Not even that. Otherwise when we found ancient sites like Göbekli Tepe we wouldn't be surprised and we'd know who built them and why. And that was only 11000 years ish ago.
Ive had a tree blind made out of pressure treated wood that has been sitting up against the same pine tree for 40 years. So long the tree has started growing around the lumber in places. Of cpurse this is PT wood from the 80's though. They dont let em use those chemicals anymore.
Yep, I pulled 3 12’ 4x6’s out of the ground, they were about 2 feet deep and held up a carport built in the mid 80’s. The surface is barely scratched near ground level. I plan on re-using them. Todays lumber wouldn’t hold up like that
I don't even understand the idea of the theory. Why, PT. There are plenty of examples of wooden structures that are hundreds and hundreds of years old that as long as they are maintained are still intact. There are 350 year old houses in New England and 5 and 6 and 700-year-old houses in Europe all out of wood,
So I'm not sure what the question is. If you paint something and maintain it it will last forever. Old fashioned porches are 150 years old and if they have been maintained they're fine but if they're not they rot so what's the point
In Bremerton, WA there are a bunch of old houses that got painted with left over hull paint from the shipyard. Makes them durable as fuck but a nightmare to demo
Well your statement is correct but I don't have any idea what that has to do with its longevity Once it's under a painted film. You're talking two different things. Old lumber is dense and straight and maybe there is some sort of intrinsic rot resistance is what you're probably implying. But we're talking about not letting the water ever get to the wood. There are certain woods of course that have these capabilities of rot resistance cedar, redwood etc
I have had white cedar fencing in New England rot out and I have built fencing out of spruce springboard, which is really really cheap and rough sawn. And when I build out of springboard window boxes or facing, I paint the crap out of it and especially seal all the ends. Left alone in the garden and painted as sheathing it would rot away in a year or two but painted I've had some stuff standing for almost 30 years and still no problem. If it's properly enveloped with a paint film or sealer it's not going to rot. Moisture is the problem not the age of the wood or the tape of the wood necessarily for this experiment
Yeah, but how much of those structures' envelopes have been replaced over the years? Ship of Theseus and all that. Also OP'S doesn't mention repainting and maintaining it, so I'm not sure what their thoughts on that were.
The entire premise of “forever” is annoying. It’s Christmas so I’d rather it not bother me. Make your time spent with loved ones last longer than this stick of PT
Ever see a really old log cabin? Those survive hundreds of years without paint. Most paints aren’t durable enough to make a significant difference, but if the paint was infinitely durable the wood inside would last forever.
Most log cabins are oiled or stained on the exterior for the same protective purposes as paint. Not to mention that the really old ones like the C.A. Nothnagle Log House are registered historic place and are meticulously maintained by professionals. You can keep a building going indefinitely with enough attention and money, but that doesn't make it indicative of the typical situation.
You know the idea of the log cabin comes from Europe and there are plenty of log structures in Europe that are hundreds and hundreds of years old, painted, brown stained or sheath. There's a large tradition where there are/ were heavy forests and central Europe. It was this tradition that was brought to America. The stuff in your however is finished differently and more elaborately and in some places the tradition still is very much alive in building it new in the old way
I agree with all points. But even when the oldest of old cabins were being built, oiling the exterior quickly became the norm to protect them from moisture and rot.
Absolutely, some sort of brown stain that covers everything but sometimes much of the log work was protected by exterior ornamental trim or sheathing and all of that is in this universal dark brown black color. I've never stopped too really figure out what it is but I'm sure it would not be hard to learn what to preferred sealer is
I'm an exterior carpenter and refinisher in New England and I've tried and experimented with pretty much every sort of exterior finish.
Basically, wood is just a porous cellulose sponge, and as long as some sort of oil is applied every few years that soaks into the wood and doesn't leave a film any wood species will easily last decades. But modern film forming paints are the absolute enemy of exterior wood. They are worse than leaving the wood unfinished.
