Can someone unbiased please inform me how multiple AP voters have Purdue ahead of Iowa State? I feel like it’s either they don’t even look at the sport or they’re intentionally being shady
Cyclone Larry has been chatting them up on Twitter if you want to find out. Conor Earegood thought Iowa State beating Purdue was about comparable with Purdue's road wins over Bama and Texas Tech plus he rose them five spots from his previous poll. Abby Schnable apparently has some algorithm she uses that had Iowa State ranked lower than initially placed and said it didn't feel right so she moved them up a couple plus chalked Purdue up to being "really strong besides that one game".
For the record, I absolutely believe Iowa State should be ranked higher than Purdue. Can't get beaten like that and stay even, much less better according to some of these pollsters. That being said, I rather have people give reasonable arguments like these that I can understand the thought process behind even if I don't agree with them.
I did see all of the Cyclone Larry discussion but it honestly left me more frustrated. Good to see them actually respond and attempt to defend themselves, but their answers make even less sense to me
We had to beat Florida in the first game of the year and then UCLA and then UConn before Randy Heitz finally put us in front of Florida in week 4. Some people are just terrible at this.
two weeks ago all we had done is blow out bad teams and beat one good team. We had not really proven a lot to folks who realize we lost almost all of last year's scoring.
Well, it was also national signing day (or something- I don't follow football at all), so that probably pulled the attention of beat writers away from basketball, which is an afterthought for a lot of these folks until like February.
My best guess is some have a busy weekend in which they can't watch games so they furiously and quickly scan scores at the last minute before submitting their rankings. Release the polls on Tuesday.
I scanned the ballots just to see if any had Illinois over Bama and was surprised only 2 did, a Wisconsin writer and a BYU writer (who likely did that based either on CFP playoff rankings or Bama knocking out BYU in the tourney last year by hitting 764 3 Pointers).
I've always argued that a single head-to-head victory doesn't automatically mean Team A is better than Team B. If Team B still has an outstanding résumé outside of the loss to Team A, there is always merit in ranking B higher than A. Not to mention, basketball is a high variation sport, which is why you always get upsets in a single elimination format like the NCAA tournament, so you can't always say one team is better than another after a single game between those two teams.
Now, with that said...for me, I consider Iowa State still to be the better team even outside of the head-to-head over Purdue, so I've no clue what those voters are on about.
They are all people that had Purdue as #1 and ISU at #12 in week 5 ballots but unlike the other 8 voters in that position, couldn't bring themselves to actually make the jump. Abby dropped Purdue 4, raised ISU 6 spots; Johnny and Connor dropped 3, raised 5; and Randy dropped 3, raised 8.
Not everyone is willing to bump Iowa St up 14 spots like Dave Preston and Zach Klein
When we are comparing two teams, we have to look at a hypothetical matchup. In a hypothetical matchup you really can't see Iowa State having the horses to keep up with the #1 offense in the nation or dealing with the length of their bigs in the paint. So Purdue really should be placed above them.
I'm not even sure how voters have Purdue ahead of UConn, much less you guys. UConn has a close home loss to the #1 team without our best guy. Purdue got their doors blown off at home by the #4.
I mean, we lost to the #3 and #9 teams, but had chances to win both games in the final minutes. I'm not sure how losing by 29.5 is considered "quality"?
Every time this hits my feed I always go to those two guys who always have us ranked way too high. To be fair, that’s anybody that is still ranking us, but those two still have us top 20.
Dude is on drugs. Just checked out his ballots on poll tracker. He unranked Arkansas when we won games and only reluctantly added us back after beating louisville. And he put us behind 5-4 Kentucky.
Not just a 5-4 team, but a 5-4 team who's best win has come against Valparaiso lmao. The best thing Kentucky has done this year is only get beaten by 3 against North Carolina at home.
Auburns not very good just got beat by 29 so let's drop them two spots. Arizona only played a team that's not very good, ought to drop them two spots. After all, we gotta make room for Michigan. Did you see what they did to Auburn?!
And meanwhile Percy Allen (Washington) and David Jablonski (Dayton) both have us unranked. I feel like we should be around 19 or 20. Unranked is sad but at least you could argue for it. But #10 is absolute insanity.
