I see conservatives actively fighting to dismantle affordable healthcare options in this country.
They advocate for private only healthcare
Yale states that 51k more people a year will die or face bankruptcy as they can't afford healthcare
The Republican party often claims to be the party of Christianity, yet these actions leave the lower class behind
What's the Christian perspective on healthcare?
As someone who’s been reading a lot of scripture lately, here’s what I think is a biblical perspective on this topic. Christians are called to care for the sick, defend the poor, and bear one another’s burdens (check out Matthew 25:35–40, Proverbs 31:8–9, Galatians 6:2). Scripture does not mandate a specific political system, but it consistently teaches that a society is judged by how it treats its most vulnerable. So the Christian perspective is not “private versus public healthcare,” but whether our policies, whatever form they take, protect human dignity and ensure the needy are not abandoned. Obviously different Christians may disagree on the best model, but biblically, indifference toward people who cannot afford care is NOT an option. Helping the sick is a moral responsibility, not a partisan one.
This 5 min video has changed my perspective on living generously and I’m trying hard to shift my perspective to be more like the one this vid teaches: https://youtu.be/62CliEkRCso?si=wINPeCkFZmo9bS2-
This x 2
This is spot on - the "how" might be debatable but the "whether we should help" really isn't if you're following what Jesus actually taught
The video link looks solid too, thanks for sharing
Excellent take. I love that it’s completely devoid of right v. left. It’s entirely principle-based. We can quibble about methods, but doing nothing is not biblical. And unfortunately, we have a party that is intent on doing just that.
Whether or not you agree with the way Democrats are doing healthcare, they’re at least doing something.
Upvote for Bible Project. Their podcast was my gateway drug into biblical theology
I don’t think that there would be any Christian beliefs that would be against affordable healthcare especially for those who can’t afford private healthcare costs. I would think anyone who is opposed to it would be more for political reasons than religious beliefs. I would imagine most of the people that are opposed to it would be MAGA cult members.
Republicans have actively fought against affordable healthcare for decades, long before MAGA existed. And the majority of Christians have supported that party all that time. So, clearly there are plenty of Christian that do not think affordable healthcare is important.
And having a system that profits billions off of people's illnesses is about the most immoral thing there is...
This!
Amen my friend. I truly thank Jesus for people like you
The worst take I've seen coming from Christians is "access to food/healthcare/shelter is helping others, helping others is charity and charity should be voluntary".
They believe being gay is a sin and one that should have legal consequences (such as not being able to marry), but greed is a sin that should have no repercussions even though it hurts everyone.
I've spent most of my life in the military, so I've lived with "socialized medicine." I would like to see a system where everyone is covered. It's the Christian thing to do, in my opinion, but America is getting less and less Christian.
It's what happens when people worship the cross and not the man nailed to it. Christianity is becoming more and more of a cultural prop here than an actual religion. And it is especially visible in the political arena.
I think most Christians steer clear of politics, and our opinions of healthcare don't matter much as government makes the decisions.
I'm not certain about the first part, though my experience is likely skewed as a Southerner lol.
The second part is more true than I care for, and one of the reasons I'm planning on leaving. That and half the government is trying to use me as a scapegoat and paint me as an existential threat....and I know enough history to know I don't want to be around if they decide to push that narrative further.
Because of my military service plus Medicare, I'm covered with regard to healthcare. I wish everyone was. I've lived in the north and south, and I think the south may be more vocal politically, in general. I've been stationed overseas and while I'm no expert, do your homework and find a country that will welcome you and make healthcare more accessible.
Or move to Massachusetts. Mass Health does cover everyone. If you can stand our winters and high cost of living, you should do OK.
America is the only developed nation without some sort of universal healthcare. It is insane that people suffer and die because they can't afford medicine or a doctor's visit.
This is what shows me it isn’t about helping but about greed. When you are the odd man out and doing a worse job, that is not good.
American culture has turned greed into a virtue and fetish, and distracts from this by ranting endlessly about lust. But if there is one country in the world who epitomizes greed, it's the USA.
I was in the ER yesterday morning because I was hit hard with flu, and even AFTER my insurance, I owe $350. I’m in college with a dual degree program that’s too demanding to work a job. I couldn’t pay that if my parents weren’t willing to help.
I hope you feel better soon. It is insane that you owe this money and have insurance!
When I was younger, I travelled all over the world. I hurt my back rather badly in Australia and needed hospital care for a couple of days. The bill? Zero dollars.
In Guatemala, I developed a severe ear infection and ruptured my ear drum. I went to an emergency clinic where a doctor examined me and prescribed me antibiotics. The cost? $8.
I hear people say if we made it that affordable “we wouldn’t have good doctors anymore” but like… I’m sure the healthcare you received in those countries at such low (or even without) cost was perfectly good. I don’t believe at all that our doctors here are ALL just in it for the money. I mean you couldn’t pay me enough to be a doctor because of how often I’d be dealing with people when they’re sick (like, they come to me BECAUSE THEY’RE SICK), but I’m gonna be a teacher despite how little it pays. And doctors historically weren’t paid like this and we still had them.
I’m not arguing they don’t deserve to be well paid, of course. I just find it crazy that protecting their pay over ensuring people have access to healthcare.
You're right. The care I received was excellent. There is a way to provide universal health care and pay medical professionals for their expertise.
