As someone who isn’t Jewish, I find it abhorrent to call any Jew the same people who exterminated half their population, even if you completely disagree with them. Weaponising that trauma helps no one. It’s to inflict as much pain as possible and has nothing to do with Palestine.
It's a satisfying narrative. The victim becoming the abuser, oppressed becoming the oppressor, is a common media trope for a reason: it's interesting and compelling. The average Pro-Palestine slacktivist is very disengaged from the actual conflict, that's more than apparent in the way they treat neither Israelis nor Palestinians as actual individual human beings, reducing them into a very simplistic "good guys vs bad guys" archetype. It's because they consume the news and happenings of the I/P conflict in a very detached way through the internet, that above everything else, serves to provoke their emotional needs, whether to be irrationally hateful without consequence, play savior to the poor browns, etc. In other words: they view the I/P conflict as if it were a piece of media, it's escapism for them. Thus the "victim becomes oppressor" trope is a satisfying one to apply.
They've always been mad that we "get to have the Holocaust". The online leftism moral purity circlejerk operates fundamentally on the idea of an omnicause + oppression olympics, in which the most oppressed is the most justified without any pesky nuance to pollute that notion. See the thing is they basically now have their ultimate "good guys vs bad guys" conflict to hyperfixate on with I/P, Russia vs Ukraine is "white on white" so who cares, in Sudan the perpetrators are Arabs which are uwu oppwessed so that's obviously off the board, I/P on paper is the perfect, most rewarding conflict to engage in if you're someone with an absurdly simplistic and antiintellectual worldview. "White colonizers" took over the land of the poor brown arabs and are now "genociding" them just for existing. It's so perfectly braindead if it wasn't for one tiny thorn in their side. Jews have the trump card in the oppression olympics: the Holocaust. The Holocaust who everyone wants because who cares about things like generational trauma and your global population literally never recovering fully, you get those sweet sweet persecution points baybee. They've been coveting it for years, even much before the conflict, as they slowly take more and more emphasis away from the Jews when it comes to the Holocaust and insist that it was "actually about the queers/disableds/poc/etc" (groups all persecuted because the Nazis blamed the Jews for their existence. as a queer disabled Jew I would have gotten gassed for being a Jew before they even heard the rest). By painting Jews as the new Nazis they not only get that satisfaction I mentioned in my earlier point, they also get to further strip us of our oppression points and paint us as the new villains. We're an inconvenient minority now after all. Finally now everyone else can be oppressed without the Jews hogging it, because now we know that they really were the filthy Zionist Globalists all along. But y'know. In a leftist anti-nazi way.
A. We have agency. They HATE that. See there is nothing more privileged slacktivists love than playing white savior. If we were still wholly in the diaspora we, at the end of the day, would be reliant on gentiles to decide our fate. Israel existing is basically us saying "You have failed us. We are not giving you another chance. We will protect ourselves now." and oh GOD do they hate that.
B. We "conflict" with another oppressed minority. We stand against the omnicause by Israel being against Palestine, which currently sits at the very top of the omnicause throne. The Palestinians simply can't be in the wrong at all because they're too brown and noble savage. We all know Arabs are indigenous to literally the entire Middle East. If another minority looks even slightly paler on average (MAYBE BECAUSE YOU KEPT PUSHING US THE FUCK OUT OF OUR HOMELAND) they simply must be an invading empire. Ignore the Middle East Arab to Jew ratio that's not important.
C. That's also the thing: paler on average. Most Mizrahi darker skinned Jews live in Israel (give it up for the white supremacist ethnostate everybody) so most westerners only ever see lighter skinned ashkies and like. We simply CAN'T be an ethnic group right. Ethnic groups are the browns and the blacks and the asians (races, not ethnicities mind you), hey what is an ethnoreligion anyway? We're oppressed to an extent, but at the end of the day we're only a religion. Religion is not only unnecessary but discardable. We're just funky whites that a few intolerant people hate for reading a different testament. Skill issue on our part.
(Part of how they don't realize we're an ethnicity is that nobody realizes how LITTLE of us are. Christianity and Islam has believers in the billions. There are 15.8 million Jews worldwide. We make up like 0.2% of the global population. We're an ethnicity, a tribe and a family. We're only seen as one of the "big three" religions is because the other two based all of their stuff of of ours, a fact nobody wants to address.)
