“[his father] was initially charged with first-degree murder, but the charges were reduced to voluntary manslaughter following a diagnosis of a brain tumor.” - Wikipedia
They’re listing facts in a tone that probably only make sense in their head. They’re saying he was in a hospital for 6 years after his initial trial in 1984. Later he was released from the hospital and lived until 1998. He did not spend time in jail but probably should have. Which is debatable, even, in my opinion. His father was have knowin to had said if any of my children lay a hand on me I’ll kill them. And on the night of Marvin Gay’s death, Marvin had beaten his father to a pulp. So he grabbed his shot gun
The reason for the shooting is even deeper than that. The father belonged to a strange sect of Christianity that held fathers as not only the head of the household but almost as a godlike deity. The father was also a cross-dresser which was against the church dogma that he otherwise followed so closely. He had many demons.
But Marvin knew that laying a hand on his dad would require his father to use fatal force per the religion. When he berated his father and raised his hand, he knew he was committing suicide. It was almost as sure as suicide by cop.
Just look up the case of Charles whitman, the university of Texas tower sniper. Hes a textbook case of a normal person going on a killing spree due to a brain tumor.
Is that the guy who directly told multiple doctors that he thought something was wrong with his brain, got slagged off every time, then basically wrote "Hey, you should check my brain for a tumor or something after you kill me.", in his last written note?
"I talked with a Doctor once for about two hours and tried to convey to him my fears that I felt come overwhelming violent impulses. After one visit, I never saw the Doctor again, and since then have been fighting my mental turmoil alone, and seemingly to no avail."
It's pretty fucked up how nothing has changed regarding mental health. You can find posts almost exactly like this on reddit every day.
Modern mental health is set up to catch exactly that kind of stuff. If you tell your primary care DR you have homicidal impulses you're worried you will act on, you won't be going home that day. The DR excuses themself and the next person you see are police and an ER psych evaluator. I was one of these evaluators and now work in the psych units, we absolutely would get this guy a brain scan and hold him involuntarily. In fact, organic causes to breakthrough conditions gets any mental health professional excited.
Okay, its gotten ever so slightly better. They throw you in a psych facility for 3 days. Which can be nice. But then you come out and you you have a giant medical bill and the medicine they prescribed costs money again. My wife has been 1013'd 3 times. Never did her much good. I think "prevent" is a strong word, but it does delay it.
Voluntary manslaughter is charged similarly to murder. It’s just more accurate if you know the definition of voluntary manslaughter, and if he had a brain tumor, most felony sentences would likely be a life sentence. There’s nothing wrong with getting the charges right
The state has to prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. In the case of first degree murder, they have to prove 1) you killed them, 2) you meant to kill them, and 3) that the killing was premeditated.
If the state could prove that he killed him, but it was an open question if it was him doing it or the brain tumor doing it…that’s reasonable doubt.
They could prove voluntary manslaughter (he killed him, he meant to do the thing that killed him, he knew or ought to have known that doing the thing that killed him could kill him) with having to prove the extra intent and premeditation.
That’s exactly how the system is supposed to work. Not on outrage or vibes, but on what the state can prove.
The dad was always a piece of shit, and he'd moved back in with his parents for a while for some reason, I think there was a fight between the dad and his mom, and Marvin said or did something, literally like called the dad something, or slammed the door, and the dad came up with a gun and shot Marvin for his "disobedience". It was effed up. I'm sure the full story is linked around here.
If he was trying to kill himself because of a terminal illness and couldn’t do it, and then his dad did it for him after he requested it? I mean, both are fucking out of their minds in that situation, but yeah, I wouldn’t be that surprised if it got him less time.
I am not saying this is what happened, it’s a hypothetical
It's mitigating circumstances if the victim had a tumor and did something to provoke or force another person to act differently. It's a defensive strategy commonly used.
This is peak brain rot American phrasing. It reads like his race is being used as a tragedy multiplier lol. As if being young, immensely talented, and dead wasn’t already enough, but also being black somehow maxes out the suffering stat. It’s performative and patronising, whether intended or not. You can acknowledge injustice without turning someone’s skin colour into an emotional prop.
Their point might be that historically mental health issues in the black community aren’t treated with the same compassion and grace that they are in other demographics. Pray that shit away and whatnot
I read his wiki and it just said his dad had a brain tumor so they basically gave him probation. So wasn't sure if he really was from an abusive household or if the tumor caused his dad to act out of character.
For what it's worth, the Brain Tumour theory seems spotty.
After the shooting he was given a medical exam, and they picked up a small benign brain tumour, operated on him and removed it.
There's never been any confirmation that the tumour was responsible, the pattern of abuse doesn't track as Marvin's dad was abusive his entire life, he wasn't some regular guy who gradually descended into being a dick. Given the size and location of it near the pituitary gland, a tumour that impacted his mood/temper would have had other symptoms first like worsening of vision and headaches years before any substantial mood changes occurred, but none of these were documented by him or his family/friends.
During the trial his lawyers argued that "neurological issues, depression and health issues" may have mitigated his responsibility, media sources then latched right on to that and combined with the reported brain tumour ended up turning that into the definitive headline when it's more likely that he was just an abusive alcoholic dick, that coincidentally got a small tumour.
My nana used to say this to my mother (who actually took herself out of this world). She changed it up to make it work for me: “I didn’t bring you into this world but I can take you out of it”.
She was fun at parties. No contact with her now. Just waiting for the call she’s passed.
She just turned 80.
I waited 20 years to finally be able to use one of her other favorite lines in an Uno Reverse: “You made your bed, now lie in it”
(Her favorite go-to if I got into a jam. Like getting pregnant at 18)
Our last conversation was her complaining no one is there for her, she has no family, etc.
