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What's even sadder is that this post appears to be bullshit. Apparently after he shot her,the kids panicked and ran out from their hiding spots and were shot.
To me that seems more like a symptom, not the cause. I think focusing on mental health will have a bigger impact than taking guns away. But that would mean this country actually has to do something about it instead of constantly arguing about it.
Edit: for those of you that participated normally because this is an opinion to create discussion, thank you. I appreciate the rational involvement. It has given me some thought about my current stance. For those of you that choose to hate instead of discuss, kick rocks. Have a nice day everyone!
You're right! Instead there are stabbings and acid attacks and the like. The UK banned knives instead of confronting the mental health epidemic. Always take away the things instead of make the people's lives and mental health better. I agree that less guns will make less shootings, but it won't fix the issue. People will simply get more creative and cause more mayhem in different ways. Instead of shootings, it'll be homemade pipe bombs or "the cleaning aisle special" chemical attacks. Every time we take away a means to commit violence, people get more creative to make violence anyway. Guns just make it easy. Blaming the gun is easy.
Total children's (and ya) deaths by knife in the UK (under 25, 2023+) - 32
total children's deaths by gun in the USA (under 17, 2023) - 2566.
Cope some more. You'll jump any hoop to defend that insanity.
If you guys put the same effort you put in defending your cowboy-wanna-be-wet-dreams-delusion in defending children they would be all safe and sound.
Of course we need gun control, I never said we didn't. Your interpretation of my response makes you think I'm a gun toting psycho fighting to keep guns, but you don't know shit. I personally advocate for gun control because I know they're their own unique problem, but that wasn't what my response was about. But you couldn't seem to comprehend that at all.
I said that people will just get more creative to commit violence without them. Take away the guns, sure, but the numbers won't change. The united states has a larger population than the UK, so the number will be higher. The reply was about mental health and how other countries without guns have mental health problems and dont have these issues. Of course they don't have school shootings, because they don't have guns, but they have other problems because the guns aren't the fucking cause, they're just a tool. A tool that makes it easy. Remove that tool, you make it more difficult, sure, but people will find a way. Acquiring illegal firearms, making illegal firearms, making chemical agents, pipes bombs, things any idiot can figure out with an internet connection or chemistry textbook. I've seen first hand the creativity of a human that wants to commit violence. It's fucking awful. The cause is poor mental health focus and horrible living conditions. There are more causes, but those are other issues altogether, and not the point of this. Very few countries actually give a shit about mental health and try to blame it on the tool rather than their own shitty policies and infrastructure. Too many shootings? Ban the guns. Too many stabbings? Ban the knives. You're just as bad as they are because your response was "hur dur gun worse" instead of using any semblance of literacy to understand the context of the response. My answer remains the same even if you're too stuck up your own ass to understand it. Take away the guns, but people will still commit mass murder one way or another, and it's oftentimes worse. I've seen it. Fuck you for lumping me in with the gun cult because you can't fucking read. Have a nice life.
We can go around in circles like this all day. But I guess the reason I think that is the same reason I think the War on Drugs was a mistake. Everything was made highly illegal (and a lot still are), yet a lot of people are still dying FROM certain drugs and dying FOR certain drugs. Portugal saw its OD and drug usage rates drop significantly after the country stopped incarcerating drug users and instead required them to attend information seminars or therapy. America made heavy drugs illegal, yet there is still an overabundance due to being illegally made or imported from nearby countries. That same sentence I think would be true if you change heavy drugs to firearms. Also, the way America has been going for the last 50 years (since Nixon) as soon as guns are removed from the countries citizens, then it becomes a slippery slope to an autocracy or dictatorship of sorts. The citizens wonāt have a way to protect themselves from an overreaching government because only private companies, like defense contractors or private security will be the ones with firearms and those companies are directly hired by and are protecting the people that took the firearms away in the first place.
So I guess I understand where all of these keyboard warriors are coming from but I think there are dangerous effects that could happen from a law like that.
But I guess fuck me for trying to express thoughts and have a logical conversation on Reddit.
America made heavy drugs illegal, yet there is still an overabundance due to being illegally made or imported from nearby countries. That same sentence I think would be true if you change heavy drugs to firearms.
contradicts this position
The citizens wonāt have a way to protect themselves
It cannot be true that guns will be reasonably available from other sources, and that Americans will simultaneously lack sufficient guns to defend their rights. To the degree that one of these is true, the other must be false.
Hmm you have a valid point with that one. Those statements do have a bit of contradiction. Iām still against the black and white of extreme gun control but I do feel like thereās a gray area. I think there is a lot of security around gun registration and ownership but itās done in the wrong way which makes it significantly easier than it should be to possess a firearm. Youāre not American if youāve never done anything illegal. Recently I was seeing farmers downloading illegal software to jailbreak their tractors to make self-maintenance easier instead of requiring the manufacturers to do any maintenance. I guess if thereās a necessity, people will find a way.
So long as gun control can improve safety, the need for safety will have to be balanced with the right to bear arms. I haven't always been at my current place in this debate, but I do think there's a middle ground where we can cut down on a lot of the public violence while also substantially preserving our rights.
Right now, politics truly frighten me, and I'm a bit more open to talking about guns as a means for fighting government oppression -- 10 years ago I argued that this was ridiculous, but now I at least admit it's plausible, though I'm not sure how practical. But I have school age kids, and every time I think about gun rights and proliferation, I have to wrestle with the fact that my daughters might die facedown in a pool of their own blood while learning fractions. And I have to ask myself: if they end up threatened with violence at school, will I break through the police lines and try to save them myself, to prevent a Uvalde-style atrocity as the police stand around and do nothing? Faced with that choice, without any tactical information or training, what would I do?
Having wrestled with that question, I can tell you that I don't know the answer, nor will I, until and unless that day comes. But there is another question I can answer today: what would I give up, to ensure that I'll never have to find out what I would do in that situation?
I would give up the right to keep a gun in my home, and to carry in public. The guns will still be there if needed for revolt, and people can check them out to train during peacetime and for their pastimes. Nobody needs a home armory. Probably some other stuff as well, but I think that would do a lot.
I agree. Things (politics, people, the news, kind of everything in a way) are truly frightening currently. I wish I was intelligent enough to create a justifiable solution that maintains the policies this nation was founded on while also preventing unnecessary violence. But Iām not, so here I am on Reddit having some fantastic discussions as well as getting a little hate mail.
You have 75% of your murders committed with guns and twice the murder per capita of the next peer country. Not, the average, the next most violent country.
In comparable surveys you donāt have more crimes, but more violent crimes, because of guns. You can try to change human nature, but what really sets you appart are the guns.
Thatās a heck of a blanket statement opinion. Access is a huge concern I agree. This is some info I hope you find interesting enough to look into that opinion.
The three most deadly shootings in America, (Virginia tech, Pulse nightclub, and the Vegas shooting) as well as the next few on the list of school shootings, every single one was going through some sort of mental health crisis (Valium for anxiety, doctor admittedly LIED on a psychological exam saying the guy was mentally fit to possess a firearm, medication and therapy for emotional disturbance, Prozac for antidepressants)
I donāt want this to be a blanket statement because not every incident is like this, but I think itās a larger concern than some people believe it is.
You guys have horrific shootings every few hours, other OECD counties go years between them. And when they happen elsewhere there are policy changes made to reduce the chance of them happening.
Iām just trying to understand. Your points make it seem like you think every single person in this world is inherently a mass murderer, but the reason most donāt is because they donāt have access to guns. But I donāt think you believe thatās true because that sounds crazy. Even if your arguments are pointing at that conclusion.
If there are only a few armed criminals, it is easier for the authorities to deal with them.
If the entire population is armed, however, it is difficult to identify the madman who could commit a massacre.
All the data collected in all countries around the world show that countries that ban weapons are also those with the lowest crime rates.
If thereās more armed individuals that stop the criminals ib the first place thereās no need to worry. But people always find a way to get passed bullshit anyway.
No, thank you. I don't want to have to walk around armed, living in fear that one day someone might shoot me and I have to be ready to return fire.
