciples, and other gate mercs, with the gun runners on one side and the van graffs on the other to arm everyone to the teeth... Then there's the hover dam being a strategic asset ensuring that NV stays populated by factions interested in its power output and the prosperity that it brings, which ensures a high population, not to mention the NV vault that can act as a stronghold.
New vegas didn't fall from a deathclaw invasion, it couldn't have, this must have came after. There has to be something else that provoked the fall.
I'm convinced the reason New Vegas is deserted is because somebody set off a dirty bomb. Hence the radiation and The Kings being feral ghouls. So now the whole area is uninhabitable
I'm thinking Lucky 38 reactor failure.
Oh I kinda like that explanation, Mr. House dead or not connected anymore, reactor starts malfunctioning and leaking.
My assumption this season is that they've come to a New Vegas that was devastated by the courier from the game and never came back. Like the legion is fractured, the NCR is nothing and it looks like the strip was destroyed probably because the courier killed house. That's my running theory so far.
Who says that there are any people there though? He also said there should be people in the Strip and look at it. We met the Ghoul in California and it’s pretty clear that it’s been more than a minute since he was last in the New Vegas area.
One of the prominent Freeside factions was already shown to be ferals and now they’re all dead too.
There's a clip from the trailer that shows the main characters walking through freeside, and there's loads of people milling about.
The "next episode" preview seemed to show a lot of people in Freeside, but I guess there's the possibility that it's just a flashback.
Its not a flashback, you literally see Lucy and the Ghoul in Freeside in the preview and in the various trailers released.
Freeside is doing well and it has the most people in any settlement we've seen in the show so far.
It so far feels to me that NV is just a stepping stone towards getting the show set in the Commonwealth
I wish they has just started the show in the Commonwealth then tbh.
I would much prefer wider area of North America be explored than the same locations. I hope they are wrapping stories up from the games to prep for a new game in a larger setting
I wanna see Detroit in a three way struggle between the former big three car manufacturers; the Generals, the Fods, and the Chrystels.
I would have rather they just used the show to explore new areas than exploring the destruction of areas that were interesting in the games.
They’re going to explain it. They just got there in the episode. They explained what happened to Shady Sands eventually. They’ll eventually explain this too
The best part about the wasteland, paradoxically, is the few remaining settlements
For me at least, seeing the strip so empty is a real let down
I certainly am not going to stop watching because of it though
The one place that is untouched by the bombs with a functioning (half) vault next to it, several casinos with canibals and gangsters.
Come on, could have written the Deathclaw reveal literally anywhere else.
The New Vegas sub disliked that, you are now vilified with the New Vegas community.
I mean, people keep saying 'lore' but is that really what upsets them? From what I hear, what's primarily upset them seems to have been things like Shady Sands being nukes, the Strip being destroyed, Novac taken over, etc. And that seems less lore and more like they don't like how the show is handling fairly beloved locations and characters (The King, for example), and that's just kind of a disagreement on the direction of the setting and its story as a whole.
The narrative point of Fallout is about rebuilding and moving forward, so seeing the places that had been rebuilding and moving forward get torn down and destroyed, especially since these locales are things players personally invested themselves into the preservation or destruction is going to rub the wrong way.
You hit the nail on the head. We see Shady Sands in Fallout 1, in Fallout 2 it's a bustling city (by the wastelands standards). Every Fallout game is about civilization continuing in one way or the other (with Fallout 1 being arguably the bleakest, since you get kicked out of the civilization you save). In Fallout 2 you get the GECK to help Arroyo, you also see civilizations trying hard to thrive in the wasteland, from the NCR, San Francisco, Vault City, etc. Some of these places to things very differently than others. But it's still all an attempt that we get to see and guide. Fallout 3 has us helping the Brotherhood purify water in DC, fallout 4 has the minutemen and literally has the player build many settlements, seemingly leaning into the "rebuild" angle of the games.
So why is it surprising that people expected more than just a collapse of everything they've seen leading up to it?
