The NATO āpromiseā is such a poor faith argument. NATO did tell Russia that they would not move any further eastā¦ā¦ when doing so would mean invading the Soviet Union. Thatās what they always miss out, I would argue that since the Soviet Union doesnāt exist anymore, holding NATO to a verbal promise made decades ago, to a state which no longer exists, in a completely different political situation is ridiculous.
No but you see Bush promised Yeltsin that the US is never gonna allow any more countries East of Germany to join... In a private conversation... That wasn't documented... Also nevermind that Yeltsin himself said that that conversation never happened.
No, you don't get it! Yeltsin was a drunk, of course he doesn't remember the conversation! He was, however, sober enough to get a serious military concession out of Bush.
It's Russia who broke the promise. Ukraine handed over their Soviet nuclear weapons in the 90s in exchange for peace. But Russia wanted a 21st century war.
I was having this conversation just yesterday with a friend of mine with pro-Russia sympathies.
The promise not to expand eastward (whose existence is up to debate in the first place) was a verbal agreement between a US president, who has been dead for over 20 years and whose political opponents like to claim suffered from dementia while in office, and the also now-dead president of a receding superpower that no longer exists, all done in a bipolar world radically different from the one we live in today. Not a single treaty was signed preventing NATO from accepting countries into its defensive alliance who met the criteria.
Prior to Finland joining as a direct response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the only time NATO expanded to have a significant border with Russia (so not counting Kaliningrad) was the Baltic states in 2004. Itās been over 20 years since those countries joined. If we really were expanding eastward to destroy Russia, donāt you think weād have done it by now?
The only reason Russia fears the expansion of a defensive alliance is because they know they wonāt be able to interfere with and bully their neighbours anymore.
We have access to Reddit, it hasn't been blocked yet. Unfortunately, the Russians on Reddit are mostly disgusting people, mostly brainwashed teenagers. Adequate people tries usually not to show that they are Russians.
And yes, as a Russian, I want to say that the person in the screenshot is a piece of shit.
I recently went on r/rusaskreddit for the first time in months and one of the top posts was a screenshot of a twitter thread where the first person suggested a pro-Ukrainian, though unrealistic peace plan and a Russian person replied with a screenshot that said their account was based in Uzbekistan with a caption ā2 cheese shawarmas pleaseā. The comments on that were of a similar sort. Seems like they decided that they won the argument with that
Unfortunately, yes, we have a lot of militarized teenagers who find jokes about war and insults to be very funny. Special Cancer - Prison-themed jokes and Nazi jokes.
Im gonna get downvoted for this but i dont think they're a pos. I mean their take is awful and russia definitely isn't just targetting military infrastructure but it seems like they're misinformed and brainwashed more than anything. They stated that they personally don't want any conflict.
They do. They have many subs and most of them contain thousands of Reddit TOS violating comments. I am reporting them so much that reddit doesnāt even care at this point. No feedback whatsoever.
You think we're in North Korea or something? (we're getting there tho)
Also i don't agree with people who say most Russians on Reddit are Z and Putin supporters, in fact i've mostly seen more pro-Western/LGBTQ/Ukraine/etc. Russians than pro-Z Russians, and there's plenty of Russian-language liberal subreddits (r/liberta, r/tjournal_refugees and others). Too bad that many people don't see it or acknowledge it
This is what even some supposedly leftists Americans believe! Like, obviously a Russian believes it, they live surrounded by that propaganda, but Americans? Westerners? With complete and unlimited access to the internet and information? With free speech?
Among the sad parts of this is that the Russian poster is very likely simply repeating what their state media has told them. They donāt know itās not true. They donāt know that Russia was the aggressor and that Ukraine posed no threat. This is the Fox News effect; if you only have one news source, you believe what you hear. The difference in the U.S. is that there are (for the moment, at least) other, more credible sources than Fox.
The lack of realisation in this thread of how sad it is that, if this isn't a bot, the people of Russia are so brainwashed by some decrepit old dictator and his lies that they believe that Putin is in the right. It's sad. I refuse to attack the russian people because at the end of the day, they are just people. They are not Putin and his generals.
The NATO āpromiseā is such a poor faith argument. NATO did tell Russia that they would not move any further eastā¦ā¦ when doing so would mean invading the Soviet Union. Thatās what they always miss out, I would argue that since the Soviet Union doesnāt exist anymore, holding NATO to a verbal promise made decades ago, to a state which no longer exists, in a completely different political situation is ridiculous.
No but you see Bush promised Yeltsin that the US is never gonna allow any more countries East of Germany to join... In a private conversation... That wasn't documented... Also nevermind that Yeltsin himself said that that conversation never happened.
