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Ya.. it is this kind of thing that makes me hate Antis. They unfairly target indie developers the most. And I can't stand it. Until that stops, I wont stop pushing back against them.
Many solo devs are not without fault either. This guy and his team are happy to declare themselves anti-AI but still haven't realized that it means nothing because there is no way to tell. They keep fueling the brain-dead hate mob instead of educating them and the next time they'll get hit harder.
Ya.. I did notice that they were quick to declare themselves as anti-ai. Maybe they are. Or at least neutral. I dunno ..But my personal fight against anti-ai, is that I feel the unfairly attack indie-developers. No, I do not believe indie-developers are rolling around in riches and deserved to be attacked - I think they have plenty of their own problems. And I see 1000 AI cat videos a day, and I dunno, I don't want to make a list, but the amount of AI things out there, but there are still plenty of Antis yammering AI-SLOP at indie-devs, any chance they get, let they get some social-media-award-cookie for doing it. Until they stop, I cant stop being Pro-AI push-back. Mostly because I feel as the developers in this picture do. I work very hard on my game, and sometimes I just feel there is no real place to share it.
They’re trying to respond to a defamatory post and prevent themselves from becoming a target of brigading. I’m hardly going to blame them for trying to appease the crazy when the alternative is becoming a target. They really don’t have a choice.
They have a choice. They can either defuse the bomb and teach the hate mob how stupid the whole AI witch hunt is and to respect every tool and every developer. Or they can weasel their way out with empty sentences like "we'll never use AI, believe us ok? We're the good guys, sowwy plis you're right to be mad cause AI bad, but not at us ok? uwu". They'll become a target regardless, now they'll get accused of lying on top of that.
Unfortunately it doesn't matter if people explain it when antis have already decided that AI is a "copy paste plagerism entity", instead of anything close to what it actually is, and refuse to listen to anything that says otherwise.
I agree with OdinsGhost's point, it may seem shameful but when faced with harassment that relies on something unable to be proven/proving a negative? Sometimes the best course of action is appeasement.
They’re not going to “diffuse the bomb” or “teach the hate mob” anything. That’s never going to happen, and it’s unfair to expect them to do so. They’ve, by their own words, sunk years of their lives into making their game and expecting them to give that up to fight anti-AI attacks simply isn’t realistic.
Think of it like a mugging. Yeah, you can fight the mugger. But, most of the time, it’s safer for you in the short and long run to hand over your wallet. It’s unfair but it’s reality. I’m never going to hold it against any small creator that has to appease these crazies to keep themselves from becoming a bigger target.
The hate mob exists and continues to exist because of their rhetoric. They didn't fight the attacks, they just postponed them. Even under the original post there are many people analysing their art and calling it AI genned. They should defend themselves but this isn't the right message.
Think of it like a mugging.
Wrong analogy. The crowd is not a mugger, it has no power over you, it's actually the opposite. Companies should stop acting like scared babies when a bunch of online losers start attacking them. This is more like having pepper spray in your bag and deciding to not use it because you don't want to hurt the mugger's poor innocent eyes.
This is the last time I’m going to respond because it’s clear that you and I fundamentally disagree. All I will say, is that it’s easy to say “you should never back down” when it’s not your career and company on the line. Literally all their response did was say “we don’t use AI“ followed by a soft appeal to get them to back down.
As for the analogy being wrong? It’s not. Hate mobs, like this, are an effective tactic precisely because they feed on each other to build inertia and can so thoroughly destroy reputations on baseless accusations. They are extremely hard to combat, and often the best way to do so is to play possum and hope they find another target if you don’t have a legal and financial war chest to fight them head on.
I agree with you! Your point here .. is dear to me. Often when the creators are busy working, they don't realize at the time how nasty and unreasonable the Antis can be. Then after thousands of hours of hard work, they are met with this BS. Ya.. I agree with you
Just because someone was salty and said some BS it doesn't mean we automatically believe it. The game doesn't look like AI slop, and they have an instagram page where they tag some artists etc. Don't over-exaggerate because of 1 persons review.
