Yeah this is definitely happening everywhere, not just in church circles. Dating apps kinda broke everything and now nobody knows how to just walk up and talk to someone irl anymore
That's not really the issue. The issue is that men (especially gen z) have been told their whole life to not go walk over and talk to random girls, because that makes you "creepy". It's not accurate to say that people dont know how to talk to people anymore.
I think this is the case. Men are scared of rejection and/or public humiliation if they ask the wrong person out. I think there is a big thing in this younger generation where they worry about social fallout in a neurotic way
It goes both ways. Women are scared of getting harassed, stalked or met with violence if they reject the wrong person.
Dating apps are a decent way to talk to random girls. These apps just reflect the reality that people no longer have to settle anymore, especially when remaining single remains just as attractive an option for many modern women.
I don’t know why everybody gives out their opinion almost as fact. When ILL GIVE YOU THE FACTS. Factually dating has declined due to the economic pressures, technological fatigue( since a lot of people meet online nowadays), changing societal norms(meaning that there’s less stigma on people being single)
^ back in yall old folks times, there was a lot of pressure for people to get married. Now there isn’t as much. Times are changing. More independence. Which isn’t bad. Except for Christians of course because they love making everything about themselves lol.
it’s not completely voluntary. Like I said it’s a mix of a lot of different factors, like economic pressures and social pressures. For example is why people tend to go to church more when the economy is bad or war is breaking out. It’s the same here. Technological fatigue and burnout is also contributing to it
Most girls don’t want to date a guy with modern “Christian” morals. I saw a dating show where the girl asked “how did you vote?” and the guy waffled on his answer. That was enough for her and she was out.
Guys, live like Jesus would and listen to his teachings. Love the outcast, rebuke the greedy, and live with humility, compassion, and love. Women dig that.
Because men were told to leave women alone. If a woman wants a man to ask her out or going back to the true tradition of America. The woman drops a handkerchief, and then the man will ask her out.
Because I am afraid the girl would insult or humiliate me if she is not interested. My understanding is that you are supposed to let the women give you some signals first.
I was part of a Christian youth group ( 150+ people) in college and the idea that Jesus would basically deliver your soul mate on a plate to you was very pervasive. So many of the girls and guys in the group wouldn't even consider asking out someone they felt attracted to. They even had speakers come in and promote courtship as a reasonable method of pseudo dating.
I met my wife during one of the gatherings and we stopped going because it was too crazy 😅
Curious how active the Joshua Harris model is in Evangelical circles these days, especially now that he has disavowed it and left the church. I had a similar experience in my college group 15 years ago. A long prayerful discernment process was expected prior to asking anyone out, which put way too much pressure on early dates.
There are Christian women, and there are Godly women. Some men are looking for the later. Attending church and being a Christian is not the same as living a Christ centered and Christ driven life. And it often goes the same way in reverse. Christ centered women are often looking for Godly men. There is a short supply of both in the modern church.
No, I agree, it absolutely happens and it’s more pronounced than the general public (where it’s a trend already).
One of the main factors that people don’t talk about as much is that it’s riskier to ask people out at church (I assume this is the context we’re talking about here).
It’s riskier because it creates awkwardness at church, which is where you presumably are at for large chunks of your life/have a lot of social interaction in. And also, if a relationship fails, it makes future relationships less likely because the next girl could be good friends with your ex. Or the next girl could be aware of one of her friends liking you already, making it less likely she’ll say yes to you, because it strains an existing friendship. She’s gotta be really sure she likes you too. Things can get messy socially.
It’s moreso about the dynamics of dating in a social circle where everyone is constantly interacting, and is generally friendly. Riskier because it challenges the status quo of that, introduces new tensions.
Guys internalize all of this to some degree. And realize it’s more comfortable to leave it all alone. If they ask people out, its easier and cleaner that it’s outside of the church circle.