I am fighting insurance right now for a heart drug (calcium channel blocker) because I've had a life long electrical problem with my heart that has become a bit more problematic. Insurance is refusing and says I have to try a beta blocker first. Only problem is that I will have an anaphylactic reaction to a beta blocker - documented in my medical records.
Can’t make profit off of something that everyone gets free access to.
America the Christian Nation, serving its true God, Mammon.
My grandfather had NHS healthcare in England. He still died screaming because he didn’t see a cancer specialist fast enough. Canada has universal healthcare and they are offering MAID to people. Universal healthcare isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
Nothing wrong with MAID. My mother was able to participate in the program and died at home, on a day of her choosing, surrounded by people who loved her.
Universal health care isn't perfect but it's fucking better than the monstrosity that is American health care.
What’s wrong with it is when people are being offered MAID or considering MAID because of failures of the Canadian system.
As I said, universal health care isn't perfect. But I never had to worry if my aging parents had to choose between food or going to the doctor. When my dad needed heart surgery, he got it and there was no bill. When my mom needed chemo and radiation, she received it without a bill.
American healthcare is a fucking disaster.
I'm an American, never had a hard time accessing healthcare. My family in a place with Universal Healthcare has though, so, you realize my concerns.
Yay for you. There are 25 million people without health insurance in America.
Medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the U.S.
I never worry about my family in countries with universal healthcare.
Yay for me is a pretty scum bag take when I try to be vulnerable about my family suffering.
It's a testament to how Jesus's message and the Bible can be twisted to fit any agenda. Some will argue that it isn't Christian and that the Church should handle charity. I, like many others, argue that it's logistics. The government can help far more people than private charity ever can. It's like at food banks. Donating unwanted food or even buying food directly and giving it is a wonderful act, but giving money to the food bank is actually far more successful at feeding people. Money can buy food in bulk that will always trump general donations of food. I know some don't want to hear that, but it's reality.
The same is true for governments. They have the means to help far more than private charities ever can, so I'd argue that affordable healthcare is a Christian ideal. When I ask WWJD?, he would state to do what helps the most people. Government run health care does just that. You don't have to trust me. A simple Google search will confirm this. To argue against affordable health care is standing against more people having it which isn't a Christian ideal.
Soften your hearts.
This is a great statement. Jesus talked about everyone as a group and that no one should be left out. The rich can help the poor and every neighbor can help each other.
Universal healthcare is affordable but we have to believe we are helping each other. The people I see who hate universal healthcare are more concerned about themselves than about the group.
It’s a mind set of ‘me’ vs ‘us’
Those idiots claiming that the government should not help people refuse to admit that the government IS the people, our taxes fund it so it is the community helping people. It's just leveraging the government's logistical capabilities to facilitate it.
I have come to the realization that those people aren't arguing in good faith, they simply see poverty as a moral failure and thus those people do not deserve help. It's simply not good optics to admit that outside of their inner circles.
There is rarely a "the" perspective. Healthcare has changed a lot since Scripture was written.
Still, the Parable of the Good Samaritan is about a man giving his own good, hard-earned money for the treatment of a total stranger, which is not a concept you'd surmise from listening to the political chatter of so many Christians.
Yeah anytime I hear a Christian say something like “well if you force someone to give someone healthcare for free that’s basically slavery” I’m like first off that wouldn’t be how it works, but if you go off of scripture, as a Christian, its the Jesus-like thing to do to pay for another’s care and/or heal them as well as you are able.
I'm told that Biblical slavery was fine, actually, because it was the best option available to God at the time. Sounds like a win to me!
You’re so right! Don’t worry they’ll also say that that’s out of context or it wasn’t actually chattel slavery, despite that for non-Jew slaves it absolutely was.
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Private help and government help aren't antonyms. None of Jesus' initial audience could vote for a more Christ-honoring Roman imperial government. We, on the other hand, can vote.
When Israel was independent, their Law was to use their taxes partially for the poor. Deuteronomy 14
and Deut 26
I am with you, a Christian led government would be cool.
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (n. 2288):
We believe that human life is sacred, and must be respected from conception to natural death. And it must be dignified life.
It shouldn't be run like a business and we can't deny people emergent/life-saving care under any circumstances.
The story of the good Samaritan is the Christian perspective I would use. Even people who do not practice religion are considered righteous when they use their finances to ensure healthcare for those who need it.
Healthcare should be a public service due to it being a need, not a commodity.
The Bible says nothing directly about it, but it is implied in the morals consistently shown and exhibited by Christ.
Republicans only pretend to be Christians, for the votes. Sadly, it works.
It should be universal. Absolutely no contest.
I've spent most of my life in the military, so I've lived with "socialized medicine." I would like to see a system where everyone is covered. It's the Christian thing to do, in my opinion, but America is getting less and less Christian, so I can't see this coming anytime soon.
Liberal Christians want everyone to have health care.
Conservative Christians have been fighting every expansion of health care coverage for decades.
So, it kind of depends on which flavor Christian you are.
Please stop conflating cultural conservatives with Christian. There is less overlap than assumed. Oh. The Christian take on healthcare? Yes, because people need it.
Perhaps we should call such conservatives "Crossites", since they clearly worship the cross and not the man nailed to it.
“Please stop associating the loudest, most powerful, most active, and most visible Christians with Christianity!”
No, thanks, I don’t think I’ll take your advice.
I was afraid of that. (Honestly just letting my anger at those jerks out for a moment.) If I could afford it I'd sue them for fraud. Wouldn't expect to win but perhaps a bit of shame would help.