I much prefer my society with its ban on guns and where there are no shootings in schools.
Yeah something like gunfire in a school shouldn't even be a possibility. But when faced with such cruel and inhumane setup, it takes a lot of guts and level headedness to sacrifice yourself in order to save other innocent lives. This bravery is what needs to be appreciated. Ofc nobody is celebrating that a public shooting happened at a school.
There's an active shooter on a school campus right now. Brown University is on lockdown. Those young people deserved to go home for winter break and the police scanner reports multiple fatalities already.
Ya, I mean, it's not as if the entirety of the world doesn't have this issue, most at far higher rates then the West or anything. Maybe we should define it in a hyper specific circumstance to skew data, and aid in the Westerns moist to voice their opinion on topics they're ignorant to. Or, you could come here to Japan where you'll be stabbed to death in the subway, while women watch from their anti rape boxes they are required to stand in during public transit, adjacent to a child sex doll shops, with anatomically correct child dolls in the window, with signs stating äøå½äŗŗćØē¬ćÆå „ć£ć¦ćÆććć¾ćć (we do not provide service to ni99rs and Chinese dogs). Why not the Mainland where these mass incidents are a multiple per day occurrence, except the weapon is generally a knife or a vehicle, and rather then target schools, they target children waiting for the bus. Google "Revenge against society in China" and watch the thousands of videos of hundreds of children being ran over as they wait for school today.
This isn't exclusive to the West you bLiThErInG iDiOt" rather, that in the West to publicize our short comings, and a large facet of western culture is to be self depreciating. Most don't know Japan is the most xenephobic culture on the planet, that there was a mass stabbing at my station the other day, and that 9/10 women 14-48 will be sexually assaulted at some point in their life. We exclusively focus on the short comings for the West, given the America inferiority complex.
You have the collective knowledge of humanity at your fingertips, why not use it?
Also, this issue is exclusive to community's that do not allow firearm ownership. "The more you know" There has never been a mass shooting in a location that "allows guns."
Would you like to hear about my time in the military, and when I helped fish a dozen drowned women in children out of a well? Would you like to discuss life in 90% of Asia? Myanmar literally exists, and you have the audacity to pretend this is exclusively a western flaw?! I feel as if I'm living in an episode of the Twilight Zone.
This is why there has never been a mass shooting in an area that allows for possession. 100% of mass shootings have taken place on gun free zones. Have you ever wondered why these incidents don't take place in police stations?!
Ever wondered why mass shootings dont happen in places where nobody has access to a gun? Those same places also don't have ANY gun deaths by legal firearms. Or accidental shootings... Weird how reality works isn't it?
Indeed. The issue is eveyone here is either foreign or an idealogue, and subsequently refuse to educate themselves on the topic. These people endorse usurpacious legislation, and are incapable of discerning that by their logic you could say "Instead of banning guns, let's just ban all civil liberties?" I mean, firearm ownership is a literal constitutional right, akin to freedom of speech.
Americans hate the metric system but have been using 9mms in schools for years. You guys do need any, even half hearted, gun control. No other country has this issue as a regular occurrence.
So you've spent no meaningful amount of time in a foreign culture. Had you, this comment would not exist. There is nothing more Western then to be self depreciating.
I have been to 55 countries. Ide argue about half had a far better QOL compared to America. Americans egos make us think we are the best in the world. We arent
This is going to make me crash tf out... Even if you don't respond, read all of it. You should pay attention to why we are objectively the best.
Of course you have, because this is the interweb. I said "Meaningful amount of time" presupposing the random person I would be addressing in a reddit comment section, would be the person who's traveled to more counties then 99.99% of human beings that have ever existed. I must be clairvoyant, or your response is suspiciously similar to each person on reddit who's responded to this sentiment.
I'm a thirty something, polyglot, xpat, working in asset management for APAC. For the last twenty years I have lived and worked in over a dozen countries, with a minimum amount of twelve months stay in each. Unlike you, I don't count airport layovers, weekend trips to Sydney (which is ironic giving the discussion and the mass shooting that happened in Australia today) dinner in Athens, or a work seminar in Singapore as meaningful interaction with the culture.
This isn't off topic: Visiting 50 countries (allegedly) does not rebut this; I'm presupposing your response. Tourism is exposure, not immersion. Anyone who's spent any "meaningful time" would recognize this. Spending meaningful time inside a foreign society working, paying taxes, navigating bureaucracy, being subject to social norms, and bearing consequences makes this distinction obvious. In most of the world, the state is civilizational; MARKETS ARE SUBORDINATE TO CULTURE. Only someone formed entirely within the American cultural bubble mistakes its economic dynamism, for its ontological essence. So for all of your alleged globe trotting, you've not learned the first thing about culture. Hence the Meaningful amount of time.
When you say "MeRiCa jUsS cOrPoRaTiOn" highlights you lack a fundamental understanding of culture. Contrasting the West with here in Japan, we are post enlightenment, a low context, virtuous, warrior culture, that seeks conflict for truth. Our morals stem from deep seated virtues (hence the comments in here about firearm legislation by thousands of people that have no idea as to what they're speaking on) we implement Aristotelian logic, and are highly individualist. THIS IS UNIQUE TO WESTERN CULTURE! Here in Asia they are a pre enlightenment, high context, passive culture, that seeks comfort over truth. Harmony is the driving force behind the entirety of the culture. Morals are fluid, and stem from social contingents, rather then virtue (this is why Tokyo pre teen brothels are socially acceptable, but walking on the wrong side of the side walk is irredeemable). Their logic is antithetical to Aristotelian thought, and they are exclusively collectivist. The same can be said for Thailand, Singapore, China, all of South East Aisa, all more reliant on corporate institutions then the West!
āAmerica is just a corporationā isnāt an analysis, itās rhetorical reductionism meant to delegitimize our entire civilization. Corporations are ahistorical instruments, they have no moral tradition, no civic memory, no concept of duty, sacrifice, or citizenship. All which are central tenants to the culture. The West is a civilizational project shaped by Roman law, Christian moral philosophy, Enlightenment political theory, and centuries of institutional continuity. It's not a corporation, that's just edgy reddit speak.
Why is this so triggering to me, and why am I mansplaining to you like my Mainland wife? Because you say it as an attempt to strip the West of legitimacy by collapsing it into a profit motive, as though constitutionalism, individual rights, due process, and civil society are merely branding strategies. Culture defines markets! Culture defines cooperate institutions, and we are less influenced by said institutions then any other industrialized nation on the planet.
The irony is that only a culture with deep non economic foundations can afford to be accused of being ācorporateā in the first place. The rule of law, stable property rights, and voluntary association are not corporate inventions; corporations exist because those pre market structures already exist.
I'll respond to your second in a differnt response aidnd this is turning into a long crash out.
That "we just think weāre the bestā line pisses me off because it only comes from people who have never actually lived outside the West. Not visited. Not vacationed. Lived. It makes you sound very young and naive as well. This isn't naive patriotism, but rather lived experience.
I didnāt truly appreciate America until I left it. When you live somewhere that doesnāt protect individual dignity by default, where justice depends on status, conformity, or silence, you stop taking Western values for granted. You realize theyāre not ānormal.ā Theyāre rare given their combined population is in the billions.
I don't belive you've been to 50 countries, becasue non Western people know this! I get stopped constantly over here. Filipinos thanking Americans for liberation. Chinese families telling me their grandparents survived Nanjing, Thais with the Bataan Death March, and that Americans dying overseas is the only reason theyāre alive today. I get bows, free drinks, conversations and gratitude that I never asked for. This isn't due to American ego, or propaganda, it is sincere gratitude at what America has sacrificed for a culture that wasn't it's own.
The only place I see this level of self loathing is among Americans online. Itās peak irony: the most American thing in the world is to tear America down with self depreciating America bad sentiments. No other culture does this. Not Japan. Not China. Not the Middle East. Not Africa. They donāt sit around pretending their civilizations are accidents or businesses. They know who they are but for whatever reason Westerners confuse humility with self erasure. We are the only culture that actually seeks the erosion of our own culture.