The vindication of the last thing I say to her being “You’ve made your bed…” 😈
Where posts tend to overreach is the implication that this proves he orchestrated his own death in a literal or legal sense. What it really reflects is Marvin’s severe depression, self destructive behavior, and passive suicidal thinking near the end of his life. He had talked about wanting to die and had engaged in reckless behavior, but there is no evidence he explicitly planned or instructed his father to kill him.
Also, the claim that he attempted suicide “numerous times” is less solid. He struggled with addiction, paranoia, and depression, and he engaged in dangerous behavior, but confirmed repeated suicide attempts are not documented.
• The quote is very likely real
• He was mentally unwell and expressed a wish to die
• He did not formally plan or arrange his murder
• Social media versions often dramatize it beyond what the evidence supports
My dad died a few days before April 1 but it took a while to make arrangements because it was sudden, and I remember worrying that people would think I was making a distasteful joke when I shared the funeral times and some recollections of my dad! Thankfully, if anyone thought that they kept it to themselves, and everyone who needed to know he died already knew.
Had a friend's dad who was the biggest jokester, always laughing and cracking jokes
Sadly, he died completely unexpectedly and randomly on April 2nd. When their sister called and told me at first I thought it was a joke, and then told her it was super appropriate that he made his own (Name's) Fool's Day and then we laughed and cried
unrelated but when i was ~10 my cousin fell down a pretty long flight of stairs and when i met her at the bottom her crying sounded like laughter and i actually thought she was laughing ( for making a fool out of herself or so i thought ) so i laughed "with her" for a hot second until i realized she was actually crying🙈
my friend was diagnosed with cancer on april 1st and when she told all of her friends they thought it was just a joke in poor taste at first. she died less than three years later
Sad, sad story. And I couldn't believe it started with another tragedy with Tammi Terrell who was his partner in crime. You can hear her in "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" along with Marvin.
After her death from a brain tumor at 24, he spiraled into depression and turned to drugs.
I can't even imagine the music that these two individuals would have produced had she stayed alive. Such a tragedy all around.
That is a fucked up amount of trauma for anyone, let alone just 24 years. Poor lady! That is so very incredibly sad. I can imagine how much that would devastate him.
thank you very much for taking the time to write this comment.
I'm ashamed to say that I had never heard of her and - after reading the comment above yours - probably wouldn't have looked into her much, because it was so matter-of-fact and sad.
your comment gives hints about her amazing personality while telling us just enough additional details to pique curiosity, and you even provided links to help us on the path.
what a marvelous blessing to bestow upon internet strangers by gifting them knowledge of such a powerful artist, and upon her spirit and memory by bringing attention to her life and work. thank you. 🥂 well done.
No, no, thank you for taking the time to write this comment. I love Tammi she’s one of my big idols and it bothers me that she doesn’t get discussed as much as she should, and when she is it’s always in Marvin Gaye’s shadow. I remember a comment that really annoyed me on Reddit, when there was actually a post that talked about Tammi for a change, and one of the highest upvoted comments was trying to change the topic back to Marvin Gaye as if nobody ever heard of him and he is just a name you see on a Northern Soul compilation CD and not, well one of the famous and most influential musicians of all time.
Anyway. Your comment means a lot to me because when I try to bring up my idols like Florence Ballard or Tammi there isn’t always a lot of engagement or any at all and I just wonder if I’m just babbling about something only I’m interested in, so your comment is very reassuring. Anyway if just one person reads my comment and listens to Tammi and thinks “hey this is pretty good” or “wow she had some pipes” then that’s good enough for me.
I appreciate your comment. I love Tammi Terrell as well. She was talented in her own right way before she sang with Marvin.
I have the same bug a boo about posts about Marvin Gaye, it’s always about his death. The man was perhaps the greatest recording artist of all time and all people can remember is how he died. It’s annoying.
Tammi Terrell’s death was tragic. Her death sent Marvin into a deep depression but…..that depression gave birth to the greatest recording artist ever.
It was during this depression where Marvin stayed home nursing his depression that he discovered the technique of layering his vocals, harmonizing with himself to create deep layers of vocals and dual, sometimes competing melodies in one song.
What’s Going On was written in this period. Everything Marvin recorded after Tammi’s death was different. Listen to “You Sure Love To Ball:” there’s at least 3 melodies going on plus backing vocals and a very single voice is Marvin’s.
I’d argue that this is what changed Marvin from a singer to a recording artist. I think Tammi Terrell was his muse and he loved her dearly. Her death opened up something in him and I’m grateful for both of their gifts.
Otis was probably the greatest loss of music talent ever being so young. He was already singer songwriter producer and top of stax label. His catalog is amazing even to this day. His potential was immeasurable.
His version of A Change Is Going to Come breaks me just as hard the ten thousandth time I hear it as it did the first time I heard it. Definitely my favorite of all the amazing artists from that period.
Unfortunately that’s true, but in this case it does seem that Marvin’s estranged relationship with his father was the root of his pain and his final play was to use his own father to end it in a heartbreaking last message.
And in no way do I mean to not still be a parent and just love your kids instead of educating, disciplining and guiding them. But ultimately they have to know that you love them and I know as a single parent of two boys it can be easy to forget day to day and hard to express especially for emotionally challenged men who are too often expected to bury their feelings and emotions.
But tortured souls can give the world amazing art and Marvin certainly gave us music that gets me every time I listen to him.
I’ve been a single parent 14 years and my youngest is 17 and graduated high school early. But I don’t tell my kids I love them enough and when I read stories like this it just reminds that I can do better than just the basics.
My biological father was absentee and when I tried to have relationship later in life it was a bigger disappointment. Somehow I had a stepfather that found a way to be even worse so I really, really tried to be everything as a dad I never had. But my maternal grandfather was truly my biggest male role model and I realized after he passed many decades ago how much his constant positive support had on my psyche and my overall mental wellbeing as a kid and into my young adulthood. It really makes a difference when there’s a man in your life who tells you that you’re a good kid and a good person over and over.