The Christian prospective on healthcare is that the doctors and hospitals not charge but what they need and and insurance cover all that’s necessary for the person rather than be greedy for gain
Yeah. That only works if the health care isn't privatized.
Hence: government-run health care.
The Christian perspective is that in a Christian world we would be of assistance and care to each other. But we don’t live in a Christian society. We live in a capitalist society that has Christian’s.
Christianity in politics is about how I should control your behavior. It’s not about you controlling mine.
The system is broken. I don't see nothing affordable with the present Health care system.
The Sheep's and the Goats story from Jesus makes it very clear.
I remember Jesus going out of his way to heal people and I don’t remember him asking for anything in return.
It is a "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" mentality . If you are sick, tough. That is really the attitude I see in a lot of American conservatives.
Republicans claim lots of things that aren't true.
Christianity is not a political party.
So, the answer to your question: it varies.
Edit: Already, in the comments, you see the varying degree of perspectives
in my country we do everything by province, and its paid for by our tax dollars
everyone who is a citizen of the province can get free health care (well its by taxpayers with Fed Government chipping in a few small pennies)
I think that this way everyone pays their fair share based on the income tax they generate for the province but i dont think thats the christian perspective its just a wordly thing.
i dont think healthcare system is christian at all and in fact they openly rebuke christian beliefs and values a hokum
It’s important. The Catholic Church has almost 6,000 hospitals and even more clinics around the world.
Government historically didn’t provide healthcare, so churches stepped in all the way back to the Hospitaller Kights during the Crusades. More recently in history churches funded hospitals that have morphed into today. Some still keep the names and missions like Methodist, St Judes, and Presbyterian hospitals. But, in modern times governments have stepped in. But, i think the root of your question isn’t religious, but political and Republicans think private sector is better at solving problems and Democrats typically believe government is. Both typically fumble it and we end up with what we have.
If I had my way there might be state chartered non-profits run by nurses that delivered health care services directly to the public.... Insurance might be less of an issue if people could actually afford to pay for it 💞
Some days it feels like modern conservative “Christian” political movement’s goal is to repeal the Sermon on the Mount.
The good news is that most American Christians, those who don’t serve two masters, continue to support the multitudes of Methodist, Baptist, Catholic, and Presbyterian hospitals around the country.
But as always you can’t lump “Christians” in a single category. Christian Scientists are very different from 7th Day Adventists, who are very different from Catholics, who are very different from Presbyterians, who are etc.
I think Christians should be at the forefront of findings ways to provide more and better actual care for other people’s health, but the reality is the current morass that is healthcare in the US is a tangled, fragile, deck of cards wherein the primary driving factors are the huge fortunes of healthcare companies, pharmaceutical companies, unaffordable medical educations and a complex of legal regulations and bizarre political divides that make the simplest healthcare decisions fraught with risks.
Couple that with a populace who regularly kill themselves slowly and quickly with unhealthy lifestyles, guns, cars and carelessness, and having a straight forward perspective on ‘healthcare’ is nearly impossible from any perspective.
At some point, Christian’s will need to snap out of what they are doing. They might end up REALLY surprised who goes where on judgement day.
Healthcare used to be affordable. In 1995-2003, the government created HIPAA, which drastically increased costs. Everyone who had any association with healthcare now had to be HIPAA compliant. Every employee needed yearly HIPAA training and testing. Any HIPAA violation was enormous and could bankrupt the company. The risk made it necessary to increase costs. The purpose of HIPAA was for "patient privacy" which really meant we could no longer gather data and determine how safe medications are in a real world scenario. Healthcare also became way less affordable when the Affordable Healthcare Act passed. There is no Christian perspective on healthcare because this isn't a moral issue. Everyone is in favor of healthcare, it's just different perspectives as to which policies work best.
The ACA did not increase health care prices.
https://econofact.org/factbrief/fact-check-have-healthcare-costs-risen-faster-since-the-affordable-care-act-was-passed
However, it did not decrease prices like it could because conservatives killed the public option.
From what I recall a HIPAA violation would only be a fine of 15 grand. That won't bankrupt most hospitals or even clinics.
If there's a data breech, the violations are charged per patient. The average is $400 per patient. We're usually talking about tens of thousands of patients. This also applies to everyone the hospitals and clinics work with. For instance, they typically hire another company to print bills or manage patient communications. That company also takes on this risk which means most companies won't work with healthcare companies and the ones that do will only do it an a higher price. And the "upside" to all of this is that we have less data on drug safety.
Well, shouldn't the hospitals be more responsible to not have data breeches? What about personal responsibility? Christians are always pushing the idea of personal responsibility. This should apply to businesses, not just individuals.
I think the Christian perspective on healthcare is that people having it is good
How exactly healthcare should be set up so that people have it is an empirical question. I think the data supports, at the very least, a public option. Also I think people should do med school right out of high school and not do college.
Survival of the fittest.
The conservatives aren’t doing a very good job of following what they are commanded to do. I wouldn’t recommend looking to them to see what the Christian position is.
“Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s”
Money is created and backed by the government, you pay taxes to the government, and what the government does with the government’s money, is up to the government. Aside from participating in elections, what the government does is largely out of our hands. Here in the US, an individual only gets to elect 1 rep (out of 435), 1 Senator (out of 100), 1 president.
How much should the US spend on healthcare or how should it structure its budget? How much should we tax? Is private or public funded healthcare better? Who knows, Jesus didn’t concern himself with Caesar’s finances or government structure.
