There was also that shooting at a Walmart in El Paso Texas. A state where many people are armed and not one citizen stepped in or shot their weapons at the assailant.
There was that one shooting in Colorado where multiple people got out their guns to stop an assailant. All it did was hinder the investigation and let the person who did it get away easier.
The mistake is to pull out the firearm. Rule #1, you dont pull unless you have an intent to fire. Rule #2 if someone is shooting, you only pull if you are going to immediately fire. Pulling sooner makes you a target. The original shooter should never be able to walk away.
I have never understood how police (or even other concealed carry civilians) are supposed to tell a good guy with a gun from a bad guy with a gun during a chaotic shooting situation.
Years ago when I was reporter I was covering some issues around a rural county’s sheriff’s office. One was that the sheriff had stopped dispatching his deputies to assist a very small police department in a distant corner of the county. This department’s officers were local guys who worked on their farms and often responded to calls straight from their fields, in whatever they were wearing, like T-shirts and shorts. “Police work isn’t volunteer firefighting!” the sheriff told me. He noted that the township in question bordered on two adjacent counties whose sheriffs’ offices he had mutual aid agreements with. “There’s a reason police officers wear uniforms. You have those guys running around on a call, someone’s gonna get popped. I can’t expose the county to that kind of liability.”
There was an incident a few years ago, in Colorado, where a bystander stopped a gunman engaged in a mass shooting. When the police arrived they shot and killed the good samaritan.
They can't. At least one incident I remember where a good guy with a gun shot the bad guy, then was instantly shot dead themselves when more police arrived on the scene. It's ok though, the police said the good guy with a gun was a hero. Which he undoubtedly was, but it kind of proves the illogical thinking behind more people with guns being the solution to mass murderers with guns. Citizens, put your lives on the line & die heroically, because the police aren't going to risk their own lives if they don't have to."
The system works perfectly when everyone remembers to wear their bad guy with a gun beret or good guy with a gun oversized T-shirt but people can’t be bothered to do even the most basic civic duties
Guy I knew did IDPA and they loved to throw "what if" scenarios at them during meets. I forget the setup, but the random encounter they came across was "dude has gun on other dude, what do you do?"
If you picked "shoot the guy with the gun" or otherwise interfere with him, congratulations! You just assaulted a plainclothes cop arresting a suspect.
More failed this exercise than should have. The lesson was you very likely will never have the full context of a situation, and you shouldn't insert yourself into a situation unless you have zero choice.
International Defensive Pistol Association. They basically mixed LARPing with target shooting. They come up with some fun scenarios and score you based on accuracy, time, and a few other things. The scenarios he did could be super realistic to reproducing something from an action movie.
this! not to mention the authorities coming in won't know who is a "bad guy" with a gun and who is a "good guy" with a gun and that could cause even gun carriers with the best intentions to be mistaken for the shooter.
There was also an incident in Tulsa, OK. Irate customer physically attacked the employee at the photo counter. Employee pulled HIS gun—despite Walgreen’s prohibiting firearms—and shot the customer. Another employee and customer were also wounded.
Also, just clarifying in advance that I’m a human who likes em dashes. Don’t need anyone saying I’m AI. Have enough self-esteem issues 😅
I think it's even more strange that he was born and raised in the US, and went to medical school (though he did poorly), became a psychiatrist (of all things - BECAUSE he couldn't stand the sight of blood!) and then continued to get additional optional training with a masters in public health to go along with his additional training in Preventative Psychiatry.... all the while becoming radicalized.
Like - how does someone born and raised in the US, who chooses to join the military - and then medical school - become so scared of blood and battle - that he goes on a bloody rampage to get out of his deployment to Afghanistan? - and at the same time, go from a normal Muslim to a radical one?
I can't answer the rest of your questions. I would imagine the transition from a normal Muslim to a radical one happens exactly the same way it happens to Christians who start off normal and dive off into some crazy Christian cult.
true - but I would think that would happen less when you are in the military and being "indoctrinated" for lack of better word into the ethos of the US Army.
Also, my other point being - how can you be so meek as to not be able to deal with blood, and spend 7 years training in how to *prevent* US soldiers from getting PTSD and other mental health disorders specific to combat and military service, and then go off the deep end yourself.
Several years ago, I listened to a lecture by a military psychiatrist. They have interesting ways to prevent PTSD from occurring after a critical and traumatic incident if they can get to the affected soldier in time. Those military psychiatrists are no joke.
Imho the process of being indoctrinated one way opens you to being more easily indoctrinated period, which is how someone better at that got to him more efficiently
I read once about that shooting on the community college campus in Roseville, OR. Conservatives kept saying it was a gun-free zone. Well, Oregon law says public universities and colleges cannot bar people from carrying weapons on campus. There was, that day, one guy who was carrying. And, he says, since he was a veteran who’d fought in Afghanistan he knew better than to be the hero that day (since he wasn’t wearing a uniform, the cops would have thought he was the bad guy) and left that to the professionals.
He got tons of hate mail and death threats from gun nuts because he said that. Had to go into hiding for a while.
Yeah. Also in schools, movie theaters, strip clubs, malls, and other places where people aren't allowed to carry guns. You ever been on a military base? They lock your personal weapons in an armory, so you don't have them on your person.
I’m sorry, how are we not talking about the fact this guy says HE ISNT EVEN CARRYING!?! He believes the only way he’ll be safe from a shooter is if some other third person with a gun is there!?
No he's saying the bad guys with guns will go in. Because of the no gun signs. So he won't go in and risk getting shot. Which makes about as much sense as not going into a place with no smoking signs because bad guys are gonna be in there puffing away. Actually nevermind that was a terrible analogy but it's still almost as stupid of a mindset.
The only thing I could kinda see is being worried that your car might be broken into by people looking for the guns that shoppers can't take inside.
I think he's implying that he usually does but wasn't on that day, but he didn't go in on principle. That principle being that the signs posted make the place inherently unsafe because criminals will target it. The flip side being, a place is safer if people are allowed to carry while inside (as in, no signage). Criminals will avoid robbing or shooting that place up. But gas stations and convenience stores around the country beg to differ... Because meth just does not care.
So yeah I guess he's kinda counting on good guys with guns as deterrents but also wants a chance to be a good guy with a gun saving the day. Or patrolling the produce aisle to keep shoppers safe. 🫡
I've known enthusiastic concealed carry people who insisted they needed their gun at the grocery store. And the fact that no one has ever opened fire while they shopped probably bolsters their beliefs. Idk. I usually have cat hair on my clothing somewhere. I've never had a gun pulled on me. Coincidence? I think so.
Which happens more than most gun nuts like to admit because they never bother to lock their cars or even conceal the guns in their cars (and even still, it’s very easy for a thief to quickly look in the glove, that compartment between seats, and under the front seat for the “concealed” handgun). And when guns are stolen, most gun nuts are too embarrassed to admit that they found out the hard way that the anti-crime field they thought the gun emitted wasn’t strong enough to keep the gun itself from being stolen. So, except in the 11 (I think … it may be more now) states where you are required to report a lost or stolen firearm to the police, they just go and buy another gun.
I think the idea there is that the supposedly deterrent effect of an armed population on government overreach only works when the government can’t have a clear idea of who is and isn’t armed.
Police lobbies have always worked for bills requiring this in every state. It has been one of the few things Republican legislatures have been unwilling to give them.