It can be risky within the church. I've dated a couple of girls at the church I was going to and when it didnt work out... you still have to see them lol. Plus sometimes it stirs the pot. I took one girl out once and I wasnt feeling her. Starter dating her friend and we hit it off and dated for a couple of months. Again... your home church is only so big.
Now dating women in other churches seems more feasible. But thats just my 2 cents.
Met one (older than me) woman and her son (closer to my age) at church on mother's day. A few weeks later, the mother was saying hi to someone I was talking to and then turned to tell me, "my son thinks you're cute, he told me he found his future wife!" And then she left
To be honest, I don't remember her son AT ALL. This was when I was still meeting 2-3 people every time I went to church, and they all blended together. I haven't seen the guy since. So now I have a running joke about my "future husband" who I know almost nothing about. I have been pretty clear with a few people that I'm open to dates but a guy has to ask me out himself
Christian girls have preferences and we aren't those preferences.. So we dont bother.. And we dont wanna catch a case for harassment.. An unwanted hi could count as harassment these days..
I’ve heard it said though as a joke, if you ask a girl in public out she might reject you and that’s that, but if she said no and you had to see her every Sunday it could get awkward.
I think some christian guys do believe that God puts somebody in their life, but then they forget they still have to take that first step and actually introduce themselves and ask them out / get to know them.
God isn’t going to
“Josh this is Kaylie. [Pulls $50 out of his own wallet] Here. go eat.”
I don’t want to date Christian men anymore. I had been dating only Christian men thinking it was a values alignment and they have all been liars or disrespectful people, hiding it behind scripture. Some of them outright racist.
Yes these people exist generally but to use the Bible as a shield for ill intent is very angering to me.
I already left the church because of how vile people there were. I think I will focus more on spiritual men going forward.
Hmm I feel like it’s a lot of guys who ask Christian girls out, but I live in Norway, maybe it’s different here. But I think Christian men maybe have higher standards, like in knowing the person they ask out
Because you don't seek a mate if you don't have one. That's written in the bible.
You're focus is to be on GOD , and when the time is right in GOD'S eyes, the right woman will show up, casual conversation will start, friendship will build and grow, both focusing on the same priority (GOD) and eventually marriage and a life long happiness.
A Christian seeking a woman, takes the focus and trust in GODS timing and puts it towards our own desire and wants. Thus moving to early and missing the target.
Because satan will be the one trying to pressure this desire, so a person will do just that, look away from GOD'S will.
And you can well believe that Satan has the perfect angel woman / man picked out for you, that will start out amazing and perfect, quickly moving into intimacy and other things of the human desire, then marriage, then he starts revealing between the 2 of you, the flaws, red flags, differences, animosity etc.
Things GOD would be showing you, if HE wasn't put second above our own wants and understanding. Ultimately, the 2 become bitter and eventually break the marriage covenant. Now the innocence is broken within you. And you have to fight the pain of wanting a partner, and time wasted, scars left behind etc.
That we forget that everything we are looking for can only be given and taught by Jesus .
A slow downward spiritual spiral starts, and can become a repetitive revolving door, that over time, collects heavy scars and memories that become an excuse and focus, making a great person appear bad or the same as others.
Not always does this happen, some end up happy right off , but it was GOD'S plan for it and it's purpose.
The point is, Christianity is the focus on having a faithful bonding relationship with GOD and all His teachings wisdom, understanding and timing, Not human relationship.
Otherwise you'll open the door of opportunity for Satan to play his games to ruin you if he can.
Because asking a woman out is very risky. The prospect of rejection is a turnoff, and if you ask her out and you’re in the same church, or if you date within the same church, if things don’t work out you may need to leave.
I use dating apps, helps me to avoid women who are really wrong for me. I know I don’t want a woman who smokes. I just hit like every time I find one who matches what I’m looking for and if they like me also I message them that I saw we liked each other.
Because women are indoctrinated into believing a different way of life is correct. They’re programmed to believe against their nature but then they still desire that nature. Despite all the evidence of that way of life is destroying humanity as a whole.