Honestly I even like the show. But I don't know what they were thinking with a lot of this.
Obviously I can only speak for myself and maybe my memories of the games isn't perfect, it's just how I feel about it.
Yeah, I kind of think of it a bit like how the Star Wars sequels almost immediately nuked the New Republic. I do think there just could have been a better way of doing it myself, but I'm not that deeply familiar with the show.
From a grander view, I'd say to keep a 'wasteland' theme going, you'd start Lucy and Vault 33 in some place that hasn't quite been touched by civilization. Heck, could even have her explore Appalachia seeing as it'd be over a hundred years from Fallout 76. Threats can still be biting at the heels at the places rebuilding. Like the frontiers of the NCR are getting hit with tactical nukes, but not the capital.
Maybe set in Chicago, New York, Miami, Dallas, or any number of the locations we've been wanting to learn more about.
For me it’s not just an issue with them destroying everything, but the fact that they didn’t replace what they destroyed with something new and interesting. If you want to show the NCR and Legion and Vegas all collapsing that’s fine by me, but give us some new factions and power players to fill the void and explain what’s happened. A lot of the scenes are basically a tour of game locations that serve no purpose other than to show that they built a set of the location. Remember this place from the game? Everyone is dead there now. End scene.
The actual new storylines they introduced about Hank and Vault-Tec’s schemes are interesting and keeping me watching the show, but most of the New Vegas stuff so far is just kinda bland and empty
Look, it's a great show. I do enjoy it, and i'm not one of those people moaning about Dinky facing the wrong way or the strip being a mile long. This kind of nitpicky shit is the low hanging fruit people like Nolan dismiss, and rightfully so.
But i do wish they'd simply picked an ending rather than none of them mattering and any can apply cos they've simply wiped all the factions out. It renders all of our PC's actions pointless, whatever we picked.
Wiping out the NCR is not nitpicky shit.
I think they overestimated the backlash if they canonized an ending, I genuinely don't think many people would complain if the House ending was made canon.
I hated House and I wouldn't have cared if his was the canon ending. The first thing the show did to lose me in any way was the fate of the NCR. We could have even had an interesting story around the decline of the NCR, instead we got what we saw...
It is what it is, and I also still like the show. But I don't think I'm required to like very decision they make.
I hate House, but for this narrative I felt that his ending would have been the most narratively interesting. Oh Mr plans everything decades in advance, you didn't see your major trade partner imploding coming did you, now you get to try and make Vegas work without your economic engine being available.
I almost wish they would say "we have picked an ending. But we are not going to tell you which one, see if you can figure it out"
Personally I believe that the NCR is the most "good" ending, but House definitely leaves the most narrative room for if you want to set more stories there.
I bet my left nut that the NCR will make a big comeback in the end
Think about it, they're the only faction that's being portraied as completely good, they will be the heroes of the story and are now in their "underdog" stage
And i'm not even a fan of the NCR that's just how writing works
Also would be 100% in line with New Vegas, where we’re told NV isn’t getting the best units and supplies: those are getting allocated to guard the assets of the Brahmin Barons.
The whole “getting rights for ghouls” is what I feel like the NCR will come back. A lot of the NCR ideology is in line with Maximus character arc.
As someone who has played New Vegas more times than I can count, I really appreciate they picked up the obscure ending I found on my last play through.
I went complete murder hobo mode and killed everybody in sight, did the DlC and than got bored and left the game unfinished.
10/10 I always thought I was imagining it, but the empty Strip down to the headshotted securatron by a anti materiel rifle at the gate sealed the deal for me.
So meta!!!
Fucking madness, drives me nuts how much I’ve been downvoted for praising the casting, actors, and writers nailing the vibe but saying I’m not happy how they decided to turn an organized nation into a ragtag group of people hanging out at Griffith Observatory.
And I called it that they’d be shitting all over new Vegas because god forbid anything ever grows or develops in this universe.
