My grandfather grew up there in the 20s/30s. He hadn’t really been through since the 80s, so when I got a chance to take him through circa 2010 or so it was wild. He thought it was great.
That's interesting. Many older residents griped about the loss of their neighborhood, warts and all. Your grandfather seemslike a cool open-minded guy.
I took a group of my seniors from a retirement home on a drive around trip downtown back in 2018 and through parts of the west side and they all were so amazed but a few of them were sad about how different things were. A lot of them were surprised by the flats too, all of them hadn’t been down town since the 70’s
It was called the Southside, not Tremont, by the people who lived there years ago. That's what my grandmother called it. She lived on Professor around 1910-1925.
I lived there in the late 80s and early 90s. I was a young teen. The first coffee shop opened, Civilization I think, and we saw the changes around that time.
my memory is that the owners (Nancy and Bob) opened a second location in River and then lost the name when they left that one, and so rebranded the original location as Civilization.
They just sold the building a few years back and don't think
they run the coffeehouse any longer.
My Dad grew up there in the 30's, 40's and 50's on Starkweather. The house is still there! But I-90 is right next to it now - practically on top of it! Obviously the freeway wasn't there when he lived there. He always called Tremont the Southside, as another commenter mentioned. I do, too. My Dad worked part time at the Westside Market when he was in High School. He graduated from West Tech High School on W. 93rd Street - now apartments. He raved about how great West Tech was until the day he died. I spent the first 5 years of my life not far from Tremont over on Archwood Avenue in the 60's.
i moved there on my
own in the late 1980s (my family had lived there for generations before heading south and west in the 1960s to Parma and Lakewood.)
still lots of soot on the old houses, pictures of Polish and Ukrainian saints in windows, super cheap (had a large upstairs 2 BR apartment for 285 a month), a bunch of bars (Edison's had opened by then and as someone else noted Heart of the Southside was there, Prosperity was still called Dempsey's, Pat's in the Flats was amazing), lots of gunfire at night, but you could see the beginning of gentrification with a few houses redone, started being called Tremont more often, Cravings opened, and the Saturday art walk beginning (locals mocked those who came to the neighborhood for that).
it was wild, mostly fun, and when i left some years later i was glad to make it out without any major damage but always missed the camaraderie and even the grit.
Well it goes back to when the land was being surveyed by Moses Cleaveland. The land was originally occupied by farmers. Abbey, Starkweather, Scranton, and west 14th used to be Jennings, which is why 176 is the Jennings freeway.
Someone wanted Cleveland university there. That’s why other streets are professor, literary, university, etc. The financier of the university died before it was built.
Lincoln park was used for the military to train for the civil war. It was called camp Cleveland. And every church built has a geographic reason. For example the Greek town used to be where modern day progressive field is. There used to be a wooden bride from downtown to Tremont, which is why the Greek church is at the corner or 14th and Fairfield.
I had always thought the fun fact was that the area was suppose to be “University Heights” and the streets (Literary, College, Professor, University) were laid out with the intention of it being the future location of Cleveland University - but their endowment failed to take off and they never actually built anything in this location. Then the idea was eventually reclaimed for John Carroll, and the Cleveland University name was chartered later as well.
I used https://tremonthistory.org/ and the Cleveland Historical app quite a bit when I moved to Tremont to learn about the neighborhood. It's pretty neat. A neighborhood of many names..University Heights, Lincoln Heights, I think Cleveland Heights, South Side, and finally Tremont. I think Case Western's website has a lot of neat info about the area too.
Since moving here, my perception of the feelings of the people who grew up here seems mixed. I have heard some people talk positively about where Tremont has landed today and others say it's been taken over by "yuppies". To be fair, this is only my perception of what I've heard from people I have met and/or chatted with in passing.
It's an interesting part of town and definitely worth learning more about.
Don’t need to hyphen the yuppy part. They are yuppies. Who cares if you offend?
Also the yuppies that live there that moved in are assholes and slightly racist. Had a guy come up to my trashcan while I was going to throw trash, didn’t acknowledge me and then told his unleashed dog to hurry up. Where I’m from, you respect people, acknowledge them or else we give them the old southern hospitality.