Women say they want a nice guy. One that’s a feminist. But the nice guys aren’t the ones they actively search for and choose for romantic partners.
These days the system is entirely broken. From just not a cultural view but also within the laws that govern men and women.
Until the family court decides to reverse just how badly a marriage will fuck a man over, it’s not even worth marrying. Dating is just as bad. They want unrealistic expectations for their dates but they’re mid women at best.
Don't be silly, of course it's happening somewhat. Everyone you don't find attractive should know that you don't, and just not even try. I'm a guy and I've even stupidly sort of felt that way.
I would say I'm not attracted to the vast majority of people that I interact with every day and I don't call any of them creeps unless they go out of their way to behave toward me in a creepy manner.
If you are repeatedly being told that you are a creep there's something wrong with what you're doing and how you're interacting with people.
No, you're assuming good motives and social awareness and empathy on the part of everybody else. Because you do it right doesn't mean they do. There are PLENTY of people who just blunder through life. It's a truism on Reddit that anonymous flowers from Joe McHandsome is cool and romantic, but the same from Ugly McNerdey is seen as creepy.
Please note the word "repeatedly". If you usually have a normal interactions with other people and someone calls you a creep one time, it's a fluke or they were in a bad mood. Whatever.
If you are repeatedly being called out for being creepy, you are more than likely creepy.
That "it's not creepy if a handsome guy does it truism" as you call it is cope for incels who don't know how to talk to women as fellow human beings.
I miss the word repeatedly, but the other point stands. There are plenty of women who are plenty judgmental and they really do exist. There are plenty of people who never got past 9th grade emotionally.
I'm not even complaining about it much personally. I've been rejected pretty maturely on the whole. I'm just saying that if you haven't had to deal with it, then it's easy not to notice.
But come to think of it I do have a small example. I thought a girl was paying attention to me, so I paid attention back, and then I just asked her if she was going to this birthday party, she went well out of her way to make sure that I really understood that she was not interested, and she implied that I was doing something wrong, that I was not in her league basically. I hadn't even tried to initiate a private conversation.
If you think this is a Christian problem you should look at the wide consensus of males not asking out females anymore.
Reason ? I don't know I would guess confidence in one's self is really low modern day. I don't know why.
I had this problem and I ended up realizing it. And fixed it and I'm married and have kids now.
I used to be afraid of girls when I was little. Then I learned girls actually liked me in school so I ended up with girl friends, but I thought that was it. Obv it ended at that point. Then once I fully realized my problems, I said the next woman I date I will not hold back anything. I will fully have my heart and feelings on my sleeve, anything I think I will say. Everything I want to tell this woman I will and I did and we're married now for 5 years and we have a beautiful intelligent 2 year old Healthy daughter.
No I'm not saying go on one date and tell some first date woman everything you plan right out in the open there's obviously a time and place for that.
I think this is a more general issue than just for Christians.
Yeah this is definitely happening everywhere, not just in church circles. Dating apps kinda broke everything and now nobody knows how to just walk up and talk to someone irl anymore
That's not really the issue. The issue is that men (especially gen z) have been told their whole life to not go walk over and talk to random girls, because that makes you "creepy". It's not accurate to say that people dont know how to talk to people anymore.
I think this is the case. Men are scared of rejection and/or public humiliation if they ask the wrong person out. I think there is a big thing in this younger generation where they worry about social fallout in a neurotic way
It goes both ways. Women are scared of getting harassed, stalked or met with violence if they reject the wrong person.
Dating apps are a decent way to talk to random girls. These apps just reflect the reality that people no longer have to settle anymore, especially when remaining single remains just as attractive an option for many modern women.