This is a series I've been doing on /r/CollegeBasketball for 7 years, and now /r/CFB for 11. The post attempts to visualize consistency between voters in the AP Poll in a single image. Additionally it sorts each AP voter by similarity to the group. Notably, this is not a measure of how "good" a voter is, just how consistent they are with the group. Especially preseason, having a diversity of opinions and ranking styles is advantageous to having a true consensus poll. Polls tend to coalesce towards each other as the season goes on.
You can view all weeks here, for other sports too. AP had fewer technical difficulties this week! Jeff Rabjohns did not submit a ballot, so there were 60 voters this week
Andrew Quinn and Sam Rothman were the most consistent voter this week. Sam Rothman is the most consistent on the season, followed by Andrew Quinn, Chris Nee, Jackson Payne, and Peter Rauterkus.
Dylan Sinn was the biggest outlier this week. Dave Borges, David Jablonski, Owen Siebring, Jon Wilner, and Seth Davis are the biggest outliers on the season.
I don’t understand why we’re still ranked. We have two good wins and two blowout losses. Metrics aren’t there. Eye test isn’t. Someone help me see what they do, because I’d be down for some hope.
Just worried about looking biased. Or maybe fills it out each week after Tommy gives him his weekly contentious press conference, Bruce is only one I see regularly getting tommy all irritated.
Holy shit I never thought we’d be regarded this highly any time soon after last season. This is awesome. Hopefully we can shine in conference play. It’s gonna be tough, but the Big East is weak.
Always said I’ve loved the “squints” San Jose Mercury News! Definitely the most accurate take on Illinois basketball out there. It’s not like we’re ranked higher than a team that beat us or anything
To the voters putting Arkansas ahead of Louisville, can you really justify pulling Louisville that far down if your pulling Arkansas that far up from the results of a home game? I get some adjustment but that feels like a ranking based off one game, especially consider Louisville work IU on a neutral floor a few days later.
How come there are three voters affiliated with Duke? Who, by the way, ranked Duke quite generously. Duke is good but It looks to me that most voters purposely vote less generously to their affiliates.
Lmfao. This sub is beyond ridiculous when it comes to absolutely anything regarding Duke. Just endless squawking and denial.
A 1, 2 and 3 ranking from the three you mentioned, what do you want them to do? Seriously? Rank Duke 4,5 and 6 even though that’s not where they belong rn and not where 99% of the rest of the voters have them? I mean even a UNC affiliated voter put Duke 1. Come on now.
After what we saw with Kentucky last week, who in their right mind would still have them ranked, let alone the person who has them moving back just 1 spot to 20. Not a single person in the state of Kentucky would say this is a top 25 team right now
Arizona has 4 ranked wins like Duke does so I could see that, but I think the case for Duke to be ahead of Michigan and Iowa state is more reasonable than the other way around. Both teams have some big wins but when you beat 4 ranked teams (3 in a row) including a top 10 opponent on the road you have to weigh that pretty heavily imo. It shows you can consistently win against high quality opponents as opposed to having one game where you’re on and the other team is off.
Hmm straight up resume wise we may have stronger argument just because of 4 q1 wins home/away and neutral but Mich is ranked 1 in NET right now, and they’re also ahead of Duke in the major predictive models (1 in EvanMiya, 3 in KenPom, and 1 in T-Rank).
So yeah I’d say Michigan is grading out as the best team rn by the analytics that actually measure possession by possession quality and resume strength and stripping out human polls which ofc have subjectivity. Then if you ignore all that and use eye test I’d say Michigan looks like best team rn this early in season.
Interested to hear the reasonable case for why Duke behind Iowa State I usually am pretty unbiased and hard on Duke but not seeing that case rn maybe missing something
Blasting Purdue at their own arena is more than anything Duke has done so far. While their resume elsewhere is a little lacking, a win on neutral court over St. John’s is pretty good, as is blowing out Syracuse.
Personally I think the top 3 is pretty clear so far (with ISU 4th), but I see the argument based on the Purdue win, even if I think a large part of that was Purdue going uncharacteristically cold (which happens).
Still a small sample size so far and will almost certainly be more clear in the next couple weeks.