Fallout 1 -> 2 -> New Vegas had a logical growth of civilization after the war. Hell by new Vegas folks were complaining that the wastelander days were all but over in California that’s why they moved east. The only ending where new Vegas should be a mess is if the legion won.
It’s insane to toss that aside because you want a trashy aesthetic, but that’s Master Todd’s vision
Well no if you believe Chief Hanlon an NCR victory is worse than them losing as it spur them to expand ever onward instead of focusing on internal issues that will actually kill them, but even then at least they'd be fucking following plot threads that had been set down in the games.
I haven't gave up, I'm still watching
But that doesn't mean I'm not allowed an opinion. The show has wiped out most of the factions that I loved in new Vegas. That has annoyed me, not only that but the story it wants to tell better be worth it in the end.
If you're going to wipe out most of the NCR, Decimate the king's, take a piss on the khan's then you better have something at the end to show for it .
That's what I'm waiting for. I'm injecting copious amounts of copium into my veins and trusting in the writers to make all of this worthwhile in the end.
It'll only be a fools errand if they don't stick the landing. They better have something fucking good at the end of this. It better be well thought out and blow my mind, because if it doesn't, you've just used the new Vegas factions as set dressing for your story and that ain't cool.
I'm waiting
Same way I feel. For example, ending of episode 3 when ghoul blows the legion camp was extremely poignant. Made up for the frankly goofy portrayal of the legion earlier.
My issue is the lack of sincerity and subtlety in modern media adaptations. For example, yes raiders and warlords cosplaying as Romans in a post apocalyptic wasteland is absurd, I don't need to be reminded that. Almost every thing has to absurd or comic in some way. Fallout for me is deeply tragic setting with ironic humour to lighten the darkness and not a theatre of absurd.
I like the show, it really has moments of genius. The pre war deathclaw military field testing in Alaska? Genius. But these have been few imo. I hope the show would pick a direction to focus on rather than the "eternal wasteland" trope.
Unfortunately, that's what Bethesda is doing to the franchise. Fallout 4 is set in 2287, so 210 years since the great war. I cannot believe some kind of political power never rose during all those years. Bethesda rather focuses on the "apocalyptic" aspect than the "post" one.
It feels like to me they wanted to put everything in the show from the game as a fanservice, but since they don't want to pick a canon ending everything has to be gone and destroyed.
I don't know if it will go anywhere like this. Everything we get is just fanservice, which works great for a while, but it can get boring later.
Probably would have been better to either pick a canon ending like NCR or House or maybe even Yes Man and explain how are they running the Strip still. Seeing it destroyed feels wrong, since the securotrons were upgraded (they shown that) and I feel like people would not let the Strip fall.
Ending or not, it still irks me the fact that there's NO thriving civilisation left. None. Nada. Not even Primm or Goodsprings has any people left. (Not counting Novac bc they showed what happened, even if honestly I would've found It more believable It would have to do something with the ghouls or supermutants close to it)
It was something charming from the NV games to see some settlements still exist, and to see it all just go poof, especialy considering how Bethesda seems to have always liked better to depict EVERYTHING as just... Ruins, no lasting rebuilding 200 years later after the apocalypse.
It just stings man
Im just tired of seeing people use "war never changes" as an excuse to why there can't be any semblance of civilization. That quote only means there will always be conflict, no matter the era. It doesn't mean civilization cant exist because we blow each other up.
Arguably the fact that war never changes, and yet civilization has always been apart of human culture for hundreds of thousands of years is a testament to the fact that people will always rebuild, regardless of the knowledge that it will one day be torn down.
I love the show, it's so cool seeing fallout on mainstream TV. But what I really don't understand why you think that Nolan was vindicated? Are fans not allowed to form their own opinions or critique about his creation? Are we just told to shut up and accept what's being given to us?
The showrunners CHOSE to set his show in a very, very beloved and established part of the fallout universe. They chose to set in California and Nevada, in New Vegas and Boneyard. No one forced them.