100%. Your kids are lucky to have a dad with this level of awareness. Sounds like you’ve already done a huge amount to break the cycle of generational trauma. Of course you can do better, all of us can. But awareness is always the start, right? What do you imagine it would look/feel like to tell your kids you love them more often?
I’m not sure it would make much difference for us at this point other than having less regrets when it’s time to eventually move along so to speak. But I imagine it could potentially have a much larger impact on how they treat their children (if they have children eventually of course) and how those kids grow up and turn out as adults. And so on and so on. Generational trauma can be turned into generational patterns that perpetuate positivity instead. At least that’s what the glass half full side of my brain would like to believe.
I’ve seen this so many times. Yes love and a stable upbringing makes a huge difference. Yet if we focus exclusively on that, we ignore the many cases in which it didn’t save the subject from being a mental or emotional shipwreck.
Yes, look at The Reiners, RIP. From what I have read, the kids were raised in a loving environment, but the son who murdered them had drug addictions and depression.
I was just reflecting on this yesterday... I know from experience that deep struggles can badly distort how one reacts to positivity, and RR always is pictured with a huge smile on his face :'-( this whole thing breaks my heart from so many angles; it doesn't even seem real to me yet :-/
even the Reiners recognized that they had, despite their best intentions, made a horrible mistake by sending Nick to a troubled teen camp because they were worried he was on a bad path after he was at a party where another kid overdosed. from that linked comment:
[Rob] felt that they as parents were given horrible advice how to handle a teenager and instead of love and spending time together they just kept sending him away over and over again. 15 times to rehab alone.
his parents didn't directly abuse him, but they sent him to a place he couldn't leave, where he was abused. it undeniably changed him, and they regretted it the rest of their lives.
even the best parents can fuck up, and if their mistake is big enough, it can ruin lives.
I don't know if it's very rare. It is proven that the more episodes of childhood trauma a person experiences, the more likely they are to end up in prison (or an early death, higher rates of drug addiction and mental health problems, etc.) But childhood trauma isn't always a lack of love. It's also close family deaths and illnesses, witnessing violence, participating in violence with peers, non-parental physical and sexual abuse, etc.
So emotional neglect fucks people up. But so does other stuff. And people without inflicted trauma can sometimes fuck themselves up.
I guess it depends on what you mean by fucked up, but myself and a number of my friends had pretty decent childhoods, but are still mentally ill. I am suicidally depressed and I don’t think it has anything to do with my upbringing.
Mother, mother
There's too many of you crying
Brother, brother, brother
There's far too many of you dying
You know we've got to find a way
To bring some lovin' here today, yeah
😭
Edit: his quote implies he wanted his dad to shoot him ? I’m trying to think of alternative interpretations
“I got what I wanted…I couldn’t do it myself, so I had him do it.”
I'm going by memory here, but his father was an asshole. He would regularly get abusive with his family. One night his father was giving his mother a hard time, yelling at her for the whole house to hear. Marvin Jr told his father more or less leave his mother alone, and that whatever he was saying to her, say it to his face. Marvin Sr grabbed his gun and shot him.
No, he got involved in a fight between his parents and his father pulled the gun. I don’t know about his last words which my god makes the entire thing so much more tragic.
No, his father had always been violent and said if he was ever struck, he'd kill them. Marvin was depressed and had tried to commit suicide before. Marvin had also bought his dad a gun for Christmas. He purposefully antagonised his father into killing him
Honestly, having this extra context, I would suspect those weren't Marvin's last words at all, but rather part of the father's/family's defense of the father. Making it seem like Marvin wanted to die and pushed his father to do it would be total victim shaming, which from everything else said here, would absolutely be something his father would do. The question is whether or not Marvin's brother would've played into this narrative with his father.
I can think of at least six different ways to end it that do not involve handing your very abusive father a firearm.
Dude could've decided to kill the rest of the family after and a small portion, or at least some portion of that happening, wouldve been Marvin jrs fault for buying the gun and giving it to him.
Im firmly in the "people make their own choices and just having the gun doesnt make you likely to use it" but it definitely increases the chances if youre already unstable and have a history of violent behavior.
The father buying his own gun would be one thing but I cant imagine putting the rest of my family in that much danger because I couldnt end it myself or get someone else to help me in a way that doesnt put them in physical danger.
Idk, it seems selfish to me. I feel very bad, guy was/is an amazing artist, but jeez, how badly do you want to leave this earth that you do it in a way that couldve easily gotten his mother and other family killed at his abusive dads hands....Seems a bit nuts honestly
If its true (based on the wiki article, it seems solely based on what one witness said Gaye told him with his last words) then it seems more like Gaye assaulted his father to force him into a rage and kill Gaye.
That sucks, we lost a gorgeous genius. And for what? People, if you are in the wrong situation with the wrong people and want to die, LEAVE. I did. My life is SOOOO much better and I never think about suicide or wanting to be killed anymore. Hope this helps someone.
Not sure I buy this angle. At all. From the source (emphasis mine):
“As Frankie tended to his brother, he heard what he alleged to be Marvin’s final words. ‘I got what I wanted… I couldn’t do it myself, so I had him do it,’ Frankie claimed in his book Marvin Gaye, My Brother. ‘It’s good, I ran my race; there’s no more left in me.’”
So, the guy gets shot in the chest twice, waits for his brother and his brother's wife to run over from the guest house after hearing the shots, and is able to speak in a clear, cohesive, and self-reflective manner that just so happens to partially absolve the father? Even the source seems suspicious, as the emphasis indicates.
Yea, like sure, it could be true, why not. But it's also very common for family members to sort of, soften, a tragedy, even if they are really just deluding themselves.
Claiming that Marvin found some sort of peace helps the family (and, in this case, fans) deal with the situation better.
Of course its going to be alleged and claimed why are you emphasizing those words as if it proves anything? Do you think The room was supposed to have CCTV footage and audio recording 41 years ago?
