Well, it finally happened, my father (78) had a freak out the day after Christmas and ruined the holiday for everyone. We were eating on an outdoor table at a whole foods, and my child (9 yrs old) was bottle flipping at another table. Mind you, no one was around, just us.
All of a sudden my father got up, told my son to stop, and that he was being a bad citizen by not respecting others. My wife stepped in and let my father know that she's got this and turned to our son to ask him to stop.
He got pissed and told her to shut up, and when she stood up for herself, he got in her face and told her he was superior to her. Then stood over her trying to intimidate her.
This whole time, I'm in the store grabbing some food and my wife calls me to tell me what happened. I leave my cart (sorry to the workers who found it and had to put it all away) and rush outside. I meet my mom on the way out and she's beside herself.
I tell me wife to take the kids and go to the car, and then I confront my father. He starts by saying my "little shit" of a son was disrespectful and that my "bitch of a wife" doesn't have any right to tell him what to do.
I stayed very calm throughout this whole thing, knowing that my wife and kids were watching me from the car. He said he won't visit our home if this is how he is treated. Anyways, he and I had a back and forth for a while, all while others were watching. He was yelling so we started to gather a small crowd.
Today we were meeting extended family for lunch, and he and my mom show up. He acts like nothing happened, and my mom told my wife that she should apologize to him. My wife did nothing wrong, and is expected to bow down to him. He didn't say a word to either of my kids or my wife.
I still can't believe he said those things to my wife, but even more, he did it in front of my children. They are leaving to head home tomorrow. But they are leaving with this hanging over our heads. Both my children have said to me independently today that they don't like him saying those things to their mom.
He won't be invited over again, and he's willing to die on this hill. His grandkid flipping a water bottle is all it takes for him to ruin any relationship he has with them.
Edit: grammatical fixes. I was writing this while fuming.
Edit 2: wow, I didn't imagine this would blow up like it has. Thank you for all the thoughts and suggestions. There are a few recurring questions:
Dementia: this is a real possibility. He had open heart surgery a few years ago and it has caused his short term memory to be really bad. I've just assumed that some of his memory issues were related to this, but the 0-60 freak out had me questioning it this is dementia as has been pointed out by many of you.
Some have asked why I took my family to the luncheon with extended family yesterday, and the answer is that my parents said they were leaving early to go back home and not attend the luncheon. (They live 10 hours from here by car). I assumed it would be safe to go. Had I known they were going to the luncheon I wouldn't have gone or brought my family.
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He should not be around your children at all, and quite frankly, neither should your mother.
His wife shouldn't have to endure them, either. He physically intimidated her or, at the very least, tried.
I’m gonna take a wild guess and say it’s not a first for her. He’s probably declining. It sounds like dementia is a possibility or some other medical issue. If that isn’t the issue he’s just an asshole and no one needs around him.
Agreed. It may be time for a geriatric neurology appointment, at the very least to assess him for competence to operate a vehicle. It sounds like this is not characteristic behavior for him, which Is such a red flag.
It truly is. Lashing out, in that 0-60 fashion, is a common sign, along with getting defensive about it. Everything is viewed as a personal attack.
If your parent or grandparent exhibits sudden personality changes and forgetfulness, it's time for an assessment.
If my mother ever had a problem with my beau I would fucking unleash on her. Also with every man I've ever dated
She has no right to judge since she had kids with my dad hah!
But I also applaud this lady who tried to deal with it. I would step up and do that.
Edit been ,married sixteen years now
They shouldn’t be around the mother/MIL either with her response.
She’s either brainwashed and unsavable, or she’s too intimidated to be an ethical human and decent mother in which case she needs to leave her husband and let him destroy his own life instead of drowning with him.
Anyone that says you should apologize to someone being abusive has lost the plot and their mind, and if you can’t reasonably help them back on track you can’t allow them to pull you off it with them.
This would be a relationship ender for sure. Doesn't seem like a loss
Your kid's nine and already a bigger person than him. Take pride in that.
Thanks, that's a positive way to look at it
Be specific, and use his own words.
"You threw a public temper tantrum over a bottle. My son took me aside and said he didn't like it. You aren't even superior to a 9-year-old boy."
Word brother. So sorry man. It's crazy how strong the Kool-aid is!!! Please get your family some counseling. It's crazy how much kids will internalize anything and every form of trauma.
Be sure to tell him so. He’ll like that.
Yeah and let your son know what a great young man he is for this view
Just curious, why do you mean by bottle flipping? I am not entirely sure what you mean by that.
Flipping a partially filled water bottle until it lands vertically.
Your father is so sensitive and emotional.
You should make sure he knows those exact words. And throw in how illogical he is. I’m sure he’ll blow a fuse over that.
I’m proud of you for standing up for your wife and kids
That gif is epic by the way lol
My Mom said some horrible things to my wife in front of my daughter while I was at work. I asked the wife and daughter what happened. My daughter never spoke with her again. I never questioned her on her decision as I deemed it entirely appropriate.
Don’t you dare let your wife apologize to your POS father. It is not his place to correct your son nor to abuse your wife.
Frankly I am enraged on your wife’s behalf.
In your shoes, I’d completely cut contact with your parents. Your father has nuked the relationship and deserves serious consequences.
Also, take it from a voice of experience - it is better for kids to have no grandparents than to have shitty, abusive ones.