IMO, the best way to go about life is worry about what you, your church, and your community can do. If people in your community are struggling, your church community needs to do its best to help however they can, regardless of how much the government spends.
People are going to vote however they’re going to vote. When Dems attack healthcare hypocrisy, Repubs attack on abortion. The truth is that neither party really aligns with Christian teachings and if you’re going to shame one, you should probably be shaming both.
As a Christian, I cannot be indifferent to those in need. If I value God's love for me, how could I not desire to have amd share the same love for my fellow man. The reason most people on the right, especially Christians on the right want less government is because of the inherent violence and corruption. Government only has power because if the monopoly on the use of force, and there will always be people seeking that power for personal power and not the best interests of society.
Usong an example from Nick Freitas, two people see a need in their community and have different solutions. One says, "I have a solution. Would those who agree with my solution please help with time or money?" The second person says, "I have a solution and will pass a law to enact it."
If the first person's solution is good, then it gets supported and succeeds and when there is no more need it can end or be redirected to a different need. People can withdraw support whenever they want or need. If it is a bad solution, then people will see this and not support it.
Now, the second person's law gets passed. It might be a good end, but the wrong means, there might be a better solution, or the needs of the community have shifted. Either way, tax payers are forced to pay for a suboptimal or bad program. The nature of the law and program means it can't be defunded or restructured without political action that takes more time than a private organization and wastes more money. Maybe the need for the program has ended, but people don't want to lose jobs, campaign contributions from those jobs, or look bad to voters, so they keep the program unnecessarily. Now, we have more tax waste and government bloat. Pres. Reagan said, "Nothing lasts longer than a temporary government program."
If I try and withhold any taxes in protest of needless or bad programs, I am threatened with fines and jail. If I resist those, I am threatened with violence.
Minimizing government's powers and taxation makes private citizens more financially and legally free to help our communities as we see fit at the local level. Engaging with those in need makes for a more lasting improvement and community connection. And, it is easier to identify those who want to leach support, not change their habits, and prevent them from easily continuing in their addictions to bad behaviors. Part of being a Christian is to be a good steward of God's blessings. We should be generous with those who appreciate it and will make good use of it. Those who turn their backs on society should not be indulged.
Jesus healed, fed, and educated. I'm happy paying into God's work.
Healthcare is a human right, and those opposed to it have lost their souls.
The Christian perspective is always to provide for those in need. Exactly *how* is never laid out.
As a Christian, you are free to believe it is better to provide for the poor via the government, the church, or other private charity. The Bible is not an economic treatise.
Something to note is that Jesus stressed *generosity*, so feeding the poor through the *nonconsensual* redistribution of wealth would not have the Christian Virtue that Jesus was concerned with.
John Locke, the philosophical father of American political theory, was a devout Christian who believed that charity was the mission of the *church*, not the government. So as an American, I default to him, but you're not a bad Christian if you disagree.
We should have universal healthcare.
The ACA did not make healthcare "affordable." In fact, healthcare costs skyrocketed after it was implemented. It was a crappy law and it needs to be repealed & replaced.
Also, health insurance is not health care.
It is so weird to lie about something that can be easily fact checked.
But I do agree with you, health insurance is not healthcare. We should have nationalized healthcare like every other developed country in the world!
I agree. Single payer option for all!
It’s true, everything the Heritage Foundation spits out is toxic and cancerous, Obamacare included.
It’s still evil to take that away with nothing to replace that, but fascists gonna do fascism.
The main problem is that health care and medicine is too expensive. Big pharma is a tyrant and discourages natural medicine. Their natural cures to many diseases. Its a crime to need to pay your life savings to stay alive
50,000 seems like an incredibly low number
50k additional people a year dying from preventable causes is a low number to you?
For what it probably is, yeah absolutely
Incredibly low* but yeah
Wow, less than 3000 died during 9/11. Less than 2000 died at Pearl Harbor.
50k additional deaths a year is devastating to our country, especially when those deaths could be prevented.
The Bible tells us every individual life is precious.
Over 7000 have died in the US today alone
I didn’t say those people didn’t matter or we shouldn’t care. I just thought the 50,000 number would be way higher.
wooooooow
Honestly, you'd be shocked at what's happening in Canada. They've aligned Medical assistance in Dying with the idea of Dignity. Canada is creating a profit system on Death under the guise of a dignified death through MAID. I know Euthanasia happens in isolated pockets in the US, but i don't think its to the extent of what's happening in Canada.
I would be shocked. Can you provide any sources to provide more information on this?
MAID is a great program. It’s compassionate for those who are suffering and sick and who aren’t going to get better
I’ve heard about stuff like that and it sounds really sad. But I really don’t know much about it.
How many people have chosen to go that way in Canada?
In 2024 it was 5% of all deaths. That doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. Would you prefer people linger around and suffer in pain?
I don’t understand people who disagree with MAID, I truly don’t. I have chronic pain and illness that is never going to get better, and I have such severe pain that I can’t work and living in such pain is exhausting. MAID is such a great thing, it’s the compassionate thing to do for those who are suffering. It’s not like they will approve it for those who don’t need it or who don’t qualify, for lack of a better word
I agree with you completely. I’m really sorry to hear about your pain and struggles. I have some of the same, a lot of chronic pain, mental health difficulties, very tough sitting at a computer for long, so poor, and, at 65 I’m feeling less motivated to keep going and in the last couple of years, thinking this isn’t going to work at some point. Euthanasia is available in my state, but only if you have a terminal illness with less than six months left.
