What a load a nonsense. The only two players who are given license to assess the situation of the game are Root, a bloke with 10k runs under his belt, and Stokes, the captain at 6. 1, 2, 3 & 5 are instructed and told to bat in a certain fashion by Stokes and McCullum. When it comes off, they look a million bucks and Stokes gets hailed as a visionary captain. If those same tactics fail, which they will from time to time, more so against good opposition and when conditions dont suit mindlessly wafting at anything outside off stump; Stokes is the only one allowed to assess the situation, bat sensibly and try to dig England out of a hole of their own creation, for which he's given plaudits for being a rock and an anchor for trying valiantly to stave off yet another collapse.
It's selfish cricket from Stokes. All glory and no responsibility.
No, the Australian team is a side character and has no agency of their own and only win due to the silly and unforced mistakes of their far superior opponents.
Can confirm, I’ve watched every game of this series and at no point has Australia ever demonstrated they are a better or even good team.
“Pound for pound” England have better players and if they just sort out their batting, bowling, fielding, wicket-keeping, tactics, fitness, attitude, inability to absorb pressure and Wood’s knee then they’ll stop leaving the door ajar for those dastardly Australians to keep stealing the win
Australia are clear in the keeper category. They have better bowlers. They are better in the field (at catching for sure). Batting I feel is by far the closest and that’s where England is letting us down.
Overall mentality and game awareness, Australia is miles ahead.
It's tough to gauge batting because so much of it is impacted by bowling, because Australian batting looks better than English batting - only the first innings of the first Test saw England out-bat Australia, and two of the four innings have seen the Australians win with eight wickets in hand, which would presumably mean you'd expect them to just keep batting if they hadn't reached the score required. But is that because the Australian batters are better than the English, or because the English bowlers are shithouse? Certainly the Australians have had far fewer ducks in their top order, but again, is that inadequate English batting, superior Australian bowling, or weak English bowling?
I just don't agree that this England team should expect to lose in 2 days. It's an underperformance. Fine if that's what you think our level is, but some of us don't. We aren't expecting to win 5-0, but there's a middle ground somewhere.
Yep. We have an opener that averages 30. And a number three that averages 34. It's just not good enough. And we have an under bowled attack. And a shit spinner that goes for a ton every game.
An average of 30 and a strike rate of 30 is okay. You'd want more but the opener is sticking around, blunting the attack, making the bowlers work. Crawley's strike rate is over 60. On average he lasts 7-8 overs an innings.
It is also that, sure. But Stokes' hypocrisy needs to be highlighted here. I usually regard Nas to be an astute commentator but I feel he's giving Stokes undue credit here, framing it as if Stokes has been 'let down' by his batters playing in the exact manner that's been demanded of them.
And given they keep picking the 30 averaging Crawley based only on his ability to make a 170-ball 200 every three years, Stokes can't argue that he's wanted his batters to play in some other manner.
To me, it feels like Bazball is an engine that has super super high power, but zero torque. Against weak opposition it's great, because it can spin up to super high say 19000 RPM and produce a lot of power. But once they play a good team the engine just stalls because they don't have the torque to get anything going.
I agree with you for the most part, but I think you might be wrong in suggesting that the others don't have licence to assess the situation. They have picked a batting order of dashers who don't have very good defensive techniques so Stokes et al have been encouraging them to follow their instincts and adopt the 'see ball, hit ball' mentality. I don't think they are banned from being more cautious, just that it would not play to their strengths. If they wanted defensive players they would have picked someone like Sibley. If you have a sports car there's no point just using it to drive to the shops.
There's absolutely a time and a place for see ball, hit ball. Starcs first ball with the second new ball, under lights? Not the time nor the place. Expansive drives in the first over? Also not the time. Sometimes you've got to play defensive. Sometimes you have to leave. Sometime you bowl short, sometimes full, sometimes 5th stump line, sometimes stump to stump. It's a test match. If you've only got one way of playing (mindlessly wafting outside off stump) then any half decent coach and captain will exploit that and any good side will execute that. If you've only got one way of playing and don't have a plan B, C or D then your coach and captain have failed you. If it was just Crawley or just Pope that's on them but it's the whole top 7 bar Root and Stokes? At what point do England concede that Stokes and McCullum have failed England?