I just finished a cedar fence in Brooklyn with a few gallons of traditional swedish pine tar.
Well fence posts are always the problem whether it's cedar or PT and that's why I would put in pipe in concrete and connect the wooden fence to that and for appearance maybe double side the fence if it matters
Paint has a perm rating, so it allows some moisture to pass through. Some are lower than others, and the thickness affects the rating, but none of them are completely waterproof. Paint can actually be used as a vapor retarder in some situations.
That being said, it can last for a long time. The biggest factor your hypothetical situation has going for it is that you mentioned bringing it indoors first. The biggest enemy of paint is UV radiation, and it starts breaking down the polymers before they’re cured. If you install siding and paint it, it’ll need repainted every few years. If you paint it indoors before installing, it’ll last decades before needing repainted.
You can buy factory painted siding that comes with a 20 or 30 year warranty. I like to paint exterior doors and shutters in my shop whenever possible, and let them completely cure before hanging them. It makes a huge difference.
And this is why if you ever have to repair a wood sided building springing for the pre-primed stuff is worthwhile. It costs more, but it seals the wood before installation.
If your paint never fell off, shrunk or cracked, sure. But the pressure treated is going to continuously shrink and check. Your best bet is using flashing tape on the top sides of your pressure treated framing.
Also just learn as much about carpentry in the mean time, until it rots, so when it does, changing rotten pieces will be a breeze.
With that amount of time and effort, just use a species that is already outdoors friendly like White Oak or Western Red Cedar. Pressure treated wood is great for sill plates or deck supports, not so much for painting. Those will look better too
The loose grain comes and goes a lot with moisture and temperature change cracking the paint letting in moisture then making a microclimate by trapping the moisture behind the paint and rotting it. Tight grain doesn’t come and go as much
Not forever, but painting “all six sides”, meaning all end grains and cuts, dramatically increases longevity. Few take the extra time to paint fresh cuts and set them aside to dry before installation, such as on siding and trim. Not many customers will pay for the time that takes. But, if I’m doing something for myself, I’ll do it because I know I’ll be in the dirt before that wood needs repair or replace.
Hmm interesting. I’m asking because I’m building a low level deck, and ventilation and moisture is going to be a problem. And i won’t be able to access underneath once it’s down, so trying to make it last as long as possible. I had a fear that painting all sides of the wood could “trap moisture” and lead to rotting from inside out… then was thinking if i dried the hell out of the wood for 6 months indoors and then painted /tarred it , would it give me longer lifespan? It won’t be getting any sunlight so paint should last a little longer. I was also debating if leaving it unpainted might be safer ….
There is a school of thought that says paint traps water and stain is the way to go. My personal experience with wood decay is that nine out of ten times, decay starts at unprotected end grain or unpainted mating surfaces.
Ahh thank you for your insight, i really appreciate it, you are deepening my understanding on this topic. How do you define a “mating surface”? Is a 4x6 beam in a post bracket — is that a mating surface? Is any screw a mating surface? Thanks again
You can’t sweat every fastener penetration, but where wood sits flat against other wood, or in a saddle, it will definitely benefit from paint or at least pre priming.
It depends on where it’s at. In the desert? Possibly. In the temperate rainforest that is western North Carolina? Probably not. Also depends on maintenance. If you’re reapplying paint annually it’ll last a lot longer than if you’re just letting it be. Also depends on how it’s being used. A deck board on the patio of a popular restaurant won’t last as long as deck board at a vacation house that’s only walked on 3 times a year. A post that sunk into concrete is more likely to rot than a post bolted to an anchor bracket that’s sunk in concrete. Lots of factors to consider when you’re talking about the longevity of lumber. How many nails/screws are in it? Are they galvanized? Coated? Bare? Stainless? How much sun is it getting? Are termites or carpenter bees going after it? All these things and more are factors to consider.