This was claimed by Frankie, Marvin's brother. It's likely complete bullshit that was intended to lighten the sentence on his father, as Marvin was shot directly in the heart and lung, and died instantly. There is zero chance he was conscious and able to speak.
Also the music industry ripped him off, he had number one albums and was still broke cause the label had a fucking rip off contract, they made all the money and left him with debts that pushed him to do another album. Fucking assholes, he didn't deserve any of that.
Wasn’t there also a rumour that his father was abusing his mother who would not leave him so he decided to do this so the law would take his father away
Is this true though? Reads as a melodramatic Hollywood script. Idk I’m skeptical. It’s definitely possible that this was his true intention but idk about him verbalizing it.
This is directly from his brothers book, who ran in and found Marvin right after being shot. Marvin Gaye had struggles with suicide his entire life and prior to his death he was in a pretty bad place mentally and financially. Unfortunately this is likely true
Got ya. Yeah I knew he was suicidal and I heard the theory that it could’ve been intentional so to speak. Didn’t know about the quote though. Thanks for info. So sad.
I had no idea. Wild how things like this just fall away from public discourse and younger generations never even learn about it. I'm 43 and it's the first I've learned this 😩 Marvin was so talented, yet also so troubled. Rest easy.
Yep. When I was in 10th grade I did a report on Marvin Gaye and I learned this ‘conspiracy theory’, and did a deep dive into it. It really does make a lot of sense, including Marvin buying his father a handgun I believe days or weeks before.
I had no idea. SO basically he argued with his father to the point of getting himself to get him to shoot him. That's how mentally unwell you have to be to get to rile your parent so much that they shoot you. Kind of reminds me of Stir Crazy and Samuel L Jackson playing a crackhead and his father having enough and shooting his own son like this.
The source comes from Frankie Gaye’s own book, Marvin Gaye, My Brother. Frankie and his wife Irine were in the Gaye guesthouse when they heard the gunshots. They immediately ran over to Marvin’s aid.
Also, in the 1991 biography Divided Soul: The Life of Marvin Gaye, Jeanne Gaye (Marvin’s sister) told author David Ritz that “there was no doubt Marvin wanted to die.”
“[his father] was initially charged with first-degree murder, but the charges were reduced to voluntary manslaughter following a diagnosis of a brain tumor.” - Wikipedia
That’s fucking stupid
I'm guessing it's just "dude's gonna spend the rest of his life in the hospital and then die, let the hospital take his money instead of the State's".
Was in a hospital for 6 years, released and died in 1998. This happened in 1984. Prob should have locked him up.
Your comment is confusing af. Reads like the SAT questions “rearrange these sentences to make more contextual sense.”
They’re listing facts in a tone that probably only make sense in their head. They’re saying he was in a hospital for 6 years after his initial trial in 1984. Later he was released from the hospital and lived until 1998. He did not spend time in jail but probably should have. Which is debatable, even, in my opinion. His father was have knowin to had said if any of my children lay a hand on me I’ll kill them. And on the night of Marvin Gay’s death, Marvin had beaten his father to a pulp. So he grabbed his shot gun
The reason for the shooting is even deeper than that. The father belonged to a strange sect of Christianity that held fathers as not only the head of the household but almost as a godlike deity. The father was also a cross-dresser which was against the church dogma that he otherwise followed so closely. He had many demons.
But Marvin knew that laying a hand on his dad would require his father to use fatal force per the religion. When he berated his father and raised his hand, he knew he was committing suicide. It was almost as sure as suicide by cop.
no comma before the and makes it sound like he was released and died in the same year
Tbf, a brain tumor can drastically alter a person. Literally to the point where you would kill a loved one.
And the only difference between First Degree Murder and Voluntary Manslaughter is the amount of planning.
First degree murde requires planning, where as Voluntary Manslaughter is a heat of the moment thing.
And when commited with a gun, the minimum sentance for manslaughter is 4 years, though most (from what I've read) get more.
Just look up the case of Charles whitman, the university of Texas tower sniper. Hes a textbook case of a normal person going on a killing spree due to a brain tumor.
Is that the guy who directly told multiple doctors that he thought something was wrong with his brain, got slagged off every time, then basically wrote "Hey, you should check my brain for a tumor or something after you kill me.", in his last written note?
It was even in his suicide note:
It's pretty fucked up how nothing has changed regarding mental health. You can find posts almost exactly like this on reddit every day.
Modern mental health is set up to catch exactly that kind of stuff. If you tell your primary care DR you have homicidal impulses you're worried you will act on, you won't be going home that day. The DR excuses themself and the next person you see are police and an ER psych evaluator. I was one of these evaluators and now work in the psych units, we absolutely would get this guy a brain scan and hold him involuntarily. In fact, organic causes to breakthrough conditions gets any mental health professional excited.
Okay, its gotten ever so slightly better. They throw you in a psych facility for 3 days. Which can be nice. But then you come out and you you have a giant medical bill and the medicine they prescribed costs money again. My wife has been 1013'd 3 times. Never did her much good. I think "prevent" is a strong word, but it does delay it.
Voluntary manslaughter is charged similarly to murder. It’s just more accurate if you know the definition of voluntary manslaughter, and if he had a brain tumor, most felony sentences would likely be a life sentence. There’s nothing wrong with getting the charges right
Also, both crimes require Mens Rea anyways which requires being sane.
Not at all.
The state has to prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. In the case of first degree murder, they have to prove 1) you killed them, 2) you meant to kill them, and 3) that the killing was premeditated.
If the state could prove that he killed him, but it was an open question if it was him doing it or the brain tumor doing it…that’s reasonable doubt.
They could prove voluntary manslaughter (he killed him, he meant to do the thing that killed him, he knew or ought to have known that doing the thing that killed him could kill him) with having to prove the extra intent and premeditation.
That’s exactly how the system is supposed to work. Not on outrage or vibes, but on what the state can prove.
Why is it stupid?