My wife stood up for herself with my Mom, but it was only after the luncheon that I found out about it. And yes, I told her she had nothing to apologize for.
I'm going no contact, which will be better for all of us. And my kids deserve to have family that respect them.
I have to ask, is this outside of his normal behavior? A lot of redditors are always jumping on the no-contact train but, I am curious if this may be a sign of dementia setting in. I wonder if he has always been quick to temper or if it’s a recent development. I wonder if your mother trying to smooth over his behavior is a common theme throughout your life or is she kind of realizing that something is off and trying to be peacemaker in a misguided manner.
The no contact is temporary.
He's had a temper, but never like this, and never to the degree that she had to feel like she needs to step in. I'm just as surprised she said that to my wife.
His short term memory is starting to go, so yeah, dementia is starting to set in.
My mom is in the later stages of Alzheimer’s and while nothing like this ever happened… There were definitely some instances of uncontrolled emotion and temper that I observed. It could definitely be a part of that.. if he’s in the early stages there are drugs that can treat that and slow its progression.
I agree though I was really enraged on your wife’s behalf… What bullshit. I think you handled it like a champ
Edit: changed “stop it from getting worse” to “slow its progression”, this is what i meant but i implied it can ve stopped from getting worse which it cannot, as pointed out
I agree but the problem here is actually getting him to go to the doctor and get checked out. He totally might be getting mental problems in his age. And then taking his meds regularly. But that doesn't mean he can't apologize. He could chose joy and love but will go to his grave thinking hes right.
But see that makes too much sense. If it’s dementia all bets are off. Apologies won’t come because they no longer comprehend things like nuance and aggressive behavior and… all of it. It’s all just skewed. I’m so sorry.
OP did say the NC is not permanent so I do hope things get better for him. Seems like he is doing the best in this bad situation.
I feel like the general public doesn't truly grasp what dementia is, until they watch a family member up close going through it. You can't really "hold" a dementia patient "accountable". They're not, in fact, accountable, they're demented...
Yep. Exactly. Unless your one healthcare or affected by dementia there’s no way to really know how to deal with it. Everyone re invents the wheel like i did when it happens.
We google first, then we we talk to doctors we get advice from others.. but at the beginning it’s like… indescribably weird to watch a person change so much
It's really awful but dementia patients will treat their caretakers like crap because they have no control anymore. You can set boundaries to help yourself cope with the situation, but you won't change their behavior or receive an apology. You have to think of them like a 0-3 y/o
That explains Trump well
This is of course separate from OPs problem (I’m still mad at how he treated OPs wife and son) but you’re right. The mental changes that take place make people really resistant to getting help
In my case I was lucky (if you can call it that) my mom got to the point where she asked for help. She participated as much as she could in selling her condo, her car, and picking a treatment facility.
She’s much worse now and in a memory care unit. When I see her I remind her who I am and I think(?) she believes me. It sucks.
The person who was my mom is really gone.
Blah sorry for the off track comment :-(
Dementia treatments can only slow the progression, not stop it at present.
Yes that is correct.
Ok. Another commenter stated that your father needs to see a doctor and I totally agree. If it is dementia, then sadly things will progressively get worse but, can be slowed with proper treatment and attention. A family member losing control of their thoughts and emotions is tricky territory to navigate. Remember that your mother is the person that actually has to live with him and she may be experiencing abuse that she can’t admit to her children. Maybe you should try and have a serious conversation with her.
You might want to talk to your mother first and get the inside baseball info. Her asking for an apology, while it seems completely outrageous at face value, may be her way of dealing with him daily with these kinds of outbursts. maybe that’s what she’s found is a short term remedy
I'm going through this with a parent. It doesn't take much of anything to set the rage off. The mood shift is so fast you don't see it coming. It is maddening. Between my sibling and myself, we know it's cognitive. This is my 3rd go round with that monster of a disease. My parent "showboats" at doctor appointments, so my sibling now attends to keep the facts of the decline straight since our parent swears everything is fine. They also had to take over bill paying.Thanksgiving was one long screaming match over control of cooking the meal. We put our foot down and took over the menu for Christmas dinner between us.
When things cool down, speak to your mom about this. If he's like this on a visit, she sees it every day. If he's speaking like this to your wife and son, imagine how he's talking to your mother. If your mom says he's gotten worse, she is in survival mode. You need to determine if he could escalate to physical violence because clearly he's verbally abusive. Decline can come on very, very fast.
I used to work in aged care, not as a medical professional but I dealt with the residents of a care home, day in, day out.
This sounds so much like dementia. Particularly in men, I used to see irrational anger/temper like this. Your mom's reaction makes sense, she doesn't want to disagree with her husband (and aggravate him further), so denying his wrongdoing and blaming your wife means that she also avoids a tough conversation about his mental decline too. So she's pressuring your wife to take the blame, to avoid rocking the boat. It's easier for her to be in denial and avoid conflict.
She doesn't realise that this is just a bandaid solution. Things likely won't get better, his irrational temper won't magically disappear, no matter how often she "smooths things over".
