Hii! I know there are antis stalking this place like it's their only source of food, so let me explain to you all why fiction DOES NOT affect reality. I am up for CIVIL conversations, but you cannot change my mind.

Hello! I'm Mutt. I am 18 years old, and for 16 years of my life, i had been an antishipper, and a closeted darkshipper. As far as I knew as an anti, i was following the crowd and ignoring the truth.

My life had become better after being open about who i am. I can say 100% fictional characters do not affect my morality in any way.

In order for something to affect reality, it has to be something most people think is true. We are all aware that irl incest is gross, so let's start there.

A wincest shipper (for example) doesn't indulge in their fictional ship and then go out into the world and want siblings to all kiss each other. They do this because they are ABLE to separate themselves from fictional taboo interests.

Let's move on to something you, as an anti, may relate to! Did you know that even YOU indulge in dark fiction? If you like to watch slasher films, that is dark fiction. Most people who watch slasher films find the slasher attractive to some degree. Does that make you go out into the world and find REAL murderers attractive? No it does not, because in your head you are able to separate the two.

Before you start yelling at me about people who CANT separate the two, i'll speak on it. There are people in the world who CANNOT separate fiction and reality, these people are the following; Children, The elderly (after deteriorating), and people who are extremely mentally ill. YOU are none of those i assume. Those types of people should not be indulging in dark fiction, it is that simple.

Anything i haven't made clear feel FREE to ask me, i'd love to talk things out!

  • I like the nuance you included here

  • guys im sorry i just wanted civil conversations _''

  • you guys want to have dark fiction and topic but don't want to properly and maturely handle those dark fic topics 🫣

  • You have good points but there are some flaws i'd like to mention.

    Firstly, you have to understand that "antis" are not a single united proup of people (thats why i hate the term). Me for example found out about this sub because of a cringe reddit algorythms that suggested it because i'm on antishipper sub. I say this because proshipper communities tend to have some view on what beliefs are being held by every antis and act as it's a general truth when it's usually not. There is a widly accepted belief that dark topics should not be discussed in a favorable manner and should not have communities around them (especially filled with minors). I better suggest to be able to approach every "enemy" of yours with more consideration of what they believes are. If they say some nonsense like "you are pedos! you should not live!" these are usually children that want to be useful and cant talk in a civil manner. But there are a lot of people that are concerned about obviously poorly unmoderated darkshipper places being vulnerable to be existing in for people of demographics you named: "Children, The elderly (after deteriorating), and people who are extremely mentally ill.". It's not bad to call out this even if these people are not from your community.

    "In order for something to affect reality, it has to be something most people think is true. We are all aware that irl incest is gross, so let's start there."

    Believing that it's "obvious" for all people that incest is gross is a stretch. There are adult sane people that can with full awareness support incest. And, I will disagree that for something to affect reality it should be widely supported, if only you dont assume that only reality we should care about is the one affecting everyone. Reality is easily affected for small social groups - friend circles, families, religion.

    "A wincest shipper doesn't indulge in their fictional ship and then go out into the world and want siblings to all kiss each other."

    But you know what is being done? Proshippers (that basically defend and include darkshippers in a way its basically inseparable) start freely discussing dynamics in their spaces usually without consideration of who can exist within their communities ("We do not have to self-censor ourselves because there is a possibility of one unwell person misinterpreting the way i kin this dark relationship!") or, worse, do that in communites that are not being regulated at all. This is why you see people here calling out this.

    "Let's move on to something you, as an anti, may relate to! Did you know that even YOU indulge in dark fiction? If you like to watch slasher films, that is dark fiction. Most people who watch slasher films find the slasher attractive to some degree. Does that make you go out into the world and find REAL murderers attractive? No it does not, because in your head you are able to separate the two."

    Very, very good point! People do that. But most people do not engage in darkship communities and are basically passively pro-art and pro-shipping without ever interacting with people specifically discussing ships or dark dynamics. So, there is no reason to go deeper into what is presented than what author tries to tell. Also, most media has some sort of censorship or content warnings.

    Thanks for providing possibility to tell this! I respect your right of opinion.

    I think you're really downplaying what the majority of antis do by calling them "children who want to be useful". And yes, it is the majority even if you personally do not do this. Stalking, mass harassment, often sexual harassment, death threats, suibating, and calling people pedophiles (often people who are victims themselves and can be triggered by this) is not accepting and you are in a community and not only accepts this behavior, but expects and promotes it to children. Were I you, I'd ask myself why I feel comfortable associating with this community. A table with 8 Nazis and one neutral party is a table with 9 Nazis. That's how it is when I see an anti who "totally isn't like the others."

    r/antiship

    show me where everything you included is supported here. And, okay, if not this one specific subreddit, show me the exact community full of antis that actively support this.