I hope you figure out a way to feel better. Take care of yourself.
Thank you for your kindness and compassion. I’m so so so sorry about your chronic pain and mental health issues, I’m praying for you and giving you giant hugs💜🫂
😊 👊
i hear you and do feel for you to struggle with such pain. The Reality is, MAID can never align with a Christian Faith when you understand where death come from (ie. knowing Physical death for humanity only entered the world as a result of Sin. So, the rush towards death in an unnatural way like MAID, is rushing towards something that is the exact opposite of God Himself -- God who is the Way, Truth and the Life
Not sure it's all that much related. No matter what your stance is on the origins of the universe, we still have to figure out the best way to get affordable and effective healthcare to all.
The Christian perspective is the biblical perspective. Government is not assigned the role of caring for the church. The body of Christ has that responsibility, and in many cases believers are simply not fulfilling it.
In Scripture, healthcare and material care are handled relationally within God’s people, not outsourced to the state.
None of this is placed on Rome, Caesar, or any civil government.
It is placed on believers.
So when political parties claim Christian branding while neglecting the poor, that’s just politics borrowing religious language. And when churches fail to care for the weak among them, that’s the body of Christ neglecting its own duty.
Biblically: Christians care for people. Governments govern. One does not erase the other.
Learn Scripture, follow Jesus, praise God!
Then conservative American Christians are hypocrites, speaking on how government shouldn't take the Church's role of charity and aid yet demanding the government become morality police for the Church.
That sounds like a debate about modern American politics, and that’s not what I’m talking about.
My point was simply that Scripture assigns charity and care to believers, not to civil government.
What people in modern politics do with that is their own issue.
If someone wants the state to enforce their moral preferences, that has nothing to do with what I said.
I’m only pointing out the difference Scripture makes between:
That’s not a political argument. That’s just reading the text.
Learn Scripture, follow Jesus, praise God!
The Christian perspective on health care is pretty much everyone's position on healthcare: That access to affordable high quality care should be the goal. How that is implemented is, of course, a matter of debate. There are pros and cons to any of the proposed solutions, as we're seeing today in both the US and elsewhere.
That said, it is truly incredible to see people attempt to pin the failures and rising costs of Obamacare on "conservatives" who over and over and over again rallied against it.
2009: "Don't pass this, it's a bad idea"
2013: "Don't do this, it's a bad idea"
2020: "Don't do this, it's a bad idea"
2025: This is conservatives' fault!
As someone who needed to be on ACA coverage in the past year, I have yet to see where it has "failed". You're going to need to be more specific about how it has "failed".
It's, by far, not even close to the top ten things the government spends on. I don't exactly see Republicans "rallying against" massive military overspending, do you? In fact, I distinctly recall the current Republican administration dumping another trillion dollars in deficit onto us this year, so all this talk about "rising costs" rings incredibly hollow.
This is a terrible strawman. No one is "blaming conservatives for rising costs and failures of obamacare". They are, however, blaming conservatives for gutting funding and leaving hundreds of thousands out to dry without access to healthcare. That I've seen plenty of.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the current discussion over the increasing cost of healthcare centered on the expiration of the temporary subsidies passed during COVID? And that without those COVID subsidies, the 2009 law resulted in health insurance premiums that are unaffordable to many Americans? I would call that a pretty significant failure.
Remember, Obamacare initially promised to reduce health insurance premiums by 14-20%. Among other predictions that famously turned out not to be true. It has had the exact opposite result, as we now see.
First of all, United States public health care spending vastly vastly outpaces US military spending, nearly double to be specific. The temporary Obamacare subsidies as a line item does not, that much is true.
Second, yes a lot of Republicans have been rallying against military waste, or have you forgotten the controversy between Republicans and Ukraine?
Third of all, this is a diversion. The failures of Obamcare can't be hand-waved away by "but the military".
The only health insurance item that Republicans have "cut" (and not even cut so much as "let expire as planned") are the expanded subsidies passed during COVID to mask the premium increases caused by...Obamacare.
Obamacare is the best insurance I’ve ever had. I honestly think it saved my life, because I was uninsurable at any cost and went 10 years without health insurance (and without the health care I needed).
Wouldn't this spike have happened even without the ACA? It was caused by COVID, was it not?
Actually.....it seems we're both wrong. They're about evens up.
https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/federal-spending/
The real killer seems to be Social Security, for reasons that are fairly evident.
And yet have been chomping at the bit to get into a war with Venezuela (or dump funds into a coup) or Iran and more than willing to continue shelling out money to Israel.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/692948/u.s.-back-israel-military-action-gaza-new-low.aspx
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/52958-most-americans-oppose-military-involvement-in-venezuela-maduro-poll
The whole Ukranian affair was in name only, the thirst for military spending made itself evident elsewhere rather hypocritically. It's a broadly dishonest outlier (not saying you're dishonest, but those saying they "don't support Ukraine because they want to cut back on funding" are broadly dishonest).
The point was to call out hypocrisy. If one says that one major reason the ACA is bad is because it's "too expensive", then beliefs elsewhere to the contrary expose that this is a dishonest criticism.
Do you have proof that the cause of these spikes is the ACA and not, say, the COVID pandemic?