🤨 so for the first case, you’d also argue the same for Iowa state deserving to be above Arizona, right?
The second is subjective but agree that was a great win. I view the Michigan blow out over Gonzaga as “best” of season so far but know that’s personal opinion.
Keep in mind I was responding to someone arguing there is no reasonable case for Duke lower than 3rd, not that Duke should be in the top 3. There is a case to be made for UM, UA, and ISU that isn’t absurd.
CJ Moore sitting down each week moving Duke from 8 to 15 to 10 to 8 to 6 to 5
Gotta give him props I know this has got to be really painful each week for him. Like last season when he refused to bring Duke into the top 5 rankings for awhile because he didn’t believe in Cooper Flagg.
It’s funny to me that you can pick out the writers who think specific conferences are bad (whattup Mettlen, Moore, and Holland) even though conference play hasn’t started, so conferences don’t matter yet
Ranking Purdue higher than Iowa State
In this economy?
And it wasn't just one attention seeking writer, it was 3.
Can someone unbiased please inform me how multiple AP voters have Purdue ahead of Iowa State? I feel like it’s either they don’t even look at the sport or they’re intentionally being shady
I mean are we POSITIVE you guys are better? It was a pretty close game after all
It was really only one half that they were clearly the better team. So, we should be ahead of them by about 10 spots still
When you lose on a last second shot like that you really gotta question if Iowa St was truly the better team or just got lucky.
Cyclone Larry has been chatting them up on Twitter if you want to find out. Conor Earegood thought Iowa State beating Purdue was about comparable with Purdue's road wins over Bama and Texas Tech plus he rose them five spots from his previous poll. Abby Schnable apparently has some algorithm she uses that had Iowa State ranked lower than initially placed and said it didn't feel right so she moved them up a couple plus chalked Purdue up to being "really strong besides that one game".
For the record, I absolutely believe Iowa State should be ranked higher than Purdue. Can't get beaten like that and stay even, much less better according to some of these pollsters. That being said, I rather have people give reasonable arguments like these that I can understand the thought process behind even if I don't agree with them.
I did see all of the Cyclone Larry discussion but it honestly left me more frustrated. Good to see them actually respond and attempt to defend themselves, but their answers make even less sense to me
We had to beat Florida in the first game of the year and then UCLA and then UConn before Randy Heitz finally put us in front of Florida in week 4. Some people are just terrible at this.
I don't think he watches basketballl games... still has Purdue ahead of Iowa st
Dave borges had Duke outside of the top 10 the first two weeks I’m pretty certain, some of these guys definitely don’t think
two weeks ago all we had done is blow out bad teams and beat one good team. We had not really proven a lot to folks who realize we lost almost all of last year's scoring.
The real answer is there were a lot of football games this weekend and watching two sports is hard. AP voters are lazy and dumb.
9 games are a lot?
Well, it was also national signing day (or something- I don't follow football at all), so that probably pulled the attention of beat writers away from basketball, which is an afterthought for a lot of these folks until like February.
My best guess is some have a busy weekend in which they can't watch games so they furiously and quickly scan scores at the last minute before submitting their rankings. Release the polls on Tuesday.
I scanned the ballots just to see if any had Illinois over Bama and was surprised only 2 did, a Wisconsin writer and a BYU writer (who likely did that based either on CFP playoff rankings or Bama knocking out BYU in the tourney last year by hitting 764 3 Pointers).
I mean I really don’t understand how you can make these obvious mistakes. Maybe they have some custom dogshit computer algorithm
They cut the head off of a chicken and release it on a giant board with all the team names.
I would just put the top 25 logos on paper and put 25 unique dog treats on the floor and have my dog pick. See how many years I can get away with it
I've always argued that a single head-to-head victory doesn't automatically mean Team A is better than Team B. If Team B still has an outstanding résumé outside of the loss to Team A, there is always merit in ranking B higher than A. Not to mention, basketball is a high variation sport, which is why you always get upsets in a single elimination format like the NCAA tournament, so you can't always say one team is better than another after a single game between those two teams.
Now, with that said...for me, I consider Iowa State still to be the better team even outside of the head-to-head over Purdue, so I've no clue what those voters are on about.
