Alternatively, a citizen scoring system could be implemented, where a citizen with a negative score would be excluded from society (this is how China has managed its citizens, and my country will follow suit).
They make their arguments seem moral and compassionate, and when you question them and ask about the logistics of their promises, they insult you and call you a bootlicker. That’s how you win the minds of young and impressionable people, by appealing to their morality and not discussing the facts.
It's a bit of a strawman too, as this isn't some binary one or the other BS. I'm anti-communist, not anti mixed-market with some level of command economy where it's economically feasible/efficient.
They treat it like some sort of one drop rule, where if you are anything other than 100% on the commie train, then you are embracing some extreme version of capitalism where we are ruled by oligarchs, effectively serfs, and cheering on the maximization of wealth.
Im completely anti mixed-market since the government is never efficent, not even in the thing they are supposed to be best at, wealth extraction from the productive.
That's nice. But you are the radical exception, not the average person who is fundamentally ok with mixed-market capitalism.
I'm not a fan of either extreme, yours or the communist.
(edit to add) and even Hayek was open to a mixed market where it made sense, healthcare for example. Just to emphasize that you have an extreme position.
Yeah and the average person is seemnigly fine with their rights being violated, energy prices increasing and corporations consolidating into a few large ones. Does that mean its completely fine? Fuck no.
In practice that system has never existed and never will and arguing for it is just the right wing version of 'true communism has never been tried' and deserves as much respect.
Yeah but it‘s what quite often implied. Especially with Anarchists. It was the main shtick of Proudhon.
Most small anarchist workers cooperatives that focus on distributing REVOLUTIONARY agendas are usually just small business bookstores and similar stuff
You know, sometimes i'm baffled that people legitimately don't even try to see other ideologies. Like, more social programs? Maybe research your local Democratic Socialist, Liberal or even Centrist candidate and their proposals instead of praying for the return of Stalin and gulags.
Like, in my third world country. There are a few of those but their proposals are so horrible i've decided to support a green party in the upcoming elections because at the very least they had more concrete goals. Isn't that the duty of a citizen?
Every time I see something like this I think about how we could’ve ended it all in 1945 by skull fucking the Soviets while they were down 50 years early.
And for that reason we have to counter with facts and examples. We didn't need social programs for affordable healthcare, we had franternal organizations that helped their members and also we had community and a sense of belonging from them, and churches. We didn't need socialism for better working conditions, pay, or hours... we had Henry Ford being competitive by offering these things to get more and better quality workers. We didn't need it for homes that are good and affordable, we had better zoning and restrictions back then that let us get affordable and nice houses.
Lol if communists believed that “communism” was merely “wealth redistribution and taking care of poor people” then why do they talk about Social Democrats as if they’re the enemy? Oh that’s right, it’s ‘cause they consider anyone who doesn’t think exactly and precisely as they do to be fucking evil.
Communism literaly dosent sound in theory let alone in practice. Its a system where you need a state to supress human freedom but also a stateless society at the same time.
Socialist countries of the past failed to supress the black market even with their full control over the citizens. How do they expect to do the same with literaly nothing?
Dawg, that's just what the rich and powerful have done literally all of history. Just look at all the human changes in religions that are supposed to just be "the word of god". Doesn't matter what name it took, this is what those in power have always done.
Edit: Also infinite growth is quite literally impossible as that one guy stated. Carbon is recycled within the universe for a reason.
Yeah but I don't think anyone talks about infinite growth, just exponential because as technology gets better and better we can use less and less for more.
Communists “”take care of the poor”” by subjugating them
Or by starving and working them to death as de facto slaves, but its fine in this case cause they had the right vibes or something
Communism is slavery proving it is a lie
Can't have any poor people if they've all starved to death.
baaskaap in its finest
Alternatively, a citizen scoring system could be implemented, where a citizen with a negative score would be excluded from society (this is how China has managed its citizens, and my country will follow suit).
"Take care of them" but like, Al Capone said it.