Yup. Although you can't really blame em
Yeah people are more guarded this last few decades with relationships
I don’t know why everybody gives out their opinion almost as fact. When ILL GIVE YOU THE FACTS. Factually dating has declined due to the economic pressures, technological fatigue( since a lot of people meet online nowadays), changing societal norms(meaning that there’s less stigma on people being single) ^ back in yall old folks times, there was a lot of pressure for people to get married. Now there isn’t as much. Times are changing. More independence. Which isn’t bad. Except for Christians of course because they love making everything about themselves lol.
This is just not correct, because if it was true that it's completely voluntary, so many people wouldn't be suffering due to loneliness.
Except as everyone here says, this is not a Christian problem, but a problem of modern society as a whole.
it’s not completely voluntary. Like I said it’s a mix of a lot of different factors, like economic pressures and social pressures. For example is why people tend to go to church more when the economy is bad or war is breaking out. It’s the same here. Technological fatigue and burnout is also contributing to it
For once, the atheist is right.
Making a romantic move "in church" is extremely risky. Gossip plays a large role on a person's reputation regardless of where and when.
As a guy... girls are absolutely brutal with their rejections. I'd rather be alone than labeled creepy.
I waited for my wife to ask me out. I got lucky.
is your wife single? 😭
Most girls don’t want to date a guy with modern “Christian” morals. I saw a dating show where the girl asked “how did you vote?” and the guy waffled on his answer. That was enough for her and she was out.
Guys, live like Jesus would and listen to his teachings. Love the outcast, rebuke the greedy, and live with humility, compassion, and love. Women dig that.
As a woman, can confirm.
Because men were told to leave women alone. If a woman wants a man to ask her out or going back to the true tradition of America. The woman drops a handkerchief, and then the man will ask her out.
Because I am afraid the girl would insult or humiliate me if she is not interested. My understanding is that you are supposed to let the women give you some signals first.
I was part of a Christian youth group ( 150+ people) in college and the idea that Jesus would basically deliver your soul mate on a plate to you was very pervasive. So many of the girls and guys in the group wouldn't even consider asking out someone they felt attracted to. They even had speakers come in and promote courtship as a reasonable method of pseudo dating.
I met my wife during one of the gatherings and we stopped going because it was too crazy 😅
Curious how active the Joshua Harris model is in Evangelical circles these days, especially now that he has disavowed it and left the church. I had a similar experience in my college group 15 years ago. A long prayerful discernment process was expected prior to asking anyone out, which put way too much pressure on early dates.
Maybe they’re waiting to see if she’ll take the initiative?
if they're that interested, nothing's wrong with doing the first move instead
There are Christian women, and there are Godly women. Some men are looking for the later. Attending church and being a Christian is not the same as living a Christ centered and Christ driven life. And it often goes the same way in reverse. Christ centered women are often looking for Godly men. There is a short supply of both in the modern church.
Because for whatever reason, men aren’t interested in them
wolves in Woolite beat em to the punch.
What is Christian guy and girl?
Because I am ugly.
No, I agree, it absolutely happens and it’s more pronounced than the general public (where it’s a trend already).
One of the main factors that people don’t talk about as much is that it’s riskier to ask people out at church (I assume this is the context we’re talking about here).
It’s riskier because it creates awkwardness at church, which is where you presumably are at for large chunks of your life/have a lot of social interaction in. And also, if a relationship fails, it makes future relationships less likely because the next girl could be good friends with your ex. Or the next girl could be aware of one of her friends liking you already, making it less likely she’ll say yes to you, because it strains an existing friendship. She’s gotta be really sure she likes you too. Things can get messy socially.
It’s moreso about the dynamics of dating in a social circle where everyone is constantly interacting, and is generally friendly. Riskier because it challenges the status quo of that, introduces new tensions.
Guys internalize all of this to some degree. And realize it’s more comfortable to leave it all alone. If they ask people out, its easier and cleaner that it’s outside of the church circle.
It can be risky within the church. I've dated a couple of girls at the church I was going to and when it didnt work out... you still have to see them lol. Plus sometimes it stirs the pot. I took one girl out once and I wasnt feeling her. Starter dating her friend and we hit it off and dated for a couple of months. Again... your home church is only so big.
