I mean, yes you do. Most of reason for making a qualifying offer is to qualify for draft pick compensation if the guy turns it down and then signs with another team. Trea Turner got a 19.6 million dollar qualifying offer in 2023. He turned that down and signed with the Phillies for 11 years, 300 million. Think the Dodgers thought he'd take the qualifying offer?
If you genuinely believe the Cubs were “shocked” he accepted it, I don’t know what to tell you. There is no indication of that either. Jed Hoyer is a lot of things, one thing he isn’t is stupid.
Matt Spiegal speculated on 670 one afternoon that Cubs were shocked he took it , and then people ran with it.
Yeah, hopefully he had a sense of the market and wasn't "shocked" that a 32 year old pitcher who doesn't have overpowering stuff and is coming off of an average season took a one year 22 million dollar deal. But I could certainly believe that he didn't expect it and/or was hoping Shota wouldn't take it.
Jed Hoyer is extremely risk averse. If there was significant downside to our offseason budget based on Shota accepting the QO, he would not have offered it.
That’s just not true. 18 players out of 157 have accepted QOs since they became an option, teams usually offer it to either get a free pick, or resign the player for cheaper. It’s pretty clear they misread the market.
This year more people accepted but this year is a weird market because of the CBA ending and the specific players who accepted have some issues. I don’t think the Cubs misread the market. If they could have offered him a $22m deal for just 1 year anyways they probably would. The draft pick you get for a QO is extremely inconsequential, and they already are likely to let Tucker walk.
The only source of them being surprised was Matt spiegal just speculating on his show. They 100% knew there was a possibility he would accept it after the year he had. We can complain about Jed with a lot of things, one thing he isn’t is stupid.
We’ll never truly know, but my gut tells me Hoyer did the QO for the draft pick, fully believing Shota would take a multi yr offer elsewhere. I don’t think Shota’s market was robust, to say the least. It backfired, but I don’t Hoyer is too upset to get a quality guy, beloved in the clubhouse,motivated for bounce back season and new contract, on a one yr deal. Especially with SP prices.
No shot. He gave him the qualifying offer knowing it’s a possibility. Being stunned by it would be baseball malpractice. They were always okay with him at 1 year 22 mil
I’d say Hoyer knew Shoto might sign it. He also knows ricketts is never going to let him sign a premier free agent so I’m sure Hoyer is fine with Shoto.
Actually, many teams operate thinking players they offer the Qualifying Offer won't accept. Did the Cubs think Tucker would accept. They were certainly hoping Shota wouldn't and they lost that gamble.
Well yeah they operate knowing they won’t but would be thrilled if they did accept it. Teams do not operate handing them out and then being shocked and unhappy when it’s accepted.and “certainly” you’re just making things up.
They weren't happy Shota accepted the QO. They wanted the draft compensation and to save money for upgrade. Nothing against Shota personally, but the future value doesn't look very promising.
It's not speculation at all. They decided not to opt in on what would've been a team friendly contract for a starting pitcher. They've been linked to multiple starting pitchers on the market. Clearly they wanted to upgrade and they were hoping he would go out and find a team willing to pay him more guaranteed than the QO. He talked with his agent and they didn't believe a better deal was out there so he took the QO. It's quite logical.
Counting a QO shouldn't even count in the calculation. It came as a contract the Cubs didn't really negotiate, on the back of a declined option. It's a very generous inclusion, IMO.
No, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they don't go higher. I'm guessing at least one of Tucker, Bichette, Valdez, and Suarez will go to a team not on this list, and each of those contracts will likely dwarf whatever the Cubs spend.
No, but not expecting any big moves. Expect a short term starting vet, another bullpen piece, and maybe a low end hitter. Maybe Jed swings in a trade as well. Then he’ll say we are confident this group can win.
another offseason of Jed doing his job by protecting Tom’s wallet. he will put again an ok team with the hope that everyone has a career year…. But the reality is that the cubs are top 3 in revenue but spend less and less every year. And now even less than the Soxs. Sad.
This ownership is a joke it’s the same freaking thing every offseason and trade deadline why u think Epstein left cubs with one year left on his contract
Yeah they’ve been concentrating on the bullpen which is the biggest issue considering it was nonexistent aside from Palencia.
If the Cubs are truly in on Imai, we won’t know until obviously he signs and if it’s not with the cubs then they pivot for a SP trade hopefully and then sign Bregman. Third base is the least of their concerns right now but it’s def a priority. And it’s likely a Shaw package hopefully for SP.