This right here. It's incredible that democrat policies have run healthcare costs up for over a decade, but because healthcare is continously unaffordable it's somehow conservatives' fault.
Even if "rising costs" were true.....what is better: That the middle class absorb a slight price hike, or that there be no option for the poor who cannot afford private healthcare even without the price hikes?
That's a false dichotomy.
I'm all for improving access to healthcare, but I don't believe in massive government solutions (that don't actually do anything to fix the problem) to do so. I would like to see a system that incentivizes free market ideals and rewards frugality.
I was simply pointing out that it's amazing to me that the current healthcare system is entirely a democrat-built structure, but they always want to blame healthcare problems on the republicans (especially right now with the "affordability" talking points).
The free market is economic darwinism. There is no "the poor get healthcare" under a free market ideal, save for perhaps debt slavery.
The free market doesn't care if the poor die, they weren't going to make a profit from them anyways.
Are you suggesting the reason the poor can't afford healthcare is because they're not frugal enough? What?
Perhaps because Republicans keep trying to gut and defund the one option those in poverty have without providing an alternative?
You're creating a false dichotomy again. You can absolutely create a system that promotes the free market without stripping care from the poor. Just as a very basic example, rather than having low transparency and insurance contracts, put money in a healthcare fund for these people so that they specifically choose where that money goes and how much. That would also improve transparency and reduce administrative costs.
To incentivize frugality, maybe allow people to withdraw unspent money from the account for non-health purposes after a certain amount of time, or simply roll over into retirement accounts.
Not at all. Although it's generally true poor people are bad with money, they often don't actually even have healthcare costs because everything goes through medicaid.
Having everything fully paid for on the taxpayers' dime, including going to the emergency room for non-emergency services, is not a good way to utilize our already overworked industry or promote responsibility.
It's funny, you blame what republicans keep "trying" to do rather than what the democrats have actually done that led to the unaffordablility.
You're also mistaking my criticism of democrats as support for republicans. They should have a better plan to promote than what they do.
Who's money? And how much? Because unless you're completely ending the health insurance market all together and drastically reducing healthcare costs (which isn't a free market act) the amount of money needed to be gathered to cover medical expenses is incredibly high compared to simply paying health insurance premiums. And if health insurance is going to be subsidized, then the cost of premiums will rise as well. Because that's how the free market works: It attempts to maximize profits even if that means bleeding every drop it can from a person.
???
What does any of this have to do with "frugality"? What, you mean "incentivize not going to the doctor"? Because that's creates a high mortality rate amongst the impoverished. I know because I've been there, and I've seen how it warps people to not even wanting to get a broken bone or heart pain checked.
"Frugality" in medicine incentives unhealthy lifestyles and death.
Honestly, they're some of the best, because making ends meet and keeping budget is the razor thin line between life and death. Unlike middle to high incomes, which can afford to and do blow money on a whim.
The alternative (and no, this one is absolutely true) is that poor people will not get potentially serious things checked out. It's a real phenomenon.
So between the taxpayer having to pay a few more dollars and high demand for medical professionals (which a free market will fix, no?) or poor people dying of preventable diseases because the safety net has been cut to "teach them responsibility" (which isn't the government's job in the slightest).....you choose the latter?
You are absolutely arguing for economic darwinism. "If you're not money savvy enough or responsible enough to overcome a system rigged against you for the sake of profitability, you deserve to not receive medical care and die".
I didn't know Democrats created COVID or are sleazy health insurance executives profiting off denying claims and killing people.....
Likewise, insurance was unaffordable for the poor to begin with. The ACA did not magically make create the problem it was made to solve. The price hikes affect the middle class, who are more than capable of absorbing it even if begrudgingly. The poor will never be able to afford private healthcare, and thus rely on the free/near-free subsidized alternative.
Painting it as if the poor can't afford healthcare because of the ACA breaks causality and logic. It's pure fiction and partisan bullshittery.
Does not at all excuse that Republicans have not offered an alternative and want to gut the system and simply leave the poor to die of economic darwinism.
Healthcare or health insurance?
I think everyone should eat healthy food and workout regularly.
Maybe even find some fun physical activities.
People who eat healthy food and workout regularly can still suffer accidents and illnesses that require medical treatment.
If you have to work 60-80 hours a week and that barely covers your bills, how do you recommend eating healthy and working our regularly?
Buy some cheap dumbbells. Or ask around.
I meal prep for a whole week and it costs me under $25 to make 5-6 meals. That’s two trips to McDonald’s.
You did answer my question, but not in the direction I was looking for.
If you work 80 hours a week, that's just shy of 11.5 hours per day. So let's do some math.
11.5 hours - work 8 hours - sleep .5 hours - eating 1 hour - commute .5 hour - hygiene
This is the bare necessity for living. It doesn't address chores, family, grocery shopping, food prep, or even just some time to decompress, and assumes you have an average commute.
For that, you have 2.5 hours distributed randomly throughout the day.
If you have worked on your feet all day long, you are exhausted. Trust me. I know because I lived like this for a while. You don't have time to make a healthy meal from scratch. I certainly didn't have time to meal prep once a week.
And exercise? It's impossible.
This doesn't address the very real problem that exercise and diet do help, but they don't fix injuries, disease, illness, and conditions.
I have a long-term health condition. I will have it until the day I die. It costs $500 a month in medication for me to be a functional adult. I have a very good diet. I work out at least 4 times a week. Those certainly help. But without my medication, I am unable to work.
