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Leader Pierre Poilievre framed the issue as 'a problem of [Mark] Carney’s leadership,' accusing the prime minister of '
So, just to be clear, it's Carney's fault, not Pierre's, that people are leaving the party Pierre leads? Is that what I'm hearing? Introspection is a glaring weakness of Pierre.
trying to manipulate his way through backroom deals to get that majority.'
Ah yes, if there is anything Pierre and his closest advisors abhor it's backroom deals....... Then again maybe backroom threats and demands not to even speak to Liberals are OK for Pierre, just not deals.
It’s giving Trump. If he ever gets elected all we’ll be hearing about is how it’s all Trudeau and Carneys fault just like Americans keep hearing about Biden.
The Liberals and Liberal voters do the same thing.
If I got a dollar for every time someone on the Canadian subs blamed a current problem on a former Conservative leader a) Mike Harris or b) Stephen Harper, I'd be a very rich man.
Not so much Harper but Harris did some generationally stupid things that we are still living with today.
The obvious one is selling the 407, but the more sinister thing he did was dismantle the public elderly care option in Ontario which earned his spot on the Rivera board (and the accompanying millions in wealth), which is where he’s been working since he left office.
People are still dying today because of Harris which is why he’s still talked about.
Harper did a lot of dumb stuff but I dont remember Trudeau even saying his name after he was elected.
Selling the 407 was a big mistake, no doubt about that.
The obvious one is selling the 407, but the more sinister thing he did was dismantle the public elderly care option in Ontario which earned his spot on the Rivera board (and the accompanying millions in wealth), which is where he’s been working since he left office.
Quebec has publicly ran elderly care and it's worse than Ontario.
The thing is, trying to bring people over to your side is kind of how a parliamentary system is supposed to work. I get the distaste for floor crossing, but that's more an issue of us trying to treat the system in a way it was not designed. I'm not going to fault a party leader for trying to entice someone to join them.
Absolutely zero credibility or integrity. Dude just constantly slings mud, the sky is absolutely always falling, everything Trudeau or Carney have ever done is awful, etc.
Conservatives that actually believe in personal responsibility are hanging their heads in shame right now. Imagine how embarrassed they must feel knowing this guy is their leader. It's not a sign of strength to blame everyone else for problems you've caused, it's a backdoor admission of profound moral weakness.
I guess we'll see how many principled Conservatives there actually are.
Poilevre can only hope to hang onto the railings and hope he can hold his caucus together until such a time as the other parties claw back some support. He is at ceiling. Embattled is very accurate. The only person who will beat Mark Carney is Mark Carney, and I suspect that it will be a gaffe with his straight forward messaging resulting in losing support in BC or QC or both. Carney likes to explain things, which is refreshing, but can also get him caught up in the weeds. You cant please everyone, all the time, and hit bullseye all the time either, and the electorate is fickle.
The polls might be close between parties. But when it comes down to Pierre or Carney at the ballot box Carney has a greater than double advantage in popularity over Pierre.
If they keep him they won't win. But if they brought in someone new and more to the center like Carney they might have a chance.
The Liberals want Pierre to stay. They most likely will get their majority. How many times do you want to lose in a row. Yes the Conservatives got a high vote share but Pierre is not liked in Canada and is holding his party back. Unless Carney does something stupid Pierre will lose again if there's an election. It would be nice to give another government a chance after all these years. But someone will cross and give Carney his majority. If that doesn't happen he will call an election and win a majority and Pierre will still not re-sign lol.
Is the party that stupid to keep on a guy that is harming its chances of governing? Liberals sure are happy about it.
At the same time, will they be able to reach ~40% mark again if they go for someone more centrist? Clearly PP has appeal within the con base, just not outside with the regular voters.
OToole arguably had a more successful election than Pierre.
How can you say that O'Toole had a more successful election that Pierre when a) PP got more share of the vote b) PP got a lot of younger voters c) under PP, the Conservatives won more seats.
I mean I do understand the criticisms of PP, but saying O'Toole had a more successful election is wrong going by virtually every metric.
Why did you respond to my comment and ask me how I could argue something and then ignore the arguments I made in my post?
First off O’Toole and Pierre’s outcome is currently exactly the same - minority Liberal government. Difference is Trudeau stayed as a minority while it’s looking like Carney will have a majority in January.