You're statistically far more likely to kill or injure yourself or someone you love than you are to stop a mass shooter or other "bad guy with a gun," but don't let facts get in the way of your hero fantasy.
You sure? Even at the CDC's lowest estimate of 60,000 per year, that is already exceeding the 47,000 that fall victim to gun violence (most being suicide). And at best its 50x
So yes... statistics actually do support my comment and you probably should have put in a tiny bit of research before doubling down on it.
Exactly. People carry guns into places like grocery stores because they live in fear, and fear causes outsized reactions in the worst situations. They assume their carrying a gun is intimidating to anyone else who has a gun, so they just end up side-eyeing each other in...fear. Your average gun owner who open carries everywhere has nowhere near the presence of mind or experience to react appropriately in a situation of a REAL shooter, and is more likely than not to end up killing an innocent person (or even another 'good guy' who's also heroically trying to save the day).
Several Halloweens ago a friend and I went to our local pawn shop because they were having a sale. There was a guy dressed as Jesus buying a rifle case and making costume appropriate jokes with the staff. It was all very amusing until a guy pulls an employee over to the next aisle and hisses "I think he is going to shot up the place!" while flashing his gun so the employee would know this guy was totally ready to take down faux Jesus.
I don't care if he forgot it was Halloween that guy is way too anxious to be carrying a gun.
it really does though. I hear many gun owners around me saying they have a gun on them 24/7, its the only reason bad things dont happen to them, and they act like the second it isnt within their grasp some massive thug immediately appears around the corner to rob them. They live in that fear. I own zero guns, and work and live in the same environment, and still that boogeymen has never appeared, and I dont live in constant fear it will
On the first season of Alone two dude quit the very first night. The show producers tried to cast real survivalists who could last a long time in the wilderness. The guys who quit cried like big blubbering babies in uncontrollable fear because they didn't have guns. They were utterly convinced somebody or something would come kill them after less than twelve hours without a gun they broke down crying on national tv and quit a show they spent months training for. Gun nuts are the biggest pussies on earth.
I used to live in Iowa, and even though its violent crime rate is super low, I know people that won't even walk out to their mailbox without being armed like they're about to take Fallujah. It's such a pathetic, cowardly mindset.
As an outsider, I'm not sure I'll ever wrap my head around Americans screeching about all the freedom they have as opposed to elsewhere - they'll invariably be talking about the 1st and 2nd amendments ..
"This is the greatest country on the planet, because I have the right to be a horrible racist cunt in public without repercussion (from the government) - AND I can take my semi automatic penis extension out grocery shopping with me!!".
Now, call me a radical left woke communist socialist marxist europoor lunatic... But personally I'd have thought having fewer absolute wankstains wandering around the place armed to the teeth would actually make somewhere a more pleasant place to live.
Evidently I just don't understand the great freedumb.
Yup. I like firearms from a historical and hobbyist perspective. But unfortunately the hobby is inundated with complete children who can't go pump gas in their suburb without a CCW and 2 spare mags.
Seeing otherwise neat guys/gals like hikock(sp?) who have interesting channels and knowledge, but then cease to function when visiting CA and having to not have a pistol on their belt is just so funny.
To be clear, the "no guns" signs have a mix of legality depending on the state. Some places it's legally enforceable, some places its legally ignorable. To be clear, by enforceable I mean "If someone posts that sign and you ignore it, it's a misdemeanor offense if they call the cops". So not just a "you're trespassing and get kicked out" but you can get charged with a real criminal offense - even if they haven't asked you to leave yet.
Oh and before the gun nuts go "That sort of shit is what we'd expect from commiefornia"... it's actually a thing in TEXAS and Oklahoma and Florida - ya know - the gun toting states. In California it's only enforceable after they've asked you to leave (eg it doesn't really matter because they've tresspassed you anyways).
Keeping in mind that should any private establishment can set basically any rules they want, ask you to leave, for any reason, and they are well within their rights to do so.
Oh, I’m not questioning its legality. I’m saying that the pro gun argument won’t stop criminals is true of every crime and makes zero sense. Like, if you have speed limits that won’t stop speeding isn’t an argument against speed limits.
Kindergarteners run off to school every day on a bus with no seat belts, attend classes with unvaccinated kids, and are ordered around by strange adults, all the while schools have become the #1 place where kids die from gunshots. Yet they aren't armed.
All I want is grown ass men to have the same courage as a 5yr old girl.
Or be mistaken for the bad guy, when the cops show up and have to determine WHO the bad guy is. And what if the bad guy then tries say 'Wait, I'm the GOOD guy just trying to shoot the bad guy!' in order to evade arrest?
I can just see it: a bunch of gun-totin' 'good guys' all start shooting at each other in an effort to take down the 'bad guy', because they can't figure out who the bad guy even is because they're all shooting at SOMEone else with a gun.
During the Vegas shooting, a bunch of idiots heard shots and started waving their guns around. No one could tell where the echoing shots were coming from, so everyone looked like a shooter. No one, including the police, knew where the shooting was ACTUALLY happening for a long time, as conflicting reports of people with guns made it sound like a coordinated attack simultaneously happening in multiple casinos. Everyone was running in every direction. Total chaos caused by idiots. Open carry states are ridiculous.
Therein lies the problem with the "good guy with a gun" argument. Just because you're armed doesn't mean that you have the training or ability to take out a mass shooter. People are running, they're screaming, they're trying to hide, it's absolute chaos. Do people really think they're going to be capable of handling a situation like that just because they have a gun? It's not like going to the gun range. It's a dynamic situation that most people are not trained to handle.
And the people who make tons of money from running combat shooting courses like that are, ironically, some of the least sanguine about the idea that having a lot of armed people running around makes us all safer. (Hell, I very much doubt even that an armed society is a polite society … anybody who reads Beyond This Horizon can see just how ironically Heinlein meant it).
The majority of what needs to be learned is mental, specifically how to handle the mental stress of being in a situation where you or others could very possibly die if you make a wrong move. Consider the fact that almost 20 professionally trained police officers stood outside a classroom doing nothing - NOTHING! - for over an hour while there were children trapped inside with an active shooter.
Learning how to kick in a door and sweep a room (and if you're talking about those VR "training courses," this goes double) doesn't count for shit. In fact, it arguably makes things worse. Some guy that realizes he's wildly unprepared for the situation will give up far quicker than some dude who's convinced he's "trained" for it.
I would argue that it doesn't put a hole in it so much as show that even regular cops aren't trained "right" in these scenarios. But it does put the lie to "I took a class, therefore I know exactly what to do and will do it."
That said, you are correct here. It IS all hypothetical. Nobody knows what they would do in any situation until they've actually faced it. You'll either panic or be like that guy in Australia (Ahmed al Ahmed, because he deserves to be named) and actually do something, armed or not. Recall also the three people who subdued the shooter in the Colorado Springs bar back in 2022 (Thomas James, Richard Fierro, and Drea Norman), all unarmed.
The fact is, you're either going to do something or you're not, and it has nothing to do with whether you have a gun. The only thing being armed and improperly trained does is increase the likelihood of additional victims. And unless you're on a SWAT team or in the military (and even then it's not guaranteed), you are improperly trained.