Because Palestine as a political entity has no historical or even philosophical basis, so to justify the destruction of Israel they need to delegitimise the entire concept of Jewish self-determination and the idea of a Jewish state. Considering how utterly reprehensible pretty much every single Arab government is and has been, the only way to achieve this is to paint the Jewish state as inherently evil, and to do that they need to remove the basis for its legitimacy, i.e. historic persecution of the Jews and the Holocaust.
This is why you see most pro-Palestine groups try to instrumentalise the Holocaust and are obsessed with the term "genocide". They need to rewrite the history of Jewish suffering in order to portray Jews as villains and Israel as illegitimate, and watering down terms like "genocide" and the Holocaust, conflating Jews with Nazis and portraying the war in Gaza as the worst in history is part of that strategy, even though it has zero historical basis.
If you're wondering how this started, look at the Soviets and the identical propaganda they were using in the 60s and 70s.
Because the communist conspiracy theory about Imperialism is essentially identical to the Nazis conspiracy about the Jewish Cabal. Plus both sides attract low IQ antisocial dipshit personalities who require a scapegoat to blame for their own failures.
i'm reaching adhd burnout, so sorry if i'm getting too needlessly nihilistic and philosophical here, but i think that in the end it's just us vs. them with a whole lot of populism.
Think about how cognitively lazy humans are overall. Just think back to the most recent pandemic. Remember drinking and/or injecting bleach as a cure for a viral infection? I'm hoping that this analogy makes sense to more people than just me, but what i'm trying to say, is that people want simple step-by-step solutions to very difficult problems, regardless of whether they make any sense whatsoever.
Now when you have to think about all of the horrors and injustices in the world, which is easier?
1) Understanding that the world is complex, conflicts have been going on for generations, resources are finite and the existing structures are a constant battle between altruism and greediness of human nature. That there's so much wrong that has been done throughout history, that there's no clear hero and no clear villain.
2) Believing that there's a set of people, who are in control of everything and they're evil and everybody else is good and if these people were to disappear, all of the world's problems would disappear.
It's pretty easy to just have an enemy, no? Hating is much much easier than acknowledging and accepting that the world is too complex to fully unwrap. It's a classic us vs. them. You have an enemy, you can put all of your negative emotion onto the enemy. It's so streamlined.
And if there's a group of people, who are different, but not quite different enough as to where they'd stand out and the conspiracy of a hidden mastermind would fall apart, then that's your pick for a scapegoat.
And whether the enemy is picked through a singular step of ethnic prejudice on one side or through a multi-step routine of mental gymnastics of "they're the secret bourgeoisie" on the other, it's still a simple conclusion.
Does that mean that we're also not allowed to compare the Russian government to the Nazis? After all, the Nazis tried to exterminate the Russians as well. According to your logic, does that mean that comparing the Russian government to the Nazis counts as anti-Russian bigotry?
I really wonder what they think the Nazis did wrong when they make that comparison. You could be rather more inflammatory in noting Netanyahu sucking up to Putin and cribbing notes from him in how to fight his wars in a way his ancestors who fled Russia would be ashamed of with trivial e-oh, right. Tankies.
If I had to guess, I’m thinking they’re poking at the point that Israel is committing a modern genocide despite their main religion being the biggest victim of one of the largest genocides in history.
Lemme make this analogy for the giga brain geniuses replying. If someone from a gang in your city does a mass shooting in the next city over, does that now justify the other city to kill 70,000 of your population while turning the majority of your city's infrastructure to a gravel parking lot, simply because the gang of the mass shooter is in the same city as you?
Urban warfare is hell. It doesn’t help that Hamas doesn’t wear visually distinctive uniforms and hides among the population. This does not justify airstrikes on buildings though, nor their mistreatment of prisoners.
The videos of it happening all over different various sources. When you google it, the best defense is "Yeah those were actually mines, not disguised food", go ahead look er up.
Even google AI, which is now aligned with the US military has it as "Claims have circulated that Israeli forces have disguised explosives as food cans and other civilian objects in Gaza; however, fact-checks have debunked some of these claims, identifying the alleged 'food cans' as mine igniter boxes or containers."
“The legal term “genocide” refers to certain acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.”
So when Palestine just becomes Israel, that’s actually just another thanksgiving happy fun time farming land. Honestly, you’re right the Gaza Strip now looks like a big ass gravel parking lot because that’s just modern design.
OHOHOHOHO I'm sorry, I know where you're coming from sorry... I meant war against mostly defenseless civilians who happened to be trapped in that area, my bad
The issue is that I cant find any other examples of genocide where there were 200km+ of tunnels beneath the land being bombed but the ruling government wouldn't share it with their civillians, effectively complicit in their own 'genocide'.