So net net Pierre is at best the same as O’Toole and at worst he will hand the Liberals a majority because of his unlikeability.
To my original point, O’Toole clawed the LPC down from a projected majority government to a minority. That’s a meaningful win.
In contrast Pierre had the tailwinds of a global movement against incumbent governments, a universal hatred for a Prime Minister never before seen in recent memory and a 30 point polling lead and turned that into an LPC minority.
As Rick Mercer just said it used to be that in politics that they only way to squander a 30 point lead is to be caught in bed with a dead woman or a live boy, but apparently people just hate Pierre more than that.
First off O’Toole and Pierre’s outcome is currently exactly the same - minority Liberal government. Difference is Trudeau stayed as a minority while it’s looking like Carney will have a majority in January.
So what? By every quantifiable metric, PP performed better than O'Toole, it's not even an apt comparison. That's like saying a hockey team that lost 5-4 in OT did just as good as a team that lost 5-0. While a loss is a loss, there was a big difference from PP losing and O'Toole losing.
So net net Pierre is at best the same as O’Toole and at worst he will hand the Liberals a majority because of his unlikeability.
PP didn't cost himself the election.
If the NDP didn't implode under Jaghmeet Singh and the NDP got their usual share of the vote, we'd have a Conservative majority. Jaghmeet Singh because of his unlikeability handed the Liberals a minority.
In contrast Pierre had the tailwinds of a global movement against incumbent governments, a universal hatred for a Prime Minister never before seen in recent memory and a 30 point polling lead and turned that into an LPC minority.
Again, if NDP voters voted to their traditional numbers and didn't abandon the NDP like they did under Singh, the results would have been a lot different.
One is coming from a life of holding some of the toughest jobs around the world, the other a lifetime of slogans and stirring dissent to gain and hold on to power, while never holding a job outside politics.
I can't imagine why Carney comes across focused and Poilievre looks less serious.
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So, just to be clear, it's Carney's fault, not Pierre's, that people are leaving the party Pierre leads? Is that what I'm hearing? Introspection is a glaring weakness of Pierre.
Ah yes, if there is anything Pierre and his closest advisors abhor it's backroom deals....... Then again maybe backroom threats and demands not to even speak to Liberals are OK for Pierre, just not deals.
Well its a problem of Carneys leadership... for Pierre that people are going from the CPC to the LPC.
Hes not wrong there overall.
Yeah he’s not wrong. The Liberals should have chosen a weaker leader that doesn’t make Poilievre look bad.
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It’s giving Trump. If he ever gets elected all we’ll be hearing about is how it’s all Trudeau and Carneys fault just like Americans keep hearing about Biden.
And he would go on a revenge spree, just like T.
1000%. He already said JT should be jailed. Like bro, move on.
The Liberals and Liberal voters do the same thing.
If I got a dollar for every time someone on the Canadian subs blamed a current problem on a former Conservative leader a) Mike Harris or b) Stephen Harper, I'd be a very rich man.
Show me one instance of Carney blaming something on Harper or Harris.
Liberal voters? Sure. But liberal party leaders? Nope.
I never wrote Carney blamed something on Harper or Harris.
Alright, trudeau then.
Or iganatieff
Or martin
Any of the recent lpc leaders.
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Not so much Harper but Harris did some generationally stupid things that we are still living with today.
The obvious one is selling the 407, but the more sinister thing he did was dismantle the public elderly care option in Ontario which earned his spot on the Rivera board (and the accompanying millions in wealth), which is where he’s been working since he left office.
People are still dying today because of Harris which is why he’s still talked about.
Harper did a lot of dumb stuff but I dont remember Trudeau even saying his name after he was elected.
Selling the 407 was a big mistake, no doubt about that.
Quebec has publicly ran elderly care and it's worse than Ontario.
The thing is, trying to bring people over to your side is kind of how a parliamentary system is supposed to work. I get the distaste for floor crossing, but that's more an issue of us trying to treat the system in a way it was not designed. I'm not going to fault a party leader for trying to entice someone to join them.
Exactly and the Liberals were only three seats away. Say what you want about the Liberals, they know how to play the game and they're good at it.
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Always be on the attack
Always someone else’s fault
Never apologize for anything
They are ok if you’re standing behind a curtain.
Poilievre was Harper's attack dog.
It's all he's ever known.
He hasn't changed a bit in 20 years. I don't understand why people think he'll change now.