Honestly I agree with this in a macro sense, especially as the season goes on and you can’t respect every head to head as truth.
However, when the teams JUST played and one lost at home by >20 with otherwise completely comparable resumes, it makes no sense to me.
If this game was played at Hilton I would’ve understood a couple people ranking Purdue over Iowa State.
They are all people that had Purdue as #1 and ISU at #12 in week 5 ballots but unlike the other 8 voters in that position, couldn't bring themselves to actually make the jump. Abby dropped Purdue 4, raised ISU 6 spots; Johnny and Connor dropped 3, raised 5; and Randy dropped 3, raised 8.
Not everyone is willing to bump Iowa St up 14 spots like Dave Preston and Zach Klein
I can ALMOST understand the guys that had ISU outside the top 10 and Purdue #1.
But this fucking guy? HOW ON EARTH do you have them at 5 and 6 with PURDUE AT 5?
https://preview.redd.it/syct17rf436g1.jpeg?width=948&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b8aa2132e7103db5956091c8de7b32dddbbc4655
Yeah, that dude sure is whack!
Also how is Brenna Greene affiliated with Oregon? Because KION is Portland based? She’s definitely a Gonzaga alum lol
I don’t think they all take it seriously and some might not even know what happened, which is another reason not to care about the AP poll
When we are comparing two teams, we have to look at a hypothetical matchup. In a hypothetical matchup you really can't see Iowa State having the horses to keep up with the #1 offense in the nation or dealing with the length of their bigs in the paint. So Purdue really should be placed above them.
They’re waiting for selection Sunday to flip you two for drama if the CFP is any indication
I'm not even sure how voters have Purdue ahead of UConn, much less you guys. UConn has a close home loss to the #1 team without our best guy. Purdue got their doors blown off at home by the #4.
Purdue shouldn't even be in the top 10 after that. Idk either
Cue up the Michael Irvin rant.
There were voters that had Purdue THREE spots ahead of ISU.
How are some people voting Auburn higher when they got blown out by 30
The love for Auburn is certainly perplexing.
Quality ass beatings dude—- don’t worry I’m sure Arky will have a few of those by seasons end
I mean, we lost to the #3 and #9 teams, but had chances to win both games in the final minutes. I'm not sure how losing by 29.5 is considered "quality"?
lol you bragging about getting your ass beat?
Not to yall that’s for sure. We will sweep yall btw!
They didn't get beat by 40 by Michigan, duh
Hmm when do we play Minnesota?
Can’t wait😂, we’re gonna get dropped outta the top 10 after that drubbing
Don’t enact this voodoo. I was at last year’s buzzer beater game.
Always seems like their strange "raised floor" gives us issues, historically.
Okay seriously, what did we do to this Minnesota beat writer
Brought our own water jug like 100 years ago
Destroy Minnesota many times in many sports
Didn’t win by enough, obviously.
A Wolverine stole his gf back in college or something. Idk what else his problem could be.
just canceled my pioneer press subscription
I stand by my comment last week
Seconded.
I’m sorry Kentucky and maybe I’m a little salty, but why are they still receiving votes?
I wouldn’t even call that salty. They’re 5-4 with their best win maybe being Tennessee tech
Every time this hits my feed I always go to those two guys who always have us ranked way too high. To be fair, that’s anybody that is still ranking us, but those two still have us top 20.
Don't be sorry. I have the same question
Many people are asking. We shouldnt be lmao
Victor Flores things a 5-4 team should be number 20! Why is he an AP voter?
Dude is on drugs. Just checked out his ballots on poll tracker. He unranked Arkansas when we won games and only reluctantly added us back after beating louisville. And he put us behind 5-4 Kentucky.
Not just a 5-4 team, but a 5-4 team who's best win has come against Valparaiso lmao. The best thing Kentucky has done this year is only get beaten by 3 against North Carolina at home.
Probably shouldn't have been ranked the week previously, have no idea how people could vote for us after those two losses.
In front of Arkansas at that.
Andy Greder, I think you have a number of fantastic takes, but how is Michigan 5th with what they’ve done this season
he’s consistent i’ll give him that
Didn't he have them like 13th last week?
8th but who's keeping track?