That’s the whole point of them, that if you really put your foot down you get something really impressive out of the car. You don’t get four of your eleven cars stalling out (four of your XI out for ducks while batting, none of your bowlers looking all that dangerous) and blowing smoke
The Bazball mentality is accelerator flat to the floor in the highest gear. No wonder they stall it in the garage. And if you do get a start you don't redline your Ferrari out of the garage and straight into a tree. You drive it sensibly when it's more dangerous and open it up when you get to the highway. They are built with accelerators, brakes and gears for a reason, sports cars even have better brakes than normal ones.
Thinking a sports car has to be driven at redline all the time is basically exactly why Bazball fails.
Stokes' arrogant and macho approach (My way or the...actually you can still stay because we haven't lined up anyone else) is pathetic. The man's a total blowhard.
Isn,t bit hypocrisy that he telling duckett , Crawley, pope and brook to esenentially throw kitchen sink but let's root and himself play normal somewhat , and tell jacks to be reserved . If I am England just have Crawley be designated bazballer , duckett , pope and brook are capable of play normal shots particular brook for what English fans he not like this domestically . The English place need understand the grounds are bigger but place it gaps no risk u can average 3.5 quite easily .look at best teams they have guy that absorbed pressure the Dravidian, pujara , cook for u guys , the purist shots guy kohli ,Smith, Clarke ,amala the aggressor Gilchrist , head,pant ,sehwag .there no balance in English side not enough variation with bat or ball
I've asked you to play this way, and pushed you to play this way, and now that playing that way isn't paying dividends I'm going to throw you under the bus so I can save face.
Christ I hope we win the next test so this shit can be put to bed.
Of course it's not going to be put to bed - Bazball will carry on in some kind of zombified form - even if it's a 5-0 (F.O.) hammering. England haven't lost 16 out of 17 as they did before Bazball so the management don't need to act 🤷.
Also the media over here (tbh most places really) love to build things up massively, then knock them down - people, sporting teams, institutions etc.etc. Stokes might stay even if Baz goes - for continuity and stuff😁
Once they lose (in conjunction with the revenues at UK Test grounds/ home viewing figures on Sky or TNT dropping) then they'll act. Successive 5-0, 4-0,4-0 losses in Aus haven't really brought about any change in results and a different build-up this time hit the rocks the first time the Aussies put any pressure on them - so I can see the narrative being "our players were crap - get different ones in to Bazball and things will be different next time" for the next four(?) years until they have to go to Aus again🤔
Why does he separate Stokes from the rest of the team? Hasn't he been struggling with the bat for a while as well? Nas seems to be suggesting that Stokes is handling situations better than the others but he hasn't been great with the bat either in recent times.
He always seem to get a pass I feel from the English media because he scores a great innings once in a blue moon or does a brilliant run out or something
Root was trolled so much for his record in Australia but Stokes is abysmal in India and Australia
Notorious aura farmer. I noticed it during the India series as well. Likes giving himself an extended spell of bowling when the conditions are spicy but not so keen when there is nothing on offer and/or it's a lost cause.
Exhibit A was the second innings of the first Test. Head was beginning to play his shots and Stokes brought himself on, got smashed around for two overs and then immediately took himself off and didn't bowl for the rest of the innings.
Total coward shit, especially considering that he'd bowled the fewest overs of any of England's bowlers in the first innings, and so should theoretically have been the freshest and most in-form after his 5-for.
The English media were convinced that this English side was going to win, despite there being no real evidence to suggest England had any real advantage. Stokes drunk the proverbial kool aid and is now under immense pressure to have this hyped up England side perform.
It’s hard to perform when your preparation has been poor and you’ve severely underestimated your opponent. Which, by the way, is one of the baffling aspects to England’s situation. Did England really think they were going to rock up to Australia, without any first class matches under their belt, and dominate a champion Australian side that has actual proven success. Turns out B players in champion sides step up too.
Ironically, Australia are playing way more like England was suppose to. Aggressive batting but also respecting good bowling.
5-nil fuck off is on the cards now and Stokes/England have no one to blame but themselves.
Our media does this with all of our sports teams. Hypes them to be the greatest ever to take the field before a tournament / series and then destroys them when they fail to reach that standard.
The English media were convinced that this English side was going to win,
I wouldn't take anything the English media says at face value tbh. They are the best in the world at the "build them up to knock them down" routine. They do it with literally everyone. It's their national pastime.