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His parents fault?
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That is practically a core tenet of modern conservatism.
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Absolutely zero credibility or integrity. Dude just constantly slings mud, the sky is absolutely always falling, everything Trudeau or Carney have ever done is awful, etc.
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The conservative version of It's always Sunny in Philadelphia. But it's just a bunch of narcissistic nepobabies ordering their servants around.
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Also, the UCP exists because of a backroom deal, it's pure hypocrisy.
Conservatives that actually believe in personal responsibility are hanging their heads in shame right now. Imagine how embarrassed they must feel knowing this guy is their leader. It's not a sign of strength to blame everyone else for problems you've caused, it's a backdoor admission of profound moral weakness.
I guess we'll see how many principled Conservatives there actually are.
Poilevre can only hope to hang onto the railings and hope he can hold his caucus together until such a time as the other parties claw back some support. He is at ceiling. Embattled is very accurate. The only person who will beat Mark Carney is Mark Carney, and I suspect that it will be a gaffe with his straight forward messaging resulting in losing support in BC or QC or both. Carney likes to explain things, which is refreshing, but can also get him caught up in the weeds. You cant please everyone, all the time, and hit bullseye all the time either, and the electorate is fickle.
The polls might be close between parties. But when it comes down to Pierre or Carney at the ballot box Carney has a greater than double advantage in popularity over Pierre.
If they keep him they won't win. But if they brought in someone new and more to the center like Carney they might have a chance.
The Liberals want Pierre to stay. They most likely will get their majority. How many times do you want to lose in a row. Yes the Conservatives got a high vote share but Pierre is not liked in Canada and is holding his party back. Unless Carney does something stupid Pierre will lose again if there's an election. It would be nice to give another government a chance after all these years. But someone will cross and give Carney his majority. If that doesn't happen he will call an election and win a majority and Pierre will still not re-sign lol.
Is the party that stupid to keep on a guy that is harming its chances of governing? Liberals sure are happy about it.
At the same time, will they be able to reach ~40% mark again if they go for someone more centrist? Clearly PP has appeal within the con base, just not outside with the regular voters.
Didn't they try that with Erin O'Toole?
OToole arguably had a more successful election than Pierre.
Going into that election the LPC was projected to get a majority but OToole kept them to a minority and won the popular vote.
In contrast Pierre ‘held’ the LPC to a minority after they were projected to disintegrate as a party.
How can you say that O'Toole had a more successful election that Pierre when a) PP got more share of the vote b) PP got a lot of younger voters c) under PP, the Conservatives won more seats.
I mean I do understand the criticisms of PP, but saying O'Toole had a more successful election is wrong going by virtually every metric.
Why did you respond to my comment and ask me how I could argue something and then ignore the arguments I made in my post?
First off O’Toole and Pierre’s outcome is currently exactly the same - minority Liberal government. Difference is Trudeau stayed as a minority while it’s looking like Carney will have a majority in January.
So net net Pierre is at best the same as O’Toole and at worst he will hand the Liberals a majority because of his unlikeability.
To my original point, O’Toole clawed the LPC down from a projected majority government to a minority. That’s a meaningful win.
In contrast Pierre had the tailwinds of a global movement against incumbent governments, a universal hatred for a Prime Minister never before seen in recent memory and a 30 point polling lead and turned that into an LPC minority.
As Rick Mercer just said it used to be that in politics that they only way to squander a 30 point lead is to be caught in bed with a dead woman or a live boy, but apparently people just hate Pierre more than that.
So what? By every quantifiable metric, PP performed better than O'Toole, it's not even an apt comparison. That's like saying a hockey team that lost 5-4 in OT did just as good as a team that lost 5-0. While a loss is a loss, there was a big difference from PP losing and O'Toole losing.
PP didn't cost himself the election.
If the NDP didn't implode under Jaghmeet Singh and the NDP got their usual share of the vote, we'd have a Conservative majority. Jaghmeet Singh because of his unlikeability handed the Liberals a minority.
Again, if NDP voters voted to their traditional numbers and didn't abandon the NDP like they did under Singh, the results would have been a lot different.
One is coming from a life of holding some of the toughest jobs around the world, the other a lifetime of slogans and stirring dissent to gain and hold on to power, while never holding a job outside politics.
I can't imagine why Carney comes across focused and Poilievre looks less serious.
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