Weāre not āthe bestā because weāre perfect. Weāre the best because we built systems that restrain power. Because we protect dissent. Because we allow people to openly hate the country without disappearing. Because we will send our sons and daughters to die for ideas and civil liberties: not bloodlines, not emperors, not ethnicity, but liberty.
The topic of gun violence perfectly displays this. We as a society knowingly trades security for freedom, whilst understanding something deep about human nature. Dismissing this as arrogance just tells me most in here have never lived without freedom long enough to understand its cost.
Name the culture that has done more to preserve individual liberty, correct its own failures, feed the world, fight tyranny abroad, and restrain its own power when it could rule by force.
We are the wealthiest civilization in human history and the only one powerful enough to enforce a global order without conquest. We have interconnected the entirety of humanity by policing the worldās oceans, suppressing piracy, guaranteeing free trade routes, and making modern globalization possible. Something no empire before us ever achieved, and we did it without demanding tribute. We brought global stability for the first time in human history. Our military budget exceeds the world's nations combined, and not because we seek domination, but because we underwrite stability for everyone else. The West COULD impose itself as the God kings of humanity. We donāt. That restraint, the conscious decision to limit our own power in favor of law, alliances, and sovereignty, is precisely what separates us from every empire that came before, and why we are irrefutably THE BEST!
Here in Tokyo my three sons; all under 12, need to be chaperoned as they walk home from school, lest they be spat on and called racial slurs. Women have to stand in anti rape boxes as they ride public transit. My wife has to hide her Mandarin accent, because it is very common to encounter business with signs stating äøå½äŗŗćØē¬ćÆå „ć£ć¦ćÆććć¾ćć (we do not serve ni99rs and Chinese dogs). We have child sex doll shops, and brothels that specialize in pre teen girls. You presumably don't know any of this and this and this is due to our desire to continuously improve, and publicize our short comings. The majority of the world hides theirs. You would prefer this to the West?
Would you like to hear about my experience in the middle east as a war fighter? About how we found a child walking on the side of the road, who had witnessed his family be brutally slaughtered, and thrown into a well, where he was then tied to a fence post and sexually assaulted, and left for dead? Would you like to hear about how we had to fish his dead brothers and sisters out of the water? How all of this was the result of his father working as a translator with the West? Would you prefer this to the West?
Nah they wouldn't understand because ma 2nd amendment rights. It's my right to own guns responsibly but I must support the right of anyone even with mental issues or criminal history to own a gun.
I'll never understand as to what facet of American culture endorses people to speak passionately about topics they are entirely ignorant to.
Please, enlighten me as to how Texas gives everyone guns? You do realize that the requirement for ownership mandated by the federal government don't you?! Meaning THE PROCESS IS THE SAME IN ALL OF AMERICA! There are outliers in certain jurisdictions that make it more complicated, not Texas is the average. It is not easier, or more complicate. It requires a 4470 like the rest of the god damn country!
Or they commit mass stabbings like here in Japan, or the multi per day incidents in China referred to as "Revenge against society" where literally thousands of children are ran over and murder as they wait for the bus each day. Google the topic.
Because it's comedically naive, and the sentiments exclusively held by children or the uncultured. I sewer to God of 99% of you spent any meaningful time in a foreign culture, none of these comments would exist.
Every nation has this problem; most far worse then America, with the only cavaet being A: in the West we publicize our short comings; the majority of nations do not. Case in point there was a mass stabbing at my station here in Japan last month, and this is a multiple a day occurrence on the Mainland known as "Revenge against society." B: it is very Western to be self depreciating. There is nothing more American then to shout from a metaphorical guided castle "America bad." All of this is compounded by the blissful ignorance of Westerners to passionately speak on topics they have literally zero intellect on. You are an adult, and passionately espousing grossly inaccurate sentiments. This is part of our culture.
I just want to clarify, are you an American? If so, would you advocate for the erosion of all civil liberties with your patronizing condescendence, or just the ones you're ignorant to?
We don't use the metric system because of established industry and British pirates. Whilst we were in the midst of converting, British pirates hijacked a vessel carrying the men, and the pertinent items used to facilitate the transition. Because they never showed up, we never transitioned. It has nothing to do with "hAtReD" Ffs.
For me this kind of posts reminds me how someone who didnt care about shootings got sooo many people to care about them, instead of this woman and many others who gave their lives to protecr others
I donāt think itās supposed to necessarily be a feel good story. I agree wholeheartedly otherwise but I think this is a bitter reminder of the system and shedding light on someone who saved lives.
Sort of like when a statue of that dog got put up after saving kids from some larger dogs. Obviously itās an issue the larger dogs were off a leash and aggressive enough to kill a small dog. However, you can shed light on the heroic actions of said dog
I also think it's gross that they didn't include the name of the school (Sandy Hook). I think so it can be circulated as a timeless feel-good story and not mention the students who did die that day.
This. I can assure you an American Congressman would not have done this same sacrifice. The American government has failed her and it couldnāt care less. If the risk of one of their lives was at stake, best believe there would have been top parameters in place to ensure their every day safety.
When bad things happen, you can still acknowledge the incredible things people do to minimize it's impact. Like shootings are bad, I get it, but this lady's heroism saved these kids from being worst
Gun control isn't gonna do shit to keep somebody that wants to kill from just stealing a legally-owned gun. What we need is proper mental health services to find and treat people that are potentially threats to themselves and others
First, countries with strict gun control donāt have this problem, second, the same politicians that block gun control always block mental health measures too.
On 19 December 2016, a truck was deliberately driven into the Christmas market next to the Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church at Breitscheidplatz in Berlin, leaving 12 people dead and 56 others injured.Ā
Yes exactly. These idiots don't understand that trucks were famously invented, meticulously designed and fine tuned with the express purpose of murdering something in the quickest, and most efficient and effortless way possible.
Ah yes, because everyone knows that the reason something is invented matters as to how it's used.
Something that's made to help someone is impossible to use for harm. Dem the rules.
Knives made for cooking are famously non-deadly, for example. Anyone trying to kill with a knife has to buy an army knife. The knife just knows what it was invented for, and will fail to cut human flesh unless it was designed to do so.Ā
To say we don't have any gun violence would be pretty dumb. We have our own incidents like this one in Hanau or this one in Halle. But those are very few compared to the USA.
Yeah gun control would probably prevent this. It tends to keep people who shouldn't have guns from having them. Just ask anyone in a country with guns that doesn't have these shootings happen like every week.
Except gun control is working well literally everywhere else. America is just too stupid to protect children's lives. Granted Anerica also put the worlds biggest pedophile in the white house so par for the course.
You know there's this video circulating a while ago of how school kids in some third world country, facing a ethnic civil war and how they have plans for what happens if their village is raided during school hours.Ā
When asked about a school shooting Presidential candidate Donald Trump said "We have to get over it. We have to move forward".Ā Meanwhile, Ā he eulogized Charlie Kirk as a āmartyrā and decried his killing as a threat to the entire country.
So to sum up: Your kids are free game, get over it; Right-wing nutjobs who try to brainwash those kids are sacred.
Well Trump rapes kids so of course he is ok with them getting killed while at school. Ps he hates education also so he probably blames the kids for being there in the first place.
I watched a very long documentary about Sandy Hook, last night. It was a bad choice. I woke up like every 30 minutes, having nightmares about guns. & it's not even a fraction of the terror those little kids felt or those caring, protective teachers felt. I remember Obama shedding a tear & really felt like there could be change, like there HAD to be, right?! Nope. Let's create an entire market around bulletproofing areas in classrooms & backpacks. RIP Victoria. I am so sorry our country lacks your courage & compassion.
As a non american, I think any politician that attempts to do anything against guns is simply killing his own carrer right?
The US should have done something decades ago but now there are so many guns that, even if they start copying other countries' successful measures, it is too late for them because there are way too many guns in circulation already.
This should make everyone so angry, livid, jumping up and down with fury, both because this happened in the first place and BECAUSE MURDER IS BEING PRESENTED AS A FEEL GOOD STORY.
