It's not wrong. People will big the first available parking spot they can find and camp there even when it's supposed to be for in and out visits. I have never once struggled to find parking in Cleveland. It's just usually I have to go through a parking garage which sucks
I don't mind paying more for street parking, never used the meter when they were just coins. But some of the private parking garages are just not great experiences.
Years ago my laptop went on the fritz right before Christmas. I dropped it off at the Apple Store at Crocker Park for repair. When I went back a couple days later to collect it, all the parking meters were bagged because some local business sponsored free parking for the days before Christmas -- "for your convenience!" they proudly proclaimed.
So instead of popping a quarter in the meter, running inside to grab my computer and then heading out, I had to trek into the [free] parking garage; up several levels, and walk all the way to the store and back. "Convenience" my ass.
This change should help downtown businesses that complain that their customers have no place to park during Cavs or Guardians games, when on-street parking is all taken and the lots are at surge pricing. Helping them was one of the motivations that the city explained to residents in Ohio City.
The city also analyzed that $1.50/hour is still less expensive than other cities (Columbus, Toledo, Pittsburgh). I didnāt fact-check, but it sounds believable.
Possible. The city says they plan to play with the rates to balance parking spot turnover (availability) with affordability. Step one is to get the app and kiosks in place, step two is collect data and feedback.
For Cavs games and evening Guardians games, parking is/was free. Iāve never had an issue finding street parking, even during sold out games, and with other events going on. Now why go downtown, when I just have added expenses?
All the cities listing, also have free street parking after 6. Cleveland will be the only city that now charges.
Inflation, essentially. Money is worth less now. The parking needs to justify its existence. All of the real estate has value and needs to justify its existence.
The justification for it is for businesses to make money. Parking should be free. Bussing even should be free. The tax revenue generated from increased economic activity DWARFS any pennies generated by stupid 50 cent increases. Its just unintelligent. Tbh, they prob spent more money just in announcing and planning this and switching everything over than theyll make in a year or more.
The city should be as welcoming and safe as possible. Charging an extra few pennies for a meter is noy accomplishing that goal.
I'm not sure I buy the idea people will pay more to drive downtown to park at meters to do stuff downtown they can't do in their home area or elsewhere.
Yes I am 100% in agreement with you in theory (and as a RTA rider who makes 4-5 connections per day). However, it is also important to note that the City of Cleveland does not fund or have any authority on the RTA aside from the Mayor appointing several Board members. So any issues with transit is out of Cleveland's hands.
The RTA is basically an extension of the State Government which has several main sources of revenue, but most of the general operating funding comes from a 1% County-wide sales tax (which was voted on in 1975).
I would love for Cleveland to have less parking and more transit too, but that's more of a long-term societal/systemic issue than anything Cleveland or City Council can (or even really should) tackle themselves.
(Also, RTA announced possible service cuts starting next year, so in order to get more transit we'd need either a large swatch of people moving into the County - something to the tune of hundreds of thousands or a tax increase and I guarantee almost everybody mad about these meter increases will never in a thousand years vote for that haha).
I dream of a streetcar line down mayfield. Would be a massive clusterfuck to build, and NIMBY would never allow it. But if it hooked up with the rta in little Italy it would connect a massive chunk of the east side to the city through public transport. Would also remove a lot of traffic from mayfield
Buses run on mayfield already. Itās hard to rely on them as they skip stops or hour delayed especially in rain and snow when you actually need them the most.
Only if there were not people getting stabbed on the Rapids. Id rather be in control of my destination and my life. I usually over feed the meter anyways. Just sucks if the slow county workers are on break, only one computer plugged in or "left the office early" and takes three hours to be seen or take care of your business ( workmens comp office).
While nuisance behaviors can be a problem in and around public transit, occurrences of actual violence and criminal activity is very rare.
While I can empathize with anyone who has felt unsafe on public transit, and do believe we can do more to encourage and increase safety, overall our public transit is very safe in comparison to other metro areas.
We should not be engaging in fear mongering, which only perpetuates the perception that public transportation is dirty and dangerous, and only serves to discourage ridership.
That being said, most that hold these kinds of attitudes and false assumptions about city life are the typical scared suburbanites who also say they refuse to go downtown because āthey will probably get shot/robbedā.
I am not sad for the city to lose out on any potential revenue from someone perpetuating a narrative that is typically rooted in racial stereotypes, or other false assumptions made about the socioeconomic status (and the implied criminality) of city dwellers. I, and many others, are more than happy to lose your business, if it means a healthy distance from the bigots and nimbys.
Where and how far are you taking an uber for less than $10? And if that's per trip, you're spending at least $20 right there (going to/returning). On weekends, ubers are more like $20 heading downtown not even including a tip.
I genuinely believe people in most of America avoid transit because they just aren't used to it. It is a bit of a learning curve if you're used to driving everywhere but when the Healthline replaced the #6 back in 2007, ridership increased and continued doing so until it peaked in 2014.
So if you build it and make it good and reliable, people will come.
Hell, I have actually met 3 new riders all in the past week and I got to teach them how to use the Transit app and request stops. It was awesome! I saw one of them again on the red line a few days ago and we gave each other one a little headnod of recognition. Sometimes, this is what progress looks like.
I live in Ohio City and uber multiple times per week. Almost always in the city proper. A majority of my rides are from Lakewood to downtown.
You check both uber and Lyft, walk a few blocks or wait a bit if a major event let out.
I went to the Cavs game Monday on a $7 ride that got me door to door in like 6 minutes. The redline is 2 blocks from my house, costs $5 for two and takes 30+ minutes.
The people that take transit here are either enthusiasts or have no other option. If you can afford a decent car you can afford uber too. If you live in the burbs you are a lost cause for transit anyway.
I have family in Asia and NYC. They live on trains. The reason they take them is because driving is impossible. Asia is especially world class but when they come here they are in awe of what we can do in a day- with a seemingly private driver and no traffic.
Iām all for beefing up public transit but in a region with no traffic, ample parking, low col, and a driving culture it just isnāt competitive in a majority of cases.
But your $7 to get to the Cavs game on Monday would have just been the trip there, correct? So you would have had to pay again coming home? Assuming it's also $7 (I'm gonna guess it was more, but just for coninuity's sake), that's $14 right there, plus tip. That's almost 3x as much as you would have paid for a $5 all day pass. Not to mention you still have to wait for the uber/lyft. They don't just materialize as soon as a driver accepts your trip.
You live in Ohio City near the W. 25th station? Or the 65th station? If the former, you're looking at a 2-minute journey, if the latter then it's more like 5 minutes. I ride the red line all the time and track times on my trip, so I know this off-hand haha.
There is no way that you're red line trip takes 30 minutes. Those trains come every 15. So if you aren't familiar with the time table and maybe you just missed the train, you're still gonna get downtown in less than 20 minutes from where you live.
Or if you're near the W. 25th station, you could just walk across the bridge and not spend any money haha.
Iām by 25th. The official transit app time is 25min to the stadium and I find that best-case. I always try to leave a few before just in case. Iāve also found the app inaccurate. Either way to do this in the winter sucks compared to sitting on my couch sipping a cocktail until the uber arrives and takes me to the front door.
We can talk a few bucks or a few minutes but I really used myself as an example because I have maybe the best transit location in the city and Iād still choose uber all day every day. Flying out of the airport? Iāll take the uber every time to avoid lugging my nice bags through the neighborhood. The vast majority of people obviously choose to drive themselves for this stuff. And thatās really what youāre up against. The vast majority of people have no problem paying for parking.
I ride transit here because I enjoy it. Practically no one I know here (most live downtown or near west side) want to ride with me. If it cost $100 to uber to/from the game my wife would probably do it instead of hiking/waiting in the snow. I donāt think thatās unusual these days either. I canāt you how often I see people who can barely afford rent DoorDash $30 of Dunkin or something. Itās all about convenience.
