It's this underhanded way of trying to instill shame in another for daring to like something without dissecting its "flaws" the way they would. It's like the whole, "You're all sheep," but done in a "rational" demeanor.
Dude... I watch whatever the goddamn hell I want to. I have shit taste and proud of it. I'll even watch The Rise of Skywalker with gleeful abandon and gladly flip off the internet's "consensus."
And don't get me wrong. I do not want to dismiss the thought exercise of going through something you felt was lacking a certain aspect. You were hooked into a show but it doesn't feel like the ball's been rolling much. Fan works that describe how one would do a particular movie in a franchise or a season in a TV show is something that I can often indulge in.
It's when the person doing all this gets too big for their britches and shames anybody for daring to go against their opinion. It's not always in a vehement way so much as in a, "Pooh-pooh, how sad that you cannot engage in this very much flawed media with the critical intellect that I myself possess."
It's a form of gaslighting that paints pissed off fans as "irrational" for taking issue with such bad faith criticisms, ones that they counter with awfully rational points if I might add.
Simple answer I’ve found is that people like to complain, actually understand why you don’t like something takes more effort
Taking a deep dive into why I hate something very popular has been an interesting… if lonely… experience.
Truly analyzing why you dislike something is an equal examination of yourself instead of just the thing you're analyzing. The shallow criticism that makes up most online discussions doesn't include that self reflection.
100% agree for some reason people online cant fathom that people can enjoy flawed works. But on the opposite end of the spectrum I do also hate people who just cant admit that a series they like does have flaws in it and pretend it's perfect.
"Just admit the thing you like is bad!"
No, because I genuinely believe its good, and disagree with your criticisms, or at least, don't believe they're actually important enough to ruin the work.
I really hate that saying of "just admit"
I don't have to admit anything since I find that piece of art good, stop telling me what to think.
I've come across this so much with Spider-Man 2. It's frustrating.
As in you think it's good or you're on the hater side.
I really don't like the disdain insomniac showed for their playerbase by not only knowing most hated the mj and miles missions where you couldn't do anything, basically a walking and hiding simulator but literally doubling down on it and saying fuck you if you dont like it we want these shitty boring missions and immersion breaking mj power levels in there
literally saying
Except they're still garbage and completely kill the vibe and pace of the game
As in i think its good. I've had this convo a million times though. Its boring now. I really like those sections.
The game or the movie?
Insomniac game
I think people should at least be able to go “I Don’t see that issue as important but if I did then yes I can see why people wouldn’t like it”
I think demanding people “admit” something is bad is absurd but there’s way too many people who act like “it’s not a big deal to me” means anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong.
It's something said by people who hate seeing others enjoy things they dont
Yeah, I had this conversation recently. I think a great dividing point, for example, is the new Avatar movie.
Some people absolutely despise it and how much money it makes for such a basic plot.
Others love the world, environment, and “exploration” feeling they get from watching it.
YouTube has been overtaken with “Pandora bad and boring” takes but clearly it’s enjoyable enough for people to want to go see, so the best second opinion for those who disliked it is to call all those people stupid/sheep/consumers etc.
Plus, having the opinion of "I have no strong feelings one way or the other" doesn't get a lot of clicks.
To be honest, whenever someone resorts to just insulting fans of a certain thing as sheep/mindless/losers/etc. I tend to avoid engaging with them, even if I agree with their overall opinion.
They’ve already made up in their mind that anyone who likes X Media is a loser of dumb or whatever. So there’s not much of a point in trying to argue with them. Why would they listen to someone they’ve already decided is inherently wrong and has no opinions worth listening to?
It’s like a preemptive “But I have already portrayed myself as the Chad and you as the Wojack” but for media discourse. If you’ve already decided that any person who likes Avatar is a mindless consumer, why bother?
Yeah I really wish people stopped making moral judgements towards others based on a piece of media they like. This sub does it often.
That's a very annoying take, and any critic who supports it has lost the plot. You can think something is overrated, that it gets way more attention than it should...but why even get mad about it? Very silly.
But be careful that you don't fall for the extreme counter-take, where you get so scared of people judging your taste that you pre-emptively dismiss criticism as hate and snobbishness. I've seen people act like they're being bullied or harassed just because other people are discussing how a show/manga could have been better.
It honestly frustrates me more when people default to “If you hate x then you are an idiot that doesn’t understand it” since it will be used to shut down even well intentioned but heavily critical opinions of it. Both are bad but I would rather someone be a snob because they don’t like something a lot of others do rather than someone being allergic to criticism which is so important for media so we can learn from the mistakes of stuff that came before
I find defenders of shows way worse than critics. While there's always gonna be people who argue in bad faith, the defenders always lump in some opinions as hate or unjustified and like you said, they automatically try to shut down valid critique.