B players in champion sides is an insult. These guys are guys who've plied their trade in probably the most competitive first class system around for 5-10 years and in a lot of cases (Neser etc.) would have played much more if it wasn't for the greatest 4 man attack ever. England are so ridiculously up their own arse that by the time Stokes has realised, they're in way too deep. They've recognised that they've screwed up big time but are too arrogant to face the music and admit their wrongs. They'd much rather another 5-0 fuck off defeat where there's a 1% chance of getting a win and still losing 4-1, that will vindicate all their losses in their eyes, because 4-1 is still a better result to the last 3 series down under.
Calling them B players wasn’t meant to be an insult. I have a lot time for Doggett and Neser, and respect the amount of time they have grafted in Shield Cricket. They are international quality players but they are the reserves and behind Cummins and Hazlewood. I think some people will read my comment as denigrating towards Doggett and Neser but I want to make it clear that was not my intent, rather, it was simply meant to express that champion sides have role/reserve players who step up when their time comes.
I'm probably way off, but I get the feeling Stokes had a massive dopamine hit when he won that game in 2019, and he's been trying to chase that ever since, that's what the whole bazball thing is... He's trying to play Hero cricket, like he was the hero that day.
Only now the whole team has to play that way, or you're not on the team.
It isn't working here, and he has a meltdown where he does the complete opposite then suggests he has a weak team.
Dunno, that's just my read.
It’s insane to think if 8 pieces of luck hadn’t all gone exactly his way in 4 matches in 2019 then Headingley would likely be his last ever international.
The problem for England is before 2019 he was poor and since 2020 he’s been worse. He’s a lottery winner losing everyone money with his ‘investment’ advice.
Stokes’s fake hard man act is wearing incredibly thin. Being ‘tough’ gets you nowhere in cricket if you can’t execute on the basic things.
His ‘my dressing room is not a place for weak men’ rant was typical of a leadership group that will sacrifice everyone and everything before themselves. The irony is that if Stokes were truly stronger than the ‘weak men’ he vaguely gestures at, he would have the decency to fall on his sword.
He knocked out a drunk. I haven't boxed a single day in my life and I've been on estrogen for years and I could still probably knock out a drunk guy if I sucker-punched him. Not that I'd do that because I'm not looking to start fights with random people.
And a sucker punch is when somebody isn’t looking. He wasn’t “looking to start a random fight” that was the other guy’s, and why he was cleared of affray.
The prosecution asked to change the charges in court on the first day of proceedings, after having had months to consider the correct charges to prosecute. The judge rightfully told them to fuck off.
If that was not deliberate, those are some of the most incompetent lawyers ever to stand in an English court.
He's not guilty for the same reason I'd be not guilty if I stole a £50 note and you tried to prosecute me for grand larceny, then asked the judge if you could downgrade it to petty theft on the day.
I had to repeat the same point because you refused to understand it.
No I watched the video of him knocking the bloke out. What is this conspiracy theory 😂 the lawyers lost on purpose and the media covered it up? Holy shit.
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Gosh, why are the English media so reluctant to criticise Stokes? Nothing ever seems to be his fault. Its like they’re as blind to his faults as he himself is-he looks at the pitch with wide, bewildered eyes every time he gets bowled, the English media looks at the rest of the world with those same eyes anytime Stokes is criticized
It's amazing we can have national teams representing the best of the best over numerous years and they can't be at their best or they can't handle the pressure or they can't handle the skill. Much like how rugby has been in Australia, it's just baffling. It's not about an expectation to win all games but it's an expectation that the contest will be gripping because they are both... at their best.
You know the old saying "the fish rots from the head?" Yeah I'm feeling that it's time to move on from Key, McCullum, and Stokes. They did a pretty remarkable job breathing life into a very weak English setup, but now the pendulum needs to swing back a little bit.
I've long been expecting some sort of jonestown-esque ending to the bazball cult if they go down 3-0 by the third test. I'm not saying don't drink the gatorade, but maybe don't drink the gatorade
The suck off continues. “If you don’t perform you’re not my friend anymore”. What are these cunts 12 playing at school or something. Giv em a proppa rev up ay govna. 5 nill fuck off
If Stokes is thinking that his team is not made up of strong men, what does that make me - leader of weak men? Absolute ridiculous argument. NH is giving him a free pass.
The 5-0 is necessary to kill this joke of a cricketing methodology/subculture/whatever known as BazBall. Australia, please do your job and don’t take the foot off the pedal.
With due respect, why tf English people take themselves so seriously?? They always seem to do and say thing as they are doing it for greater cause.
Without any evidence of past performance or earned reputation, they have created Baz and Stokes as mythological creature, whose every move is genius and well thought and have a reason.
It is stupid cult and not limited to just Baz and his team, it includes their journalist and cricket pundits.