The ātransit enthusiastsā around here canāt see any of this. They are blinded by their love of trains, buses, and big cities.
No I hear you, there's definitely something to be said about convenience of uber/lyft. But you're almost comparing apples to oranges here. You say to get from your couch to Rocket Fieldhouse would take around 25 minutes via transit which would include walking to the station and waiting a few minutes for the train.
If you're gonna measure transit use that way, then you need to also measure uber/lyft that way and include all the variables you're attributing to the RTA as well. It's not 6 minutes by uber vs. 25 minutes by RTA. It's [however long it takes for a driver to accept your ride + drive to you + traffic + find the drop off location] vs. 25 minutes via RTA. The difference may still err on the side of Uber/Lyft but it's not going to be as vast or exaggerated as you say.
However I will say that I agree that Transit has gotten more inaccurate since they updated it a few months back. The timetables on RTA's website are pretty much always accurate for most major routes, with a few minutes margin of error (red line is almost always on the dot, though).
Well yeah, no transit in America will compare to a lot of the EU. With some exceptions of course, mostly on the east coast but even NYC has issues and is lacking in major corrdiors (heading north or south in Brooklyn for instance is a pain in the ass). Washington DC is incredible but all trains stop running after midnight which kinda blows. Our country was sold to GM and all the oil oligarchies which fucked our transit. But having said that, RTA is easily the most reliable and most frequent transit system in Ohio. If you think the RTA is bad, you should ride COTA in Columbus - they make us look like the EU!
All this to say, you gotta kinda grade transit in America on a curve haha. And if you wanna make it better, there are ways to get your voice heard! There's several groups that advocate for better transit in not only Cleveland but in Ohio as well. All Aboard Ohio is one, and they're very serious and knowledgeable.
In the last thread, everybody who tried saying this and showing the rationalization behind the price hike (which isn't even really a "hike") were being downvoted to oblivion and you had people from like Westlake talking about how they will no longer be coming downtown on weekends lol. And honestly even $10 for 4 hours is still an insanely good deal. There's some private garages that charge $10+ an hour on weekends or game nights or a $20-30 flat rate.
Drivers are just used to special and prioritized treatment in this city and will throw a fit because now they actually have to pay to store their giant SUVs on city streets, nevermind the drivers who freely drive on the bus only lane along Euclid with 0 repercussion.
Yes. And this is exactly why this is bad for local businesses, especially small businesses, which are already struggling under the current conditions. I think this is a shortsighted move, and hopefully will be amended before it is officially rolled out.
Cleveland is a car centric city. Our public transit isnāt really that useable, so thatās not an option for most. Iām a 5 min drive downtown or itās about an hour using public transit one way. Why would I even use it? Now that I have to pay to park, Iāll just go someplace else. $10, when it use to be free.
Everybody on this sub, no matter where they live, always talk about how RTA is so slow and unreliable and somehow it's always 1+hours to get downtown via RTA for them. I'm gonna need to start seeing some receipts or proof of this because I live even further from downtown than you do on the west side near Lakewood. Yet even by bus (26, 25, or 55), it's about 20 minutes from my apartment to Tower City. 15 minutes from my Red Line station on W. 117th. Hell, even when I lived in Old Brooklyn, it never took more than 35 or so minutes to get to my office in Playhouse.
My personal theory - lots of people go out of their way to avoid riding the transit in this city and they almost always come up with some rationale to justify it. I used to be one of those people too until a few years ago when I was basically forced to learn how to use it and realized it's actually pretty decent.
I'm not gonna call it perfect. Obviously there's room for improvement, but my god the RTA is not some system crumbling beneath the surface.
Source - I ride it 4-5x daily. I just rode it (2 connections!) going from my apartment to the Beachland Ballroom a few weekends ago. That trip by itself was barely an hour! From what is essentially Lakewood to Euclid!
Tremont/Ohio City is a 30 min walk to the guardians game or 40+ min public transit, if you donāt live right next to the train. 5 min drive.
Before moving to Cleveland I took public transit, walked, and rarely drove, but itās too inconvenient, and time consuming to consider here. The only time I take it, is going to the Feast in the summer.
Just looked up Beachland Ballroom, 15 min drive, an 1 and 10 min on public transit. I would have to rearrange my schedule, to have enough time to be able to use it.
You know there's more transit options in Ohio City than the Red Line, right? Off the top of my head, you have the 26 along Detroit and the 22, 25, 45, and 51 which all connect at the West Side Market, but they also share routes along stretchs of Lorain and Pearl/W. 25th. Any of these buses can get you to Tower City in way less than 40 minutes (unless you're also including walking time here? I can't think of anyway else you got 40 minutes).
Tremont is more limited in transit options, but the 25 still runs through there 24/7 and can get you from, say, the Bourbon Barrel to Progressive Field in under 20.
Collinwood is a huge blindspot for RTA. I have no idea why they ignore it. There is no direct route downtown except the 39 which for some reason is only weekday rush hours. It is the worst part about living around here.
People use "cash grab" far too loosely. The money collected from these meters feeds directly to the city's general fund, which goes toward all the vital services that so many in this sub claim are subpar in this city. Want better security? More police presense? Better firefighting equipment? Less potholes? This is one of the ways the city raises money for those things. Mayor Bibb is not walking around the meters, twirling his mustache, and laughing maniacally like a comic book villain as he ponders on his grand scheme to line his pockets.
Dynamic pricing for parking? The price to park changes? 24 hour fees? Video surveillance?
Cleveland is just getting an active downtown back. It is too early to make these changes. Cleveland has crime, loitering, panhandling, and litter that deter visitors to the city. Donāt take those meters out! Keep them in place so if this fails they can go back to the old way.
Also, that parking app has been hacked in the past.
While weāre not perfect, I would disagree with some of these points, particularly the litter part. I regularly hear positive comments from people visiting the city about how clean the city is.
I know there are some problem areas and all, but overall we are doing better than many other larger or mid sized cities.
Crime overall is down by a considerable (and noticeable) degree, but I will concede that the recent rash of car break ins have also been a problem - one that hurts the progress we have made, and can skew the numbers on overall crime stats.
I do agree that public square, tower city, and the area surrounding the casino and E. 4th have serious issues with loitering and panhandling. I think the primary issue being some overly aggressive homeless and mentally unstable folks, that are either milling about aimlessly, or harassing passersby - which has been making people, particularly some women I know, feel unsafe downtown.
I agree that this new parking policy will hurt downtown businesses, and the ādynamic pricingā part is especially concerning to me. The only positive I can see is if this means that street parking will be made available while events are happening downtown. The parking bans during games etc has gotten a few people I know who had their cars towed. This only discourages people from coming back and spending money in the city, and allows the private lots to charge insane exorbitant rates with a lack of available street parking. I think people would be willing to pay a slightly higher rate on game days if it means we get some street parking back. A lot of folks are concerned in Ohio City (where I live) about reports that they will be putting in more metered parking spaces, when a lot of residents only have street parking available, with no driveway. Patrons to local businesses have been coming to park on the surrounding side streets to avoid the paid spots, and itās been putting a strain on parking availability for residents. Now the city is talking about expanding parking meters in the area, and itās got people worried. I think a better use of resources would be more patrols in Ohio City to reduce the repeated car break ins. It all just seems like one more way to bleed residents dry, financially speaking.
I came from Boston. Boston used to have similar problems as Cleveland including waterfront development needs. Cleveland can become as beautiful and welcoming as Boston. I love Cleveland, but there is no reason the areas around the shelters smell and are littered with trash. Some areas actually reek of Urine. Boston has great resources for people in need, including homeless shelters, but they donāt reek.