Now dating women in other churches seems more feasible. But thats just my 2 cents.
They’re focused on Jesus
Wait is this an actual thing, is that why im 31 and single
Yes
Labels. Just like GOD would think of humans. Just labels
Still waiting....
Met one (older than me) woman and her son (closer to my age) at church on mother's day. A few weeks later, the mother was saying hi to someone I was talking to and then turned to tell me, "my son thinks you're cute, he told me he found his future wife!" And then she left
To be honest, I don't remember her son AT ALL. This was when I was still meeting 2-3 people every time I went to church, and they all blended together. I haven't seen the guy since. So now I have a running joke about my "future husband" who I know almost nothing about. I have been pretty clear with a few people that I'm open to dates but a guy has to ask me out himself
Christian girls have preferences and we aren't those preferences.. So we dont bother.. And we dont wanna catch a case for harassment.. An unwanted hi could count as harassment these days..
I’ve heard it said though as a joke, if you ask a girl in public out she might reject you and that’s that, but if she said no and you had to see her every Sunday it could get awkward.
I think some christian guys do believe that God puts somebody in their life, but then they forget they still have to take that first step and actually introduce themselves and ask them out / get to know them.
God isn’t going to
“Josh this is Kaylie. [Pulls $50 out of his own wallet] Here. go eat.”
Maybe it is the vibe we give off?
I don’t want to date Christian men anymore. I had been dating only Christian men thinking it was a values alignment and they have all been liars or disrespectful people, hiding it behind scripture. Some of them outright racist.
Yes these people exist generally but to use the Bible as a shield for ill intent is very angering to me.
I already left the church because of how vile people there were. I think I will focus more on spiritual men going forward.
Hmm I feel like it’s a lot of guys who ask Christian girls out, but I live in Norway, maybe it’s different here. But I think Christian men maybe have higher standards, like in knowing the person they ask out
Because you don't seek a mate if you don't have one. That's written in the bible.
You're focus is to be on GOD , and when the time is right in GOD'S eyes, the right woman will show up, casual conversation will start, friendship will build and grow, both focusing on the same priority (GOD) and eventually marriage and a life long happiness.
A Christian seeking a woman, takes the focus and trust in GODS timing and puts it towards our own desire and wants. Thus moving to early and missing the target.
Because satan will be the one trying to pressure this desire, so a person will do just that, look away from GOD'S will. And you can well believe that Satan has the perfect angel woman / man picked out for you, that will start out amazing and perfect, quickly moving into intimacy and other things of the human desire, then marriage, then he starts revealing between the 2 of you, the flaws, red flags, differences, animosity etc. Things GOD would be showing you, if HE wasn't put second above our own wants and understanding. Ultimately, the 2 become bitter and eventually break the marriage covenant. Now the innocence is broken within you. And you have to fight the pain of wanting a partner, and time wasted, scars left behind etc. That we forget that everything we are looking for can only be given and taught by Jesus . A slow downward spiritual spiral starts, and can become a repetitive revolving door, that over time, collects heavy scars and memories that become an excuse and focus, making a great person appear bad or the same as others.
Not always does this happen, some end up happy right off , but it was GOD'S plan for it and it's purpose.
The point is, Christianity is the focus on having a faithful bonding relationship with GOD and all His teachings wisdom, understanding and timing, Not human relationship. Otherwise you'll open the door of opportunity for Satan to play his games to ruin you if he can.
Because asking a woman out is very risky. The prospect of rejection is a turnoff, and if you ask her out and you’re in the same church, or if you date within the same church, if things don’t work out you may need to leave.
I use dating apps, helps me to avoid women who are really wrong for me. I know I don’t want a woman who smokes. I just hit like every time I find one who matches what I’m looking for and if they like me also I message them that I saw we liked each other.
Because women are indoctrinated into believing a different way of life is correct. They’re programmed to believe against their nature but then they still desire that nature. Despite all the evidence of that way of life is destroying humanity as a whole.