I own a gun and think it’s an important right, but that’s the farthest I’d ever argue it
But yeah I mean my phone has to look at my face to read a text yet guns have effectively no real security from someone other than the owner operating them
Back to the point, full agree I don’t trust anyone with these things - I trust myself only the slightest, tiniest bit more than strangers because I care about safety and investing in learning how to just safely own tools
Plus where I live I don’t want to be unarmed running into large animals
Ironically, the fact that you basically said, "I barely trust myself" means that I would trust you a great deal more than I would trust somebody like this dude. It's whatever the opposite of Dunning-Kruger is.
And I get you about not wanting to be unarmed where there are lots of big animals. My dad has a friend in Wyoming who got attacked by a bear once. He survived, but still.
After spending some time at a shooting range, it will become quite apparent that most "good guys with guns" couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat. They have trouble hitting a stationary piece of paper that's across the room, but they think they're going to take out some mass shooter when the shit hits the fan. Rambo fantasies from people who can't piss without hitting the toilet seat.
That assumes they’re not bringing their friend to teach them how to shoot … with a .44, resulting in a great deal of damage to the range’s ceiling.
To paraphrase that supposed Winston Churchill quote about the best argument against democracy being a 15-minute conversation with the average voter, the best argument against the right to keep,and bear arms is working for a month at the average American firing range open to the public.
Nope. Years ago a federal district court ruled in Newman v. Piggie Park that the Free Exercise Clause does not give you the right to infringe the rights of your fellow citizens in the exercise of your rights. The Supreme Court upheld it four years later.
The problem is that people lie and make up excuses. Subtle racism, classism, misogyny and other ways of discrimination are unfortunately the way many people operate.
At least with magas, the bigotry is out front so there is no doubt who you are dealing with.
Last year I was at a kids play area where employees had to argue down a guy who wanted to open-carry his gun onto the trampolines. Personal preference, I would rather be killed by an evil man than a stupid one.
And how am I supposed to tell the difference between a criminal and a “responsible gun owner?” Remove guns from the equation at my grocery store, and I don’t have to worry about someone losing it out of aggravation and shooting people. I don’t trust the sanity of most people these days, especially the louder gun owners who are on average pretty paranoid.
The sad part is that it doesn't even have to be someone who is angry and shooting people on purpose.
There has been more than one instance in my local area of people improperly carrying their guns and getting killed by toddlers (usually moms who let their gun rattle around in the purse they let their kid play with) or accidentally shooting themselves when they have an unsecured gun in a pocket or purse. Had a grocery store shut down for a while after an older woman's gun went off at the checkstand. It didn't hurt anyone, luckily, but they had to do a full investigation anyway.
I just don't trust the average person to be properly responsible about carrying these things. I know there are people out there that actually treat them like the weapons they are, who secure them properly and follow all the precautions. But there are quite a few running around who just...don't.
I think of Dan Bilzerian, that pro poker player and faux-ex Navy SEAL whose father was a corporate raider during the ‘80s later convicted of several felonies.
He used to post pictures of all his guns on his social media with the caption that “my biggest fear if someone robs my house is that I won’t be able to decide which gun I should shoot them with.” Heh heh.
Well.
He was caught outside during the Las Vegas shootings, and had a gun on him, but knew it was too small to effectively fire back. He was also recording some video for his social media at the time, on which he recorded (since-deleted) footage of him going back to his apartment to … get the right gun and the right ammo for the situation, a subject which he began discussing earnestly. As he went back he walked past wounded people begging for help, some of whom may later have died.
And by the time he got back with the right gun and the right ammo, the shooting was over.
some people will still go in with a gun if there is a sign or not. That's the thing about it being 'concealed', most people would never know it. That sign is merely for legal reasons for enforcement reasons which would legally allow that company to have you criminally trespassed off the property for having a gun on their property (their PRIVATE property) if you were caught carrying. Responsible gun owners would do it, and take the risk of being caught, and they would be more likely to be the ones that would be able to properly conceal it without out anyone else knowing they were carrying
All I'm hearing is I need my gun to buy some milk, bread and toilet paper because gosh darn it this is America! And in America you can possibly shoot someone while you pick up your daily l list and gosh dang it if you tell me I can't carry in your store well then screw you.
Seriously life isn't an action movie where the random civilian or former security/cop/military American with a gun can just magically hit every bad guy target without ever hitting any random poor civilian. This is real life. I live in Canada and the general rule in most provinces including mine is unless you are police or hunters in a legit hunting spot outdoors with a license you don't carry a gun especially not in stores. Somehow it's never once bothered me that I can't walk into a random store and have a gun on me for protection lest some unhinged psycho come in to start shooting. Because even if I did have a gun whose to say I can't misinterpret a situation and shoot someone with a gun not even using their gun at all? Whose to say the police might not interpret me to be the shooter and shoot me? What if I try to stop a person and I hit some random innocent person taking their life now I need to live with that guilt because I wanted to be John Wayne or Clint Eastwood? Truth lots of people are a lousy shot especially in a busy scary chaotic scene with people including innocent people trying to flee. You won't do shit most likely unless you are a trained person and even they can mess up too.
people commit mass shootings at places where guns are banned so no place should ban guns in case someone commits a mass shooting at a place where guns are banned bc people will not commit mass shootings at a place where guns aren’t banned so no gun bans means no mass shootings bc everyone will have a gun that they could theoretically use to commit a mass shooting in a place with a gun ban but won’t bc there is no place where guns are banned so in conclusion more guns means fewer mass shootings.
Why do they always use so many unnecessary words to convey the message that "I am a terrified man-child who believes everyone with skin darker than mine is out to kill, rob,or otherwise maim me so I need my pew-pew to feel like a big strong man when in public or even sitting at home thinking of being in public?"
Something conservatives will never understand is that private businesses are allowed to deny entry for whatever reason they want. It’s private property. This is just like when we tried to explain to them that businesses requiring masking during the pandemic was NOT illegal
The store taking away their rights... by the reviewer choosing to go to a different store after seeing the sign? If anything they are flexing their rights by going somewhere else.
Gun people (at least the variety in this review) in the USA seem to have so many fantasies about guns that almost never match reality.
- If someone does a home invasion they will spend 5 minutes banging and crashing downstairs so I can arm up and ambush them
- If someone suddenly mugs me in public the gun I keep concealed will save me
- And in this case, any area that freely encourages carrying guns is extremely safe because no mass shooter would ever mess with all those good guys with guns
I used to work in a healthcare clinic in billing. It was a bad part of town and i carried every day. Thankfully never needed it but the joke was if they got robbed again they would key my extension and we would not try to disarm them. Just stick them in the MRI room. But its only funny if you dont think about the MRI magnet is not actually gonna yank metallic stuff out of peoples hands unless they try to dive through the ring.
"Only people with ill intent would bring a gun into the store with this sign" my brother in christ that's literally the fucking point. Now the people in there aren't wasting precious seconds trying to figure out if the person with a gun is dangerous or not and if God forbid a shooting does happen, there aren't a bunch of panicked untrained yahoos adding extra bullets to the mayhem and making it harder for vicfims and police to identify the actual gunmen
You are quite literally recommended to never hold a gun in a shooting situation, even if it's the one you confiscated from the shooter, because the police are more likely to shoot you thinking you're the attacker.
It should be a requirement that in order to obtain a concealed carry license, that you have to be tested to able to accurately hit both stationary and moving targets (in order to avoid accidents), and that they have to take and pass active shooter training along with with a follow up class and test every 6 or 12 months in order to keep the concealed carry license.