Take a drive down Train and tell me how clean our city is. There are areas that are actually dumplike littered. Buildings boarded up or with windows all broken should not be acceptable. The city needs to address the blight. Public square and the areas immediately surrounding are clean, but the city is more than public square.
Car jacking, theft, street takeovers, shootingsā¦.these are normal in Cleveland. Crime has been so normalized that you donāt think it is a problem. We also donāt know about a lot of the crime unless we know the victim or police/city workers. Cleveland is listed in the top 10 of cities with high crime rates.
You bring up residents which is something to consider. If you want people to live in the Urban areas, you canāt make paid parking 24/7. Where are residents and their guests supposed to park overnight?
There are so many areas that the council should be focusing on to improve the livability and productivity of the city. Council is so busy just focusing on ways to simply increase revenue in the short term. They need to start looking at the long term plan for the city and stop making short sighted changes.
In regards to the comparisons to Boston, how do we address and manage these challenges, while balancing it against maintaining affordability for the average person, sustaining the relatively low cost of living that Cleveland offers?
Boston famously has an extremely high cost of living (on par with NYC). While Boston (and Massachusetts as a whole) does offer numerous benefits and services for that cost, how do we improve those services (and outcomes) without exponentially increasing the cost of living? I am not saying that it has to be one or the other, I am asking how we manage expectations, and cost, while still offering reasonable improvements to quality of life.
I think we generally want the same things for the city, and the people in it, I am just asking how we accomplish them, while managing expectations, without making comparisons that will not necessarily translate the same on a micro (and/or macro) scale. Finding a solution that scales (up, or down, relative to city size, and its individual needs), can be somewhat difficult, as something that works in one city may not translate into being equally effective in another, as the material conditions can be considerably different. This is something community development experts, economists, and civil engineers have been debating, discussing, and theorizing for quite some time.
I donāt have any delusions that we here on Reddit will miraculously solve these pressing issues, but I do believe that common sense solutions, that are informed by the experiences of everyday people, can still have a meaningful impact.
Thereās never been an issue with street parking in Cleveland though. Cleveland is the easiest city youāll find for that. Saying weāre now charging to make more parking is an absolute joke.
We are definitely in way better shape than say a New York or Chicago, sure. But as gentrification, and expanding entertainment and nightlife districts grow in popularity, parking for residents has become increasingly challenging (particularly, for example, in Ohio City, Detroit Shoreway, and Tremont).
Increased metered parking has driven traffic and visitors further out into neighborhoods and residential streets in search of free parking, putting strain on neighborhoods where on street parking, and a lack of driveways, is the norm.
Iām not arguing for citywide free parking, Iām asking for more foresight, and better strategic planning. Iām asking for consideration and prioritization of the needs of residents, over the needs of (potential) visitors.
While we do need to encourage suburban and outer ring residents (not to mention those who live in the city itself) to come into these areas and spend time/money, we also need to balance this with the very different needs of the population that resides in, or on the outskirts of, these entertainment and nightlife districts.
One of this issues you havenāt hit on, but itās also an issue with residential parking. The new build apartment buildings, are being built without enough parking for its residents. They claim that people donāt even have cars anymore and the added cost isnāt needed. Itās really adding strain on areas that already have limited street parking spots available.
Definitely a fair point. Add to that, exorbitant charges and parking fees for the buildings that DO have garages and lots - causing many residents to opt out, choosing to park on the street for free instead, thereby putting further strain on the already limited parking availability.
Interesting. I have to be desperate to go somewhere and be willing to pay parkingā¦. Or I expect some kind of security/accountability if Iām paying to park my car somewhere (they are responsible to keep my car safe) which is a pipe dream.
What attractions downtown are there not available in our suburbs? I can only think of playhouse & the casino but I donāt gamble.
Thatās fair, but I feel like both concerts and sporting events. Itās expected to pay for parking nearly anywhere you would go. The way I read the article was that it was geared more towards the day-to-day businesses in the area.
This. While $2 is absurdly cheap, motorist entitlement to free storage for their two-ton machines is a real thing. Not to mention that it encourages car use, and thus, traffic.
So you will instead use up more gas and your own personal time parking farther away, risking your vehicle in unattended lots with no enforcement, just to save $1.50 an hour? Idk seems like you may need to rerun that cost-benefit analysis.
Sorry, I didn't mean to word it as in a judgment call on you specifically, but just from an economics perspective, the introduction of metered and/or limited parking at a bar will discourage drinking and driving.
The antithesis of this is when cities mandate required parking minimums for establishments such as bars. If the parking is also free, then the city/establishment is actively encouraging drinking and driving. Not to any one person specifically, but in general.
If only there were similar sized cities all over the world with data to prove their hypothesis. I guess they ignored the fact that it doesn't work anywhere else. It will totally work in Cleveland though
Downtown Cincinnati enforces their meters from 8am-9pm M-F, 9am-9pm Sat, and 2pm-9pm Sunday. Meters are enforced even more closer to the Bengals/Reds stadiums which are til 11pm on Fri and Sat and 9pm on Sun.
Cincinnati's rates are more "dynamic" in nature and vary depending on where in the city you are. Downtown can be as much as $2.50/hour, OTR is around $1.50. It's been like this for a while down there and hasn't seemed to have any impact on businesses or traffic.
Counterpoint: Storing your private property in the public right-of-way means other taxpaying citizens can't use it. The fees are nominal in exchange for the service provided.
Exactly. I remember when I had to take several economics and finance courses for my masters, our professor always told us one of the best examples of a negative externality in society is the automobile. Recent studies have shown that cars are responsible for almost as much CO2 emissions as commercial flights and nearly 2x as much emissions as commuter buses. Single-passenger cars (i.e. just driver) are responsible for even more.
Our reliance on cars puts a huge strain on public resources even at the local level. Pot holes, for instance - caused mostly by cars and it costs money to repair. God forbid a motorist at the very least contribute to the fund that helps clean up their mess.
As much as I absolutely agree that investing in quality public transit (and creating an environment that encourages and incentivizes people to use it) is preferable to a car dependent system/society - no amount of correction in consumer behavior will offset the damage caused by industrial and corporate environmental pollution.
Again, i sincerely believe and agree that your points are correct, and valid - but this narrative being perpetuated by government and various interested groups, that if we just change our behaviors as members of the general public, we will make a meaningful impact on the level of environmental damages caused by our current system, is placing blame on the wrong culprit, and being used to shame and blame the average citizen, instead of addressing the overwhelmingly more prevalent causes.
No amount of recycling, emissions reduction, or other consumer oriented policy solutions will be able to offset the industrial and corporate pollution (which enjoys numerous exemptions, such as the carbon credits system). While the average citizen should not abdicate responsibility and should do their part by changing their daily habits to positively affect environmental impacts, we, most importantly, need to hold corporate polluters responsible, and come up with meaningful solutions and policies that curb these effects.
All that being said, investing in, and maintaining public transit infrastructure, should be a top priority in cities across the country, and could positively impact all of the factors and concerns people have mentioned here about this policy change.
Fair point. I understand how limiting how long people can park in these areas will be beneficial, but I still dont think these should be used to make profit for the city
I actually agree with the statement that Train Ave., and areas with similar issues with dumping are a big concern, but again, these areas are few and far between. It doesnāt reflect well on our city, and it needs addressed, but they are overall, a rarity.
I will also agree that city council (save for a couple members) are focused on the wrong things, and could be doing more to address the issues facing average working people, and those in need.
