Bitcoin doesn't have any counterparty or default risk, only exchange rate risk and that only goes for the dominant few fiat currencies. By design, Bitcoin is always a risk-off asset. However, this only works when people understand that.
Gol could crash any day, heck we in Italy are fighting these days to unlock the world third biggest reserve... it take one of the states in the top 50 to flood the market
Sure and it has in the past. But it’s still around and people still wear it. I hope it crashes so I can buy more. And it likely will when we go through another major economic downturn
Which is why gold failed as a currency. In the age of instantaneous information exchange, the final of settlement of gold was too slow and expensive. This led to paper abstraction of gold to make up for those shortcomings and we all know how that ended.
People’s impatience isn’t the selling point for BTC. It’s the slowest blockchain there is. Gold isn’t going anywhere and it’s existed far longer than BTC has even been thought of. It’s why central banks are buying it, and Michael Saylor is buying BTC…lol
Impatience isn't the problem with gold. Its transfer carries too great a cost economically. That's why they tried abstracting it to use as a medium of exchange post-telegraph.
Bitcoin being relatively slow is a result of decentralization. Faster settlement requires greater resources and thus prices some people out of owning nodes. See Solana for an extreme on the other end of the spectrum.
I agree gold isn't going anywhere. It's been the proven store of value safe haven asset for millennia. The comparison of bitcoin to gold is based on the variables that make gold a good store of value: scarcity, divisibility, verifiability, fungibility, durability, and acceptance. One could make the argument that bitcoin is superior to gold in these variables other than acceptance, and acceptance of bitcoin is constantly growing.
I never said it was. Gold is superior to BTC because you don’t need a computer or digital device to use it. It also isn’t necessarily tracked thru exchanges or records. Gold is also decentralized, and has no other real precious metals competitor. BTC has too much competition and is losing the battle as technology progresses. The reason for BTC and its success, will eventually be its demise.
Gold is superior to BTC because you don’t need a computer or digital device to use it
This is a fair argument if you expect us to lose access to those technologies. Bitcoin is a poor choice for doomsday scenarios. I don't believe we will lose access to those technologies, personally, but if we do I'm hedged with bullets and applicable skills. I don't believe gold will be very useful in this post-society hypothetical either.
It also isn’t necessarily tracked thru exchanges or records.
Neither is bitcoin, necessarily. It's trivial to buy it non-kyc using something like Bisq or RoboSats. This just isn't discussed much here because the prevailing mentality is Number Go Up not Freedom Go Up.
Gold is also decentralized, and has no other real precious metals competitor. BTC has too much competition and is losing the battle as technology progresses.
Agree with the first sentence, disagree that it doesn't also apply to Bitcoin. I've been hearing about all the new technology that will replace Bitcoin for a decade now. All have failed. None are even trying to replace Bitcoin at this point. They're all trying to succeed on a different axis. Bitcoin isn't going anywhere, and as it continues to succeed its Lindy effect will increase, further cementing its dominance. I've been watching this happen for 10 years and I'm more confident than ever that I'm right.
I don’t think losing access is what makes it superior. It never needed them in the first place. We still have places around that aren’t connected to the internet…and by the time everywhere is, we can already transfer fiat currency digitally.
Well that’s what makes a market. I’m happy for those that have made incredible money off BTC but it’s just not something I’d ever want to get into at this point. I do believe it will go the way of the monkey nft. If it survives for even 50 more years, I’ll be surprised.
and by the time everywhere is, we can already transfer fiat currency digitally.
As someone who appreciates gold, you should be able to understand why the ability to transfer fiat isn't going to negatively affect Bitcoin. The most important characteristic of Bitcoin is its credibly enforced hard capped supply. Fiat's continued "success" will bode well for bitcoin, as a necessary component of fiat's success is its continual debasement.
I do believe it will go the way of the monkey nft.
Then you don't understand what separates bitcoin from the scams in the space (namely the monetary properties I listed above, backed by the most powerful computer network humans have ever created).
Yes but anyone can create another version of a hard cap supply. It’s like labubus in a way. It’s the hot thing. But fads fade. So many BTC people said gold is dead. Well, doesn’t seem to be the case.
And you must have missed my comment on tech progression… BTC will be broken by quantum computing. And a new form of digital currency will need to exist.
Yes but anyone can create another version of a hard cap supply.
Yes. Many have tried. The difference is that Bitcoin is decentralized. Decentralization isn't something you can program in. It's a physical process in the real world. Bitcoin had the advantage of being the first mover and had natural, grassroots decentralization as a result. This process is very difficult to replicate without a centralized entity behind it, thus making the project inherently centralized. Bitcoin's decentralization is a critical component of its value proposition.
BTC will be broken by quantum computing. And a new form of digital currency will need to exist.
Bitcoin will be updated to fix the vulnerability. One proposition for how to do so is BIP360.
So many BTC people said gold is dead.
And so many gold people are saying BTC is dead. Neither were right.
Not a safe haven, not an inflation hedge. Simply a speculative risk asset (a poorly performing one for 2025 at that).
Short it then...