Personally, I hate seeing gentrification, turning what clearly was a working class neighborhood into a gentrified area for white collar young workers. The dumbest thing I think of it is that these dumb white collar yuppies are getting exposed to the same level of poison air that blue collar workers were exposed to years ago. There’s a reason poorer people lived next to plants and the more well off people moved to west side of towns. Fun video on it on YouTube about the history of it.
I was born on the other side of the trench on Sykora (the Southeast side), lol in the mid 70's my family (grandparents, great aunts and uncles, and all) thought moving west was the best option, except they chose 39th and Denison for the "upgrade" hahaha No better, no worse, because I remember going out for school in the morning and seeing all the fallout from Republic Steel's furnaces glistening on every inch of everything, just like it was before we moved.
How anyone of us over 50 made it this long, without lung cancer, I will never know.
You probably have other health issues that are related to being in the area, or it will show up in your off spring.
As someone not from Cleveland that you have yuppies wanting to live in an area that statistially is harming their bodies, and they have a running path that runs through the toxic air. I find it quite odd.
Asthma lol Had it since I was a kid. Treated at least a hundred times for pneumonia until 1979 when Metro finally got a doc on staff who knew what asthma actually was and diagnosed me, and treatment finally started working! lol
live in an area that statistially is harming their bodies, and they have a running path that runs through the toxic air
Yuppies don't think of that shit, and contractors conveniently neglect to disclose it when peddling their poorly built half million dollar homes.
I’m in a poorly built half a million dollar home, thank god I don’t pay for it.
When I first moved in, I lost it on how the baseboard were half an inch from the finished floor and they didn’t finish the front door insulation.
They are just shiny pieces of shit that people who got soft hands think are golden tickets. The property is like 5 years old needing renovations and my apartment that is “luxury” and built in the 80s is significantly better. All my neighbors except one who is a marine got soft hands.
Also what is it with all these hippie yuppy ayurvedic and crystal stuff going in this neighborhood? I am genuinely confused as they are just stealing specific things from eastern medicine that the average person back from the motherland doesn’t practice.
I lived on W18th and Auburn as a kid in the 60's. I moved back to the neighborhood, to W12th and Castle in 1991. It looked like someone had thrown glitter all over everything and when it snowed it was all shiny in the streetlights. I'm still lucky, no lung cancer yet.
As the Ellis Island generation of Tremont's Poles, Ukrainians and Greeks are vanishing (oh, who are we kidding, they HAVE vanished) it has become much more of a generic urban neighborhood with gentrification and watering holes and places to eat. In the 90s is when all this really took off ( Miracles restaurant, anyone?), for the same reasons it's taking off today but also combined with the death of the Ellis Island crowd. Once the Ukrainian butchers and Polish grocers and Greek coffeehouse owners passed on, the real estate options were wide open. The remnants are everywhere...you just have to look for it .
I remember going to the old Heart of the Southside, it was where Fat Cats is now. That was back in the 90s. It was about the only thing in the area at that time. It seemed like an outpost.
People don’t seem to know that Tremont pointe apartments, that replaced the original projects, filled back up with the same residents that used to live there. It’s a lot of section 8 units. That’s why the grounds have a lot of townhomes and playgrounds
Back in the 90's and early 2000's it was pretty rough. I had a friend that lived on West 5th and his neighbor was a coke dealer. I remember it being a place you left at night. I think it started to get gentrified by the late 2000's by white college grads that couldn't afford rent in Lakewood Cleveland heights.
I once lived next to an old timer in Tremont and he told me that the many of the one way streets used to head into the valley and loop back up. When 490 was built they had to tear all that up, and he claimed they covered up a natural spring as well.
in my drinking days, you’d get your ass kicked if you stumbled into a Tremont dive bar and ordered the wrong Irish whiskey. Jameson was the Catholic one and Ole Bushmills was the Protestant’s tripple of choice.
My father grew up there in and moved back 15 years ago and my parents both love it. The 50s and 60s, when he lived there it was poor but relatively safe. The 70s and 80s, after he and his family left, it had much higher crime, and was dangerous and dirty. The biggest change was probably when Michael Symon opened Lola in 1997. Before that, it was already considered a hip and trendy place popular with artists, but that was because it was so cheap. After Lola opened, other nicer restaurants moved in, relatively wealthier people started moving in, which led to expensive apartments and houses being built.
I am well aware that when Tremont Pointe Apartments were built in their place they were only partnered with CMHA, and half of the 189 units were reserved for low income to help with displacement.