I grew up being taught gun Saftey, my dad has a concealed carry license but when he knows it’s an inappropriate place to have it, it goes into his car gun safe or stays at home in the main gun safe, he has taken active shooter safety training for if he isn’t carrying and for if he is.
I don’t trust most people with guns unless I know for a fact that they’ve gone through hunter saftey/gun safety classes. I’ve had people come over with a gun on them and I will immediately ask that they remove the magazine along with the one in the chamber and to please set it down where we both can see it so I feel comfortable and safe in my own place.
I am truly terrified of guns and what they can do but I also know how to properly handle one and shoot it if needed.
I don’t live in an open carry state so haven’t seen the no gun signs. Can anyone from those states testify if the “no gun” places ACTUALLY get targeted more? Seems like it wouldn’t matter at all
I try not to be rude about illiteracy but it doesn't give me confidence in someone's responsibility with regard to gun ownership and handling, if they can barely write.
I wouldn't trust this guy to read the room and figure out who to protect and who to protect them from.
Mass shootings happen in areas where no rational, sane person would bring a gun. So if you have a gun at any of those places: congratulations! You’re the opposite of a rational, sane person.
A gun shoukd be carried everywhere legally allowed. Violence happens EVERYWHERE. And criminals prefer victims that aren't able to adequately defend themselves. Police aren't obligated to protect you (yes, there has been court cases upholding this) and the only person you have us yourself.
So, why wouldn't you use the mist effective tool to protect yourself???
I can’t think of a single scenario where a Good Samaritan with a gun stopped a mass shooting. I’m sure they exist, but few and far between. You’re more likely to hurt yourself or someone else by accident than you are to use it for self defense.
The thing is people carrying guns don’t engage mass shooters, they run and hide. I know, I know they have some fantasy of being Rambo and taking out the bad guy to save the day, but they don’t. In a country that has more guns than people there are very few incidents where a bystander just pulls out a gun and stops the bad guy. I don’t know of any but I’m sure someone somewhere may have done it but if they did it’s rare. Instead, if someone steps in they are usually unarmed and tackles them as the guy in Australia did.
So you're definitely thinking the next mass shooting will be at Whole Foods? My dude, I'm pretty sure anyone with the mindset thinking about carrying out a mass casualty doesn't start with a grocery store?
This is stupid because if you actually look at the doors, many many shops have similar signs. Most chain grocery stores have this. Hell, many Walmarts have the same signage now and as a corporate has significantly curtailed their sales.
If your personal policy is to not shop anywhere guns are not allowed, that is totally your right as an American. However, you will be finding it very challenging to procure food.
But uh, yea, also ... most mass shootings are not at grocery stores. Statistically speaking.
Wasn't there literally a mass shooting on a military base?
There was also that shooting at a Walmart in El Paso Texas. A state where many people are armed and not one citizen stepped in or shot their weapons at the assailant.
There was that one shooting in Colorado where multiple people got out their guns to stop an assailant. All it did was hinder the investigation and let the person who did it get away easier.
The mistake is to pull out the firearm. Rule #1, you dont pull unless you have an intent to fire. Rule #2 if someone is shooting, you only pull if you are going to immediately fire. Pulling sooner makes you a target. The original shooter should never be able to walk away.
I have never understood how police (or even other concealed carry civilians) are supposed to tell a good guy with a gun from a bad guy with a gun during a chaotic shooting situation.
That's the fun part, they're not!
Years ago when I was reporter I was covering some issues around a rural county’s sheriff’s office. One was that the sheriff had stopped dispatching his deputies to assist a very small police department in a distant corner of the county. This department’s officers were local guys who worked on their farms and often responded to calls straight from their fields, in whatever they were wearing, like T-shirts and shorts. “Police work isn’t volunteer firefighting!” the sheriff told me. He noted that the township in question bordered on two adjacent counties whose sheriffs’ offices he had mutual aid agreements with. “There’s a reason police officers wear uniforms. You have those guys running around on a call, someone’s gonna get popped. I can’t expose the county to that kind of liability.”
There was an incident a few years ago, in Colorado, where a bystander stopped a gunman engaged in a mass shooting. When the police arrived they shot and killed the good samaritan.
Wasn’t that dude like in the Army or had just gotten out?
They don't need to! They wait outside the school when this happen.
They can't. At least one incident I remember where a good guy with a gun shot the bad guy, then was instantly shot dead themselves when more police arrived on the scene. It's ok though, the police said the good guy with a gun was a hero. Which he undoubtedly was, but it kind of proves the illogical thinking behind more people with guns being the solution to mass murderers with guns. Citizens, put your lives on the line & die heroically, because the police aren't going to risk their own lives if they don't have to."
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/28/colorado-gunman-police-officer-killed
They’re allowed to shoot anybody they want , with no fear of consequences.
The system works perfectly when everyone remembers to wear their bad guy with a gun beret or good guy with a gun oversized T-shirt but people can’t be bothered to do even the most basic civic duties
Guy I knew did IDPA and they loved to throw "what if" scenarios at them during meets. I forget the setup, but the random encounter they came across was "dude has gun on other dude, what do you do?"
If you picked "shoot the guy with the gun" or otherwise interfere with him, congratulations! You just assaulted a plainclothes cop arresting a suspect.
More failed this exercise than should have. The lesson was you very likely will never have the full context of a situation, and you shouldn't insert yourself into a situation unless you have zero choice.
IDPA?
International Defensive Pistol Association. They basically mixed LARPing with target shooting. They come up with some fun scenarios and score you based on accuracy, time, and a few other things. The scenarios he did could be super realistic to reproducing something from an action movie.
this! not to mention the authorities coming in won't know who is a "bad guy" with a gun and who is a "good guy" with a gun and that could cause even gun carriers with the best intentions to be mistaken for the shooter.
There was also an incident in Tulsa, OK. Irate customer physically attacked the employee at the photo counter. Employee pulled HIS gun—despite Walgreen’s prohibiting firearms—and shot the customer. Another employee and customer were also wounded.
Also, just clarifying in advance that I’m a human who likes em dashes. Don’t need anyone saying I’m AI. Have enough self-esteem issues 😅
Yes on Fort Hood. It was horrible. It was a soldier, a psychiatrist.
More to the point, Hasan was an Islamic extremist terrorist. Then Ft Hood had another shooter five years later.
I think it's even more strange that he was born and raised in the US, and went to medical school (though he did poorly), became a psychiatrist (of all things - BECAUSE he couldn't stand the sight of blood!) and then continued to get additional optional training with a masters in public health to go along with his additional training in Preventative Psychiatry.... all the while becoming radicalized.
Like - how does someone born and raised in the US, who chooses to join the military - and then medical school - become so scared of blood and battle - that he goes on a bloody rampage to get out of his deployment to Afghanistan? - and at the same time, go from a normal Muslim to a radical one?
I can't answer the rest of your questions. I would imagine the transition from a normal Muslim to a radical one happens exactly the same way it happens to Christians who start off normal and dive off into some crazy Christian cult.
true - but I would think that would happen less when you are in the military and being "indoctrinated" for lack of better word into the ethos of the US Army.
Also, my other point being - how can you be so meek as to not be able to deal with blood, and spend 7 years training in how to *prevent* US soldiers from getting PTSD and other mental health disorders specific to combat and military service, and then go off the deep end yourself.
Several years ago, I listened to a lecture by a military psychiatrist. They have interesting ways to prevent PTSD from occurring after a critical and traumatic incident if they can get to the affected soldier in time. Those military psychiatrists are no joke.