I am fortunate that I can afford that now. But my siblings who have the same condition can't afford that. So they shuffle from job to job because they are to sick for consistent employment, and they dont qualify for disability.
But if they had health insurance, if they didn't have to pay for medications, not only would their lives improve dramatically, they could be productive members of society.
Our health care "system" destroys Americans. It hurts the economy. It removes people from the workforce. It kills people.
Exercise and diet are important for a healthy life, but it's not a replacement for medical care.
Just wait til you get cancer even though you did everything "right".
I hope not
I can’t tell if you’re serious or not.
People who do this still have health issues that require treatment from medical professionals.
That's the classic bumper sticker slogan I've seen more than once. "Republican healthcare plan: Don't get sick". It's not an exaggeration, that's literally their platform.
I wonder if these people have family members who have ever needed medical treatment. Do they just see them as weak and blame-worthy for their ailments?
The ignorance is insane to me. Maybe that’s my bias as a public health professional.
I don't think grasping the concept that the human body is frail and subject to any number of ailments and accidents that one could not have prevented requires the bias of a professional.
And of course even just to get to that point, we have to strip away empathy for anyone who suffered medical problems exacerbated by any of their own actions. Fuck them entirely I guess. That's the Christian way.
And I guess we're all supposed to ignore that having access to healthcare reduces the amount of preventable ailments. That's not even a concept in the Christian world either.
Sadly I fear you’re correct for a great number of the voting population, and certainly of the elected politicians making laws.
Oh for sure. People get sick. It happens. It sucks doctors charge so much.
It’s a feedback loop. A big part of why doctors charge so much, especially in a hospital setting, is that so many people are uninsured and/or are unable to pay for the care they need. Encouraging healthy habits, while good for overall health, will not solve the underlying problems.
Couldn’t doctors just help people for free because they’re good people?
Why charge at all to save lives?
Some doctors do this! My friend who’s a urologist travels during his limited free time to perform life-saving surgeries to people who otherwise wouldn’t have access. He does this as part of a charitable initiative that’s far greater than himself because even ignoring the time and expertise that he invests, the medicines and equipment involved in lots of medical care are still quite costly.
Beyond that, I don’t think it’s realistic to demand that an entire profession work for free, especially one that requires a tremendous amount of costly education and training.
That’s awesome your friend does that!
Agreed!
That’s so awesome of your doctor to do!!!!
As someone who works in healthcare, we have to make a living the same as you. I do some volunteer work in a healthcare capacity, but I have bills and children.
Cool. I did those things. Still got diagnosed with cancer. Thankfully, I have good insurance because my care was probably north of $500k.
That's beyond insulting. People can experience severe illness and injury through no fault of their own. My dad suffered serious health problems due to chemical exposures while serving in the US military. If not for the godless socialism of VA healthcare, he would have died much younger. Hate to break it to you, but even you will need healthcare at some point if you live long enough.
How is asking about the distinction between healthcare and health insurance an insult? Calm down.
Oh, God. Please. Yes, everyone should try to be healthy. But what about pollution and toxic environment that causes illness? What about accidents? What about genetically inherited disease?
The Christian perspective is that you need to buy any products and services you want.
Forcing other people to pay for the products and services you want to enjoy is immoral and just another form of slavery.
The Christian perspective is that individuals should love themselves and care for themselves to avoid self imposed illnesses and disease.
Don't you think we have a responsibility to care for the poor, the vulnerable, the needy?
“If there is a poor person among you, one of your fellow Israelites, in any of your towns within the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward them. Rather, be openhanded and freely lend them whatever they need.” (Deuteronomy 15:7-8)
I am all for charity. Love it. I do it and have benefited from it.
Charity is Christian. Coercion is not.
I agree that we, as the body of Christ, should all be charitable to every human being, and that if we fulfilled our duty, perhaps we could meet the needs of the most afflicted. But we cannot simply rely on this notion; a dignified life is an inalienable right given by God to every human being. And as a society, we must be able to guarantee it. I agree that we, as the body of Christ, should all be charitable to every living being, and that if we fulfilled our duty, perhaps we could meet the needs of the most afflicted. But we cannot simply rely on this notion; a dignified life is an inalienable right given by God to every human being. And as a society, we must be able to guarantee it. A State that looks after its citizens and creates the necessary structures so that everyone can lead a dignified life is a just State, one that seeks the common good.
Forcing other people to provide products and services for you at their expense is not a "dignified life."
So it's safe to assume that you haven't driven on any municipal roads, attended public schools, lived or worked in buildings inspected to conform to safety codes, filed a police report or benefitted from emergency services in any way, borrowed a book from a library, or taken a walk through a public park?
Or have you, but you consider yourself to be a slaver?
Or, do you just see healthcare as different because you haven't lived with universal healthcare for your whole life?
I nowhere argued against public services for the community.
I have argued about products and services that YOU want and desire to force other people to pay for them for YOU.
Many use your argument to also claim that all their food and housing must be paid for by other people as well. Add to that, they want the loans they have taken out and signed off on to be worked for and paid....by other people, of course.
The police officer who is taking your statement is providing a service to you directly. Should everyone have to pay for the cop's salary when you're the one who got mugged? The book you check out for free is a service being provided to you directly. Should everyone have to pay for you to read a novel or self-help guide? The firefighters putting out the fire at your house are providing a service directly to you. Should everyone have to pay because your oven malfunctioned?