He says pleasing fans is a fool's errand and then drops a shit ton of fan service anyway. It's like telling fans that they know and care about the setting and fans. You really don't expect me to believe that after doing all that, any inconsistencies in lore and the rather "unique" creative decisions to put it mildly, are not subject to scrutiny? Destroying every location we come across in the games just to mould the setting to their vision of an eternal wasteland is a rather unpopular choice unless they have a good payoff for it.
Look I get it. It's an RPG. The whole point is that the players get to see their vision. Pleasing every fan was impossible from the get go. But that doesn't mean fan criticism is invalid or just the noise of some annoying basement dwellers. Criticizing inconsistencies in a fictional franchise isn’t treating it being salty. It's s basic narrative evaluation. Fallout has an established canon and internal rules, and adaptations are reasonably judged on how well they respect or justify changes to those rules
I know criticism of the show is a sin in this sub. But sometimes, just sometimes we deserve better than "yeah palpatine somehow returned, whatcha gonna do 'bout it?"
Nah, he's not vindicated.
His statement is partly accurate, trying to please everyone is a fool's errand; but it doesn't change that a lot of the decisions made in the production of this show violate established canon and require substantial suspension of disbelief to accept.
Most of Fallout's lore already requires at least a bit of suspension of disbelief to enjoy, but within itself it was at least mostly consistent. Things that were inconsistent usually had a gameplay reason for it, like with the way energy weapon ammo works in the FPSRPG Fallout games versus how it worked in the old isometric games.
Things they did for the Fallout TV show just make it require you to turn your critical thinking skills completely off far too often, and aren't even consistent within the world created by the show itself.
Ghouls requiring a certain drug to stay sane/not go feral? Totally unnecessary. Going feral can just happen at any time because of the brain rot, and staying sane for decades or more happens several times in established canon - there are dozens of named pre-war ghouls.
Dinky the Dinosaur facing the wrong way at Novac? That breaks more than just lore - it's utter nonsense. Dinky is a billboard. He's supposed to face the highway. They faced him away from the highway because they wanted Lucy to shoot the rope from his mouth. It would have made more sense to put the gallows out on the highway if they wanted to do that - they're not usually something you build in town square anyways.
Don't even get me started on the dumbassery they've done to power armor. Weld flaw? iron man thrusters? None of that is necessary. All of those scenes could have functioned without the arbitrary changes they made. Jetpacks exist in fallout lore for the flight. The Ghoul could have loaded pulse slugs into his shotgun to deal with the power armored pricks.
Arbitrary changes that are inconsistent with the narrative weaken the overall product. Fallout show got hyped because it's fallout, and people that dare criticize it are being ostracized as 'not true fans' (granted some are also saying people who follow the show are 'not true fans'), but the truth is the Fallout TV show is a mediocre product. C+/B- effort at absolute best.
not to be that guy but destroying pretty much every former location in the area was surely not going to please a lot of people...
It didn't bother me until the strip, and I'm not crazy mad or anything, It's just disappointing. We've been waiting for them to get to the strip for like 2 years. When playing new Vegas it's the focal point of the entire map, you always see it in the distance, slowly making your way closer and closer. Then they arrive and BAM. It's gone. At least we finally see a deathclaw in all its glory.
I'm not sure if it's just a visual choice but many of the lights functioning seems to indicate to me that something's still working. Might be cope though
Ya I did notice that too, it was either very recent or there's still power coming from somewhere
The buildings are completely intact, Coop barely notices anything is wrong and the King's wigs are still spotless. I bet it happened just after Hank got there
We see in the same episode a deathclaw in alaska, im no lore expert but ive played a few games. For me it indicates that deathclaws are US made war machines and i also noticed the wigs and thought it cant be long. So yeah reading your comment had me thinking hank released it to have a secure area around his base when he arrived. I mean the vial the ghoul dropped in thr episode before was used when he took ella back to the NCR, right ? so im hopefull they are actually leaving these small details in for reasons and not just production mistakes.