So I just find it really perplexing.
Imho the process of being indoctrinated one way opens you to being more easily indoctrinated period, which is how someone better at that got to him more efficiently
It's easy to become radicalized in the US. You're literally watching millions of people become radicalized in real time right now.
Yes, several. Only police can have usable guns off the training range. A bunch of trained & background checked people, made helpless by policy.
Also a shooting near where I lived in Montana this summer. Where everyone has guns.
Soldiers don't usually carry weapons. Only the gate guards and military police.
Yep. Here in Ft Stewart in Georgia. He shot like 9 people before they brought him down.
I read once about that shooting on the community college campus in Roseville, OR. Conservatives kept saying it was a gun-free zone. Well, Oregon law says public universities and colleges cannot bar people from carrying weapons on campus. There was, that day, one guy who was carrying. And, he says, since he was a veteran who’d fought in Afghanistan he knew better than to be the hero that day (since he wasn’t wearing a uniform, the cops would have thought he was the bad guy) and left that to the professionals.
He got tons of hate mail and death threats from gun nuts because he said that. Had to go into hiding for a while.
Multiple. Ft Hood and Pensacola, off the top of my head.
Yeah but everyone had left their guns home that day and the armory key was out of the building because they were making copies of it.
The LAMEstream media don’t want you to know the truth!
Military bases are gun free zones lol
Most people on military bases aren't allowed access to guns except for a handful of on-duty gate guards so your argument kind of falls apart there.
If that was true, countries with gun control laws, like Canada, would have the highest mass shooting event occurrences.
But yet we learn that they in fact have the lowest. These fucking guys.
Troops on base dont carry guns
98% of mass shootings happen in "gun-free" zones. Yes there was a shooting on a military base. ONE.
Now consider your first action in the event of "bad guy with a gun"; you call good guys with guns. Just saying.
Yeah. Also in schools, movie theaters, strip clubs, malls, and other places where people aren't allowed to carry guns. You ever been on a military base? They lock your personal weapons in an armory, so you don't have them on your person.
Also many school shooters use guns that they bring from home.
I’m sorry, how are we not talking about the fact this guy says HE ISNT EVEN CARRYING!?! He believes the only way he’ll be safe from a shooter is if some other third person with a gun is there!?
No he's saying the bad guys with guns will go in. Because of the no gun signs. So he won't go in and risk getting shot. Which makes about as much sense as not going into a place with no smoking signs because bad guys are gonna be in there puffing away. Actually nevermind that was a terrible analogy but it's still almost as stupid of a mindset.
The only thing I could kinda see is being worried that your car might be broken into by people looking for the guns that shoppers can't take inside.
Right…and he needs good guys with guns to protect him from bad guys with guns. But doesn’t carry one himself…
I think he's implying that he usually does but wasn't on that day, but he didn't go in on principle. That principle being that the signs posted make the place inherently unsafe because criminals will target it. The flip side being, a place is safer if people are allowed to carry while inside (as in, no signage). Criminals will avoid robbing or shooting that place up. But gas stations and convenience stores around the country beg to differ... Because meth just does not care.
So yeah I guess he's kinda counting on good guys with guns as deterrents but also wants a chance to be a good guy with a gun saving the day. Or patrolling the produce aisle to keep shoppers safe. 🫡
I've known enthusiastic concealed carry people who insisted they needed their gun at the grocery store. And the fact that no one has ever opened fire while they shopped probably bolsters their beliefs. Idk. I usually have cat hair on my clothing somewhere. I've never had a gun pulled on me. Coincidence? I think so.
Which happens more than most gun nuts like to admit because they never bother to lock their cars or even conceal the guns in their cars (and even still, it’s very easy for a thief to quickly look in the glove, that compartment between seats, and under the front seat for the “concealed” handgun). And when guns are stolen, most gun nuts are too embarrassed to admit that they found out the hard way that the anti-crime field they thought the gun emitted wasn’t strong enough to keep the gun itself from being stolen. So, except in the 11 (I think … it may be more now) states where you are required to report a lost or stolen firearm to the police, they just go and buy another gun.
Most states dont require reporting a missing weapon? Thats insane.
I think the idea there is that the supposedly deterrent effect of an armed population on government overreach only works when the government can’t have a clear idea of who is and isn’t armed.
Police lobbies have always worked for bills requiring this in every state. It has been one of the few things Republican legislatures have been unwilling to give them.
None of it makes any sense at all. Their is no deterrent effect, mostly it gets people shot.
I mean he isn't wrong... You call the cops when shit goes south.
I just ignore those signs. A fine or a ticket is better than a casket
You're statistically far more likely to kill or injure yourself or someone you love than you are to stop a mass shooter or other "bad guy with a gun," but don't let facts get in the way of your hero fantasy.
FBI and CDC stats would disagree by a lot
No they wouldn't.
https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/firearms/fastfact.html
You sure? Even at the CDC's lowest estimate of 60,000 per year, that is already exceeding the 47,000 that fall victim to gun violence (most being suicide). And at best its 50x
So yes... statistics actually do support my comment and you probably should have put in a tiny bit of research before doubling down on it.
The great irony of gun ownership is that it turns people like this into complete babies that constantly live in fear and paranoia.
Exactly. People carry guns into places like grocery stores because they live in fear, and fear causes outsized reactions in the worst situations. They assume their carrying a gun is intimidating to anyone else who has a gun, so they just end up side-eyeing each other in...fear. Your average gun owner who open carries everywhere has nowhere near the presence of mind or experience to react appropriately in a situation of a REAL shooter, and is more likely than not to end up killing an innocent person (or even another 'good guy' who's also heroically trying to save the day).
Several Halloweens ago a friend and I went to our local pawn shop because they were having a sale. There was a guy dressed as Jesus buying a rifle case and making costume appropriate jokes with the staff. It was all very amusing until a guy pulls an employee over to the next aisle and hisses "I think he is going to shot up the place!" while flashing his gun so the employee would know this guy was totally ready to take down faux Jesus.
I don't care if he forgot it was Halloween that guy is way too anxious to be carrying a gun.
it really does though. I hear many gun owners around me saying they have a gun on them 24/7, its the only reason bad things dont happen to them, and they act like the second it isnt within their grasp some massive thug immediately appears around the corner to rob them. They live in that fear. I own zero guns, and work and live in the same environment, and still that boogeymen has never appeared, and I dont live in constant fear it will
These guys are frankly more in danger of shooting themselves.
or being shot by someone else (spouse, small child, etc) with that very weapon!
look, i own… a number of guns
i don’t carry daily. i can if i want to, but i choose not to. i’m not fuckin rambo, if shooting breaks out i’m fuckin gone.
i have mine for home defense and hunting, thats it
Yeah I moreso am referring the real nutsos here
The people who fantasize about winning shootouts at Wholefoods are the real nutsos here
On the first season of Alone two dude quit the very first night. The show producers tried to cast real survivalists who could last a long time in the wilderness. The guys who quit cried like big blubbering babies in uncontrollable fear because they didn't have guns. They were utterly convinced somebody or something would come kill them after less than twelve hours without a gun they broke down crying on national tv and quit a show they spent months training for. Gun nuts are the biggest pussies on earth.
Was that the cop/former cop that thought he heard a bear and basically shit himself?
Kinda makes sense, the gun would turn into some kind of security blanket
Especially when I am 99 percent sure there has never been a mass shooting at a Whole Foods. Knock on wood.