50% of the units were for people who are not on CMHA, but they won't say what the actual percentage is now.
Scranton Castle has roughly 200 units and is elderly and on the very edge, and could be Clark -Fulton as much as it is Tremont. Manhattan Tower is only 29 units, combined they are nothing compared to 580+ projects that were demolished!
OOOOOO yuppies don't like facts huh? lol Take it from someone who actually grew up in Cleveland's inner city. It was a shit show full of arson, vandalism, hookers, tolleo and crack heads in the 80's and 90's. I worked at Lincoln pool all through high school, and saw the shit first hand on a daily bases, all summer long, for years!
Early 2000's they got rid of the projects and built the townhouses that started the regentrification which drove up property values so high, families who owned homes there for generations were forced to sell if they weren't foreclosed on first.
Flashforward to now and the Southside (Tremont) has a violent crime rate that is almost 200% higher than the national average, and property crime is over 50% higher!
The chances of someone being a victim of crime in Tremont is 1 in 23! lol Not too many other neighborhoods, can make that claim! Your lovely $400k homes are sitting right in the middle of a neighborhood that is more dangerous than 85–90% of all U.S. neighborhoods!
I will take all of the downvotes, all day everyday, from transplants who vote their feelings vs. facts!
You’re not wrong. It blows my mind the crime rate, when you’re paying big city prices for apartments, and houses are selling for around a million dollars. I only moved to the area, because I wanted high way access and to attempt to live someplace, somewhat trendy, and walkable. I assumed for what rent costs, it’d be somewhat safe.
Sorry, I hope nothing bad, has or ever will, happen to you.
Don't get me wrong, it looks a fuck ton better than it has as long as I have been alive, but polishing a turd just leaves you with a shiny shithole. lol
Yeah, it used to be a run down hood with a couple bars for the blue collar lower middle class and drug dealers. Now it's been gentrified into a live, work, play with a manufactured hip edgy vibe where people pretend property crime isn't an issue.
Do you still live there? If not, what drives this passion of yours? I find it a little odd that you feel so compelled to spread your truth at such evangelical level. You remind me of a preacher on a college campus yelling at the freshman they will burn in hell. Tremont sounds like your hell. Ha
I just don’t get it. We all know Tremont has crime. But we also all know that people still love living there and going there. I live in Detroit-Shoreway. It has its own issues-like Ohio City-but I love it. I don’t think people are blind to these “facts” so why is there always a group of people, typically those that don’t live in one of these neighborhoods, feeling so compelled to essentially tell people they are idiots for wanting to be in the area? If you feel unsafe or don’t like the vibe then don’t go. If you moved out over it, no one is forcing you to move back.
I think it's because, other people are allowed to have opinions you don't agree with?
For example, I grew up in Lakewood and in the 90's you didn't go east of 117th or south of 90 because there was no reason and it was an absolute shit hole.
Tremont and Ohio City are a perfect example of capitalism gentrifying an area to a point of feeling manufactured and fake. They tore down a lot of historical housing and places to build townhouses, the limelight, and that weird neighborhood south of Marquardt that feels like a 55+ retirement community for 20 somethings.
I love the Rowley Inn and have been back since. I was genuinely confused by their electric infrastructure and stand by my original posted experience. Maybe be I should delete or hide all my posts so they “can’t be used against me” years later.
I’ll stop now and enjoy Christmas Eve morning with my family and end trying to have a civil conversation with a bunch of miserable twits on the internet. I should have known better. It gets me every time.
My grandfather grew up there in the 20s/30s. He hadn’t really been through since the 80s, so when I got a chance to take him through circa 2010 or so it was wild. He thought it was great.
That's interesting. Many older residents griped about the loss of their neighborhood, warts and all. Your grandfather seemslike a cool open-minded guy.
I took a group of my seniors from a retirement home on a drive around trip downtown back in 2018 and through parts of the west side and they all were so amazed but a few of them were sad about how different things were. A lot of them were surprised by the flats too, all of them hadn’t been down town since the 70’s
It was called the Southside, not Tremont, by the people who lived there years ago. That's what my grandmother called it. She lived on Professor around 1910-1925.
Southside is a great restaurant/ brunch spot in town.