No, you don't get it! Yeltsin was a drunk, of course he doesn't remember the conversation! He was, however, sober enough to get a serious military concession out of Bush.
It's Russia who broke the promise. Ukraine handed over their Soviet nuclear weapons in the 90s in exchange for peace. But Russia wanted a 21st century war.
I was having this conversation just yesterday with a friend of mine with pro-Russia sympathies.
The promise not to expand eastward (whose existence is up to debate in the first place) was a verbal agreement between a US president, who has been dead for over 20 years and whose political opponents like to claim suffered from dementia while in office, and the also now-dead president of a receding superpower that no longer exists, all done in a bipolar world radically different from the one we live in today. Not a single treaty was signed preventing NATO from accepting countries into its defensive alliance who met the criteria.
Prior to Finland joining as a direct response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the only time NATO expanded to have a significant border with Russia (so not counting Kaliningrad) was the Baltic states in 2004. Itās been over 20 years since those countries joined. If we really were expanding eastward to destroy Russia, donāt you think weād have done it by now?
The only reason Russia fears the expansion of a defensive alliance is because they know they wonāt be able to interfere with and bully their neighbours anymore.
How can you lose so much karma in so few minutes?
I think downvote karma lost caps at -100 per comment.
Thatās useful to know. Iām saving my karma up for a new Toyota Camry.
I've been on here for like 11+ years and did not know that lol. Learned something new today. Ty.
bots
Do Russians even get access to websites like Reddit? This seems like a bot maybe.
We have access to Reddit, it hasn't been blocked yet. Unfortunately, the Russians on Reddit are mostly disgusting people, mostly brainwashed teenagers. Adequate people tries usually not to show that they are Russians.
And yes, as a Russian, I want to say that the person in the screenshot is a piece of shit.
I recently went on r/rusaskreddit for the first time in months and one of the top posts was a screenshot of a twitter thread where the first person suggested a pro-Ukrainian, though unrealistic peace plan and a Russian person replied with a screenshot that said their account was based in Uzbekistan with a caption ā2 cheese shawarmas pleaseā. The comments on that were of a similar sort. Seems like they decided that they won the argument with that
P.S Look like the post got deleted
Unfortunately, yes, we have a lot of militarized teenagers who find jokes about war and insults to be very funny. Special Cancer - Prison-themed jokes and Nazi jokes.
Im gonna get downvoted for this but i dont think they're a pos. I mean their take is awful and russia definitely isn't just targetting military infrastructure but it seems like they're misinformed and brainwashed more than anything. They stated that they personally don't want any conflict.
Thatās very true! Maybe propaganda
They do. They have many subs and most of them contain thousands of Reddit TOS violating comments. I am reporting them so much that reddit doesnāt even care at this point. No feedback whatsoever.
We do. Reddit isn't popular enough for the government to block it.
Not even mentioning how every ban can be easily bypassed with a vpn.
Wdym. Reddit ain't even blocked in Russia, I'm Russian myself And I'm in reddit rn
You think we're in North Korea or something? (we're getting there tho)
Also i don't agree with people who say most Russians on Reddit are Z and Putin supporters, in fact i've mostly seen more pro-Western/LGBTQ/Ukraine/etc. Russians than pro-Z Russians, and there's plenty of Russian-language liberal subreddits (r/liberta, r/tjournal_refugees and others). Too bad that many people don't see it or acknowledge it
Yep. We do. The government didnāt get to Reddit. Yet.
Me if I belived in propaganda
Russian here. We don't claim this mf
Sounds like AI slop
"Despite the signed documents"
Are these documents in the room with us now, Ivan?
These mfs are the reason why Russians on Reddit are disliked
This is what even some supposedly leftists Americans believe! Like, obviously a Russian believes it, they live surrounded by that propaganda, but Americans? Westerners? With complete and unlimited access to the internet and information? With free speech?
They're not "leftists", they're tankies, and we (all other leftists) all dislike them.
Among the sad parts of this is that the Russian poster is very likely simply repeating what their state media has told them. They donāt know itās not true. They donāt know that Russia was the aggressor and that Ukraine posed no threat. This is the Fox News effect; if you only have one news source, you believe what you hear. The difference in the U.S. is that there are (for the moment, at least) other, more credible sources than Fox.
Yap yap
Russian here. This is either a bot or someone who is brainwashed asf.
The lack of realisation in this thread of how sad it is that, if this isn't a bot, the people of Russia are so brainwashed by some decrepit old dictator and his lies that they believe that Putin is in the right. It's sad. I refuse to attack the russian people because at the end of the day, they are just people. They are not Putin and his generals.
To be fair, the US would probably start a world war if Russia tried to put missiles in Mexico. Cuban Missile Crisis all over again.
Poor dude made a logic comment on Reddit š