It’s been known deathclaws are pre war creations
I'd say it's recent, with the ghoul saying that they should go to freeside and ask what's going on, as if the idea of Vegas being abandoned is unthinkable. I still think that from the trailer this is a "oh shit deathclaw, let's fucking hide" rather than the strip being abandoned
The show’s great but I hate how everything so far has been destroyed. Also, making all of the kings feral and killing them off as a joke put a bad taste in my mouth
It pissed me off a lot. I actually feel really upset they don’t respect a single action or outcome the player has in the game. The show writing feels lazy and extremely frustrating because they do not feel like adding on to pre-established lore and instead simply destroy all of it
"pleasing fans is a fools errand" he says as the show gives us some of the most blatant fan service I've ever seen in a TV show
"I destroyed the lore and they complained, so obviously I was justified in saying they just can't be pleased."
Silly logic.
What is with this absurd idea that you’re allowed to say good things about a show before it’s finished but you’re not allowed to say anything negative?
If they don’t want anyone to talk about it until it’s finished they should release it all at once and stop encouraging people to talk about it online.
Seriously anyone who subscribes to OPs thought process is just a hypocrite.
You must not do anything that may affect the profits of the corporation.
Consume and do not speak!
Redditor effect. Just consume and dont criticize anything
don't forget to protect the billion dollar corpos as they have it so bad.
Bethesda isn't even that good of a company. They re introduced paid mods(back when Steam failed to implement them, a few years later Bethesda re introduced the concept of paid mods, and it's just as bad), they scammed so many people with Fallout 76, and especially the merch fiasco. Even latest game, Starfield, finally got panned by even most Bethesda fans for being bad.
So I don't get why Bethesda still has so many fans feverishly defending them at every second.
Decides pleasing fans is impossible -> makes no attempt to please fans and stick to the lore -> "See, I was right all along! The fans are terrible! There's just no pleasing them!"
Follows the same flawless logic as Paliarugo’s ‘I could write a great story, but you idiots wouldn’t appreciate it.’
Some people also need to learn how to accept valid criticism with grace instead of just going “NUH UH, STOOPID!” It’s a fun show, but you got to admit that the picture it’s trying to paint about the current state of the wasteland is taking some….interesting creative liberties so far. Not anything to lose sleep over tbh, but not exactly articulated well. Like I’m still not sure why they renamed the East Coast Brotherhood “The Commonwealth chapter” and unless the recent episode addresses that then idk.
What a fucking cop out. You could literally apply this to any criticism of the show to deflect and dumbasses would lap it up like it's the latest in pop philosophy. No reasonable person is asking you to please everyone, they're asking you to respect the damn story that came before. And I don't think completely decimating every single inch of the existing setting, undoing all of the hard work that went into it, is particularly respectful. I'll stick around and wait to pass judgement when I see the ending, but I'm not hopeful.
My main gripes with the show are as follows, and are pretty much all just dumb little lore discrepancy nitpicks, some of which have rather easy answers (if we ever get them):
The Brotherhood of Steel chapter led by Quintus is full of demented frat bros pretending to be soldiers, who barely even understand the tech they use, rather than the genuinely militaristic chapters we're familiar with, who make understanding advanced tech one of their top priorities up there with hoarding it. I can easily chalk this up to the chapter being led poorly by an incompetent, power-hungry fool who's gone off the deep end in his incredibly overt religious zealotry, rather than the quasi-religious-at-worst guys we know and love. Quintus honestly reminds me of a dumbed-down, discount version of Elijah.
Several Brotherhood chapters in the west somehow having Prydwen-level airships at their disposal (and functioning, pristine suits of T-60c power armor), despite their major decline in the lore (a consequence of their conflict with the NCR and the West Coast Brotherhood willfully failing to adapt) meaning they shouldn't have nearly the level of resources to make such things -- it took the East Coast BOS around six years to make the Prydwen; two alone just to design the thing, and four more to scrap their surrounding salvage in the Capital Wasteland/remains of the Adams Airforce Base to make and construct the parts. I wonder if the Brotherhood managed to make more following the events of Fallout 4 and sent them westward as a gift...