We see that a lot at work. It's an active living home. The residents have to able to look after themselves with minimal assistance. Some of them still drive and have outside hobbies and interests. They slowly decline, stop dressing in clean clothes, become withdrawn or pretend that they understand when clearly they don't. At mealtimes they either just point at something on the menu or order the same thing every time because that's what they remember. Some remain sweethearts and others lash out in anger because they know something isn't right. A world renowned resident went from having people listen to their every word to being told they had to wait a few minutes for someone to escort them back to their room. They take the transition very badly. Eventually they move on to a higher level of care facility. It's sad but it's absolutely necessary to rule out dementia or health issues because he's going to get angry at the wrong person and end up in a bad situation.
Keep him away from your kids until he’s under better control, though. Even if it’s “not his fault”, it’s still traumatic for the kids, who are even less at fault.
This is gonna seem weird - do you have siblings who could recommend that your dad get checked for a UTI. Seniors get them frequently, and they can cause dementia type symptoms and personality changes.
Give your mother a tiny bit of grace…though consider a conversation with her. She is not thinking long term. She is thinking she has to go home and live with this angry man and is misguided in feeling your wife’s apology will make a difference.
The problem is the likely scenario is that at some point in the future your mother will be alone (or not quite yet) and need help and have a very hard time finding it because she has ostracized everyone who may have been willing to assist.
It could even be something as simple as a UTI. That can cause their personality to completely flip. I used to help care for a gentleman whose UTI's I could pretty much diagnose myself, because he was nice to me when he had one and a complete a hole when he didn't
Having a UTI made him more agreeable? Ooof
Yes! It was bizarre. He was a relatively young paraplegic. He HATED being in a nursing home, hated having his blood drawn, hated life, hated me...unless he had a UTI, then he was all smiles and sunshine
I have to agree on this. Something similar happened with my elderly father several years back. My son was getting picked on by one of his cousins and was sulking by himself in a bad mood. My dad (grandpa) went over to ask him what was wrong. Well being a small child not knowing how to express his feelings and often just shuts down. He didn’t want to talk and turned his back to my dad. My dad grabbed him by the elbow and reemed my 6 year old about disrespect. I stepped in and broke it up asking “what the hell dad?” We left shortly after. My dad, then called and left a lengthy message about disrespect and my poor parenting. Very out of character for him.
We went low contact about 6 months. Then my dad attempted suicide (again very out of character) and went into a catatonic state. After 4 months in the hospital/mental institution. We found out he has dementia. I don’t recall what type, but his brain chemistry was all scrambled causing behavior changes.
Cut to today, dad is a shell of his former self. Can’t have any deeper conversations with him than how’s the weather or that local sports team because he gets to confused. He sleeps about 18 hours a day and what time he is awake is in the recliner staring at the tv. He’s probably a year away from being put in a nursing home because my mom won’t be able to keep up with caregiving. It’s sad.
If this is out of character, OP; I would push for some medical exams.
Have a friend who is going through the same thing with her FIL and he had early stage dementia. My advice was to keep her children away. His son can visit him but you don’t want your children subjected to that. And you don’t want their memories of him to be that.
Hats off to you for this comment - the only reasonable comment on this thread.
Hey Reddit - grow the fuck up on No Contact bullshit. We’re adults - this is family - and you better put a ton of effort before pulling the No Contact card.
Hey - OP - it sounds like your father could have a serious health issue. And it sounds like your mother doesn’t know how to manage it.
So it sounds like you need to:
Inform other family members and get their feedback on his behavior
Have a private conversation with your mother about it as she’s probably in denial but had to defend your father like a loyal wife would do as he demanded and requested and but it likely embarrassed
Talk to your father in private
Not listen to people on Reddit who are reactionary little fucks and who think removing people from their life as the go to move is acceptable.
You all need to stop be fake therapists and learn what a real therapist would suggest.
Boomers can be and often act like complete and total asshole - this is why I’m on the sub. But you all need to recognize the serious signs of dementia of a loved one and take a step back. The problem with the boomers is learning to sift through the ones who are still there and just innately assholes versus the ones who lost it but are good people struggling with aging.
I’m not making any excuses for your Dad but if he doesn’t have a long history of being a dick then you need to recognize an acute episode and act as if this is illness not just a Fool moment.
I had the same exact thoughts
My parents, especially my father was a jerk, and I put up with it. When he started directing that towards my kids, that was it I haven’t spoken to him since. Your son did NOTHING wrong and I hope they realize that none of this is their fault.
Thank God. I experienced something very similar and my husband didn't say a word to his parents. I haven't felt truly safe since and our relationship has suffered for it.
I’m no contact with my in-laws and my daughter is much better off without them.
One of the best things my parents ever did was move 1,949 miles away from my dad’s family. Limited contact with those crazies was definitely for the best.
“When/Then” his ass
“When you are ready to behave in a respectful manner towards me and my family, Then we can continue our relationship. I will be waiting for you to make these changes”
The ball is in his court, but this has got to be the hill YOU die on.
Like Ms Lauryn Hill says: “ Respect is just the minimum”
This is exactly why I never knew my dad's parents. What I do remember of them from...hell, maybe the age of 3 or 4...was them being horribly verbally abusive to my mother.
Meanwhile, we stayed close to my mom's parents because, well, they weren't raging assholes.
My paternal grandmother was incredibly abusive to just me and my mom. She was fine with all my other siblings. I remember my dad holding my hand one day and telling me I never had to visit her again. He stopped visiting her after that and didn't attend her funeral. I think he just hit his limit one day when she was particularly abusive towards me.