Lawyers love this one simple trick
It's more common than you may think. In my town a lady murdered her kid by smothering them but charges were reduced when they found a heart defect
no it’s not
Good thing you & the reactionaries upvoting you aren't legal personnel.
Why do you say that?
How did Marvin "get him to do it"?
The dad was always a piece of shit, and he'd moved back in with his parents for a while for some reason, I think there was a fight between the dad and his mom, and Marvin said or did something, literally like called the dad something, or slammed the door, and the dad came up with a gun and shot Marvin for his "disobedience". It was effed up. I'm sure the full story is linked around here.
Did the father have the tumor or did marvin?
You think they'd lower it if it turned out the victim had the tumor?
If he was trying to kill himself because of a terminal illness and couldn’t do it, and then his dad did it for him after he requested it? I mean, both are fucking out of their minds in that situation, but yeah, I wouldn’t be that surprised if it got him less time.
I am not saying this is what happened, it’s a hypothetical
It's mitigating circumstances if the victim had a tumor and did something to provoke or force another person to act differently. It's a defensive strategy commonly used.
Some people believe there's a difference between cold blooded murder and a requested mercy killing.
I never knew this
Same. I knew his father shot him, but I’d never heard this about his last words. Or even that he’d attempted suicide.
Me neither. I didn't know the sad tragedy of a very talented young black man dying could be made *worse* and somehow it is *worse* than I thought.
Yes. Dying isn’t the worst, just the most.
Dying is definitely not the worst thing, unfortunately
The worst part is the hypocrisy
Really cause I thought the worst part was all the raping
It took me a moment to realise this was that Norm bit not a reference to Gaye's life. We keep learning dreadful things about famous people
I hate learning famous things about dreadful people.
I didn't even know he was sick!
love a good norm quote in the wild
-opens eyes-
Huh, what is that?! Oh, My God, its a Cosby cock!
HYPOCRISY!!!
Well it's bad enough so let people die in peace.
huh
The most what?
This is peak brain rot American phrasing. It reads like his race is being used as a tragedy multiplier lol. As if being young, immensely talented, and dead wasn’t already enough, but also being black somehow maxes out the suffering stat. It’s performative and patronising, whether intended or not. You can acknowledge injustice without turning someone’s skin colour into an emotional prop.
Ding ding ding.
Their point might be that historically mental health issues in the black community aren’t treated with the same compassion and grace that they are in other demographics. Pray that shit away and whatnot
I feel this way about young Polish men, myself.
Me either. I knew his dad had told him many times "I brought you into this world, I can take you out"
Was he an abusive psycho?
Pretty much, yeah.
Well, he shot and killed his own son, so
I read his wiki and it just said his dad had a brain tumor so they basically gave him probation. So wasn't sure if he really was from an abusive household or if the tumor caused his dad to act out of character.
For what it's worth, the Brain Tumour theory seems spotty.
After the shooting he was given a medical exam, and they picked up a small benign brain tumour, operated on him and removed it.
There's never been any confirmation that the tumour was responsible, the pattern of abuse doesn't track as Marvin's dad was abusive his entire life, he wasn't some regular guy who gradually descended into being a dick. Given the size and location of it near the pituitary gland, a tumour that impacted his mood/temper would have had other symptoms first like worsening of vision and headaches years before any substantial mood changes occurred, but none of these were documented by him or his family/friends.
During the trial his lawyers argued that "neurological issues, depression and health issues" may have mitigated his responsibility, media sources then latched right on to that and combined with the reported brain tumour ended up turning that into the definitive headline when it's more likely that he was just an abusive alcoholic dick, that coincidentally got a small tumour.
My nana used to say this to my mother (who actually took herself out of this world). She changed it up to make it work for me: “I didn’t bring you into this world but I can take you out of it”.
She was fun at parties. No contact with her now. Just waiting for the call she’s passed. She just turned 80.
I’m so sorry for your loss. And… congrats in advance on the next one.
Dang what a beach. Tell her you’re rubber and she’s glue and laugh. Hope that pisses her off. Yeesh
I waited 20 years to finally be able to use one of her other favorite lines in an Uno Reverse: “You made your bed, now lie in it” (Her favorite go-to if I got into a jam. Like getting pregnant at 18) Our last conversation was her complaining no one is there for her, she has no family, etc. The vindication of the last thing I say to her being “You’ve made your bed…” 😈
That was Cliff Huxtable.
Wait...Marvin Gaye's dead?!
At least we still have Bowie
Too soon! 😭
Wait what?! What about Wham!?
Apparently someone didn’t wake you up before they went
before they went-went*
I didn't even know he was sick
Because it’s exaggerated:
Where posts tend to overreach is the implication that this proves he orchestrated his own death in a literal or legal sense. What it really reflects is Marvin’s severe depression, self destructive behavior, and passive suicidal thinking near the end of his life. He had talked about wanting to die and had engaged in reckless behavior, but there is no evidence he explicitly planned or instructed his father to kill him.
Also, the claim that he attempted suicide “numerous times” is less solid. He struggled with addiction, paranoia, and depression, and he engaged in dangerous behavior, but confirmed repeated suicide attempts are not documented.
• The quote is very likely real • He was mentally unwell and expressed a wish to die • He did not formally plan or arrange his murder • Social media versions often dramatize it beyond what the evidence supports
Why the fuck did you just copy and paste chat GPT.
Why the fuck are you a real person?
Don't you know where you are?!
LOL "We don't take too kindly to humans around here, git out... you heard me, I said git!"
Go on now Skeeter
I dont think it’s misleading or overreaching at all
Neither did Marvin
This is very sad, but it is wild that he died on April 1st and others thought the announcement of his death was an April Fool's joke.
My dad died a few days before April 1 but it took a while to make arrangements because it was sudden, and I remember worrying that people would think I was making a distasteful joke when I shared the funeral times and some recollections of my dad! Thankfully, if anyone thought that they kept it to themselves, and everyone who needed to know he died already knew.