I lived there in the late 80s and early 90s. I was a young teen. The first coffee shop opened, Civilization I think, and we saw the changes around that time.
yes when it was called Cravings.
Yes! I looked it up to make sure and was confused by the name change, I thought I remembered wrong.
I haven't been to the old neighborhood in awhile, it seems.
my memory is that the owners (Nancy and Bob) opened a second location in River and then lost the name when they left that one, and so rebranded the original location as Civilization.
They just sold the building a few years back and don't think they run the coffeehouse any longer.
Very cool. I always see it but need to go try it! Thanks for sharing :-)
My Dad grew up there in the 30's, 40's and 50's on Starkweather. The house is still there! But I-90 is right next to it now - practically on top of it! Obviously the freeway wasn't there when he lived there. He always called Tremont the Southside, as another commenter mentioned. I do, too. My Dad worked part time at the Westside Market when he was in High School. He graduated from West Tech High School on W. 93rd Street - now apartments. He raved about how great West Tech was until the day he died. I spent the first 5 years of my life not far from Tremont over on Archwood Avenue in the 60's.
i moved there on my own in the late 1980s (my family had lived there for generations before heading south and west in the 1960s to Parma and Lakewood.) still lots of soot on the old houses, pictures of Polish and Ukrainian saints in windows, super cheap (had a large upstairs 2 BR apartment for 285 a month), a bunch of bars (Edison's had opened by then and as someone else noted Heart of the Southside was there, Prosperity was still called Dempsey's, Pat's in the Flats was amazing), lots of gunfire at night, but you could see the beginning of gentrification with a few houses redone, started being called Tremont more often, Cravings opened, and the Saturday art walk beginning (locals mocked those who came to the neighborhood for that). it was wild, mostly fun, and when i left some years later i was glad to make it out without any major damage but always missed the camaraderie and even the grit.
Well it goes back to when the land was being surveyed by Moses Cleaveland. The land was originally occupied by farmers. Abbey, Starkweather, Scranton, and west 14th used to be Jennings, which is why 176 is the Jennings freeway.
Someone wanted Cleveland university there. That’s why other streets are professor, literary, university, etc. The financier of the university died before it was built.
Lincoln park was used for the military to train for the civil war. It was called camp Cleveland. And every church built has a geographic reason. For example the Greek town used to be where modern day progressive field is. There used to be a wooden bride from downtown to Tremont, which is why the Greek church is at the corner or 14th and Fairfield.
Tremont is great and progress is a good thing. Used to have a college there, then it was the working class southside, now it’s changing again.
I had always thought the fun fact was that the area was suppose to be “University Heights” and the streets (Literary, College, Professor, University) were laid out with the intention of it being the future location of Cleveland University - but their endowment failed to take off and they never actually built anything in this location. Then the idea was eventually reclaimed for John Carroll, and the Cleveland University name was chartered later as well.
The only thing that I don’t like about Tremont is that LOOP closed
I used https://tremonthistory.org/ and the Cleveland Historical app quite a bit when I moved to Tremont to learn about the neighborhood. It's pretty neat. A neighborhood of many names..University Heights, Lincoln Heights, I think Cleveland Heights, South Side, and finally Tremont. I think Case Western's website has a lot of neat info about the area too.
Since moving here, my perception of the feelings of the people who grew up here seems mixed. I have heard some people talk positively about where Tremont has landed today and others say it's been taken over by "yuppies". To be fair, this is only my perception of what I've heard from people I have met and/or chatted with in passing.
It's an interesting part of town and definitely worth learning more about.
Don’t need to hyphen the yuppy part. They are yuppies. Who cares if you offend?
Also the yuppies that live there that moved in are assholes and slightly racist. Had a guy come up to my trashcan while I was going to throw trash, didn’t acknowledge me and then told his unleashed dog to hurry up. Where I’m from, you respect people, acknowledge them or else we give them the old southern hospitality.
Personally, I hate seeing gentrification, turning what clearly was a working class neighborhood into a gentrified area for white collar young workers. The dumbest thing I think of it is that these dumb white collar yuppies are getting exposed to the same level of poison air that blue collar workers were exposed to years ago. There’s a reason poorer people lived next to plants and the more well off people moved to west side of towns. Fun video on it on YouTube about the history of it.