I used to live in Iowa, and even though its violent crime rate is super low, I know people that won't even walk out to their mailbox without being armed like they're about to take Fallujah. It's such a pathetic, cowardly mindset.
As an outsider, I'm not sure I'll ever wrap my head around Americans screeching about all the freedom they have as opposed to elsewhere - they'll invariably be talking about the 1st and 2nd amendments ..
"This is the greatest country on the planet, because I have the right to be a horrible racist cunt in public without repercussion (from the government) - AND I can take my semi automatic penis extension out grocery shopping with me!!".
Now, call me a radical left woke communist socialist marxist europoor lunatic... But personally I'd have thought having fewer absolute wankstains wandering around the place armed to the teeth would actually make somewhere a more pleasant place to live.
Evidently I just don't understand the great freedumb.
Semiautomatic penis extension… I’m totally going to use that. Brilliant!
And it makes a simple traffic stop way more complicated.
Yup. I like firearms from a historical and hobbyist perspective. But unfortunately the hobby is inundated with complete children who can't go pump gas in their suburb without a CCW and 2 spare mags.
Seeing otherwise neat guys/gals like hikock(sp?) who have interesting channels and knowledge, but then cease to function when visiting CA and having to not have a pistol on their belt is just so funny.
Dear Whole Foods: shoplifters will not read your no shoplifting signs or respect your shoplifting prohibitions.
Please allow me to shoplift.
To be clear, the "no guns" signs have a mix of legality depending on the state. Some places it's legally enforceable, some places its legally ignorable. To be clear, by enforceable I mean "If someone posts that sign and you ignore it, it's a misdemeanor offense if they call the cops". So not just a "you're trespassing and get kicked out" but you can get charged with a real criminal offense - even if they haven't asked you to leave yet.
Oh and before the gun nuts go "That sort of shit is what we'd expect from commiefornia"... it's actually a thing in TEXAS and Oklahoma and Florida - ya know - the gun toting states. In California it's only enforceable after they've asked you to leave (eg it doesn't really matter because they've tresspassed you anyways).
Keeping in mind that should any private establishment can set basically any rules they want, ask you to leave, for any reason, and they are well within their rights to do so.
Oh, I’m not questioning its legality. I’m saying that the pro gun argument won’t stop criminals is true of every crime and makes zero sense. Like, if you have speed limits that won’t stop speeding isn’t an argument against speed limits.
I'm a gun owner and I don't go to whole foods because I'm not rich.
Some people are so scared of everything all the time, it's got to be a mental disorder.
Prices will scare ya!!😆😆.
I'm a gun owner and a I can afford Whole Foods but I don't go there. I just don't care for the place.
Kindergarteners run off to school every day on a bus with no seat belts, attend classes with unvaccinated kids, and are ordered around by strange adults, all the while schools have become the #1 place where kids die from gunshots. Yet they aren't armed.
All I want is grown ass men to have the same courage as a 5yr old girl.
I specifically choose MY mass shooting locations based on local business gun rules, absolutely
Your good guy with a gun is far more likely to kill an innocent person than a shooter.
Or be mistaken for the bad guy, when the cops show up and have to determine WHO the bad guy is. And what if the bad guy then tries say 'Wait, I'm the GOOD guy just trying to shoot the bad guy!' in order to evade arrest?
I can just see it: a bunch of gun-totin' 'good guys' all start shooting at each other in an effort to take down the 'bad guy', because they can't figure out who the bad guy even is because they're all shooting at SOMEone else with a gun.
https://i.redd.it/flntxk9aj87g1.gif
Yup, RIP Johnny Hurley from Arvada Colorado who was killed by confused police after he killed the shooter
During the Vegas shooting, a bunch of idiots heard shots and started waving their guns around. No one could tell where the echoing shots were coming from, so everyone looked like a shooter. No one, including the police, knew where the shooting was ACTUALLY happening for a long time, as conflicting reports of people with guns made it sound like a coordinated attack simultaneously happening in multiple casinos. Everyone was running in every direction. Total chaos caused by idiots. Open carry states are ridiculous.
If nobody is running from the good guy with a gun... its a pretty good indication that they are the good guy.
Thats pretty basic deductive reasoning
Therein lies the problem with the "good guy with a gun" argument. Just because you're armed doesn't mean that you have the training or ability to take out a mass shooter. People are running, they're screaming, they're trying to hide, it's absolute chaos. Do people really think they're going to be capable of handling a situation like that just because they have a gun? It's not like going to the gun range. It's a dynamic situation that most people are not trained to handle.
A shocking number of people have taken these simulation classes where you bust through clearing rooms, so they are trained to some degree
It’s also why so many are hype for a civil war, they ARE training
And the people who make tons of money from running combat shooting courses like that are, ironically, some of the least sanguine about the idea that having a lot of armed people running around makes us all safer. (Hell, I very much doubt even that an armed society is a polite society … anybody who reads Beyond This Horizon can see just how ironically Heinlein meant it).
This is beside the point, but I love seeing someone use the word sanguine. It's one of my favorite words, and nobody ever uses it.
The majority of what needs to be learned is mental, specifically how to handle the mental stress of being in a situation where you or others could very possibly die if you make a wrong move. Consider the fact that almost 20 professionally trained police officers stood outside a classroom doing nothing - NOTHING! - for over an hour while there were children trapped inside with an active shooter.
Learning how to kick in a door and sweep a room (and if you're talking about those VR "training courses," this goes double) doesn't count for shit. In fact, it arguably makes things worse. Some guy that realizes he's wildly unprepared for the situation will give up far quicker than some dude who's convinced he's "trained" for it.
Yeah idk it all feels very hypothetical
Some people do great things if they’re lucky enough to
Dunno about those cops not doing anything other than that’s a shame, but it puts a hole right in the they’ve gotta be trained right argument
Some people will put themselves in danger, those dudes didn’t
I would argue that it doesn't put a hole in it so much as show that even regular cops aren't trained "right" in these scenarios. But it does put the lie to "I took a class, therefore I know exactly what to do and will do it."
That said, you are correct here. It IS all hypothetical. Nobody knows what they would do in any situation until they've actually faced it. You'll either panic or be like that guy in Australia (Ahmed al Ahmed, because he deserves to be named) and actually do something, armed or not. Recall also the three people who subdued the shooter in the Colorado Springs bar back in 2022 (Thomas James, Richard Fierro, and Drea Norman), all unarmed.
The fact is, you're either going to do something or you're not, and it has nothing to do with whether you have a gun. The only thing being armed and improperly trained does is increase the likelihood of additional victims. And unless you're on a SWAT team or in the military (and even then it's not guaranteed), you are improperly trained.
I’d tend to agree with that
I own a gun and think it’s an important right, but that’s the farthest I’d ever argue it
But yeah I mean my phone has to look at my face to read a text yet guns have effectively no real security from someone other than the owner operating them
Back to the point, full agree I don’t trust anyone with these things - I trust myself only the slightest, tiniest bit more than strangers because I care about safety and investing in learning how to just safely own tools
Plus where I live I don’t want to be unarmed running into large animals
Ironically, the fact that you basically said, "I barely trust myself" means that I would trust you a great deal more than I would trust somebody like this dude. It's whatever the opposite of Dunning-Kruger is.
And I get you about not wanting to be unarmed where there are lots of big animals. My dad has a friend in Wyoming who got attacked by a bear once. He survived, but still.