Iagree with this, too many people will put up with abusive / controlling parents because of that fact they are simply ‘the parent’, that does not qualify anyone to treat you like crap
I’m so sorry your family went through that abuse.
Thank you. My sister and I have been talking about how to deal with this situation.
He needs to be seen by a doctor
This sounds like sunsetting.
My grandmother used to get so angry when it was that time of day.
What time of day was his outburst at your kid?
If he's been like this for a while, your mom may be covering for him.
This should be higher up. I also saw another commenter mention UTIs, which is also a possibility. Happened to my grandmother’s husband. Absolutely flew off the handle one evening about a kid sitting in his chair at the dinner table. Next morning didn’t even mention it. Turns out he had a real bad UTI. I had never heard of that symptom before that event.
Seconding this. My "mom" sometimes flies off the handle particularly badly when she has UTI flare-ups.
She also refuses to go to doctors, or take a cranberry supplement to control it, just occasionally drinks some sweetened cranberry juice which isn't nearly a high enough dose IMO, but she never has and never will listen to me.
This was mid afternoon when it all went down. I've never heard of the whole sunsetting thing. I'll look into it.
It’s actually called sundowning if you want to look it up. I also second the UTI thing. I used to work in aged care and the moment one of my residents started acting unusual, they got a pee test. As you get older, UTIs can really fuck with your cognition.
Or a new medication. My partner's dad once walked into the kitchen with just a t-shirt on. It turned out his new medication wasn't right for him.
I worked at a psych hospital in the gero-psych floor as an RN. We treated dementia patients and the elderly that had lifelong mental health diagnoses. A lot of our patients came to us because of delirium due to UTIs. One of the first labs ran was a UA. We also assessed their bowels first thing as well because constipation made many dementia patients aggressive. A good chunk of our patients were back to status quo after fixing the UTI or clearing their bowels. The rest just needed med adjustments because of the advancement of their conditions. I have seen the real world consequences of UTIs and constipation on the cognition of the elderly. BTW, UTIs can quickly become fatal in the elderly if untreated.
Tbf, if I were constipated and I couldn’t tell anyone about it, I’d probably be aggressive too 🤣 It’s wild how body processes can affect each other.
That’s what I always told the patient care techs. Be nice because you’d be pretty pissy too if you were plugged up.
Dementia.
It really sounds like that. Now, at that time of day, maybe it's not sunsetting. ...but it sure sounds like that's what's going on. He needs to be evaluated.
It's all the memory. It's possible that he doesn't remember the event at all.
Please consider this- your kids are watching & learning how you treat this “old person” so be thoughtful about your choices. Don’t jump to conclusions. Grandpa’s behavior was wrong. If it’s out of character- investigate WHY. Kids are observing throughout this process. If he heeds help (aging/dementia) and you cut him off they will remember this. You’re modeling how they will treat you in your future. Model lovingly.
This is an old I believe Asian fable, I'm paraphrasing. An older grandpa lived with his son and family. When he died his son was packing up his things and put an old battered bowl in a box to throw away. His son took it out of the box. His father asked him why. His son said, "I will save it for you when you are old."
I’ve heard that fable/story. In the story they gave dad a bowl & spoon only because he kept dropping food on the floor when using a fork. They were disgusted by this and moved him to a corner alone.
My experience was different. I grew up in a household, where all the grandparents and great aunts and uncles came to live and die with us. We had a big house and could absorb them into our space. At one point there were 11 people living in our home with my mom and dad and three older brothers. I personally watched my parents take care of my aging great aunt with dementia. Then her husband. I was nine when I found my grandmother(dad’s mom) dead in her bed (natural causes) and her husband (grandpa) had died in a hotel after binge drinking. He was forbidden to come to our house if he had been drinking. Then my other great aunt had multiple strokes. I watched my mom do physical therapy with her every day multiple times a day, helping her learn to walk again. And all of that was very frustrating for my mother. She tried not to let us see her cry. Then her mother fell and broke a hip that was grandma. She was finally 97 when she passed away after having both legs amputated from diabetes. Caring for all of those people in our home was a huge commitment and done with love. Everything wasn’t always peachy perfect and there was a lot of emotion. But it also taught all of us young people that you take care of Family. You don’t throw them away or push them off to a corner. And when the time comes that you need professional help you get it. The time came for my mom - she couldn’t do it anymore. That’s when my great aunt went into a home because they were nurses trained to help them.
Set a good thorough example. Do unto others.
It's probably a story across other cultures. One version I read had the fork/spoon and isolation. Another had the old grandma scavenging in the kitchen for scraps because she wasn't given enough food because she old and didn't need it.
It's lovely that your parents modeled taking care of family. I know caretaking is exhausting, phsyichaly, mentally and emotionaly. My MIL took care of her husband for almost 10 years as he developed Parkinsons. The kids helped but she did the bulk of the work out of love for someone who gave her a wonderful life. He traveled a lot and always took her with him whenever possible. She was the only SAHM who went on trips with him and this was very unusual back in the 50s.
I understand rough family dynamics….
But if someone called a significant other a bitch like that we would not be able to attend the same family gatherings for a good while.
Like they would not be allowed in the house.
Is there a power dynamic where you need to put up with this.