I mean I'm not gonna sit here and defend HAMAS lmfao, they're dogshit authoritarian assholes who haven't let an election happen in 20 years. But I would ask if you would be fine getting killed over your governments decisions, even as a veteran I wouldn't be.
Nope, I dont think anyone would be. But the fact that it's happening massively complicates things, including the ability to label the conflict a genocide. And its horrific that most of the aid aimed at the civillians who have the right to peaceful, prosperous lives, ends up in the hands of Hamas.
Ah, you doing the destiny thing, I mean I'm down to call it an ethnic cleansing instead if you wish. Regardless, I'm just trying to point out how obviously awful the situation is, call it whatever, it's horrific
But we aren't. There is no genocide in Gaza. -Their population has increased during the "genocide". About 2/3 of the European Jewish population was murdered in 6 years. Most of the remaining 1/3 fled. Our numbers in Europe will likely never recover.
That wouldn't pass any fact check out there. I would rather trust Amnesty International, the Red Cross and the UN over an obviously biased source. How does the population increase when Israel murder tens of thousands of women and children, flatten everything, and while Doctors Without Borders are reporting babies dying due to exposure.
Good old classic horseshoe theory
oh my god...
Because people are very anti semetic
As someone who isn’t Jewish, I find it abhorrent to call any Jew the same people who exterminated half their population, even if you completely disagree with them. Weaponising that trauma helps no one. It’s to inflict as much pain as possible and has nothing to do with Palestine.
The jews dont like it much either tbh
Because commies and nazis are the same!
Because pseudo-intellectuals will always come up with some bullshit academic reason to say two things that aren't comparable are the same thing.
‘If you don't like Nazis, they tell you that they're all Nazis. If you do like Nazis, they tell you that they're all Jews.’
—Timothy Snyder
Communism is very often anti semitic
and neo Nazism, the most common form of facsism, has it as one of its main ideological points.
OK so. 1.
It's a satisfying narrative. The victim becoming the abuser, oppressed becoming the oppressor, is a common media trope for a reason: it's interesting and compelling. The average Pro-Palestine slacktivist is very disengaged from the actual conflict, that's more than apparent in the way they treat neither Israelis nor Palestinians as actual individual human beings, reducing them into a very simplistic "good guys vs bad guys" archetype. It's because they consume the news and happenings of the I/P conflict in a very detached way through the internet, that above everything else, serves to provoke their emotional needs, whether to be irrationally hateful without consequence, play savior to the poor browns, etc. In other words: they view the I/P conflict as if it were a piece of media, it's escapism for them. Thus the "victim becomes oppressor" trope is a satisfying one to apply.
2.
They've always been mad that we "get to have the Holocaust". The online leftism moral purity circlejerk operates fundamentally on the idea of an omnicause + oppression olympics, in which the most oppressed is the most justified without any pesky nuance to pollute that notion. See the thing is they basically now have their ultimate "good guys vs bad guys" conflict to hyperfixate on with I/P, Russia vs Ukraine is "white on white" so who cares, in Sudan the perpetrators are Arabs which are uwu oppwessed so that's obviously off the board, I/P on paper is the perfect, most rewarding conflict to engage in if you're someone with an absurdly simplistic and antiintellectual worldview. "White colonizers" took over the land of the poor brown arabs and are now "genociding" them just for existing. It's so perfectly braindead if it wasn't for one tiny thorn in their side. Jews have the trump card in the oppression olympics: the Holocaust. The Holocaust who everyone wants because who cares about things like generational trauma and your global population literally never recovering fully, you get those sweet sweet persecution points baybee. They've been coveting it for years, even much before the conflict, as they slowly take more and more emphasis away from the Jews when it comes to the Holocaust and insist that it was "actually about the queers/disableds/poc/etc" (groups all persecuted because the Nazis blamed the Jews for their existence. as a queer disabled Jew I would have gotten gassed for being a Jew before they even heard the rest). By painting Jews as the new Nazis they not only get that satisfaction I mentioned in my earlier point, they also get to further strip us of our oppression points and paint us as the new villains. We're an inconvenient minority now after all. Finally now everyone else can be oppressed without the Jews hogging it, because now we know that they really were the filthy Zionist Globalists all along. But y'know. In a leftist anti-nazi way.
More on "inconvenient minority":
A. We have agency. They HATE that. See there is nothing more privileged slacktivists love than playing white savior. If we were still wholly in the diaspora we, at the end of the day, would be reliant on gentiles to decide our fate. Israel existing is basically us saying "You have failed us. We are not giving you another chance. We will protect ourselves now." and oh GOD do they hate that.