Not forever but, there are some kinds of paint that could protect it for a very long time... You need to get paint specific to wood in a store for professionals. Bring the piece of wood to the professional store and they'll tell you which paint is most adapted and how to apply the product on the wood.
Personally, I recommend a primer undercoat then two coats of glycerophthalic paint or alkyd paint.
Make sure the surface is clean before applying any type of paint and don't put too much paint, just a normal amount will do. To obtain the best results possible: FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS ON THE PAINT CANS! DO NOT TRY TO EXPERIMENT!
Structural integrity would be gone not much longer than 40 years and it would be completely disintegrated in under 200 depending on climate and many other factors. Forever? Not even remotely close.
Modern paint is not in any way a wood preservative. Eventually it will crack, peel, and trap water, ultimately causing the painted wood to rot faster than if it had originally been left unfinished.
The only way to actually preserve wood outdoors over the long term is to apply a penetrating oil stain
For it to last forever it would need to be sealed like the epoxy hotdog
Sounds like what my wife demands when she forgets her pill.
Forever is a very long time. Not much can last that long.
The only thing that lasts forever is history. That theoretical piece of painted PT will soon be history. So yes.
Not even that. Otherwise when we found ancient sites like Göbekli Tepe we wouldn't be surprised and we'd know who built them and why. And that was only 11000 years ish ago.
*Add a zero to the age, but still a good point
Yeah whoops, meant 11k
Wow.
I’ve seen wood rot under the paint.
Wood can suffer wetness just fine without paint, needs to dry out immediately. That’s the key to longevity.
It also depends on the species.
Ive had a tree blind made out of pressure treated wood that has been sitting up against the same pine tree for 40 years. So long the tree has started growing around the lumber in places. Of cpurse this is PT wood from the 80's though. They dont let em use those chemicals anymore.
Yep, I pulled 3 12’ 4x6’s out of the ground, they were about 2 feet deep and held up a carport built in the mid 80’s. The surface is barely scratched near ground level. I plan on re-using them. Todays lumber wouldn’t hold up like that
I don't even understand the idea of the theory. Why, PT. There are plenty of examples of wooden structures that are hundreds and hundreds of years old that as long as they are maintained are still intact. There are 350 year old houses in New England and 5 and 6 and 700-year-old houses in Europe all out of wood,
So I'm not sure what the question is. If you paint something and maintain it it will last forever. Old fashioned porches are 150 years old and if they have been maintained they're fine but if they're not they rot so what's the point
I wanna peep the original siding on those houses
colonial williamsburg
In Bremerton, WA there are a bunch of old houses that got painted with left over hull paint from the shipyard. Makes them durable as fuck but a nightmare to demo
The old growth wood was far superior to today’s lumber.
Well your statement is correct but I don't have any idea what that has to do with its longevity Once it's under a painted film. You're talking two different things. Old lumber is dense and straight and maybe there is some sort of intrinsic rot resistance is what you're probably implying. But we're talking about not letting the water ever get to the wood. There are certain woods of course that have these capabilities of rot resistance cedar, redwood etc
I have had white cedar fencing in New England rot out and I have built fencing out of spruce springboard, which is really really cheap and rough sawn. And when I build out of springboard window boxes or facing, I paint the crap out of it and especially seal all the ends. Left alone in the garden and painted as sheathing it would rot away in a year or two but painted I've had some stuff standing for almost 30 years and still no problem. If it's properly enveloped with a paint film or sealer it's not going to rot. Moisture is the problem not the age of the wood or the tape of the wood necessarily for this experiment
Yeah, but how much of those structures' envelopes have been replaced over the years? Ship of Theseus and all that. Also OP'S doesn't mention repainting and maintaining it, so I'm not sure what their thoughts on that were.