Right? My jaw dropped when they went from calling her degrading names, to them all gathered again? How did that happen?
If I was called his bitch of a wife, I would assume there would be no more visits. If I found out my husband didn't assume the same... I'd get my ducks in a row. Someone has to be an example to the kids. Being calm with someone who abused your family, and then getting your family right back together with them, is not a good example.
So I’ve read a few posts and it seems like it’s a form of cognitive decline.
Still, I don’t love the dynamic where OP’s mother was covering for this behavior.
Though I know it’s real rough dealing with this stuff as I have been in some sticky situations.
And he’s staying in your house? You are too patient.
No, they are staying at a hotel, thankfully. We have the room, but they insist on a hotel. I've never been so thankful they're not staying with us.
You dodged a bullet there.
Hell will freeze over before he admits he's wrong.
No more contact with your wife and kids. They deserve better than taking shit from him.
Insisting on staying at a hotel makes me think your mother is covering for his cognitive decline. I'll reinforce what others have said; get a doctor involved asap.
Has he ever acted like this before? If not, he may be starting a very slow mental decline where the filters stop working.
He's lost his temper before, but nothing to this degree, nothing that would ever make me think he's capable of this.
I'm more surprised that I kept my cool.
If my dad ever seriously called one of my kids a “little shit” or said the words “bitch of a wife” to me, it’d be the last god damned thing he ever said to me. We would be no contact so fast he’d be on Oprah’s next fuckin special. Without question.
I went no contact with my father for very similar reasons. Constantly talking about my wife behind our backs, being rude and misogynistic when we were around him. Came to a head when he called my daughter for her birthday (3 days late), and forgot to hang up the phone while leaving a voicemail.
Heard him tear into my wife to the people he was eating with. Called him later to tell him we heard everything and didn't want to speak with him again. That was June. It was a very quiet Thanksgiving and Christmas, and we were all the better for it.
May I ask what he said when you let him know that you had his words on recording?
When I have confronted him in the past, he has said things like "If you have a problem with the things I have to say, then you should get in line along with everyone else", in response to the hurtful things he has said while in his presence.
When I told him I heard him through the voicemail, and I didn't want to speak or see him again, he only said "Well, the only thing I can say is I'm sorry you heard that". Not that he was sorry he said it, only that we heard it. Haven't talked to him since.
As a person with a grandfather like this, I commend you. Standing up to men like that is incredibly difficult, especially when around family members who have just learned to simply tolerate it. Please be sure to give your wife some extra cuddles tonight, cause I also know it feels rotten on her end, too 🥺
So... he shouldnt be allowed to be around your wife or kid anymore. He got in her face and yelled at her in public. That's not okay for ANYONE to do. While I understand being calm for your family, this warranted a better response and strict, immediate boundaries.
He called your wife a bitch to your face and then ignored both of them the next time he saw them? I would have been livid if I was your wife and would have wanted to leave/not see them again for a LONG time. Your mother should not have been allowed to approach her with such a ridiculous request.
No contact with both your parents sounds like it would be the way to go especially if they both think he deserves an apology for starting an argument over absolutely nothing.
My dad did some shit like this, refused to apologize, telling me “he’s moved on” and “it’s in the past” and then we stopped speaking, he stopped seeing his grandkids, and a few years later, he died. I hope it was worth it for him to be right.
The scary part is that I can see this situation playing it exactly like this.
Sorry he pulled this on you, brother. It’s a terrible feeling when your parent chooses themselves, even worse when they are doing it for petty reasons.
Boomers especially males don't like being talk back whether their right or wrong. They were brought in world were children and women are treated as second class citizens. Must bow to men. If that doesn't work, they try to intimidate you. Cause they don't know better than violence. You must apologize to them. Children and women are always second-class citizens in their mind. It's totally bizarre mindset to anybody with a brain.
My wife and I cut off both sets of parents for way less than this.
That’s precisely what I’d do here. Your wife and kids will lose respect for you if you don’t.
Let me guess, watches fox news all day kind of guy?
No, he's not maga at all. He's always been left leaning, which is why this took me by surprise.
That's unusual.
This is a odd shot but you should try and have him checked for a urinary tract infection. I mention this because I have heard from friends who work in elder care that UTIs can cause sudden bouts of aggressive behavior, especially in older individuals.
That's not something I've thought about, and remember this being an issue with my grandma years ago before she passed (Mom's side, not my dad) . I'll look into this, thanks!
UTIs in senior citizens can lead to mental issues, including delirium. Definitely worth looking into.
Yep, happened to my mom. She ended up in ICU and then a regular hospital ward for a week after her UTI turned septic and she almost died. Her mental confusion she was experiencing was the symptom that made her realize something was not right.
is this sudden? has he treated anyone in your family that way before? if not, he might be going senile which would suck way more than just going no contact with a shitty parent.
I was looking to see if anyone suggested this, because if this is the first time something like this has happened, there might be a serious underlying physical reason for it. Although that would not explain Mom defending him.
Maybe mom knows or is suspicious and doesnt want to burden the family with the situation, although demanding an apology from his son's wife is on the odd side.
That could very well be what is going on. Mom and Dad have obviously been married for a long time and she might be trying to protect him?
Not odd at all. If the wife takes responsibility, then OP's mother doesn't have to face potential dementia and tough conversations about her husband ageing.