There are definitely a few ways we could be helping the homeless and at risk individuals in the community more, and allocating resources (or using them more effectively) to address the underlying problems, adjusting our current approach. That being said, we are experiencing an affordability and homelessness crisis nationwide, with overcrowding, funding shortfalls, and a lack of (meaningful) support from city and state officials. While the situation here in Cleveland is not ideal, there are many other cities with far worse problems. We could definitely be doing better, and again, city council could focus on addressing these issues with (as you said) long term solutions, instead of just putting a ābandaidā on the issue temporarily, which seems to be the approach they are taking, mostly out of political convenience, and for the sake of optics.
While crime rates saw a small uptick during the pandemic, with domestic violence and murders driving these increases, crime is notably down since, and has been at a historic low overall in the last decade. If you look at overall population, and population density, relative to size, our crime rates are relatively low, no matter what any scare tactic ātop 10ā lists would have you believe. If you included the surrounding metro area, which would include area suburbs, this would push population numbers and geographic size closer to other comparable cities, and our crime rates overall would be incredibly low. I challenge anyone who claims crime is bad, to look back at Cleveland in the 80s and early 90s, up to, and as late as, 2005 (with all relevant crime stats), and tell me itās not a massive improvement. Again, we have an issue with car break ins, but the prevalence of the other crimes you mentioned has greatly decreased from years past, with perhaps the exception of the recent (and short lived) phenomenon of street takeovers. We are in an incredibly better place than we were twenty years ago, and the majority of areas have become noticeably safer - even those areas with widespread poverty, that are statistically more likely to have higher rates of violence and crime overall. We must not let the scare tactics of sensationalized reporting, and increased access to up to the minute information skew our perceptions of danger, and sideline the clear progress that has been made in increasing overall safety in our communities. A number of community leaders have made meaningful contributions to affect change in the city, and the success of those efforts should not be overlooked or downplayed. Can we improve? Of course, and it is something we should continue striving for. But there are plenty of folks already out there doing the work, and it shows.
As far as the subject of the original post, and parking, which Iāll admit weāve gone off topic from - I agree that we need to consider the needs of residents first, and their ability to live a generally convenient and normal life, such as having guests over, with ample room for their vehicles. Not offering off hours for parking meters is going to create issues and is likely, as you said, a short sighted, short term solution (and money grab), that will not solve long term funding issues, nor will it bring focus to the underlying issues, like making necessary infrastructure improvements that encourage and foster increased access to public transit (and several other solutions), that can, and will, drive traffic (and dollars) into downtown, not to mention the many other entertainment and nightlife destinations across the city.
Parking is the number one reason I donāt go downtown right now.
They need to build a huge parking lot a mile outside the city with free shuttle service and they need to make that shit luxury. One shuttle needs to leave every 5-10 minutes and they need to hit the flats and E 9th.
I want a police officer on each shuttle. Itās not hard to get people down town if they actually wanted to do it.
Given the prevalence of unenforced payroll tax fraud in the bar and restaurant industry they kinda are tho. Iām also not saying that municipal governments arenāt corrupt, both large cities and small towns will always experience corruption under a hyper capitalist formation of the economy. Because the only goal is wealth accumulation, thus money can always grease the wheels. I just think itās silly to believe this parking issue is not worthy of city oversight and change because of unrelated corruption.
Yeah as opposed to the workers paradise of the Soviet Union, or contemporary Venezuela where people have finally moved beyond individual capital accumulation.
Also, I wouldnāt consider payroll taxes fraud anywhere near the same as government mismanaging the taxpayers money, Iām not even sure what point youāre trying to make there.
Funny how you didnāt mention China where corruption is essentially 0. Look up what they did to Jack Ma. Itās almost like corruption in those other cases is due to other factors rather than the organization of their economy. Now letās try the reverse. Name me 1 capitalist country that is as strong as China on corruption?
Also the point is that Bars and Restaurants (and every other company tbh) rely much more on the public dollar than people like you would care to admit. Not really that complicated of a point, but people with your ideology are generally very bad at reading comprehension so I get it.
Thatās what they told me when I was getting my diploma in economic history from university, verbatim actually.
China has incredibly unique and distinct cultural differences than the remainder of most other countries, I would also put Korea and Japan on a list of nations with similar efforts to tamp down corruption.
Chinese corruption is more of the āswap out rebar for bamboo and pocket the moneyā kind. This is something thatās necessary to cut down on. This is very similar to that of countries in Latin America as well, some of which Iāve seen first hand.
Western corruption is more āslide and envelope under the doorway with 10k cash to the person deciding the bids on this lucrative contractā kind.
It is human nature to be greedy, the goal of capitalism is to turn that desire into economic efficiencies. This of course is not always leading to positive or intended outcomes, but negative externalities are existing in every economic system.
At a fundamental level all business rely on public tax revenue given we are all using utilities, roads etc. a bar owner who fails to pay payroll taxes falls back on the owner of the bar. Government mismanagement of public tax dollars always falls back on the taxpayers. That is where there is a fundamental difference between the two.
Wage theft (and by that metric, the payroll tax fraud that results) is the largest percentage of theft in the nation, and comprises the most dollar for dollar losses. So, I believe this commenters assertion may actually be pretty accurate. Again, as they mentioned, this is a function of a hyper capitalist system that incentivizes and encourages wealth accumulation over anything else, and encourages amorality in the accumulation of that wealth.
I think youāll find that eliminating parking minimums is actually giving MORE power to businesses instead of taking it away.
How does the city know how many parking spaces each business ought to have? I say if the city changes what they charge for the parking they control, then all the better.
It's not wrong. People will big the first available parking spot they can find and camp there even when it's supposed to be for in and out visits. I have never once struggled to find parking in Cleveland. It's just usually I have to go through a parking garage which sucks
I don't mind paying more for street parking, never used the meter when they were just coins. But some of the private parking garages are just not great experiences.
Years ago my laptop went on the fritz right before Christmas. I dropped it off at the Apple Store at Crocker Park for repair. When I went back a couple days later to collect it, all the parking meters were bagged because some local business sponsored free parking for the days before Christmas -- "for your convenience!" they proudly proclaimed.
So instead of popping a quarter in the meter, running inside to grab my computer and then heading out, I had to trek into the [free] parking garage; up several levels, and walk all the way to the store and back. "Convenience" my ass.
dang bro. they made you walk huh?
They sure did! Both ways!! Can you believe it?
Well you did it, and you saved a quarter.
Sure, but I'd have gladly exchanged the quarter for an extra 20 minutes that evening.
Its counter intuitive but makes sense
Gonna push them all into tower city parking and revitalise tower. GENIUS! šš„³
/s
Cents ftfy.
It'll make a few extra cents, and will cost a whole lotta extra dollars.
This change should help downtown businesses that complain that their customers have no place to park during Cavs or Guardians games, when on-street parking is all taken and the lots are at surge pricing. Helping them was one of the motivations that the city explained to residents in Ohio City.
The city also analyzed that $1.50/hour is still less expensive than other cities (Columbus, Toledo, Pittsburgh). I didnāt fact-check, but it sounds believable.
Just watch, Itāll go up after a year. Make sure to voice your concerns people!
Possible. The city says they plan to play with the rates to balance parking spot turnover (availability) with affordability. Step one is to get the app and kiosks in place, step two is collect data and feedback.
For Cavs games and evening Guardians games, parking is/was free. Iāve never had an issue finding street parking, even during sold out games, and with other events going on. Now why go downtown, when I just have added expenses?
All the cities listing, also have free street parking after 6. Cleveland will be the only city that now charges.
Columbus is 1$ an hour plus .35$ fee. 1.35 for one hour or 3.35 for three hours
On the Columbus Pay-for-Parking site, they say rates and times vary according to location.
I found in my parking history a $3/hour session in Columbus.
https://preview.redd.it/mjc0g0h5z59g1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a7689a095241438bdf666039e54fa0db324f1b1
Woah don't you be coming with facts and proof. I'd much rather trust some boomer authority who visited Cbus in 2007.