Do you have any idea how humiliating it is to create a sport and then watch everyone you've taught it too constantly whup your ass for nigh on 90 years??
No like I don't lol...can any english person elucidate?
Are the back up options as thin as Atherton says? I think we have stuck with a core group for quite a while but the Lions have shown there are some options
The Lions just got beaten by an innings and 127 runs and the only person in the team who actually delivered a standout performance is the bloke who already has 31 international caps (0 of which were for England).
So, it could be going better. Turns out systematically gutting all three formats of your domestic structure for the better part of a decade has consequences.
There were people in another sub unironically thinking that because Bethel finally made a 70 in a 3rd innings chasing a hopeless cause that he should be in at 3 and he can roll the arm over with some ‘elite’ spin (he averages 70 in county)
I say do it, who are we to shame those with such a kink for humiliation?
I'm a bit worried that Stokes' comment "a dressing room I'm captain of isn't a place for weak men" actually meant that he doesn't think there's any weak men in his dressing room and that the players aren't the problem. Anxiously awaiting the xi
England's batting has been nowhere near as good as Australia's bowling. Our bowling has been poor. The fielding has been diabolical. Shambolic even. It's like watching Konaté's defending this season. The lack of preparation reeks of arrogance. Aside from some outstanding individual performances I think Australia's batting has been pretty average (although still better than ours) but overall as a team their tactics and attitude/mentality sets them far apart from us. Make no mistake, folks, we're in for a hiding. Again!
It's like Luton were last season in the Championship. The powers-that-be presumed just turning up would be enough for success. The result? Relegation.
We have some very capable batsmen out there but being instructed to approach each innings like it's a T20 match is ridiculous. Personally I'd drop Duckett and bring in Sibley.
Eh? It was stokes that brought Jimmy and broady back into the fold after root had been leaving them out. At least try and look like someone who knows what they’re talking about
He's 42 years old. Might still be better than some of their current bowlers. But that's more an indictment of the current lot than an endorsement of Anderson.
Tbf Anderson has taken 700+ Test wickets and is still doing well in county at 42 so he's probably worth a bit of endorsing.
Anderson also invented the wobble seam delivery in order to be more of a threat with the Kookaburra, which doesn't often get mentioned when his influence on seam bowling is discussed.
What a load a nonsense. The only two players who are given license to assess the situation of the game are Root, a bloke with 10k runs under his belt, and Stokes, the captain at 6. 1, 2, 3 & 5 are instructed and told to bat in a certain fashion by Stokes and McCullum. When it comes off, they look a million bucks and Stokes gets hailed as a visionary captain. If those same tactics fail, which they will from time to time, more so against good opposition and when conditions dont suit mindlessly wafting at anything outside off stump; Stokes is the only one allowed to assess the situation, bat sensibly and try to dig England out of a hole of their own creation, for which he's given plaudits for being a rock and an anchor for trying valiantly to stave off yet another collapse.
It's selfish cricket from Stokes. All glory and no responsibility.
Has anyone ever considered that it might just be that the English team is shit at cricket?
No, the Australian team is a side character and has no agency of their own and only win due to the silly and unforced mistakes of their far superior opponents.
Can confirm, I’ve watched every game of this series and at no point has Australia ever demonstrated they are a better or even good team.
“Pound for pound” England have better players and if they just sort out their batting, bowling, fielding, wicket-keeping, tactics, fitness, attitude, inability to absorb pressure and Wood’s knee then they’ll stop leaving the door ajar for those dastardly Australians to keep stealing the win
Pound for pound, England will be better of course. It's their currency ffs. But comparing dollaroos for dollaroos, they are a bit shitter
Australia are clear in the keeper category. They have better bowlers. They are better in the field (at catching for sure). Batting I feel is by far the closest and that’s where England is letting us down.
Overall mentality and game awareness, Australia is miles ahead.
It's tough to gauge batting because so much of it is impacted by bowling, because Australian batting looks better than English batting - only the first innings of the first Test saw England out-bat Australia, and two of the four innings have seen the Australians win with eight wickets in hand, which would presumably mean you'd expect them to just keep batting if they hadn't reached the score required. But is that because the Australian batters are better than the English, or because the English bowlers are shithouse? Certainly the Australians have had far fewer ducks in their top order, but again, is that inadequate English batting, superior Australian bowling, or weak English bowling?