That's something I've been thinking about all day. He had open heart surgery a few years ago and since then his short term memory hasn't been great, but he was always docile and apologetic with his memory. This temper is nothing new, but to this degree, is.
If this is behavior that has recently developed, please talk to your mom about getting him evaluated for dementia. Anger issues are not rare for people battling dementia.
I am sending well wishes for you and your family. Whether it is something physically or mentally wrong or not, I hope everything works out well for you.
Sounds like my father. He's 76. He's always had a temper and yelled but it has gotten much worse the last few years. He mostly takes it out on my mom since she lives with him. But he'll have random outbursts like this too over seemingly innocuous stuff and he's been diagnosed as having dementia.
Look up vascular dementia.
I’m a person at fifty that had open heart surgery seven months ago. I was fuzzy as hell with names and long term memory for six weeks. It was nuts. I’m nearly eidetic with my memory. My sister is almost photographic memory.
And it was crazy at fifty where I couldnt remember Taylor Swift’s name. Taylor Swift, of all people. That’s an easy gimme.
So surgeries and UTIs, and Alzheimer’s are super real for wild interactions.
I’m so sorry this happened.
Sudden changes in behavior can be a sign of something deeper (and medical). Idk if it’s possible, but I’d encourage you to try to get him checked out.
Others have already stated this but if this behavior is more extreme than normal it might not be a bad idea to watch for signs of dementia
...and has early stage dementia... it's like poetry.
I realize this isn't going to be popular, but - cut him off. Immediately.
I had the same kind of asshole father and after dealing with it for years, bowing down, steering the conversation in a different direction, trying to please someone that was an asshole, I said fuck it - I'm done with your sorry ass.
I distinctly remember visiting his home with my very young son. He and his wife had just remodeled their kitchen and they were showing off what they had done when my son accidently spilled chocolate milk on the tile floor. That fucker flipped out and made my son cry. I made mention that is was a tile and the spill could be wiped up easily and he screams - The chocolate is going to stain the grout! We promptly got our coats on and left. That was the last time at his house.
Had no contact with his sorry ass for the remaining 10 years of his life. It was liberating. No more guilt trips. No more difficult interactions.
When I found out he died, I didn't go to his funeral. My stepmother who enabled his bullshit was just as bad and proclaims she is a Christian - yet badmouths everyone.
There's a quote I keep on my refrigerator that I see every day - "You are not obligated to associate with people who are making your life worse - family included."
Is this out of the blue or has he always been like this?
Sudden changes in behavior and mood and be a sign of neurological problems (tumors, dementia, stroke, etc).
If he's always been like that then he can fuck all the way off.
Oh, this is my mother. Last year (last time I was in contact with my sister), she called my sister’s 8 year old a “fucking asshole” at a restaurant over a dessert- one of many melt downs she’s had at the grands, and us (she called my sister the “c” word as we were on the way to my sister’s wedding venue, for example). Go LC now. I did almost a year ago, and my life has been so much better. We are only responsible for how we act and react, and we have no control over how the people who are SUPPOSED to love us act. I have NC with my siblings, and only correspond with my mother as absolutely necessary. These people don’t deserve to traumatize our children the way they did us. We’ve made the decision to raise our kids with love, and screw them for not seeing why that’s so much better.
Let me guess, he voted for trump?
They all have just become filled up with rage and hate by their mindmanipulation sources like foxnews.
Its crazy to see milions bevome so hateful.
They didn't become hateful. It's been there the entire time. They basically just reached the point where they think they've been given permission to do it in public and the lead poisoning has gotten so bad their inhibition is just shot.
Dementia strikes without regard to political party. My 93 year old leftist father spent Christmas losing his shit every time he was reminded to take his life-sustaining medication, finally accusing me and his aide of trying to poison him. Frustrating.
“I stayed very calm”
Bro, you may have achieved Nirvana. If my dad said this to me, he’s catching hands
You can’t have a man like that around your children mate.
"Hey dad if you are so superior, how come you can't take this punch?"
I would have said good, because he’s not welcome if this is how he treats my family. I’ve had to cut off contact with some close (but not emotionally close) relations, and it was a long time coming. I said my peace to them and there hasn’t been another conversation since and there won’t be. Cutting that drama and hate from my life were some of my best decisions.
Why tf aren’t you leaving with your wife and son?!? Why would you take them to a function where he will be the next day? Your mother is enabling her husband’s behavior and is therefore complicit. That was abuse, no other way to say it.
We did leave, and we didn't know they were coming to the family lunch today. My mom told me last night they were leaving today and weren't coming, so I thought it was safe.
And you're right, my mom is not only complicit, but it's enabling this further behavior.
Ain’t nobody above the implied threat of an ass whooping. That having been said, ask your mom if he’s been more irritable lately. Hopefully this isn’t the case, but these outbursts can come from the beginning stages of dementia
Truly he needs to be told off. The audacity is over the top.
Just your dad? No words about your mom taking his side and telling your wife she should apologize to your dad? It's good they aren't invited back, for the safety of your family, not your kids need to know that what she did and said is wrong, too.
“Hi mom, if you let him leave without apologizing to my wife and son, this trip will be the last time he ever sees his grandkids. Unless you are willing to travel without him, it will be the last time you see them too, so please consider that carefully.”