Bus life is awesome sometimes.
Moments like this bring such a feeling.
Yup I rarely drive downtown so I never worry about parking for events and sports. RTA life!!
And cycling! Anything is a parking spot for the bike (as long as you're not impeding foot traffic).
I feel so much freer since I've sold my car and use literally any other form of transportation.
https://preview.redd.it/w0ll39r6u59g1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=84fe0e4626f66d874e7327e37eff661bdb180deb
It was the opposite for me, felt trapped to certain areas
Itās sure as hell not helping the employees.
If this is not a cash grab and the goal is to get more turnover. Then why raise rates on that first hour?
$1 to $1.50 an hour seems still cheap.
Inflation, essentially. Money is worth less now. The parking needs to justify its existence. All of the real estate has value and needs to justify its existence.
The justification for it is for businesses to make money. Parking should be free. Bussing even should be free. The tax revenue generated from increased economic activity DWARFS any pennies generated by stupid 50 cent increases. Its just unintelligent. Tbh, they prob spent more money just in announcing and planning this and switching everything over than theyll make in a year or more.
The city should be as welcoming and safe as possible. Charging an extra few pennies for a meter is noy accomplishing that goal.
If parking is free, then people camp out in the spaces; which means customers can't find nearby parking, so they don't patronize the businesses.
My question is; why do they claim it's not about getting more money. And your answer is; so they can get more money.
They're not collecting more value of money. They're collecting the same value of money, which is a larger dollar amount now.
How are you supposed to get turnover without making the lot less appealing over time?
Cost is a good deterrent.
What? Did you reply to the wrong person?
My argument has nothing to do with over time. Only the first hour.
Oh, that's because increasing the initial cost is a deterrent from parking at all. The escalating cost is a deterrent from staying put.
I'm not sure I buy the idea people will pay more to drive downtown to park at meters to do stuff downtown they can't do in their home area or elsewhere.
They will, because the only people who go downtown are NPC drones and me, who observes them doing everything people say they will never do.
Get rid of all the parking spots.
Add more transit.
Yes I am 100% in agreement with you in theory (and as a RTA rider who makes 4-5 connections per day). However, it is also important to note that the City of Cleveland does not fund or have any authority on the RTA aside from the Mayor appointing several Board members. So any issues with transit is out of Cleveland's hands.
The RTA is basically an extension of the State Government which has several main sources of revenue, but most of the general operating funding comes from a 1% County-wide sales tax (which was voted on in 1975).
I would love for Cleveland to have less parking and more transit too, but that's more of a long-term societal/systemic issue than anything Cleveland or City Council can (or even really should) tackle themselves.
(Also, RTA announced possible service cuts starting next year, so in order to get more transit we'd need either a large swatch of people moving into the County - something to the tune of hundreds of thousands or a tax increase and I guarantee almost everybody mad about these meter increases will never in a thousand years vote for that haha).
I dream of a streetcar line down mayfield. Would be a massive clusterfuck to build, and NIMBY would never allow it. But if it hooked up with the rta in little Italy it would connect a massive chunk of the east side to the city through public transport. Would also remove a lot of traffic from mayfield
Buses run on mayfield already. Itās hard to rely on them as they skip stops or hour delayed especially in rain and snow when you actually need them the most.
Only if there were not people getting stabbed on the Rapids. Id rather be in control of my destination and my life. I usually over feed the meter anyways. Just sucks if the slow county workers are on break, only one computer plugged in or "left the office early" and takes three hours to be seen or take care of your business ( workmens comp office).
While nuisance behaviors can be a problem in and around public transit, occurrences of actual violence and criminal activity is very rare.
While I can empathize with anyone who has felt unsafe on public transit, and do believe we can do more to encourage and increase safety, overall our public transit is very safe in comparison to other metro areas.
We should not be engaging in fear mongering, which only perpetuates the perception that public transportation is dirty and dangerous, and only serves to discourage ridership.
That being said, most that hold these kinds of attitudes and false assumptions about city life are the typical scared suburbanites who also say they refuse to go downtown because āthey will probably get shot/robbedā.
I am not sad for the city to lose out on any potential revenue from someone perpetuating a narrative that is typically rooted in racial stereotypes, or other false assumptions made about the socioeconomic status (and the implied criminality) of city dwellers. I, and many others, are more than happy to lose your business, if it means a healthy distance from the bigots and nimbys.
People donāt use the solid transit options we already have.
And living in the city I can take a sub $10 uber all over regularly door to door.
If you build it, they wonāt come.
Where and how far are you taking an uber for less than $10? And if that's per trip, you're spending at least $20 right there (going to/returning). On weekends, ubers are more like $20 heading downtown not even including a tip.
I genuinely believe people in most of America avoid transit because they just aren't used to it. It is a bit of a learning curve if you're used to driving everywhere but when the Healthline replaced the #6 back in 2007, ridership increased and continued doing so until it peaked in 2014.
So if you build it and make it good and reliable, people will come.
Hell, I have actually met 3 new riders all in the past week and I got to teach them how to use the Transit app and request stops. It was awesome! I saw one of them again on the red line a few days ago and we gave each other one a little headnod of recognition. Sometimes, this is what progress looks like.
I live in Ohio City and uber multiple times per week. Almost always in the city proper. A majority of my rides are from Lakewood to downtown.
You check both uber and Lyft, walk a few blocks or wait a bit if a major event let out.
I went to the Cavs game Monday on a $7 ride that got me door to door in like 6 minutes. The redline is 2 blocks from my house, costs $5 for two and takes 30+ minutes.
The people that take transit here are either enthusiasts or have no other option. If you can afford a decent car you can afford uber too. If you live in the burbs you are a lost cause for transit anyway.
I have family in Asia and NYC. They live on trains. The reason they take them is because driving is impossible. Asia is especially world class but when they come here they are in awe of what we can do in a day- with a seemingly private driver and no traffic.
Iām all for beefing up public transit but in a region with no traffic, ample parking, low col, and a driving culture it just isnāt competitive in a majority of cases.
But your $7 to get to the Cavs game on Monday would have just been the trip there, correct? So you would have had to pay again coming home? Assuming it's also $7 (I'm gonna guess it was more, but just for coninuity's sake), that's $14 right there, plus tip. That's almost 3x as much as you would have paid for a $5 all day pass. Not to mention you still have to wait for the uber/lyft. They don't just materialize as soon as a driver accepts your trip.
You live in Ohio City near the W. 25th station? Or the 65th station? If the former, you're looking at a 2-minute journey, if the latter then it's more like 5 minutes. I ride the red line all the time and track times on my trip, so I know this off-hand haha.
There is no way that you're red line trip takes 30 minutes. Those trains come every 15. So if you aren't familiar with the time table and maybe you just missed the train, you're still gonna get downtown in less than 20 minutes from where you live.
Or if you're near the W. 25th station, you could just walk across the bridge and not spend any money haha.
Iām by 25th. The official transit app time is 25min to the stadium and I find that best-case. I always try to leave a few before just in case. Iāve also found the app inaccurate. Either way to do this in the winter sucks compared to sitting on my couch sipping a cocktail until the uber arrives and takes me to the front door.
We can talk a few bucks or a few minutes but I really used myself as an example because I have maybe the best transit location in the city and Iād still choose uber all day every day. Flying out of the airport? Iāll take the uber every time to avoid lugging my nice bags through the neighborhood. The vast majority of people obviously choose to drive themselves for this stuff. And thatās really what youāre up against. The vast majority of people have no problem paying for parking.
I ride transit here because I enjoy it. Practically no one I know here (most live downtown or near west side) want to ride with me. If it cost $100 to uber to/from the game my wife would probably do it instead of hiking/waiting in the snow. I donāt think thatās unusual these days either. I canāt you how often I see people who can barely afford rent DoorDash $30 of Dunkin or something. Itās all about convenience.