After the end of Australia’s first innings in the first test, England were ahead. And that’s the last time this series it will be seems like
Hey, don't forget England were 100 runs ahead with 9 wickets in hand during their 2nd innings!
What a disaster
This but unironically
Waddya mean “unironically?”
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As a fellow Australian I can confirm that yes, this is very clearly satire
Welcome to Indian cricket discourse, England.
Jokes apart, it seems like every set of fans think that way.
I just don't agree that this England team should expect to lose in 2 days. It's an underperformance. Fine if that's what you think our level is, but some of us don't. We aren't expecting to win 5-0, but there's a middle ground somewhere.
Yep. We have an opener that averages 30. And a number three that averages 34. It's just not good enough. And we have an under bowled attack. And a shit spinner that goes for a ton every game.
An average of 30 and a strike rate of 30 is okay. You'd want more but the opener is sticking around, blunting the attack, making the bowlers work. Crawley's strike rate is over 60. On average he lasts 7-8 overs an innings.
Somehow he has 60+ tests.
"Hello is that the police, I'd like to report a murder"
I have considered it and yes we are just not as good as we think we are
They can be shit at cricket and also have a shit game plan and shit coaching staff.
It is also that, sure. But Stokes' hypocrisy needs to be highlighted here. I usually regard Nas to be an astute commentator but I feel he's giving Stokes undue credit here, framing it as if Stokes has been 'let down' by his batters playing in the exact manner that's been demanded of them.
And given they keep picking the 30 averaging Crawley based only on his ability to make a 170-ball 200 every three years, Stokes can't argue that he's wanted his batters to play in some other manner.
We’re not shit at cricket. Australia are just a lot better!!
Hahaha , they're pretty shit aren't they. Or maybe they just trained too much? I can't wait to see Archers medium pacers
Very funny but it's just patently not true is it
Always have been
To me, it feels like Bazball is an engine that has super super high power, but zero torque. Against weak opposition it's great, because it can spin up to super high say 19000 RPM and produce a lot of power. But once they play a good team the engine just stalls because they don't have the torque to get anything going.
Thank you. You can also look at the one-run loss in Wellington as a case in point
I agree with you for the most part, but I think you might be wrong in suggesting that the others don't have licence to assess the situation. They have picked a batting order of dashers who don't have very good defensive techniques so Stokes et al have been encouraging them to follow their instincts and adopt the 'see ball, hit ball' mentality. I don't think they are banned from being more cautious, just that it would not play to their strengths. If they wanted defensive players they would have picked someone like Sibley. If you have a sports car there's no point just using it to drive to the shops.
There's absolutely a time and a place for see ball, hit ball. Starcs first ball with the second new ball, under lights? Not the time nor the place. Expansive drives in the first over? Also not the time. Sometimes you've got to play defensive. Sometimes you have to leave. Sometime you bowl short, sometimes full, sometimes 5th stump line, sometimes stump to stump. It's a test match. If you've only got one way of playing (mindlessly wafting outside off stump) then any half decent coach and captain will exploit that and any good side will execute that. If you've only got one way of playing and don't have a plan B, C or D then your coach and captain have failed you. If it was just Crawley or just Pope that's on them but it's the whole top 7 bar Root and Stokes? At what point do England concede that Stokes and McCullum have failed England?
There's a difference between players playing defensively and players mindlessly slashing through the void.
They haven’t really picked sports cars though. Sports cars actually perform.
That’s the whole point of them, that if you really put your foot down you get something really impressive out of the car. You don’t get four of your eleven cars stalling out (four of your XI out for ducks while batting, none of your bowlers looking all that dangerous) and blowing smoke
The Bazball mentality is accelerator flat to the floor in the highest gear. No wonder they stall it in the garage. And if you do get a start you don't redline your Ferrari out of the garage and straight into a tree. You drive it sensibly when it's more dangerous and open it up when you get to the highway. They are built with accelerators, brakes and gears for a reason, sports cars even have better brakes than normal ones.
Thinking a sports car has to be driven at redline all the time is basically exactly why Bazball fails.
Stokes' arrogant and macho approach (My way or the...actually you can still stay because we haven't lined up anyone else) is pathetic. The man's a total blowhard.
And jacks last game
Jacks batted well but he was being told what to do by stokes. He even missed a pullshot and stokes told him to put it away.
Only because he was batting with Stokes. If it was Jacks and Brook or Pope it would have been waft away.