This '1 persons review' is an example of why this entire AI-Defense exists. It's not just 1, it is far too many, far too often. Just one image is posted, but we could post thousands.
If one game has 80% positive reviews and 20% negative reviews we would say it is a good game. If you take all the negative reviews from all games ever made, and tally them up, and say "look everyone hates games" that's not really going to be representing the truth.
The truth here is that that 1 person hated the game and just said some BS. Same as if I were to post games where they obviously use AI and they are also bad. It wouldn't mean every game that uses AI is garbage.
In any case I mostly meant that it is pretty simple to prove that you don't use AI at least to an extend that most people will be satisfied. There is always going to be that 1 person who won't be happy anyway.
The problem is that this one review is like being stung by a single killer bee. That alone isn't likely to kill you. But now the bee's alert pheromone is in the air and it's going to attract others, and if they sting too the situation will snowball.
That's how angry mobs form. All it takes is for one guy to yell that he's spotted a witch.
It isnt 1 person. Gosh.. How many times do you need to be told that it is a big ongoing problem with many? That IS the problem most of us in this channel are concerned about.
And sometimes you get stung by a bee without the huge swarm subsequently mobbing you. That doesn't mean you shouldn't worry about that swarm coming when you get stung and take efforts to avoid it.
This puts me to mind of the people who think a huge amount of money and effort was wasted on the Y2K bug because when 2000 rolled around nothing happened.
If you look at the twitter post there are many people analysing their capsule art and in-game art and calling it AI genned. It's inevitable, but they're also trying to fight the fire by blowing on the flames.
And if a game does disclose AI usage, they can't just ignore it and move on. They go out of their way to review bomb it.
So they're teaching developers that it's better to not disclose AI usage and hope nobody notices. And then try to hunt the non-disclosure devs down and they harm non-AI games in the process. This whole situation is 100% the fault of the antis.
Small dev that quit their job and lived on ramen for the last two years used AI - WHAT THE FUCK, YOU STUPID FUCKING DEV. FUCK YOUR GAME AND FUCK YOU. GO TO HELL WITH YOUR SHITTY GAME.
Antis are abusive and love to hurt the small guy.
Antis love to dump on us, USERS of AI.
They never dump on corporations. They love Daddy Disney.
Antis are literally programmed to respect big corporate.
They quite literally want Mega-Corporations like Disney and Industry Cartels like the RIAA to have the power to claim Copyright on entire styles of Media and Trade Dress.
They have their heads lodged so far up their own asses that they are walking micro-singularities.
They implied at the end of the review that they would have pirated it if it had been awesome. This was someone looking for a fight to excuse their behavior.
I put out multiple AI-assisted games this year without disclosing and nobody noticed it was AI.
The thing is, I would have gladly tagged them as AI if that didn't automatically mean review bombs by luddites who don't even play the game. My games are mostly positive and netted six figures. If I had tagged them AI, they'd be rated negative, which they obviously don't deserve. They're fun games and they look good. Not run of the mill "slop".
That whole virtue signaling of developers avoiding AI in their games is going to be real funny and age like milk in a few years when AI will be a relatively important part of the creative process of almost all big dev studios.
I can already see all the flip floping from those people.
I don't understand how you can be a creative and not be excited about a tool that can expand your creative landscape that much.
The way generative ai came out was pretty brutal and too sudden for people to adapt properly I would say.
The way it flooded internet with content had to make people angry too
Another example of "Generative AI makes slop" meanwhile this game looks pretty good at least visually and mechanically for the style. These clowns can't make their minds up.
AI disclosure is not the problem, the people that freak out when they think something is AI are the problem. They will be a problem regardless of disclosure.
Crazy to see people pushing back against transparency regardless of the side you’re on.
One side hates transparency because it gives them a target they might not have noticed without being told, proving the point that there’s functionally little difference between the two creation methods. The other side hates mandatory transparency because it paints a target on the backs of creators.
In this case it would probably be better to do one UI button with AI and disclose that, if it kept these guys from buying your game in the first place.