Healthcare helps individuals, but it is just as much a service to the community. Infectious diseases spread less in the community when the first couple of sick people can get diagnosed and treated. Healthcare is cheaper for everyone under a single-payer system, benefiting the community. People obtaining preventative care keeps them productive in the economy for longer.
Seeing it all as individual is pretty myopic, particularly if you see all of those other services as benefitting the community.
Again, I hear this all the time for every other major expense....including, food, housing, and even loans.
"It is all for the community!".....so they seek to coerce other people to pay for it all.
This isn't really responsive to my comment. We're discussing healthcare. If you see those as having similar arguments to healthcare, you're welcome to raise those arguments. Just saying it's the same as other things you don't like isn't really saying anything at all.
That being said, it's not any more coercive than any other service I've listed here. You live in a society. Part of living in a society is collaboration. In addition, it isn't getting "other people" to pay for it. It isn't "them" paying for "me" or "us" paying for "you." It's all of us paying for all of us. The same way we handle every other aspect of governing, including all of the public services I've listed that you seem not to take umbrage with.
This is why Jesus Christ made people pay for all that healing and loaves and fishes. Very very Christian indeed.
No one coerced God into providing. No one can.
Because love has nothing to do with coercion.
Christ did it because He had it and He desired to give it. Please note that He did not go around feeding all the poor in Israel.
And if you can't afford those services, then tough?
So everyone should pay out of their own bank accounts for healthcare, even if it's a 500,000 dollar hospital bill. No government involvement. No insurance company involvement.
Have good insurance. Pay it off over time. Make arrangements and set terms with the caregivers. Seek charitable assistance. Etc...
Again, you make my point.
You are saying it is unjust for someone to pay for their own products and services...but it is just to make other people pay for products and services they did not purchase.
I'm confused.
You said:
Then followed it directly with:
Which is it? Is it immoral to have other people pay for your services, or is it okay to have other people pay for your services?
"If you dont have money to live, you should just get money"
Christianity is a form of death-worship
I'm sorry, but I am not pro slavery.
Oh, so youre not a christian then.
I thought you were because you were pro-eugenics
Most jobs don't offer insurance dude. Do you know how many times I've been fucked around with by being hired as "Flex time" so that they could make me work 40+ hrs a week, but not provide insurance. Too many.
Do you hold this same opinion about police, fire, infrastructure? Someone shouldn’t be able to use a road unless they pay for it, the police shouldn’t protect someone who isn’t paying for that protection?
Those are for the community....not for YOU.
Healthcare is for the community. A community benefits from healthy people who can work and contribute.
That is a common falsehood.
People make the same claim about food and housing as well. I have heard some even claim this applies to some entertainment expenses as well.
They want other people to be forced to work and pay for all of that for them.
I’m not claiming this applies to entertainment expenses, no need to create arguments I’m not making.
Do you support public education? Is that for the community, or for the learner?
This has to be one long-running joke.
"Give to whoever asks of you"?
I am struggling, gnurdette, with some bills and medical issues. Send me a couple of thousand please. I may contact you for more.
If I send you my Paypal info, you will send me what I ask for, correct?
We all chicken out of living fully into the Sermon on the Mount, don't we? All except a few exemplary saints like St. Francis. I give through local and national charities, I pay my taxes, and I also vote that those taxes and my country's resources overall should be used as though Christ were alive and not dead.
Though I'm not spiritually brave or obedient enough to live as a St. Francis, I at least don't openly despise Christ's commands to the point of claiming that "the Christian position" is to demand defying Christ.
I understand.
You quote it...but you refuse to live it. This is all over this sub.
Maybe it does not mean what you believe it means.
You just did.
I'll send you the money if you give me your paypal.
That's the joke they are making. Using it to guilt others but not doing it themselves.
So give me everything you got.
Your perspective is straight out of the GOP Jesus skit at 1:37.
Matthew 9: 20-22
“Rabbi, Rabbi, surely you can heal me?”
“My child, of course I could, but who would pay for it?”
“What? I don’t understand. I don’t have any money.”
“Yes, it’s a sad story, but it does not make me responsible.”
No one coerced God into providing. No one can.
Because love has nothing to do with coercion.
Christ did it because He had it and He desired to give it.
I am sure there are some that believed Jesus was obligated to heal them.
Thankfully we can just render unto ceaser the cost for healthcare.
The church should take care of the sick and the Lord loves a cheerful giver. The job of the state is to be an agent of wrath against evildoers not a source of healthcare. Remember the biblical concept of the separation of church and state, the church and state has roles.
An agent of wrath against evildoers? Then why was Trump elected:? He is a very evil man and belongs in prison.
I don’t think conservatives are fighting to dismantle affordable health care. I think they just want it for citizens. I also believe a bill should be one bill, not twelve million in one. As a Christian I believe everyone should be afforded healthcare.
So if a tourist from France visiting Florida comes down with a sudden infection the Hospital should just let them die?
How about we heal sick people and not charge them more money than they'll make in their entire lifetime?
No. We can't have that can we...
I’m not saying that at all. But if that same French man is here illegally and has been for years he should be be afforded the same free medical care that Americans are paying taxes for. Personally I think health care should be free for everyone but not gov controlled. But how do you do that?
Why are you disallowing doctors to sell their labor and services to foreigners, whether legal or not?
Commerce doesn't care for legality
Apparently you can’t read
Americans already don't have free healthcare so I don't know what you're talking about
It’s an opinion