    I have a ton of links saved on twitter as well as a folder on my computer documenting my personal experiences. Not sure how to get all that to you, though I'd love to. Also, there's an anti sub masquerading as an anti pedo sub "antimap" that openly brigades a sub called "proshipclub" if you want to look into that. It is every community full of antis that supports this. Antiship was created to be against ships and they have always harassed others based on shipping since their inception. This isn't debatable, it's baked into their history and values.

    False dichotomy 

    Nothing false about this at all. It is verifiable fact.

    Nazis, really?

    You don't know what a comparison is? I'm not saying antis ARE Nazis. I'm saying that sitting at a table with people whose core value involves harassment makes you someone who supports harassment.

    Okay. Just say that. 

    Your lack of reading comprehension is not my problem.

    i was half asleep when i wrote this, and i do agree some of my points were wrong, I enjoyed reading your comments and criticisms!!

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    you can apply this logic to any kink. you wouldnt brung up darkships in a casual convo about shipping the same way you wouldnt bring up liking cnc in a casual convo about for example vanilla sex. shipping is an online thing anyway.

    Because you’re clearly an anti i’m removing your post because it’s either hate, annoying, or because you’re antiship in general and we don’t permit antishippers here.

  • I've been sent pictures of wojacks being hung wearing a trans T-Shirt when I was younger. 

    It shaped my perspective on reality. Sure Wojak was fiction but I won't pretend it did not leave a scar. 

    There are people who want that to happen to me in real life and these pictures make a justification for it. 

    Dark fiction is highly censored and many groups get excluded from viewing it (children). Religion is a good example of fiction effecting reality. 

    Im not an Anti but you have to privlage of not having fiction weaponised againts you. 

    Edit: I am a former Anti but nuance is lost on both sides sometimes.  

    sorry thag happened to you btw :(

    notice where i said children shouldn't be indulging in dark fiction... I noticed that fiction can mess up ypunger people's minds..

    “Children shouldnt be indulging in dark fiction” you’d be surprised finding out the owner of this sub is just 13 years old

    oh dear!! i didn't know this, as i'm not active here or on reddit at all basically!! thank you for bringing this to my attention!

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    This is a subreddit for proshippers who enjoy darkships. Off topic posts will be removed, and users harassing our users will be reported to reddit.

    Yes ans many ppl are saying "we dont care" aswell.

    This sub is against TOS if it doesnt ensure child safety. Weather you like it or not this isnt the place for you if you cant comply with terms of use. Im sure there are other places for them but its clearly stated this isnt it

    I am a new member of the mod team, and had these same concerns. I joined the team on the contingency that these issues would be addressed. If you see any issues with our new subreddit description or rules and have any feedback please send it to us via modmail. Thank you.

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    Your statement is inaccurate. We've recently updated our subreddit description and rules.

    This is a subreddit for proshippers who enjoy darkships. Off topic posts will be removed, and users harassing our users will be reported to reddit.

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    This is a subreddit for proshippers who enjoy darkships. Off topic posts will be removed, and users harassing our users will be reported to reddit.

  • I would like to argue that your opinion, while acceptable, is wrong. Fiction does indeed impact reality, as noted by the increase in fear around shark attacks after the release of Jaws despite the fact that only around 64 shark bites (not even deaths!) are recorded annually. This isn’t necessarily a case of just a few people being unable to distinguish fiction from reality — I remember living through everyone being terrified of sharks and not understanding why because i had done a lot of research on them for a project in school and thought they were cool.

    Or, how about when a character becomes such a deep attachment that you start collecting merchandise of them? Or how movie scores can make you cry, or how a character can influence someone to be better. What about children watching a superman movie and then wanting to be heroes themselves or actively trying to help their family more?

    I’ll even share examples from myself (who technically likes “dark fiction” but respectful dark fiction not just fetishising my trauma). I’m a CSA victim who grew up being groomed by and repeatedly exposed to sex via my mother until i was assaulted by her boyfriend at 9. I started consuming dark fiction (specifically incest and “shota/loli”) around this time, and internalised that i must have liked my assaulter and invited this behaviour, because my freeze response (to a child who didn’t even know there was more than fight or flight) read similarly to the submission shown in these pages. Then, upon interacting in places where this sort of thing was drawn and discussed about, i was groomed further by multiple older men and exploited even further, and again, thought it was completely okay. I definitely should not have been consuming it and had predisposing factors, but it had an impact on my reality in multiple ways.

    Even beyond the traumatic side of the effects fiction has had on me, there’s been good too, mostly coming from me being a very unsocialised autistic child. I didn’t have friends as a kid so i learned that i wanted to do good for others and protect them from playing Sonic Heroes religiously as a kid. I mimicked a lot of the inflections and sentence structure of my favourite characters, i learned how to use new words from them. they made me feel not alone in a time where i had no one in the world because my family abused me and i was too strange for the kids at school or in my apartment complex.