Women say they want a nice guy. One that’s a feminist. But the nice guys aren’t the ones they actively search for and choose for romantic partners.
These days the system is entirely broken. From just not a cultural view but also within the laws that govern men and women.
Until the family court decides to reverse just how badly a marriage will fuck a man over, it’s not even worth marrying. Dating is just as bad. They want unrealistic expectations for their dates but they’re mid women at best.
They’re the same as non Christian girls. They expect guys to be perfect either in physical attractiveness or character.
No they don't, I'm very flawed and have dated a number of women Quit projecting
But are you over 6 ft tall? Lol
5'9 Most women don't really care if you're over 6ft, the vast majority just want a guy a bit taller than them
Oh ok.
What!? lol where are you getting your information from?
Catholic social circles in Los Angeles.
You’ll get labeled as a creep if they simply don’t find you attractive 😂
You get labeled as a creep if you act in a creepy way. No one is labeling normal average guys creeps.
Yeah, just take no as an answer and be respectful but direct (socially aware) with girls.
If a girl get super offended...then that is her issue. No one else is gonna think it is weird. Wow! A guy asking out a girl.
Don't be silly, of course it's happening somewhat. Everyone you don't find attractive should know that you don't, and just not even try. I'm a guy and I've even stupidly sort of felt that way.
What utter specious nonsense.
I would say I'm not attracted to the vast majority of people that I interact with every day and I don't call any of them creeps unless they go out of their way to behave toward me in a creepy manner.
If you are repeatedly being told that you are a creep there's something wrong with what you're doing and how you're interacting with people.
No, you're assuming good motives and social awareness and empathy on the part of everybody else. Because you do it right doesn't mean they do. There are PLENTY of people who just blunder through life. It's a truism on Reddit that anonymous flowers from Joe McHandsome is cool and romantic, but the same from Ugly McNerdey is seen as creepy.
Please note the word "repeatedly". If you usually have a normal interactions with other people and someone calls you a creep one time, it's a fluke or they were in a bad mood. Whatever.
If you are repeatedly being called out for being creepy, you are more than likely creepy.
That "it's not creepy if a handsome guy does it truism" as you call it is cope for incels who don't know how to talk to women as fellow human beings.
I miss the word repeatedly, but the other point stands. There are plenty of women who are plenty judgmental and they really do exist. There are plenty of people who never got past 9th grade emotionally.
I'm not even complaining about it much personally. I've been rejected pretty maturely on the whole. I'm just saying that if you haven't had to deal with it, then it's easy not to notice.
But come to think of it I do have a small example. I thought a girl was paying attention to me, so I paid attention back, and then I just asked her if she was going to this birthday party, she went well out of her way to make sure that I really understood that she was not interested, and she implied that I was doing something wrong, that I was not in her league basically. I hadn't even tried to initiate a private conversation.
There we go gentlemen I knew it would come up, Geez can we just have a discussion without the incel word being thrown around.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
Yes but you don’t speak for the other 4 billion women on the planet
... and have a lot of money 🤑...
covid rotted their teen brains.
Ayo.
If you think this is a Christian problem you should look at the wide consensus of males not asking out females anymore.
Reason ? I don't know I would guess confidence in one's self is really low modern day. I don't know why.
I had this problem and I ended up realizing it. And fixed it and I'm married and have kids now.
I used to be afraid of girls when I was little. Then I learned girls actually liked me in school so I ended up with girl friends, but I thought that was it. Obv it ended at that point. Then once I fully realized my problems, I said the next woman I date I will not hold back anything. I will fully have my heart and feelings on my sleeve, anything I think I will say. Everything I want to tell this woman I will and I did and we're married now for 5 years and we have a beautiful intelligent 2 year old Healthy daughter.
No I'm not saying go on one date and tell some first date woman everything you plan right out in the open there's obviously a time and place for that.
But you get my meaning