The West Coast Brotherhood chapters having enough numbers in their ranks to actually pose a massive threat to the regions they enter, despite their isolationist policies and decline resulting from their crippling adherence to dogma; the East Coast under Lyons and Maxson were unique in that regard due to the progressively open recruitment ideals Lyons managed to make, and ultimately impart on Arthur Maxson, despite Maxson's other regressions.
Finally, my main gripe not concerning the BOS is the reveal that New Vegas seems completely dead, at the expense of the game. It just makes me feel what we can accomplish in New Vegas (the game) is ultimately meaningless, no matter what we do, or how much we ever chose to invest in its outcomes. I also don't like Shady Sands getting nuked, the 'who started the Great War' question apparently getting a defining answer, and a few other equally minor things, but that's just me.
Other than that? The show is an 8/10 at worst. We don't deserve an adaptation as good as this one, and we got it anyway. I love it!
I don't understand why the show runners and you people want to have the cake and eat it too though. They talk about not feeling obligated to please fans in some like, high minded artistic way, and complain about nitpicky fans, but then they made the show Fallout New Vegas 2 and made half of it attempted fanservice specifically for New Vegas fans.
Lucy's dad didn't haaaaaaave to go to Vegas, Jonathan Nolan and Bethesda didn't haaaaaaaave to set the show in a scenario they have no attachment to, but they did and now they have to be accountable when they contradict New Vegas or follow up something in it a dumb way, in the same way that Season 2 of a show that was good can't just ignore half the shit it told you in Season 1.
Literally, this is the entire point the dunderheads on these threads seem to not be able to wrap their 60 IQ points around
If you wanted a blank slate go to a new location. What’s the point in fan service “continuation” of new vegas when you obliterate every memory of the game?
It’s equivalent to doing a video game adaptation of mass effect and wiping out every single species in favour of completely unseen new alien races. Wtf would be the point in calling it mass effect?
Obviously there's the fan service, but I think they're just doing the same dumb shit so many big media franchises have tripped over in the last 20 years, and I'm so tired of it. "Oh you like this story? Well, now this new story is BIGGER and MORE. All the other stories don't matter anymore because this story is the one we're doing at the moment."
Why does Lucy's dad have to be some evil overlord with the power to nuke towns and a plan to control the world. Why does The Ghoul have to have been some pre-war big shot uncovering a huge conspiracy which alters everything? In New Vegas, which they clearly recognise as a well-loved and well-crafted tale, you play an unlucky courier. Just a dude.
Fallout was about what happens when the world ends. What do all these people do, with different factions, resources and motivations. There were endless possibilities. Fallout the TV show is about beating the big bad guy. I get that season 2 is not over yet but I can already tell you the ending. "OMG, look at how good next season is going to be"
I've seen just as many posts complaining about people complaining. Just accept that there will be differing opinions.
That's because all television show subreddits are astroturfed to hell.
Nah, that's every subreddit.
oh my god it is so sickening.
I remember checking the subreddits on new years eve.
Obviously most real people were too busy to be on reddit, but the bots were out in force. It was all chat gpt text spunking on episode 3. Bloody hell.
Why are so many people so quick to defend the showrunners? It's absolutely inexcusable to handle established lore and factions the way the show did. I'm personally having fun watching the show as its own thing but discrediting genuine complaints saying it's from butthurt fans is disappointing to see
Shut up and consume product and get excited for next product
They don't want arguments. They just want us to stomach everything without complaints. It's all black and white. I also watch the show and still hoping they deliver something that's worth making everything in the Mojave as dead as a radroach's carcass.
If Ella Purnell personally came to every Fallout fans’ house, rubbed their belly and called them a good boy there would still be people finding something to complain about
I HATE THE SHOW!! (laying on my back, belly up, typing all angry like on my phone)
How do I sign up for that?