There is no good reason why she is dead, why her family lost their daughter, sister, cousin, niece, why her friends and coworkers lost their friend or why those first graders lost their teacher and have to deal with the guilt and trauma the rest of their lives.
THIS IS NOT A FEEL GOOD STORY. STOP USING IT TO MAKE YOURSELF FEEL BETTER BECAUSE GUNS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY.
I dont want to diminish the level of sacrifice this poor woman displayed butany of her students were shot and killed regardless. It's dark and sad but also it's true
Charlie Kirk said this had to happen, and when it happened to him he got a day of remembrance. The US government has done more to honor a man that directly inspired 2 mass shooters than it has done to protect it's children. Republicans do this with Pride while Democrats let it happen with wringing hands and rolling eyes.
Wait youāre saying the pro-life isnāt pro-life after all?! Who wouldāve seen that coming??! Funny how kids donāt matter to them the moment theyāre born. If a kid gets aborted they act like itās a travesty but if a kid gets shot they chalk it up to a necessary sacrifice.
Maybe democrats just need to start using guns in abortions and then republicans will turn a blind eye to it.
Wish it was. Iāve never needed a gun in my life. I had one time I nearly got jumped by 2 guys but my martial arts training helped me avoid an altercation. The most valuable lesson I learned in martial arts is how frail the human body is and how lethal a trained individual can be so violence should always be a last resort and not a first resort.
I think if gun culture was different and the emphasis wasnāt on blowing away bad guys there wouldnāt be so many shootings. Guns have become a tool to remove anyone you deem unworthy of life. There are other first world countries that have a lot of guns but donāt have the mass shooting pandemic that we have. I would rather not have any guns among the civilian population besides ones used by hunters than allowing anyone with a pulse to be able to obtain a weapon that could be used for mass murder
Doesnāt sound real. Kids would have screamed and cried. The most likely story is she didnāt say anything, he just walked in shot and didnāt have time to hear anyone because he moved on too quickly after shooting just what he saw and moved on but this makes for a good story.
I'm talking about not opening our communities to violent odealogues and reoffenders.Ā People getting stabbed by someone who's been jailed and released 19 times prior, mass importing people who, as part of their most deeply held beliefs, advocate for the eradication of other ethnic and religious people.
Oh, because it's part of the same failed ideology as the rest of the liberal bullshit people are still desperately trying to ignore when this shit happens over and over
Just trying to say as many buzzwords in one sentence as you can? It's not complicated. It's too easy to get guns in America and politicians will not vote against because they're paid off.
You're not wrong about the "mass". 3+ killed or 4+ maimed is usually the quantifier. The US does have a gun homicide rate 26 times that of peer nations though. It's an issue we need to address.
I'm not from US, so pardon me for confusing why someone decided to do school shooting? Wouldn't it be more heroic if the energy/shooting is done to criminal instead of innocent students/teacher?
The shooters aren't trying to be heroes. The gun advocates who don't give a flying fuck how many people are murdered aren't heroes.
Charlie Kirk was against gun control. Said the occasional [ie weekly] death of kids was worth his right to own guns. Then his brain was blown out by a gun at a school. His worshippers blame it on everything except the gun culture.
Strange to think that there are people who haven't heard of Charlie Kirk at this point, and whatever you just learned isn't even the tip of the iceberg. Their Vice President blew off 9/11 memorials to endow a political podcaster with the highest honors usually only bestowed on the likes of firefighters and selfless heroes who put themselves in harm's way to save innocent lives. It's a really great example of what's wrong with America. Fortunately for me, I'm not American.
If you can give me a list of 50 school stabbing instances this year in countries where guns are strictly controlled, I'll give you 50 shooting instances this year in America.
We can thren fairly compare injuries, deaths and arrests. Fair?
I always wondered if she had a door to the outside. We practice hiding in the classroom during drills, but we also have the prerogative to escape out our classroom door if need be.
If you liked this, and you like the second amendment, go take your gun somewhere an ICE terrorist is intimidating American citizense. That's the whole point of it.
I think she died happy knowing that Charlie Kirk approves her death and will wait for her in heaven. She knows that her death was the necessary sacrifice so that divorced rednecks can feel like real men. And of course to protect the kids...I guess. /s
Ah I see. Just remember to use at least 5 layers of tinfoil on those roofs to ensure the reptile aliens can't use their 5G chemtrails to steal your customers' souls for the vampire illuminati.
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We should not need heroes like her. God bless her.
Even sadder, this is probably a plan she had decided on long ago if this were to ever happen in her school
What's even sadder is that this post appears to be bullshit. Apparently after he shot her,the kids panicked and ran out from their hiding spots and were shot.
yeah, 6 of them.
it was also the auditorium, not gym..
OP is peobably a karma farming bot
Guess we need less villains, not fewer heroes right
I think he meant we shouldn't be in situations where heroes of that specific caliber are needed amigo... But yeah, less villains is certainly a target
You need fewer guns.
To me that seems more like a symptom, not the cause. I think focusing on mental health will have a bigger impact than taking guns away. But that would mean this country actually has to do something about it instead of constantly arguing about it.
Edit: for those of you that participated normally because this is an opinion to create discussion, thank you. I appreciate the rational involvement. It has given me some thought about my current stance. For those of you that choose to hate instead of discuss, kick rocks. Have a nice day everyone!
The rest of the world also has issues with mental problems but they don't have school shootings like that.
Want to change your answer?
You're right! Instead there are stabbings and acid attacks and the like. The UK banned knives instead of confronting the mental health epidemic. Always take away the things instead of make the people's lives and mental health better. I agree that less guns will make less shootings, but it won't fix the issue. People will simply get more creative and cause more mayhem in different ways. Instead of shootings, it'll be homemade pipe bombs or "the cleaning aisle special" chemical attacks. Every time we take away a means to commit violence, people get more creative to make violence anyway. Guns just make it easy. Blaming the gun is easy.
You wanna compare numbers? Let's compare numbers:
Cope some more. You'll jump any hoop to defend that insanity. If you guys put the same effort you put in defending your cowboy-wanna-be-wet-dreams-delusion in defending children they would be all safe and sound.
Of course we need gun control, I never said we didn't. Your interpretation of my response makes you think I'm a gun toting psycho fighting to keep guns, but you don't know shit. I personally advocate for gun control because I know they're their own unique problem, but that wasn't what my response was about. But you couldn't seem to comprehend that at all.
I said that people will just get more creative to commit violence without them. Take away the guns, sure, but the numbers won't change. The united states has a larger population than the UK, so the number will be higher. The reply was about mental health and how other countries without guns have mental health problems and dont have these issues. Of course they don't have school shootings, because they don't have guns, but they have other problems because the guns aren't the fucking cause, they're just a tool. A tool that makes it easy. Remove that tool, you make it more difficult, sure, but people will find a way. Acquiring illegal firearms, making illegal firearms, making chemical agents, pipes bombs, things any idiot can figure out with an internet connection or chemistry textbook. I've seen first hand the creativity of a human that wants to commit violence. It's fucking awful. The cause is poor mental health focus and horrible living conditions. There are more causes, but those are other issues altogether, and not the point of this. Very few countries actually give a shit about mental health and try to blame it on the tool rather than their own shitty policies and infrastructure. Too many shootings? Ban the guns. Too many stabbings? Ban the knives. You're just as bad as they are because your response was "hur dur gun worse" instead of using any semblance of literacy to understand the context of the response. My answer remains the same even if you're too stuck up your own ass to understand it. Take away the guns, but people will still commit mass murder one way or another, and it's oftentimes worse. I've seen it. Fuck you for lumping me in with the gun cult because you can't fucking read. Have a nice life.