Antis weaponized the word. Now is the era where anyone with malicious intent can abuse it.
Thankfully that’s the final step before people stop taking the claim seriously entirely- once a reasonable majority realize my first paragraph, the anti movement as a whole loses momentum and becomes a fringe group entirely
By far the worst thing about all of this. I don't understand hatred or blindness or blind hatred. But I really don't understand wanting to blindly hate. If I hate something, I at least know a thing or two about it.
These people will accuse someone of making AI Slop even as they are watching them stream every brushstroke or mouseclick to prove that they're not using AI. (And then mock them when the police they called for knocks on their doors.)
It's never about their purity, it's all because of their need for narcissistic supply. The Game Dev should report this to Steam as inappropriate.
Rumor is that Valve will integrate AI into HL3 for a dynamic experience. So requiring AI disclosure on Steam in time would take the heat off when it’s their turn.
What made someone post a screenshot of a statement made on a different platform on X? What made the user want to invest money in to this game? What made the game designer use a story with a very unique and uncommon narrative? Where did the story come from? What made the game designer use the words mentioned instead of more common words?
For what it's worth, I've been on Steam for a long long time and Steam reviews are consistently terrible and nonsensical, this one included. AI added yet another reason for people to skirt around what the actual game is about and how it plays and whine about AI instead.
I think it says a lot that ai is used to refer to products users find to be subpar
Regardless of your opinion of ai this seems to be how it is perceived by a lot of the public right now, it could always change for the better or worse and that depends on how it is going to be used in the years to come.
I am of the opinion that I don't care too much about ai use as long as the product is good, I don't have enough time or energy to actively hate ai although I am still distrustful of the technology and the CEOs who own it
Claiming the disclaimer to be useless because some people will accuse a game without the disclosure for being made with ai is stupid.
It's knowledge that enough people want to know about a product before considering buying it and that is enough of a reason to disclose ai usage in the development
I get what your complaint is (that the first and last couple sentences blames it on AI)
But 90% of that message was about how the game was poorly written and explained how/why. The poor writing, the unclear characters, and the text-chat dialogue like "u tard". Heck, not even the visual design was good!
They made the assumption that all these bad decisions were AI and not just a terrible developer who can't write a story or stick to a color pallete. They were wrong about the WHY, but it was still a terrible game, by all accounts.
Because their CONCLUSION was incorrect, but their data was not.
Given that they had the game loaded and running for six minutes, it’s more likely than not that they’re not actually basing their complaint on personal experience.
Considering it's seemingly a dating sim, based off the general vibes... 6 minutes is a long time.
Like, to put that into perspective, most of those games load fast, start plot pretty quick and start with a LOT of dialogue. No time wasted. Average reading speed is 200-300 wpm. So they woulda been able to get well over 1000 words within 6 minutes. That's about 2 full 8.5x11 pages of writing.
It's pretty easy to figure out if a piece of writing is bad from just a paragraph, but this is 1200 words or as high as 1800 words or around 3 pages.
Then the rest can be learned by looking at the other comments on the game (where they can learn they were not alone in thinking the sister was supposed to be a love interest, and the Creator had to keep on correcting people)
No no - what I'm saying is that regardless of what the game is actually like, anyone can say anything in a review... Which is why the developers made the point about this particular negative review.
They made the assumption that all these bad decisions were AI and not just a terrible developer who can't write a story or stick to a color pallete.
The fact that there are a lot of non-AI work that is terrible, yet gets presumed to be AI as if it is the cause of or can only ever make poor quality art or writing, but then when you find out it was actually poorly written by out-of-touch people, suddenly silence from the anti-crowd. Suddenly the fact its human made doesn't matter.
Ah it's bullshit. That guy's game flopped, has mixed reviews, and he was posting that on twitter for good boy points. Wouldn't be surprised if that was some friend or coworker who posted the reviews just for the devs to farm interest.
I'm not anti AI by any means but I still appreciate when people disclose that they've used it; I've seen some pretty cool AI works but it still doesn't compare to works made by human hands.
