As I suspected, lawyers are truly freaking morons. Like how is the bar exam this difficult? Maybe it’s like nursing where you study a bunch of stuff that ultimately isn’t applicable to the real world.
Lessons learned so far:
You can file any motion you want, just make sure you attach a petition of hearing with it and notify all parties involved using certified mail.
Just get in front of the judge, be nice, be clean, and most things will go your way.
Do not ask for a GAL or therapy reconciliation, it’ll only become a moving goal post and make seeing your kids take longer. Just get in front of the judge. If there’s no domestic violence, restraining orders, etc… you’re fine.
I gave up custody cause I went into travel nursing, I wanted to play nice and let the paperwork reflect I wouldn’t be able to see them 3 days a week. Turns out, you can’t lose custody for a job. So don’t fall for that trap.
So far, everything that’s happened, I didn’t need a lawyer truly for. Most websites have the forms you need. And ChatGPT generated forms are accepted. YOU CAN CREATE YOUR OWN DOCUMENT.
However, going pro se doesn’t mean you can drag your ex to court over and over. That is called vexation or something and the courts will make you pay their lawyer fees.
Print 3 documents of everything and be ready to hand them to the judge when she asks for what you’re talking about.
Be nice.
Be clean.
Be civil.
It’ll work out.
I'm in British Columbia, Canada, in a smaller city. I took an 'unbundling' deal with a local lawyer. He advises me on orders and forms to file, etc. I do the leg work myself, filing at the courthouse, compiling my affidavit info, again - etc.
So far it's working, and I'm becoming more competent so I need him less.
I've still spent 3000$ bucks though, and we aren't even at a hearing yet.
BC has a good document website, with fillable pdfs, etc.
It's still a grind if you aren't familiar with handling documents by email. Half my time has been wasted just getting familiar with the easiest way to process documents. I'm a blue collar guy, someone in an office position would be way ahead of me.
Regardless, you’re legit learning a craft.
So he'll be all set next time he gets divorced?
Nonsense.
The family law judicial system is not kind to men. Get a lawyer.
Went fine for me. Your mileage may vary
*Lawyers are dumb and I'm smart."
ChatGPT makes stuff up all the time. There are lawyers who have been caught using it because it invented legal references and case law. If you absolutely have to go pro se because of money (no shame there) then there are better and worse ways to do it, but don't kid yourself that even a marginally good lawyer won't shred you if you're up against one.
Don't be dumb. These are your kids you're talking about. This will affect them for the rest of their lives. Get a good lawyer.
Going pro se is fine for filing affidavits and maybe simple hearings. You should not go pro se for trial, especially if you’re a guy and the other side has a competent attorney. Also, most judges in general hate dealing with pro se litigants because you’re not going to know the process, rules, and finer details of family law. They don’t want to waste time coaching you on what is and isn’t hearsay, for example, or how to stipulate documents into evidence. If you can afford an attorney, get one, but make sure he/she isn’t a bumbling idiot who’s going to take your money without moving the case forward.
If you’re not cross examining then pro se is just fine. I just got done talking and going through it with the judge. She was a nice lady. She only had to stop me a few times. Kept it cordial and respectful. It all worked out.
Just because she was respectful does not mean she was not annoyed, or that you didn't make mistakes
Of course I made mistakes, but so did her lawyer. Everything worked out.
N=1. Just because it worked out for you doesn’t mean the same for vast majority of fathers in similar situations. There are a lot of variables involved and my recommendation would be to minimize risk by controlling what you can. Most metros will have very busy family courts. If you think you can cut through all that noise on your own, go ahead. An experienced attorney who knows the judge, can turn down the heat on a case by effectively conferencing with opposing counsel and AFCs, would probably be the better option.
I self-represented. It was HARD. I basically had a full time job after my actual job.
Even if some lawyers are morons, they have experience. It was a tough battle.
I won (as a father, 50% is pretty much the best win I could get), but it was not trivial.
After reading this nonsense, I’d divorce you too.
Thank you. That needed saying.