We can go around in circles like this all day. But I guess the reason I think that is the same reason I think the War on Drugs was a mistake. Everything was made highly illegal (and a lot still are), yet a lot of people are still dying FROM certain drugs and dying FOR certain drugs. Portugal saw its OD and drug usage rates drop significantly after the country stopped incarcerating drug users and instead required them to attend information seminars or therapy. America made heavy drugs illegal, yet there is still an overabundance due to being illegally made or imported from nearby countries. That same sentence I think would be true if you change heavy drugs to firearms. Also, the way America has been going for the last 50 years (since Nixon) as soon as guns are removed from the countries citizens, then it becomes a slippery slope to an autocracy or dictatorship of sorts. The citizens wonāt have a way to protect themselves from an overreaching government because only private companies, like defense contractors or private security will be the ones with firearms and those companies are directly hired by and are protecting the people that took the firearms away in the first place.
So I guess I understand where all of these keyboard warriors are coming from but I think there are dangerous effects that could happen from a law like that.
But I guess fuck me for trying to express thoughts and have a logical conversation on Reddit.
Interesting points. But this position
contradicts this position
It cannot be true that guns will be reasonably available from other sources, and that Americans will simultaneously lack sufficient guns to defend their rights. To the degree that one of these is true, the other must be false.
Hmm you have a valid point with that one. Those statements do have a bit of contradiction. Iām still against the black and white of extreme gun control but I do feel like thereās a gray area. I think there is a lot of security around gun registration and ownership but itās done in the wrong way which makes it significantly easier than it should be to possess a firearm. Youāre not American if youāve never done anything illegal. Recently I was seeing farmers downloading illegal software to jailbreak their tractors to make self-maintenance easier instead of requiring the manufacturers to do any maintenance. I guess if thereās a necessity, people will find a way.
So long as gun control can improve safety, the need for safety will have to be balanced with the right to bear arms. I haven't always been at my current place in this debate, but I do think there's a middle ground where we can cut down on a lot of the public violence while also substantially preserving our rights.
Right now, politics truly frighten me, and I'm a bit more open to talking about guns as a means for fighting government oppression -- 10 years ago I argued that this was ridiculous, but now I at least admit it's plausible, though I'm not sure how practical. But I have school age kids, and every time I think about gun rights and proliferation, I have to wrestle with the fact that my daughters might die facedown in a pool of their own blood while learning fractions. And I have to ask myself: if they end up threatened with violence at school, will I break through the police lines and try to save them myself, to prevent a Uvalde-style atrocity as the police stand around and do nothing? Faced with that choice, without any tactical information or training, what would I do?
Having wrestled with that question, I can tell you that I don't know the answer, nor will I, until and unless that day comes. But there is another question I can answer today: what would I give up, to ensure that I'll never have to find out what I would do in that situation?
I would give up the right to keep a gun in my home, and to carry in public. The guns will still be there if needed for revolt, and people can check them out to train during peacetime and for their pastimes. Nobody needs a home armory. Probably some other stuff as well, but I think that would do a lot.
I agree. Things (politics, people, the news, kind of everything in a way) are truly frightening currently. I wish I was intelligent enough to create a justifiable solution that maintains the policies this nation was founded on while also preventing unnecessary violence. But Iām not, so here I am on Reddit having some fantastic discussions as well as getting a little hate mail.
š Sure buddy... The rest of the world is wrong and you're the "enlightened".
"Thoughts and prayers", amirite?
You seem to be the only one going in circle throwing red herrings hereā¦
Guns are a symptom of school shootings? Fuck are you on?
I think they misspoke
Ok so how exactly would you focus on mental heath to prevent this?
Thatās pretty much the cause.
You have 75% of your murders committed with guns and twice the murder per capita of the next peer country. Not, the average, the next most violent country.
In comparable surveys you donāt have more crimes, but more violent crimes, because of guns. You can try to change human nature, but what really sets you appart are the guns.
The issue of shootings is 100% due to too many guns and too much access to them.
Thatās a heck of a blanket statement opinion. Access is a huge concern I agree. This is some info I hope you find interesting enough to look into that opinion.
The three most deadly shootings in America, (Virginia tech, Pulse nightclub, and the Vegas shooting) as well as the next few on the list of school shootings, every single one was going through some sort of mental health crisis (Valium for anxiety, doctor admittedly LIED on a psychological exam saying the guy was mentally fit to possess a firearm, medication and therapy for emotional disturbance, Prozac for antidepressants)
I donāt want this to be a blanket statement because not every incident is like this, but I think itās a larger concern than some people believe it is.
It is really not.
You guys have horrific shootings every few hours, other OECD counties go years between them. And when they happen elsewhere there are policy changes made to reduce the chance of them happening.
Iām just trying to understand. Your points make it seem like you think every single person in this world is inherently a mass murderer, but the reason most donāt is because they donāt have access to guns. But I donāt think you believe thatās true because that sounds crazy. Even if your arguments are pointing at that conclusion.
No
Less gun can help to have less villains
Or, have more villains be the only ones with guns.
If there are only a few armed criminals, it is easier for the authorities to deal with them. If the entire population is armed, however, it is difficult to identify the madman who could commit a massacre.
All the data collected in all countries around the world show that countries that ban weapons are also those with the lowest crime rates.
If thereās more armed individuals that stop the criminals ib the first place thereās no need to worry. But people always find a way to get passed bullshit anyway.
No, thank you. I don't want to have to walk around armed, living in fear that one day someone might shoot me and I have to be ready to return fire. I much prefer my society with its ban on guns and where there are no shootings in schools.
Victoria Soto.
Can't believe this was even needed. Thank you.
r/orphancrushingmachine
I generally dislike these type of posts. This is very preventable through proper gun control and shouldn't be spinned as a feel good story.
Yeah something like gunfire in a school shouldn't even be a possibility. But when faced with such cruel and inhumane setup, it takes a lot of guts and level headedness to sacrifice yourself in order to save other innocent lives. This bravery is what needs to be appreciated. Ofc nobody is celebrating that a public shooting happened at a school.
There's an active shooter on a school campus right now. Brown University is on lockdown. Those young people deserved to go home for winter break and the police scanner reports multiple fatalities already.
America, fuck yeah. Only there ā¦ blithering idiots allow guns
Ya, I mean, it's not as if the entirety of the world doesn't have this issue, most at far higher rates then the West or anything. Maybe we should define it in a hyper specific circumstance to skew data, and aid in the Westerns moist to voice their opinion on topics they're ignorant to. Or, you could come here to Japan where you'll be stabbed to death in the subway, while women watch from their anti rape boxes they are required to stand in during public transit, adjacent to a child sex doll shops, with anatomically correct child dolls in the window, with signs stating äøå½äŗŗćØē¬ćÆå „ć£ć¦ćÆććć¾ćć (we do not provide service to ni99rs and Chinese dogs). Why not the Mainland where these mass incidents are a multiple per day occurrence, except the weapon is generally a knife or a vehicle, and rather then target schools, they target children waiting for the bus. Google "Revenge against society in China" and watch the thousands of videos of hundreds of children being ran over as they wait for school today.
This isn't exclusive to the West you bLiThErInG iDiOt" rather, that in the West to publicize our short comings, and a large facet of western culture is to be self depreciating. Most don't know Japan is the most xenephobic culture on the planet, that there was a mass stabbing at my station the other day, and that 9/10 women 14-48 will be sexually assaulted at some point in their life. We exclusively focus on the short comings for the West, given the America inferiority complex.
You have the collective knowledge of humanity at your fingertips, why not use it?
Also, this issue is exclusive to community's that do not allow firearm ownership. "The more you know" There has never been a mass shooting in a location that "allows guns."
Would you like to hear about my time in the military, and when I helped fish a dozen drowned women in children out of a well? Would you like to discuss life in 90% of Asia? Myanmar literally exists, and you have the audacity to pretend this is exclusively a western flaw?! I feel as if I'm living in an episode of the Twilight Zone.
Yeah, people donāt seem to understand the Texas way is better. If everyone had a gun, there wouldnāt be the issue.
That's why nobody has ever been shot in Texas /s
The irony..
This is why there has never been a mass shooting in an area that allows for possession. 100% of mass shootings have taken place on gun free zones. Have you ever wondered why these incidents don't take place in police stations?!
Ever wondered why mass shootings dont happen in places where nobody has access to a gun? Those same places also don't have ANY gun deaths by legal firearms. Or accidental shootings... Weird how reality works isn't it?