Had a friend's dad who was the biggest jokester, always laughing and cracking jokes
Sadly, he died completely unexpectedly and randomly on April 2nd. When their sister called and told me at first I thought it was a joke, and then told her it was super appropriate that he made his own (Name's) Fool's Day and then we laughed and cried
unrelated but when i was ~10 my cousin fell down a pretty long flight of stairs and when i met her at the bottom her crying sounded like laughter and i actually thought she was laughing ( for making a fool out of herself or so i thought ) so i laughed "with her" for a hot second until i realized she was actually crying🙈
😭
Same with me and my uncle. Sorry for your loss.
An extra layer on my experience - my bday is April 1st.
6th grade birthday suckkkkked
My dad died ON April 1st and I know exactly what you mean.
Mine too, a few years ago now. My mom and I laughed and called it his best joke. In a horrible sad moment we got to have a little giggle together.
He WOULD die on April 1st. It was just like him.
I'm sorry for your loss!
Same to you! Thank you.
my friend was diagnosed with cancer on april 1st and when she told all of her friends they thought it was just a joke in poor taste at first. she died less than three years later
Same thing happened to Mitch Hedberg. Announced on his website on April 1st.
Yes, it’s very sad. I’ve always found it even more striking that he died on April 1st and his birthday was the very next day, April 2nd.
Sad, sad story. And I couldn't believe it started with another tragedy with Tammi Terrell who was his partner in crime. You can hear her in "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" along with Marvin.
After her death from a brain tumor at 24, he spiraled into depression and turned to drugs.
I can't even imagine the music that these two individuals would have produced had she stayed alive. Such a tragedy all around.
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That pretty much broke Marvin when she died. He wanted to save her and sadly the brain tumor took her away.
That is a fucked up amount of trauma for anyone, let alone just 24 years. Poor lady! That is so very incredibly sad. I can imagine how much that would devastate him.
thank you very much for taking the time to write this comment.
I'm ashamed to say that I had never heard of her and - after reading the comment above yours - probably wouldn't have looked into her much, because it was so matter-of-fact and sad.
your comment gives hints about her amazing personality while telling us just enough additional details to pique curiosity, and you even provided links to help us on the path.
what a marvelous blessing to bestow upon internet strangers by gifting them knowledge of such a powerful artist, and upon her spirit and memory by bringing attention to her life and work. thank you. 🥂 well done.
No, no, thank you for taking the time to write this comment. I love Tammi she’s one of my big idols and it bothers me that she doesn’t get discussed as much as she should, and when she is it’s always in Marvin Gaye’s shadow. I remember a comment that really annoyed me on Reddit, when there was actually a post that talked about Tammi for a change, and one of the highest upvoted comments was trying to change the topic back to Marvin Gaye as if nobody ever heard of him and he is just a name you see on a Northern Soul compilation CD and not, well one of the famous and most influential musicians of all time.
Anyway. Your comment means a lot to me because when I try to bring up my idols like Florence Ballard or Tammi there isn’t always a lot of engagement or any at all and I just wonder if I’m just babbling about something only I’m interested in, so your comment is very reassuring. Anyway if just one person reads my comment and listens to Tammi and thinks “hey this is pretty good” or “wow she had some pipes” then that’s good enough for me.
I appreciate your comment. I love Tammi Terrell as well. She was talented in her own right way before she sang with Marvin.
I have the same bug a boo about posts about Marvin Gaye, it’s always about his death. The man was perhaps the greatest recording artist of all time and all people can remember is how he died. It’s annoying.
I hope people know more of her duets with Marvin, Mountain is just scratching the surface of the amazing songs they performed.
Or of her incredible work as a solo singer.
Tammi Terrell’s death was tragic. Her death sent Marvin into a deep depression but…..that depression gave birth to the greatest recording artist ever.
It was during this depression where Marvin stayed home nursing his depression that he discovered the technique of layering his vocals, harmonizing with himself to create deep layers of vocals and dual, sometimes competing melodies in one song.
What’s Going On was written in this period. Everything Marvin recorded after Tammi’s death was different. Listen to “You Sure Love To Ball:” there’s at least 3 melodies going on plus backing vocals and a very single voice is Marvin’s.
I’d argue that this is what changed Marvin from a singer to a recording artist. I think Tammi Terrell was his muse and he loved her dearly. Her death opened up something in him and I’m grateful for both of their gifts.
This is the essential context to the MG story, Tammi’s death broke him profoundly
Shit, I only just learned that Otis Redding died in his 20s, months before Dock Of The Bay even got released!
That's why there are no lyrics at the end of the song just whistling.
Otis was probably the greatest loss of music talent ever being so young. He was already singer songwriter producer and top of stax label. His catalog is amazing even to this day. His potential was immeasurable.
His version of A Change Is Going to Come breaks me just as hard the ten thousandth time I hear it as it did the first time I heard it. Definitely my favorite of all the amazing artists from that period.
Check out Al green live for the rock n roll hall of fame a change is gonna come. His vocals are truly a gift to all.
And now you've passed on that cursed knowledge to me as well. I'll just go sulk around for a while I suppose.
Wait till you find out how old Ritchie Valens was when he died after his hit "La Bamba" . . . (17)
next thing you will find out about Sam Cooke and how he died.
TIL
If you’re a parent all I can say is just love your kids unconditionally and make sure they know you do.
Fwiw, many parents have done/still do this and its not even remotely enough
Unfortunately that’s true, but in this case it does seem that Marvin’s estranged relationship with his father was the root of his pain and his final play was to use his own father to end it in a heartbreaking last message.
And in no way do I mean to not still be a parent and just love your kids instead of educating, disciplining and guiding them. But ultimately they have to know that you love them and I know as a single parent of two boys it can be easy to forget day to day and hard to express especially for emotionally challenged men who are too often expected to bury their feelings and emotions.
But tortured souls can give the world amazing art and Marvin certainly gave us music that gets me every time I listen to him.