Yes hello. I too would like the info. Thanks 🙏 🫡
Sign me up too, will you
Just yell "Okey Dokey!" out your window and she'll appear.
This better not unlock anything in me
I for one would have no complaints with this approach
None of my complaints have anything to do with Ella though, or the cast at all tbh. I'm just not a fan of the way they did the NCR dirty. I haven't even got to anything that has happened with NV yet, but I was never a fan of House anyway.
don’t be threatning be with a good time man
true and all but also everyone would be even happier if that did happen lol
One of my top five games of all time, debating for fifteen years on what would be the true ending, and then showing nothing mattered. Gee guess I can't be a bit annoyed at that, I've been holding onto the idea they will still pick an ending but after seeing Vegas and the kings its really looking dire, and the game world I fell in love with being destroyed is not a good sign. Especially for the message New Vegas had for this series.
"It's said war - war never changes. Men do, through the roads they walk. And this road... has reached its end."
The courier was supposed to bring about a new world, no matter what they chose. But from the looks of it, nothing we chose mattered. Hard to be happy knowing that.
Saying he's vindicated is an interesting take since this could just as easily prove that people were completely right to be worried.
The story progression is painfully slow and not very interesting, as someone who isn’t very familiar with the video game lore.
I really think Bethesda is trying to do a soft reboot of the franchise and are killing off the main factions that are trying to bring back society as they go against the perpetual apocalypse their Fallout games stories and game mechanics heavily push and rely on.
All 3 of their games take place on the east coast and none of them feature a faction like the NCR the only big factions their games have are the BoS and Enclave. The other factions are either raiders or small local groups that don't have an affect on the world as a whole.
This would align with their new game design model which went from putting the player in a a living breathing world with other things going on in the background regardless of what you do into making the player character the center of the universe with absolutely nothing going on unless the player interacts with something.
This is why all of their games after Skyrim are so boring and so empty and why Fallout 4 relies so heavily on the settlement system. Remove the settlement system and Fallout 4's map is just empty you have Diamond City and the one ghoul led town and that's basically it. Nothing else gets built unless the player builds it there is no giant faction trying to do good or rebuild because that's the players job.
Having a faction like the NCR goes against their game design model that all their new games have so they are getting rid of the factions doing what they think the player should be doing.
They're setting up for their San Francisco-based Fallout 5 - they need to get rid of the isolationist-style original BOS chapters so they can import the FO4 BOS. They need to get rid of the NCR because they represent stability in the region and that's boring (in their view.) They need get rid of Ceasars Legion for the same reason. So on and so forth.
They also needed to get rid of the NCR because in prior to Bethesda Fallout, the NCR had beat the BoS in the Brotherhood War to the point that they were in hiding and were no longer a "player" in New California. The NCR didn't even care at them any longer and focused their resources on the Legion war.
Bethesda loves the BoS. It's their poster child faction. Of course they needed some reason to have them be the big faction in their show. In order to do that, they needed the NCR gone.
GOT directors said the same thing and there were people who defended the show until the end. Some people just like slop 🤷
We all know what happened to witcher.
The show is alright. I just wish they would have went with a more interesting approach than "every faction and major location is is done for and there's nothing in their stead"
The Show completely invalidated the games (surprise! every settlement and faction is dead or dieing) and it does fuck with the lore. Which is on brand for Bethesda who have gone on record saying they don't give a fuck about it and Change shit on a whim.
Hell Bethesda can and will ruin ten year old games for a quick buck. Remember this is the same company that can't tell the difference between canvas and nylon.
You can’t please everybody but yes you should please fans. Just don’t go with legit the worst possible ways to go about some things and you’ll be fine.
Nolan and Joy completely drove Westwood into the ground so I don’t think he’s earned the benefit of the doubt.