Eh, hater or defender, a snob is a snob. Either way, if they have valid points to make, it's critical discourse which is fine (though they can drop the attitude because it doesn't help).
What's more worrying to me is the anti-snob, who isn't the least bit concerned with making good points or actually discussing things. The ones who scoff at people discussing writing like "you think that movie has bad writing? Well it made 100 million dollars in sales so it's better than anything you like!" or "I like it, therefore it's good writing. No, I will not be discussing why, simply asserting it's objectively good."
Offense or defense for media can both come from an honest place, but I see a worrying amount of people take what they learned about opinions not being objectively wrong to mean they can never be questioned.
Oh god I can’t cope with that shit. People comparing box office earnings as a determinant of quality rather than just how well it resonated with the average “turning brain off” consumer. Which you know there’s nothing wrong not deep diving into media necessarily but let people who wanna do that, do that and actually have a discussion.
Lord knows how it's a load of crock when the likes of Alien and Blade Runner flopped in their time. Many movies we applaud today were shortchanged.
I cannot think of anyone who has argued that. Do you have any examples? Like a youtuber or something.
I mean i've seen the opposite where people who supposedly don't like something like Pluribus or find it boring have "tiktok brain" as opposed to accepting the story's pacing isn't for everyone.
While i broadly agree with this, i am going to say that there are works of fiction, few and far between as they are, where only way to enjoy them is to not engage with them critically or have some pretty terrible opinions.
That's dangerously vague.
Basically there are - at least in theory - works that exist solely as spectacle, as opposed to something you're meant to think about after it's done.
Besides a few pet peeves I deeply enjoyed season 3 of Alice in borderland and that makes the fans go mental for the exact reasons you gave
I saw that recently discussing about one of my favourite novels my one of my favourite authors (which is actually a rather obscure book), and that one Redditor insisted that the book’s politics was problematic, and then accused me of having only read it superficially when I challenged him on that (with no other arguments).
Except that I thought that it was his reading of it that was shallow, and for the only purpose of making it controversial (the book presents a complex morally gray political situation where it is not clear who is right and where every side are kind of self-serving hypocrites, and a situation that is really not resolved in the end, leaving the reader to decide whether the “protagonists” were in the right or not (and I loved that ambiguity), so it is not like you can easily deduce the author politics from it).
So I blocked the guy. If you are going to accuse an author of “problematic politics”, and your only argument for that is to claim that your opponents are too stupid/shallow to realize it, you are just being a jerk, not some “smart reader that engages with it critically”. And that is a great way to make the whole discussion toxic before it even started.
I genuinely respect you for being an open TROS fan. It takes balls to openly like something that is generally panned in a fandom especially when anything you do like about it gets shouted down regardless of how correct you are.
I’m critical of it in terms of how it could’ve worked better with what we got. Like Palpatine returning should’ve been a goal by the First Order instead of him just being there all along. Like a commentary on people who lust for “the good ol’ days” in an ironic way.
Yea people have a hard time understanding that taste is subjective, if I like something it’s because I do. I don’t need to justify it and if I do want to talk about why I love something no amount of some random guy online going “it’s bad and you’re stupid for liking it” is going to change that.
“I have shit taste and I’m proud of it”
I can’t tell what you’re trying to say here. It sounds like you agree with those people but I don’t think that’s what you meant so I’m just confused.
I think some movies are stupid and enjoy critiques of stories but it’s fine to ironically or unironically like stuff that people think is shit. As a rule of thumb just assume that for every piece of media you like, someone thinks it’s poorly written garbage. You likely have your own reasons for liking it so why would you care or feel less than just because someone else says it’s dumb? Maybe it is poorly written but even so you can have reasons you enjoy it or that it appeals to you personally.
Critiques and discussions of flaws in a work aren’t really about whether you like a film or not. That’s a different conversation from criticism and nobody should really be conflating the two.
EXACTLY.
I love all of the DCEU films, and enjoy them immensely.
Anyone who says that is crazy.
But there absolutely are things that people enjoy and turn off critical thinking for.
Like the Speed Racer movie. I enjoy it significantly, even if I recognize it has a lot of flaws, I won't address them because they detract from my enjoyment. Not everything needs to be criticized all the time.
ST season 5
And...?
No funny shit, I the guy who has been criticizing One Piece for fun, doing it for months, going to be a year soon, was called an Oda dick rider for liking One Piece. When I said as much, I still got dogpiled on despite having literal, provable evidence of the fact I’ve criticized One Piece. Whatever, nearly 200 pages of google docs wasn't enough for people.
Yes you have terrible tastes but that is your right, however, I think you probably could enjoy and would enjoy something better. but then again, who cares?
Good. That’s how it should be.
you american?
Lol can’t wait to see where this is going.
nah.