They make their arguments seem moral and compassionate, and when you question them and ask about the logistics of their promises, they insult you and call you a bootlicker. That’s how you win the minds of young and impressionable people, by appealing to their morality and not discussing the facts.
I think this is how they got me to hear them out.
"Capitalism doesn't even sound good in theory."
It's a bit of a strawman too, as this isn't some binary one or the other BS. I'm anti-communist, not anti mixed-market with some level of command economy where it's economically feasible/efficient.
They treat it like some sort of one drop rule, where if you are anything other than 100% on the commie train, then you are embracing some extreme version of capitalism where we are ruled by oligarchs, effectively serfs, and cheering on the maximization of wealth.
Im completely anti mixed-market since the government is never efficent, not even in the thing they are supposed to be best at, wealth extraction from the productive.
That's nice. But you are the radical exception, not the average person who is fundamentally ok with mixed-market capitalism.
I'm not a fan of either extreme, yours or the communist.
(edit to add) and even Hayek was open to a mixed market where it made sense, healthcare for example. Just to emphasize that you have an extreme position.
Yeah and the average person is seemnigly fine with their rights being violated, energy prices increasing and corporations consolidating into a few large ones. Does that mean its completely fine? Fuck no.
In practice that system has never existed and never will and arguing for it is just the right wing version of 'true communism has never been tried' and deserves as much respect.
They take care for poor people by seizing their grain and forcing them into state controlled farms
"Wealth distribution and taking care of the poor" so basically just a welfare state.
When they say the workers they usually mean small business owners, the unemployed and ivy league humanities students lmfao.
Small business owners are almost never pro-communist
Yeah but it‘s what quite often implied. Especially with Anarchists. It was the main shtick of Proudhon. Most small anarchist workers cooperatives that focus on distributing REVOLUTIONARY agendas are usually just small business bookstores and similar stuff
You know, sometimes i'm baffled that people legitimately don't even try to see other ideologies. Like, more social programs? Maybe research your local Democratic Socialist, Liberal or even Centrist candidate and their proposals instead of praying for the return of Stalin and gulags.
Like, in my third world country. There are a few of those but their proposals are so horrible i've decided to support a green party in the upcoming elections because at the very least they had more concrete goals. Isn't that the duty of a citizen?
Every time I see something like this I think about how we could’ve ended it all in 1945 by skull fucking the Soviets while they were down 50 years early.
that is not communism, you do not need communism for that
And for that reason we have to counter with facts and examples. We didn't need social programs for affordable healthcare, we had franternal organizations that helped their members and also we had community and a sense of belonging from them, and churches. We didn't need socialism for better working conditions, pay, or hours... we had Henry Ford being competitive by offering these things to get more and better quality workers. We didn't need it for homes that are good and affordable, we had better zoning and restrictions back then that let us get affordable and nice houses.
Lol if communists believed that “communism” was merely “wealth redistribution and taking care of poor people” then why do they talk about Social Democrats as if they’re the enemy? Oh that’s right, it’s ‘cause they consider anyone who doesn’t think exactly and precisely as they do to be fucking evil.
Communism literaly dosent sound in theory let alone in practice. Its a system where you need a state to supress human freedom but also a stateless society at the same time.
Socialist countries of the past failed to supress the black market even with their full control over the citizens. How do they expect to do the same with literaly nothing?
https://preview.redd.it/4bpnrfu4px8g1.jpeg?width=690&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75fe3b0971b34c6dcc6be92ae807136695d380b4
Dawg, that's just what the rich and powerful have done literally all of history. Just look at all the human changes in religions that are supposed to just be "the word of god". Doesn't matter what name it took, this is what those in power have always done.
Edit: Also infinite growth is quite literally impossible as that one guy stated. Carbon is recycled within the universe for a reason.
Yeah but I don't think anyone talks about infinite growth, just exponential because as technology gets better and better we can use less and less for more.
https://preview.redd.it/x9zv31ueot8g1.jpeg?width=407&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c10dd4b7123cb02074b10c20c40d5adec9d4cf98
And this is why I stick with r/MiddleGenZ where they do not tolerate shit like this