B. We "conflict" with another oppressed minority. We stand against the omnicause by Israel being against Palestine, which currently sits at the very top of the omnicause throne. The Palestinians simply can't be in the wrong at all because they're too brown and noble savage. We all know Arabs are indigenous to literally the entire Middle East. If another minority looks even slightly paler on average (MAYBE BECAUSE YOU KEPT PUSHING US THE FUCK OUT OF OUR HOMELAND) they simply must be an invading empire. Ignore the Middle East Arab to Jew ratio that's not important.
C. That's also the thing: paler on average. Most Mizrahi darker skinned Jews live in Israel (give it up for the white supremacist ethnostate everybody) so most westerners only ever see lighter skinned ashkies and like. We simply CAN'T be an ethnic group right. Ethnic groups are the browns and the blacks and the asians (races, not ethnicities mind you), hey what is an ethnoreligion anyway? We're oppressed to an extent, but at the end of the day we're only a religion. Religion is not only unnecessary but discardable. We're just funky whites that a few intolerant people hate for reading a different testament. Skill issue on our part.
(Part of how they don't realize we're an ethnicity is that nobody realizes how LITTLE of us are. Christianity and Islam has believers in the billions. There are 15.8 million Jews worldwide. We make up like 0.2% of the global population. We're an ethnicity, a tribe and a family. We're only seen as one of the "big three" religions is because the other two based all of their stuff of of ours, a fact nobody wants to address.)
Sorry for multiple text walls I have been continuously upset and losing all hope for the future for the past 2 years 🫶
Thoroughly enjoyed and agree with your take (queer disabled jews unite). Thank you for taking the time ☺️
Because Palestine as a political entity has no historical or even philosophical basis, so to justify the destruction of Israel they need to delegitimise the entire concept of Jewish self-determination and the idea of a Jewish state. Considering how utterly reprehensible pretty much every single Arab government is and has been, the only way to achieve this is to paint the Jewish state as inherently evil, and to do that they need to remove the basis for its legitimacy, i.e. historic persecution of the Jews and the Holocaust.
This is why you see most pro-Palestine groups try to instrumentalise the Holocaust and are obsessed with the term "genocide". They need to rewrite the history of Jewish suffering in order to portray Jews as villains and Israel as illegitimate, and watering down terms like "genocide" and the Holocaust, conflating Jews with Nazis and portraying the war in Gaza as the worst in history is part of that strategy, even though it has zero historical basis.
If you're wondering how this started, look at the Soviets and the identical propaganda they were using in the 60s and 70s.
Because it’s about causing pain and getting a reaction. It’s not about making an apt comparison.
So they can justify their Antisemitism
Communism and Nazism aren't about coherent visions of the world. Both ideologies are obsessed with scapegoats. Jews just happen to be convenient.
It’s one word retardism
https://preview.redd.it/w5tm047bqm8g1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c1aa0291846d07bfb5c89984b839457ff69ab01
Because the communist conspiracy theory about Imperialism is essentially identical to the Nazis conspiracy about the Jewish Cabal. Plus both sides attract low IQ antisocial dipshit personalities who require a scapegoat to blame for their own failures.
i'm reaching adhd burnout, so sorry if i'm getting too needlessly nihilistic and philosophical here, but i think that in the end it's just us vs. them with a whole lot of populism.
Think about how cognitively lazy humans are overall. Just think back to the most recent pandemic. Remember drinking and/or injecting bleach as a cure for a viral infection? I'm hoping that this analogy makes sense to more people than just me, but what i'm trying to say, is that people want simple step-by-step solutions to very difficult problems, regardless of whether they make any sense whatsoever.
Now when you have to think about all of the horrors and injustices in the world, which is easier?
1) Understanding that the world is complex, conflicts have been going on for generations, resources are finite and the existing structures are a constant battle between altruism and greediness of human nature. That there's so much wrong that has been done throughout history, that there's no clear hero and no clear villain.
2) Believing that there's a set of people, who are in control of everything and they're evil and everybody else is good and if these people were to disappear, all of the world's problems would disappear.
It's pretty easy to just have an enemy, no? Hating is much much easier than acknowledging and accepting that the world is too complex to fully unwrap. It's a classic us vs. them. You have an enemy, you can put all of your negative emotion onto the enemy. It's so streamlined.