11th, but yea, serious lack of ball knowledge
The people who hate Michigan, REALLY hate Michigan
We clearly haven’t won by enough.
Must be 50+ point wins.
they are the same 3 that are hoping UCONN gets healthy and proves them right.
Dave Preston knows ball.
The five voters who have Purdue ahead of Iowa State do not.
How can we know if the 30 pt blowout on Purdue’s floor means Iowa State is better
Only a neutral site can really tell us.
I heard neutral site wins are the best wins. Just what I heard tho
let's ask Vegas
on a neutral floor I'm sure Purdue would be favored
Dave Preston dropped us two spots from 2nd to 4th after beating #20 Auburn by 29, so that's going to be an agree to disagree for me.
He did also drop Auburn two spots for getting beaten by 29, so at least he's got his own brand of consistent.
Auburns not very good just got beat by 29 so let's drop them two spots. Arizona only played a team that's not very good, ought to drop them two spots. After all, we gotta make room for Michigan. Did you see what they did to Auburn?!
How can one knock Purdue for losing to Iowa State? Iowa State is really good; they beat Purdue!
He went from the 2nd lowest ranker of ISU (\#15) in week 5 to the only person putting you all in first.
I guess he just learned ball.
Why am I not surprised that one is the Bama beat writer? Quality losses just mean more around there, apparently.
It's maryland I think
Talking about the writers putting Purdue ahead of ISU, not us getting a #1 vote
My bad lmao, I thought we were still on Dave Preston
One of us! One of us!
Dave Preston’s a hack.
No I’m not salty 👀
https://preview.redd.it/k03yd1y6q16g1.jpeg?width=652&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3592f5a5fdb928408ba10a68caaa3438dc61f054
It’s certainly a choice lol.
Seth Davis with Kansas at #10 is interesting
And meanwhile Percy Allen (Washington) and David Jablonski (Dayton) both have us unranked. I feel like we should be around 19 or 20. Unranked is sad but at least you could argue for it. But #10 is absolute insanity.
This is a series I've been doing on /r/CollegeBasketball for 7 years, and now /r/CFB for 11. The post attempts to visualize consistency between voters in the AP Poll in a single image. Additionally it sorts each AP voter by similarity to the group. Notably, this is not a measure of how "good" a voter is, just how consistent they are with the group. Especially preseason, having a diversity of opinions and ranking styles is advantageous to having a true consensus poll. Polls tend to coalesce towards each other as the season goes on.
You can view all weeks here, for other sports too. AP had fewer technical difficulties this week! Jeff Rabjohns did not submit a ballot, so there were 60 voters this week
Andrew Quinn and Sam Rothman were the most consistent voter this week. Sam Rothman is the most consistent on the season, followed by Andrew Quinn, Chris Nee, Jackson Payne, and Peter Rauterkus.
Dylan Sinn was the biggest outlier this week. Dave Borges, David Jablonski, Owen Siebring, Jon Wilner, and Seth Davis are the biggest outliers on the season.
Three writers putting Michigan at #4 / 5 is a bold choice.
Shoutout Brice Cherry, man. He knows what’s up.
Yes… yes he does
I don’t understand why we’re still ranked. We have two good wins and two blowout losses. Metrics aren’t there. Eye test isn’t. Someone help me see what they do, because I’d be down for some hope.
SEC
Losses just...mean....MORE
No, they don't
5 of those voters still ranked Kentucky. Im convinced they don't watch basketball.
Just go with it ffs, its your team, just be happy and move along.
Shane Mettien is stupid
Its like he didnt see any basketball last week.
I was looking at the board and randomly saw John Johnson has IU at 14, is he the only one who still has them ranked? Did he miss this week's games?
~~Last week's ballot? No one has ISU below 7.~\~I'm dumb
IU, not ISU. IU lost to Minnesota and got blown out by Louisville last week.
Oops. Reading comprehension not working.
No worries lol
Brian Holland has them at 20.
It’s pretty funny that “who pasted Auburn more” is the measuring stick.
Not what Pearl Jr. wanted I’m sure
The Arizona Daily Star had us not at #1 earlier in the year behind Purdue when others have us first place votes.
How’s he still not have us at #1?? He must know we’re more likely to get upset as #1 than anywhere else in the top 5
Self hating wildcat.