An encounter with a bear is true nightmare fuel Glad he made it!
Also I appreciate that, I lived in Texas and friend was like “do you want to buy this gun?”
I didn’t want to be like yo what the fuck so I said yes
"So I said yes" honestly cracked me up. Peak people-pleasing behavior.
"If they're lucky enough to"?
Some people try to do great things and it doesn’t work out
There’s an element of luck
Cops mess it up and kill unarmed people pretty routinely and they have a lot more practice than the average person.
After spending some time at a shooting range, it will become quite apparent that most "good guys with guns" couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat. They have trouble hitting a stationary piece of paper that's across the room, but they think they're going to take out some mass shooter when the shit hits the fan. Rambo fantasies from people who can't piss without hitting the toilet seat.
That assumes they’re not bringing their friend to teach them how to shoot … with a .44, resulting in a great deal of damage to the range’s ceiling.
To paraphrase that supposed Winston Churchill quote about the best argument against democracy being a 15-minute conversation with the average voter, the best argument against the right to keep,and bear arms is working for a month at the average American firing range open to the public.
I don’t like how you called me out there at the end
You're counting themselves.
We have the right to refuse service to anyone. It's called capitalism idiots.
Well, to be fair, you can’t refuse service to people for membership in a protected/suspect class, like race, creed, sex etc.
Sure you can, you just have to say it's against your religion, but only if your religion is a specific flavor of Christianity.
Nope. Years ago a federal district court ruled in Newman v. Piggie Park that the Free Exercise Clause does not give you the right to infringe the rights of your fellow citizens in the exercise of your rights. The Supreme Court upheld it four years later.
Is Target still allowing pharmacists to enforce their religion on patients picking up Plan B?
I was unaware of this … can you fill me in with a link or something?
The problem is that people lie and make up excuses. Subtle racism, classism, misogyny and other ways of discrimination are unfortunately the way many people operate.
At least with magas, the bigotry is out front so there is no doubt who you are dealing with.
Yes, they do that, there’s a whole body of case law around this called “mixed motive”.
Thank god we have this guy's amazing insight into the mind of mass shooters.
Last year I was at a kids play area where employees had to argue down a guy who wanted to open-carry his gun onto the trampolines. Personal preference, I would rather be killed by an evil man than a stupid one.
And how am I supposed to tell the difference between a criminal and a “responsible gun owner?” Remove guns from the equation at my grocery store, and I don’t have to worry about someone losing it out of aggravation and shooting people. I don’t trust the sanity of most people these days, especially the louder gun owners who are on average pretty paranoid.
The sad part is that it doesn't even have to be someone who is angry and shooting people on purpose.
There has been more than one instance in my local area of people improperly carrying their guns and getting killed by toddlers (usually moms who let their gun rattle around in the purse they let their kid play with) or accidentally shooting themselves when they have an unsecured gun in a pocket or purse. Had a grocery store shut down for a while after an older woman's gun went off at the checkstand. It didn't hurt anyone, luckily, but they had to do a full investigation anyway.
I just don't trust the average person to be properly responsible about carrying these things. I know there are people out there that actually treat them like the weapons they are, who secure them properly and follow all the precautions. But there are quite a few running around who just...don't.
People carry, and yet no mass shooting has been stopped by a "good guy with a gun".
I mean it DOES happen, just not as often as gun nuts think it does.
If you are emotionally distraught by a sign, maybe you shouldn't have a gun.
This person does seem a little unstable
Jesus! These are the people that want to eliminate the department of education!
“where all the mass shootings happen”.
Rest in peace to victims of the 2022 sea bass massacre.
This belongs in r/shitamericanssay
I love how these people think they'll be helpful during a mass shooting rather than a liability.
I think of Dan Bilzerian, that pro poker player and faux-ex Navy SEAL whose father was a corporate raider during the ‘80s later convicted of several felonies.
He used to post pictures of all his guns on his social media with the caption that “my biggest fear if someone robs my house is that I won’t be able to decide which gun I should shoot them with.” Heh heh.
Well.
He was caught outside during the Las Vegas shootings, and had a gun on him, but knew it was too small to effectively fire back. He was also recording some video for his social media at the time, on which he recorded (since-deleted) footage of him going back to his apartment to … get the right gun and the right ammo for the situation, a subject which he began discussing earnestly. As he went back he walked past wounded people begging for help, some of whom may later have died.
And by the time he got back with the right gun and the right ammo, the shooting was over.
This country is cooked
I'm so tired.
I wish I could say I'm shocked, but I have literally seen someone open carrying with a hip holster at a local grocery store...
I do not recall seeing anyone at a local grocery store doing it but I did see someone at a fast food restaurant near where I work open carrying.
Given the statistics of that area of town, I am not sure I blame them even if I prefer to carry concealed.
Well. At least that’s better than open-carrying with a thigh or-God forbid-chest holster.
some people will still go in with a gun if there is a sign or not. That's the thing about it being 'concealed', most people would never know it. That sign is merely for legal reasons for enforcement reasons which would legally allow that company to have you criminally trespassed off the property for having a gun on their property (their PRIVATE property) if you were caught carrying. Responsible gun owners would do it, and take the risk of being caught, and they would be more likely to be the ones that would be able to properly conceal it without out anyone else knowing they were carrying
They also would't shop there during Covid because ofvthe madk mandates. What'll they ever do without your patronage?
Worrying about mass shootings in a supermarket is a normal thing in the USA, but literally nowhere else on the planet.
You guys are so cooked.
I can't tell if this was written by a 12 year old Trump Supporter or a 50 year old Trump Supporter....
Does it matter? They share the same mental age.
I'm all broken up about this person's rights
I live in a open carry state but it's still illegal to carry guns into banks, government buildings, and establishments that sell alcohol.
All I'm hearing is I need my gun to buy some milk, bread and toilet paper because gosh darn it this is America! And in America you can possibly shoot someone while you pick up your daily l list and gosh dang it if you tell me I can't carry in your store well then screw you.
Seriously life isn't an action movie where the random civilian or former security/cop/military American with a gun can just magically hit every bad guy target without ever hitting any random poor civilian. This is real life. I live in Canada and the general rule in most provinces including mine is unless you are police or hunters in a legit hunting spot outdoors with a license you don't carry a gun especially not in stores. Somehow it's never once bothered me that I can't walk into a random store and have a gun on me for protection lest some unhinged psycho come in to start shooting. Because even if I did have a gun whose to say I can't misinterpret a situation and shoot someone with a gun not even using their gun at all? Whose to say the police might not interpret me to be the shooter and shoot me? What if I try to stop a person and I hit some random innocent person taking their life now I need to live with that guilt because I wanted to be John Wayne or Clint Eastwood? Truth lots of people are a lousy shot especially in a busy scary chaotic scene with people including innocent people trying to flee. You won't do shit most likely unless you are a trained person and even they can mess up too.
They’ve had a mass shooting on a military base FFS.
Whole Foods keeps a couple of grenades behind the raw juice booth just in case the shit goes down.
people commit mass shootings at places where guns are banned so no place should ban guns in case someone commits a mass shooting at a place where guns are banned bc people will not commit mass shootings at a place where guns aren’t banned so no gun bans means no mass shootings bc everyone will have a gun that they could theoretically use to commit a mass shooting in a place with a gun ban but won’t bc there is no place where guns are banned so in conclusion more guns means fewer mass shootings.
am i getting it right?? or did i miss something??