Let's be real, if they don't get Imai they're just gonna tier down to Gallen and call it a day. Zero chance they trade Shaw, as far as Ricketts is concerned he's the new face of the franchise
Tbf I think getting Galen isn’t the worst option. You could certainly do worse. If Bregman gets the contract he wants from us then Shaw definitely becomes expendable especially if Hoerner gets an extension.
Shaw has no chance at being the face of the franchise. That is PCA’s.
That’s not what I said. If Gallen is right, and if the Cubs think they can fix him and they get him on a discount? Then yeah how can you not be happy with that? He throws strikes, he’s a cy young talent. I mean you can absolutely do worse and that’s what I said.
Agreed, but at that point, just commit to the bit of being cheap asses and don't sign anyone. All you're getting is ANOTHER mediocre pitcher, and they'll use his multi-year contract to justify not signing better oitchers in future seasons, once Imanaga and Taillon's deals expire and Boyd likely declines his option.
Well, it'll probably be another one of those 1+1 deals where a good season means he walks and a bad season means the Cubs are tied to an overpriced, mediocre pitcher for an extra season and use it to not spend.
Kinda sad that "focusing" amounts to another round of rentals though. It's never being done in a way that makes the bullpen feel stable, and there are probably at least 6 relievers currently signed who will make more thna the entire Cubs bullpen next season.
That's true when you consider a single season the biggest deal ever and only dabble in mediocre relievers.
You can find a lot of good relievers who sustain success over many years, but people take a down year and determine it sullies the player as a whole and disregards the value of having a good bullpen. The Cubs take this logic to the extreme and only take high-risk, low-cost options.
Over the past 5 seasons, there are 24 relievers who have put up 200+ innings with an ERA of 3.00 or lower. But you'll look at Devin Williams last year, see his one bad ERA with still-great peripherals, and say "relievers aren't worth investing," even as he's elite in every other season.
And most of that is Shota
Which they didn't think he'd accept.
The Cubs need to spend more yes. But that story was a joke. You don’t give out qualifying offers thinking they won’t accept.
I mean, yes you do. Most of reason for making a qualifying offer is to qualify for draft pick compensation if the guy turns it down and then signs with another team. Trea Turner got a 19.6 million dollar qualifying offer in 2023. He turned that down and signed with the Phillies for 11 years, 300 million. Think the Dodgers thought he'd take the qualifying offer?
If you genuinely believe the Cubs were “shocked” he accepted it, I don’t know what to tell you. There is no indication of that either. Jed Hoyer is a lot of things, one thing he isn’t is stupid.
Matt Spiegal speculated on 670 one afternoon that Cubs were shocked he took it , and then people ran with it.
Yeah I think the Cubs were perfectly happy to get Shota for 1/$22m. They just didn't want the extra two years at a comparable price
I do worry however that Shota coming back was the excuse they needed not to spend up for Cease/Imai/Suarez
I don’t think Jed was shocked, but I think the Cubs were fine with it either way. Either cubs got shota back for 1 year or Cubs got a comp pick.
ROFL he deserves an Oscar then, because he's had me totally convinced!
Yeah, hopefully he had a sense of the market and wasn't "shocked" that a 32 year old pitcher who doesn't have overpowering stuff and is coming off of an average season took a one year 22 million dollar deal. But I could certainly believe that he didn't expect it and/or was hoping Shota wouldn't take it.
I love Shota but his market wouldnt be any where near what Turner had that year.
If you want to get pedantic, what they mean is "you dont offer a QO to someone you wouldnt love to sign it".
The Dodgers wouldve been partying all night if Trea Turner signed that QO.
So no, you dont offer a QO and then if they sign it go "oh fuck".
Jed Hoyer is extremely risk averse. If there was significant downside to our offseason budget based on Shota accepting the QO, he would not have offered it.
That’s just not true. 18 players out of 157 have accepted QOs since they became an option, teams usually offer it to either get a free pick, or resign the player for cheaper. It’s pretty clear they misread the market.
This year more people accepted but this year is a weird market because of the CBA ending and the specific players who accepted have some issues. I don’t think the Cubs misread the market. If they could have offered him a $22m deal for just 1 year anyways they probably would. The draft pick you get for a QO is extremely inconsequential, and they already are likely to let Tucker walk.
The only source of them being surprised was Matt spiegal just speculating on his show. They 100% knew there was a possibility he would accept it after the year he had. We can complain about Jed with a lot of things, one thing he isn’t is stupid.