All of us?
Yes.
Just worried about looking biased. Or maybe fills it out each week after Tommy gives him his weekly contentious press conference, Bruce is only one I see regularly getting tommy all irritated.
I like this Dave Preston guy
I also think we should listen to the Auburn beat writer about who #1 is.
He had to write up losses to both Michigan and Arizona so he knows best
I've always loved Waco
How the fuck did Dylan Sinn drop UConn a spot lmaoooooo he hates us 🤣
His poll is consistently bad.
Like across multiple seasons, he is consistently at the bottom for being an outlier.
Feels like the AP poll is more accurate than most computer models right now. UK is still top 20 in all of them among other irregularities.
Most computer models still have preseason adjustments supporting Kentucky.
The AP poll and computer models like Kenpom/Torvik measure different things
I know. It’s interesting when the differences are so wide. Usually the computer models on average are better gages but at this stage they are off.
Having Michigan 4th or 5th is certainly a choice. A bad one, but definitely a choice
I have a conference in St. Paul tomorrow through Thursday. My evenings will be spent tracking down Andy Greder so I can ask him what his problem is
The best part of this is knowing how much it physically hurt Dick Vitale to put us number 1.
Shane Mettlen from JMU is a complete bozo.
Has unc at 23 behind Kentucky, who shouldn’t even be in the top 25, that they just beat on their own court.
Even the arizona beat writer has michigan at 1!
CJ Moore seems like a guy
Arizona Daily Star knows ball.
Bruce Pascoe of the Arizona Daily Star has Michigan ahead of Arizona. You have to respect the lack of a bias.
The writers’ Purdue obsession should be studied. Most overrated program of the last 25 years.
Go home Dylan Sinn, you're drunk.
This is the highest Nebrasketball has been ranked since the 2014-11-17 poll at #21. Last time we were ranked this high in December? 1994-12-26 at #23
(We were ranked #24 in December of 2018)
A lot of people voted M A D. Me too bro...
Holy shit I never thought we’d be regarded this highly any time soon after last season. This is awesome. Hopefully we can shine in conference play. It’s gonna be tough, but the Big East is weak.
Anyone that put UK on their ballot needs to be replaced with someone else that actually knows what basketball is.
Minnesota doesn't know ball apparently
Cut him some slack, it's hockey season there
/s
How is Michigan not #1? Toughest SoS, huge margins of whoopass?
Still too high. We ass
Dylan Sinn is some sort of psychopath.
Et tu, Bruce?
Heitz not ranking OSU is hilarious to me. He’ll be forced to rank us after bedlam this weekend though
Always said I’ve loved the “squints” San Jose Mercury News! Definitely the most accurate take on Illinois basketball out there. It’s not like we’re ranked higher than a team that beat us or anything
Seeing so many people ranking uga is giving me false hope
Oklahoma state
To be frank, still a ridiculous number of AP voters who didn’t rank Nebraska (9-0 with wins over Oklahoma, K-State, Creighton, New Mexico..)
To the voters putting Arkansas ahead of Louisville, can you really justify pulling Louisville that far down if your pulling Arkansas that far up from the results of a home game? I get some adjustment but that feels like a ranking based off one game, especially consider Louisville work IU on a neutral floor a few days later.
How come there are three voters affiliated with Duke? Who, by the way, ranked Duke quite generously. Duke is good but It looks to me that most voters purposely vote less generously to their affiliates.
Lmfao. This sub is beyond ridiculous when it comes to absolutely anything regarding Duke. Just endless squawking and denial.
A 1, 2 and 3 ranking from the three you mentioned, what do you want them to do? Seriously? Rank Duke 4,5 and 6 even though that’s not where they belong rn and not where 99% of the rest of the voters have them? I mean even a UNC affiliated voter put Duke 1. Come on now.
Just an observation. No need to get heated UMBC.
Did Shane Mettlen watch UNC v. UK this week?
Tony Paul's a hater.
Tony Paul, big MAC guy. Only writer bold enough to give a vote (#24 too) to Miami. Go RedHawks.
Fully Husked.
Bonnies with a single vote!! I’ll take it!