The ātransit enthusiastsā around here canāt see any of this. They are blinded by their love of trains, buses, and big cities.
No I hear you, there's definitely something to be said about convenience of uber/lyft. But you're almost comparing apples to oranges here. You say to get from your couch to Rocket Fieldhouse would take around 25 minutes via transit which would include walking to the station and waiting a few minutes for the train.
If you're gonna measure transit use that way, then you need to also measure uber/lyft that way and include all the variables you're attributing to the RTA as well. It's not 6 minutes by uber vs. 25 minutes by RTA. It's [however long it takes for a driver to accept your ride + drive to you + traffic + find the drop off location] vs. 25 minutes via RTA. The difference may still err on the side of Uber/Lyft but it's not going to be as vast or exaggerated as you say.
However I will say that I agree that Transit has gotten more inaccurate since they updated it a few months back. The timetables on RTA's website are pretty much always accurate for most major routes, with a few minutes margin of error (red line is almost always on the dot, though).
Uh...where? Coming from the EU, this is fucking horrible.
Well yeah, no transit in America will compare to a lot of the EU. With some exceptions of course, mostly on the east coast but even NYC has issues and is lacking in major corrdiors (heading north or south in Brooklyn for instance is a pain in the ass). Washington DC is incredible but all trains stop running after midnight which kinda blows. Our country was sold to GM and all the oil oligarchies which fucked our transit. But having said that, RTA is easily the most reliable and most frequent transit system in Ohio. If you think the RTA is bad, you should ride COTA in Columbus - they make us look like the EU!
All this to say, you gotta kinda grade transit in America on a curve haha. And if you wanna make it better, there are ways to get your voice heard! There's several groups that advocate for better transit in not only Cleveland but in Ohio as well. All Aboard Ohio is one, and they're very serious and knowledgeable.
Ewwww
In the last thread, everybody who tried saying this and showing the rationalization behind the price hike (which isn't even really a "hike") were being downvoted to oblivion and you had people from like Westlake talking about how they will no longer be coming downtown on weekends lol. And honestly even $10 for 4 hours is still an insanely good deal. There's some private garages that charge $10+ an hour on weekends or game nights or a $20-30 flat rate.
Drivers are just used to special and prioritized treatment in this city and will throw a fit because now they actually have to pay to store their giant SUVs on city streets, nevermind the drivers who freely drive on the bus only lane along Euclid with 0 repercussion.
Midwesterners tend to feel that free parking is a human right.
Right or wrong I think of it like a cover charge to enter a business and Im not paying it. I will just shop elsewhere.
Yes. And this is exactly why this is bad for local businesses, especially small businesses, which are already struggling under the current conditions. I think this is a shortsighted move, and hopefully will be amended before it is officially rolled out.
Cleveland is a car centric city. Our public transit isnāt really that useable, so thatās not an option for most. Iām a 5 min drive downtown or itās about an hour using public transit one way. Why would I even use it? Now that I have to pay to park, Iāll just go someplace else. $10, when it use to be free.
Everybody on this sub, no matter where they live, always talk about how RTA is so slow and unreliable and somehow it's always 1+hours to get downtown via RTA for them. I'm gonna need to start seeing some receipts or proof of this because I live even further from downtown than you do on the west side near Lakewood. Yet even by bus (26, 25, or 55), it's about 20 minutes from my apartment to Tower City. 15 minutes from my Red Line station on W. 117th. Hell, even when I lived in Old Brooklyn, it never took more than 35 or so minutes to get to my office in Playhouse.
My personal theory - lots of people go out of their way to avoid riding the transit in this city and they almost always come up with some rationale to justify it. I used to be one of those people too until a few years ago when I was basically forced to learn how to use it and realized it's actually pretty decent.
I'm not gonna call it perfect. Obviously there's room for improvement, but my god the RTA is not some system crumbling beneath the surface.
Source - I ride it 4-5x daily. I just rode it (2 connections!) going from my apartment to the Beachland Ballroom a few weekends ago. That trip by itself was barely an hour! From what is essentially Lakewood to Euclid!
Tremont/Ohio City is a 30 min walk to the guardians game or 40+ min public transit, if you donāt live right next to the train. 5 min drive.
Before moving to Cleveland I took public transit, walked, and rarely drove, but itās too inconvenient, and time consuming to consider here. The only time I take it, is going to the Feast in the summer.
Just looked up Beachland Ballroom, 15 min drive, an 1 and 10 min on public transit. I would have to rearrange my schedule, to have enough time to be able to use it.
You know there's more transit options in Ohio City than the Red Line, right? Off the top of my head, you have the 26 along Detroit and the 22, 25, 45, and 51 which all connect at the West Side Market, but they also share routes along stretchs of Lorain and Pearl/W. 25th. Any of these buses can get you to Tower City in way less than 40 minutes (unless you're also including walking time here? I can't think of anyway else you got 40 minutes).
Tremont is more limited in transit options, but the 25 still runs through there 24/7 and can get you from, say, the Bourbon Barrel to Progressive Field in under 20.
Collinwood is a huge blindspot for RTA. I have no idea why they ignore it. There is no direct route downtown except the 39 which for some reason is only weekday rush hours. It is the worst part about living around here.
Itās a cash grab. who cares about other cities? we arent in those cities.
People use "cash grab" far too loosely. The money collected from these meters feeds directly to the city's general fund, which goes toward all the vital services that so many in this sub claim are subpar in this city. Want better security? More police presense? Better firefighting equipment? Less potholes? This is one of the ways the city raises money for those things. Mayor Bibb is not walking around the meters, twirling his mustache, and laughing maniacally like a comic book villain as he ponders on his grand scheme to line his pockets.
Taxes are already high enough. Maybe they should lower them with all this new revenue.
Dynamic pricing for parking? The price to park changes? 24 hour fees? Video surveillance?
Cleveland is just getting an active downtown back. It is too early to make these changes. Cleveland has crime, loitering, panhandling, and litter that deter visitors to the city. Donāt take those meters out! Keep them in place so if this fails they can go back to the old way.
Also, that parking app has been hacked in the past.
While weāre not perfect, I would disagree with some of these points, particularly the litter part. I regularly hear positive comments from people visiting the city about how clean the city is.
I know there are some problem areas and all, but overall we are doing better than many other larger or mid sized cities.
Crime overall is down by a considerable (and noticeable) degree, but I will concede that the recent rash of car break ins have also been a problem - one that hurts the progress we have made, and can skew the numbers on overall crime stats.
I do agree that public square, tower city, and the area surrounding the casino and E. 4th have serious issues with loitering and panhandling. I think the primary issue being some overly aggressive homeless and mentally unstable folks, that are either milling about aimlessly, or harassing passersby - which has been making people, particularly some women I know, feel unsafe downtown.
I agree that this new parking policy will hurt downtown businesses, and the ādynamic pricingā part is especially concerning to me. The only positive I can see is if this means that street parking will be made available while events are happening downtown. The parking bans during games etc has gotten a few people I know who had their cars towed. This only discourages people from coming back and spending money in the city, and allows the private lots to charge insane exorbitant rates with a lack of available street parking. I think people would be willing to pay a slightly higher rate on game days if it means we get some street parking back. A lot of folks are concerned in Ohio City (where I live) about reports that they will be putting in more metered parking spaces, when a lot of residents only have street parking available, with no driveway. Patrons to local businesses have been coming to park on the surrounding side streets to avoid the paid spots, and itās been putting a strain on parking availability for residents. Now the city is talking about expanding parking meters in the area, and itās got people worried. I think a better use of resources would be more patrols in Ohio City to reduce the repeated car break ins. It all just seems like one more way to bleed residents dry, financially speaking.