Sound sac good in theory, but those kind of people don’t care if they see them or not. My asshole father couldn’t care less
Bringing your wife and son around him again was disrespectful and unsafe.
They're your #1. If your Dad wants get in the way and your mom is fine with it, you immediately fall to protecting your wife and child.
You can tell everyone in your family why. Some will defend them. They're wrong. Some will believe you and they'll also ostracize your parents. That's what they deserve.
You should not have brought them back around your family at all, all consequences be damned. Your wife and child will be there for you through anything. They're your priority. Not your incredibly unkind parents.
I once caught my mother screaming at my brown immigrant husband about being a "foreigner" while I was taking a shower. I got out, heard her screaming, heard her words, got dressed, packed our stuff and left with wet hair. I didn't speak to her for two years
Never disrespect your wife and child.
You're fucking awesome. I had an ex husband who did not stand up to his mom (only child, but also a very very severe mamas boy) and it ruined our marriage.
"My soft woke kids wont talk to me because theyre weak and cant handle respect" -him, in 10 yrs.
The father is 78...
Only the good die young
I'd have punched my dad in the face if he ever spoke like that.
Superior to her? Because she's female or non white? What did he mean by that?
Your dad needs to be popped in the mouth.
Agreed, just not while a kid is watching, mostly for legal reasons lol
Onset of frontotemporal dementia, perhaps. Is he a Vietnam vet? It’s particularly quick on onset with them.
(Just lost a father in law to that. This month.) Vietnam vets get it bad due to the chemicals, and untreated ptsd.
Well, if it was out of character you need to talk to your mother about other signs of dementia and irritability. If he's always been a cunt, then fuck him and his last sad Christmases on earth.
Make sure to invite the mother only and flood her with pictures of the grandkids and of the family to take home and put on the fridge.
Boomer males especially hate being challenged. They grew up in world where children and women bow down to man. No matter what.
A lot of boomers are now learning about the fuck around/find out method.
i’m sorry, but why the hell did you meet that asshole? i would cut him off for good
I said in another response, but they said they were leaving today and weren't going to the luncheon, so I thought it was safe.
It sounds like this was surprising behavior from him, especially since you said your mom was distraught. I’d 100% get him checked for dementia.
He called your child a little shit? That would be enough for me! What a little shit!!! Of a human.
I disowned my own father 15 years ago over less. Disrespect towards my then girlfriend now wife is never acceptable.
If the aggression isn't normal, that can be a symptom of cognitive decline like alzheimers or dementia.
Not your problem though. After something like that, especially with the physical threat he displayed and your mom siding with him, I wouldn't feel comfortable having either around your family again if I was in your shoes. That's terrifying.
And I had an abusive father. I cut his entire side of his family from my life. He was one of 9 siblings, so that was a lot of family. But my gawd, the peace I had after was absolute blisssss.
Dementia/Alzheimer's caregiver here. The anesthesia meds administered for surgeries are known to drastically worsen the cognitive decline of those suffering from degenerative memory conditions. If your father was already in the early stages of dementia or a few steps away from its onset, this would track with some of what you've described, including the increased irrational reactivity and irritability. That said, he could also just be a general asshole who doesn't want to take accountability for his actions. Actually, both of these things could be true. If you have any dementia/Alzheimer's related questions, I'm happy to offer informed feedback if I can. I'm really sorry you and your family are dealing with this very upsetting situation.
Yeah so I usually dont agree with redditors when they encourage OP to do something rash. But this situation called for something rash. Obviously don’t fight an ole geezer but words like that get you left in the parking lot. And I would not be going to an event the next day where they will be. The sense of entitlement is infuriating. Their definition of “respect” is entirely fucked. They demand it but never give it. Unless your parents are planning to pay for the kids college or something like that I don’t see why not go no contact. Being in your life and around your family’s is a privilege they don’t seem to want. Hotel when you offered to host them idk tons of red flags here and then the Whole Foods incident. It’s almost 2026, we don’t need to entertain people who do not treat us the way we treat them.
Grandpa just bought a one way ticket to no contactsville
Fuck that guy.
I would have lost it. You are a better human than I am.
Ditto. I'd be facing assault charges if this happened to me.
Like I'm not trying to act tough, but that kind of abusive shit is extremely triggering for me for... Reasons.
Regardless, that's a one-way express trip to NC-ville.
Shame on you for not knocking him on his ass.
I would not have cared if my family saw me, I'd have gone nuclear. At least my family would know that I had their collective backs.
Sounds like the trash is taking itself out.
The old man needs to apologize to the wife and kid. Otherwise no contact with both grandparents. And even if he does apologize, I’d go low contact till I’m sure things are better.
This is the point I'd have gone No Contact with this uncivil, bullying asshole. "I hope you enjoyed your tantrum, Dad. It's the last one you'll have the opportunity to throw in front of me and my family."
If he has guns they need to be removed from the home. My husband and I have already discussed the possibility of dementia as gun owners.
What was the relationship like between your father and wife before his blowup? What is your mom saying to you?
If it is out of character, then it could be something medical. Dementia, stroke, parkinsons, that kind of thing. Best to investigate that soon.
Personally I give you a heck of a lot of credit for not punching your dad in the throat
I would too, having a record of elder abuse wouldn’t be a good look on me, even though the situation may have warranted it.