    I still enjoy seeing disturbing content written about in media. Hell, i love FNAF, and the entire plot line of that series is about child murder and the gory consequences of it. I’m old enough to be able to tell the difference between content that mentions a dark subject and content that romanticises/fetishises that content and to use the tools at my disposal to block the latter from my online experiences. I try to avoid media involving CSA or incest these days as it’s mostly just triggering, but i imagine there’s media that tackles the topics respectfully (or even if they don’t, they don’t go out of their way to try to showcase it as hot). I mean hell, even being able to have genuine triggers based off of media is a way of showcasing that fiction, especially fictional depictions of REAL concepts, can impact reality — just maybe not as intensely as rewriting someone’s moral code just from watching a BAD Guy do BAD Things on a screen, or by watching gay people in a show and becoming gay.

    First of all, I want to say that I'm incredibly sorry that you went through that. That sounds tremendously difficult. I'm leaving this up because we do not want to erase stories like these. I am however locking this because I do not trust others to be civil in responding to this.

    If you find it harmful personally I suggest you avoid it. I am also a victim and a member of the mod team, and without before discovering darkship content I felt incredibly alone, shamed by the very same people who claim to be protecting children who don't realize they condemn victims as loudly as they condemn perpetrators with the intensity of their hatred. Through the same content that led to further suffering for you, I found acceptance and healing. We all have our own paths and our own stories.

    To others reading this, if this sounds like you, I do encourage you to seek therapy to help you work through this as well. No one deserves to have to go through alone. But also, no one deserves to feel alone. Fiction of all kind can be a resource for many and we as a sub will support it.

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    Hi! I'm a grown man! What are you talking about!

    Because you’re clearly an anti i’m removing your post because it’s either hate, annoying, or because you’re antiship in general and we don’t permit antishippers here.

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    Fiction does not affect reality in the ways you’re saying it does

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    This is a subreddit for proshippers who enjoy darkships. Off topic posts will be removed, and users harassing our users will be reported to reddit.

    How so? Give me your talking points.

    It may not be intentional, but people who proship and darkship may accidentally end up glorifying abuse and other bad stuff. Don't get me wrong I know where you're coming from, most people probably have the common sense to differentiate fiction from reality, but there are some people who might see this and think it's okay in real life too. No, i'm not saying this to try to get you to change your mind, i'm just saying why I and a lot of other people think it's wrong. A lot of people are more sensitive to this kind of content and a lot more aren't, and glorifying it and saying it's okay can hurt people. I'm not saying that, "oh you're a pedophile, and you should go kill yourself", i'm just saying that please be careful of your depictions of certain people and situations

    Maybe the people sensitive to this stuff shouldn't be in these spaces if it makes them uncomfortable then lol. Shouldn't have to accommodate for those people. Just block or ignore said person instead of forcing them to change to suit you.

    Well, a lot of times stuff like this can show up on their feed.

    And it’s their job to scroll past it

    I'm not gonna say anything else because like I said i'm not trying to change anybody's mind. Hope you're doing okay and I hope you have a good rest of your day

    You too man, stay safe /gen

    Because you’re clearly an anti i’m removing your post because it’s either hate, annoying, or because you’re antiship in general and we don’t permit antishippers here.

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    what happened to me in real life has nothing to do with fiction, in fact that is part of the reason i do this

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    You have clearly not read my post at all, and you also fail to see how insensitive this is. You are no better than anyone just because you apply your morals to fiction.

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    Fiction should not affect your morals. Fictional pedophilia isn't real, as thoughts are not crimes, and it is JUST fiction. Either actually read my post or get out of here. I said i was open to CIVIL conversation, not you spewing hatefulness while not even reading my post.

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    You're being unreasonably insensitive. You clearly don't know the definition of the word pedophile, and even if you DID you would not comprehend it.

    Do not harass other users. This goes both ways, if you see an anti please report them and move on without interacting. Do not feed the trolls.

    Because you’re clearly an anti i’m removing your post because it’s either hate, annoying, or because you’re antiship in general and we don’t permit antishippers here.

    You’d think you’d have enough brain to understand that fiction doesn’t affect reality and anyone who supports irl harm to minors is not welcomed in the community

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    Those are called pedophiles, you don’t need to look at fiction to be attracted to kids but many pedos do. Just because real predators like fiction to does not mean that fiction is what “turned them” into a pedo. Do you think the horror genre is to blame for murderers? Or that shooting games are to blame for school shooters?

    Because you’re clearly an anti i’m removing your post because it’s either hate, annoying, or because you’re antiship in general and we don’t permit antishippers here.

    Discussions of darkships must be fictional only. Do not encourage immoral or illegal behavior.