I came from Boston. Boston used to have similar problems as Cleveland including waterfront development needs. Cleveland can become as beautiful and welcoming as Boston. I love Cleveland, but there is no reason the areas around the shelters smell and are littered with trash. Some areas actually reek of Urine. Boston has great resources for people in need, including homeless shelters, but they donāt reek.
Take a drive down Train and tell me how clean our city is. There are areas that are actually dumplike littered. Buildings boarded up or with windows all broken should not be acceptable. The city needs to address the blight. Public square and the areas immediately surrounding are clean, but the city is more than public square.
Car jacking, theft, street takeovers, shootingsā¦.these are normal in Cleveland. Crime has been so normalized that you donāt think it is a problem. We also donāt know about a lot of the crime unless we know the victim or police/city workers. Cleveland is listed in the top 10 of cities with high crime rates.
You bring up residents which is something to consider. If you want people to live in the Urban areas, you canāt make paid parking 24/7. Where are residents and their guests supposed to park overnight?
There are so many areas that the council should be focusing on to improve the livability and productivity of the city. Council is so busy just focusing on ways to simply increase revenue in the short term. They need to start looking at the long term plan for the city and stop making short sighted changes.
In regards to the comparisons to Boston, how do we address and manage these challenges, while balancing it against maintaining affordability for the average person, sustaining the relatively low cost of living that Cleveland offers?
Boston famously has an extremely high cost of living (on par with NYC). While Boston (and Massachusetts as a whole) does offer numerous benefits and services for that cost, how do we improve those services (and outcomes) without exponentially increasing the cost of living? I am not saying that it has to be one or the other, I am asking how we manage expectations, and cost, while still offering reasonable improvements to quality of life.
I think we generally want the same things for the city, and the people in it, I am just asking how we accomplish them, while managing expectations, without making comparisons that will not necessarily translate the same on a micro (and/or macro) scale. Finding a solution that scales (up, or down, relative to city size, and its individual needs), can be somewhat difficult, as something that works in one city may not translate into being equally effective in another, as the material conditions can be considerably different. This is something community development experts, economists, and civil engineers have been debating, discussing, and theorizing for quite some time.
I donāt have any delusions that we here on Reddit will miraculously solve these pressing issues, but I do believe that common sense solutions, that are informed by the experiences of everyday people, can still have a meaningful impact.
Thereās never been an issue with street parking in Cleveland though. Cleveland is the easiest city youāll find for that. Saying weāre now charging to make more parking is an absolute joke.
We are definitely in way better shape than say a New York or Chicago, sure. But as gentrification, and expanding entertainment and nightlife districts grow in popularity, parking for residents has become increasingly challenging (particularly, for example, in Ohio City, Detroit Shoreway, and Tremont).
Increased metered parking has driven traffic and visitors further out into neighborhoods and residential streets in search of free parking, putting strain on neighborhoods where on street parking, and a lack of driveways, is the norm.
Iām not arguing for citywide free parking, Iām asking for more foresight, and better strategic planning. Iām asking for consideration and prioritization of the needs of residents, over the needs of (potential) visitors.
While we do need to encourage suburban and outer ring residents (not to mention those who live in the city itself) to come into these areas and spend time/money, we also need to balance this with the very different needs of the population that resides in, or on the outskirts of, these entertainment and nightlife districts.
One of this issues you havenāt hit on, but itās also an issue with residential parking. The new build apartment buildings, are being built without enough parking for its residents. They claim that people donāt even have cars anymore and the added cost isnāt needed. Itās really adding strain on areas that already have limited street parking spots available.
Definitely a fair point. Add to that, exorbitant charges and parking fees for the buildings that DO have garages and lots - causing many residents to opt out, choosing to park on the street for free instead, thereby putting further strain on the already limited parking availability.
Interesting. I have to be desperate to go somewhere and be willing to pay parkingā¦. Or I expect some kind of security/accountability if Iām paying to park my car somewhere (they are responsible to keep my car safe) which is a pipe dream.
What attractions downtown are there not available in our suburbs? I can only think of playhouse & the casino but I donāt gamble.
Concerts, sporting events
Thatās fair, but I feel like both concerts and sporting events. Itās expected to pay for parking nearly anywhere you would go. The way I read the article was that it was geared more towards the day-to-day businesses in the area.
I like going to a bar downtown after work but Iām not gonna pay to park after six. Iāll stay local. Sorry Masthead.
You'll pay $7 plus tip for a beer but won't pay $2 to park your comically large vehicle for two hours?
This. While $2 is absurdly cheap, motorist entitlement to free storage for their two-ton machines is a real thing. Not to mention that it encourages car use, and thus, traffic.
I pay enough in city taxes that I'm not paying anymore for nothing. I'll keep parking in random lots that don't have enforcement.
So you will instead use up more gas and your own personal time parking farther away, risking your vehicle in unattended lots with no enforcement, just to save $1.50 an hour? Idk seems like you may need to rerun that cost-benefit analysis.
I've never paid for parking downtown and dont Intend to now. There are plenty of spots to park for free around.
Ooh another latent effect of the meters - discouraging drinking and driving!
Lol more for the pizza and kale Caesar but thatās an assumption for sure.
Sorry, I didn't mean to word it as in a judgment call on you specifically, but just from an economics perspective, the introduction of metered and/or limited parking at a bar will discourage drinking and driving.
The antithesis of this is when cities mandate required parking minimums for establishments such as bars. If the parking is also free, then the city/establishment is actively encouraging drinking and driving. Not to any one person specifically, but in general.
If only there were similar sized cities all over the world with data to prove their hypothesis. I guess they ignored the fact that it doesn't work anywhere else. It will totally work in Cleveland though
Downtown Cincinnati enforces their meters from 8am-9pm M-F, 9am-9pm Sat, and 2pm-9pm Sunday. Meters are enforced even more closer to the Bengals/Reds stadiums which are til 11pm on Fri and Sat and 9pm on Sun.
Cincinnati's rates are more "dynamic" in nature and vary depending on where in the city you are. Downtown can be as much as $2.50/hour, OTR is around $1.50. It's been like this for a while down there and hasn't seemed to have any impact on businesses or traffic.
Weird thing to say when the expert consensus is nearly unanimous that parking is too cheap* in urban areas.
That was my point. I was using sarcasm.
lol I made a typo. Itās too cheap.
Here is famed urban economist and planner Donald Shoup discussing it.
https://youtu.be/HsIkFmUW4GA?si=IHJn88MGYuQK-BX3
I will never support citizen having to pay to park on the streets their tax dollars pay for. Just because everyone else doe it, doesn't make it right
Counterpoint: Storing your private property in the public right-of-way means other taxpaying citizens can't use it. The fees are nominal in exchange for the service provided.
Exactly. I remember when I had to take several economics and finance courses for my masters, our professor always told us one of the best examples of a negative externality in society is the automobile. Recent studies have shown that cars are responsible for almost as much CO2 emissions as commercial flights and nearly 2x as much emissions as commuter buses. Single-passenger cars (i.e. just driver) are responsible for even more.
Our reliance on cars puts a huge strain on public resources even at the local level. Pot holes, for instance - caused mostly by cars and it costs money to repair. God forbid a motorist at the very least contribute to the fund that helps clean up their mess.
As much as I absolutely agree that investing in quality public transit (and creating an environment that encourages and incentivizes people to use it) is preferable to a car dependent system/society - no amount of correction in consumer behavior will offset the damage caused by industrial and corporate environmental pollution.