And if there's a group of people, who are different, but not quite different enough as to where they'd stand out and the conspiracy of a hidden mastermind would fall apart, then that's your pick for a scapegoat.
And whether the enemy is picked through a singular step of ethnic prejudice on one side or through a multi-step routine of mental gymnastics of "they're the secret bourgeoisie" on the other, it's still a simple conclusion.
tl;dr: Hating is easy. Thinking is hard.
In the framework of human relationships, this is an example of DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender).
The problem is that there are far more commies. Nazis are few and far between.
As a Zionist, yeah it pisses me off too
Does that mean that we're also not allowed to compare the Russian government to the Nazis? After all, the Nazis tried to exterminate the Russians as well. According to your logic, does that mean that comparing the Russian government to the Nazis counts as anti-Russian bigotry?
I really wonder what they think the Nazis did wrong when they make that comparison. You could be rather more inflammatory in noting Netanyahu sucking up to Putin and cribbing notes from him in how to fight his wars in a way his ancestors who fled Russia would be ashamed of with trivial e-oh, right. Tankies.
You don't need to be a Nazi to do horrible things. You also don't need to support terrorism to be against those horrible things.
If I had to guess, I’m thinking they’re poking at the point that Israel is committing a modern genocide despite their main religion being the biggest victim of one of the largest genocides in history.
Lemme make this analogy for the giga brain geniuses replying. If someone from a gang in your city does a mass shooting in the next city over, does that now justify the other city to kill 70,000 of your population while turning the majority of your city's infrastructure to a gravel parking lot, simply because the gang of the mass shooter is in the same city as you?
Lol not doing a very good job, are they?
Urban warfare is hell. It doesn’t help that Hamas doesn’t wear visually distinctive uniforms and hides among the population. This does not justify airstrikes on buildings though, nor their mistreatment of prisoners.
Exactly, like idk how they can ever justify disguising IED's as food while starving out a population.
Fr tho where are u getting this fake news?
The videos of it happening all over different various sources. When you google it, the best defense is "Yeah those were actually mines, not disguised food", go ahead look er up.
Even google AI, which is now aligned with the US military has it as "Claims have circulated that Israeli forces have disguised explosives as food cans and other civilian objects in Gaza; however, fact-checks have debunked some of these claims, identifying the alleged 'food cans' as mine igniter boxes or containers."
But yeah, fake news lmfao
Israel isn't committing a Genocide.
“The legal term “genocide” refers to certain acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.” So when Palestine just becomes Israel, that’s actually just another thanksgiving happy fun time farming land. Honestly, you’re right the Gaza Strip now looks like a big ass gravel parking lot because that’s just modern design.
OHOHOHOHO I'm sorry, I know where you're coming from sorry... I meant war against mostly defenseless civilians who happened to be trapped in that area, my bad
The issue is that I cant find any other examples of genocide where there were 200km+ of tunnels beneath the land being bombed but the ruling government wouldn't share it with their civillians, effectively complicit in their own 'genocide'.
I mean I'm not gonna sit here and defend HAMAS lmfao, they're dogshit authoritarian assholes who haven't let an election happen in 20 years. But I would ask if you would be fine getting killed over your governments decisions, even as a veteran I wouldn't be.
Nope, I dont think anyone would be. But the fact that it's happening massively complicates things, including the ability to label the conflict a genocide. And its horrific that most of the aid aimed at the civillians who have the right to peaceful, prosperous lives, ends up in the hands of Hamas.
Ah, you doing the destiny thing, I mean I'm down to call it an ethnic cleansing instead if you wish. Regardless, I'm just trying to point out how obviously awful the situation is, call it whatever, it's horrific
Just because a group oppressed you doesn’t mean you can’t end up doing similar things to them (case in point China)
Jews are oppressors? I'll be sure to inform my kids.
[removed]
I find that people on the far left and the far right such as yourselves love to ascribe group blame to jews.
The fuck did i do bro
WDYM?
Could it be because they are repeating the same things they say we're done to them, to another group of people
But we aren't. There is no genocide in Gaza. -Their population has increased during the "genocide". About 2/3 of the European Jewish population was murdered in 6 years. Most of the remaining 1/3 fled. Our numbers in Europe will likely never recover.
That wouldn't pass any fact check out there. I would rather trust Amnesty International, the Red Cross and the UN over an obviously biased source. How does the population increase when Israel murder tens of thousands of women and children, flatten everything, and while Doctors Without Borders are reporting babies dying due to exposure.
It's what Arafat called the War of the Cradles, or what's also called demographic jihad