Problem is you will be relentlessly harassed by people no matter what, regardless of why or how much you've used it for any reason, and somehow their most extreme positions are boosted by people as the acceptable measure only because its a popular opinion to have that. Thus it excuses it, no matter how baseless it is. Even if you say people are harassing you or doxxing you, they won't care.
You can say I used it for x,y,z valid reasons to help ability, and they will brush it off to call it slop and "pick up a pencil."
Its an issue where the arguments don't actually matter, but just the popular position does and gives people without good arguments a pass to just be assholes to the acceptable position they oppose.
A big company like Activision has no real reason to use it unless it helps their coding, but personal use from random people online gets treated the same.
What a stupid fucking post. AI labels won't just help customers but developers too. As the AI label would let you know which games use AI and which don't, as well as how AI is used in said game. Transparency in how AI is used in game development is absolutely something people should want, especially Generative AI.
0.1 hours. Are we really gonna pretend like some guy playing a game for 6 minutes max and giving it a bad review proves in any way that disclosure is useless? Let’s say it is, then why care about it either way?
It matters because even if indie devs do "everything right" aka make a game where the only 'AI use' is standard programmed NPC behavior, some random idiot can just claim "you used too many em-dashes! AI!" or "no human would make something intentionally surreal and stylized. AI!" and then devs will be forced to put out a statement to cater to all those online who would gladly call them out and boycott/harass them. For something they did not use.
Don't you see how that's fucked up?
Just look at Failbetter Games, the acclaimed studio creator of Fallen London, Sunless Seas and Sunless Skies, getting harassed on tumblr for.... art stylization on promotional art for their next game with much of the notes on tumblr are bloggers pointing out how the so-called "AI tells" are artistic embellishments that make perfect sense for a painting.
There is no winning if someone can outright say "No, I didn't use this," and people simply claim that they are lying because "No one would intentionally create like that" and get away with harassment.
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Ya.. it is this kind of thing that makes me hate Antis. They unfairly target indie developers the most. And I can't stand it. Until that stops, I wont stop pushing back against them.
Many solo devs are not without fault either. This guy and his team are happy to declare themselves anti-AI but still haven't realized that it means nothing because there is no way to tell. They keep fueling the brain-dead hate mob instead of educating them and the next time they'll get hit harder.
Ya.. I did notice that they were quick to declare themselves as anti-ai. Maybe they are. Or at least neutral. I dunno ..But my personal fight against anti-ai, is that I feel the unfairly attack indie-developers. No, I do not believe indie-developers are rolling around in riches and deserved to be attacked - I think they have plenty of their own problems. And I see 1000 AI cat videos a day, and I dunno, I don't want to make a list, but the amount of AI things out there, but there are still plenty of Antis yammering AI-SLOP at indie-devs, any chance they get, let they get some social-media-award-cookie for doing it. Until they stop, I cant stop being Pro-AI push-back. Mostly because I feel as the developers in this picture do. I work very hard on my game, and sometimes I just feel there is no real place to share it.
They’re trying to respond to a defamatory post and prevent themselves from becoming a target of brigading. I’m hardly going to blame them for trying to appease the crazy when the alternative is becoming a target. They really don’t have a choice.
They have a choice. They can either defuse the bomb and teach the hate mob how stupid the whole AI witch hunt is and to respect every tool and every developer. Or they can weasel their way out with empty sentences like "we'll never use AI, believe us ok? We're the good guys, sowwy plis you're right to be mad cause AI bad, but not at us ok? uwu". They'll become a target regardless, now they'll get accused of lying on top of that.
Unfortunately it doesn't matter if people explain it when antis have already decided that AI is a "copy paste plagerism entity", instead of anything close to what it actually is, and refuse to listen to anything that says otherwise.
I agree with OdinsGhost's point, it may seem shameful but when faced with harassment that relies on something unable to be proven/proving a negative? Sometimes the best course of action is appeasement.
They’re not going to “diffuse the bomb” or “teach the hate mob” anything. That’s never going to happen, and it’s unfair to expect them to do so. They’ve, by their own words, sunk years of their lives into making their game and expecting them to give that up to fight anti-AI attacks simply isn’t realistic.