I don't trust my own countries to carry guns, and I definitely do not trust the inbreed texan to do it as well.
Indeed. The issue is eveyone here is either foreign or an idealogue, and subsequently refuse to educate themselves on the topic. These people endorse usurpacious legislation, and are incapable of discerning that by their logic you could say "Instead of banning guns, let's just ban all civil liberties?" I mean, firearm ownership is a literal constitutional right, akin to freedom of speech.
Exactomundo
Americans hate the metric system but have been using 9mms in schools for years. You guys do need any, even half hearted, gun control. No other country has this issue as a regular occurrence.
America is not a country it is a corporation and unfortunately a shitty one at that.
How so?
All about the benjamins!
So you've spent no meaningful amount of time in a foreign culture. Had you, this comment would not exist. There is nothing more Western then to be self depreciating.
I have been to 55 countries. Ide argue about half had a far better QOL compared to America. Americans egos make us think we are the best in the world. We arent
This is going to make me crash tf out... Even if you don't respond, read all of it. You should pay attention to why we are objectively the best.
Of course you have, because this is the interweb. I said "Meaningful amount of time" presupposing the random person I would be addressing in a reddit comment section, would be the person who's traveled to more counties then 99.99% of human beings that have ever existed. I must be clairvoyant, or your response is suspiciously similar to each person on reddit who's responded to this sentiment.
I'm a thirty something, polyglot, xpat, working in asset management for APAC. For the last twenty years I have lived and worked in over a dozen countries, with a minimum amount of twelve months stay in each. Unlike you, I don't count airport layovers, weekend trips to Sydney (which is ironic giving the discussion and the mass shooting that happened in Australia today) dinner in Athens, or a work seminar in Singapore as meaningful interaction with the culture.
This isn't off topic: Visiting 50 countries (allegedly) does not rebut this; I'm presupposing your response. Tourism is exposure, not immersion. Anyone who's spent any "meaningful time" would recognize this. Spending meaningful time inside a foreign society working, paying taxes, navigating bureaucracy, being subject to social norms, and bearing consequences makes this distinction obvious. In most of the world, the state is civilizational; MARKETS ARE SUBORDINATE TO CULTURE. Only someone formed entirely within the American cultural bubble mistakes its economic dynamism, for its ontological essence. So for all of your alleged globe trotting, you've not learned the first thing about culture. Hence the Meaningful amount of time.
When you say "MeRiCa jUsS cOrPoRaTiOn" highlights you lack a fundamental understanding of culture. Contrasting the West with here in Japan, we are post enlightenment, a low context, virtuous, warrior culture, that seeks conflict for truth. Our morals stem from deep seated virtues (hence the comments in here about firearm legislation by thousands of people that have no idea as to what they're speaking on) we implement Aristotelian logic, and are highly individualist. THIS IS UNIQUE TO WESTERN CULTURE! Here in Asia they are a pre enlightenment, high context, passive culture, that seeks comfort over truth. Harmony is the driving force behind the entirety of the culture. Morals are fluid, and stem from social contingents, rather then virtue (this is why Tokyo pre teen brothels are socially acceptable, but walking on the wrong side of the side walk is irredeemable). Their logic is antithetical to Aristotelian thought, and they are exclusively collectivist. The same can be said for Thailand, Singapore, China, all of South East Aisa, all more reliant on corporate institutions then the West!
āAmerica is just a corporationā isnāt an analysis, itās rhetorical reductionism meant to delegitimize our entire civilization. Corporations are ahistorical instruments, they have no moral tradition, no civic memory, no concept of duty, sacrifice, or citizenship. All which are central tenants to the culture. The West is a civilizational project shaped by Roman law, Christian moral philosophy, Enlightenment political theory, and centuries of institutional continuity. It's not a corporation, that's just edgy reddit speak.
Why is this so triggering to me, and why am I mansplaining to you like my Mainland wife? Because you say it as an attempt to strip the West of legitimacy by collapsing it into a profit motive, as though constitutionalism, individual rights, due process, and civil society are merely branding strategies. Culture defines markets! Culture defines cooperate institutions, and we are less influenced by said institutions then any other industrialized nation on the planet.
The irony is that only a culture with deep non economic foundations can afford to be accused of being ācorporateā in the first place. The rule of law, stable property rights, and voluntary association are not corporate inventions; corporations exist because those pre market structures already exist.
I'll respond to your second in a differnt response aidnd this is turning into a long crash out.
That "we just think weāre the bestā line pisses me off because it only comes from people who have never actually lived outside the West. Not visited. Not vacationed. Lived. It makes you sound very young and naive as well. This isn't naive patriotism, but rather lived experience.
I didnāt truly appreciate America until I left it. When you live somewhere that doesnāt protect individual dignity by default, where justice depends on status, conformity, or silence, you stop taking Western values for granted. You realize theyāre not ānormal.ā Theyāre rare given their combined population is in the billions.
I don't belive you've been to 50 countries, becasue non Western people know this! I get stopped constantly over here. Filipinos thanking Americans for liberation. Chinese families telling me their grandparents survived Nanjing, Thais with the Bataan Death March, and that Americans dying overseas is the only reason theyāre alive today. I get bows, free drinks, conversations and gratitude that I never asked for. This isn't due to American ego, or propaganda, it is sincere gratitude at what America has sacrificed for a culture that wasn't it's own.
The only place I see this level of self loathing is among Americans online. Itās peak irony: the most American thing in the world is to tear America down with self depreciating America bad sentiments. No other culture does this. Not Japan. Not China. Not the Middle East. Not Africa. They donāt sit around pretending their civilizations are accidents or businesses. They know who they are but for whatever reason Westerners confuse humility with self erasure. We are the only culture that actually seeks the erosion of our own culture.
Weāre not āthe bestā because weāre perfect. Weāre the best because we built systems that restrain power. Because we protect dissent. Because we allow people to openly hate the country without disappearing. Because we will send our sons and daughters to die for ideas and civil liberties: not bloodlines, not emperors, not ethnicity, but liberty.
The topic of gun violence perfectly displays this. We as a society knowingly trades security for freedom, whilst understanding something deep about human nature. Dismissing this as arrogance just tells me most in here have never lived without freedom long enough to understand its cost.
Name the culture that has done more to preserve individual liberty, correct its own failures, feed the world, fight tyranny abroad, and restrain its own power when it could rule by force.
We are the wealthiest civilization in human history and the only one powerful enough to enforce a global order without conquest. We have interconnected the entirety of humanity by policing the worldās oceans, suppressing piracy, guaranteeing free trade routes, and making modern globalization possible. Something no empire before us ever achieved, and we did it without demanding tribute. We brought global stability for the first time in human history. Our military budget exceeds the world's nations combined, and not because we seek domination, but because we underwrite stability for everyone else. The West COULD impose itself as the God kings of humanity. We donāt. That restraint, the conscious decision to limit our own power in favor of law, alliances, and sovereignty, is precisely what separates us from every empire that came before, and why we are irrefutably THE BEST!
Here in Tokyo my three sons; all under 12, need to be chaperoned as they walk home from school, lest they be spat on and called racial slurs. Women have to stand in anti rape boxes as they ride public transit. My wife has to hide her Mandarin accent, because it is very common to encounter business with signs stating äøå½äŗŗćØē¬ćÆå „ć£ć¦ćÆććć¾ćć (we do not serve ni99rs and Chinese dogs). We have child sex doll shops, and brothels that specialize in pre teen girls. You presumably don't know any of this and this and this is due to our desire to continuously improve, and publicize our short comings. The majority of the world hides theirs. You would prefer this to the West?
Would you like to hear about my experience in the middle east as a war fighter? About how we found a child walking on the side of the road, who had witnessed his family be brutally slaughtered, and thrown into a well, where he was then tied to a fence post and sexually assaulted, and left for dead? Would you like to hear about how we had to fish his dead brothers and sisters out of the water? How all of this was the result of his father working as a translator with the West? Would you prefer this to the West?