Isn,t bit hypocrisy that he telling duckett , Crawley, pope and brook to esenentially throw kitchen sink but let's root and himself play normal somewhat , and tell jacks to be reserved . If I am England just have Crawley be designated bazballer , duckett , pope and brook are capable of play normal shots particular brook for what English fans he not like this domestically . The English place need understand the grounds are bigger but place it gaps no risk u can average 3.5 quite easily .look at best teams they have guy that absorbed pressure the Dravidian, pujara , cook for u guys , the purist shots guy kohli ,Smith, Clarke ,amala the aggressor Gilchrist , head,pant ,sehwag .there no balance in English side not enough variation with bat or ball
Duckett and Pope haven't got the cricket IQ to go beyond swing at everything. Crawley doesn't have the talent to follow through if he did.
Brooks is still young enough he could get there, but they are running his development.
GloryBoy 🥕🥊: It's all about, me, me, me. Please, look at me! I am so pretty! Love me! Want me!
Silvio (Seinfeld) knew.
I've asked you to play this way, and pushed you to play this way, and now that playing that way isn't paying dividends I'm going to throw you under the bus so I can save face.
Christ I hope we win the next test so this shit can be put to bed.
Of course it's not going to be put to bed - Bazball will carry on in some kind of zombified form - even if it's a 5-0 (F.O.) hammering. England haven't lost 16 out of 17 as they did before Bazball so the management don't need to act 🤷.
Also the media over here (tbh most places really) love to build things up massively, then knock them down - people, sporting teams, institutions etc.etc. Stokes might stay even if Baz goes - for continuity and stuff😁
Once they lose (in conjunction with the revenues at UK Test grounds/ home viewing figures on Sky or TNT dropping) then they'll act. Successive 5-0, 4-0,4-0 losses in Aus haven't really brought about any change in results and a different build-up this time hit the rocks the first time the Aussies put any pressure on them - so I can see the narrative being "our players were crap - get different ones in to Bazball and things will be different next time" for the next four(?) years until they have to go to Aus again🤔
Why does he separate Stokes from the rest of the team? Hasn't he been struggling with the bat for a while as well? Nas seems to be suggesting that Stokes is handling situations better than the others but he hasn't been great with the bat either in recent times.
He always seem to get a pass I feel from the English media because he scores a great innings once in a blue moon or does a brilliant run out or something
Root was trolled so much for his record in Australia but Stokes is abysmal in India and Australia
Notorious aura farmer. I noticed it during the India series as well. Likes giving himself an extended spell of bowling when the conditions are spicy but not so keen when there is nothing on offer and/or it's a lost cause.
Exhibit A was the second innings of the first Test. Head was beginning to play his shots and Stokes brought himself on, got smashed around for two overs and then immediately took himself off and didn't bowl for the rest of the innings.
Total coward shit, especially considering that he'd bowled the fewest overs of any of England's bowlers in the first innings, and so should theoretically have been the freshest and most in-form after his 5-for.
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England have always lionised their all-rounders. Botham, Flintoff and now Stokes.
Well his bowling is best ever but he's literally got the worst and most inconsistent output with the bat in the top 7
He's thrown them under the bus to save his arse. Call it. That's not Klopp at all
It’s pretty simple.
The English media were convinced that this English side was going to win, despite there being no real evidence to suggest England had any real advantage. Stokes drunk the proverbial kool aid and is now under immense pressure to have this hyped up England side perform.
It’s hard to perform when your preparation has been poor and you’ve severely underestimated your opponent. Which, by the way, is one of the baffling aspects to England’s situation. Did England really think they were going to rock up to Australia, without any first class matches under their belt, and dominate a champion Australian side that has actual proven success. Turns out B players in champion sides step up too.
Ironically, Australia are playing way more like England was suppose to. Aggressive batting but also respecting good bowling.
5-nil fuck off is on the cards now and Stokes/England have no one to blame but themselves.
Our media does this with all of our sports teams. Hypes them to be the greatest ever to take the field before a tournament / series and then destroys them when they fail to reach that standard.
It's coming home next year though
There certainly are rumours...
I've been reading in the papers that it's the best England football side ever so it should be a cake walk
I wouldn't take anything the English media says at face value tbh. They are the best in the world at the "build them up to knock them down" routine. They do it with literally everyone. It's their national pastime.
B players in champion sides is an insult. These guys are guys who've plied their trade in probably the most competitive first class system around for 5-10 years and in a lot of cases (Neser etc.) would have played much more if it wasn't for the greatest 4 man attack ever. England are so ridiculously up their own arse that by the time Stokes has realised, they're in way too deep. They've recognised that they've screwed up big time but are too arrogant to face the music and admit their wrongs. They'd much rather another 5-0 fuck off defeat where there's a 1% chance of getting a win and still losing 4-1, that will vindicate all their losses in their eyes, because 4-1 is still a better result to the last 3 series down under.