Think of it like a mugging. Yeah, you can fight the mugger. But, most of the time, it’s safer for you in the short and long run to hand over your wallet. It’s unfair but it’s reality. I’m never going to hold it against any small creator that has to appease these crazies to keep themselves from becoming a bigger target.
The hate mob exists and continues to exist because of their rhetoric. They didn't fight the attacks, they just postponed them. Even under the original post there are many people analysing their art and calling it AI genned. They should defend themselves but this isn't the right message.
Wrong analogy. The crowd is not a mugger, it has no power over you, it's actually the opposite. Companies should stop acting like scared babies when a bunch of online losers start attacking them. This is more like having pepper spray in your bag and deciding to not use it because you don't want to hurt the mugger's poor innocent eyes.
This is the last time I’m going to respond because it’s clear that you and I fundamentally disagree. All I will say, is that it’s easy to say “you should never back down” when it’s not your career and company on the line. Literally all their response did was say “we don’t use AI“ followed by a soft appeal to get them to back down.
As for the analogy being wrong? It’s not. Hate mobs, like this, are an effective tactic precisely because they feed on each other to build inertia and can so thoroughly destroy reputations on baseless accusations. They are extremely hard to combat, and often the best way to do so is to play possum and hope they find another target if you don’t have a legal and financial war chest to fight them head on.
I agree with you! Your point here .. is dear to me. Often when the creators are busy working, they don't realize at the time how nasty and unreasonable the Antis can be. Then after thousands of hours of hard work, they are met with this BS. Ya.. I agree with you
Just because someone was salty and said some BS it doesn't mean we automatically believe it. The game doesn't look like AI slop, and they have an instagram page where they tag some artists etc. Don't over-exaggerate because of 1 persons review.
This '1 persons review' is an example of why this entire AI-Defense exists. It's not just 1, it is far too many, far too often. Just one image is posted, but we could post thousands.
If one game has 80% positive reviews and 20% negative reviews we would say it is a good game. If you take all the negative reviews from all games ever made, and tally them up, and say "look everyone hates games" that's not really going to be representing the truth.
The truth here is that that 1 person hated the game and just said some BS. Same as if I were to post games where they obviously use AI and they are also bad. It wouldn't mean every game that uses AI is garbage.
In any case I mostly meant that it is pretty simple to prove that you don't use AI at least to an extend that most people will be satisfied. There is always going to be that 1 person who won't be happy anyway.
The problem is that this one review is like being stung by a single killer bee. That alone isn't likely to kill you. But now the bee's alert pheromone is in the air and it's going to attract others, and if they sting too the situation will snowball.
That's how angry mobs form. All it takes is for one guy to yell that he's spotted a witch.
And? Are you going to stop everyone from talking to prevent the 1 super salty guy's BS? Or is it my fault they wrote that review?
But regardless this has already happened in the past, and there isn't a mob blaming them for AI use.
It isnt 1 person. Gosh.. How many times do you need to be told that it is a big ongoing problem with many? That IS the problem most of us in this channel are concerned about.
And sometimes you get stung by a bee without the huge swarm subsequently mobbing you. That doesn't mean you shouldn't worry about that swarm coming when you get stung and take efforts to avoid it.
This puts me to mind of the people who think a huge amount of money and effort was wasted on the Y2K bug because when 2000 rolled around nothing happened.
If you look at the twitter post there are many people analysing their capsule art and in-game art and calling it AI genned. It's inevitable, but they're also trying to fight the fire by blowing on the flames.
You don’t put out a fire by fanning the flames
And if a game does disclose AI usage, they can't just ignore it and move on. They go out of their way to review bomb it.
So they're teaching developers that it's better to not disclose AI usage and hope nobody notices. And then try to hunt the non-disclosure devs down and they harm non-AI games in the process. This whole situation is 100% the fault of the antis.
Ya.. if people want full disclosure.. the places requiring it, should have some policy that when it is disclosed, it should not be dogpiled against.
People have the right to choose whether or not to buy or download a game.