I duno, because the show ignores and retcons basic lore from the games. Even with Shady Sands gone (which for some weird reason has been retconned int being at the Boneyard when it wasn't), the NCR spans still spans from Oregon to Baja and is an industrialized nation, getting rid of one city is not enough. The Brotherhood of Steel has been driven out of NCR territory with only a couple of isolated small chapters in the Mojave and Baja, therefore should have no force projection in the middle of NCR territory. The BoS in the show no longer preserves and protects old world tech and instead act like a bunch of drunk frat boys with no military bearing (even though that is a big part of their culture).
While I like the serie, I can only interrogate myself as to why is this set in new vegas? They didn't want to do anything with the legion, the RNC, and now new vegas is destroyed? Why is this set in new vegas? If not to capitalise on the hardcore fan of the games that would come to see the show? If they didn't want to appeal to fans, they could have perfectly continued with new locations, the first season did well, odds are the second would have too even if they didn't hype new vegas. I like the show but this take sounds idiotic.
Personally I would have liked it more if they created their own story based on the lore. There are many vaults mentioned in the game, but not shown. They have a great base with Lucy and the others. They could have easily put them elsewhere instead of using a beloved game/ game location. I adore the series but still, I would have preferred a different approach.
This is a strawman argument that rids them of any responsibility. Yes, some fans would be annoyed no matter what - but the actual criticism is poor writing and a plot line that, so far, literally cannot work with any of the outcomes/endings from FNV. The scenes with the legion were literally laughable, it felt like a parody or a sketch.
I felt that in season 1, and a bit so far in 2, that the writers have to have the setting look the same as it did in the earlier games/start of the modern games, meaning they’ve had to undo a lot of the progress of the setting. To keep it looking on-brand, they’ve had to get rid of the NCR for instance. It’s my main issue with the show.
I do enjoy The Ghoul and Lucy as characters but the world just feels like a caricature of the setting.
Nah, being a Bethesda fan is a fool’s errand. 15 years since Skyrim’s release, 10 years since Fallout 4’s. People genuinely have kids that were born when Skyrim came out and those kids are now in Highschool, and people had theirs around Fallout 4’s release and they’re getting there too. Fans are the only reason these companies make money consistently, otherwise they end up like Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age Veilguard, Assassin’s Creed Shadows, even Fallout 76 since that has lasting damage on the franchise. At least the majority of people don’t support Starfield, “Bethesda’s big third franchise”, as they’re not as stupid as Bethesda thinks they are
I'm not even watching the series, but let me say one thing. Any creative who says they will make fans angry does not excuse them if they did a shit job. You can't just say, "Well, it might be considered bad." and then call it vindication when people say it's bad.
There's a difference between "fans being salty that their favourite ending isn't canon" and "writers shitting all over established lore like it doesn't matter". I really hope they don't turn House into some stereotypical evil genius, because right now I really don't like what I'm seeing of him. He may not have been a "good" character, but he wasn't cartoonishy evil like he's been presented as thus far. Shady Sands was established as a beacon of civilisation in the wastes, and they just had Hank nuke it so they could wipe the slate clean and do their own thing. I really don't like it when writers do that.
Pleasing fans and breaking worldbuilding hard are not the same things. You lost Karma Nolan.
I grew up playing fallout, played it all my life. It's my favorite fictional universe, and I love the show. It's not perfectly lore accurate, but it's not like the Halo tv show. I've seen more people around my town wearing fallout merch than I ever have since it came out.
Pretty much my thoughts here. Halo has been my favorite franchise since I was introduced to it, and seeing the show further decimate hope for the future, I can confidently say that it really can be much worse than some people here think.
I understand the complaints that people have, but Fallout has had a much more faithful and cared for show when compared to many other video game adaptations. I've been thoroughly enjoying it, even though some parts aren't exactly the way I would've wished them to be.
Looks more like preemptive ass coverage to me bud...
Actively antagonise the hardcore fans.
Hardcore fans are pissed off.
"There's just no pleasing these people."