After what we saw with Kentucky last week, who in their right mind would still have them ranked, let alone the person who has them moving back just 1 spot to 20. Not a single person in the state of Kentucky would say this is a top 25 team right now
YO?!?!?!?!?!?!???
Is Villanova “back”?
Victor Flores and Shane Mettlen should be banned from voting ever again for having UK in the top 20.
[deleted]
While I would probably have Duke 3rd, I think there is a reasonable case for Duke to be behind Michigan, Iowa State, and Arizona.
Arizona has 4 ranked wins like Duke does so I could see that, but I think the case for Duke to be ahead of Michigan and Iowa state is more reasonable than the other way around. Both teams have some big wins but when you beat 4 ranked teams (3 in a row) including a top 10 opponent on the road you have to weigh that pretty heavily imo. It shows you can consistently win against high quality opponents as opposed to having one game where you’re on and the other team is off.
This is best summary I’ve seen posted and there’s not much of any reasonable argument for Duke over Michigan but yes for the other two
https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/s/uWCTneJf6m
Michigan two nice wins against the 21st and 12th ranked team but other than that resume wise what’s the argument?
Hmm straight up resume wise we may have stronger argument just because of 4 q1 wins home/away and neutral but Mich is ranked 1 in NET right now, and they’re also ahead of Duke in the major predictive models (1 in EvanMiya, 3 in KenPom, and 1 in T-Rank).
So yeah I’d say Michigan is grading out as the best team rn by the analytics that actually measure possession by possession quality and resume strength and stripping out human polls which ofc have subjectivity. Then if you ignore all that and use eye test I’d say Michigan looks like best team rn this early in season.
Interested to hear the reasonable case for why Duke behind Iowa State I usually am pretty unbiased and hard on Duke but not seeing that case rn maybe missing something
Blasting Purdue at their own arena is more than anything Duke has done so far. While their resume elsewhere is a little lacking, a win on neutral court over St. John’s is pretty good, as is blowing out Syracuse.
Personally I think the top 3 is pretty clear so far (with ISU 4th), but I see the argument based on the Purdue win, even if I think a large part of that was Purdue going uncharacteristically cold (which happens).
Still a small sample size so far and will almost certainly be more clear in the next couple weeks.
Iowa State has a better predictive rating (Kenpom) and the best win of the college basketball season (by 23 at Purdue).
I mean beating Gonzaga by 40 at a neutral site is in contention for best win of the season.
Yeah I'd still put that win as #1. That was brutally one-sided from start to finish. Almost painful to watch.
Purdue also can you tell about losing to 16th seeds as well. They're always sus when ranked high.
🤨 so for the first case, you’d also argue the same for Iowa state deserving to be above Arizona, right?
The second is subjective but agree that was a great win. I view the Michigan blow out over Gonzaga as “best” of season so far but know that’s personal opinion.
Keep in mind I was responding to someone arguing there is no reasonable case for Duke lower than 3rd, not that Duke should be in the top 3. There is a case to be made for UM, UA, and ISU that isn’t absurd.
[deleted]
Predictive metrics (Kenpom) have Iowa State as a better team than Duke. That’s a reasonable basis all by itself.
I am not saying “you must rank ISU ahead of Duke,” but you are saying the inverse.
CJ Moore sitting down each week moving Duke from 8 to 15 to 10 to 8 to 6 to 5
Gotta give him props I know this has got to be really painful each week for him. Like last season when he refused to bring Duke into the top 5 rankings for awhile because he didn’t believe in Cooper Flagg.
How bad did Duke beat Auburn?
It’s funny to me that you can pick out the writers who think specific conferences are bad (whattup Mettlen, Moore, and Holland) even though conference play hasn’t started, so conferences don’t matter yet
5 spots is dramatic as fuck.
Yippe :]
Duke has 4 wins against ranked opponents…….
Lots of Gs on here
Can’t believe the committee would snub us like this smh 😤
Florida nearly beats Duke at Duke and gets dropped off several ballots. Bit harsh.
It is strange how so many voters left Florida off their list.
Do the voters not like quality losses? Many people are asking. Guess that upset some people here
I just like that the top 3 spells out DAM or MAD in a lot of them.
WE GOT A VOTE