This DOESN'T grant them the right to be abusive to the creator for any reason.
I DEFINITELY agree with this.
Yeah, there need to be protections against harassment, regardless of what tools are or aren't used in the development of games.
Not all Anti-AI people are hateful assholes...
However, hateful Anti-AI people are indeed assholes.
Game doesn’t disclose it used AI
Anti: AI slop!
Game does disclose it used AI
Anti: I knew it! AI slop!
Game Dev discloses AI use
Anti: SWATs them.
EA uses AI - meh
Disney uses AI - whatever
Small dev that quit their job and lived on ramen for the last two years used AI - WHAT THE FUCK, YOU STUPID FUCKING DEV. FUCK YOUR GAME AND FUCK YOU. GO TO HELL WITH YOUR SHITTY GAME.
Antis are abusive and love to hurt the small guy.
Antis love to dump on us, USERS of AI.
They never dump on corporations. They love Daddy Disney.
Antis are literally programmed to respect big corporate.
They quite literally want Mega-Corporations like Disney and Industry Cartels like the RIAA to have the power to claim Copyright on entire styles of Media and Trade Dress.
They have their heads lodged so far up their own asses that they are walking micro-singularities.
Activision got SWATted?
I am referring to indie devs that this has happened to, but you already knew that.
No, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned Activision, who is the only game developer I knew of that had been complaining about the AI tags on steam?
Do you really think independent Devs would risk publicly complaining about it when even more morons will jump at their throat the moment they do so ?
Activision is huge, they don't give a shit about a few dickheads verbally attacking them, but for small indie Devs that can have serious consequences.
Only the guilty would attempt to hide their guilt!
The antis should just take a flop.
This guy literally played for 6 minutes
You can feel it in the r slash solodev and indiedev forums.
Indie and solo devs are the one that benefit the most from AI assist.
Willingly handicapping themselves with legacy tools has no effect on luddites. They can't tell the difference because the tools are good.
More importantly, luddites would never have bought those games anyway. Whatever it is made with legacy or new tools.
They implied at the end of the review that they would have pirated it if it had been awesome. This was someone looking for a fight to excuse their behavior.
I put out multiple AI-assisted games this year without disclosing and nobody noticed it was AI.
The thing is, I would have gladly tagged them as AI if that didn't automatically mean review bombs by luddites who don't even play the game. My games are mostly positive and netted six figures. If I had tagged them AI, they'd be rated negative, which they obviously don't deserve. They're fun games and they look good. Not run of the mill "slop".
You know you can add a description for the use of AI, right?
Yeah, and then get review bombed by luddites, as I've already addressed.
That whole virtue signaling of developers avoiding AI in their games is going to be real funny and age like milk in a few years when AI will be a relatively important part of the creative process of almost all big dev studios.
I can already see all the flip floping from those people.
I don't understand how you can be a creative and not be excited about a tool that can expand your creative landscape that much.
The way generative ai came out was pretty brutal and too sudden for people to adapt properly I would say. The way it flooded internet with content had to make people angry too
Pretty sure ChagGPT doesn't even use phrases like "u turd" unless explicity told to.
This is true.
My ChatGPT would never use that phrase, as I've instructed mine to be cheerful and polite. 😅🤷
"0.1h on record" so he's played the game for 6 minutes and come to this conclusion?😂😂
People brought it on themselves imo
Such a misfire on the issue.
Steam please take ai hate as offtopic and thus reportable
THAT'S a good idea.
Which game is it, however? Is there a case where it really is AI slop?
edit: the game is Shrine's Legacy, and I'd say it doesn't look like an AI slop
Another example of "Generative AI makes slop" meanwhile this game looks pretty good at least visually and mechanically for the style. These clowns can't make their minds up.
Friendly fire, friendly fire everywhere.
They tell you to support artists but then turn around and attack some because of superstition.
'0.1 hour' reviews are the best also
AI disclosure is not the problem, the people that freak out when they think something is AI are the problem. They will be a problem regardless of disclosure.
Crazy to see people pushing back against transparency regardless of the side you’re on.