Let me guess TLDR?
This is a lie.
Youāre welcome to come over and tell people, but youāll be fallen on deaf ears. Atleast youād try.
Nah they wouldn't understand because ma 2nd amendment rights. It's my right to own guns responsibly but I must support the right of anyone even with mental issues or criminal history to own a gun.
You talking about yourself right? Because you are the one who keeps bringing up the idiotic "texas way" of giving everyone guns...
I'll never understand as to what facet of American culture endorses people to speak passionately about topics they are entirely ignorant to.
Please, enlighten me as to how Texas gives everyone guns? You do realize that the requirement for ownership mandated by the federal government don't you?! Meaning THE PROCESS IS THE SAME IN ALL OF AMERICA! There are outliers in certain jurisdictions that make it more complicated, not Texas is the average. It is not easier, or more complicate. It requires a 4470 like the rest of the god damn country!
My brother in christ, learn how to read... He is the one who said that in several coments that, not me.
Left. Because until you ātake the guns awayā people, itās not going to change. People will find ways. We always do.
Yeah. People will start commiting mass murder in school with pencils cuz they're John wick.
Or they commit mass stabbings like here in Japan, or the multi per day incidents in China referred to as "Revenge against society" where literally thousands of children are ran over and murder as they wait for the bus each day. Google the topic.
Because it's comedically naive, and the sentiments exclusively held by children or the uncultured. I sewer to God of 99% of you spent any meaningful time in a foreign culture, none of these comments would exist.
Peak Dunning Kruger.
Every nation has this problem; most far worse then America, with the only cavaet being A: in the West we publicize our short comings; the majority of nations do not. Case in point there was a mass stabbing at my station here in Japan last month, and this is a multiple a day occurrence on the Mainland known as "Revenge against society." B: it is very Western to be self depreciating. There is nothing more American then to shout from a metaphorical guided castle "America bad." All of this is compounded by the blissful ignorance of Westerners to passionately speak on topics they have literally zero intellect on. You are an adult, and passionately espousing grossly inaccurate sentiments. This is part of our culture.
I just want to clarify, are you an American? If so, would you advocate for the erosion of all civil liberties with your patronizing condescendence, or just the ones you're ignorant to?
We don't use the metric system because of established industry and British pirates. Whilst we were in the midst of converting, British pirates hijacked a vessel carrying the men, and the pertinent items used to facilitate the transition. Because they never showed up, we never transitioned. It has nothing to do with "hAtReD" Ffs.
For me this kind of posts reminds me how someone who didnt care about shootings got sooo many people to care about them, instead of this woman and many others who gave their lives to protecr others
I donāt think itās supposed to necessarily be a feel good story. I agree wholeheartedly otherwise but I think this is a bitter reminder of the system and shedding light on someone who saved lives.
Sort of like when a statue of that dog got put up after saving kids from some larger dogs. Obviously itās an issue the larger dogs were off a leash and aggressive enough to kill a small dog. However, you can shed light on the heroic actions of said dog
I also think it's gross that they didn't include the name of the school (Sandy Hook). I think so it can be circulated as a timeless feel-good story and not mention the students who did die that day.
This. I can assure you an American Congressman would not have done this same sacrifice. The American government has failed her and it couldnāt care less. If the risk of one of their lives was at stake, best believe there would have been top parameters in place to ensure their every day safety.
When bad things happen, you can still acknowledge the incredible things people do to minimize it's impact. Like shootings are bad, I get it, but this lady's heroism saved these kids from being worst
Gun control isn't gonna do shit to keep somebody that wants to kill from just stealing a legally-owned gun. What we need is proper mental health services to find and treat people that are potentially threats to themselves and others
maybe more gun control AND proper mental health services
First, countries with strict gun control donāt have this problem, second, the same politicians that block gun control always block mental health measures too.
China has mass stabbings all the time. Europe has people being run over en masse by vehicles.
Guns make the problem worse, but definitely are not the cause.Ā
Even if you banned knives, guns, and vehicles, some sicko would just spray acid at people.Ā
No where near the numbers of deaths as the US has to guns.
Australia just had a more deadly mass shooting this morning, and they banned guns. š¤·
So how many gun death per capita is that?
Can confirm, here in Germany we have strict gun control kaws and still there are daily mass shootings here.
Oh wait, no we don't!
Yep, nobody dies in Germany from any attacks.
Oh, wait.Ā
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_truck_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_GermanyĀ
Trucks are a necessity,guns aren't.
Yes exactly. These idiots don't understand that trucks were famously invented, meticulously designed and fine tuned with the express purpose of murdering something in the quickest, and most efficient and effortless way possible.
Ah yes, because everyone knows that the reason something is invented matters as to how it's used.
Something that's made to help someone is impossible to use for harm. Dem the rules.
Knives made for cooking are famously non-deadly, for example. Anyone trying to kill with a knife has to buy an army knife. The knife just knows what it was invented for, and will fail to cut human flesh unless it was designed to do so.Ā
.....omg. I legitimately think you need psychiatric help.
To say we don't have any gun violence would be pretty dumb. We have our own incidents like this one in Hanau or this one in Halle. But those are very few compared to the USA.
Yeah gun control would probably prevent this. It tends to keep people who shouldn't have guns from having them. Just ask anyone in a country with guns that doesn't have these shootings happen like every week.
Why not both?
š¤¦š»āāļø
Except gun control is working well literally everywhere else. America is just too stupid to protect children's lives. Granted Anerica also put the worlds biggest pedophile in the white house so par for the course.
Is mental illness only in America?
This is the wrong community. It's not about common sense here, it's about emotion.
Insane that people donāt get this point of view
Strict gun control works great in a lot of countries. Basically everywhere where strict gun control is the law.
Insane that only Americans have that point of viewā¦
Oh God hush.. It is evident you have no idea as to what you're speaking on.
Though I do agree, it is simple. Armed security is a very simple, very efficient solution.
"No way to prevent this" says only nation where this regularly happens
America, the only first-world country on earth so unsafe for children you need armed guards at schools
You know there's this video circulating a while ago of how school kids in some third world country, facing a ethnic civil war and how they have plans for what happens if their village is raided during school hours.Ā
I often think of the US when I see that.
This country is wrecked. Nothing like this should ever happen.
When asked about a school shooting Presidential candidate Donald Trump said "We have to get over it. We have to move forward".Ā Meanwhile, Ā he eulogized Charlie Kirk as a āmartyrā and decried his killing as a threat to the entire country.
So to sum up: Your kids are free game, get over it; Right-wing nutjobs who try to brainwash those kids are sacred.
Well Trump rapes kids so of course he is ok with them getting killed while at school. Ps he hates education also so he probably blames the kids for being there in the first place.
I watched a very long documentary about Sandy Hook, last night. It was a bad choice. I woke up like every 30 minutes, having nightmares about guns. & it's not even a fraction of the terror those little kids felt or those caring, protective teachers felt. I remember Obama shedding a tear & really felt like there could be change, like there HAD to be, right?! Nope. Let's create an entire market around bulletproofing areas in classrooms & backpacks. RIP Victoria. I am so sorry our country lacks your courage & compassion.
As a non american, I think any politician that attempts to do anything against guns is simply killing his own carrer right?
The US should have done something decades ago but now there are so many guns that, even if they start copying other countries' successful measures, it is too late for them because there are way too many guns in circulation already.
Another karmabot
Kinda sucks for everyone in the gym, though :(
This is way funnier than it has any right to be
Take my upvote and get out
I don't think they were joking
This should make everyone so angry, livid, jumping up and down with fury, both because this happened in the first place and BECAUSE MURDER IS BEING PRESENTED AS A FEEL GOOD STORY.
There is no good reason why she is dead, why her family lost their daughter, sister, cousin, niece, why her friends and coworkers lost their friend or why those first graders lost their teacher and have to deal with the guilt and trauma the rest of their lives.
THIS IS NOT A FEEL GOOD STORY. STOP USING IT TO MAKE YOURSELF FEEL BETTER BECAUSE GUNS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY.
FUCK GUNS.