Again, i sincerely believe and agree that your points are correct, and valid - but this narrative being perpetuated by government and various interested groups, that if we just change our behaviors as members of the general public, we will make a meaningful impact on the level of environmental damages caused by our current system, is placing blame on the wrong culprit, and being used to shame and blame the average citizen, instead of addressing the overwhelmingly more prevalent causes.
No amount of recycling, emissions reduction, or other consumer oriented policy solutions will be able to offset the industrial and corporate pollution (which enjoys numerous exemptions, such as the carbon credits system). While the average citizen should not abdicate responsibility and should do their part by changing their daily habits to positively affect environmental impacts, we, most importantly, need to hold corporate polluters responsible, and come up with meaningful solutions and policies that curb these effects.
All that being said, investing in, and maintaining public transit infrastructure, should be a top priority in cities across the country, and could positively impact all of the factors and concerns people have mentioned here about this policy change.
I think the solution lies in finding the balance somewhere between these three positions
Fair point. I understand how limiting how long people can park in these areas will be beneficial, but I still dont think these should be used to make profit for the city
Honestly I'd be surprised if the parking fees netted the city much money after expenses.
So instead everyone should pay rent to store your private vehicle?
And if they believed 2+2=5, I would not believe it, either.
Have you guys actually asked business owners? None of them are happy - this now acts as yet another barrier to lure suburbanites downtown
Wild article title framing when virtually all research on parking shows that yes, the city is in fact correct.
They are wrong
I actually agree with the statement that Train Ave., and areas with similar issues with dumping are a big concern, but again, these areas are few and far between. It doesnāt reflect well on our city, and it needs addressed, but they are overall, a rarity.
I will also agree that city council (save for a couple members) are focused on the wrong things, and could be doing more to address the issues facing average working people, and those in need.
There are definitely a few ways we could be helping the homeless and at risk individuals in the community more, and allocating resources (or using them more effectively) to address the underlying problems, adjusting our current approach. That being said, we are experiencing an affordability and homelessness crisis nationwide, with overcrowding, funding shortfalls, and a lack of (meaningful) support from city and state officials. While the situation here in Cleveland is not ideal, there are many other cities with far worse problems. We could definitely be doing better, and again, city council could focus on addressing these issues with (as you said) long term solutions, instead of just putting a ābandaidā on the issue temporarily, which seems to be the approach they are taking, mostly out of political convenience, and for the sake of optics.
While crime rates saw a small uptick during the pandemic, with domestic violence and murders driving these increases, crime is notably down since, and has been at a historic low overall in the last decade. If you look at overall population, and population density, relative to size, our crime rates are relatively low, no matter what any scare tactic ātop 10ā lists would have you believe. If you included the surrounding metro area, which would include area suburbs, this would push population numbers and geographic size closer to other comparable cities, and our crime rates overall would be incredibly low. I challenge anyone who claims crime is bad, to look back at Cleveland in the 80s and early 90s, up to, and as late as, 2005 (with all relevant crime stats), and tell me itās not a massive improvement. Again, we have an issue with car break ins, but the prevalence of the other crimes you mentioned has greatly decreased from years past, with perhaps the exception of the recent (and short lived) phenomenon of street takeovers. We are in an incredibly better place than we were twenty years ago, and the majority of areas have become noticeably safer - even those areas with widespread poverty, that are statistically more likely to have higher rates of violence and crime overall. We must not let the scare tactics of sensationalized reporting, and increased access to up to the minute information skew our perceptions of danger, and sideline the clear progress that has been made in increasing overall safety in our communities. A number of community leaders have made meaningful contributions to affect change in the city, and the success of those efforts should not be overlooked or downplayed. Can we improve? Of course, and it is something we should continue striving for. But there are plenty of folks already out there doing the work, and it shows.
As far as the subject of the original post, and parking, which Iāll admit weāve gone off topic from - I agree that we need to consider the needs of residents first, and their ability to live a generally convenient and normal life, such as having guests over, with ample room for their vehicles. Not offering off hours for parking meters is going to create issues and is likely, as you said, a short sighted, short term solution (and money grab), that will not solve long term funding issues, nor will it bring focus to the underlying issues, like making necessary infrastructure improvements that encourage and foster increased access to public transit (and several other solutions), that can, and will, drive traffic (and dollars) into downtown, not to mention the many other entertainment and nightlife destinations across the city.
So stupid
Yes, it'll keep the poors from taking up the parking spots people who matter want to use.
If the punishment is a fine, it's legal for the rich.
Parking is the number one reason I donāt go downtown right now.
They need to build a huge parking lot a mile outside the city with free shuttle service and they need to make that shit luxury. One shuttle needs to leave every 5-10 minutes and they need to hit the flats and E 9th.
I want a police officer on each shuttle. Itās not hard to get people down town if they actually wanted to do it.
A city with corruption issues and money mismanagement wants to tell businesses what's good for em that's delightful
Ahh yes, as opposed to the famously non-corrupt and financially sound RESTAURANT AND BAR INDUSTRYā¦. Gimme a break.
The bar and restaurant industry arenāt funded by and directly spending your tax dollars.
Given the prevalence of unenforced payroll tax fraud in the bar and restaurant industry they kinda are tho. Iām also not saying that municipal governments arenāt corrupt, both large cities and small towns will always experience corruption under a hyper capitalist formation of the economy. Because the only goal is wealth accumulation, thus money can always grease the wheels. I just think itās silly to believe this parking issue is not worthy of city oversight and change because of unrelated corruption.
Yeah as opposed to the workers paradise of the Soviet Union, or contemporary Venezuela where people have finally moved beyond individual capital accumulation.
Also, I wouldnāt consider payroll taxes fraud anywhere near the same as government mismanaging the taxpayers money, Iām not even sure what point youāre trying to make there.
Funny how you didnāt mention China where corruption is essentially 0. Look up what they did to Jack Ma. Itās almost like corruption in those other cases is due to other factors rather than the organization of their economy. Now letās try the reverse. Name me 1 capitalist country that is as strong as China on corruption?
Also the point is that Bars and Restaurants (and every other company tbh) rely much more on the public dollar than people like you would care to admit. Not really that complicated of a point, but people with your ideology are generally very bad at reading comprehension so I get it.
Thatās what they told me when I was getting my diploma in economic history from university, verbatim actually.
China has incredibly unique and distinct cultural differences than the remainder of most other countries, I would also put Korea and Japan on a list of nations with similar efforts to tamp down corruption.
Chinese corruption is more of the āswap out rebar for bamboo and pocket the moneyā kind. This is something thatās necessary to cut down on. This is very similar to that of countries in Latin America as well, some of which Iāve seen first hand.
Western corruption is more āslide and envelope under the doorway with 10k cash to the person deciding the bids on this lucrative contractā kind.
It is human nature to be greedy, the goal of capitalism is to turn that desire into economic efficiencies. This of course is not always leading to positive or intended outcomes, but negative externalities are existing in every economic system.
At a fundamental level all business rely on public tax revenue given we are all using utilities, roads etc. a bar owner who fails to pay payroll taxes falls back on the owner of the bar. Government mismanagement of public tax dollars always falls back on the taxpayers. That is where there is a fundamental difference between the two.
Chicago school of economics coded
Wage theft (and by that metric, the payroll tax fraud that results) is the largest percentage of theft in the nation, and comprises the most dollar for dollar losses. So, I believe this commenters assertion may actually be pretty accurate. Again, as they mentioned, this is a function of a hyper capitalist system that incentivizes and encourages wealth accumulation over anything else, and encourages amorality in the accumulation of that wealth.
I think youāll find that eliminating parking minimums is actually giving MORE power to businesses instead of taking it away.
How does the city know how many parking spaces each business ought to have? I say if the city changes what they charge for the parking they control, then all the better.
Looks like I'll be parking in random lots as far against the wall as I can get. Fuck paying for parking, I'm already spending my money downtown.