It's because some people don't like transparency... On both "sides" 😩
One side hates transparency because it gives them a target they might not have noticed without being told, proving the point that there’s functionally little difference between the two creation methods. The other side hates mandatory transparency because it paints a target on the backs of creators.
The two sides are not the same.
I definitely do agree, and I am opposed to mandatory transparency.
I think on Reddit, letting individual subreddits make their own rules about it is a good idea.
Steam is a messy situation.
In this case it would probably be better to do one UI button with AI and disclose that, if it kept these guys from buying your game in the first place.
Oh, like adding sesame seeds to anything just to pass the FDA allergen restrictions
ESRB ratings were meant to keep angry parents from harassing workers.
Same problem, I hope it goes down a better route and not just be left there abandoned.
Antis weaponized the word. Now is the era where anyone with malicious intent can abuse it.
Thankfully that’s the final step before people stop taking the claim seriously entirely- once a reasonable majority realize my first paragraph, the anti movement as a whole loses momentum and becomes a fringe group entirely
By far the worst thing about all of this. I don't understand hatred or blindness or blind hatred. But I really don't understand wanting to blindly hate. If I hate something, I at least know a thing or two about it.
"We do not endorse generative AI and will never use it."
This will age well.
These people will accuse someone of making AI Slop even as they are watching them stream every brushstroke or mouseclick to prove that they're not using AI. (And then mock them when the police they called for knocks on their doors.)
It's never about their purity, it's all because of their need for narcissistic supply. The Game Dev should report this to Steam as inappropriate.
And this just filters back into “AI bad” “AI fault” instead of these garbage horrible people…
"We do not endorse generative AI and will never use it."
Translation - "We are trying, fruitlessly, to placate morons who won't respect us either way."
Rumor is that Valve will integrate AI into HL3 for a dynamic experience. So requiring AI disclosure on Steam in time would take the heat off when it’s their turn.
What made someone post a screenshot of a statement made on a different platform on X? What made the user want to invest money in to this game? What made the game designer use a story with a very unique and uncommon narrative? Where did the story come from? What made the game designer use the words mentioned instead of more common words?
I'm sorry, but if you review with less than like 40 mins into the game, I don't believe you.
For what it's worth, I've been on Steam for a long long time and Steam reviews are consistently terrible and nonsensical, this one included. AI added yet another reason for people to skirt around what the actual game is about and how it plays and whine about AI instead.
no, I think this is a reason why the official label is required to separate itself from random internet trolls like this
This is unfortunate... I think Steam exposing Activision's unwillingness to pay human artists in COD was a good thing.
I also think targeted harassment is bad, whether people are using AI or not.
It makes the whole discussion very much a mixed bag.
I like AI disclosure in places like reddit, but also think it should be up to the admins of individual subreddits.
I think it says a lot that ai is used to refer to products users find to be subpar
Regardless of your opinion of ai this seems to be how it is perceived by a lot of the public right now, it could always change for the better or worse and that depends on how it is going to be used in the years to come.
I am of the opinion that I don't care too much about ai use as long as the product is good, I don't have enough time or energy to actively hate ai although I am still distrustful of the technology and the CEOs who own it
Claiming the disclaimer to be useless because some people will accuse a game without the disclosure for being made with ai is stupid.
It's knowledge that enough people want to know about a product before considering buying it and that is enough of a reason to disclose ai usage in the development
I get what your complaint is (that the first and last couple sentences blames it on AI)
But 90% of that message was about how the game was poorly written and explained how/why. The poor writing, the unclear characters, and the text-chat dialogue like "u tard". Heck, not even the visual design was good!
They made the assumption that all these bad decisions were AI and not just a terrible developer who can't write a story or stick to a color pallete. They were wrong about the WHY, but it was still a terrible game, by all accounts.
Because their CONCLUSION was incorrect, but their data was not.
Eh, without PLAYING the game it's hard to say.
Anyone can say anything in a review.
So... Your excuse is that it's a wholesale lie?