Why do they always use so many unnecessary words to convey the message that "I am a terrified man-child who believes everyone with skin darker than mine is out to kill, rob,or otherwise maim me so I need my pew-pew to feel like a big strong man when in public or even sitting at home thinking of being in public?"
Yes. Make you have your rifle, getting through the jungle of Starbucks.
But his pooor, pwecious peepee extender!
Well, it is expensive.
Cry more.
🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
Following this logic, mass shootings should be common in countries with fewer or no guns, yet in reality they are only common in the USA.
I mean there have been a number of high profile shootings at grocery stores recently….
If I see a no weapons" sign I leave my sidearm secured in my car. I do not post a negative review online.
Maybe I am too patient.
Schools are also gun free zones. Fortunately there are never school shootings because of this.
Wait, aren't you agreeing with OOP? Some gun nuts have advocated for arming teachers/school administrators in case of an active shooter.
Bruh 💀 have your award for unfortunate linguistic excellence 🏆 r/murderedbywords
lol, there are more guns than people in Texas, and it seems like they have mass shootings constantly!
Fake review, just some moron that wants make something out of nothing.
Better say "mass shootings happen where they don't allow guns" twice so they really get it
Something conservatives will never understand is that private businesses are allowed to deny entry for whatever reason they want. It’s private property. This is just like when we tried to explain to them that businesses requiring masking during the pandemic was NOT illegal
The guy in Australia took the guy down unarmed.
Doesn't Whole Foods have their own snipers?
These guys want so badly to encounter a mass shooter so that they can play hero…
I am so glad I live in a country where we don’t need “no gun” signs. Because we’d be like, no shit.
Concealed carry means keep it Concealed. I carry at whole foods all the time.
The store taking away their rights... by the reviewer choosing to go to a different store after seeing the sign? If anything they are flexing their rights by going somewhere else.
Gun people (at least the variety in this review) in the USA seem to have so many fantasies about guns that almost never match reality.
- If someone does a home invasion they will spend 5 minutes banging and crashing downstairs so I can arm up and ambush them
- If someone suddenly mugs me in public the gun I keep concealed will save me
- And in this case, any area that freely encourages carrying guns is extremely safe because no mass shooter would ever mess with all those good guys with guns
Hey. Some of us like guns but dont carry them everywhere and go to the range like civilized people.
I work at a healthcare clinic and we had a guy arguing the same thing about a year ago.
He brought it to a procedure that he had to take a decent amount of Valium for....
We cancelled his procedure and let him know he could reschedule when he decides to leave the firearm at home.
I used to work in a healthcare clinic in billing. It was a bad part of town and i carried every day. Thankfully never needed it but the joke was if they got robbed again they would key my extension and we would not try to disarm them. Just stick them in the MRI room. But its only funny if you dont think about the MRI magnet is not actually gonna yank metallic stuff out of peoples hands unless they try to dive through the ring.
And all of us at the Whole Food clapped enthusiastically!!!! Please stay away!!!!
There was a mass shooting in Australia and one of the shooters got disarmed barehandedly
"Only people with ill intent would bring a gun into the store with this sign" my brother in christ that's literally the fucking point. Now the people in there aren't wasting precious seconds trying to figure out if the person with a gun is dangerous or not and if God forbid a shooting does happen, there aren't a bunch of panicked untrained yahoos adding extra bullets to the mayhem and making it harder for vicfims and police to identify the actual gunmen
You are quite literally recommended to never hold a gun in a shooting situation, even if it's the one you confiscated from the shooter, because the police are more likely to shoot you thinking you're the attacker.
It should be a requirement that in order to obtain a concealed carry license, that you have to be tested to able to accurately hit both stationary and moving targets (in order to avoid accidents), and that they have to take and pass active shooter training along with with a follow up class and test every 6 or 12 months in order to keep the concealed carry license. I grew up being taught gun Saftey, my dad has a concealed carry license but when he knows it’s an inappropriate place to have it, it goes into his car gun safe or stays at home in the main gun safe, he has taken active shooter safety training for if he isn’t carrying and for if he is. I don’t trust most people with guns unless I know for a fact that they’ve gone through hunter saftey/gun safety classes. I’ve had people come over with a gun on them and I will immediately ask that they remove the magazine along with the one in the chamber and to please set it down where we both can see it so I feel comfortable and safe in my own place. I am truly terrified of guns and what they can do but I also know how to properly handle one and shoot it if needed.
I don’t live in an open carry state so haven’t seen the no gun signs. Can anyone from those states testify if the “no gun” places ACTUALLY get targeted more? Seems like it wouldn’t matter at all
Yikes. What did you do?
I try not to be rude about illiteracy but it doesn't give me confidence in someone's responsibility with regard to gun ownership and handling, if they can barely write. I wouldn't trust this guy to read the room and figure out who to protect and who to protect them from.
My coworker doesn’t shop at Costco because they don’t allow her to open carry. Lmao. What a wacky hill to die on.
If you need to be armed just to go the grocery store, you're in the wrong country, not the wrong store.
Americans these days
As an American myself, shit like this boggles my mind.
“It’s a part of our constitution 🤡”
The difference between a criminal and a "responsible" gun owner is a very bad day.
If you don't have it, you can't use it.
Just ask William Foster.
Mass shootings happen in areas where no rational, sane person would bring a gun. So if you have a gun at any of those places: congratulations! You’re the opposite of a rational, sane person.
What?? That makes no sense. Delusional!!
I conceal carry everywhere.
If you do it right no one knows you’re carrying.
I know. Hence “concealed”.
A gun shoukd be carried everywhere legally allowed. Violence happens EVERYWHERE. And criminals prefer victims that aren't able to adequately defend themselves. Police aren't obligated to protect you (yes, there has been court cases upholding this) and the only person you have us yourself.
So, why wouldn't you use the mist effective tool to protect yourself???
Just hide behind the potatos, Margie.i think he is only here for the quebeers and soupicans. /s
I can’t think of a single scenario where a Good Samaritan with a gun stopped a mass shooting. I’m sure they exist, but few and far between. You’re more likely to hurt yourself or someone else by accident than you are to use it for self defense.
As a response gun owner: I don’t carry my weapon every where because I’m a scared little bitch
So, did he see no gun signs, or "no gun" signs?...
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small unit energy
The thing is people carrying guns don’t engage mass shooters, they run and hide. I know, I know they have some fantasy of being Rambo and taking out the bad guy to save the day, but they don’t. In a country that has more guns than people there are very few incidents where a bystander just pulls out a gun and stops the bad guy. I don’t know of any but I’m sure someone somewhere may have done it but if they did it’s rare. Instead, if someone steps in they are usually unarmed and tackles them as the guy in Australia did.
So you're definitely thinking the next mass shooting will be at Whole Foods? My dude, I'm pretty sure anyone with the mindset thinking about carrying out a mass casualty doesn't start with a grocery store?
This is stupid because if you actually look at the doors, many many shops have similar signs. Most chain grocery stores have this. Hell, many Walmarts have the same signage now and as a corporate has significantly curtailed their sales.
If your personal policy is to not shop anywhere guns are not allowed, that is totally your right as an American. However, you will be finding it very challenging to procure food.
But uh, yea, also ... most mass shootings are not at grocery stores. Statistically speaking.
Another Excited States Of American snowflake gun-nut shitting themselves publicly.