I dont want to diminish the level of sacrifice this poor woman displayed butany of her students were shot and killed regardless. It's dark and sad but also it's true
Yea the caption is sadly just false. He did not move on, the kids panicked after hearing gunfire and ran from hiding.
This makes my heart hurt so badly.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
True hero
And yet we're talking about Charlie Kirk like he did something heroic...
Heartwarming: teacher shot dead to protect her students in the only country where this regularly happens š
She deserves to have action from the leaders of this abysmal country against things happening like this.
MAGA be like: worth it so I can maybe be able to shoot someone one day.
Charlie Kirk said this had to happen, and when it happened to him he got a day of remembrance. The US government has done more to honor a man that directly inspired 2 mass shooters than it has done to protect it's children. Republicans do this with Pride while Democrats let it happen with wringing hands and rolling eyes.
Wait youāre saying the pro-life isnāt pro-life after all?! Who wouldāve seen that coming??! Funny how kids donāt matter to them the moment theyāre born. If a kid gets aborted they act like itās a travesty but if a kid gets shot they chalk it up to a necessary sacrifice.
Maybe democrats just need to start using guns in abortions and then republicans will turn a blind eye to it.
I thought this was in a gun free zone?
Wish it was. Iāve never needed a gun in my life. I had one time I nearly got jumped by 2 guys but my martial arts training helped me avoid an altercation. The most valuable lesson I learned in martial arts is how frail the human body is and how lethal a trained individual can be so violence should always be a last resort and not a first resort.
I think if gun culture was different and the emphasis wasnāt on blowing away bad guys there wouldnāt be so many shootings. Guns have become a tool to remove anyone you deem unworthy of life. There are other first world countries that have a lot of guns but donāt have the mass shooting pandemic that we have. I would rather not have any guns among the civilian population besides ones used by hunters than allowing anyone with a pulse to be able to obtain a weapon that could be used for mass murder
I'm amazed that the most powerful and rich country in the history of humanity allows the systematic killing of childrens in schools.
š«”š«”š«”šŗšŗšŗ
Superheroes wear capes, Victoria wore courage and heart
Its sad we have to ask, which shooting because there were so many them smh.
Heartbreaking if there is a heaven she is there.
She's dead, I'm sure she won't care now about getting famous.
What in the Facebook
I am not amazed. This is friggin sad
She was a true hero of the people.
LEGEND! Rip šŖ¦
Braver than any maga gun nut.
Doesnāt sound real. Kids would have screamed and cried. The most likely story is she didnāt say anything, he just walked in shot and didnāt have time to hear anyone because he moved on too quickly after shooting just what he saw and moved on but this makes for a good story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Leigh_Soto
Celebrate her? Nah the President would rather free criminals instead
Yet her death doesn't mean anything. Sandy Hook was the real turning point of America. Those kids died for America's love of shall not infringe.
The school was a gun free zone.
And yet the shooting happened anyway. How about some gun control that ACTUALLY WORKS
Hanging after three strikes for violent offender laws?
What the fuck are you on about.
I'm talking about not opening our communities to violent odealogues and reoffenders.Ā People getting stabbed by someone who's been jailed and released 19 times prior, mass importing people who, as part of their most deeply held beliefs, advocate for the eradication of other ethnic and religious people.
How is that relevant to gun control?
Oh, because it's part of the same failed ideology as the rest of the liberal bullshit people are still desperately trying to ignore when this shit happens over and over
Just trying to say as many buzzwords in one sentence as you can? It's not complicated. It's too easy to get guns in America and politicians will not vote against because they're paid off.
We should ban them, just like in Australia.Ā Oh wait.
America, right? May she rest in peace.
Please don't offend anyone in your country, we wouldn't want to see you serving hard time.
You don't have any more free speech than the innumerable countries that don't have child massacres on the weekly.
Who is committing so much violent crime against young people?
What?
The USA has a mass shooting basically daily. I cant believe that sometimes.
Brown University today actually
Sometimes you canāt believe it. Maybe because it is āt true?
Here you go. Have a day!
Thank you, but those arenāt mass school shootings. That is gun violence at school. Luckily almost all the incident are 0 people killed/injured.
You're not wrong about the "mass". 3+ killed or 4+ maimed is usually the quantifier. The US does have a gun homicide rate 26 times that of peer nations though. It's an issue we need to address.
Yes of course. I cannot agree with you more. I just wanted to point out that shooting up schools is not something that happens daily.
Very much is true. Open your fkn eyes and ears when facts present themselves
F
Gun Control Yesterday.
This was in a gun controlled zone.
And they work so well.
The cost of human life is a small price to pay to preserve my gunman hero fantasy. /s
She should be remembered as a hero but also a victim of the unnecessary shootings that wouldnt happen if guns weren't so easily available
I'm not from US, so pardon me for confusing why someone decided to do school shooting? Wouldn't it be more heroic if the energy/shooting is done to criminal instead of innocent students/teacher?
The shooters aren't trying to be heroes. The gun advocates who don't give a flying fuck how many people are murdered aren't heroes.
Charlie Kirk was against gun control. Said the occasional [ie weekly] death of kids was worth his right to own guns. Then his brain was blown out by a gun at a school. His worshippers blame it on everything except the gun culture.
just read about Charlie Kirk. Wow, your country will do anything to make safer place but gun control.
And to think Charlie got awarded by president...
Strange to think that there are people who haven't heard of Charlie Kirk at this point, and whatever you just learned isn't even the tip of the iceberg. Their Vice President blew off 9/11 memorials to endow a political podcaster with the highest honors usually only bestowed on the likes of firefighters and selfless heroes who put themselves in harm's way to save innocent lives. It's a really great example of what's wrong with America. Fortunately for me, I'm not American.
[deleted]
Do we have crazies who go around school killing students outside US?
Bullies, I read them all the time, but killer spree in school? I don't think I've read about them outside US. Probably me who know nothing tho...
If you can give me a list of 50 school stabbing instances this year in countries where guns are strictly controlled, I'll give you 50 shooting instances this year in America.
We can thren fairly compare injuries, deaths and arrests. Fair?
She didn't actually save the lives of all her students...
Five were killed running from their hiding spots when she was gunned down...
Victoria Leigh Soto - Wikipedia https://share.google/5mEFGB5PWpKznbZ5y
I always wondered if she had a door to the outside. We practice hiding in the classroom during drills, but we also have the prerogative to escape out our classroom door if need be.
Oh wow
That's horrific
I know school shootings are normalized and common in the US...but this is really brave and amazing and really horrific too
USA USA USA y'all still feel proud? Only country in the world where this shit happens on the regular. Fix your system.
No flag at half mast across the nation like for that maggot CK?
If you liked this, and you like the second amendment, go take your gun somewhere an ICE terrorist is intimidating American citizense. That's the whole point of it.
How do they know what she told him?
The kids in the room
I think she died happy knowing that Charlie Kirk approves her death and will wait for her in heaven. She knows that her death was the necessary sacrifice so that divorced rednecks can feel like real men. And of course to protect the kids...I guess. /s
Smells like a Reddit bot.
Where/when did this happen?
Statically several times a week in the USA.
Her name is Victoria Soto. Part of the story is true, except the shooter didn't leave
So.
You don't have an answer.
Because you're a bot.
14 December 2012, Sandy Hook Elementary School, Newtown, Connecticut, United States of America.
Use your fucking brain.
So now we are referencing CIA attacks on American Citizens?
Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting
Even Alex Jones isn't this retarded.
More proof you're just a bot.
If you are sentient perhaps wonder why so much is hidden from you?
Ah I see. Just remember to use at least 5 layers of tinfoil on those roofs to ensure the reptile aliens can't use their 5G chemtrails to steal your customers' souls for the vampire illuminati.
You need to alternate the layers also.
Funny you left that part out...
Orphancrushingmachine
American shit. Belongs in r/OrphanCrushingMachine ;P
She shouldāve never been put in this situation in the first place. Shame on those who care more about gun rights than children.
Why can a person just walk into the school without being escorted in.
and you deserve karma