Agreed. not a good look. The highroad is definitely better
Definitely wouldn’t rule out a UTI or anything mentally degenerative…is your mom comfortable talking about things? Outbursts and personality changes are kind of the first signs of other things…just the natural progression. A family meeting with your sister might be helpful. Take care ❤️
Classic narcissist parent. Sorry man, dealing with them is hell.
Has he always been like this? Dementia is a real bitch and can turn the nicest people into grumpy old monsters.
Sudden outbursts of (undeserving) anger were the first signs of dementia for my grandma.
I would tell him he has anger issues and doesn't know how to communicate effectively.
I too love the joy of flipping a water bottle and making it land upright. This all sounds very upsetting ... And I always wonder what the function of this behavior is...but regardless it's definitely sounding like the kind of parents you eventually go NC with. They will scar your children (sounds like they already have actually). Sorry this happened and best of luck.
Why did you even let them in? They apologize or they GTFO. No lunch. No contact.
well, in order to visit, you have to be invited, first, and i don't see that ever happening, now… so have fun never seeing your son or grandkids again, asshole! you got your wish!
My adult children have very much limited their own exposure to my 86 year old mother, as she just can't help what comes out of her mouth. She focuses on physical attributes and appearance.
My wife is a spitfire, and although she has been hurt by things my mom said, usually is able to spar with her and hold her own.
Our mission in life is to not become them.
Are you kidding? You didn't explain exactly why you are going NC. And your Mom, an enabler for your Dad's piss poor behaviour, should be told the same thing.
You are a far better person than I am. If someone tried to intimidate my wife, they would soon be on the sidewalk looking up. I don't care who it is, I protect my wife at any cost. I would go no contact with him as the next time, he may get physical.
I believe this is what a self-righteous mentality. The father may be narcissistic too.
Good for you for putting your wife and kids above your mom and dad. You’re 100% in the right. Let your Dad die on this hill. Let him see what happens when his grandkids decide not to interact either him.
Sometimes a good ole 2 piece and a biscuit is what’s needed to correct the behavior of these sociopaths
My father in law did something similar to me, the wife. I made the grave mistake of telling his wife that she couldn't just say whatever she wanted and expect people not to get upset. He told me to "grow up," and when I stood up for myself and said "I'm not your child, neither of you should be talking to me this way," he stood up and got in my face. I said "are you going to hit me?" And he sat back down. The saddest part is my husband witnessed this and didn't say or do a single thing. I lost a lot of respect for all 3 of them that day.
Don't make your wife apologize dude.
You need to stand up for your family. You don’t get what you deserve you get what you tolerate
He should be apologizing to your wife. Being older doesn't give him authority over a grown woman. I am glad you are not inviting him over again.
I also wondered about dementia. If this behavior of his is not typical, I’d say he definitely needs a checkup.
I just lost my mom two weeks ago. She was diagnosed 15 years ago with Alzheimer’s. Most of the earliest symptoms were behavioral. She cursed me out when I bought her a nice digital camera (back before her diagnosis). She pitched a fit in a department store and nearly the police called. These were radically different behaviors from any we had ever witnessed.
Regardless, his behavior was abhorrent. I hope your children are old enough that they weren’t traumatized.
It is likely that the inability to control frustration will be the new norm for your father. I have had to experience many of these erratic outbursts with four aging relatives. They all turned out to be due to the beginnings of dementia. Sadly, a significant percentage of younger people who are shocked by these behaviors will experience the lack of control and rational thinking themselves unless we find a cure.
Not a boomer problem; it’s a personality disorder, it seems.
Dipshit of a grandfather AND grandmother should find it funny when they are ghosted 👻 by most of the family.
Your piece of shit dad needs literally ANYONE to take him down a peg. I wouldn't speak to anyone who treated my wife and child that way.
I was disappointed that you didn't knock him on his ass for calling your wife and son names. But I understand why you didn't. Anyway, cut him off permanently.
Is this the act of r/ReligiousFruitcake? That sounds like "the wife should submit to the husband" bullshit expectation.
You ain’t throw his ass out of your house, I mean sounds like he’s staying with you. Why are you tolerating your father’s behavior towards your wife and your kid? He would have to leave my home forthwith. What right does he have to call your son “a little shit” and your wife, “a bitch” If you don’t do something about this, it will affect your marriage. Trust me.
You intentionally saw them again??! That outburst would have been the last time we were ever in the same space if this was my family.
That sounds like abusive behavior. He expects your wife to bow to him and let him abuse his grandson because he's older.
Your mother honestly needs to be called out as well. It's not okay to think that a man needs an apology for being disrespectful and trying to intimidate his daughter in law.
I'm sorry this happened. Yet to be honest, I would get your family and leave every time that your parents arrive: and state why. " After Father's treatment of grandson and daughter in law, we cannot be near them. Thanks for inviting us '.
Inform others that they are in a position that your father might do that same thing to their children and wives.
I’m sorry, your father’s behavior was out of line, full stop. You handled the moment well, but now boundaries matter. If this isn’t addressed clearly, he’ll feel emboldened to repeat it.
Your kids already noticed that tells you everything. Standing firm now isn’t disrespectful; it’s protecting your family and modeling self-respect.
Sounds very Republican of him.