We’ll never truly know, but my gut tells me Hoyer did the QO for the draft pick, fully believing Shota would take a multi yr offer elsewhere. I don’t think Shota’s market was robust, to say the least. It backfired, but I don’t Hoyer is too upset to get a quality guy, beloved in the clubhouse,motivated for bounce back season and new contract, on a one yr deal. Especially with SP prices.
No shot. He gave him the qualifying offer knowing it’s a possibility. Being stunned by it would be baseball malpractice. They were always okay with him at 1 year 22 mil
Could have fooled me with how much he seemed to be tipping pitches, lol.
I’d say Hoyer knew Shoto might sign it. He also knows ricketts is never going to let him sign a premier free agent so I’m sure Hoyer is fine with Shoto.
Actually, many teams operate thinking players they offer the Qualifying Offer won't accept. Did the Cubs think Tucker would accept. They were certainly hoping Shota wouldn't and they lost that gamble.
Well yeah they operate knowing they won’t but would be thrilled if they did accept it. Teams do not operate handing them out and then being shocked and unhappy when it’s accepted.and “certainly” you’re just making things up.
They weren't happy Shota accepted the QO. They wanted the draft compensation and to save money for upgrade. Nothing against Shota personally, but the future value doesn't look very promising.
You do not know that. That’s all speculation. Shota on a one year deal is good.
It's not speculation at all. They decided not to opt in on what would've been a team friendly contract for a starting pitcher. They've been linked to multiple starting pitchers on the market. Clearly they wanted to upgrade and they were hoping he would go out and find a team willing to pay him more guaranteed than the QO. He talked with his agent and they didn't believe a better deal was out there so he took the QO. It's quite logical.
No it’s not. You don’t hand out QOs if you are scared they will take it. It affects nothing and Jed was mkt shocked. He’s not a moron.
Well certainly had me fooled, then.
That’s probably not true.
evidence?
Why not?
Counting a QO shouldn't even count in the calculation. It came as a contract the Cubs didn't really negotiate, on the back of a declined option. It's a very generous inclusion, IMO.
Toronto being at the top of this list is interesting
It's total contract size, nothing annualized, so Cease is most of that
Gawdamn I completely forgot Cease signed with Toronto lmao
It's hilarious how tuning out of Hot Stove stuff (for the sake of my own sanity) makes me feel like I've lived in a box lol
Does anyone think the Cubs are done yet?
They have another ~$40m left for 2026 before the CBT. I believe they want to spend that on Imai and/or a bat.
No.
I hope not.
No, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they don't go higher. I'm guessing at least one of Tucker, Bichette, Valdez, and Suarez will go to a team not on this list, and each of those contracts will likely dwarf whatever the Cubs spend.
No, but not expecting any big moves. Expect a short term starting vet, another bullpen piece, and maybe a low end hitter. Maybe Jed swings in a trade as well. Then he’ll say we are confident this group can win.
Yes
Yep. That Shota contract killed it.😆
To be fair, most of the top free agents haven't signed yet. Not that I think we will be doing much of anything unfortunately. Holding out hope though
I was gonna say, it’s December lol
And yet everyone from this subreddit to 670, year in and year out, chooses to defend Tom, his bank account, and his petite payroll.
And his politics
And Jed!
Who cares, there is 90+ days left of the off season
Whoa whoa whoa, slow down, Jed!
another offseason of Jed doing his job by protecting Tom’s wallet. he will put again an ok team with the hope that everyone has a career year…. But the reality is that the cubs are top 3 in revenue but spend less and less every year. And now even less than the Soxs. Sad.
This ownership is a joke it’s the same freaking thing every offseason and trade deadline why u think Epstein left cubs with one year left on his contract
Yes, but we are second in the central division, baby!
Now do percent of revenue spent on the roster
The Chicago way. Middle of the pack at all times
Monsters of the Middle Ground
Hilarious to think the Yankees are below the Cubs on this list although Im sure that will change
Yanks are already high on the payroll list though. Cubs aren’t
It's also early in the offseason. I'm sure the Yankees are going to make some kind of blockbuster move.
Still early for the Cubs too, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were gun shy again for another offseason
Actually, their owner has been making very Ricketts-esque comments about breaking even, so amusingly they actually might not, lol.
This is where Midway comes from.
I thought it came from the fact that Chicago is in the midwest, lol.