Ballsy not to get a lawyer. I hope it works out for you. For me I didn't want to chance not one single thing. I wasn't about to play games with my kid involved in such high stakes. I do not regret getting a professional. It paid off. Things I didn't even realize were things were handled to my benefit while my wife and her attourney got wiped. She got hers for no cost employer benefit, but she had one. I enjoy my no alimony, no child support payments, 50/50 custody, 50% of the hard earned assets I worked for, and a chunk of change.
You’re not wrong to go pro se it’s just not for everyone or every situation. I’ve done it myself and cornered my exes attorney on a procedural error which helped a lot in giving me leverage in that specific case. I’ve used it in other ways to get people ordered by the court to do things (motions to enforce). I used ChatGPT, and it’s really good at it. My advice to anyone is to give it lots, and lots and lots of context, constantly tell it what you’re m thinking on the issue. Also build a a custom GPT that’s focused on law issues in your state and county. AND THEN…and this is the big one: be scared, assume you’re missing something, check and then double check yourself, poke as many holes in your strategy as possible and do read necessary laws that you are citing or building a case on.
ChatGPT really helped open my eyes on how to get things moving in the court and it’s great at analyzing emails from opposing counsel to help you understand what they are saying if it gets technical.
Again, it’s not for everyone but if you have the time to put into and the drive you can do it.
Definitely not for everyone. For me, there’s no DV restraining orders contempt of court or warrants. So everything is pretty much boiling down to a bitter ex that’s dragging her feet.
Check this guy out, everybody. A person who wanted zero custody but couldn't get it, who learned the hard way about being sanctioned for vexatious litigation, and who evidently dealt with no asset disputes, and he thinks I'm the moron. Onoez my life's work has become without meaning.
Maybe it worked for you, although from the hints you've dropped, I suspect you're viewing your experience through rose-colored glasses. But it doesn't work most of the time. When I was a divorce lawyer, half my clients tried to start a divorce on their own with neither party having counsel, but got bogged down in all the paperwork and personal conflict and eventually had to try to hire me anyway.
I don't mind this gauche little Reddit flex of yours, even with all its subtle tells that all is not as you think it is. But it's wildly irresponsible to presume that your risky decisions will work out just as well for everybody. Do better.
Right? I could care less about the flex, but there's always the chance that somebody doesn't recognize this guy for the moron he apparently is.
Best of luck.
This is reckless advice. Yes, in an uncontested divorce, it's pretty easy to manage. But in a contested one, or for any motion that ends up in court, you're putting yourself at a disadvantage against an actual attorney:
They know what they're doing, which decreases the chances of mistakes. ChatGPT is no substitute, and has been caught making up legal stuff before. It may sound great, but it's a "you don't know what you don't know" situation - without an actual expert to check your work, how do you know if what the bot is telling you is correct?
Lawyers have connections. They know the judge. They know their tendencies. A lawyer the judge has known for years is going to get the benefit of the doubt over some guy handing him a motion obviously written by AI.
Legit lawyers do not know the judge and I just watched my ex’s lawyer get run over by the judge. Everytime a lawyer said they knew a judge, they didn’t. Basically, judges are nice people. Be nice. Get nice.
Huh, I guess I was hallucinating when I was a court clerk and the judges and lawyers talked about their shared social lives before and after every single hearing I clerked.
Your sample size is 1. Just because it's working out for you doesn't mean that it always does. Your case sounds very easy, since you're just trying to get back something you shouldn't have even given up in the first place. For every situation like yours, there's 10 guys who didn't lawyer up and got taken to the cleaners.
Well that sounds awful. So if it’s obvious to you that guys got taken to the cleaners, why don’t lawyers and judges stop this outcome from happening?
Well, the other person's lawyer isn't going to stop an outcome that's good for their own client, whose interests they represent.
Judges will generally approve anything the parties agree on. So in too many cases, one side lawyers up, puts forth an agreement favorable to their client, and the lawyer-less party agrees for a variety of reasons: misplaced loyalty, not wanting to rock the boat, or most relevant to this discussion - because they just don't realize that they could potentially get a better deal if they counter-offered.