Kind of a paradox to call crypto (the riskiest asset class) a ‘safe haven’ in the first place
Bitcoin doesn't have any counterparty or default risk, only exchange rate risk and that only goes for the dominant few fiat currencies. By design, Bitcoin is always a risk-off asset. However, this only works when people understand that.
LOL. Risk off asset? LOL umm what if you bought at 150k?!
We are not there yet, but as you said: exchange rate is the risk. Besides that your Bitcoin will be your Bitcoin. No default or counterpart risk.
Gold is tangible. BTC is not
Gol could crash any day, heck we in Italy are fighting these days to unlock the world third biggest reserve... it take one of the states in the top 50 to flood the market
Sure and it has in the past. But it’s still around and people still wear it. I hope it crashes so I can buy more. And it likely will when we go through another major economic downturn
Which is why gold failed as a currency. In the age of instantaneous information exchange, the final of settlement of gold was too slow and expensive. This led to paper abstraction of gold to make up for those shortcomings and we all know how that ended.
People’s impatience isn’t the selling point for BTC. It’s the slowest blockchain there is. Gold isn’t going anywhere and it’s existed far longer than BTC has even been thought of. It’s why central banks are buying it, and Michael Saylor is buying BTC…lol
Impatience isn't the problem with gold. Its transfer carries too great a cost economically. That's why they tried abstracting it to use as a medium of exchange post-telegraph.
Bitcoin being relatively slow is a result of decentralization. Faster settlement requires greater resources and thus prices some people out of owning nodes. See Solana for an extreme on the other end of the spectrum.
I agree gold isn't going anywhere. It's been the proven store of value safe haven asset for millennia. The comparison of bitcoin to gold is based on the variables that make gold a good store of value: scarcity, divisibility, verifiability, fungibility, durability, and acceptance. One could make the argument that bitcoin is superior to gold in these variables other than acceptance, and acceptance of bitcoin is constantly growing.
That being said, I own both.
I never said it was. Gold is superior to BTC because you don’t need a computer or digital device to use it. It also isn’t necessarily tracked thru exchanges or records. Gold is also decentralized, and has no other real precious metals competitor. BTC has too much competition and is losing the battle as technology progresses. The reason for BTC and its success, will eventually be its demise.
This is a fair argument if you expect us to lose access to those technologies. Bitcoin is a poor choice for doomsday scenarios. I don't believe we will lose access to those technologies, personally, but if we do I'm hedged with bullets and applicable skills. I don't believe gold will be very useful in this post-society hypothetical either.
Neither is bitcoin, necessarily. It's trivial to buy it non-kyc using something like Bisq or RoboSats. This just isn't discussed much here because the prevailing mentality is Number Go Up not Freedom Go Up.
Agree with the first sentence, disagree that it doesn't also apply to Bitcoin. I've been hearing about all the new technology that will replace Bitcoin for a decade now. All have failed. None are even trying to replace Bitcoin at this point. They're all trying to succeed on a different axis. Bitcoin isn't going anywhere, and as it continues to succeed its Lindy effect will increase, further cementing its dominance. I've been watching this happen for 10 years and I'm more confident than ever that I'm right.
I don’t think losing access is what makes it superior. It never needed them in the first place. We still have places around that aren’t connected to the internet…and by the time everywhere is, we can already transfer fiat currency digitally.
Well that’s what makes a market. I’m happy for those that have made incredible money off BTC but it’s just not something I’d ever want to get into at this point. I do believe it will go the way of the monkey nft. If it survives for even 50 more years, I’ll be surprised.
As someone who appreciates gold, you should be able to understand why the ability to transfer fiat isn't going to negatively affect Bitcoin. The most important characteristic of Bitcoin is its credibly enforced hard capped supply. Fiat's continued "success" will bode well for bitcoin, as a necessary component of fiat's success is its continual debasement.
Then you don't understand what separates bitcoin from the scams in the space (namely the monetary properties I listed above, backed by the most powerful computer network humans have ever created).
Yes but anyone can create another version of a hard cap supply. It’s like labubus in a way. It’s the hot thing. But fads fade. So many BTC people said gold is dead. Well, doesn’t seem to be the case.
And you must have missed my comment on tech progression… BTC will be broken by quantum computing. And a new form of digital currency will need to exist.
Yes. Many have tried. The difference is that Bitcoin is decentralized. Decentralization isn't something you can program in. It's a physical process in the real world. Bitcoin had the advantage of being the first mover and had natural, grassroots decentralization as a result. This process is very difficult to replicate without a centralized entity behind it, thus making the project inherently centralized. Bitcoin's decentralization is a critical component of its value proposition.
Bitcoin will be updated to fix the vulnerability. One proposition for how to do so is BIP360.
And so many gold people are saying BTC is dead. Neither were right.
Silver is rising faster than most altcoins
Bitcoin is man made pile of shit. Gold comes from the depths of the universe. Remember that.
Gold is a rock. Bitcoin was designed to be decentralized money. Remember that.
I feel a Degen for having both
No would consider bitcoin to be a safe haven asset if gold continues to reach ATH!
Gold rallies when fear spikes. Bitcoin wins when systems actually break.
Lol.
Delusional
No, Bitcoin wins when it becomes part of the system. It prevents the fiat system from breaking, if done right.
Zoom out gold trending to zero