Calling them B players wasn’t meant to be an insult. I have a lot time for Doggett and Neser, and respect the amount of time they have grafted in Shield Cricket. They are international quality players but they are the reserves and behind Cummins and Hazlewood. I think some people will read my comment as denigrating towards Doggett and Neser but I want to make it clear that was not my intent, rather, it was simply meant to express that champion sides have role/reserve players who step up when their time comes.
Australia are Bazballing including throwing away wickets on stupid shots, just have much worse bowling and fielding to navigate.
Didn't you hear? They over-prepared. It's over for us, here comes the English fightback.
They over prepared. That’s the problem of course.
Absolute nonsense. They were predicting an even-ish contest.
They were predicting an even contest with Hoff and Cummins fit.
'Pound for pound, England have better players'
Yes, because Australians use dollars, mate
I'm probably way off, but I get the feeling Stokes had a massive dopamine hit when he won that game in 2019, and he's been trying to chase that ever since, that's what the whole bazball thing is... He's trying to play Hero cricket, like he was the hero that day. Only now the whole team has to play that way, or you're not on the team.
It isn't working here, and he has a meltdown where he does the complete opposite then suggests he has a weak team. Dunno, that's just my read.
It’s insane to think if 8 pieces of luck hadn’t all gone exactly his way in 4 matches in 2019 then Headingley would likely be his last ever international.
The problem for England is before 2019 he was poor and since 2020 he’s been worse. He’s a lottery winner losing everyone money with his ‘investment’ advice.
There is no way Stokes was getting dropped even if he didnt have his heroic performances.
He's the second highest ranked all rounder in the comp.
Stokes’s fake hard man act is wearing incredibly thin. Being ‘tough’ gets you nowhere in cricket if you can’t execute on the basic things.
His ‘my dressing room is not a place for weak men’ rant was typical of a leadership group that will sacrifice everyone and everything before themselves. The irony is that if Stokes were truly stronger than the ‘weak men’ he vaguely gestures at, he would have the decency to fall on his sword.
Yup, good leaders stand up for their team and are always ready to take the blame. They certainly don't throw anyone under the bus.
Completely agreed. A good leader is the first to take the blame and the last to take the credit. Stokes is the opposite.
I mean I agree, but he’s one punch sparked more people than I have in my life for a fake hard man
He knocked out a drunk. I haven't boxed a single day in my life and I've been on estrogen for years and I could still probably knock out a drunk guy if I sucker-punched him. Not that I'd do that because I'm not looking to start fights with random people.
Course you could 💪
And a sucker punch is when somebody isn’t looking. He wasn’t “looking to start a random fight” that was the other guy’s, and why he was cleared of affray.
He was cleared because the prosecution completely fucked up their job, possibly on purpose.
🙄 yeah alright
The prosecution asked to change the charges in court on the first day of proceedings, after having had months to consider the correct charges to prosecute. The judge rightfully told them to fuck off.
If that was not deliberate, those are some of the most incompetent lawyers ever to stand in an English court.
Yeah that doesn’t really explain why he wasn’t guilty. Being threatened by a couple of homophobic cunts does though.
Hard nut as well as a top end lawyer though! Fair play to you
He's not guilty for the same reason I'd be not guilty if I stole a £50 note and you tried to prosecute me for grand larceny, then asked the judge if you could downgrade it to petty theft on the day.
I had to repeat the same point because you refused to understand it.
Except it was the complete opposite of that situation, the CPS wanted to add on additional, far more serious, charges of assault.
Yeah you’re just repeating the same thing now, despite me already replying to that point. Have a nice day 👍🏼
Nope, I understood it and explain why you are wrong
You really fell for that shitty media story hook line and sinker
No I watched the video of him knocking the bloke out. What is this conspiracy theory 😂 the lawyers lost on purpose and the media covered it up? Holy shit.
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Gosh, why are the English media so reluctant to criticise Stokes? Nothing ever seems to be his fault. Its like they’re as blind to his faults as he himself is-he looks at the pitch with wide, bewildered eyes every time he gets bowled, the English media looks at the rest of the world with those same eyes anytime Stokes is criticized
It's amazing we can have national teams representing the best of the best over numerous years and they can't be at their best or they can't handle the pressure or they can't handle the skill. Much like how rugby has been in Australia, it's just baffling. It's not about an expectation to win all games but it's an expectation that the contest will be gripping because they are both... at their best.