This! 100%
I was born on the other side of the trench on Sykora (the Southeast side), lol in the mid 70's my family (grandparents, great aunts and uncles, and all) thought moving west was the best option, except they chose 39th and Denison for the "upgrade" hahaha No better, no worse, because I remember going out for school in the morning and seeing all the fallout from Republic Steel's furnaces glistening on every inch of everything, just like it was before we moved.
How anyone of us over 50 made it this long, without lung cancer, I will never know.
You probably have other health issues that are related to being in the area, or it will show up in your off spring.
As someone not from Cleveland that you have yuppies wanting to live in an area that statistially is harming their bodies, and they have a running path that runs through the toxic air. I find it quite odd.
Asthma lol Had it since I was a kid. Treated at least a hundred times for pneumonia until 1979 when Metro finally got a doc on staff who knew what asthma actually was and diagnosed me, and treatment finally started working! lol
Yuppies don't think of that shit, and contractors conveniently neglect to disclose it when peddling their poorly built half million dollar homes.
I’m in a poorly built half a million dollar home, thank god I don’t pay for it.
When I first moved in, I lost it on how the baseboard were half an inch from the finished floor and they didn’t finish the front door insulation.
They are just shiny pieces of shit that people who got soft hands think are golden tickets. The property is like 5 years old needing renovations and my apartment that is “luxury” and built in the 80s is significantly better. All my neighbors except one who is a marine got soft hands.
Also what is it with all these hippie yuppy ayurvedic and crystal stuff going in this neighborhood? I am genuinely confused as they are just stealing specific things from eastern medicine that the average person back from the motherland doesn’t practice.
lol facts
I lived on W18th and Auburn as a kid in the 60's. I moved back to the neighborhood, to W12th and Castle in 1991. It looked like someone had thrown glitter all over everything and when it snowed it was all shiny in the streetlights. I'm still lucky, no lung cancer yet.
yes, that is exactly what I was talking about. It was like that every day for decades.
As the Ellis Island generation of Tremont's Poles, Ukrainians and Greeks are vanishing (oh, who are we kidding, they HAVE vanished) it has become much more of a generic urban neighborhood with gentrification and watering holes and places to eat. In the 90s is when all this really took off ( Miracles restaurant, anyone?), for the same reasons it's taking off today but also combined with the death of the Ellis Island crowd. Once the Ukrainian butchers and Polish grocers and Greek coffeehouse owners passed on, the real estate options were wide open. The remnants are everywhere...you just have to look for it .
One of the better ways to put it
I remember going to the old Heart of the Southside, it was where Fat Cats is now. That was back in the 90s. It was about the only thing in the area at that time. It seemed like an outpost.
Projects are still there
Edit…
People don’t seem to know that Tremont pointe apartments, that replaced the original projects, filled back up with the same residents that used to live there. It’s a lot of section 8 units. That’s why the grounds have a lot of townhomes and playgrounds
Back in the 90's and early 2000's it was pretty rough. I had a friend that lived on West 5th and his neighbor was a coke dealer. I remember it being a place you left at night. I think it started to get gentrified by the late 2000's by white college grads that couldn't afford rent in Lakewood Cleveland heights.
I once lived next to an old timer in Tremont and he told me that the many of the one way streets used to head into the valley and loop back up. When 490 was built they had to tear all that up, and he claimed they covered up a natural spring as well.
in my drinking days, you’d get your ass kicked if you stumbled into a Tremont dive bar and ordered the wrong Irish whiskey. Jameson was the Catholic one and Ole Bushmills was the Protestant’s tripple of choice.
My father grew up there in and moved back 15 years ago and my parents both love it. The 50s and 60s, when he lived there it was poor but relatively safe. The 70s and 80s, after he and his family left, it had much higher crime, and was dangerous and dirty. The biggest change was probably when Michael Symon opened Lola in 1997. Before that, it was already considered a hip and trendy place popular with artists, but that was because it was so cheap. After Lola opened, other nicer restaurants moved in, relatively wealthier people started moving in, which led to expensive apartments and houses being built.
It was horrible until they demolished the projects, now it's just horrible in different ways.
Are you aware that the “projects” are still located in Tremont?
I am well aware that when Tremont Pointe Apartments were built in their place they were only partnered with CMHA, and half of the 189 units were reserved for low income to help with displacement.
50% of the units were for people who are not on CMHA, but they won't say what the actual percentage is now.