The entire premise of “forever” is annoying. It’s Christmas so I’d rather it not bother me. Make your time spent with loved ones last longer than this stick of PT
Ever see a really old log cabin? Those survive hundreds of years without paint. Most paints aren’t durable enough to make a significant difference, but if the paint was infinitely durable the wood inside would last forever.
Most log cabins are oiled or stained on the exterior for the same protective purposes as paint. Not to mention that the really old ones like the C.A. Nothnagle Log House are registered historic place and are meticulously maintained by professionals. You can keep a building going indefinitely with enough attention and money, but that doesn't make it indicative of the typical situation.
You know the idea of the log cabin comes from Europe and there are plenty of log structures in Europe that are hundreds and hundreds of years old, painted, brown stained or sheath. There's a large tradition where there are/ were heavy forests and central Europe. It was this tradition that was brought to America. The stuff in your however is finished differently and more elaborately and in some places the tradition still is very much alive in building it new in the old way
I agree with all points. But even when the oldest of old cabins were being built, oiling the exterior quickly became the norm to protect them from moisture and rot.
Absolutely, some sort of brown stain that covers everything but sometimes much of the log work was protected by exterior ornamental trim or sheathing and all of that is in this universal dark brown black color. I've never stopped too really figure out what it is but I'm sure it would not be hard to learn what to preferred sealer is
Pine tar
Perhaps originally but I don't think that's what's on these houses these days and there are thousands of them. I am going to look it up
I'm an exterior carpenter and refinisher in New England and I've tried and experimented with pretty much every sort of exterior finish.
Basically, wood is just a porous cellulose sponge, and as long as some sort of oil is applied every few years that soaks into the wood and doesn't leave a film any wood species will easily last decades. But modern film forming paints are the absolute enemy of exterior wood. They are worse than leaving the wood unfinished.
I just finished a cedar fence in Brooklyn with a few gallons of traditional swedish pine tar.
I think OP means excluding maintenance. I agree with you though.
They had better wood.
Lol it's still not a matter of the wood, it's what's protecting it.
Found the labor, not paid to think. Now go replace those wooden fence posts again. Don't seem to last long in this weather.
Well fence posts are always the problem whether it's cedar or PT and that's why I would put in pipe in concrete and connect the wooden fence to that and for appearance maybe double side the fence if it matters
I take it you’ve never owned a boat…
Paint has a perm rating, so it allows some moisture to pass through. Some are lower than others, and the thickness affects the rating, but none of them are completely waterproof. Paint can actually be used as a vapor retarder in some situations.
That being said, it can last for a long time. The biggest factor your hypothetical situation has going for it is that you mentioned bringing it indoors first. The biggest enemy of paint is UV radiation, and it starts breaking down the polymers before they’re cured. If you install siding and paint it, it’ll need repainted every few years. If you paint it indoors before installing, it’ll last decades before needing repainted.
You can buy factory painted siding that comes with a 20 or 30 year warranty. I like to paint exterior doors and shutters in my shop whenever possible, and let them completely cure before hanging them. It makes a huge difference.
This makes total sense yet I never knew this. Thank you.
And this is why if you ever have to repair a wood sided building springing for the pre-primed stuff is worthwhile. It costs more, but it seals the wood before installation.
The difference is 50-70years over 30ish.
If you prime about 10 x then paint 20 x. Knowledge based worked on the ocean front home's many years.
Paint cracks eventually
And once it does water will just sit in the cracks and cause rot. Painting wood that will be outside is a terrible idea in my book.
Absolutely. Paint is not a wood preservative.
Penetrating oil stains are the only thing that works to maintain exterior wood over the long term, not topical film finishes.
Theoretically you should freeze it if you want it to last forever.
No, but if you put an oil based stain on it every 2 years it will last 40+ in some climates
No
If your paint never fell off, shrunk or cracked, sure. But the pressure treated is going to continuously shrink and check. Your best bet is using flashing tape on the top sides of your pressure treated framing.
Also just learn as much about carpentry in the mean time, until it rots, so when it does, changing rotten pieces will be a breeze.