Given that they had the game loaded and running for six minutes, it’s more likely than not that they’re not actually basing their complaint on personal experience.
Considering it's seemingly a dating sim, based off the general vibes... 6 minutes is a long time.
Like, to put that into perspective, most of those games load fast, start plot pretty quick and start with a LOT of dialogue. No time wasted. Average reading speed is 200-300 wpm. So they woulda been able to get well over 1000 words within 6 minutes. That's about 2 full 8.5x11 pages of writing.
It's pretty easy to figure out if a piece of writing is bad from just a paragraph, but this is 1200 words or as high as 1800 words or around 3 pages.
Then the rest can be learned by looking at the other comments on the game (where they can learn they were not alone in thinking the sister was supposed to be a love interest, and the Creator had to keep on correcting people)
No no - what I'm saying is that regardless of what the game is actually like, anyone can say anything in a review... Which is why the developers made the point about this particular negative review.
The fact that there are a lot of non-AI work that is terrible, yet gets presumed to be AI as if it is the cause of or can only ever make poor quality art or writing, but then when you find out it was actually poorly written by out-of-touch people, suddenly silence from the anti-crowd. Suddenly the fact its human made doesn't matter.
Well of course - slop is slop, regardless of whether a human made it or an app.
That doesn't mean all AI content is slop (it's not), and it certainly doesn't mean all human content is slop.
Ah it's bullshit. That guy's game flopped, has mixed reviews, and he was posting that on twitter for good boy points. Wouldn't be surprised if that was some friend or coworker who posted the reviews just for the devs to farm interest.
I mean from the description it sounds like this game is slop regardless of whether it was made by humans or AI.
I'm not anti AI by any means but I still appreciate when people disclose that they've used it; I've seen some pretty cool AI works but it still doesn't compare to works made by human hands.
Yeah, agreed. It's just VERY unfortunate when people misuse and abuse that transparency.
Problem is you will be relentlessly harassed by people no matter what, regardless of why or how much you've used it for any reason, and somehow their most extreme positions are boosted by people as the acceptable measure only because its a popular opinion to have that. Thus it excuses it, no matter how baseless it is. Even if you say people are harassing you or doxxing you, they won't care.
You can say I used it for x,y,z valid reasons to help ability, and they will brush it off to call it slop and "pick up a pencil."
Its an issue where the arguments don't actually matter, but just the popular position does and gives people without good arguments a pass to just be assholes to the acceptable position they oppose.
A big company like Activision has no real reason to use it unless it helps their coding, but personal use from random people online gets treated the same.
What a stupid fucking post. AI labels won't just help customers but developers too. As the AI label would let you know which games use AI and which don't, as well as how AI is used in said game. Transparency in how AI is used in game development is absolutely something people should want, especially Generative AI.
It's a double edged sword in any case, as abuse isn't addressed properly, regardless of what tools anyone uses to develop the game.
0.1 hours. Are we really gonna pretend like some guy playing a game for 6 minutes max and giving it a bad review proves in any way that disclosure is useless? Let’s say it is, then why care about it either way?
It matters because even if indie devs do "everything right" aka make a game where the only 'AI use' is standard programmed NPC behavior, some random idiot can just claim "you used too many em-dashes! AI!" or "no human would make something intentionally surreal and stylized. AI!" and then devs will be forced to put out a statement to cater to all those online who would gladly call them out and boycott/harass them. For something they did not use.
Don't you see how that's fucked up?
Just look at Failbetter Games, the acclaimed studio creator of Fallen London, Sunless Seas and Sunless Skies, getting harassed on tumblr for.... art stylization on promotional art for their next game with much of the notes on tumblr are bloggers pointing out how the so-called "AI tells" are artistic embellishments that make perfect sense for a painting.
There is no winning if someone can outright say "No, I didn't use this," and people simply claim that they are lying because "No one would intentionally create like that" and get away with harassment.
https://www.tumblr.com/failbettergames/801358773147074560/dragonthroaway12345-failbettergames
https://www.tumblr.com/bogwitch-extraordinaire/801708981726887936/failbettergames-dragonthroaway12345