Sounds like you are doing great! Good job!
I’ve been a single parent 14 years and my youngest is 17 and graduated high school early. But I don’t tell my kids I love them enough and when I read stories like this it just reminds that I can do better than just the basics.
My biological father was absentee and when I tried to have relationship later in life it was a bigger disappointment. Somehow I had a stepfather that found a way to be even worse so I really, really tried to be everything as a dad I never had. But my maternal grandfather was truly my biggest male role model and I realized after he passed many decades ago how much his constant positive support had on my psyche and my overall mental wellbeing as a kid and into my young adulthood. It really makes a difference when there’s a man in your life who tells you that you’re a good kid and a good person over and over.
100%. Your kids are lucky to have a dad with this level of awareness. Sounds like you’ve already done a huge amount to break the cycle of generational trauma. Of course you can do better, all of us can. But awareness is always the start, right? What do you imagine it would look/feel like to tell your kids you love them more often?
I’m not sure it would make much difference for us at this point other than having less regrets when it’s time to eventually move along so to speak. But I imagine it could potentially have a much larger impact on how they treat their children (if they have children eventually of course) and how those kids grow up and turn out as adults. And so on and so on. Generational trauma can be turned into generational patterns that perpetuate positivity instead. At least that’s what the glass half full side of my brain would like to believe.
Do it more often, even in a cheesy "we know Dad.." kind of way.
It'll be worth it, guaranteed.
I’ve seen this so many times. Yes love and a stable upbringing makes a huge difference. Yet if we focus exclusively on that, we ignore the many cases in which it didn’t save the subject from being a mental or emotional shipwreck.
In those cases how do we know their upbringing was in fact so “loving and stable” or what you mean or anyone means by “Loving” varies widely.
Yes, look at The Reiners, RIP. From what I have read, the kids were raised in a loving environment, but the son who murdered them had drug addictions and depression.
I was just reflecting on this yesterday... I know from experience that deep struggles can badly distort how one reacts to positivity, and RR always is pictured with a huge smile on his face :'-( this whole thing breaks my heart from so many angles; it doesn't even seem real to me yet :-/
More like schizophrenia which is an organic brain disease
even the Reiners recognized that they had, despite their best intentions, made a horrible mistake by sending Nick to a troubled teen camp because they were worried he was on a bad path after he was at a party where another kid overdosed. from that linked comment:
his parents didn't directly abuse him, but they sent him to a place he couldn't leave, where he was abused. it undeniably changed him, and they regretted it the rest of their lives.
even the best parents can fuck up, and if their mistake is big enough, it can ruin lives.
Life is complicated and often cruel. Even well raised and loved kids end up in hard situations.
That’s very rare. It is far more common for children to be neglected and fucked up than loved and fucked up
I don't know if it's very rare. It is proven that the more episodes of childhood trauma a person experiences, the more likely they are to end up in prison (or an early death, higher rates of drug addiction and mental health problems, etc.) But childhood trauma isn't always a lack of love. It's also close family deaths and illnesses, witnessing violence, participating in violence with peers, non-parental physical and sexual abuse, etc.
So emotional neglect fucks people up. But so does other stuff. And people without inflicted trauma can sometimes fuck themselves up.
I guess it depends on what you mean by fucked up, but myself and a number of my friends had pretty decent childhoods, but are still mentally ill. I am suicidally depressed and I don’t think it has anything to do with my upbringing.
And don't shoot them twice in the chest.
Jokes like these make think Norm Macdonald is looking up right now, thinking, "Hey, I'm covered in dirt! This isn't a better place at all!"
Also immediately made me think of Norm somehow.
We miss you, Norm.
And don't murder them
And don't shoot them twice in the chest.
This is not even close to being enough anymore.
Mother, mother There's too many of you crying Brother, brother, brother There's far too many of you dying You know we've got to find a way To bring some lovin' here today, yeah 😭
Farther, farther we don't need to escalate.
The lyric is actually "father, father" (not "farther"), making Marvin's story even more ironic.
Brutal.
Wait so he asked his dad to kill him? And he did?
Edit: his quote implies he wanted his dad to shoot him ? I’m trying to think of alternative interpretations “I got what I wanted…I couldn’t do it myself, so I had him do it.”
He was defending his mother from physical abuse and marvin knew the danger/risk.
He also bought the gun that was used to kill him.
Six-year suspended sentence...
WTF
I'm going by memory here, but his father was an asshole. He would regularly get abusive with his family. One night his father was giving his mother a hard time, yelling at her for the whole house to hear. Marvin Jr told his father more or less leave his mother alone, and that whatever he was saying to her, say it to his face. Marvin Sr grabbed his gun and shot him.
No, Marvin starting fighting and kicking his father. Then, after they were separated, his father grabbed his gun and shot him.
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The whole situation is fucked, never knew the backstory but that’s just wow.
No, he got involved in a fight between his parents and his father pulled the gun. I don’t know about his last words which my god makes the entire thing so much more tragic.
No, his father had always been violent and said if he was ever struck, he'd kill them. Marvin was depressed and had tried to commit suicide before. Marvin had also bought his dad a gun for Christmas. He purposefully antagonised his father into killing him
Honestly, having this extra context, I would suspect those weren't Marvin's last words at all, but rather part of the father's/family's defense of the father. Making it seem like Marvin wanted to die and pushed his father to do it would be total victim shaming, which from everything else said here, would absolutely be something his father would do. The question is whether or not Marvin's brother would've played into this narrative with his father.
I can think of at least six different ways to end it that do not involve handing your very abusive father a firearm.
Dude could've decided to kill the rest of the family after and a small portion, or at least some portion of that happening, wouldve been Marvin jrs fault for buying the gun and giving it to him.
Im firmly in the "people make their own choices and just having the gun doesnt make you likely to use it" but it definitely increases the chances if youre already unstable and have a history of violent behavior.