Don’t bring pressure treated wood indoors.
Totally 100% fine to use modern pressure treated wood indoors.
With that amount of time and effort, just use a species that is already outdoors friendly like White Oak or Western Red Cedar. Pressure treated wood is great for sill plates or deck supports, not so much for painting. Those will look better too
The loose grain comes and goes a lot with moisture and temperature change cracking the paint letting in moisture then making a microclimate by trapping the moisture behind the paint and rotting it. Tight grain doesn’t come and go as much
Not forever, but painting “all six sides”, meaning all end grains and cuts, dramatically increases longevity. Few take the extra time to paint fresh cuts and set them aside to dry before installation, such as on siding and trim. Not many customers will pay for the time that takes. But, if I’m doing something for myself, I’ll do it because I know I’ll be in the dirt before that wood needs repair or replace.
Hmm interesting. I’m asking because I’m building a low level deck, and ventilation and moisture is going to be a problem. And i won’t be able to access underneath once it’s down, so trying to make it last as long as possible. I had a fear that painting all sides of the wood could “trap moisture” and lead to rotting from inside out… then was thinking if i dried the hell out of the wood for 6 months indoors and then painted /tarred it , would it give me longer lifespan? It won’t be getting any sunlight so paint should last a little longer. I was also debating if leaving it unpainted might be safer ….
There is a school of thought that says paint traps water and stain is the way to go. My personal experience with wood decay is that nine out of ten times, decay starts at unprotected end grain or unpainted mating surfaces.
Ahh thank you for your insight, i really appreciate it, you are deepening my understanding on this topic. How do you define a “mating surface”? Is a 4x6 beam in a post bracket — is that a mating surface? Is any screw a mating surface? Thanks again
You can’t sweat every fastener penetration, but where wood sits flat against other wood, or in a saddle, it will definitely benefit from paint or at least pre priming.
IMO, I would cover the bare wood, especially the end grain with Boracare. IMO
I’ll check that out, haven’t heard of that. In addition to copper preservative?
That's what I do. I am no expert. I was turned on to Boracare by a window restoration expert. I have been accused of overkill.
It depends on where it’s at. In the desert? Possibly. In the temperate rainforest that is western North Carolina? Probably not. Also depends on maintenance. If you’re reapplying paint annually it’ll last a lot longer than if you’re just letting it be. Also depends on how it’s being used. A deck board on the patio of a popular restaurant won’t last as long as deck board at a vacation house that’s only walked on 3 times a year. A post that sunk into concrete is more likely to rot than a post bolted to an anchor bracket that’s sunk in concrete. Lots of factors to consider when you’re talking about the longevity of lumber. How many nails/screws are in it? Are they galvanized? Coated? Bare? Stainless? How much sun is it getting? Are termites or carpenter bees going after it? All these things and more are factors to consider.
The short, safe, TL;DR: probably not.
Not forever but, there are some kinds of paint that could protect it for a very long time... You need to get paint specific to wood in a store for professionals. Bring the piece of wood to the professional store and they'll tell you which paint is most adapted and how to apply the product on the wood.
Personally, I recommend a primer undercoat then two coats of glycerophthalic paint or alkyd paint.
Make sure the surface is clean before applying any type of paint and don't put too much paint, just a normal amount will do. To obtain the best results possible: FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS ON THE PAINT CANS! DO NOT TRY TO EXPERIMENT!
No
Structural integrity would be gone not much longer than 40 years and it would be completely disintegrated in under 200 depending on climate and many other factors. Forever? Not even remotely close.
Nah, hes on to something. Paint would make it last forever for sure
Modern paint is not in any way a wood preservative. Eventually it will crack, peel, and trap water, ultimately causing the painted wood to rot faster than if it had originally been left unfinished.
The only way to actually preserve wood outdoors over the long term is to apply a penetrating oil stain
That was a joke