Can someone break this down? Because sure doesn’t feel like they spent this much. Did they include Shota? Because in my mind that doesn’t count.
Yes includes Shota
Then this number is bull shit. They’ve only spent $16M.
Don't eat the food at WF. It's terrible. Otherwise great experience
Cubs are the only MLB team with 3 rivalries - cards, brewers and Sox
Small market huh?
This almost makes me want mlb to have a salary cap so Rickets will spend the necessary money. Almost.
We're Pittsburgh now.
If we end up spending less than the White Sox that’s just unforgivable.
And most of that was Shota lol
It’s not always how much you spend, but how you spend it if you get quality people.
Anyone remember Milton Bradley. I think they are still paying him
The board game company?
Yeah, and the only hitter they've signed after losing Kyle Tucker is Tyler Austin.
To be fair, they haven't actually lost Tucker yet, lol.
Nobody is arguing that you shouldn't spend money well, but people are genuinely arguing that you don't need to spend major market money at all
Yeah they’ve been concentrating on the bullpen which is the biggest issue considering it was nonexistent aside from Palencia.
If the Cubs are truly in on Imai, we won’t know until obviously he signs and if it’s not with the cubs then they pivot for a SP trade hopefully and then sign Bregman. Third base is the least of their concerns right now but it’s def a priority. And it’s likely a Shaw package hopefully for SP.
Ideally they would get Imai and Bregman.
Let's be real, if they don't get Imai they're just gonna tier down to Gallen and call it a day. Zero chance they trade Shaw, as far as Ricketts is concerned he's the new face of the franchise
Tbf I think getting Galen isn’t the worst option. You could certainly do worse. If Bregman gets the contract he wants from us then Shaw definitely becomes expendable especially if Hoerner gets an extension.
Shaw has no chance at being the face of the franchise. That is PCA’s.
You'd be happy with the current signings plus Gallen as a successful off-season?
I didn't say Shaw actually is, I said Ricketts thinks he should be
That’s not what I said. If Gallen is right, and if the Cubs think they can fix him and they get him on a discount? Then yeah how can you not be happy with that? He throws strikes, he’s a cy young talent. I mean you can absolutely do worse and that’s what I said.
Yeah that's why I asked if you would. If you would have said that I wouldn't have had to ask
If you're willing to go with Gallen, why even bother with Gallen? Between Imanaga, Taillon, Assad, and Rea, they have enough Gallen-tier options.
2026 Gallen is probably comparable to Shota and almost certainly better than anyone else on that list
I'm not saying I like it, I'm saying that's what I suspect they're planning
Agreed, but at that point, just commit to the bit of being cheap asses and don't sign anyone. All you're getting is ANOTHER mediocre pitcher, and they'll use his multi-year contract to justify not signing better oitchers in future seasons, once Imanaga and Taillon's deals expire and Boyd likely declines his option.
Realistically Gallen probably gets a two year deal and if 2027 doesn't happen it's effectively a one year deal
Well, it'll probably be another one of those 1+1 deals where a good season means he walks and a bad season means the Cubs are tied to an overpriced, mediocre pitcher for an extra season and use it to not spend.
Kinda sad that "focusing" amounts to another round of rentals though. It's never being done in a way that makes the bullpen feel stable, and there are probably at least 6 relievers currently signed who will make more thna the entire Cubs bullpen next season.
Bullpens aren’t ever stable. The position of a relief pitcher is incredibly volatile.
That's true when you consider a single season the biggest deal ever and only dabble in mediocre relievers.
You can find a lot of good relievers who sustain success over many years, but people take a down year and determine it sullies the player as a whole and disregards the value of having a good bullpen. The Cubs take this logic to the extreme and only take high-risk, low-cost options.
Over the past 5 seasons, there are 24 relievers who have put up 200+ innings with an ERA of 3.00 or lower. But you'll look at Devin Williams last year, see his one bad ERA with still-great peripherals, and say "relievers aren't worth investing," even as he's elite in every other season.
I mean why change most of our roster when it did pretty well last year?
Well, that whole "Kyle Tucker and the entire bullpen just left" might be a reason.
Not after the all star break
https://preview.redd.it/e40ee4est79g1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e10f30ab08be88efaf83195689a2f1b6b4118c2b
Higher than what I thought. I had them 19th.
Pathetic
The offseason isn’t about spending Tom Ricketts’ money. It’s about allocating resources where they’re needed.
...which requires Ricketts spending money.
....on SuperPACs
Why do you have a Reds banner?
I like Votto.