The father buying his own gun would be one thing but I cant imagine putting the rest of my family in that much danger because I couldnt end it myself or get someone else to help me in a way that doesnt put them in physical danger.
Idk, it seems selfish to me. I feel very bad, guy was/is an amazing artist, but jeez, how badly do you want to leave this earth that you do it in a way that couldve easily gotten his mother and other family killed at his abusive dads hands....Seems a bit nuts honestly
"a bit nuts" I guessed you missed the part about several unsuccessful suicide attempts. Gaye was not mentally well.
I didnt, that was intended sarcastic "a bit" nuts when its obviously very fucked.
Glad im not the only one who is confused as hell.
Allegedly. Usually, you can't trust these sorts of claims
ya then dad got off scott free
No he just bought his dad the gun for his protection and picked a fight with him.
If its true (based on the wiki article, it seems solely based on what one witness said Gaye told him with his last words) then it seems more like Gaye assaulted his father to force him into a rage and kill Gaye.
No, still cold blooded murder.
Source
He was a genius, but his life was hard and he knew his father hated his lifestyle and would put him down for it. Sad really.
I mean, my dad is a piece of shit on multiple levels. I'd kill him before I let him kill me though.
To think his dad lived another 14 years after killing his son. Never served time but had to live over a decade with what he did
That sucks, we lost a gorgeous genius. And for what? People, if you are in the wrong situation with the wrong people and want to die, LEAVE. I did. My life is SOOOO much better and I never think about suicide or wanting to be killed anymore. Hope this helps someone.
Not sure I buy this angle. At all. From the source (emphasis mine):
“As Frankie tended to his brother, he heard what he alleged to be Marvin’s final words. ‘I got what I wanted… I couldn’t do it myself, so I had him do it,’ Frankie claimed in his book Marvin Gaye, My Brother. ‘It’s good, I ran my race; there’s no more left in me.’”
So, the guy gets shot in the chest twice, waits for his brother and his brother's wife to run over from the guest house after hearing the shots, and is able to speak in a clear, cohesive, and self-reflective manner that just so happens to partially absolve the father? Even the source seems suspicious, as the emphasis indicates.
Yea, like sure, it could be true, why not. But it's also very common for family members to sort of, soften, a tragedy, even if they are really just deluding themselves.
Claiming that Marvin found some sort of peace helps the family (and, in this case, fans) deal with the situation better.
Of course its going to be alleged and claimed why are you emphasizing those words as if it proves anything? Do you think The room was supposed to have CCTV footage and audio recording 41 years ago?
The claim is just hearsay. It has limited evidentiary value.
This was claimed by Frankie, Marvin's brother. It's likely complete bullshit that was intended to lighten the sentence on his father, as Marvin was shot directly in the heart and lung, and died instantly. There is zero chance he was conscious and able to speak.
I remember when this happened, what a sad day it was.
The attempts were linked to severe depression and cocaine addiction that plagued him in his final years.
He was shoot with the gun he had gifted his father
If there’s ever a Marvin Gaye biopic they better have Donald Glover play him
I honestly think the brother told people he said this to get the father a lighter sentence. 🤷🏽♀️
There was never any proof he said this. Just the brother saying he did. The alleged "last words" were even longer than this.
Also the music industry ripped him off, he had number one albums and was still broke cause the label had a fucking rip off contract, they made all the money and left him with debts that pushed him to do another album. Fucking assholes, he didn't deserve any of that.
Comments are fucking AI slop garbage
Brother, brother, brother
There's far too many of you dying
Wasn’t there also a rumour that his father was abusing his mother who would not leave him so he decided to do this so the law would take his father away
Is this true though? Reads as a melodramatic Hollywood script. Idk I’m skeptical. It’s definitely possible that this was his true intention but idk about him verbalizing it.
This is directly from his brothers book, who ran in and found Marvin right after being shot. Marvin Gaye had struggles with suicide his entire life and prior to his death he was in a pretty bad place mentally and financially. Unfortunately this is likely true
Got ya. Yeah I knew he was suicidal and I heard the theory that it could’ve been intentional so to speak. Didn’t know about the quote though. Thanks for info. So sad.
I had no idea. Wild how things like this just fall away from public discourse and younger generations never even learn about it. I'm 43 and it's the first I've learned this 😩 Marvin was so talented, yet also so troubled. Rest easy.
Suicide is illegal because damaging government property is against the law.
His dad had a brain tumor.
His brother saving the ass of his father.
What?! I’ve never heard this before
This is so sad. Poor Marvin.
When is someone going to make a movie about his life?
I didn’t know this part of it’s true.
Yep. When I was in 10th grade I did a report on Marvin Gaye and I learned this ‘conspiracy theory’, and did a deep dive into it. It really does make a lot of sense, including Marvin buying his father a handgun I believe days or weeks before.
I had no idea. SO basically he argued with his father to the point of getting himself to get him to shoot him. That's how mentally unwell you have to be to get to rile your parent so much that they shoot you. Kind of reminds me of Stir Crazy and Samuel L Jackson playing a crackhead and his father having enough and shooting his own son like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhn7kToBRAM
I never knew this. I’m surprised.
Absoluteky heartbreaking 💔. The horror and trauma his brother must have experienced.
Allegedly what he said.
His name meant "happy" but he was very unhappy.
So sad - such great talent.
Citation?
Such a loss
Incredibly sad, such a tremendous loss to the world. RIP
:(
Please list source
Is there a source?
The source comes from Frankie Gaye’s own book, Marvin Gaye, My Brother. Frankie and his wife Irine were in the Gaye guesthouse when they heard the gunshots. They immediately ran over to Marvin’s aid.
Also, in the 1991 biography Divided Soul: The Life of Marvin Gaye, Jeanne Gaye (Marvin’s sister) told author David Ritz that “there was no doubt Marvin wanted to die.”
Isn't it the same dude that impregnated the 15 y.o niece of his then girlfriend ? Yuck.