Klopp the widely respected, experienced and successful football manager, or a different fella i dont know ?
You know the old saying "the fish rots from the head?" Yeah I'm feeling that it's time to move on from Key, McCullum, and Stokes. They did a pretty remarkable job breathing life into a very weak English setup, but now the pendulum needs to swing back a little bit.
I've long been expecting some sort of jonestown-esque ending to the bazball cult if they go down 3-0 by the third test. I'm not saying don't drink the gatorade, but maybe don't drink the gatorade
The suck off continues. “If you don’t perform you’re not my friend anymore”. What are these cunts 12 playing at school or something. Giv em a proppa rev up ay govna. 5 nill fuck off
If Stokes is thinking that his team is not made up of strong men, what does that make me - leader of weak men? Absolute ridiculous argument. NH is giving him a free pass.
The 5-0 is necessary to kill this joke of a cricketing methodology/subculture/whatever known as BazBall. Australia, please do your job and don’t take the foot off the pedal.
Except that Klopp's strategy doesn't involve continuous self-sabotage
What a load of bullshit. He’s covering his own arse.
Bollocks
He was a great manager. Hope copying his tactics work.
I think Nasser meant Slot not Klopp, because that's what Stoke's rebuke reminds me of. The way Slot managing Salah recently is quite similar to this.
With due respect, why tf English people take themselves so seriously?? They always seem to do and say thing as they are doing it for greater cause.
Without any evidence of past performance or earned reputation, they have created Baz and Stokes as mythological creature, whose every move is genius and well thought and have a reason.
It is stupid cult and not limited to just Baz and his team, it includes their journalist and cricket pundits.
Do you have any idea how humiliating it is to create a sport and then watch everyone you've taught it too constantly whup your ass for nigh on 90 years??
No like I don't lol...can any english person elucidate?
Can we please get stokes to retire after this test series ?
Are the back up options as thin as Atherton says? I think we have stuck with a core group for quite a while but the Lions have shown there are some options
The Lions just got beaten by an innings and 127 runs and the only person in the team who actually delivered a standout performance is the bloke who already has 31 international caps (0 of which were for England).
So, it could be going better. Turns out systematically gutting all three formats of your domestic structure for the better part of a decade has consequences.
There were people in another sub unironically thinking that because Bethel finally made a 70 in a 3rd innings chasing a hopeless cause that he should be in at 3 and he can roll the arm over with some ‘elite’ spin (he averages 70 in county)
I say do it, who are we to shame those with such a kink for humiliation?
I'm a bit worried that Stokes' comment "a dressing room I'm captain of isn't a place for weak men" actually meant that he doesn't think there's any weak men in his dressing room and that the players aren't the problem. Anxiously awaiting the xi
England's batting has been nowhere near as good as Australia's bowling. Our bowling has been poor. The fielding has been diabolical. Shambolic even. It's like watching Konaté's defending this season. The lack of preparation reeks of arrogance. Aside from some outstanding individual performances I think Australia's batting has been pretty average (although still better than ours) but overall as a team their tactics and attitude/mentality sets them far apart from us. Make no mistake, folks, we're in for a hiding. Again!
It's like Luton were last season in the Championship. The powers-that-be presumed just turning up would be enough for success. The result? Relegation.
We have some very capable batsmen out there but being instructed to approach each innings like it's a T20 match is ridiculous. Personally I'd drop Duckett and bring in Sibley.
In conclusion...I despair!
Turfing out Jimmy was in part because he was a leader in the bowling attack and Stokes didn't want to be challenged (I reckon at least)
Eh? It was stokes that brought Jimmy and broady back into the fold after root had been leaving them out. At least try and look like someone who knows what they’re talking about
He's 42 years old. Might still be better than some of their current bowlers. But that's more an indictment of the current lot than an endorsement of Anderson.
Tbf Anderson has taken 700+ Test wickets and is still doing well in county at 42 so he's probably worth a bit of endorsing.
Anderson also invented the wobble seam delivery in order to be more of a threat with the Kookaburra, which doesn't often get mentioned when his influence on seam bowling is discussed.
Just a quick sidebar, Anderson didn’t invent the wobble seam but he’s certainly a big reason it’s so widespread now
Okay, call him up then. The Aussies are going to laugh in your face, mind.