Scranton Castle has roughly 200 units and is elderly and on the very edge, and could be Clark -Fulton as much as it is Tremont. Manhattan Tower is only 29 units, combined they are nothing compared to 580+ projects that were demolished!
Are you aware of that?
OOOOOO yuppies don't like facts huh? lol Take it from someone who actually grew up in Cleveland's inner city. It was a shit show full of arson, vandalism, hookers, tolleo and crack heads in the 80's and 90's. I worked at Lincoln pool all through high school, and saw the shit first hand on a daily bases, all summer long, for years!
Early 2000's they got rid of the projects and built the townhouses that started the regentrification which drove up property values so high, families who owned homes there for generations were forced to sell if they weren't foreclosed on first.
Flashforward to now and the Southside (Tremont) has a violent crime rate that is almost 200% higher than the national average, and property crime is over 50% higher!
The chances of someone being a victim of crime in Tremont is 1 in 23! lol Not too many other neighborhoods, can make that claim! Your lovely $400k homes are sitting right in the middle of a neighborhood that is more dangerous than 85–90% of all U.S. neighborhoods!
I will take all of the downvotes, all day everyday, from transplants who vote their feelings vs. facts!
I’m not a transplant, I just think you’re fearmongering.
lol I appreciate your comment, but you can Google and you will see that everything I stated is officially recorded statistics.
I don't have to fearmonger.
You should get better at it so that more people are scared to come here. Condos still $700,000.
And has nothing to do with factual crime statistics.
You’re not wrong. It blows my mind the crime rate, when you’re paying big city prices for apartments, and houses are selling for around a million dollars. I only moved to the area, because I wanted high way access and to attempt to live someplace, somewhat trendy, and walkable. I assumed for what rent costs, it’d be somewhat safe.
Sorry, I hope nothing bad, has or ever will, happen to you.
Don't get me wrong, it looks a fuck ton better than it has as long as I have been alive, but polishing a turd just leaves you with a shiny shithole. lol
You're not wrong.
lol Oh I know, but thank you for being someone who actually knows.
Yeah, it used to be a run down hood with a couple bars for the blue collar lower middle class and drug dealers. Now it's been gentrified into a live, work, play with a manufactured hip edgy vibe where people pretend property crime isn't an issue.
Meanwhile, statically it is one of the worst neighborhoods in America for crime. Another prime example of gentrification gone horribly wrong.
Do you still live there? If not, what drives this passion of yours? I find it a little odd that you feel so compelled to spread your truth at such evangelical level. You remind me of a preacher on a college campus yelling at the freshman they will burn in hell. Tremont sounds like your hell. Ha
I think you're trying too hard with this analogy.
I just don’t get it. We all know Tremont has crime. But we also all know that people still love living there and going there. I live in Detroit-Shoreway. It has its own issues-like Ohio City-but I love it. I don’t think people are blind to these “facts” so why is there always a group of people, typically those that don’t live in one of these neighborhoods, feeling so compelled to essentially tell people they are idiots for wanting to be in the area? If you feel unsafe or don’t like the vibe then don’t go. If you moved out over it, no one is forcing you to move back.
I think it's because, other people are allowed to have opinions you don't agree with?
For example, I grew up in Lakewood and in the 90's you didn't go east of 117th or south of 90 because there was no reason and it was an absolute shit hole.
Tremont and Ohio City are a perfect example of capitalism gentrifying an area to a point of feeling manufactured and fake. They tore down a lot of historical housing and places to build townhouses, the limelight, and that weird neighborhood south of Marquardt that feels like a 55+ retirement community for 20 somethings.
But that’s the point. We can have different opinions and try to voice them in a manner in which we can learn from each other.
Spoken like a true transplant!
Go back to this post and whine some more about the same area that you are now trying to defend with little (or more likely NO) knowledge of!
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cleveland/comments/1d63rt2/rowley_inn/
Same douche bag, different post! GTFOH with your bullshit.
I love the Rowley Inn and have been back since. I was genuinely confused by their electric infrastructure and stand by my original posted experience. Maybe be I should delete or hide all my posts so they “can’t be used against me” years later.
I’ll stop now and enjoy Christmas Eve morning with my family and end trying to have a civil conversation with a bunch of miserable twits on the internet. I should have known better. It gets me every time.